What Actors and Sales Reps Have in Common with Miya Mee-Lee Dias

Hi, I'm Warren Zenna, founder and CEO of the CRO Collective and welcome to the CRO Spotlight Podcast. This show is focused exclusively on the success of Chief Revenue Officers. Each week we have an open, frank and freeform conversation with top experts in the revenue space about the CRO role and its critical impact on B2B businesses. This podcast is the place to be for CROs, sales and marketing leaders who aspire to become CROs and founders who are looking to appoint a CRO or want to support their CRO to succeed. Thanks for listening. Now let's go mix it up. Hello and welcome to this episode of the CRO Spotlight Podcast. This is Warren Zenna. I'm the founder of the CRO Collective and it's been a bit of time since we did an episode. This is our second episode of 2026 because it's been sort of busy and I have a lot more to talk about with that. But I'm excited because we have a really great guest whom I recently met, Mia Mili Diaz, who's the co founder of beyond the Script. And Mia and I met through a founder partner of mine, Derek, and we were having this conversation with Mia and I was like, this is a really, really, really fascinating person. I want to talk to this person more. So asked me to be on the show. So thanks for being here today.

I love it. It's neat how you find people and you converge with them in ways where you never would have expected. So it's a pleasure.

That's right, exactly. And I sort of think I have a pretty good nose for this, you know, like I meet someone and I like, you know, I. There's a lot this person has to talk about. And you know, I want to talk to this person more particularly because, you know, certain people, particularly people who run businesses, they tend to be really business minded or really creative, and some are both. And I think it's a fascinating mixture of things because I'm a creative person, you know, so I had to learn how to be a business person, whereas some people have to learn to be more creative. So it's kind of like, if you don't mind, share a little bit about beyond the Script, what is it you guys do? And then we'll talk a little bit about why you do it.

Super beyond the Script really is in the name when it was born, with this insight into being in the training grounds with sales reps and all the arduous things and the struggles that they go through. And I started to sense something that was needed in Terms of not only just the repetitions of how they practice their role plays, but. But elements of confidence that was lacking. And so beyond the script, Sales Gym was essentially created both from my background being in exercise and health science and going, okay, yes, we need role plays, but we need role plays fashioned around real situation lifting weights and doing exercises such so that people can go beyond the script. Because sales methodology is beautiful. I trained it, I taught it, I love it. I stand behind all of the creators of those methodologies. But that's like an actor getting a script. Okay, amazing. I have this here. But the way that Matthew McConaughey reads it is going to be different, you know, from someone else, and they want that person. So how do you take all that script and then deliver it in a way in the sales gym? And so that's the mission. That's the goal is to, you know, get crack some whips like boot camp style, get people going, you know, so that they can get those sales conversations moving through the cycle faster. That's the. That's the goal. So beyond the script. And here we are.

That's great. I want to talk about a lot of things you just said. So I too, as a sales trainer for many, many years, and I love it. I love the whole communication strategy. It fascinates me, frankly. You know, when I got into sales, it like, was like, I found this sort of really cool way to converge a lot of different aspects of my personality into this thing, you know? You know, this. There is so much in it. You know, there's without question, there's a lot of creativity, there's listening skills, there's empathy. Right. There's a service component to it that's critical. Right. And I think that some people are born to just do it well. Others are. We have to learn it. Right? And I think people can. I've seen people be amazing at learning how to do this really well. In fact, I've seen some people whom learn how to be salespeople and then become, in some cases better at people who are natural at it, because you still have to work at it, even if you're a natural at all. You can't just hit your talent lying around. So I want to talk about this because you mentioned a couple things that's cool, which is this idea of taking the script and making it your own voice, which I completely am aligned with. And you're right, acting is a perfect analogy because you're correct. I mean, when you hire an actor, you're bringing their voice, their personality, their background. Their history, all the stuff that goes into the way they emote things, and you're matching it to a script and it's that combination that becomes the performance. Right. So when you, when you think about a salesperson, what's the. Walk me through a bit more how you do this, what's the engineering behind how you get people to become more proficient? And what is it that you're promising people that they're going to get from working with you that they don't already have?

Yeah. So take a junior actor, for example. They're going to acting school. So they're going to be put into, with a voice coach, they're going to be put into potentially some improv classes. They're going to be doing all these different types of exercises to essentially strip themselves down to be able to then build up their character. And I know this from having friends in the acting world and they talk about this and having done different classes myself. But the essence of it is when anybody in sales comes into whatever they're selling, whatever SaaS software, you know, we have a trajectory of our careers, they need to then become the person that loves and emits and translates whatever the product is, if it's an event management software, if it's a data AI software, but they need to be that particular person to be able to match all of those intangible touch points about who would be someone that would be behind the believing. So the believing. So if you break it down, they need to be coming into like an acting school, but not to the sense of like, just pretend. You actually have to be this person that, that comes down to tone and delivery and just all those pieces into exercises which then you break it down. Break it down. It's like lifting weights. So the idea is that can I guarantee that you're going to increase your BMI by X percentage by this period of time? Well, if you show up consistently, if you are following all of the exercises, you. And then you're actually applying it and then you're giving a feedback loop on how it's going. There's that correcting that you do over time. And so, yeah, there are some touch points of, okay, we've seen X amount of improvement in the way that these calls are happening based on how you were being what was going on in your mind to then make you lock back into that old character that was from your old job, not what you're now representing. So. So it's very much also taking what they say like that before and after picture. I love when there's these, like, really, what was the. The show? Love or leave it. So they would take these, like, these houses and they would just. They're just demolish them. They were terrible. And then they would show before and after. After the renovations. So that's the idea of let's take the before character, that before sales rep and put them at a point like this is where you're at, and then track the progress. How is that going? What have you seen? How are you becoming the character that you need to be authentically to be able to make the sales and have the calls and then get the money?

