469: How Erin Collins Went from 25,000 to 250,000 Instagram Followers While Self-Publishing a Cookbook

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Hey there. This is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team and you are listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast. This week on the podcast, Bjork is interviewing Erin Collins from the blog Meaningful Eats. In this interview, they chat more about how Erin prioritizes her work during seasons of limited time, including how she balances parenthood and blogging, and how she uses those kind of timing constrictions to be more intentional with her time. She also shares more about how she has grown her Instagram following from 25,000 followers to over 250,000 followers, including some series that she's done on Instagram and how making the shift to quality over quantity helped her. Aaron also self published a cookbook last year, and she saw almost $100,000 in revenue in the first nine months of selling that cookbook. So she explains more how she went about marketing that cookbook. The details behind writing, publishing, printing, shipping, the cookbook and everything you might need to know if you're interested in pursuing that path as well. It's really fun to hear more about Erin's story. We know you're going to love this episode. Just a reminder, if you enjoy the episode, we really appreciate it if you would share the episode on social media or with your newsletter followings, or leave a review on Apple or Spotify wherever you listen to podcast episodes. Without further ado, I'll let Bjork take it away.

Aaron, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, we're going to be talking about. There's a lot of things that we can cover today because you have a lot of exciting things that you've been doing. We're going to be talking about growing your Instagram in a year from 25,000 to 250,000. Something that I know a lot of people would hear about and be like, that sounds like something I want to do, right? Like 10x your Instagram following. We're also going to be talking about the success you've had self publishing a cookbook, the additional revenue that's created for your business. The thing that I'm interested in and maybe the thing to lead off with, selfishly, I'm always interested in hearing from people who are parents and parents who are working and building a successful business of which you've done that. But the additional thing that's interesting with your story, it's different than ours. We're, you know, Lindsay and I are parents now, but when we started, we weren't parents. When you started your site, you were already kind of in the throes of parenting. You had, you know, you have four kids now, but had at least one kid at that point. Tell us.

Yep.

Tell us about what that season was like. Because it's a hard thing to start a business and to build a business. It's a hard thing to parent and to raise children in the world, but it's especially hard to do both of those things at the same time.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's something that's like, you know, every phase feels different, but it's like been something that's been there the whole time that I've been blogging. So I started my food blog back in 2012 when I was diagnosed with celiac disease, which is actually triggered by my pregnancy with my oldest. So he was 1 years old when I was diagnosed with that. And I just started the blog for fun. Just I think that a lot of people started blogs for fun Back then, to talk about gluten free, what I was making, what I was cooking. I've always really been interested in food. I studied food science, undergraduate and nutrition, master's degree. And then I just have always really like to cook. So I was like, I have to gluten free now and I'm going to blog about it. And it was very much like a job, a jobby, as I like to say, like a job hobby for the first, I'd say four years doing it. And I say 2016 was kind of a turning point for me because that's when my, my second son was born in 2015. So I had two little boys and I was like, this is too much work to do. Like, just as a hobby. I either need to like stop doing this or I need to like, treat this like a business and have this be like, you know what I'm doing for a job. And so my husband was really the one who was like, you know, I think that you really actually find a lot of joy doing it, so you should. And I was grateful because I feel like he encouraged, kind of like saw what I couldn't see that like, I think this is something you really like doing. And so like, that's when I invested in a nicer camera. And back then, hands and hands videos were like very on trend. And so I kind of learned about videography. And that's 2016 was like the clear beginning of like, okay, I am treating this like a job and doing this alongside, like, you know, having a young growing family. And so, like, you know, over the years that's looked a little bit different for each chapter. But I feel like I've always, when I've been working on my blog, I've always. I don't know if this is like a healthy mindset. I don't know if I recommend this to people, but I've kind of always felt this pressure of like, I am choosing. And this is true for, I think a lot of entrepreneurs. Like, I'm choosing to trade my time with my kids to work on this right now.

Totally. Yeah. It's very relatable. Yeah.

And it's like, whereas a 9 to 5 job, you're like, oh, I'm being paid to be here. Like, I have to be here anyway. Whereas, like, it kind of you have.

The choice in a way that's different. Yeah.

Yeah. So like, wanting to be really intentional, like about the times that I am working, like, I am working is kind of how I've always been. Just over the last last decade with it. And it's looked different, like through different seasons. I'd say.

Yeah, it's interesting. When you do have that mindset, suddenly there is a value placed on your time. And for a lot of people it could be you have kids. For other people it might be you have a hobby that you really want to prioritize, or maybe you don't have kids and you have a parent who's sick. And like all of these are considerations that we have that kind of put this time pressure on. The one that's very relatable for me is like kids, right? So like especially when your kids are younger, you kind of depending on how your algorithm has been optimized on Instagram, you might get stream of content around, like these years being fleeting, as if we need reminders of this.

But so stressful.

Yeah, but you just get inundated with this. But the reality is, it's true, like these are fleeting years. And obviously there's a wide spectrum of like how people feel like they are best in terms of like, hey, what does it look like to be at home as much as possible with your kids? Or for some people it's like, I actually need to have kind of this 9 to 5 ish routine. But the point that I hear you saying is like, you knew that it's not like, you know, a regular job where you're getting paid to show up. You're kind of deciding. And if you're going to work on the extreme end, let's say you work a 12 hour day and you don't really get to see your kids. That's not because somebody was saying you have to do this, that's because you decided to do it. And so suddenly you look at your time a little bit different. And my guess is from that you prioritize differently or even figure out how to be more creative in terms of how you find time to work on things. So what did that look like for you? Like, what did you prioritize that allowed you to get to this point where you have this successful business without feeling like you sacrificed, you know, the growing up years with your kids?

