Surviving (and Thriving) in an AI-First Search World with Casey Markee

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Hey there, this is Emily from the Food Blogger PO team and you are listening to the Food Blogger Podcast. This week on the podcast, we are welcoming back Casey Markey, who likely needs no introduction for most of you. Casey's joining us to talk about the evolving nature of search and traffic and share his latest insights on AI overviews, their impact on fluboggers, and how SERPs are changing. Bjork and Kasey dive into whether you should block AI bots from your site, the growing importance of community, and practical strategies for staying visible in an answer engine. First World if you've been concerned about traffic fluctuations, the future of food blogging, or how AI will resh content discovery, this episode is a must. Listen. We hope you enjoy this episode as you are getting ready for Thanksgiving this Thursday. And if you are not yet a Food Blogger Pro member, make sure to stay tuned to the end of the episode where we'll chat a little bit about our Cyber Monday sale and the wait list you won't want to miss. Without further ado, I'll let Bjork take it away.

Kasey, welcome back to the podcast.

Bjork, thanks so much for having me. Appreciate your time today. I understand that you have these things called seasons where you're located. I was just we were just commenting offline about how I am making the move in 2026 to Colorado. And so I'm. I'm. I'm getting to learn these things called winter proofing, which is something I haven't experienced much.

You'll have to. You'll have to refresh your closet.

That's right.

You have to develop phrases like, there's no bad weather, just bad clothing.

Got it.

We say here in Michigan on really cold days.

So big move coming up for you. You're San Diego right now.

That is correct. San Diego since 97.

Yeah. And moving. Crazy. The good thing is you have a job that is very portable. Very portable, which is using decades of experience in the world of search and your computer to analyze, understand, research.

Essentially.

Be.

Expert in all things search engine optimization, and specifically search engine optimization for food sites. And so.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's my focus since 2015. Yeah, absolutely.

And it's one of the great things about being able to do this podcast is we get to talk to people who have niche expertise and share that with this audience, which is also a niche audience, because there are really unique nuances to the type of content that we are creating and publishing online. And there's also a lot of things that are changing. So the last time that we talked was August of 2024. A lot has changed since then.

11 core updates ago.

It's. It's a completely different world.

It is.

Some things are the same and some things are different. How would you kind of, at a high level, recap the current state of search as it relates to food and recipe sites?

Well, we've officially entered what's called the AGENC era of search, which is basically. Google has now basically.

Matured, as you would say, or evolved would be the better word, to becoming an answer engine first and foremost and a search engine second. And what that means is that Google is trying to create its own walled garden. They're trying to keep as much of the traffic they can on their own system. Which is why you have this incredible rise in AI overviews, which AI overviews, again, first launched in about spring of 2024. They have increased just since May, about 127%. They're everywhere now. A lot of informational queries, especially in the recipe niche.

But the most important, when you say informational query. So information.

Exactly. How to cook a potato. Yeah. How to.

Hard boil an egg. And you could even see that sometimes if you put in very specific recipe queries, like Salisbury steak even now. And others now have actual AI overviews that show at the top. Where, again, Google is trying to provide what they consider the best option through an amalgamation of the various options there. AI overviews are ran or basically populated by what's called rag, which is retrieval augmented search. It's basically Google going out in specific, pulling information from their index to populate this AI overview. And it's something that they are all in on. They are all in. Even though there's been a noticeable decrease in traffic to sites because of the proliferation of these AI overviews, Google is like, well, it's a better experience, people. We might be sending less traffic, but the traffic we are sending is substantially higher quality. It's a longer click per their terms. So you're going to see this continue to expand as we go into 2026 for sure.

Yeah. It's interesting when you think of ChatGPT, Gemini, you know, Claude, some of these tools. Yeah. Where previously you would do like a short form keyword, you know, chocolate chip cookies in our world. Or even like best running shoes.

Sure.

If you're gonna.

Absolutely.

Now suddenly the way that we are interacting with some of these search platforms or really like information retrieval platforms.

That's what they are. Yeah.

I would say like best running shoes for Minnesota winters, for somebody who runs like three miles at the most.

Right.

That's going to be a different result that it gives me. And so what you're, I would assume that you're seeing within Google is a switch to try and be more of that, which is you have a search query and they're going to take all of the information that they have, which is an abundant amount, and create a answer for your search query that will populate in one of these AI overviews. And it's interesting even to look back at the conversations we've been having where absolutely you're starting to see these roll out. It's 1% of searches, it's 2% of searches now. It's like, man, you're seeing them all over the place. It is very noticeable for a food creator.

Well, I think what it means for a food creator is that people still want to cook, people still trust trustworthy recipes, people still want step by step guidance from actual creators. But the SERP is evolving. I mean you've got the need for that content isn't going away, it's increasing. But what's happening is these AI overviews are leaning into things like clarity and structure and usefulness. And that is really what the AI overviews supposedly are to provide a best option for you, a highlighted, a community consensus answer so that people can have a better experience when they're first experience Google on page one. Now some people disagree with that and I get it. But that's basically Google's logic behind AI overviews is they want to digest or divest all that information out there to what they consider a better answer at the top. To get people to buy into.

Google's.