Yeah, Yeah, I love it. So I want to unpack some of this stuff. So something maybe. I don't know if you know, maybe you don't. Probably don't. I wasn't actor for many years.

I googled you. I couldn't find stuff about you, Lauren,

where I was a long time ago. It was before the Internet, so it was. I'm older than you might think. And so it was in the early 90s. And I don't want to get into it too much, but I did get work. I had an agent. I did a lot. I did some stuff, both theater and some film and also some television stuff. But anyway, doesn't matter. So the point I'm making is that I. I went through a very good. I went to a very good acting school. I had auditioned to get in. It was really difficult, and I was. The process you described, which is exactly what you're correct, is they sort of tear you down, then bring you back up. And, you know, the. The modality there is when you get somebody to come in these rooms. And I learned this a lot because I did a lot of studying on it. So at the time I didn't know this, but I do now, is you're bringing a lot of baggage to a. To a situation. Baggage is a lot of things, right? It's your, you know, the way that you handle things, the way you speak about stuff, you know, that sort of automatic part of your personality that you don't choose. It just happens. And all the thinking and beliefs that you have, they all get kind of bundled together to this personality that you meet people, right? And what the acting methodology that I did anyway taught me was that all that stuff is sort of learned behavior. It's not real, but it's me. It's also unique, right? And that it needs to be maintained and preserved, but I need to be able to also understand that it's pliable. It's like clay I can actually change it if I need to in moments. Right. So it was a fascinating process of trying to find that balance. Right. And then your own inherent characteristics and qualities, like I said earlier, are combined with the script that you're reading and the character you're creating. And that's what makes it sort of unique and why it is that you like certain actors and you don't. Because they're there. They're inherently there. Unless you're like someone like Daniel Day Lewis who disappears completely. These are unusual people. Most people, they still preserve some of their personality. And you like that personality. And I totally agree, because I've hired so many salespeople and I've trained so many salespeople, and. And that is so true. And they come in, they have that baggage. They have their history, they have their training, they have their kind of thoughts on what they should do, maybe things they were taught, maybe methodologies that don't work, but they think they do, or maybe they worked at a job before, but they won't work in this job. Right. And the best ones I find come in, and they have a beginner's mind. From day one, they're like, okay, tell me how to sell this product. What's the best way to sell this product? Let me adapt my prop. My methodology to this pitch as opposed to, I'm going to do it my way. I know what I'm doing. So I'm curious, what's the way in which your. Your observations. I mean, looking at people you're training, which ones do you find, and what are the key insights you're getting about people and their ability or willingness to make that leap and change and develop different Personas or personalities. I don't want to call it that. You know what I mean? Like, different ways of communicating things.

Yes. The. What's the word? The ones that are ready to receive, to adjust, to adapt are two groups of people. Either they're coming in fresh, they're maybe right out of school, they're an excited junior sdr, bdr. They're. They're just ready to absorb. They're coachable, they're excited, and their clay to be molded in that way.

Thank you so much again for listening to the Zero Spotlight podcast. This podcast is an important plank in the Sierra Collective communication strategy, and we're really thrilled to have such great guests on here. So listening and sharing the podcast with other people is really vital because we want to get as many people listening to this great stuff as possible. A couple things to note. If you're a aspiring CRO or a recently hired CRO or even a old salty CRO and you're looking to either become a chief revenue officer or improve your chops and gain some more insights and improve your competencies as a Chief Revenue officer. We offer the CRO Accelerator course. It's five years now. It's the first CRO focused course that was out there. It's a 15 week course that is populated by aspiring chief revenue officers and CROs. We're pretty selective in terms of who can be a member of the CRO Accelerator course. It's people who are probably like more like ready to be a CRO right now. They have number of years under their belt as a revenue leader, whether it be a sales leader or a marketing leader or even rev ops leader. And they either want to move into the C suite or they're CROs that want to just make sure that they win in the role. So if you are interested in being a member of the next cohort, please just write me a note on LinkedIn. Just DM me CRO accelerator and we'll set up a time to talk and then I can send you more information to give you a brochure. Of course. So again, CRO Accelerator Course 15 week program for aspiring and newly hired CROs. Take advantage of it. It's been great and you'll see some more information about it on the website. Thanks.