Yeah, yeah, that. That's a great question. I. I feel like it's always kind of looking to what, like, what is actually moving the needle. And one thing I like an analogy I think of often is like the Great British Baking show. They're like, you know, they have like four hours to make this like amazing cake that's like their showstopper or whatever. And like when those four hours are done, it's done, their showstopper cake is done and they fit it in and whatever it is is what it's done. And so I kind of feel like that's how it is with me with blogging projects where it's like, okay, I have five hours to work today and these are the most important things to get done. And so this is the time that I've given myself to do that. And I actually, actually feel, I used to feel like, oh, wow, I'm actually really unwilling to work over a certain number of hours because I have always wanted to be there. Like, you know, I'm, I'm choosing to have this job and I'm lucky to have this job. And so I'm going to make this time count when I'm doing it. But I actually feel like it's an advantage sometimes to have time constrictions on things because I've even found now is like my kids have gotten a little older. My youngest is, My oldest is 13. And then we have a nine year old, a six year old and a four year old. So we're still very busy by all means, but my, and my 4 year old's the only one who's not in full day school. But I, I have, I find myself, I have more time because he goes to like, you know, a farm preschool like Monday through Thursday. And, and, and I'm like, oh, it's funny because I have actually more time now, but I feel like I'm getting the same amount of work done that I have when I've had less time in the past.

Totally, Totally. Or similarly, maybe there's a season, like I think Lindsay and I can both relate to this where we had more time and then you have less time. You're kind of restricted in that time and you still find time to get in 80% of what you need to get done. And it's almost like let's say you have. This isn't the exact analogy for it or exact kind of numbers, but like, let's say you'd normally have eight hours in a day and you could get a hundred percent of what you need to get done. Let's say that was halved and you only have four hours. You might be able to get like 80% of the most important things that you need to get done done. And similarly, if you get that time back, maybe you can then get like a hundred percent of what you want to get done. But it's not that like most critical additional work. But what that requires is for you to have A good understanding of what is important and what is critical. What have you found to be the most important things to be working on when you do have seasons of limited time?

Yeah, that's. And it's like, I feel like there's seasons of blogging where it's been different things at different times. So maybe I'll speak to like right now, like, what are the things I'm prioritizing when I have time right now? And it's like, I think that I've always had the idea, like when I go into a workday, I'm like, okay, I need to get that reel up this blog post updated and like this done. And then, But I do, I do drop the ball with other things over the years. Like I have like answering blog comments on my thing. I just hired somebody to help with that a year ago. And I'm like, I should have helped hired someone to help with that like far sooner. Because that's something where I kind of feel like that's like work with a lowercase W is like answering blog comments, like answering tons of emails. Whereas, like work with a capital W is like publishing the real, sharing the content, updating the post. And so for me it's always like the content first is what matters. And over the years, there's just things that I full on did not do, like web stories. I was like, I don't like these and I'm not going to do them just because I don't have time to do those too.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, I usually go into my, my week slash day knowing like, I want to. I try to share two reels a week on Instagram. I try to update three blog posts. Like there's some weeks where I'm shooting reels or like, you know, I've been working on like these specific tasks for the cookbook, but it's like usually on Sunday night, my husband and I will sit down and have like a family planning meeting. And then I'll also like have like a work planning meeting. I'll be like, these are the top tasks that have to be done this week. And just kind of like knowing that so that when I have that chunk of time to work, I can just hop right in.

Yeah, that's great. It's. I, I think of the analogy of drilling and I think sometimes what we do as business owners, creators, whatever, whatever you want to kind of label it is like we have figured out something that works. Like in your case, you talk about Instagram reels I heard you talking about. And like we've had success drilling in that area. And sometimes what, at least for me, what can happen is I can see somebody else going, doing something else, like web stories in your example. And you can be like, oh, I'm gonna, like, pull the drill up and I'm gonna, like, go over there and see if I can drill here and maybe get oil. But I think for a lot of us, especially if you have limited resources, in this case being time, like, you should just keep drilling where you're actually getting oil as opposed to being like, oh, web stories. Like, I'm gonna use some of my limited resources and time to, like, go over there and experiment with that thing. It's not that you should never do it, but if you're in a season where you only have so much time, which most of us are, like, to just continue to do the thing that is working.

Yeah.

If you see a reason to, like, go and drill in another area because somebody's proven it or you're seeing traction, do it. But like, to hold off on things that would maybe be considered experimental or new. If you're in a season where you're restricted on your time, but you can always, you know, like, with your comments you talked about, have somebody else come in to help with that. I think that's the other angle with it. And it sounds like you've kind of made some decisions around saying, hey, this is important. It's not important enough for me to do it, but it is important enough for it to get done as long as somebody else is doing it. Do you have other examples of the types of, like, lowercase W work that's happening with the business?