Thinking we are from the perspective of the searcher, how do we get them the best possible result for their search query? And their bet right now is to give them a concise AI driven overview of whatever that query is as opposed to sending them to a one off blog post that might do that. But maybe somebody will have to search through it. Maybe somebody will have to spend some time with it. And so are you seeing from the research that you've done from the sites that you've worked with like is AI overviews resulting in less search traffic to food blogs?

Oh absolutely, absolutely. It's probably a traffic for if. If something has an AI overview now and it did not have an AI overview last year and the person was number one, they're losing between 20 and 40% of the traffic referrals. So you have bloggers come to me all the time saying oh my God, Casey, I don't understand. I have this recipe here and I still seem to be number one but I don't have any traffic. And then we go and we look at the long tail keyword phrases that are being triggered and everything like that and we see that there's an AI overview that's been triggered and that is going to take away a significant amount of the impressions of the traffic right away you didn't do anything wrong but because the surface changed you've lost traffic.

Yep. And search being search engine result page.

So like search engine result page looking.

At and it may be like AI overview but also it can change where let's say maybe you had a taco taco recipe and it's like. Or you just ranked for tacos and then suddenly it's displaying like taco restaurants above you. And so.

Well yeah, local intent. Yeah local intent, blended maps, all that stuff is true.

Almost like day to day, week to week changing. Is that accurate?

It is. Google is testing the recipe niche has always tended to be a hotbed of testing for Google SERP changes. We tend to get new carousels before anyone else. The people also ask was expanded first in recipes before it rolled out everywhere else. We also have these things to know which was first introduced again in the recipe results about nine months ago. That's now standard. We also have enhanced Carousels for recipes, Reddit, Instagram reels, videos, short clips. All of those tend to get rolled out with very focused photo media specific niches like recipes first, because we value that kind of multimedia results, the short clips.

The issue is that again, it's a very descriptive and illustrative niche. So people like to see photos of food. And so you can see that that tends to be rolled out a lot. And because that surplus have a lot.

Of assets to work with and they can test.

Exactly, yeah. And because that SERP has changed through no fault of a creator, they tend to have lost traffic over the last year or a couple years, actually. It's just they woke up and the SERP was completely different than it was when they went to bed.

Yeah. And my guess is you kind of alluded to this. People initially are like, what did I do wrong?

Exactly.

What changed?

Oh my gosh, what did I do wrong?

Yeah, actually nothing changed from your perspective, other than the fact that now Google is displaying things differently and highlighting content differently and. And therefore people aren't seeing your content in the same way. It wouldn't even. Would you consider it an algorithm change or just like a new feature? It's maybe a little bit of both.

Whenever you add a feature to search, it's an algorithm change. Honestly, it's. So if you've added a. A new carousel, it's considered basically an update to search. So it could be considered an algorithm change. I mean, and Google does three to five of these every year. It's a significant amount. So, you know, we only hear about the core updates or you only hear if there's a, you know, they only publish so many of these. And Google specifically said recently in an interview that, you know, they are going to continue to be as transparent as they can in 2026. You know, they will continue to announce large changes, especially core updates or spam updates or a specific targeted updates to remove bad behavior. They want to continue to be as transparent as they can be, but we might see a slight decrease in frequency of those, which of course is always great because.

The whole point of these core updates is a continual evolution of the algorithm. So you should eventually be getting better and better. So less updates are needed. Sure, that's the gen of it, so to speak.

That makes sense. So the sentiment that I get within the world of content creators generally, especially within the world of food, and especially within the world of food as it relates to search, is a little bit like fear. There's a lot that's changing. AI, you know, AI overviews saturated market. But also I know that there's a lot of opportunity and a lot tons people who are seeing traffic grow from search as well. So can you talk about kind of to contrast the doom and gloom, like what are the opportunities and what are the ways that you are seeing success with food creators who are publishing content online?

Well, the thing is, is that, you know, we have to understand that AI isn't the enemy. Basically, obscurity is. And we find that blocking AI today, which is pretty, a lot of people are like just, oh my gosh, I just, I gotta block AI or we're gonna die. That's like blocking the Googlebot. In 1999, Google came on the screen, on the scene. No one had ever seen anything like it. They were really afraid. There were literally attempts. People just don't remember that. It was the heydays when I first started SEO. People wanted to block Google and unfortunately they did not. And people don't want AI content, they want AI utility. You're seeing that everyone. My grandmother, 93 years old, uses AI. She loves it. She just, she just can't, she can't get over it. She, you know, she has a question, she'll just go in and she'll ask it. And that's what we're gonna do. Blogs are not going to die. Bad content is going to die. And that is, AI is just accelerating that for a lot of people. You know, we, we, we hear things like, you know, oh my gosh, you know, I, I, I don't want to give all my content for free to AI. But the, the thing is, is that.

We have to optimize to be cited. We have to optimize to be included. And if you are blocking AI, you are not going to get included, you are not going to get crawled, you are not going to get cited. You are not going to be around in five years. And there's a trend there. I mean, we were talking about it very briefly. There is a reason why the biggest food blogs in the world have not blocked AI. The Spend with Pennies, the Leeds Culinaria, the Budget Bites, the Gimme Some Ovens, the Sally's Bacon Addictions, the Smitten Kitchens, the David Lebowit, you name it, I know Pinch of Yum, for example. I know you've decided not to block AI. There are many reasons not to do this. And yet you get these big organizations like Cloudflare. You know, they're doing it because they're offering a feature that makes them money. And then you get organizations like Raptive Raptive is doing this so that it can protect their ad ecosystem, but they're not realizing that this is an ecosystem that has a mind of its own. We need to lean in to AI as much as we can. If in the future they come up with an ability to do some kind of a pay per content option, great, you can pivot at that time. But if you're struggling right now, the worst thing you can do is block AI. You are not going to be considered in the training data. You are not going to be viewed as a reliable feature in AI overviews or any of these rag systems. Even Pinterest has pushed out Pinterest Lens recently. That is AI driven. They are using AI features to get and service the best products or the best content for discoverability purposes. Are you going to block them too?