And then there are another camp. There are your senior AES, your enterprise AES who also have had the beauty of the experience over time, but also have the humbleness to say and I'm going to learn and I'm going to try on new outfits and new characters. The problem is the ones that aren't, whether they're junior or more experienced, more seasoned, if they're not ready to be willing like we talk about in behavior change, to actually accept a new way of being a new voice that's still true to them, but that is in the needs of the business. Then it's a problem. Those people we called the uncoachables and those were the people that you would really try as a trainer to try to with all your might inspire them into the change. But then we go back to there's history before that. Maybe I got some feedback from somebody, my first sales manager, boy, he really laid into me and I will never ever, ever take feedback from anyone ever again. They said in their conviction. And so then you go, well shoot. How on earth am I supposed to get through to you now? I'd try to Crack them.

But.

But I'm not that great.

Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. I'd say, like, that's really great. I love what you just shared because it's this sort of weird, almost like an emotional intelligence quotient, like an EQ thing. I think certain people have a bit more pliability. They have more self awareness that, you know, even though I have confidence in the way I do things, there's still probably a lot of things I don't know. And I'm always open to learning and I recognize that not my. My best is always. Is not always going to be useful in every situation. I need to be adaptable. But you use the word coachability. I think it's coachability and supportability. They're both. One is, I'm willing to listen to new information and try it out, right? Like absorb it and then emulate that new information and inculcate it into my operating system. And number two is I'm, I'm available to be supported. Like, you can come to me and say, hey, you know, you need help and I'm supportable and I'll go, okay, I need, I appreciate that. And I'm going to take that in and I'm going to apply it as opposed to the stubborn sort of, okay, I'm good, I'm cooked, I'm out of the oven, I'm fine. You don't need to add any more heat to me. I'm ready to go. Open me up. And I'm good. And I'm curious how we identify if you could. Because you work a lot of people.

Yeah.

What is that? Is that because, you know, we, we can sort of identify really granularly certain skills. We could say someone is mathematical, someone is artistic, someone is analytical, someone is emotion. You know, what is coachability? How do you know it? Do you have to find out the hard way or can you test people for it? Like, what's the way that you know that someone's going to be more likely this way?

Usually in the first role play, I can tell if the person is ready to be coached and it will be just truly in the inflection of their voice, just in the way in which they do the role play. And then even something as simple as when the coach gives back feedback if they might say, like, yeah, okay, all right. You know those body languages. It takes me back to a story. There was this one rep, he had amazing numbers. This was out. He was actually on the east coast. I won't go more specific than that. Ended up at the end of the event, having a really great training experience with him. But the minute that he walked into the. The virtual room that we're in, his. His hands were crossed. He kicks back into the seat. And you've probably experienced this.

Oh, yeah.

He swings his chair three to four times, and I'm going, all right, here we go. This is going to be my opportunity as a trainer to see what can happen. Now, he was not willing to be coached. He had all his numbers. Why was he going to be here? I mean, geez, his manager sent him here, and he's in the room. So just by, like, simple body language, just by simple voice tone, you can see already who is ready to be coached. And that can come down even for, you know, for CROs and for sales leaders to do a bit of an audit, to start to really look for particular signs. But getting real, because the. The common mistake is, oh, yeah, everybody is super coachable. They're. They're totally ready for training. And the mistake that happens is people chuck them into training. It's kind of like saying, okay, you need to get it. You need to get fit. Go to a spin class. What if that person that spin isn't right for them? Maybe they need to go do crossfit, or maybe they need to train for a marathon. Maybe that's more inspiring. But the ease is just like, chuck them all in the room, slap them back and forth and get them out so they can make some more deals. And you have to see at what stages, like my father would refer to in behavior change in his field of where are they in the stages of change? Readiness. So he would do an evaluation. So it was actually a clinical evaluation in the addictions field of how do we look at stages of change at which then it's sort of an evaluative. You know, as salespeople, we love metrics and numbers, but some running of that to see where they are in their adaptability and readiness for change and that which then. Then there's a whole process in what route do they go for training or not or coaching? I hope that it does.

It helps a lot. Now, I want to talk about a bit because it's interesting. You made a couple of, I think, a really great observation, which is certainly you possess. Not everybody does. You possess obviously, a strong power of emote, of observation. Right. You can look at someone's behavior and you can identify what that behavior means. It might be pattern recognition. You've seen it enough times. But yeah, my suspicion is probably not. I spec you probably were. If someone like this all the time. You should have had a good way of kind of reading people or else you wouldn't have got into this in the first place. You tend to follow the things that you're good at, right?

Yes.

