The Modern Revenue Model, With Luigi Prestinenzi

The CRO Spotlight Podcast, powered by the Sales IQ Network. Hi, and welcome to the CRO Spotlight Podcast. I'm Warren Zenna from the CRO Collective and I'm here with my co host, Lupe Feld. Hey, Lupe.

Hey, Warren. This is Lupe Feld and I'm glad to be here with you.

So this podcast is really for aspiring CROs and CEOs and current CROs whom are interested in learning from not only us, but the great guests that we're going to have.

We're here to tell you that there is other areas of the business that can drive revenue, and we're going to look and inspect and come up with some great ideas for us to bring in as much revenue as we can and drive some meaningful change for the business.

So tune in. We have some exciting opportunities coming up for really amazing conversations and any B2B leaders. I think you're really going to enjoy it. So thanks for tuning in and we look forward to seeing you. Okay, well, welcome to the first episode of the CRO Spotlight Podcast. I'm really. I can't tell you how excited I am. I've been trying to get a podcast going now for a while, and I'm more excited about it because Lupe Feld has agreed to be a partner with me on these. And, Lupe, I'm really excited to have you on here. Our initial interview kind of prompted me to say, you know, this would be a great combination. So thank you.

Likewise. You know, I think it's. It's exciting for me because as I think back into you, kind of my background, I never really had the access to the content that's available now. And as you think about, you know, how do you make yourself better? It's usually, you know, in the past it had been through mentors and, you know, the world had kind of changed. And now to have access to virtual mentors and some of the amazing guests that we're going to have on the show is really going to be, you know, a very efficient way of gaining knowledge and putting things into practice. So I'm excited about that.

The world has gotten flatter, hasn't it? Right? Like, it's true. I mean, if you think about a podcast that might have been done maybe even three years ago, it would have been in a studio. You have to book the guest, they have to fly in. I mean, I know people dial in, but now everyone's so amenable to this sort of thing that the list of people that we have who want to speak to us on this podcast is really great. So let's. Let's talk a bit about just why we're doing this. Right. So we're working with SalesIQ, which is an amazing sales training and sales enablement organization. And the CRO Collective has worked out an arrangement where Sales IQ and the CRO Collective are going to work together towards supporting Chief Revenue Officers and such and those. We'll talk a bit more about that. But the reason this came about was I interviewed you, Lupe, on a interview that I had for the CRO Collective, and I just loved the conversation. I had a lot of them, by the way. I probably had, I'd say, 10 or 15 different conversations, but when I stopped with you, I remember when I. When I finished that particular conversation, I thought, wow, that was great. She's so smart. It was just a really great conversation. And so I spoke to Luigi and I said, who is the founder and CEO of Sales iq? You know, if we're going to do a podcast, wouldn't it be great if we had two people do it? Because it's always the same thing. It's always one person sort of talking. And I'd like to talk to Lupe about this. And he was 100% excited about it. And so Lupe and I, we've been talking. What are we doing here?

Right.

So maybe you can give a little background, Lupe, on, like, how you've recently made a little bit of a transition so we can understand. Because, remember, I'm supporting Chief Revenue Officers, and the reason I had you on was because at the time, you were one. So give a little bit just so people understand the journey you're on and how we sort of connected on this and maybe some thoughts you have on the kind of things that you and I can discuss for the people that we're speaking to on this podcast.

Sure. As I think back on my career, revenue has been at the core of everything that I've done, even my new transition into Chief Strategy Officer for the business. I'm focused on, you know, a lot of strategic projects, whether it's acquisitions, mergers, new product launches, how we are positioning ourselves to the outside world from a marketing or social media standpoint. So I still retain some of the revenue components, but it was a time for the business to really separate the strategic components from the revenue components. And so we do still have a Chief Revenue officer. And as I've moved into this role, you know, it's. It kind of adds a little bit more perspective, you know, to the importance of revenue and the synergies that happen within the business.

Got it. So you made a transition from Chief Revenue Officer to Chief Strategy Officer, and we'll talk about that a bit. But the original intent and the actual intent of this program, it's really designed to focus on Chief Revenue Officers more contextually and revenue leadership. And the audience is really going to be sales leaders who are looking to become Chief Revenue Officers, existing Chief Revenue Officers who are in the job and looking for insights from CEOs and CROs, and even CEOs who are hiring Chief Revenue officers or currently supporting a Chief Revenue Officer and have a interest in understanding the way their revenue operations need to be run in kind of a modern context. Right. And you and I both have very similar opinions about the role itself of a Chief Revenue Officer and how it's sort of.