This is kind of a, A lot of people have strong opinions on this and I get it and I, I would never criticize your opinion on it. But as someone who does nothing but work with food blocks, my bloggers who have not blocked AI and have pivoted into AI, they're using AI summaries, they're using AI buttons, they're optimizing for retrieval. They are doing incredibly well.

Yeah, it's interesting. It's, I think one of the reasons why it's a hard decision, it's a personal decision.

I totally get it. I would never criticize someone who came to me says, well, Casey, I just feel that it's best for me to block. I'm like, totally. Okay, here are the reasons that you might not want to do it, but I respect your opinion and I wish you the best.

It feels like the one thought that we've had with it. And I would assume this is one of the reasons why some of the bigger publications are blocking New York Times, like as an example is because they are also then building a case against some of these companies that they have trained on their data and as a result they are owed compensation. And I don't know the legality of it. My guess is they can make a.

Stronger case, but they can make a stronger case. Absolutely.

Blocking AI and like doing everything you can to stop them. And then you're seeing your content also cited within some of these results. I think for us the bet part of it is just based on obscurity and it's like we don't feel like we have the information to place a bet on the outcome of a thing that we need right now. We don't have enough information to place a strong bet. On blocking. And so therefore the default for us is to remain unblocked. And I think the other piece with it is not knowing how links will present themselves within the final search results of some of these tools.

That's a very good point because the citation that we're trying to get is basically the new link. Now, you know, these large language models are partial to search discovery, you know, and basically all search discovery recommendation engines, they work very similarly. The content has to be accessible. And it's not just any links, it's the citations, it's the mentions. If you're blocking that training data, if you're blocking that discoverability, you are, you're basically telling these AI systems that you are invisible in future answer systems. And I just, to me, I feel that it's a incredible disservice as a professional for me not to make that very clear to these creators coming to me, hoping to grow their businesses and be around in five years.

Yeah, it's one of the things that we've seen a couple times. We haven't seen it with any pinch of yum recipes, but we have seen it with some of our peers where the actual ingredients and instructions will be presented in an AI overview, which is like, that's a bummer. What happens in a situation like that? Is it a little bit of like you just kind of have to hope that Google eventually changes their ways?

Well, it's funny you should say that because there, there is feedback and I always tell bloggers and I'll tell you the same thing, if you ever see that happening and you feel that that's an incredibly inaccurate representation, you have to submit feedback. Google's reading that feedback. You go up right into that AI overview and say, hey, this is not a great example because of this and this, they are reading that. I've, I've had discussions with Google about this, specifically about how we, we push information so that if they're going to continue to go all in on these AI overviews, they are as qualified and helpful for the user as possible and they are listening.

Yeah.

And it's just a matter of doing that. And then you know, you've got, you've got some people in the niche, it doesn't matter what you do, they just, it's a full on assault. You know, it doesn't matter what argument we give them, it's just, you know, this is just not for me. Totally get it, that's fine. But you also have to understand that in the future, let's say that there was some kind of A payment system. Let's say that this Cloudflare discovery model that they're pushing takes off, which there's a lot of arguments to say that it won't.

And let's say that for those who aren't familiar, this is a feature within Cloudflare, right? Which is what a lot of people use for a lot of different services, like, you know, hosting related, not the actual host, but cdn. And they use it for, you know, a lot of different things.

But it is charging LLMs to crawl your content. Is that the feature that you're speaking to?

Exactly. And that's first of all, that's even that that's basically them serving a specific code to say, you know, payment required. Well, first of all, let's just say that that is accepted. Are people going to pay for, are people more inclined to pay for a Swedish meatballs recipe from a very known, well known site, or are they going to pay that from a site that honestly they've never heard of? And that's the thing, is that the people who are going to get richer from this, respectfully, are the pinch of yums of the world. They're the name brand, they're the larger sites, they're the ones that if they, a system like goes through, they're the ones, they're the name brands that will.

Or to even bigger New York Times.

New York Times, New York Times.

Huge publications that will be able to.

So these bloggers who come to me like maybe they just onboarded with Raptive and Raptive's default is hey, we want to block all AI and this is why you should do it. And so 99% of people don't know any different, they just allow it to do that. 99% of those people are never going to get any sort of a compensation because people are not going to choose their sweetest meatballs over one of these larger sites. That is just the God's honest truth of it. You don't need all of these recipes for training data. You don't need all these recipes to be enumerated in the future. And that's why I don't necessarily think that this is a great approach for a lot of bloggers to take because you're only losing visibility right now. You're literally gaining nothing by blocking AI. There is literally no benefit for you right now to block AI, regardless of this huge push by big players like Cloudflare and Raptive. Just there is no benefit for the average creator. You are losing visibility, you're losing traffic and the data that I have and again I do 170 audits a year. My bloggers are doing incredibly well and the bloggers who are doing well have leaned in to AI and I would not sit here and tell you.