And you might have gotten better at it. But you intuitive, you know, you can look at someone, you know, this person's defensive or this person's, you know, all the things that you and I probably could figure out pretty quickly. But then what do you do about it? So I'm curious to know. So, because this is the challenge that people have, there's two sides of this conversation. One is the manager of the CRO who has people on their team that they know need training and development, and there's the person that needs it. Right. There were two. Two players here. One is, you're a utility player for me. I need you to perform a certain way, and I see that you need coaching, so I'm going to want you to get it. The other one is the person whom isn't hitting their numbers or maybe they could be doing better and they'd be. They benefit from it. So you got two agents that are involved in this situation, Right. So to your point, you get scenario one where it's like, Steve, we hired a coach for you, want you to meet me next week, and she'll help you. You know, I've been in this situation and I usually say to the guy, like, you know, this person asked for coaching. This is just like, was there a request there? Or is it like you mandated it? And did you think about that at all? Did you give any thought to whether this person isn't receptive to this sort of thing or not? I mean, I'm happy to talk to him or her, but that would help. And sometimes, like, no, you know, I just told the person that their numbers aren't good and we're putting him in a training program, like, okay, fine. I mean, I assess that situation. The second one is that they requested it.

Right.

That's a different whole conversation. Okay. They asked for it. Okay, good. So now you're. You're confronted with the person, like you said, whose arms are crossed, spinning around the table or whatever you're talking about. What do you find your successful at doing to get that person to change their attitude, their receptivity and make a difference? What's the working mechanism for that, in your view?

You have to understand their history and their story. It's the back to that analogy of being an actor's coach. You have to go and understand where do they come from? What are their, their thoughts and beliefs? What, how did they get to the numbers that they get to or the 10 particular role in their career and explore more about feedback loops. How have they experienced feedback loops? What are the things that structures and systems and processes that have aided them in sort of that intrinsic motivation? What allows them to. Because we have a tendency to think that what intrinsically motivates us is just for all. So the state manager will be, yeah, I'm trying to hit this particular number because I'm going to be seen by the board and the board's going to give me both emotional recognition of the success, of how I grew the numbers tenfold, but also we're going to go public and then I'm going to get this. And then I'm going to get this recognition and prestige and also I'm going to feel great about myself as a leader. So that's a different motivating factor for both here intrinsically and extrinsically, and it's different for every person. And so the common fall down is for all leaders or managers to think, well, what's motivating them is motivating everybody else. I mean, I make the mistake all the time in my family setting. I think that one thing is going to motivate one child and it totally doesn't motivate the other. And I'm sort of flabbergasted. And then I'm listening to myself and I say, oh, well, it's back to the notion of the assessment within that person. What's their history? One, what's their story? What's their relationship to feedback and how do they relate to that? You know? Four, I would say what's been their experiences with coaching and understanding that and then, and then what? Five, sort of what intrinsically motivates them? And digging into that arena can help start to bring more insight into how you crack. Somebody like that. We call them like a tough, tough cookie.

Tough not to crack. Yep.

Yeah, yeah.

Hey everyone, want to thank you again for listening, get great comments across LinkedIn and other channels about the show and it's really gratifying to see that we're having an impact on you. Another thing I wanted to let everybody know is that we also produce events. About two and a half years ago, we started these CRO roundtables predicated on the idea that, well, two premises. One is CROs are looking for other CROs to talk to, which is really true. It's a very lonely job. How do we get a bunch of CROs in a room where they're not being, let's say, disintermediated by panel discussions and sponsorship events and demos and stuff and really give them a chance to talk to each other. So we created a roundtable event that is essentially that it's a three and a half, four hour discussion between between 20 and 30 chief revenue officers. And these are amazing events. The format took off, people love them and I get requests all the time as to when, when is your next CRO event. So to that end, I just want to let you all know that we have a number of roundtables coming up over the, over next year, over the next, like 20, 26. I want to share them with you so you can, if you're in, if they're in your market, you can come. So the next one we're having is going to be in London actually in February, February 24th in London. So if you happen to be a Chief Revenue Officer in the UK or even in Europe and you want to come by, you'll be hearing about it more on my, my website and my and, and LinkedIn, but throw it on your calendar. And then following that, probably going to be doing an event in San Francisco in March. There's going to be one in New York in March, I'm going to do another one in Chicago probably in April. And then I'm going to do an event in Boston, I'll do an event in Atlanta, I'm going to do an event in Salt Lake City, I'm going to do an event in Austin, and I'm going to do an event in Los Angeles or the Southern California area. So those dates are to be determined, but they'll be going across all next year. And these events are taking on huge momentum. They're the place to be if you're a Chief Revenue officer and you want to be in a room with no interruptions and have an opportunity to really share with each other in a sort of a private and confidential open discussion about everything that you want to talk about as a Chief Revenue Officer and collaborate with great people. So thank you and thanks for supporting the show and look forward to seeing at the events. I agree. I get it. I mean, it really is holistic, isn't it? I mean, we're really talking about it's a people thing, it's not a functional thing. So when you're trying to train somebody to sell, you know, there's the methodology, the approach, you know, the med pick, whatever you want to call it, things that we got and those Things are useful frames, but if you don't fix the underlying issue, those things are sort of not going to stick. Right. And I agree. I think that there is a holistic human element to any coaching and training and development, which is the operating system that is informing the way you behave, which is not just work, it's everything. You know, it's, it's how you were raised. You know, it's what your beliefs are about yourself. You're probably your relationship to money, you know, your relationship to people. Right. Your relationship to your own like personality, prosperity. And all these things go into this and they become the form, they formulate, the way in which you interact. And I do think that this is a really important thing. And I don't know how many training programs I've seen look at it that way. They're very functional. They show models of engagement and process for prospecting and what a discovery call should look like. And I'm not saying those things aren't important, but if the underlying issues aren't addressed, that stuff is not going to matter much, you know, And I think this is important. I think, in fact, if I may be a bit sort of a prognosticator based on what's going on in the world today, we've got the more and more and more and more and more usages of technology that enable us to not have to communicate with people anymore because a machine can do it. The less and less and less we're going to learn these things, we're going to have to be doubling down on this. And I think that training is going to become more and more difficult as a result. And I also think that human interaction is going to be, become more valuable. I'm just curious to know how your thoughts are on that because, you know, what you're doing is a very, you know, high touch thing, you know, and the world today is low touch, you know. So what do you, what do you feel about that?