It's.

It's changed so much over the last five years and how it needs to sort of be given a different new focus. And all of the strategic components of that role have become so complex and there's just so much to talk about that. This topic is one that I'm getting a lot of traction in my own business. But I think there's a lot of people who are really interested in hearing more about either I want to become a Chief Revenue Officer one day or I'm in the role, or I'm going to hire one. And how do revenue functions work today, given how things have evolved? So I'm excited about that. And you and I have talked many times how much different aspects this we want to share with people. And the other thing is that most of our shows will include a third party, like a guest, whether it be a Chief Revenue officer or a revenue leader or a CEO who will weigh in on their own experiences. So, that being said, Luigi, as I mentioned, is the CEO and founder of SalesIQ, which is a sales enablement company based in Australia. Luigi Prestinenzi. Okay. He is an incredible, disciplined worker. He is someone who I am so impressed with the amazing amount of content that he puts out. If anyone follows Luigi on LinkedIn, you should see the really amazing depth and detail that he does. He also runs his own podcast and his company really just. It makes the world a better place by helping sales teams be the best they can be. And that's what they focus on, sales enablement, sales training. So I'm going to let them in right now and let him speak a bit about it. Luigi, welcome to the show and we're really glad to have you here. I want to thank you too for just creating this whole platform for this to happen.

Well, Warren Lupe, really excited. I've never been the inaugural guest on a podcast, so I'm pretty excited. I'm feeling pretty pumped right now to be here.

All right, great.

So why don't you tell audience a little bit about, you know, you and your background and your company and share a little bit about what you're up to right now.

Yeah.

So look, a bit about me. I'm about to hit 40 in April, so I've been really reflecting these past few months about, you know, have I achieved what I expected to achieve by the age of 40? But look, I'm a career sales professional. I've been doing this where for over 20, nearly 23 years.

Right.

It was, it was the first job that I had at a school. I was pretty fortunate to find myself in a sales position because school wasn't for me. I really struggled through school and really, you know, learning in that environment. But I fell in love with sales from the moment I saw it. And I was quite fortunate to see sales with my mum growing up, you know, sort of seven and eight. My mum was incredible working for a company called Mary Kay and she was very good, like top three in Australia. And what I saw my mum do was just amazing. But I saw the highs and the lows of it. I saw mum at the top and then I saw a crash and burn, like complete burnout. Crashed hospital. And so I saw that, you know what, there is a risk associated with any kind of high performance role. But look again. Career sales professional. Worked on various deals sizes in consumer and business and worked my way up from a point of selling deals to managing omnichannels across kiosks, call centers and business developers. So that omnichannel management was an incredible experience for me as well. And I've also been thrown into heads of marketing roles at some points in my career as well. So I got to see the other aspect of, of the, you know, the marketing funnel. But I've essentially spent a lot of my career also selling in education and that's where my sort of business sales IQ was born from. Because love sales and I love education and I think when you bring them all together, it's a quite a powerful mix. So our profession as a sales profession, as you guys know, there's still a lot of work to do. No matter how much work we put in place, there is still a massive trust gap between buyers and sellers. And I think that has a lot to do with the way in which we behave as a profession and the way we go to market. And so I think there's a great opportunity to continue to elevate our profession. And that's what sales IQ is all about, about enabling sales professionals to be the best they can be. So that's a journey I'm on, guys, and really, really enjoying the journey. I still carry a quota. I'm still out there selling every single day. And I don't ever want that to change. So I can't be in a position of coaching and mentoring salespeople if I'm not doing the same stuff that I'm asking them to kind of do. So I'm trialing new techniques, I'm trialing new technology as it comes, and I'm really challenging myself and pushing myself outside my comfort zone all the time.

Great stuff. Well, thanks for that background. Luke and I were talking before you joined about the role of a Chief Revenue officer. Its complexity, the way that it's sort of, I guess, grown and evolved over the last four or five years. And one thing we wanted to kind of get your perspective on was how you see sales, the sales function, right. From your perspective, how it fits into the Chief Revenue officer function and how, let's say from both the perspective of a sales leader and the chief revenue officer. There's a lot of confusion in the marketplace right now, as you know, because we've had this conversation dozens of times, that a CRO is nothing more than just a sales leader. And I'm curious to know what your perspective is on that and how you see that distinction and what your perspective is on how a sales leader should be looking at that role.