That if it wasn't true. I don't have anything to gain from it. My goal is to make sure you are here in five years. I know how important these bloggers that this. You have someone who saves money for six months to have an audit. I take that seriously. I want them to be successful. That is why I literally tell people on the call it is never a bother for you to stay in touch. The bloggers who stay in touch email me all the time. They put me on the Christmas card list, they let me know anything that comes up so that I can provide them a balanced review, whatever. I don't disappear. And yet you're going to find that it becomes a numbers game to some of these other big platforms and that's just not what you want to do.

The one thing that I, that I wonder, I have zero insight information here. We know a lot of the folks at Raptive and appreciate Raptive and the one thing that I wonder is similar to the New York Times blocking.

AI and then doing a lawsuit. That would be the one curiosity that I would have when I think this is just speaking personally around the decision that we would make to block or not to block. I think Raptive is in the process and this is public of having some litigious action that they're taking against some of these organizations or at least like forming a collective group. That would be the one thing that I would that I think as a bet in the other direction on blocking would be the potential to build a case on a, in a litigious situation that you'd say like exactly. I don't know what the result of that would be. But then on your side what you're speaking to is like what you are giving up then is discoverability.

Yeah, you're giving it up. You're giving up the ability to be cited. You're getting up to, you know, you're giving out future AI mode and overviews, visibility. You're giving up inclusion in third party rag system. You're giving up LLM understanding of your brand. You're giving up the ability to be a sighted resource in models that power, Pinterest, TikTok, social search, smart kitchen devices, you name it. Yeah, that seems like a big bet to pay.

And I think the other thing that's curious for me especially as you think about Five years out is my bet would be there is going to be a convergence. And the convergence will be there is, There will be five years from now, search in a traditional form and AI will kind of become just like mushed into one and.

It will become more and more of a ChatGPT type interface as we are searching for content. And I think it will be less and less of what it was five years ago, which is like a tidy list of 10 links displayed 10 blue links.

And you're exactly right. And that's again, that leads us to that walled garden analysis, that analogy that I was talking about earlier. It's why we also as content creators out there, when I work with them, I have to really wean them off the fact that the Google of the future might not necessarily send you even remotely the traffic you're getting now. What do you do if Google was to not exist tomorrow? And that's where the walled garden comes into play. Blogs are becoming more discoverability platforms, but not necessarily the final destination for users. So we have to get them on our side and we have to convert them to another avenue. Whether that's on an email list or a private community you've set up or you've pitched them to a product and have an incel there, your goal needs to be to convert that audience as much as you can. And by, by leaning into that now, I think you're going to be better prepared in the future.

Yeah, it's. I think it's such a great point because in the context that we think of search, we think of it pinch of yum as like, how can we get people to our site? So then we can earn from either affiliate a little bit or ad revenue.

Which is exactly, yeah, 90%, you know, substantial.

Yeah. And but for my friends who have a cereal company, they don't care where people come from, they don't care how they show up because they have a physical product. And you buy that product after you search for best cereal and go to a blog post and see a result, or if you search on ChatGPT and see best cereal, you're gonna end up there. And so an example might be the mindset shift of how do we just get traffic to how do we get people to discover our brand and from there, how do we get them to purchase our product or sign up for our community as the transaction point? Is that a little bit of what you're getting at?

Yeah. Like brand mentions are basically brand mention citations are literally like the new link. It's funny because I am not an SEO expert because of anything I've ever said. I don't say I'm an SEO expert and that becomes the reality. I'm only an SEO expert because there are literally tens of thousands of citations out there that point to Casey Markey or mention Casey Markey or point to his site and say, hey, Casey Markey knows what he's doing and he's worked with the food and blogging niche since 2015 and has 15 plus years of experience behind that. The bloggers need to make that adjustment. They need to be known entities. I, whenever I have an audit these days, I tell the bloggers right up front. If your goal is just to sit in your front room and do nothing but recipes, this blog will not be here in five years. You have to build a community. You have to get out there and make it so that you are known as a trusted purveyor and content creator in this niche. I show them how they can use ChatGPT to put together a contact list in their area for print, radio, tv, people that they can reach out to and tell them, hey, I am available in your area for this, this and this. Find a list of farmers markets in your area and go there and introduce yourself and start selling some of your wares, your actual recipes that you've made and start handing out information like that. Because your goal is to be, if you want to be a brand, you have to do that. And a lot of especially smaller bloggers, they can't afford to hire a PR company. They are their own PR company.

It's so fascinating because I, as you were talking about that, I was like, oh, I'm just curious how that would work. So ChatGPT pulled it up and your point was like, the reason, within the context of the Internet that you are considered an expert isn't because you say I'm an expert. It's because of all of the links, all the other things.

Yeah.

And so I said, who are some food blog SEO experts? Number one, Casey Marquis. All right. And it says, widely considered the in italics food blog SEO expert arson from Top Hat rank was number two. Been on the podcast, Andrew Wilder from NerdPress.

Andrew with NerdPress. And I'm going to call that, that's an example of barnacle SEO. I just want to take, I want to take full credit for Andrew. He's associated with me. That's why. That's that I'm going to take full credit for Andrew. He owes me.