First, I, I admit it is high touch. The reality is that it's hard to scale something like this. It's, it's hard to scale. It's also really scary to people. They're like, oh, I don't really know if I want to go over there to that arena. It's, it's a bit like, oh, I'll just sort of eat these certain foods and I just not going to like, pay attention to this other part of me where my sugar addiction is just ruling over all my other nutrition. This is because I'm in a, in a detox phase. Right now. So it's top of mind and it's a, it's an intimidating area to go because people don't know how to go there and where to go there. I mean it reminds me of the book, audiobook that I've been listening to the Dopamine Nation all talking about. Everybody has some sort of addiction. It's just what's your addiction? And so for me it's sugar. Absolutely. Because the minute that I cleared sugar, my brain is in available for so many more connections and so much more deep work and focus work. And so part of my where my mind goes is well, where is the distraction addiction in a sales rep? What's going on? What's the noise that is being created? Let's be conscious of the amazing technology tools that we have. I mean AI, we have to embrace it. Right. But it's all over everywhere. We have to embrace it, but we have to embrace it in like a healthy way. The same way that we healthily relate to sugar, to social media, to, to all the things that have the dark and the light. So if we look at it that way, yes, it's high touch, it's a scary area to go. But we need to start surfacing these things. Like I believe so strongly that the leaders, if they start to surface these things in a way that feels not too overwhelming, which is possible, some of those low grade but distracting elements that is inhibiting the true salesperson to shine will dissipate and come out and you get to see the fun related to the dollars and the money. So that, that's a piece I wanted to say. And also wherever you want to continue this, the point that you made about relating to money and the relationship with money is so important.

Yeah.

To a salesperson's way of being and how they, and how they sell.

For sure. There's no doubt about that. Everyone has all sorts of money issues, you know, and it's, it's a fascinating thing to see someone who's like one of those, they just. The dollar is everything to them and they'll do anything they can to close a deal. And then on that side they do it sometimes at the expense of the customer's outcome because they wanted a deal closed and then the other person who doesn't really feel good about taking people's money and they overserve people without getting charged, paid for it. And they, they tend to chase customers around a lot and give them a lot of stuff and they don't actually ask them for the, for the clothes and pay the Check or give me the money. And it's fascinating. I mean, you see all these kind of personality traits, and I think the good trainers are the ones who recognize that and also have the emotional competence to be able to talk about that with somebody in a setting where they might not expect. Right. I mean, they're here to learn how to sell. And now you're talking about my dad who was poor. And what the hell does it have to do with anything? Well, it has everything to do with it. In fact, we should talk about it. You know, it's probably the reason why we're talking, you know, and you know, it. To be able to do that. It's a real skill and it's also incredibly valuable. So I guess if I'm. If I'm a chief revenue officer and I have a team of people and it's not just salespeople, you know, I have a lot of people on my team. I've got people who are also operational people who still similarly have same training requirements, whether it be they don't ask for requests, they don't, you know, make demands, they're not clear, they don't follow up on things, or maybe they're over aggressive. You know, they bully people all the time or they take things over, or they feel the need to have to always be right about things. There's all sorts of weird stuff that goes on in an operational environment. Do you, do you focus on those things too? Is it only people who sell stuff?

Absolutely. It takes me to when I would have a room where I had the opportunity to have the sales team with the marketing team and the ops team and the customer success team come together. And those were often in sort of SKO environments or some sort of connecting the different departments. It was really powerful because what I was able to see was some of those conflicts that people don't talk about. It's again, just like a friends unit or a family unit. The sales team would be like, I'm so mad at customer success for making these promises and good riddance to that client. I don't even want to have them anymore. And. But I need them for the recurring revenue. And then the customer success folks are, well, they're a pain in the butt and they ask for 10 more things beyond the contract. So there was this conflict that would go on. And so as a facilitator, what I would see and enjoy is how do you connect those respective departments together such so with all those pieces? So each of those departments are shining their brightest, but people would be scared to talk to the sales team. Quite frankly, it was like younger sister telling older sister, hey, you know, I really don't like that you do this. But one team would feel hesitant to tell the other team what wasn't working. And that's breaking the whole machine. But nobody ever surfaced it because everybody's just trying to be in their own world. And so the facilitation of those sorts of conflicts and bringing them to the surface would dissipate very quickly just by facilitated feedback loops in safe spaces where people felt like they had a voice.