Yeah, yeah. I. I have a virtual assistant who, like, yeah. And I. It's always like, I'm trying to always examine that in my life, like, what are the things that I need to be doing? Or, like, that I want to be doing, too? We're sure. What are the things that don't matter necessarily, if. If I'm the one doing them? And I think that as entrepreneurs, a lot of us feel. Relate to that. Like, what are the things? And I am definitely guilty of feeling like I need to be doing all of the things. And it's like, I've realized that over the years. Like, no, I really don't. Like, I. Two years ago, I hired a photographer to help take photos for my blog because I feel like that was. I went to a tastemaker conference and heard a Emily Perrin. What's her name? I think she's been on the podcast before. She talked about like the zone of genius and how you have your zone of genius, your zone of competence, your zone of incompetence, and how, like, even though something is in your zone of competence and you can do it, should you be doing that? And that was a big like, aha moment for me because I'm like, photography is not my zone of genius. It's my zone of competence. And so hiring someone where that is their zone of genius, like, gave me back like 10 to 15 hours a week in my. A week, every week. And between, like the grocery shopping, the photographing, the editing, the photos. So that for me was like a big one. Same with a lot of the virtual assistant type tasks. I have someone who helps me with Instagram where I share the reel and then she takes that same video, I put it uploaded to Dropbox that she takes that reel, shares it to Tick Tock. Because I'm still Tick Tock is still feels scary to me as like a millennial woman. She handles it there. And then she said she does it to pinterest and to YouTube shorts and. And she'll like, make some Instagram stories too. So like some of those tasks that are kind of repetitive and yeah, like answering, answering blog comments, like, it's important to me for my readers to feel acknowledged and for things to be helpful too, like getting responses to comments. But yeah, you can definitely, you know, find people to fill some of those roles.

And it feels like the two part equation with that is, you know, for all of us, there'll be a season where or for most of us, like, we might not have the resources from a financial perspective to do that. And so the question is, at the, in that stage, do you just not do it or is it important enough that you do it and kind of like grind? Because it's maybe not the thing that you love doing. Even though you can do it to the point where you might have then resources in from a financial perspective to like bring somebody in to do it. But at that point it switches over to then become like the ability to let go of a thing. Like, and you're kind of changing and evolving your skill set. Whereas before the skill set was like, grind and get it done. You're evolving into a new skill set which is like, define what it is and delegate and constantly be getting towards what you call the zone of genius. Can you talk more about even just like, what is that for you? And the podcast with Emily was a great one. People could go back and listen to that. But like, what. And what is that for You. And then what does it feel like when you are working within that just to like inspire people who maybe don't feel like they're in their zone of genius.

Yeah. And it's, it's. I, I love that it can be so different for everyone. And I just like, I love like talking to people about like, what is the thing that lights them up that they enjoy doing. Because it's just funny how it's like so different for so many people. Like some people, photography, that is what their thing is. And, or some people really love like, you know, being a business manager and managing people and creating systems that way. For me, I really, really love the recipe development. Like that will always be like what brings my heart and soul back into blogging and what keeps me like enjoying it, wanting to do it. Like, I get really excited when I think about like creating a gluten free cream puff recipe with like dairy free vanilla pudding. Like that makes me feel excited. And so I will always want to do my own recipe development. And, and then lately I like, over the past five years, I'd say I have come to really enjoy the business development part of it, to try to think strategically about like, you know. Yeah. Which people do I hire to put in what places in my business and what are the things that I want to be doing. So if I was listing three things, recipe development, business development, and then randomly, I really do like making reels. Like I, I like making short form videos. I think they're fun and so I enjoy doing that. That makes me, that rejuvenates me creatively because there was actually a period where I'd outsource the photography. I had a writer, I was doing the recipe development, but I kind of feel like I was like at the computer all day. And so when I added the Instagram reels back into it, I actually was like, I feel like I'm creating again in a different way that I was kind of missing because I'd outsourced so much of that creative part. So yeah, those are the things that I'd say.

There's this book that I read a few years ago, designing your life. It's I think Stanford professors who had this class and then they wrote a book on it. I think they also have one called designing your work life. But one of the things that I think about as an analogy or kind of like as a visual is they talked about documenting your day and then it was like a little gas meter, empty to full. And like how full does this make you feel versus like how Empty. And you would kind of almost like audit your day. And one of the things that. That I've tried to do is like, expand that even just beyond work, but just like, personal as well. And there's a lot of things in my personal life that are kind of that, like lowercase W that made sense to have somebody, like, if I view it all as, like, resources, which is time and that being limited to think about. Okay. There are these, like, recurring things in my life that have to get done that are really important. And if I, like, collectively added all that up, it might be like 10, 15, 20 hours a week of just these, like, things that have to happen both within personal life and work life. That when you can from a financial perspective, either from taking money that you've saved up and like, kind of viewing it as investment into your business, or taking money from your business and then putting it back into the business, upgrading not only your business by bringing somebody in, but also it feels like probably upgrading your life in that the work that you're doing is more enjoyable. Have you felt that as you've gone through the process of strategically partnering with and working with people on your team?

Yes. Yeah, I. Yeah. And it's like, I think it's like, you know, if there's any, like, new bloggers listening to this, I know it can feel overwhelming, like, oh, these bloggers that have been around for 10 years have all these resources to outsource all these things. But I. I started really small. Like, I started in 2017. It was actually like our babysitter. I was like, would you like to help me with, like, social media? And she's like, sure. And so she's actually been with me ever since 2017, and her roles changed a little bit, like, within it, but she still works part time for me. Then I added on a writer, and then I added on a photographer, and then I added on another person who helps with email answering blog comments. And so, yeah, it's like, as I've. I feel like there was a period where it was like all me and then just giving away, like, little pieces of it at a time. But I like your idea about too, with making sure that you look at your personal life as well. And I feel like that's something that my husband and I have been doing more intentionally like the last year or so because our. Our kids are getting a little older. They're really involved in sports. Like, my kids are swim team swimmers. And so, like, like, you know, that's a big part of our life. We're Always driving to swim practice. Like, I'm the stroke and turn judge for the team, like that.