Yeah, I think it definitely goes way, way beyond just the element of sales.

Right.

Like, and I think this is the, this is the risk a lot of companies create for themselves when they just get a really good sales letter and say, right, you're now chief Revenue officer and it's happening all the time. We're seeing this all the time.

Right.

And all they do is kind of continue to lead the team. They continue to go into deals and deal management. And they're not thinking of the broader mix.

Right.

They're not thinking about, well, how does marketing integrate with this, how are they working together, how we breaking down the silos between marketing, sales and customer success and even operation and product development. And that's the whole premise that I see, that the CRO is all about just going. It's pulling itself completely out of the day to day nuances that are occurring and really thinking about how do I get Alignment across each areas. Absolutely. They need an understanding of what each area of the business does. I think they need to have that high level. But more importantly, they need to know how do they empower and find the right people that have the expertise in those areas and then work with them to achieve a common objective. And that's what I fundamentally see the CRO role. And again, what I see a little bit different is CROs need to really have a bit more of a lens around and they've got to be. Look, because sales has become a very, very, very data driven, you know, organization. Like when I first started in sales, yeah, you kind of knew numbers, but yeah, you didn't really have to know any of the stuff that you have. Like, you know, technology wasn't really in place. We didn't really have CRM, we didn't have data enrichment tools. I think about the evolution our industry's gone through over the past 20 years now. Data is a very important.

Do you think that that's made it better or worse?

I think. What, technology or data?

Yeah, both.

Look, I think I'm going to take this back from an enablement perspective and I'd love to hear Lupe's thoughts on this.

Right.

But I was just, I just got off a call this morning. I was training 40 SDRs new, new SDRs. They've just gone through, they're going through a bootcamp for their company. And I don't know about you remember when we started working in sales and I sound bloody old here, but, well.

I'm older than you, so it's okay. You're, you're a child compared to me, so don't worry about it, go for it.

But we didn't have like, we didn't have the ability to find a person's mobile number, go to LinkedIn, click a button and get all the information about them. We'd have to actually go out there, connect with people, network, go to places, door, knock, look at, you know, I'd go to a meeting and go, what are the other companies in the street? Do them, okay, I gotta write them down and I've got to go back and do some research and I'll talk to my network. Do you know anyone there? Et cetera, et cetera. That level of curiosity, right. The research that you do, I used to, you know, uncover a rock. It's not there. Go back and you persevere. And I think what technology's done, it's great, it makes those things available to you, but it's limiting our ability to Be naturally curious. And great selling is all about being naturally curious. And in anything marketing in data, you've got to be curious, you've got to be asking questions. Okay, is the data actually correct?

Right.

What's the data not telling us?

Yeah, no, absolutely. And as I think about one other thing that technology has done is it's given us access to, to all of this information. But in addition to, you know, kind of silencing the curiosity, it also has eliminated, you know, something that I think is critical in sales and it's earning the right to proceed, gaining that trust. And you know, so often, I mean, I think we're all subject to this. You'll get a request for someone to connect on LinkedIn and you know, for whatever reason they catch you in the right mood and, and you click yes. And immediately following is that dreaded, you know, pitch. Without knowing anything about your business, probably not even really looking at your entire profile and background, not trying to find, you know, that trust building connection, that curiosity of, okay, you've worked at these three companies, this one was really good at what we do, and now you work at a company and I need to understand how you excel or differ from your background and experience. And I think technology has, has made us a bit lazy. And I think there's a great opportunity to continue to take the old and the new and create the brand new. And that is what, you know, how things evolve. You know, I, I always think of, you know, like growing up, I was born in Latin America, grew up in the us, moved to Canada, worked in Canada, and now I'm back in the US in a different state than, you know, where I originally moved to. And one of the things that I always think about, you know, I'm Hispanic, my mother is Italian, so I have a kind of a mixed background. And what I've done through my life is take pieces of the things that I like from all the components of where I lived and you know, how I've come to be and made kind of a better version of myself. And I think technology gives you all the pieces, but you still have to do the work. And I think that's what's missing now.