You think this is something that needs to be done by a third party? So if I'm listening to this conversation, I'm a chief revenue officer and there's like, you, right? There's someone like you who's a third party coaching organization that comes in and brings in expertise. And then there's just me. I have a job and I have people I have to coach and train and develop. And, you know, there's a reluctance. You know, I tend to not be this way, maybe to my, my detriment sometimes, but I'm certainly willing to sit down with somebody that works with me as their boss and say something to them like, so what's, what's going on with you? Yeah, what's up with you? You know, because I'm noticing X, Y or Z, and we could get into a discussion around, you know, why you didn't follow through on this call or the thing, but what's up with that? You know, are you dissatisfied? Are you like, you know, and I don't know if I see a lot of people whom are willing to go that way because there's a, you know, there's a corporate line that you don't want to cross. You know, people have this reluctance. I don't, but maybe that's not good. But I tend to think, like, I go right where the problem is. That's how I think. I'm like, let's talk about the real issue here, because that's going to solve the problem. Problem. But it could come with some stuff. I'm curious, like, what do you think? If I'm a chief revenue officer, I'm listening to this conversation. I'm thinking, you know, this is so true. I know this is the case. I know Steve's got problems with X, Y or Z, but I'm never going to talk to him about that. Now, granted, I understand that's why they bring you in, but sometimes this is what people need to do as leaders. What's your point of view? On how a leader manages these, let's say, less functional and more personal aspects of training and coaching people.

Sure, sure. Yeah. I've been in many rooms with many leaders and there has to be an acknowledgement that, yes, this exists in this type of conversation with your team of sales reps. Needs to happen. It's not should it, it's. It needs to happen in order for the org to actually function and grow. Now DIY it if you can, by all means. And you have the mental capacity and space to be able to go from the boardroom to more of that arm in arm, side by side conversation. If you can do that and do that, well, do it yourself. Don't hire a third party, don't bring in somebody else. But if you are so focused in other parts of the business, you might need that bridge. Right. For a short period of time, for a longer period of time. Or you might say, you know what? I don't as a leader have this skill set, but I want to, I have a desire to be able to have like Warren has always had. I want to be like Warren. I want to be able to put that hat on and then go be the side by side sitting on the bench right next to you, personality, person and, and, and leader. But it comes with an introspective question of I'm a CRO. Do I have that capability? Do I do that already? If I'm not doing it, do I want to be trained on how to do that or I just want a third party it. I don't even want to have to deal with it. Those are the conversations to have. But I would love if everybody had this particular skill set. But that's not the case.

Thanks again for listening to the CRO Spotlight Podcast. We're excited about all the great guests we have and more importantly, we're excited mostly about you for being avid listeners and supporting the work that we do here. Feel free please to share the Sierra Spotlight Podcast with any of your colleagues. We just think there's a great wealth of information here and want to get the word out to as many people as possible. And your, your support of the show is really appreciated. I wanted to share information about a program that we offer called the CRO Masters Council. The CRO Masters Council is a bimonthly group of six seasoned Chief Revenue Officers who are looking for a Chief Revenue Officer, Board of Directors, so to speak, that they could share what's going on with them, collaborate with ideas, get some feedback on what's going on in their current role and these are great conversations. I facilitate them. The CRO Masters Councils, again, they're twice a month and they last for at least six months to a year. So if you're interested in having your own CRO suite, your own Board of Directors of Chief Revenue Officers, It's a private, confidential conversation that we have. It's infinitely useful. Imagine having a room full of other Chief Revenue Officers you can talk to and say, hey, I'm working on this. Or have you guys figured that out? Or, I'm having this issue right now with my business or my results. These are just invaluable conversations with Chief Revenue Officers. Chief Revenue Officers have a very, very unique role. It's a very lonely job, and only other CROs understand what you're going through. So that's why we created this program. So if you're interested in being a member of the next CRO Masters Council, which we have a number of them being put together right now, just go to my LinkedIn and DM me masters or masters Council, and I'll follow up with you and set up a call or send you some more information about it. Looking forward to seeing you there. And thank you. Yeah, it's not. It certainly isn't. We all remember, all of us. I don't know to what extent you've. How many jobs you've had. I've had too many. But, you know, I remember the people I work with, who I reported to, that just made a difference for me, you know, it was never like, just because. And some of them, it was because they. They taught me a trade, right? They gave me a competence that I ended up being able to bring elsewhere with me. And as a result, they increased my competence in the world because of that training. But what they did was they somehow managed to get me to listen to them and they built. They gained my trust. So I wanted to emulate them. So it really was really more of a personal thing than just an apprenticeship. It became sort of a transfer of a lot of different types of energy. Everyone knows that, you know, good trainers and good teachers, they're able to build a relationship with the person they're training, that they trust them and they can have conversations with them in ways that they build that ability to emulate that information to each other. But you're right, I would say it's interesting point, because I know for a fact that a lot of leaders, you know, they look at, like, the plank of leadership skills that are needed, right? There's like computational skills and analytical skills and, you know, numbers and organ organizing. And strategy and you know, ideation and you know, delegation. All the things. What, what's in there is like the, you know, human skills, you know, the important intangibles we call them, you know, and I don't think that there's enough focus on those things because there's a lot of uncomfort or discomfort around talking about this stuff. And the corporate world particularly now, it's gotten a lot more difficult to have these kind of conversations. But they're so necessary, you know, so it's almost you sort of to wait for someone to show up that has those things so you don't have to deal with it. What does a leadership organization do to address that? How do you, do you get hired to do that sort of thing? Do you come in and help lead train leaders to be better coaches in development or do you, are you mostly hired to like do it for them?

