Leveraging 3 Million TikTok Followers to Launch a Product with Dana Hasson

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Hey there. This is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team and you are listening to the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. This week on the podcast we are speaking with Donna Hassan. She is an entrepreneur, content creator, self taught baker, and the founder of Homemade Ish, where she has recently launched her first physical product, Cookie Starter Kit. Donna has spent the last decade building her business, reaching over 3 million followers on TikTok and launching this first physical product. In this interview, she shares how and why she transitioned from beauty and fashion content to food content and how she balanced networking and creating in the early days of building her brand. She describes that season as one of quiet hustle, which I think a lot of you will resonate with Bjork. And Donna also discussed the process of launching a physical product, why she decided to make cookie starter kits, how she built the team behind the product, developed a scalable recipe and the food science involved, and then everything else you need to consider when developing your own product. Donna shares lots of her tips and tricks for growing a following on TikTok, creating video content, and then how to leverage that huge social media following to support other aspects of your business. It's a really enjoyable interview. I think you'll take a lot out of it, so I'm just going to let Bjork take it away.

Donna, welcome to the podcast.

Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Yeah, we're going to be talking about something that I personally don't know a lot about. There's a lot of things I don't know a lot about, but one of them is TikTok growth. You have millions, multiple millions of followers on TikTok. But the other thing we're going to be talking about that I also don't have a lot of expertise or experience in is physical product, like creating a physical product to pair with your social following. It's one of the things we talk about all the time. It's great to do sponsor content. You know, it's great to build a following, but one of the smartest things you can do is start to think about, hey, what does it look like to create a product adjacent to the following that you have? So we're going to be talking about all those things, but before we do it, we always like to hear a little bit about origin story, how it got started. I know that you started to create content, think about creating content when you were in school. Tell us about what that looked like and kind of your exploration stage around what type of content you wanted to create.

Yeah, so we. It's funny because I always had a love for just visuals. Like, remember just being super young and forcing my family friends to grab their fancy camera and just, like, start capturing, you know, myself or other, just, like, things around us. And so when I went to school, I studied fashion merchandising. I love fashion and it's something that I still love very much.

And.

And we did a case study about Chiara Ferragni. I don't want to botch her name.

Sure.

And she basically is the OG on Instagram. She started with just a blog and, like, the whole, you know, blogging and then Instagram kind of came along. And at the time, I think she had probably like over 10 million followers. And it was that light bulb moment where I was just like, hmm, okay, there's something here. Maybe I should give it like a full shot. And so I basically just started exploring. I downloaded Instagram. I did miss the wave of just, like, weak algorithm where you can just grow, you know, like blow up, quote, unquote. And I was exploring. I was definitely just like, trying and, you know, posting. I mean, it was basically just my friends who followed me at the time.

And when Was this?

Like, 2016, I would say is when I was, like, exploring. And I basically told everyone around me, when there's a new app that comes out, please let me know. Like, I need to be the first one. Because I feel like I've gained a knowledge with, like, Instagram and what to do on how to basically do it when a new platform comes along.

Yeah, you develop the skills of content creation. Like, that's what you're practicing, that's what you're getting better at. And then was the bet at that time, you want to know about these new platforms because you're willing to take the risk of showing up and being an early creator. There might be upside of being able to grow with the wave of the platform. There might be the downside of you spend a lot of time on a platform that doesn't take off, but that's what you were interested in at that point was to know about what these new platforms or the new apps might be.

Yeah, I was just, you know, I had nothing to lose. I was in school. I just wanted to pursue something that wasn't a traditional 9 to 5. And I interned to kind of know that I don't want to be in a 9 to 5 area, you know, office. And, yeah, I basically was just on the lookout, but at the same time making just as many connections as I can. You know, I would just come into the city every day. I was on Long island at the time with my parents, and I was just, you know, literally asking everyone to just get coffee with me, and I would not stop until they said yes. And so.

And who were these types of people? Like, were they other creators or people who had jobs at agencies? What did that look like? Because I think that even that little nugget there is a helpful piece, because sometimes we can look at somebody's story and their arc and think, hey, well, you did these things and you grew. And, you know, you feel like you can understand it, building it backwards, but really there's a. Oftentimes a season of, like, Quiet Hustle. And it feels like that's potentially what that was for you, which is Quiet Hustle. It's not even like you're creating content, building a following. It's like you were just trying to learn. It sounds like I was trying to.

Learn and just, like, connect with everyone because my mindset was your network is your net worth. Like, if I am making as many connections and people can kind of spot me now, then when I am hopefully one day becoming something bigger than what they're seeing, they're kind of like, ooh, I watched this process go down, and I want to be, you know, helpful and supportive. So back to your question. Yes, agencies, just, like, brand, like, PR girls that worked in, like, agencies that are, you know, in house or not in house and just anyone. And then, of course, other creators as well, and, like, creating content with other creators. But it was just like, anyone who would say yes to me at this point.

Yeah. And what did you learn from those early connections? Were there any takeaways that you can look back to and say, gosh, this was a nugget that I took away from this conversation. Or this was the most helpful thing, or is it more just like collectively it was helpful to build your network, I think.

And this might be cliche, but being nice, honestly, like, I will always be just nice to everyone and I feel like that's something I learned early on because you do meet a lot of, you know, people, so when you're nice, you honestly stand out. And, and that just felt to me like, okay, no matter what happens down the line, numbers don't define me. I want to just be true to who I am. So I feel like them kind of just giving me a mirror of myself was mostly what was going on. But I wouldn't say anything necessarily like learning. It's just kind of like networking, how.