Yeah, and I absolutely agree with you. And I think, and again, you know, I see these, these poor practices from, from many organizations that are using sales engagement tools, which are great, sequencing tools are fantastic, but they're not giving any thought about the icp, the buy Persona, the messaging. They're just thinking, I'll just get the data, pop it in, it's going to be going on autopilot and bang, I'm going to get the end result. And again, I just think we're as amazing as technology is, it is also creating some barriers. And this is the role of the CRO to really look at this from an ORG perspective and say, how can we optimize this? How can we make some changes?

How can we humanize it? I see that as being a big issue. This is a great topic because what I'm seeing is happening right now is these. Look, the proliferation of these tools isn't by accident. It's happening because at the highest levels, these organizations want to speed up the process to get in front of customers. They want scale almost at all costs. Right. And any way they can remove any friction from getting data in front of their salespeople to make as many calls as possible and target people with the right sequences, they'll do it.

Right.

I think we all know, because we're all doing this for a living. And anyone that is on LinkedIn or anything understands too, the unintended consequences of this is that it's just too easy to reach people. It's too easy to get in front of somebody. You know, there's so many ways in which customers are being barraged by different channels because of these tools that we've sort of created white noise that customers don't listen at all anymore. And I think as a result, it makes curiosity even more important because it's the curious salesperson that does that kind of work stands out in ways that the automated salesperson does not. And I think to your point, the CRO, you know, this is a tough job for a chief Revenue officer because bringing this type of disruptive conversation to a CEO who is beholden to the board that loves all this technology and wants all this scale, that's a difficult conversation to have with an executive about changing the way they approach the marketplace. And I think that the CROs that succeed have the ability to change the way that the organization thinks about revenue growth and revenue generation. And I think this is an important component to successful organizations from a CRO perspective.

Absolutely. And I think there's. There's so many fundamental elements that make up a really good revenue Org and they've all got to be in sync and aligned.

Right.

Like, if we think about the enablement piece, like we know now sales is going through a real growth curve in the U.S. i think the last time I was doing looking at this, there was something like 900,000 open roles for sales in the US VC funds. We're seeing it all the time. Series a, series B, 100 mil, 200 mil, series F, 500. And they're hiring like crazy. They're hiring SDRs like mad, right? And a week boot camp. And they're reading on the phone like, I've been doing this for over 20 years and I'm still making mistakes. Like, I've still got learning, I still need coaching. And we're seeing these, you know, coaching. What is it? Average person gets one coaching session, weeks. How's that moving the needle in a positive direction?

Right?

So I just think there's all these things. So with growth, with fast scale growth and expect the growth from organizations that are getting funding, there's something fundamentally that's getting missed. And again, the CRO obviously is in a very tough position because they're tasked with growing that role. And you guys know this more than anyone. They're tasked with actually growing and achieving this objective. And they've got to do it knowing that, you know what, I'm going to have to induct people fast. There's a risk they're not going to work. They're probably factoring attrition. They're looking, well, we're going to build this into our model, which again is. You kind of look at that and go, well, is that the right do? Like factoring in failure into a system? Like if you looked at the continuous improvement model or a lean manufacturing model, right. In a factory, yes, they're probably factoring some form of attrition. But isn't the premise of continuous improvement model to try to eliminate as much as possible? So I just think, and this has been, I think this is really interesting because I think the CRO role kind of is coming to play. It's like somebody managing a manufacturing business, right?

Exactly. I think it's either managing a manufacturing business or it's like managing a hedge fund.

Right.

Because you got a financial component too. Right. You have to modulate how you yield on investments and what investments you make. And there's similar dynamics. It's almost sort of like running a financial system and running a manufacturing facility that has different functions. Like someone makes the plastic, someone makes the packaging, someone does distribution. So there is an interesting perspective on it. And again, what Lupe and I were talking about earlier is sales leaders that come out of a sales leadership role. If they're not given that opportunity, what ends up happening is they end up just kind of becoming glorified sales leaders with a CRO title and they don't get the chance to actually have that kind of breadth and scope over how the business is being run. And it takes a very specific type of person to be able to do that and understand how to do that.

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it has to be a strategic decision to make some real changes in the auction in order to enable the CRO to be successful.

Right.