Yeah, the ideal perfect world is that those leaders are building this particular muscle group, strengthening that muscle group to be able to do it themselves. It's very much of an empowered way of let me the whole teach you how to teach. Teach you how to fish versus going train the trainer. Yeah, exactly. It's that, that notion and that is very, it's more broad, it opens up more possibilities for it to infiltrate across more people. So there is a window of time. Yes. Where you go in and you intensely train that leader to be able to have this skill set which I know in your courseworks is very important, like the whole phases and stages of the descriptions of what is needed at different size of organizations, what type of CRO. You're inventing this whole new way of looking at that from a leader perspective. And so this is a key component, this is a key element. So the idea is not to be dependent on, you know, organizations and people like myself, but to actually create that muscle so that it's self sustaining. So coming in for a boot camp period of time, but then having a longer term plan of okay, how are you going to sustain that over time? And then really having checkpoints of accountability to ensure how's it going? Because the building muscle journey, it's not like okay, 30 days, woo, I'm done. It's very much of a longer term growth angle. So if it could be acknowledged that this is a key part to ingredients in a leader, then the question lies is okay, well to whom and which am I going to learn this skill or enhance this skill?

So how do you deliver your offering? Is it all virtual and if so, what kind of methodologies do you employ? I just don't mind just hearing a little bit more about the way you approach this particular business and how you deliver it.

Yeah. With how remote all organizations are right now, very much. It's cool that we can be in this virtual world together. Um, it's been fun. I've been able to do this in my past roles with people all over the world in all the craziest of time zones. So that is the quickest and fastest way to be engaging in sort of a small group setting. Usually, you know, smaller groups or obviously one on ones in that capacity. But there's always an important part of coming together in the physical, like human to human, touching the human skin and seeing the people. Because there's a different clarity and exercises and outcomes that, that are born from being in, in a room together with great music and amazing energy as we know it. So yes, both from a virtual remote standpoint as well as in a, in a physical room. I mean, sales kickoff events in and of themselves are amazing opportunities. Sort of end of year, end of quarter gatherings, whether it be again, virtual or in person, where people are ready for a reset or something new. So in those types of moments of either creating the momentum or closing out something or starting a new chapter or dealing with like a merger, everybody's coming together. It's like, oh my golly, who. Okay, let's get our bearings straight here. Yeah, those are those sort of those moments of change at which everybody's trying to get. Get their, get their sea legs. Okay, here we are. So those are the junctions. But yeah, from a structural perspective, it's remote and in, in person, but remote's the quickest and fastest. It's just like, boom, let's go.

Yep, makes sense. And typically, what types of organizations do you have? Like a specific type you typically find, or is it any business? Like where's your, where you tend to find your customers come from?

You know, the. Personally, I love technology that is somehow helping move forward industries that make people happier in life. So travel and lifestyle and health and wellness and the medical spaces, things that really help people in that way. But I don't want to be too. No, no. Because sometimes some technology that then helps something else helps something else. But, but I think the most important thing is sometimes there's like newer organizations where they're just trying to again get their bearings so that startup energy is really powerful. But then also the long established organizations where they're going. We've had this wave for a while. We need to shake the boat a Bit. So what are we going to look at? What's a new way? So I think it's. Those two types of organizations are fascinating because they're both at different phases. Right. Of the, of the company growth stage.

And how do people find you? How do you get your business?

Yeah, I, I love your approach too, because that's the approach that I've done. I'm just a dm. Send me a connect, speak about what sparked interest. That's how things beautifully, organically unfold. My father used to always say, I'm accessible. I'm here now. It doesn't mean to say you're crazily bombarded with whomever wants to talk to you, but it's really that. Is there a connection? Right. So just DM, LinkedIn, book a call on BeyondTheScript biz and let's see if there's a connection because that's how things come about in the most synchronistic ways.