I was gonna ask, where you're swimmer, is that, like, part of where it comes from? Okay.

Yeah.

Lindsay was a swimmer, too. Like, I. Oh, nice. Like, that was my introduction to swimming, was, like, going to swim meets and cheering around.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I love swimming. Yeah, it's like. And it's. Yeah, like, we. We want to have time, like, I don't know. And it's like, yeah, we love to have that time driving our kids in the car because we get to talk to them or, like, on the weekends, like, as family, like, as a family, we like to go, like, cheer on, like, you know, whoever's swimming that weekend. And so we. Yeah, we. We've actually, like, looked at our, like, chores and things we do at home, too. And it's like, tried to be like, okay, what can we get more help with that? We hired someone to come over for four hours a week to help us with, like, laundry and, like, straightening around the house. And I'm like, that actually puts so much time back into our week, too, which is, like, not a business expense. And we're, you know, very fortunate to be able to do that. But that is, like, time. So that then when it's like that Saturday, rather than, like, you know, I can maybe take my son to the park or something or just have those hours back to do something, that bills are cut more.

That's great. And I think it's all. It all comes back to this idea of levers and variables in our life. And, you know, we have all of these different things that we can slide up and down. Some of those are set like, some of those you can't change. And we have things in our life that come up that are inevitable. Medical expense or whatever. But, you know, expenses generally in our life can be adjusted up or down. Expenses within our businesses can be adjusted up or down. Our time in any given day or week can maybe be adjusted up or down. And again, there's going to be some things that can't be. But generally speaking, we have the ability to shift, change, adjust, tweak, and we're never going to get to our, you know, perfect outcome. But there's always going to be the ability to think strategically. I think that's what it comes back to. And, like, almost have a design mindset in approaching your work and your life and looking at it as kind of one holistic picture and saying, what is. What's the game that we're trying to. Trying to play. And it's. I'm reading this book right now called the Psychology of Money, and it just talks about this mix that we have with like, the decisions that we make within our life around money. But also so much of it just really comes down to our life and how we are approaching our life and being strategic about that. And when you introduce business into it, building a business, running a business or a career could also fit within that. You start to have a lot of optionality for how you change and adjust that. So I think it's important to point out and important to talk about. It's one of the great benefits that you have when you're building a thing is the ability to kind of shift and adjust. One last question I want to ask related to that is your Sunday meeting. Tell me about that. What does that look like and how's that evolved through the years?

Yeah, so I think it came out of like, necessity of like, we have kids that have all these places they need to be with moving parts and their schedules get busier as they got older. And then, you know, also like, you know, I have days where like, I needed the kitchen, and so it's like more helpful if my husband goes to work at like the office that day or things like that. So just out of necessity, we're like, we need to be fully on the same page starting each week on Sundays. And so we like, we'll just sit down with our calendars and just like talk through the week. Just like, this person needs to be here at this time. Like, this person needs to be here at that time. And now that my oldest is 13 too, like, we'll have him come and like, yeah, kind of be responsible for like his schedule and his calendar too. Like, okay, this is like, we're gonna be with this one. Like, this is gonna be picking you up. And then like, yeah, that's like, alongside that, we'll usually do like a meal plan for the week too. Like, okay, like, who's making dinner this night or who's, you know, like we have. Yeah, it's like we usually rotate who's making dinner based on, like, you know, who's driving, whoever, where.

Basic idea is like, it's a time for you. Is it like a half hour hour where you sit down and you just like, talk through the week, get on the same page? And it's. It's like a logistical kind of planning session for your families and it.

Yeah, and it's. It's a kind of like a, like A nice check in, like relationship wise too. Just to be like, okay, like, what are your, like, top tasks that you have on your plate this week? And like, what are the top things that you need my help with this week? Just making sure we have time to account for that too. Like, my husband is a software developer, but you know, like, he sometimes likes to work on like, you know, a project here or there. And so like having a few hours for him to do that too. And then like, you know, he knows like, oh, if I have this big cookbook manuscript deadline, like just getting on the same page with like both of our works and where the kids need to be and all that.

Yeah, that's great. I love that. Before we continue, let's take a moment to hear from our sponsors. So here's a funny thing on the Food Blogger Pro podcast, I don't often talk about Food Blogger Pro membership. It's a huge part of what we do. And the reality is the majority of our time as a team is spent thinking about and working with the Food Blogger Pro members. So we wanted to take some time to remind people that if you want to take the next step, like go beyond just this podcast, you can join Food Blogger Pro. If you're interested, all you need to do is go to foodbloggerpro.com we're going to tell you more about what a membership entails. And if you're interested in signing up, you can just hit the Join now button. What does that mean? Well, we have a community forum where there's the Food Blogger Pro industry experts, many names from which you probably recognize from this podcast. We also have deals and discounts on some of the most popular and important tools for food creators and food bloggers. We have courses that dive deep on photography and video and social media applications. We do live Q&As with industry experts. Like recently we had a conversation with an SEO expert named Eddie from Raptive where he talked about republishing and how to be strategic with your approach to republishing and why that's important. We do these coaching calls where I jump on with a creator and we talk about how we can look at their business and grow their business. And the cool thing is, for those of you who listen to this podcast, we actually have a members only podcast called FBP on the Go where we take some of these video lessons that we're doing, like these coaching calls or these live Q and A with experts and we roll those up into a podcast. So if you don't have Time to sit down and watch those. You can actually just listen to them like you do this podcast, but it's a members only podcast, so if you're interested again, you can go to foodbloggerpro.com and check it out. It's a great next step for anybody who's been listening to the podcast for, for a long time and wants to dive deeper into growing and building and scaling their business. So let's talk about meaningful eats some more. One of the things that's so great that you had highlighted as we were kind of talking through what we could talk about here is Instagram growth. So you went from 25,000 to 250,000 followers on Instagram. You also referenced really enjoying, like creating Instagram content and reels. What do you, when you look back at that period of growth, like, what contributed to that growth the most? How were you able to do that?