Like, you know, there has to be backing from the CEO, there has to be backing from the other members of the executive executive committee because it is a, it's not just a sales role. It's not just let's put the forecast up and see what's coming. There's so many other elements that make up a successful CRO.

1%.

Yeah.

You and I talk about something which relates to this and that is that most of the focus that you and I have had for a while has been on technology companies where the elements and things we're talking about tend to be more prevalent because they're high scale SaaS model businesses. It's the traditional businesses that if they adopted these types of the philosophies that we're talking about, they could have an incredible opportunity to revamp the way they go to market. And I think that's an opportunity to take I'd say modernized SaaS based learning models or sales models or revenue models into traditional companies is a big opportunity for companies that are in manufacturing or other traditional businesses that can start thinking this way. And I don't know if that's happened yet. What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, and I mean, I think Lupe, you've probably seen this as well across some of your clients. But I've definitely seen Covid or this pandemic has really put a spotlight on traditional sales orgs, you know, big territory based sales companies that have infield sellers, cars, mobile phones, expense accounts to take the clients out for lunch. What happened? They were all brought in, I mean I shouldn't say, but the coffee and donut sales people. Yeah, the professional visitors. And I've got this with a client of mine, you know, they've got 250 sellers that are in field do about a billion dollars in revenue. And that was a question they asked. They said to me, they said, you know what we've seen, We've seen our whole, our whole field force has been brought inside. We've been able to service the clients in a way that they've actually bought more from us and we haven't gone to visit them. The question is, can we cut a hundred people? And I know it sounds pretty brutal, but they Said, can we cut 100 people from the sales org, move the other 150 into an inside role and then employ specialist sales technicians, you know, people that have specialist understanding of certain products with a lot of products. And they're technical products. Right. They're electrical manufacturer and we put them in field so that when customers have need that technical understanding, they're able to go out there and service the clients. And you know what, it is an absolute, very important conversation for them to be having. Because on the flip side, the customer's expectation of dealing with organizations is changing. And they don't want somebody just to come out and say, how you going, how's your family, et cetera. Yes, relationships matter, but people are busy as well. And if this, if the sales org is not delivering any value, it's not creating any value, it's not creating a reason to be there, then it's just another person that's knocking on the door. And you know what? People don't need that anymore. So I think absolutely, traditional orgs can now use what the tech. Because it's essentially enough manufacturing line.

Right.

It's looking at the assembly line or whatever you want to call it, the pod line. It's taken from a manufacturing process they've adopted into sales. Now traditional orgs can really reinvent themselves and really think beyond what they've always done. And I think great leaders are using this pandemic as an opportunity to recreate their org and help the customer. I think this is the other thing, customer focus. Put them at the center and say, how do we do that? I think that's a great conversation. We have inside service, we have technical service so we can help them even more putting a plan like this in place. And I think for leaders that haven't taken the opportunity to sit around the table and get the CRO enroll or bring a CRO into a traditional org. They're kind of missing a really great opportunity for themselves.

Right.

Because this is like a once in a hundred year event.

Yeah.

To make some changes that would have been really hard to make. So again, and this is where I think, you know, we're seeing tech adopt this. But there's so many more organizations and industries that can adopt this and the impact can be even far greater.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, one question that I have for you, Luigi, is, you know, when you think about sales, you know, a lot of people think of, you know, the beginning and the end of the sale, like when the contract signed and what's your view of sales? You know, do you See that as the end or do you see the opportunity to have it mirror the entire customer experience or customer journey?

Yeah, that's a really good question. Right? Because I think the whole premise of closing a sale, kind of, that whole notion kind of says it's a once off.

Right.

One of my old bosses used to say we don't close, we open. Because that's just the start of the relationship, that's just the start of what we're going on.

Right.

But again, that's where your remuneration model needs to kick in. If you only get it for sales. But an AE or whoever, an sdr, whatever you want to call them, right? Because there's now so many terms for the same role. If they're all remunerated on that part of the transaction, only the acquisition part, and then somebody else is remunerated on renewals. The people involved in the front end, there's no incentive for them to ensure success. And we do see this with a lot of orgs, right. The sales team will do all they can to acquire and they don't care if the customer is successful or not.

Right.

And the reality is the behaviors we accept is the culture we create.