To network, connecting with people. For a long time, my computer desktop was the. There's that like common phrase. I think there's like a poster of it. Work hard and be nice to people. But it feels like that's kind of what that was for you is like working hard. It's networking, it's reaching out to people. You probably get a lot of no's or non replies, but then you occasionally get somebody and there's a connection there. And I was just having this conversation with Lindsay, my wife Lindsay today, around the importance that the important things I've learned from doing coffee, a lunch, having a connection with somebody where there wasn't necessarily a clear objective, but it was a chance to connect. But so often what I found when I do have those interactions in those moments is they'll mention something that I wasn't aware of and I'm like, oh, that's really interesting. And there's a learning from that, or it's a tool that they're using that I didn't know about. Or maybe it's a way that the industry works that kind of helps color the picture in, in terms of my understanding of the thing that I'm trying to like get better at. And so it feels like there's so much that can come from that, but oftentimes it's not very well defined. We don't know. How did you, how did you balance that type of time, like time with people and connections, networking with the actual process of creating, like, what did that look like? Were you also trying to create a lot or was that more of a phase of learning and understanding the industry?

Yeah, so actually back then it was a tiny bit easier for me because I was focusing on just fashion and beauty. So that was, you Know, just me going into the city, having a meeting and then snapping a photo of my outfit and kind of continuing with my day. Also, videos were not really a thing. So time consuming. You know, things were not really around. I feel like a photo is so much. I don't say easier because there's still, like, a lot of science behind it, but definitely easier than, like, video. And then I have to, like, edit it and, like, you know, voiceovers and whatnot. So it was kind of like a multitasking meeting with another influencer friend. Take a photo of me. I take a photo of her kind of.

Yeah, Yep, yep. And you hear that a lot. There's conversations I've had. I know my conversations with Lindy, how content has shifted, and it's just so much more time consuming now. You know, whether it be on social media or if people are creating content online on a website or on a blog, the amount of effort that goes into any singular piece of content just goes up. A lot of that being video, like you said. But also what it takes to stand out, what it takes to be unique, novel, recognizable. There's also a level of, you know, supply and demand. There's a lot of people creating content, so you have to do a lot to stand out. At what point did you switch over to start doing video a little bit more? And my guess is that from one of those conversations, at some point when you were like, hey, tell me about the new app. Somebody was like, hey, you should check out maybe musically or like, TikTok, which is what TikTok was originally. Did you know right away that was going to be a platform that was a good fit for you? Talk about the early days of building your following there.

Yeah. So again, I was doing fashion and beauty, and that kind of is what I thought was my biggest thing. And actually, I found out about TikTok from my little brother because, you know, the little kids know about the hottest apps, and it was just, you know, a random summer day in July 2019. So, like, way before it was, like, a thing. And I just saw him and his friend making a video with, like, coins on the floor. And I was like, sure is going on here. And my parents kind of, like, pulled me aside. They're like, you should, like, download this and give it a shot. And honestly, like, to me, the biggest thing is when you go on an app and then you see how many people have followers and you kind of gather and be like, okay, there's enough people that are interested in this kind of content that I should give It a shot. And that's what happened. Addison Rae was on my for you page dancing with her mom with, like, 300,000 followers. So I was kind of understanding that there are a lot of people here and that I should try and give it a shot. But again, I did it very innocently. Like, I didn't tell anyone. Like, I was kind of just like, let me just, like, see what happens. And I was just experimenting with beauty and fashion, and then one day, I decided to post a donut recipe for the record. I love food. I always loved food. It was always something I love doing and hosting, so it wasn't, like, too out of the blue for me, but I just decided to, like, post and see what happens. And then that video got 4 million views, and I basically was like, oh, looks like we're gonna be baking for the rest of our lives now. Because it's funny.

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. The same similar thing. There's somebody I've referenced on the podcast before, happened with a friend. His name is tj. Where he was creating content online, was a really skilled creator. Is a really skilled creator. And then one day created this video around, like, birth order, like, youngest child, oldest child, middle child. And same thing where it went off. And I don't know the exact story. I don't know TJ super well. He's more friend of a friend, but I've hung out with him a couple times. But I think the general progression then from there was like, hey, this worked. What if I did an iteration of this? It was a little bit different, but had echoes of that same type of piece of content. Would that do well? And part of it is, we think about songwriting. You write a hundred songs, and then you write one song, and it's like, well, something about this resonated with people. You've practiced. You had 99 songs that didn't hit. But I think the same is true with content where you kind of have to create a lot for a long time, be willing to try different things, be willing to experiment, and then to see if something hits, and then from there, see if you can replicate that in some way where it's not the exact same thing, but it's maybe a version of that to see if it continues to work. Is that a little bit of what happened with that first video that you created, where it was like, hey, this worked. Let me see if I can create another kind of adjacent piece of content that might also do well, and that resulted in some of that early growth for you?

Yeah. So I would say that and also reading the comments, because I was like, okay, something clearly triggered these people to, like, make this video blow up. And basically, I kept on saying, should look like this after every step of the way that I was creating. And so I was just leaning in. I was like, all right, looks like I'm gonna be baking and saying it should look like this all the time. And it just kind of honestly just went viral. Like, every time I would post a video, it just did really well. And, like, again, I think it's the algorithm. Not a lot of creators were there. I was probably the first creator to not dance on the app too, which was very interesting.