Yeah, so I like, it was about, it was like last spring I decided I really want to focus on Instagram. I feel like I kind of always just had my virtual assistant who's worked with me since 2017, just kind of like take the image from the blog post I published and just she would put it up there. And I never even really did much over there, but I was like, I feel like, which is all the changes coming down the pipeline with blogging, it's going to be more and more important to just have a strong personal brand and to be connecting personally with people in my community and also like just creating helpful content for them too over there. And so I was like, I'm just going to make this my goal for the rest of this year to really figure out what's going to work for me on Instagram. So I listened to all kinds of podcasts about different people sharing different strategies and what was working for them. And I really feel like every account is so different because I think I listened to an episode, a podcast episode, where someone, a food creator, shared that she had grown her Instagram account. You know, like to be on 100k just by sharing like hero shots of a cookie, like, just like three second close ups of a cookie. And I was like, oh, wow. And so I tried that with my audience and it did not work at all. I went through a little period where I tried this like gluten free, dairy free meal Monday series where I was like, I don't like creating this kind of content because I'm more of like a baking desserts person. And I didn't want to have to like come up with a savory recipe every Monday. So I went through like a bunch of trials and errors and just saw like what resonated most with people. And for me, what I landed on with my audience is that it's like the 30 to 60 second long reels that are very instructional and helpful and kind of like really nailing down like what, what is my account about on Instagram? And I like, we're about easy, approachable gluten free baking. I'm not like kind of defining what I'm not doing there too. Like, I'm not sharing my grocery hauls. I'm not sharing restaurant reviews. I'm not sharing my, like, you know, this. And like, for me that personally, it's been like so great to just pare down. Like this is what I'm doing. I am sharing how to make gluten free baked goods on these image reels. And, and so yeah, I found that like the, the 32 seconds with a voiceover with like 0.8 to 1 second clips, lots of hero shots. Those do really, really well for me. And, and it kind of against a lot of like the things that I've heard out there where like you need to share a reel every day if you're gonna grow. I actually decided to focus more on quality over quantity. And I think about like some of the DIY like interior design traps I like to follow and they don't share stuff every day. They, but they, when they do share something, it's like this really amazing like mud room makeover. And it's like a whole reel that's dedicated to this one project that's really high quality. And so kind of taking a page from that, I was like, I'm gonna do less and just share two really high quality reels a week and see how that does. Yeah, and that's been, been worked really well.

Like I think the thing that I take away from it, when I hear you telling your story of growing, it's like you made the decision. Number one, I feel like that's such an important piece. It's like, okay, this is gonna be something that I'm gonna do. I'm gonna set out to grow my Instagram account. Number two, you then consumed a bunch of content from people who were talking about how to grow your Instagram account. So like, my guess is a lot of that is not applicable. You kind of learn it. You maybe like try it out. It doesn't work. Maybe you don't even try it out because it feels like kind of weird, but like you just have this influx of information that then you parse through, you decide what to do and with some of it, you do it. And it's like that did work and with other strategies you do it and it doesn't work. But the point is it was kind of those three things. It's making the decision, it's consuming the content that you need to essentially give you the ability to pick and choose from what you want to try. And then you actually go out and execute and do it. And from there you developed a little bit of like a sixth sense around, hey, this is something that's going to work for my audience. Once you do that, then you kind of rinse and repeat. Is that more or less kind of.

Yeah, that's a great way to summarize it. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's kind of like it took a while and that's what you always hear people saying, like, oh, you just got to get in there and try stuff. And just like, you know, I feel like an overarching thing through my blogging career has been to be impatient with action, to take action quickly. Like, we're going to make this through, we're going to try it, but then kind of patient with results like watching like what's working, what's doing it. And so yeah, and another thing that's actually I think really been good too is like doing series like where it's like the 12 days of gluten Free Christmas treats or like a series on the top 10 gluten free cookie recipes. Right now I'm doing a series on Gluten Free Baking 101 that those series. I've noticed I have a lot more follows when I have even if they don't even get like as viral as others because people are like, oh, I want to know what number three, four and five are of this like 10 part series that I saw video number seven for. And so I've noticed like having like little like mini like episodes series of things on Instagram. People follow from that.

It gives people a reason to follow. Like one reason is because people just are interested in what you're doing and they're like, hey, I want to follow this person. But it's additionally beneficial if you can also then create some stronger call to action around a follow. Like a series where people are like, oh, I'm interested in, like you said, you know what the other five are. If you've released most of them but not all of them, this 12 part series, then people will follow so they can Kind of see what's coming down the line. I love that. Anything else that from almost like a tips or tricks or tactical kind of standpoint, that's been helpful. I even think of things like are you including like when you create a piece of content, are you prompting people to follow? Like hey, make sure to follow along here or anything like that where you're kind of trying to intentionally build in some mechanisms around following or growth.