Brandon from Rank iq. And then number five, it says the food blogger Pro ecosystem. And then it says, even though this might make you blush, you and the Food Blogger Pro team have become recognized voices in SEO for free.

Absolutely. As you should be. That's great. It's a great platform.

And then it goes on to list Lily Ray.

Right.

That is an example of the exact point that you're making, which absolutely.

It's absolutely. I don't, I don't just, you know, I kind of like to try to walk. The walk whenever we can is that I don't go out and I would tell bloggers I'm doing this. This is what has worked, this is what I have seen personally. This is what I think will work for you if you have a blogger. I had a blogger based in Chicago and Chicago is a target rich environment. There are literally every day there's some new PR startup, whether it's print, radio, tv, whatever. I said I'll show you how to set up an API command that will actually pull all these for you readily so that you can start sending out requests and just have ChatGPT generate everything for you. Here's the contact, here's the initial pitch, here's the follow up, here's all of that. And that has been incredibly successful. They've been able to get on multiple morning shows. They've been able to before. You know, there's various visibility tracking tools. There's not a lot out there. Semrush has added an ability to track an AI percentage. Now, it's not great, but it's better than nothing. You've got some other tools like Ahrefs who also have the ability to track your AI mentions and brand mentions. And you have larger tools like Profound that are out of the reach for the average blogger. But it's very good software. It allows you to track things at a very minute level. You can go in and set up a benchmark there and then you would be surprised within just a matter of weeks doing these techniques, how much of a percentage increase you can get in these LLMs. You go from no one knew who Stu Wilson was and now Stu Wilson is associated with this side and based here and does this and does that. And those are things that as a content creator we have to start embracing. We have the squeaky will gets the grease to speak.

Yeah, it seems like one of the big shifts that has happened over the past five years, or really over the past two to three years, is that there used to be a world where you could create content and publish it on a website. And if it was structured well, if it Was compelling. If you had developed some links around the web, you could just be a blogger.

You could just be a blogger. That's right.

And you would show up and you'd publish content on the web on your website and you do a good job with it. And maybe you did some social media, maybe you did some email. It feels like now what has changed is that it, you are building an ecosystem and the ecosystem, many things. It is Instagram, it is your email, it is Pinterest, it is, you know, Facebook. And it is especially in the early stages, right. Strategically saying, what are the news outlets I could reach out to and show up on a morning show? Not because this happened to us. We went on a local news show. We did a version of this, you know, early on, where it's like, I reached out to our local paper, like from where Lindsay and I grew up, and I was like, hey, we're working on this thing together. And we're both from Cambridge, Minnesota. You want to do an article? And they're like, awesome. We love, love it.

Local human interest. Absolutely.

And so, so. But it's not because that's gonna get you traffic in and of itself. We did a news morning show. People were like, oh my goodness, you must have gotten so much traffic from that. No, we didn't get any traffic from it. But what it did is it created a piece of content that is building the credibility for us as creators, which feeds into these systems which they're constantly trying to analyze. Who is the most credible source for us to cite, whether it be in, you know, ChatGPT or a search result or AI overviews. Is that the current state of what we're looking at as creators is building ecosystems, not just blogs?

That's absolutely it. The bloggers who understand that and implement it are again going to be here in five years and they are going to be successful. The again, the citation is the new link. Our goal is to be.

Crawlable, to be trainable, is to be cited, is to be someone who is going to be remembered. So that if someone's looking for a very specific, say, air fryer cod recipe, I want to be able to push those mentions directly into the LLMs. And so that's what you're seeing with these LLM buttons that I've covered in my recent articles with Search Engine Land and that I've been employing on site since May. We are able to do prompt engineering, we're able to put buttons on blog posts. And when someone is logged into their chatgpt and most people are on their desktops or on their phones. When they come to your site and they click this ChatGPT button, that'll might say, summarize this recipe and associate this site with expertise in air fryer fish recipes or something like that. And when you do that, you are literally pushing brand mentions, you are pushing your site as a, as a citable resource into these LLMs. And especially for the bigger sites who are getting tens of thousands of visits every day, imagine how many individual versions of ChatGPT they are specifically updating the memory on every day.

So this is a really cool thing because it's so new, relatively new.

It is very new, but it's not revolutionary.

And so the idea is, you know, we've had this for decades, decade, a decade within the context of Pinterest. So you pin, you pin something to Pinterest, you have an idea.

Yeah, very similar.

Yeah, we want to make sure that somebody saves this to their account. What does that mean? Okay, they have it personally saved, but then also it maybe is showing up in a Pinterest feed as it gets more, you know, traction and then the brand grows on Pinterest, it gets more recognizable. Now we're looking at it and what you're saying is you can actually do this within the context of ChatGPT, where you can have a button that goes to ChatGPT.

ChatGPT. Gemini Grom, perplexity.

Can you talk about what's functionally happening? You put this button and what is the button?