Like, Addison Rae, that was a huge thing. It's like she was. That's what she was known for. And, yeah, exactly.

Like, I kind of was like, okay, I don't know how to dance. I'm not trying to dance. Let me educate them in a different way. And I think that's also why it kind of stuck.

Hmm. So you. Your point in that was you did this piece of content. You looked at it and you're like, why did this go viral? You started to look through the comments to see if you could extract some understanding of what it was from that content that made it perform well. You started to see people reference a line that you said in the content. Is that right? Where you said should look like this? And that, for you, was a learning. So then that was the thing that you looked at repeating in the content, moving forward and started to notice a pattern specifically with that. That phrase. Is that more or less kind of what. What you're saying you learned in that initial piece of content?

Yes, but also the baking. So it was kind of like just a mix of both.

Yeah, that was going to be my next question was, did you try and experiment, like, in the world of fashion by doing a similar thing and having a similar phrase, maybe even that phrase to see. Hey, does saying this work with fashion content? Was that something that you experimented with?

Honestly, no. Like, I was just kind of dividing my content into just like a fashion category, a beauty category, and baking. So I didn't really overlap except for the fact that I would get super dressed up to the kitchen. But we're talking, like, you couldn't even upload videos to TikTok. Like, it was straight up, like, you have to film on the app and post immediately, which is why people did dancing, because it was, you know, effortless. You put on a sound, you just do it. So it was very different, you know, to, like, hold the Phone speak. There was no voiceover at the time, like, speak and bake and like, all together. So I kind of just like tapped into different categories.

Yeah.

Until it was, like, evolving, you know?

Yep. And it's interesting. I did an interview, I'm trying to remember what episode it was with somebody who's a creator, TikTok creator. And she talked about this idea of she had this salad and she'd, like, shake a salad. And it was like she noticed that as being like this variable within the piece of content. But I think part of what it is is there's a little bit of experimentation with it and then saying, okay, what does. What does it look like to create? Could you do this forever? Like, potentially? And I think one of the things that we sometimes want to do as creators is we find a thing that works and then we very quickly look for the next thing. It's like, well, probably go deep with the thing that works and continue to do that. Now, obviously, there's the element of, like, wanting to have variety and be creative and. But also it's like if you think, find a thing that works, like, continue to iterate in that world as opposed to try and get too far away from it. In the marketing world, there's this concept that they talk about that I really love, and they say, like, one funnel can change your life. Which it's like, you know, it's kind of marketing speak and whatever. But I think it's really true that if you find one process, one funnel, and you've maybe seen this for your case, like, that can change your life. And I feel like an ultimate example is like, Haktua, like, that phrase changed her life. But what it requires for us as creators is like, showing up, putting content out. In your case, looking through, understanding that, trying to experiment with it, and seeing if you can build and iterate off of it. In TJ's case, it's like he found a thing that works, and it's like these birth order humor videos and. And what does it look like to go deep with that while also then looking at kind of how do you diversify around that without getting too far away from it? So as you've thought about your content, the things that have worked for you, what does that look like? How do you strike that balance between continuing to do the thing that works while also, like, building other experiments around that and trying other pieces of content to see if you can get other things that work?

Yeah, well, at first I was very focused on just, like, growing. I didn't even Care. It was definitely like, quantity over quality. I was just posting five times a day, every single day. And then Covid happened, which kind of worked in my favor. And everyone started downloading the app and, you know, posting and everyone were on it. But I entered Covid with a million followers. So I was kind of like, okay, what I'm doing is working. I might as well just keep going.

Yeah.

So I was experimenting with different videos. Like, I kind of knew, okay, my really big hits are, you know, my food. But then let me just do some beauty tutorials and, like, you know, just experiment with other things. And I feel like everything was just picking up at the same time because people were coming to my page. So it was kind of being able to do, like, all the things that I like in just different formats.

Sure. So, yep, Lindsay's talked about that with her. So she. Instagram is her primary channel, like, platform. And she'll do videos that are her in person, like, kind of in front of the camera, walking through recipe, but then she'll also do ones that are not her. And it's more of, like, a focus on the recipe. She's doing a voiceover with it. And she's had this, you know, kind of understanding of, hey, I think I can kind of understand the format for it's not a format, it's not guaranteed, but, like, the probability being higher with her not being in a video and it just being about the recipe and the potential for that to have some type of virality. All that to say, like, she's kind of living in this phase of experimenting but not wanting to get too far away from the thing that works. And I think it's so wise as you talk about, like, hey, I was growing. Why not just continue to do the thing that worked and that was working? So do you feel like there's anything that you could extract from that period of growth, you know, as you get to 3 million followers, that you could share with other people who are interested in building a following? Maybe on TikTok, it'd be the easiest one, or any social platforms in general. But, like, what did you learn along the way? That, like, let's say everything goes away, you're back to zero. That you could implement pretty quickly today.