You know this, this is one that I think a lot of people probably have heard of, but maybe somebody. Some. Some listeners have not is about manychat. I have used that and I feel like that is very helpful for. It's like at the end of the video you say comment recipe and I'll send you the recipe. And it's amazing to me just like how unwilling people are to like go to your find, look up your blog and like look for the recipe. Even if you give them like in the caption like four ways to find it. It's like they just want you to.

Easy as possible friction as easy as possible.

So. And what also what that does too is all those people commenting recipe. Like I. I obviously don't know all the secrets of the Instagram algorithm, but I feel like them commenting that does help to kind of get the video going too. Where it starts getting that engagement and then so many chat I think is a great tool. I've also found manychat to be really effective for like selling cookbooks too. So yeah, if people are not trying manychat and they want to find a way to kind of increase the engagement on their reels, that's a great tool.

That's great. So can you talk about functionally how that works? So you say are going through the process, you create this video, it's a recipe and you say hey, comment recipe. To get this sent to you. Somebody comments recipes. Is it sending them a dm? Like what. What does that look like? And you have that set up within ManyChat as a. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ManyChat they have an app on the phone. So like as soon as I publish the reel, I will go to manychat and you create an automation. And so it's like you select the reel and it's like when someone comments like and you can say if you, if you can make the choice be any comment. Or you could be like when they come up with a specific word, I usually do the specific word like when they comment recipe just because I don't want it. If somebody says like can I make this egg free? That you're like, fit the recipe. Like, that's the recipe, like a robot. And so. So, yeah, you can choose, like, what triggers it, sending the recipe, and then you also hook up, like, the response that you want to give. And I believe it's like, you can.

I.

There's like a little text blurb followed by the option to include three links. And so sometimes I'll include like, a link to the recipe and a link to my cookbook or like a link to, like, you know, a roundup for Memorial Day recipes as well as the dessert. So, yeah, and then it sends it right to their inbox. And I myself, like, really enjoy it when I. There's, like, you know, fashion or home influencers that I'm like, oh, I want that, like, Amazon kitchen gadget. I just love it when I have the link just right there in my inbox. So I think the same goes for recipes.

That's great. And like you said, you know, I think it's one of the tools that you can use, like, anytime that you can shorten the. Or make it easier, more frictionless. For somebody to take an action is a beneficial thing. And you talked about the cookbook and that being a really beneficial thing. If you mentioned the cookbook or even if you just have a recipe, you can say, hey, check out my cookbook here. I know you went through the process of self publishing that cookbook and have also had success in, like, launching, building, and scaling that as a product that you have within, you know, your business. Talk about the decision to self publish, and then we'll talk about some of the things that you've learned from marketing that.

Yeah, yeah, I. I think that, like, having been blogging as long as I have, you know, years ago, I was like, oh, I'll probably never do a cookbook unless it's some kind of, like, legacy project that I just wanted to do for fun to like, have this, you know, you know, catalog of my recipes or whatever. I never thought that a cookbook could make money. Like, I thought that it was something where you did it. Just like to say you did a cookbook.

Yeah.

And I. That could not be further from the truth. When you self publish a book, I think, like, there's. When you go the traditional publishing route, you're, you know, you're optimizing for other things like reach or maybe you're like a speaker and you want that credibility to show that you're in Barnes and Noble and Target and Amazon. But if you're optimizing for profit and also to just provide something really great for your community specifically. There's so many benefits to self publishing. I have a few notes right here. I realized with the self publishing that my ability to reach my audience and to know what they want is actually higher than it is for a traditional publisher. I think that us as creators, like we have a larger cultural reach at this point than a lot of like traditional publishers do. And so like that need where when you used to publish a book maybe you know, 20 years ago or something, and we didn't have the kinds of audiences and social media that we do now, there is more of a need for being able to get that distribution. But nowadays, like us as creators, we can use that attention that we like, work so hard to get. Like a lot of big companies, their number one expense is customer acquisition. And it's like we have so many eyes on us already. So like using that attention to put towards a product which I think specifically as food bloggers, sometimes we forget about that because we're so focused on like ad revenue and Google search results and that. So it's like, you know, there's some, there's a whole world of like digital marketing out there that I sometimes remind myself exists. I'm like, oh, there's like people whose like whole businesses are doing this. And like I just like, oh, what about if I, you know, have made a product and had people look at that instead of just like getting a click through.

Totally. So just. And it. And I feel like it also creates a different incentive for your Instagram following when suddenly the purpose isn't like to get people over to your blog. It's like great if they do that. But also it's like you have a product to sell and let's say the blog goes away. You'd still have a great business in that you have the attention of an audience that's ever increasing and the ability to talk to that audience about a product that you have. I know that you shared before, like in the first nine months, you know, the cookbook sold almost a hundred thousand or around $100,000 in total revenue, which is incredible. What does that look like from like a launch versus ongoing? How has that looked kind of month to month as you've gone through the process with the cookbook?