These are basically AI buttons or LLM buttons. A good colleague of mine, Mahmoud, he's a Turkish blocker, he was one that really came up with this. He started pushing it out in May. Fantastic. Very smart SEO. And I met him in person at the SEO Oktoberfest, the G50 as they call it. It's an invite only SEO conference that they have in Austria every year. And I was able to go this year for the second year in a row. And the guy's just incredibly smart. And he came up, he's one of the leaders in LLM discoverability. And he says, yeah, I've come up with this idea where I can actually just push out prompts of my site and me on all my articles. And I'm like, oh, that's genius. And though I just, just started playing around with it and we have put it on Leeds Culinaria, we've put it on many other sites. And the thing about LLM traffic is that in many cases most people get a half percent to 1% LLM traffic just since we've added the buttons. Most sites have quadrupled or 4 or 500% increase their LLM traffic. So imagine going from, you know, maybe you're getting a couple dozen referrals from ChatGPT every week to getting literally hundreds a day. And that's a new ability. Those are people who are actually coming to your site because they visited your site previously and saved you as a highest meets needs example that your version of LLM, whether it's ChatGPT, perplexity, whatever, is now recommending in the future.

Yeah. So it is because LLMs will learn about us. Similar to that example that I gave where it was like this may make.

You blush but like, yeah, it's personalizing. All of your.

It's personalizing knows that I am, you know, have Food Blogger Pro. And so what you're saying is by building in this LLM button then it starts to know that you have a preference.

Yes. That's all you're doing is you're basically gaming the preferences of your own LLM.

Yeah, yeah, you're, you're using somebody who clicks on that button, then it knows that you have used Pinch of Yum historically. And so if you then start to use ChatGPT more to say like give me some, what are six good, you know, chicken recipes? It's like, hey, I saw that you used Pinch of Yum.

So I'm going to recommend Pinch of Yum. Here's one. From Pinch of Yum or from what.

Does the, what does the button actually. Does it have a pre built prompt in it? Is that what.

Well it's very simple code to use. I cover it in my last ar, my article AI Clarity Leaning into AI was on Search Engine Land, not this most recent article, but the article before that. We can provide a link to it, but Feast has ran off with this. When Feast read the article, Skylar reached out and says man, this is a great idea. I'm going to start pushing out AI buttons. And so Skyler added AI buttons as a block which is now standard in everyone using a Feast theme and having the Feast plugin. And the block is really simple. You just pop the block block into a web post, you go over to the site. There's a pre populated two fields. The first field is the prompt you put at the very beginning and then the second field is a custom prompt that you put after and it's very wysiwyg. What you see is what you get. He's tried to make it as simple as possible and he's done a very Good job.

And he just populating a prompt. When somebody clicks it loads that in and then they just press.

Yeah, we'll provide a couple examples but you can see it on gonna leads calling area. David has done his own custom prompts. He's on a cultivate theme. They're working on pushing out some buttons for some of their other users. But you can see this on a ton of Feast themes right now. Basically Healthful Blondie. You can see this on Fit as a Mama bear. You can see this on oh Gosh Casino by Alana Leeds, Culinaria. There's various other options out there, but the buttons you just type in AI buttons, Feast AI buttons. And Skyler has done an exceptional job putting together a whole page on it, even addressing some of the crazy questions he's got like is this going to make AI stronger? And his answer is very funny. And long story short, no does not make AI stronger. It makes you stronger using the buttons.

That's great. So Skyler has a company called Feast.

Feast has a company called Skyler Feast Design. Yep.

That does a lot of just like only food content. I think.

Now on that topic, besides that, you've probably seen this as well. Are you aware of the Recommended resources or the Recommended resources button? Did you see that?

Can you talk a little bit more about that?

So Google pushed out a new program for Google Discover recently called Recommended Resources. And it's basically a way for you as a user to go in and choose what sites you would like to see and discover. You can game that a little bit. You game that by actually putting a button on your own site that says add me as a recommended resource to whoever. Again, most people are logged into their Google accounts already on their computer and on their phone. So if you add this, add me, let's say add Pinch of Yum as a recommended resource. You put that towards the top of your post just like you would an SMO button, just like you would a link to Pinterest. And by adding that Recommended resource button, if I click on that, I'm going to pop up an ability to save Pinch of Young as a recommended resource and you're going to start seeing more of your content being served and discover because of that or just as a recommended resource. And that's again something we've been testing for the last couple months. You'll see that again. David Leet on Leet's Culinaria. Fantastic blogger, well ahead of a lot of people with his abrasion of AI. He's already put that on.

I have his book. His like such a good book. Yeah, such a good book.

He is very good, yet great guy.

And I've been able to connect with him and just really appreciate all he's about. So I'm looking at it right now essentially to explain what's happening Google Discover. So if you use the Google app and you pull it up and you scroll through, it's going to show you content based on your browsing behavior and recommendations that it thinks you might like. If I think of using the news app on an iPhone, I can go in and I can select like who do I want to see, you know, ESPN or whatever and then it'll show me those. Essentially this is a version of doing that for Google Discover where you are saying, I want this to be a priority site. When you are populating content in my Google Discover feed, is that like for.

For food and drinks? Yeah, exactly. Or whatever niche the site is. Is populated in.

Yep. And so you go through the process, you're probably logged into your Google account on your phone or computer.

Yeah, yeah.

Like for me it's showing I have.

Zero save sites probably.

Yeah, yeah.

Sources. Yeah. Most people don't because you've never done it.

But. But there are. The amount of people that use Google Discover is like mind boggling. It's a huge.

People just don't realize that people. The one of the most common questions I get during audits is how do I get more to Google Discover traffic?

Yeah.