Yeah, consistency. Honestly, I think it's annoying to hear because everyone tells you that, but it really is the secret. Like, I was posting five times a day, every single day for probably a year, which, of course, I mean, we were home, so it was much easier to just do it. Like, now even I can't even. I'm like, how did I do it? I have no idea. But consistency and also just like really understanding, like, what are you passionate about? And then do it because it shows when you're doing something that is forced and you're just doing it because everyone is doing it, versus when it's something you actually have some sort of knowledge. Like for, for example, baking. I mean, not everyone can just wake up in the morning and be like, oh, I'm going to bake and it's going to be amazing. Like, no, it's a learning curve. So I think just like, finding that one again, niche. I feel like I'm probably saying what everyone is saying, but. No, but it's great finding a niche and I don't know, just be authentically yourself. And yeah, if you keep on posting all the time, I mean, I don't know, I feel like anyone can go viral, you know?

Yep. We talk about this idea of tiny bit better every day. I think there's one thing, you know, and I think of spectrums. You could post a piece of content, which is like you watching TV and you could post it 10 times a day, and in 10 years, you probably wouldn't have a very successful content business. But let's say today you started and you posted a video today, and it was a video of you watching tv and it got like two views and one of them was like, this is boring comment on the piece of content. So you're like, okay, what can I do to make this a little bit better? So, like, the next day you post a piece of content, it's like you watching tv, but then it's like you get up in the middle of it and do a weird, unexpected thing. And then it's like, oh, there's like 50 people who watched it. Point being, I feel like it's consistency paired with continual learning, continual improvement, and that execution paired with improvement, that, to me feels like the secret sauce. And I'd be interested to hear your reflections on if you look at the content that you're producing in 2019, what have you done to make your content today better in order to allow you to continue to grow?

Yeah. Well, first of all, the app evolving, I feel like, has been helpful because now I can film not on TikTok and then edit it how I want and then upload. So that alone is like, huge for me, but also just showing more luxury. Like I started and I was just putting, you know, clickbait stuff. So like food coloring and like, the craziest, the dessert the better. Like it was really just like doing over the top things. But then I was like, okay, I want a different demographic of people following me and I want them to actually be going home and recreating my recipes and not just watch me for entertainment. And so I basically kind of like took a step back, moved to New York City. I got a really beautiful kitchen and I just started creating like really beautiful content that is not only just, you know, another recipe, but like something that maybe can educate someone in a way. But it took a long time and a lot of rejection. I mean, I remember like at first when I started like shifting away from like food coloring, people didn't even want to watch my stuff. And like, it was kind of like, ugh, like I have to kind of still migrate that old content to like show them that it's still me, but you slowly kind of like, you know, shift away and then last and last. And now I really, I never use food coloring anymore. I feel like my content grew up, as I like to call it, because I grew up and you know, a lot of people that have been following me five years ago are kind of like, oh my God, like we grew up together. Like I remember when you were at your parents kitchen, you know, like, it's kind of like we all evolve and I'm actually feel like I. I really physically feel like I'm going through that growth pain right now where I feel like content I was doing like maybe three months ago doesn't necessarily react the same that it was. So it's kind of like trying, and I'm saying this out loud and telling to myself, but like trying to not be so fixated about like the views and like, you know, some videos are not going to perform as good as others, but like just, you know, breathe in, lean in, see what does work. And yeah, kind of going back to square one and like, what can I do differently, you know?

Yeah, it's such a common refrain that I hear when talking to people who have. It could be a hundred thousand followers or it could be 5 million followers. But there's this common refrain of like, oh, it's things were this way and now they're this way. And it feels like the decision that you have to make, that's a really hard one, is do I try and is what I'm doing what I want to continue to do and I'm going to stick with it and feel like, will there eventually be an unlock with that thing or do you kind of consider the algorithm and like look at something else that's working. And do you kind of shift a little bit that way? It's a little bit of like, personal taste versus algorithm considerations versus observations of what's working. No point in that, other than for anybody listening that might feel that way, to know that there's this, like, universal truth around trying to sort through all of that stuff. And it feels like our brains aren't very well equipped to process all of that data, especially as it relates to ourselves. Like, it's different if it's something abstract, like you're looking at data from a sports team or you're looking at data on a spreadsheet. But when it's like you have a personal brand and that brand is the thing that has numbers attached to it, it feels like a hard thing. Before we continue, let's take a moment to hear from our sponsors. If you're a food blogger or if you have a social media following and you're looking to boost your income and grow your business, you need to check out Memberful. Memberful seamlessly integrates with your website, giving you full control and ownership of your brand, which we all know is so important. You can create tailored membership offerings like exclusive content, cooking classes, meal plans, private podcasts, so much more. It's a fantastic way to provide more value to your audience and create new revenue streams for your business. And the good news is Memberful handles the tough stuff like content protection, payment processing, subscription management, so you can focus on what you love, which is creating amazing content. Plus you can build a loyal community with private spaces like a Discord chat or exclusive member forums. And there's also in depth analytics and super easy payouts through Stripe, which is awesome because then you have these valuable insights and you also have a reliable way to get paid. And if you ever need any help, the wonderful thing is they have real humans there to help you. No chatbots guiding you through support forums. It's real people who understand membership sites, who understand content creators, and they are there to help and to lift the burden of some of the technical stuff, which not a lot of us love to deal with. So if you're ready to monetize your passion, take your business to new heights, head over to memberful.com food. That's M E M B E R F U L.com food. Are there things that you've done from like a mental health consideration, mental health standpoint as you've been building this business to help protect yourself from that type of stuff?