That has to do, I believe a lot with what it is that the higher ups measure. If all I'm measuring is new business growth or new customers, and I'm not focusing on customer experiences, of course the emphasis is going to be on just getting new customers and not focusing on the experience of the customer. And I think that that's a, I'd call like almost like a congenital disease of the modern businesses, growth at all costs. Right. And I think customers end up getting the short end of the stick on this. And this is, I think an opportunity where a CRO could make a huge impact on a company is to have them start thinking and shifting these insights as being that central like customer centric model you referenced before as the operating principle for an organization. It's a hard thing to do. It's a really difficult thing to get a board, you know, to get on board with that, pardon the pun, and a CEO to be okay with it. But I think the, it's a longer term view. You know, this is sort of a thing we can close with this question because as we were talking about this, I'm thinking, Luigi, your perspective is a lot of companies going to the business today, really, their intention is to get to a certain point of growth so that they can be acquired. They have a very short sort of viewpoint on how long they want to be in the market because their intent really is to just be attractive enough to a suitor and be purchased as opposed to having an objective to have like a 10 or 15 or 20 year old business that's sustainable. What does a CRO do when they're hired as a CRO in a company whose clear objective is three years from now we want to be bought by another company. Yeah.

Bought or listed.

Right.

There's the dream.

Right.

Well again I think the balance, right. Like there are always going to be stakeholders within an org that has, they've got their needs and they're managing up and managing sideways as much as they're managing down. But I think, and this is where they've got to be that, that voice for their teams to say yes, we might have a strategy to go this way but fundamentally if the customer doesn't have the best possible experience with us, if we're not helping them reach their full potential with us, we're not going to be able to achieve X because we're going to see that, we're going to see attrition, et cetera and the best performing organizations. You know I've had the privilege of really. One of my coaches and mentors was the managing director of Xero.com they're a very successful tech company from New Zealand and then came to Australia. They actually have 2 million, they have 47% market share and they took on the big boys like mib and Intuit when they first started, right. Basically brought the accounting software to the cloud and very simple concept and they did it with a very, very small sales team and they have very little attrition. Churn is pretty much non existent for that business. So It's a perfect SaaS model, right? Low cost to acquire and low churn. But when you talk to Trent and he's amazing and every time you talk to him like he's passionate about and bookkeepers because they were the, they were the people that sold the platform. They basically got the customers on the platform, right? There was like a channel model, they created a community, they created a place for accountants and bookkeepers to be loved. They created this incredible conference. You know people call candidates and bookkeepers boring. Like I went to this conference, there was a, you know it was a skateboard thing, there was a. But it was awesome. Like it was called zero conversation. They kind of did the salesforce of for the account. It was amazing, right? And I think again, you know when you talk to him he's talking about yes, pressures listed stakeholder, like all these things happening. But we can't shift away from our focus, which is loving these people. And that's where the healthy balance. And a great leader will be able to do that. They'll be able to balance what their managers and stakeholders, two objectives that need.

To be balanced at the same time.

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, again, your. Your business is quite large. Right. And you'd see this a lot and you'd have boardroom saying things, and you're probably having to dilute that to some extent with the team.

Yeah, no, you know, I think you hit on a really key point, you know, is communication. You know, communicate, recommunicate, translate, you know, and make sure that the message, as it's cascaded across the organization continues to be powerful and meaningful and has the same thread of, you know, the purpose or the outcome that you're expecting. And I think that's important. And you see that in great companies, you see that in great leaders is that ability to connect everybody to their core mission or their function.

Yeah.

Well, Luigi, this is great. And as usual, you brought some really great things to think about. Matter of fact, I'm sitting here while you're talking, thinking, oh, there's like five great topics for us to talk about going down. But look, first I want to just thank you for being here and also for the work you're doing and how you've carved out an opportunity for a community and a platform for this particular conversation to happen. And thank you for the work you're doing in the sales realm. It's having a big impact on a lot of people.

Thanks, Warren. And again, thanks for the contribution you both make. Really excited about this particular podcast because again, I think even though CRO might not be sales per se, it's a higher viewpoint. It's ultimately going to have a positive impact on the sales and marketing world. And when we think about. I saw a recent study about the most trusted and least trusted professions still. Marketing and sales is still seen with a negative view.

Right.

So this enables us to really elevate that. And I think it should be at the top. Like we are. We are a great industry. We're a great profession. We do great things.

No doubt.

So thank you for what you guys are doing great.

Absolutely. Thank you. Appreciate it.