Yeah. So I, I just decided to like, just kind of like go for it and just make like a smaller little book just to see if I even liked having a physical product. So I just put together. It was called Gluten Free Cookies, brownies and bars 41 recipes there were most of them are already on my site. And just hired a graphic designer to put together a book. I printed it with a company called Mixum and where you can just upload it and like order however many quantity you want. That's a really great way to just like get started with it. Like got some envelopes from a company called Sticker Mule to package them with. My husband helped me set up a shop using an app called Equid for the background. And we were just like, we're just gonna see how it goes. We just ordered a thousand copies and we're like, we'll just see. And the feedback I got from my audience was like so positive. People were like, I love having. There's something to be said for like I kind of felt like, oh, like these recipes are already on my website. Like it's not even anything really new. And you know, fully transparent about that with the book too. But people want a physical cookbook. Like they like to not have to scroll through ads or to have like a book that they have in their kitchen. It's just a totally different experience than going to a website to get a recipe. And so. And it makes a great gift. It makes a great like everybody knows someone who's gluten free. And so it's a great like people like, you know, love to buy to the gift for people. And so sold through a thousand copies like within I think it was like three months. And my Instagram audience was much smaller than two because it like I think I then had been, I was like 45,000 and then I had a bunch of reels go like really viral during Christmas time. And I like had mentioned the book in that and so that I sold through like just in the month of December, sold through like like almost a thousand more with that. So we ordered more. And I like, I keep being like, we should have ordered more than a thousand at a time because there's like, you know, discount pricing if you order more. But we just like, we're kind of risk averse at first doing it. And so I was like, you know, the feedback I got from my audience though, after doing that smaller little cookies book which we're still selling, we actually just had another shipment of books come in last week because we sold out again during Mother's Day is that. But the feedback I got is that a lot of my audience wants like a more comprehensive gluten free baking book. And so I have another cookbook that I just submitted the files for last week that is being printed With a different publisher. Not publisher, but printer. And it's going to be like a hardcover, linen bound, flat lay, like nicer like coffee table esque book that's going to have 60 of like basic, like if you're new to gluten free, like these are the recipes you need to have. And that one we placed a significantly larger order of and I think launching it to this larger Instagram following, also a larger email list. All of that I think is going to be, you know, I, I found that the best way to market the book is through Instagram and email.

Sure.

And so those are two really powerful tools.

It justifies, number one, if you have an email list and you've been building that, but also the work that you do in building an Instagram following and that, you know, with Instagram, like we said, you can direct people to your site. You could do like affiliate or sponsored deals, which is great. But if you can start to figure out like how to have your own products that you integrate in, maybe it's a part of your autoresponder series. When people sign up on your email list, like all of that stuff can compound in a really compelling way. What does it look like on the publishing side? Like the numbers? Do you, is it like $20 to get a book published if you're doing a run of a thousand or how much does that actually cost? Like to the degree that you're comfortable talking about those numbers?

Oh yeah, I'm happy to share. And I know that like prices fluctuate too. If you upload a 5 by 9 book a mix of minutes different than I telling you, then just know that it changes month to month. But when I printed it it was between five to seven dollars like a copy. Like I think that we ended up placing like an order for 2000 and that was like closer to like it was like high fives like a book. But then there's like the freight shipping too. So if you put calculated that to the cost of it, it ends up being like six to seven dollars a book. And then we ship our books via USPS media mail.

Yep.

And so that ends up costing like, like less than $5 usually per label. Kind of depends on where it's going. And we're actually like, we decided to fulfill the books ourselves because it kind of gives our kids a job too. Within the kids.

I was gonna say it's like a perfect job.

It's a great job for kids. My kids, my 9 year old especially is like on it like he loves helping pack them up. And. And it's. The kids are just funny because, like, my husband's a software developer. Like, I'm a food blogger. But they kind of like, our jobs are, like, on the computers. And they're very, like, vague to them, but they're like the cookbook. Cookbooks. That was like, for the Mother's Day thing at school, my son was like, my mom sells cookbooks. Like, kind of like it's a real, like, tangible thing that kids are like, this is what we're doing.

We asked our daughter once, she was like, what does dad do for work? And she's like, email. Like, I think that's basically what you do is, like, send emails. Which is, like, kind of true.

I know my daughter's always like, it looks boring to be a dad because he's like, on the computer all the time.

So with the cookbook kind of all in, it sounds like 10 to $12 for that. Again, there's a lot of, like, variables within that that go into it. Yeah. And then can sell it for $25, $30 on your site. Like, it looks like right now for 2799.

2799. And then I wanted to leave enough buffer there to, like, allow for a sale, too. And then so it's like $5 shipping. So then I only put it on sale twice for Black Friday and then Mother's Day. And then, like, I offer free shipping then and 25% off. And so that the margins are, like, less than. But still, like, you know, enough that it's. It's worth it.

Yeah, that's awesome. And I think, again, like, as if we can layer in different ways to create an income. And for you, it's like, you know, you have your site, you have ad revenue that you can earn from that if you want to, or, you know, you have 250, 300,000 followers. You could do sponsored content. But to have a product is a really valuable thing because you just have complete control over it. Like, you can run a sale when you run it, want to run a sale. You can promote it when you want to promote it. And you have these different channels then which you can be strategic about. So I just really love that as an option for people. And it also creates a level of security as a business. Like, you just are diversifying the sources of revenue you have. And ad revenue, let's say it goes down. There's, you know, everybody's talking about Google algorithm updates and, you know, generative.

It's nice to have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's nice to have something to focus on that's not SEO and algorithm updates too. Like, it's been just like, it's really fun to like create a physical product. And, and not only that too, I recommend it to any food bloggers who are thinking of doing it. Like, I highly recommend it because it's also like, your audience will like it too. Like, they'll, if they love your recipes and the work that you're creating, like, they will welcome an opportunity to have a physical copy of that in their kitchen.