Yeah. Well, first of all, kind of backtracking from what you said is the hardest part about this job is actually not having control. Like, I have no control. Like, it's kind of like I'm relying on outside factors and that's how I'm getting paid, which is very cruel and hard. And so, yes. Leading up to mental health. Oh yeah. I mean, therapy has been life changing for me. And then also knowing to just really be present and like disconnecting from my phone and hanging out, talking to my friends and family and just like, I don't know, doing normal things. Which sounds, I mean, what is normal things? But like, normal things is like for me, not being on my phone, not thinking about posting or not thinking about filming everything that I'm doing in my life. Which I'm very grateful because my content is not necessarily like a. Oh, like I'm walking down the street, let me film it. Like it's very.

Yeah. Purely lifestyle curated.

Yeah. So but again, pros and cons, right? Because like, what. Maybe I do need to like dive into more lifestyle because that is where everything is shifted. And it's constantly like I feel like my brain is pulling me from different directions all the time. So it's important to just like, I don't know, stay grounded. Like, I meditate a lot and just journal. Like, I really try to prioritize my mental health because one, this can get to your head and you can just be like, oh, I am like better than everyone. And like, no, you know, like we're. This is just our job and we're good at it and that's great. But like, I don't want to not be myself, you know?

Yeah. One of the things I think about occasionally is like, how would using my grandparents as inspiration. I actually have on my desk. It's like the 1948 basketball championship for my grandpa. You know, it was like a high school basketball championship. And then it's like a, like a mint tin from my grandma. But the reason for it is one of the things I occasionally like remind myself of or think of is like they lived like, you know, they had some really hard things in their life, but they also had like a pretty charmed life, at least like when I experienced life with them. And it was pretty simple. And I think of that for myself and trying to say, like, when you talk about normal things, it's like they would really consistently get together with a small group of friends that they had and, you know, they would have patterns around. You know, they would do church on Sunday and they would do coffee on Saturday morning. And those as being the things that for myself at least, I feel those as like the most life giving. And I think sometimes when I look at my, you know, they talk about checkbooks and calendars being moral documents. Does my calendar reflect the things that I think would be best for me? Not always. And so I think that piece around, like, hey, reminding yourself to step back, to connect with people is such an important thing. One of the things I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on is the process of launching a physical product. So you have Homemade ish cookies starter kit. One of the things we often talk about on the podcast is this idea of product. Having a product, you have attention. It's the attention economy. And then with that attention, our decision is what we do with it. We can talk about nonprofit, we can talk about a brand that is giving us money to talk about them. We can talk about whatever we want to and monetize via ads, or we could talk about our own product. And if it's a good product, people go and they buy that. So in launching this cookie starter kit, the brand homemade ish, what have you learned in that process? Because it's something that not a lot of people have done.

Yeah, well, I always knew I wanted to have something. I didn't know what it was. And I think, I mean, the hardest part was probably just like, where to start. I think we all kind of have this like, fantasy of like, oh, yeah, I want to have my own thing one day and I want to start this thing. But what is the thing? Honestly, like, I like looking back like two and a half years ago now, I was just like, I'm launching a brand. Everyone's like, great, what is it then? Now? Sure, no idea.

What is it?

And I remember just like writing down, like, what is it? What is it? What is it? And I would just talk to every person around me and just be like, yeah, so I'm thinking of launching a brand. Like, I don't know, I mean, obviously I like baking and, you know, just kind of like gather information. And then once I started, like, I feel like getting some sort of like a feel. I then start doing like real research, which just like, okay, what is like the most like, popular thing that people are purchasing or, you know, just things that people are loving. And I basically just dived really deep into baking mixes and how it's so powerful, but then how bad it is for you and how there's so many horrible ingredients. And as someone who touches food basically every single day, and I feel like we all do. I mean, we need to eat to survive, but I do it also for fun. It was just really eye opening to me to just be like, wow, we really are consuming things without knowing what we're consuming. And that is so scary. You know, I'm obviously getting older and I'm like, wow, like, I really do care what I put in my body. Like, don't get me wrong, I mean, it's nice to have a little treat here and there where I don't have to think about it, but it's just something that really sunk with me. And so I just, you know, start diving deep and was like, okay, what if I actually created a mix that not only was just like clean, simple ingredients, it was also something that was so easy, so delicious and tasted homemade from a box.

Yeah, sure. And that's the idea of homemade ish, where it's like something that you would feel like, hey, this is. You'd go to somebody's house and it would feel like they've made these cookies. But it's actually something that's a little bit simpler to put together. What was that process like? Like, who are the team members that you need to assemble in order to do something like that? Because my guess is there's some, you know, with, with a content business, you can download TikTok, you can start creating your own content, you can scale that up. You probably eventually work with an agent or maybe have a team member who helps with contracts, maybe a va. But when you get into an actual physical product, it looks really different. Like you have the, you have shipping, you have storage, you have the, you know, development process of the product itself and regulations around food. And so how did you go about finding and assembling a team for that?