Agreed. It's all but energy. It sounds like a tree hugger, but it is. It just is. It is true. Great. Well, as I expected. This is really cool. I really, really appreciate it and I agree with you on, on this whole murky but yet vitally important world of, you know, the human side of business and that we're all just people. We have our shit. You know, we have to understand what it is and how it impacts us every day and learn how to work with it, you know, all of our foibles and stuff. And I tell people, you know, sometimes in life, whatever it might be, whether it be you're now a husband or you're a father, or, you know, you're now a manager or you're a CRO. You need to bring forth or emulate the qualities and characteristics that that job demands, whether you have them or not, because that's what the job is. So you sort of have to figure out like almost, you know, in the Matrix, so you can plug the thing in the back in your head and give me the father program. You don't have that ability. So you sort of have to figure out, like, what. What does leader mean to me and what are the characteristics and qualities that I need to emulate so that I could be that person. And if I don't know how, then I'm going to have to go get training to figure out how to do that. Because I. This is important to me. Right. I want to succeed at it. So I need to bring those qualities to bear. And sometimes we overreach. I've done this many times. I've taken jobs before. I was ready for them and I thought that maybe I could emulate those qualities sooner than I thought. And I wasn't. It was out of my reach and I failed. And then there are many times that I played it safe and I took jobs that I was well overqualified for because I knew that I can kind of like walk through them. And I shouldn't have done that either. There is this interesting balance, you know, between finding just something that's a little bit out of reach, where growth's possible but you'll still succeed. And I think that's a self awareness thing, you know?

Yeah. And I. And I love Warren. What you do with your collective in terms of bringing people into a room, how you're all over the country and all over the world into a physical room, into a space to be able to have these real conversations, it's inspiring. It's what's needed. And when those real talk conversations can happen, I know people say they want to have real talk, but it takes somebody that is a leader, like yourself, to be that and facilitate that. It draws things out of people that they might not normally say or admit to. And that's powerful for leaders. And as we make these shifts and changes for leaders, it trickles into the systems of the organizations. The money gets turned. People can do beautiful things with money and have amazing experiences in life. And that's kind of the. That's the secret mission behind beyond the Script is how can we touch as many of those people so that they can just have like a lot of money, amazing money to do amazing things. And that's the goal. And in the meantime, we're all just being human to human. So thank you for what you do.

Thank you. So you had mentioned to me when we spoke before you have other artistic talents. Is that correct? What are those?

So I play the violin and I just got my violin that I had not touched in about 22 years. I just got gifted at Christmas time, a beautiful violin. And it was really neat experience because I went into like the guitar center and I just like, I'm just going to pick up this violin, try it on and click it into the end amp. So I did that and I start playing all this Christmas music and all these people start coming into the room and then there's a couple of other guys that were on guitars and all of a sudden there's this like jam session going on and all of a sudden I had a bit of this out of body experience and I'm like, What is going on? It's as if my times in violin when I was a teenager were coming back and the music was on the speakers in the guitar center, and I was like, this is the one. This is the one. This is it. This is the one. I. This is the only one that I picked up. But I want this. This is incredible. And to put it into an amp, I was just like, this is amazing. So tapping into those part of my musical background, and I've done a bit of musicals as well and things. That performer part of me was so amazing. And I just thought to myself, oh, I've got to get back into this. This other art part of me. So, yeah.

Do you have any, like, recorded music that you have that people could listen to? Can anybody hear any music that you've made?

You know, I haven't. My brother does a lot of amazing creations with his. He played cello and now he does guitar. And eventually I hope to jam with him as well. He. He. He's in Costa Rica, actually, so he's. He really around a lot of amazing musicians. So between him and I. And then my sister plays flute and she sings amazing. So I'm hoping. But this is where we, you know, as creators, right. We create this image. I'm hoping one day we can get on stage with MacKenzie and Taylor and I and bust out our musical instruments and play together with me. Violin in the amp. But I don't have any recordings yet, but I hope to. I hoped it would be really energizing.

Well, cool. Well, that's awesome. I love to hear that. I love musicians. I have a lot of my friends are professional musicians. So good for you. And I do want to hear you play one day, so. But thank you. This is great. I. I knew this would be great. And thank you so much. And it was really great meeting you. I know we'll be talking more again. Mia. Mia. Me Diaz, co founder of beyond the Script is co. It's BeyondTheScript biz, correct?

Yes. Yes. We couldn't get the dot com. We got the.

It's all. Doesn't matter, but it sounds great. And again, we look forward to more time together. And thanks for being here today.

Thank you, Oren. It was energizing and I feel a sense of, ooh, what's to come. I feel that. That bubble of excitement. So thank you for being who you are.

Same. Well, thank you. Thank you for listening to the CRO Spotlight podcast. The CRO Collective's mission is to help CRO succeed and help founders and CEOs build CRO Ready organizations. You can find out more information about our services@thecrocollective.com that's thecrocollective.com and we look forward to having you join us next time It.