Yeah. And I think a lot of times want to support you as a creator. Like, these are people who have a connection to you and potentially have followed along with what you've been doing for years, you know, definitely months, and want to support people who have helped them. And so I think if nothing else, it's like a gift to followers as well when you go through the process of creating something like that. So I'm curious to know, as you look out, you know, you've been at this for a decade plus, when you look out a decade, like, what do you see ahead for yourself as a creator? Like, where would you imagine yourself going? How would you imagine potentially your work evolving to the degree that you can like, look ahead? What do you think that looks like?

Yeah, I really, I have really been like, just loving creating products, actually. I, I think my ideal would be to get to a place where I've hired the right people and have the right systems in place with my blog and my website that, that can be run on autopilot with like, people updating posts or helping with publishing newer, you know, a few new recipes a month there. But I really do want to focus like my business more so going forward on connecting with my audience, being like, finding or attracting the right people on Instagram to serve really well and then creating products for them. Like, I can already think of the title of this. My new book coming out is called let's Bake Gluten Free. I already have all the recipes written down for let's Bake Gluten Free Volume two. Like, you know, I have like two more cookbooks. I have four cookbooks that I'd love to do like, already off the top. And then like, I'm like, I. And I can kind of see the vision too with like, for so many years I've been focused on traffic and that's still very important. That will never go away with my business. But, but I think like, shifting over to kind of like being a more well rounded, like, business as a whole with like, more Income streams.

Yeah, it's. I talk about this post a lot. It's like this ancient post on the Internet called A Thousand True Fans. Kevin Kelly, who is a kind of a tech writer, but he talks about this idea of, like, creator economy that can be sustained through all of us having a thousand true fans. And I feel like this is a great example of that where, you know, in your case, it's, you know, starting to prove to be 5,000, 6,000, you know, 7,000, probably 10,000 true fans. But you go through this process, and it's probably ever growing, like, as you grow your reach and your connection, you have these true fans. But then much like an artist who creates an album, you release a new album, and those fans purchase that new album. And I think for us as publishers, creators, artists, like, when we create a work, then our true fans then are excited about purchasing that. And in your world, you know, cookbooks is a great example of that. So it's cool to hear. How about one more question for anybody who's starting today? You know, you talked about this idea of sometimes you can hear from people who have been doing it 10, 11, 12 years. It can be like, oh, it's like a different scene, or things are different now. What would your advice be for somebody who's in the early stages of building their career? They're a creator, they want to get started, they want to get traction, they want to do what you've done, which is like, build a business, be an entrepreneur, maybe have some of the benefit of, like, that time flexibility. What would your advice be to them?

I would say pick a platform that excites you to create on, like, where whether it's, like, starting. I was just talking with one of my neighbors about this this week, and she's wanted to start a podcast for a business that she's pursuing. And I'm like, that's a great way to start. Just, like, go all in with one thing and, like, go all in with a podcast or maybe go all in with Instagram and get really good at that one thing before you feel like you have to add all these other parts into it. And so kind of like, I feel like you don't even have to say, like, I'm passionate about this, because I feel like that puts a lot of pressure on people sometimes. Like, but just, like, think about what you kind of have, like, an inclination or an interest for. Maybe you, like, naturally gravitate towards. Maybe you, like, you enjoy having conversations with people, Maybe you enjoy creating in this way and just pay attention to what you like. And then I would say like, stay focused on one area until you kind of master that.

That's great. Yeah, I love that. And I think, you know, I think you referenced this a little bit, but this idea of zone of genius, part of the benefit of that is that not only are you working on the things that you are uniquely skilled at, but you're also working in the arena where you're especially skilled. And it's, you know, for some people it's podcasting, for other people to writing and they do substack. For some people it's Instagram and it's reels. For other people it's SEO. Like we kind of clump all of these things together, but they're all really different in terms of the skills that they require. And I think it's such good advice to pick one of those and go really deep on that. Become an expert on that as opposed to thinking like you kind of have to be everything everywhere to just pick one of those and go deep is such great advice. So yeah, Aaron, it's been great to talk to you. I'm sure people are going to want to connect with you and follow along. Where can they do that?

Yeah, I'm just at meaningful leads on all the places, even TikTok and meaningful eats.com awesome.

Aaron, thanks so much for coming on.

Thank you.

Hey there, this is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast for we really hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to go even deeper into learning how to grow and monetize your food blog or food business or you're interested in starting a food blog, we definitely recommend that you check out the Food Blogger Pro membership@foodbloggerpro.com membership. In the membership, we share all of our course content about topics like monetizing photography, essential tools and plugins, building traffic, and so much more. We also host monthly live Q and as and coaching calls to dive deeper into the topics that food creators need to know about and have a forum where all of our members can ask questions and get feedback from each other. From the Food Blogger Pro team and all of our incredible experts, we have received lots of amazing testimonials over the years from Food Blogger Pro members. We've helped over 10,000 bloggers do what they want to do better, including this one from Tammy from the blog Organize Yourself. Skinny. Tammy said this month, after 12 years working full time in higher education, I resigned from my position to become a full time professional blogger. This was a decision I did not take lightly. But in the last seven months, I made more money blogging than I made in my, quote, real job and decided it was time to take the leap. I strongly believe that because of the knowledge you share within your income reports and also on Food Blogger Pro, I was able to to take my blog to a professional level. I have been and continue to be inspired, motivated and educated by the information you so selflessly and graciously share with all of us. Thank you so much for that incredible testimonial, Tammy. We're so happy to have you as a Food Blogger Pro member. If you are interested in becoming a Food Blogger Pro member and getting access to all of the content we have for our members, head to food bloggerpro.com membership to learn more. Thanks again for listening to the podcast. We really appreciate you and we will see you back here next week.