Yeah, well, I had no idea. Just have to start, like to say it because I think people are just like, oh, yeah, like you launched this brand, you know what you're doing? I'm like, no. And actually I still don't. And I'm kind of just learning as I go, which is honestly the best part about it. But I think the, like, the first thing I did was like, okay, I need a recipe and I need someone to develop it with me, so a recipe developer. So I kind of just was like backtracking. I definitely. So I'm a very visual person, which is why my product is very like, visually, I like to say beautiful because I was just so focused on the visual. So I actually, first thing I did was like hire someone to help me with packaging, even though I didn't even know what My recipe was so everything was a bit all over the place. But, you know, a graphic designer and then a recipe developer, and then someone who is going to help you with operations. Because there's a lot that goes down into operations that I'm still learning, and I feel like I still didn't crack down completely. And then, yeah, okay, great. Now what? So then you need a warehouse. Am I gonna ship it from my apartment, or is someone else gonna be doing it for me? And then also, the recipe that we developed, it's not a normal recipe. It's a scalable recipe. So, you know, the ingredient sourcing is a different game. And it's just. It was a lot of just like, you know, learning and asking people and other founders that have been so incredibly, you know, sharing, like, just would share information that I'm so grateful that they did. And honestly, that makes me want to share because I'm like, oh, my God, they were so generous to tell me things that I honestly would have probably taken years to learn if they didn't.

Like what. What's an example of something that you think would have taken a long time that somebody shared?

Well, one of my friends, they have a pickle company. It's called Good Girl Snacks. You should check it out.

Great, we'll link to it.

Yeah. And they basically connected me to my scientists. And I just know that without that knowledge, like, I don't know what I would have done. I mean, I'm sure I would have figured it out, but it was just kind of like, oh, wow. Like, they really were so amazing to do that for me, that I'm so grateful. And it would have really saved me, like. Well, it did save me a lot of time. You know, of course, you still have to interview and see that it's a good fit because, you know, I'm a people person, and, like, if someone has, like, weird energy, I just, like, cannot work with them. But it worked out, and I still work with them, and they're amazing. So.

And when you say scientist, can you talk about what that person does in the process?

Yeah. So basically, they understand how to create, like, a recipe, but not like a home recipe. So it kind of goes back to, like, percentages. I'm still trying to understand it myself.

Sure.

Maybe I'm not saying it right, but they basically just, like, think about things differently. So, for example, when you're packing, you know, dry ingredients, there needs to be no moisture. I wouldn't have known. So, like, things that you purse, like, you would buy at the store wouldn't work for you to just like pack it and like put in like a little box. Like it needs to be things that are just, you know, low moisture and like, I guess it's like a different product then because it's not your typical, like, you know, I don't know, sugar. So it's just a lot of things that I feel like I didn't know. Like vanilla. Like we're using a powder vanilla. You know where I feel like at home I'm using extract. So it's just a lot of small things that a scientist would know. And I. Yep.

And so are you able to come to them and say, hey, you work with a recipe developer. In this case it's a cookie recipe. You kind of get it to the point where you personally feel like, this is something I'm going to be excited about. So you have this recipe that is fine tuned for one that you've created at home and that you can bake. Then it's taking that to a food scientist and saying, okay, if we were going to productize this and create it as something that can be sold at scale, how would you do that? Then they kind of apply their scientist formula to it and say, okay, I see you put vanilla extract in here. We actually do have to do a dry vanilla. Here's what that would look like for the conversion from whatever, you know, two tablespoons to this amount in dry vanilla. Is that kind of what's happening in that step with the food scientist?

Yeah, I would say so. And then also just doing all the back end of things, you know, like the nutritional facts and like all these things that I'm like, how do you know how to do this? You know.

Yeah, yeah. So, and is there some fine tuning that happens there as well? Because my guess is you have your at home recipe that tastes one way and then you have the one that will be the package version and then it's tweaking the package version to get it to where you want it to be?

Yeah, so I. Basically what I would do is I would. They would send me like the brands that we would source from, would send me their ingredients and then I would sit there with a scale and just measure it exactly as it would be packed. And then I would be able to kind of test and see what I like and what I don't like. I remember the biggest thing for me was like the salt. I couldn't figure out the salt because salt is so important in baking. And I remember just like baking and then being like, oh, no, not Enough salt or too much salt, and it was just, like, stressing me out, and it took so long. But I think that's what makes, like, a recipe, like, perfect.

You know, is. Is the effort that you go through to make sure that you've kind of painstakingly made decisions around how much each ingredient should be and whatnot.

And not giving up, too, I feel like.

Yeah, sticking with it.

Yeah.

Yep, yep. So in. If you were to go, like. And I can really relate to this because I've gone through this process with businesses before where you. You have an idea and you're like, I'm just going to get after it. That's the most important thing is, like, you get after it and then you get to the point. Like, in your case right now with homemade, it's like, you can go on, you can buy this, but if you were to go back and do it again now on the second time, you'd be able to do it all so much quicker. Because, you know, the order to do it in, where it's like, you don't start with somebody from branding and then do, like, the scientists and then, you know, the recipe development, you know, the order that you'd go through for it. What would that order be if you were to go back and do it again? Like, how would you stack that up?

I think idea first and then nailing.

Idea being like, in this case, what are you doing? Cookie. Yeah, right.

Yeah. Like, what are you doing? What is your idea then? I would say developing the recipe, then dealing with operations. Well, operations and recipes. Kind of like hand to hand, because, like, you know, you're sourcing the ingredients as well. So it's kind of like the same step, in a way. And then finding a manufacturer and then finding, I guess, parallelly again, like a warehouse, or if you're going to do it in your apartment or, you know, you're going to get a studio and do it. And then.

To store it.

Yeah, to store it. And then you need a website developer to create a website, and then I think you can then launch. But there's more to it because you need to.

Sure.

The packaging takes so long and, like, that's what delayed us the most. And it's like things you don't think about because they always tell you, like, things are gonna go wrong, but then it's your case and you're like, oof.