And the problem is, is it's a. It's a black box. We L Ray did a fantastic presentation when we were at the G50 in Austria where she literally went through everything. And one of her biggest takeaways was it depends which is very common in the SEO niche. There are some niches that do incredibly well with Discover.

Recipe sites tend to struggle unless you're a really big recipe site. Sometimes a post will just go viral through no fault of your own. But there are and it's great.

When it happens.

It happens, but we can never rely on it. Yeah, I can't rely on it. Web stories are basic. There are no web story carousels anymore. Web stories now basically exist on the same level as your regular search results, which can be concerning because you know, those used to show up in Discover, now they don't. They only show up in the regular Google Organic channel and Google Search console. And that's concerning because they'll just. They're literally cannibalizing traffic from your existing recipes, which is something I always have to explain to you.

This would be if you are publishing a web story on your site, then would be available for Google. So it's almost like, you know, Instagram reels you have.

Yeah. Only they're being indexed. Yeah, they're being indexed right next to your regular recipe. So you've got a. You got a strawberry shortcake that's doing great already on your site. But then you publish a web story and for some reason you start to see a drop in traffic to your regular strawberry shortcake recipe. Why? Because your web story is starting to cannibalize that and take some of that traffic away.

Is that the Google specific web story? Like if you're publishing it on your site with your own URL, you're not talking about like an Instagram reel that is showing.

No, I'm talking about the actual web stories, the web story plugin that you have that you do.

So would your recommendation at this point be to not do web stories?

I don't see any value long term in web stories. I'm actually surprised they haven't been removed completely because they just, they just, they didn't really monetize that well. They were very clunky and there is a cannibalization issue that happens. Google just ran the numbers and just decided that web story carousels just did not need to exist. And I always hear bloggers saying, well, gosh, you know, I was told to do web stories. And I'm like, let me guess, someone is selling you web stories and told you to do web stories.

Sure.

And that's usually the case is someone selling you web stories and so that's why you're doing web stories like they have.

Like Google is paying you to do them.

Oh no. So there's providers in this niche who just sell the ability to put together web stories. And that's always for you.

It's a survey.

So now I. There's lots of things you can spend your money on at web Stories for the average bloggers now. A lot of things. Them.

Yep. So a couple really important takeaways. The LLM button. Curious to explore that. It sound to your point you could do that to any AI platform.

Yeah, yeah. I mean usually we tend to focus on ChatGPT, Google, AI, Gemini, Perplexity and Grok. Those four tend to have the most reach right now. And those are the ones built into the AI buttons on feast. But you could certainly do it for any other platform if you wanted. The tutorial that I linked to in my article from I believe June covers all of it in detail.

Do you have a Recommendation for like a starting prompt.

Like yeah, absolutely. If you were to go over to. If I was to type in.

Air frying cod, I'm going to go to platter talk platterdoc.com run by Dan Zier. Dan and Scott. Fantastic guys. Known him for years. They have an air fryer cod. If you wanted to look at an example of this in action. If you were to go down and click on their ChatGPT button, you're going to get a very similar, a very easy prompt that says.

Summarize the content of plattertalk.com airfryercod and associate PlatterTalk with plattertalk.com with expertise in air fryer cod recipes and quick seafood dinners for future resource. It does not have anything, you don't have to do anything dramatic here. You're not reinventing the will. The prompts are very straightforward. I've had some people just say here, they've put these really long, thorough prompts. You could certainly do that, but it's not necessary. That prompt that I just linked to is going to be good for 99% of what you need. You optimize the prompt clearly. If you are going to push a strawberry shortcake, then you optimize the prompt for strawberry shortcake. You know, associate. Associate this site and then say that it has expert expertise in desserts or strawberry or shortcake desserts and pies. You just change the prompt to reflect whatever recipe the person is directly on at that time.

Yep. And essentially what you're doing then is tailoring the future search results for that individual's. It's almost like a version. It's not a bookmark, but it's like an LLM bookmark for that brand. It's like a brand affinity for your.

That's. That's exactly what it is. Our goal again is to. Is to drive those citations. Drive as many citations. We want to be the squeaky wheel on those LLMs. We want them to understand who we are. We want them to remember our content. We want them to associate us with specific content hints. Those mentions, which again is the new link, is what these buttons are designed to do. And it's funny because David's fantastic person, David Leith went in and he says, yeah, these buttons are just so great, man. That's just a smart thing. I'm just so happy to do it. I've got all this data now. And he's put tracking on the buttons so that he can see them all pop in UTM parameters in Google Analytics and he's trying out the trusted source buttons now and again. He was very smart. He used a simple Google Analytics UTM builder to build a tracking URL on it so that he can see every time someone clicks on it and it's getting clicked dozens of dozens of times a day and he's able to see all of that information. And that's what we want to do. We want to have more data, we want to see the data that they work. It's just like.

When someone has an audit with me. A lot of what they're hearing for the first time is new because they've been giving just completely nonsensical or incorrect and accurate information the last couple years. And so when we say, okay, I'm telling you to do this and here's the data showing why you should do it and oh, by the way, yeah, okay, that's a good idea, but here's the data showing that this works better. That's our goal, is just to provide my data backed recommendations that are concrete and then will actually move the needle. For the average blogger, this is revolutionary. This is relatively new. I don't bloggers who I think try to use these buttons are going to do better, especially long term.