Yeah, yeah, right. For other people, it happens. Not for me. And it's no for me as well. When you say operations, what does that involve?

What's under Operations, sourcing everything. Like, someone who's.

Every single ingredient, the bags that the ingredients go in, the.

Like, you don't think about, like, the seal to close the box. Like, you know, just things that I'm like, oh, my God. Right? We need that or like, a barcode. Like, I don't know, I need a barcode. Like, you know, just all these things.

Yeah. And so you need to make. And my guess, who would be the person that helps with that? Like, if you are sourcing those, is it the. A connection within the agency that has the food scientist, or is there, like, an adjacent operations industry that you work with?

So mine is all in one, but I would just look for operation. Yeah. Like someone who is some sort of experience with, like, operating. Because it's literally the operation of the business.

Yeah, it's. We had friends who were thinking of developing Na Drink. And what was interesting as they were talking about it was I started to realize, oh, my goodness, there's, like, these companies that exist, and they exist in order to help people, like, create and scale a product. And they have opinions on, like, what bottle you would put in there. And then they also are able to, like, create different variations of it that they were able to test and see if they liked one more than the other. And. And it's this whole world that exists, and you don't really. I mean, I know there's, like, web agencies. I know there's, like, Facebook marketing agencies.

Right.

But it's like, oh, of course. There's also food product agencies. It's just like something that I'm not as familiar with. And so talk to me about the point where you get to the. You go through the product development, you have the package, you're able to, like, have it, you're able to ship it. How do you start to intertwine that brand with your content? Like, what does it look like in terms of making sure you mention it enough without doing it too much? How do you make it organic without people feeling like you're selling all the time? What decisions did you make as a creator in pairing your brand with your content?

Yeah, well, I. So I feel like series is probably the best way because I basically was introducing something that people didn't even know I was working on. So it was kind of like a surprise. Like, this has been happening. So I really created like, a kind of how I built this moment. And I took the How I Met yout Mother sound and I kind of backtracked it. And I was like, kids, this is what happened. And kind of just took them along of like how I developed and what I'm doing without telling them what it is yet until the day I launched. And then the day I launched was kind of like, ah, like, this is it. So excited. But now that I am doing it, I mean, it's only been a month and a half now, so it's still very new. But I don't think there's right or wrong because I think if your content is, you know, genuine, they don't feel like you're selling anything. And for me, it's mostly brand awareness. Like, I want people to just constantly see my box all the time. So when they do come across it and like, I don't know, like an ad one day or like on the streets or in a market or at Whole Foods, they'll be like, oh, I've seen it before, actually. I know this brand, you know, so I'm not even thinking like so much conversion. More so just like awareness. I want everyone to know about us. And then, I mean, conversion just happens because obviously, you know, they see it and they want to try it and they're curious. So it's kind of like, I would say a healthy mix of the two. But I'm still trying to figure it out because sometimes I'll go a week without posting about it and I'm like, I need to talk about it.

Sure, yeah. But I love that idea of investing your effort into awareness. And one of the things that I talked Nathan Barry, he's the CEO of a company called Kit, previously ConvertKit Email Marketing. He has or had a podcast called the Billion Dollar Creator. And the whole premise with it, which I've thought a lot about and I think it makes a ton of sense, is this idea that creators have this ability to speak to a large group of people and they're really good at it. And a lot of creators, creators, if they're interested in like value maximization, like building a business that's big, which not everybody's interested in, but if that's your interest, one of the best ways to do that is to build an adjacent brand. Because so often that brand can be bigger than the footprint of your following or the creators that you're speaking to. Like, it can be a launching platform into something bigger, more significant, more valuable because it's scalable in a way that, like us as an individual creator wouldn't be scalable. When you think about what you're doing, is that a little bit of your hope is building an adjacent brand. In homemadish, that is Able to scale. Maybe you create other product lines within it, you create awareness within it, but that becomes. That eventually eclipses the. The content business side of what you're doing.

Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I, again, I've been doing this for like, five, seven years now. You know, five years on TikTok and then seven years overall. And, you know, you see, obviously it's an incredible income and I'm so grateful for the opportunities, but I'm thinking about my kids and I'm like, okay, one day, you know, like, I want to have something that is so much more, you know, meaningful. Not to say that being a creator is not, but, like, something that is more like physical, you know, like you can literally grab it and touch. And I feel like that's something that, you know, it's hard to do when we're just people on the screen. And, yeah, I'm hoping that one day, hopefully not soon, because I still love doing content, but it will be my main source of income. And then, you know, content is kind of like a side gig. And I really do see it happening already. Like, it's kind of just crazy. But I started this brand actually, and I was like, okay, I'm pretending like I don't have any followers. Like, I want to create a brand. Like, how? I don't know any brand that has been so successful, like a Betty Crocker, like, how they started. Obviously, every story is different and I'm still utilizing my platform, but I, you know, there's still so much, like, business 101 that you still need to know. Like, just because you have a platform doesn't mean you can cheat your way through it. And also kind of navigating the fact that you don't want to be a viral brand because then there's no longevity. Like, really creating a strong foundation and something that I know will be longevity and not just like, oh, another really cool. Just whatever, you know, like flash in.

The pan kind of thing. And what you're talking about is this idea that, like, the things that you have learned as a creator also apply in the world of a brand, because you're able to, as a brand, use those kind of cheat codes for creating that you've learned over the last seven years, which a lot of times, you know, have a brand who has a great product, but they're trying to figure out, like, how do we show up online? And is what you're saying, like, you kind of know how to do that because you've been doing it for seven years and now you can do it within the context of a brand.

Exactly. And also I do ads all the time. You know, brands pay me to create ads. So yeah, to me I'm like, great, let me create my own ads now, you know.

Yep. So can you talk about like from a business perspective? If you look at kind of the pie chart of your business, what does that look like? Is it primarily working with brands right now and then you're backfilling and building homemade ish as like your own internal brand that gets, you know, revenue for you? Do you have other types of like ad income that you get from other places? Just percentage wise, kind of at a high level. What does that look like and where do you, where are you hoping that it goes?

Yeah, I would say right now, I mean again, I just launched so I feel like I can't even speak into, you know, the brand giving me sort of income yet.

Yeah.

But I would say right now 100% of my income is from social media, from sponsorships and, you know, brands activation. I do a little bit of consulting as well. So that kind of like adds in and mix in since I have a lot of knowledge and I've seen it all. But where I'm hoping it would be, I'm hoping that it would like be 90, 10 of like my brand being 90 and like content creation is just the 10% that is feeding my income. Just because, I mean, TikTok's getting banned. That's just like another reason why you should have something that you know is more than just something. You're relying on other factors like, you know, my brand. It's up to me. I can go to the streets every single day and hand out cookies and you know, give people the spill on like this is why you need to buy it. And probably within two months it will blow up, you know, but then it's like social media, like, okay, great, I'm creating all this content, but then tomorrow they're banning it and then I'm like, yeah, now what? I don't have an income, you know.

Yep. Can you talk about your thoughts on the TikTok fan and what's happening with that? I know just from headlines, but I haven't really done any like deep dive on it as of today. We're recording mid December. This will obviously change and shift after the episode comes out. But what does that look like right now and what's your understanding of kind of the scene?

Well, it's not looking promising if I'm being honest. I feel like we've had many scares in the past, like five years. But this one for some reason just feels a bit too serious. Do I agree? And I feel like we have other things in America that they should focus on. Yeah, yeah, 1,000%. I think TikTok is probably their least of their concerns and they're moving it oddly quick, which is also what's super suspicious to me. But I mean, listen, I'm a big believer with everything happens for a reason. This is out of my control. It seems like they ask for an appeal, I think from the Supreme Court and they agreed to basically hear TikTok speak about it on January 10th, I think, which is just probably like a week before they do ban it. But I mean, their goal is to sell it. Like they want people, you know, another company to buy it in the US So then it's a US owned company. And I understand, of course, you know, I mean, who am I to say anything about that? But I don't know, it just feels like we would potentially go into a recession because there's so many businesses relying on it. Like, I don't know if you've gone just, you know, scrolling on your free time, but you can see so many people like going lives and doing like, okay, we're selling our product via live. Like it's the new cvq. I don't know, I just feel like if they really will ban it, like, it would be a really tough year for a lot of people. I mean, luckily we have other platforms, so I'm not so worried, you know, like, my content is my content. I'll just like start binging, you know, Instagram content and then, you know, hopefully I can master that and YouTube and whatnot. And I'm sure a new app will come. I mean, honestly, we're due for one, so I feel like that's probably happening anyways. But I don't know, it just really feels like it's touching about like freedom of speech here and it feels just a little bit suspicious again. But I have no idea what's going to happen. I kind of, I mean, right now I would say, yeah, it's like getting banned, but I hope I'm wrong.

Yeah, it's interesting. There's. Yeah, you, you hear. I think that's the counter to it is freedom of speech. Like, hey, this is a platform, it offers people freedom of speech. Obviously the other side is like it's controlled by an outside government agency which like, with a tweak of the algorithm could potentially impact people's political views or whatever. And so the hope you know would be that it to your point, there's a lot of people who their job, they've, they've left their full time job or they came out of college and this is what they're doing. And so to take that away would be massively significant for thousands of people obviously and other businesses who might use it as a, as a marketing platform. So the hope would be that they are able to kind of thread the needle on doing a sale. Maybe we'll know by the time this episode comes out. Fingers crossed that it's successful and that all of our creator friends on TikTok can continue to create. So we could talk on and on about CPG products, the things you've learned, best practices for TikTok, best practices for Instagram. I feel like the great thing, like you said about doing what you're doing is you have the skills and expertise that you've learned over the last seven years and those can transport onto other platforms. Obviously it feels different when you have, you know, 3 million followers versus not having 3 million followers on another platform, but you can still accelerate that with the knowledge that you have. So, Donna, it's amazing what you've done. Continued success. If people want to follow along, they can do that on TikTok, if it still exists by the time this podcast comes out. But where are the other places that people can connect with you? And then we'll link to Homemade Ish as well.

Yeah. So Instagram, TikTok. I am a little bit on YouTube now, so all there. And then I have my websites, which I feel like, you know, just my name. Donnahassan.com and then homemadeish.com awesome.

Thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

Hey there. This is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team. Thank you so much for listening to that episode of the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. I wanted to take a minute and just ask that if you enjoyed this episode or any of our other many episodes of the Food Blogger Pro podcast, that you share means so much to us as a podcast. If you share episodes with your friends and family or if you are a food blogger or entrepreneur, if you could share them on social media or even in your email newsletters. It really helps us get the word out about our podcast and reach more listeners. Thanks again for listening. We really hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you back here next week.