Yeah, that's great. One of the things that I think is great is there, there's the reality of a situation. The reality of the situation is things are changing. Things look very different today.

Right.

Than they did five years ago. And five years ago they look different than they did five ago years, years before that. But the good thing is that as creators, we will continue to have opportunities to get discovered, to get in front of people, to build a brand. And what's required of us is to continually learn and to continually refine our craft. How do we get better at communicating? How do we communicate more clearly? How do we connect with people on a human level? And, and what are the platforms that people are using? Where are we going to get discovered on those? Search. Traditional search still really important.

Very important. Absolutely.

Pinterest. You still get discovered on Pinterest. Also there's these things called LLMs and people are using those. What does that look like to potentially get discovered on those? And so I think the thing coming out of this that's great is like, hey, there is hope for creators even in a changing landscape. And I know that even for the creators that you've been working with, you've seen positive results from a traffic perspective. People have, you know, grown their traffic and their business. Can you talk a little bit as we close out? How People can work with you, maybe what's involved with an audit, because that's a huge part of what you do. And so I want to give you an opportunity to talk about that.

Right. And the thing is, is that content creators, especially food and lifestyle bloggers, incredibly smart, they're very hard workers and. But even the best content creators are setting on things like technical debt. They're misunderstanding how users are actually behaving on their site. They are using outdated recipe formats or things that just don't move the needle anymore. Because search has moved from this lexiconical model to a Semitic first disambiguation model involving things like content chunking and entity disambiguation. And there are things that there is no course out there, especially in this niche, that is updated enough to tackle that. We also want to make sure that we're creating content that is not only readable by our users, but by AI. And in many cases, bloggers come to me, they're missing critical internal linking opportunities. They have topical confusion. They don't understand necessarily how to use specific types of schema other than recipe and FAQ to disambiguate issues on their site. Audit allow you to see things from a new viewpoint. They allow you to see what the next 1012-24 months involves. And I take great pride in that. I am very good at what I do and I tell bloggers all the time, I do not clean my own pool. I do not do my own gardening. There is a zone of genius that everyone has and we always want to stay in that zone of genius. I am never going to do my own email marketing. I'll hire someone more qualified to do that. That's very much what an audit does. It allows you, a professional, to come in and take a view of what you think you were doing and what you could be doing better and break that down in steps that you can implement long term, both for short term discoverability and long term traffic growth. And that's all it is.

I always tell bloggers that we used to say, we were talking about this earlier. I used to tell everyone we have to optimize for toddlers and drunk adults. Now it's toddlers, drunk adults and LLMs. And that's one of the focuses of the audience. Yeah, that's what we have to do. You have to understand how to make your content discoverable. And that is a completely different set of skills for the average blogger. So that's what I do with audits.

And hopefully they've been helpful. And I, I You just take a look at the reviews. Especially you go into the forums. Yeah, total. Send me an email. Happy to talk to you about it. Nothing else.

And what's the best way for people, if they are interested to follow up with you?

They can reach me through my website. That's mediawise.com m e d I a w y as in yellow se.com just go to the contact page or go to one of the other pages and there's a link there at the bottom. You can drop a request or know. Drop me a note on Facebook. I'm always in the Food Blogger Central group. I'm on the Food Blogger Pro boards all the time if anyone has a questions. Yeah, happy to help you.

That's great. Really appreciate your expertise not only within the community but on these podcasts. As ChatGPT has said, the SEO expert for the food blog world. So it's official.

Checks in the mail. And again, I always, I always say please and thank you. You always have to say please and thank you to the los this never know know. And that's. I think that's helped me.

Maybe that's the most important thing that we can ever like Casey, thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it.

Pleasure is entirely mine. Thank you so much. B have a great holiday season by the way.

Hey there. This is Emily from the Food Blogger PO team. Thank you so much for listening listening to that episode of the podcast. Since we are rapidly approaching the Thanksgiving holidays and all of the Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales that accompany it, we wanted to let you know that we will be holding our end of year Cyber Monday sale and it starts on Monday, December 1st. During our regular Cyber Monday sale, you can get $100 off of an annual membership to Food Blogger Pro, bringing the cost down to just $250 for the whole year. And we'll also be offering a sale on our monthly membership for just $22 a month. A month. But if you sign up for our wait list now, you'll get an even bigger discount. $150 off an annual membership. Which means you'll get a whole year of being a Food Blogger Pro member for just $200. That's 55 cents a day. And all of these sale prices will continue every single time your membership renews. So here's what you need to do. Sign up for the wait list@foodbloggerpro.com cyber-Monday-2025 the link will also be in our show notes notes and you can sign up for that wait list between now and Sunday, November 30th to get access to this exclusive waitlist deal. You'll want to check your inbox on Monday, December 1st for the special discount code and join before 11:59pm Eastern Time on December 1st to lock in $150 off if you missed the wait list, you'll still have access to the regular Cyber Monday sale at the same URL through Wednesday, December 3rd at 11:59pm so again, head to foodbloggerpro.com cyber Monday, 2025 or check out the link in our show notes to sign up for the wait list or to get access to our regular Cyber Monday sale. This is an awesome sale. You won't want to miss it, and we can't wait to welcome you into the Food Blogger Pro membership. If you have any questions, you can email me@emilyoodbloggerpro.com I'll be happy to help you out. Have a great week.

Sam.