S1 Ep16: Psychologist Reveals Mental Hacks That Will Unlock Your Dream Life In 3 Months - Maya Raichoora

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Visualisation is the neurological technique to rewire the brain. It's what Walt Disney, Nikola Tesla, Einstein used to tap into a very unique part of their brain. So Walt Disney called this Imagineering, engineering your imagination. Nikola Tesla literally built the electric coil in a visualisation. Einstein used it to make decisions. It's brilliant.

What is the first step someone can take to actually begin visualizing what they want.

Let's make it super practical.

So Maya Raichura, the brilliant mind behind RE:MAP Mental Fitness, is recognized globally for her work in visualization.

As the author of Visualize, a two-time TEDx speaker, and an award-winning entrepreneur, Maya uses her personal journey and scientific research to unlock the full potential of visualization. You know, when I have researched a lot of the interviews with great athletes, they all say 90% of the game is mental, yet 90% of our training is physical. And it's just such a problem. If you want that lead in your industry or you want to become a champion or whatever you're doing, you need a mental edge.

For the audience context, what is that?

So I don't think there's one answer. I think it's just— When I was about 15, my doctor was like, you have something called ulcerative colitis, the inflammation of large intestine. I struggle to explain to anyone what life was like for those 5 years. I'd been told you can't do this anymore, you can't go to uni. So that gets stuck in our mind.

How do you feel in yourself now?

I wish, wish, wish I had something like this when I was younger. My life would have been so different.

Maya, welcome to Wake Up.

Hello, I'm all woken up, I'm ready.

Thank you very much for coming on.

Good, I'm very excited.

Uh, obviously you're having an incredibly a busy and incredible time in your life right now. You've just released a book.

Yes, thank you.

It's amazing. And so many people therefore are finding out about your incredible ideas and how you think and how you've healed yourself. I'd like to give the audience context as to how the journey began. I'd like to hear about how you discovered visualization. I'd like to hear about the challenges you went through as a youngster, uh, and how that's now gone on to change your life.

Yeah. So, do you know, I love that you asked this question because it was only yesterday I actually went back to school and it's been like 10 years. And I was just like sitting in front of, you know, these, a group of year 12s. And I think it really made me think back to where, where it really did start because I've always been, I guess, a high performer. I've done well at school. I think culturally as well, when you're South Asian, you have quite high expectations, but I did not mind that. I kind of thrived on it as well. And then I used to also play badminton for my country. So I—

Wow.

Yeah. So I guess I have just always— when I do something, I go all in. It is like there is no stopping me kind of thing. And I loved life. I was very excited for my future. And a lot of people would tell me, oh, Maya, you have got so much potential. Going forward. And then, yeah, it was around when I was about 15, I basically started just getting some pain in my stomach and I was a bit constipated and just was, you know, going to the loo quite a bit. And just like anyone went to the doctor, got some tests, colonoscopies. It was all a very new world for me. And then my doctor was like, you have something called ulcerative colitis. And you know, at the time, okay, I kind of took it on and I was like, great, well I can live my life like this, that's fine. You know, some medication and you'll be fine. And that's also, I was told.

For the audience context, what is that?

Yeah, so ulcerative colitis is an inflammatory bowel disease.

Yeah.

So it's basically the inflammation of your large intestine. So anything from the way, you know, you eat to how your food is digested to even just, you know, if you have like a stomach bug, it's like the worst thing ever, right? You just, everything in your life has to stop socializing, all of that. It really is like that every day. Yeah. But the more and more I endured the disease, it just got worse. And I really never know how to explain this. I just, I, I struggle to explain to anyone what life was like for those 5 years. So the best I can do is give you an example of a day in the life. So I would wake up where I've just had a night of pure agony. So I've been waking up probably every hour just on the loose screaming. Sometimes I wouldn't even be able to walk back to my bed because of just how much energy it took from me and how fearful you are to even like go back cuz you still want it to come back again. And you're just, you're, it's pure blood. So you're not even, you don't feel human because it's very, it's just, it's like a horror film literally. And then I'd wake up, wouldn't be able to eat anything, drink anything. And at that time I was just really on this like rice porridge and it was just liquid. It was, it was awful. And probably wouldn't be going to school. So you're just bedridden for most of it. And you know, physically whilst the symptoms are crippling, Mentally, you're also suffering even more because you're scared about what's to come and you're constantly just feeling rubbish, right? So I'd be going to the loo maybe 35 times a day.

Oh wow.

Same thing every time. When I did go to school, I'd be wearing nappies because you can't control when you go. So I'd be in a classroom and by the time I run to the loo, it's already happened. And so again, the things we all take for granted, like I just, I had this weird awakening of like, Maya, the things like walking or eating or going to the loo, like no, take that away from you and deal with it another way.

And were you, if you're losing that much blood, were you incredibly weak?

Yeah, so at the age of about 17, 18, I was 35 kilograms. Ooh. Yeah, and imagine I used to be very strong. I was an athlete, I played badminton, I trained in the gym, I have all of these things, but it— this disease just took over. And it wasn't like a quick thing. It wasn't the next day I was like this. It was slow, which was even worse because you can't— it's like you're watching yourself wither away. Um, and you know that I get put on steroids and all these different things, and things gave me some relief at times. Um, but nothing long-term here. And I think the biggest thing, I don't regret it because I was doing my best at the time, but I was doing all of this and I didn't tell anyone.

Oh wow.

I, I didn't know how. As a, as a 15, 16, 17-year-old, how do you tell your friends, uh, I have to go to the loo all the time? Or like, it's such a taboo subject. And at that point, and I know it sounds a bit small at the moment, but like at that point my friends were like, Meeting boys for the first time, going to parties. I felt so unsexy, unhuman, no femininity. I just did not know what to do. Yes, my family knew to some extent, not everyone, but there was just so much shame on top of all of it because the disease is very embarrassing. It is shameful. I suppressed it. That is how I was taught to deal with my emotions and things like that. I suppressed and suppressed. And then, yeah, I mean, when you are, when you are going through something like that, you are obviously very desperate, right? So you try and find every solution, travel the world to try and find doctors, but also on the personal development side. So I tried things like meditation. I did like a, tried like a fecal transplant. I just, ah, it is insane what you will do to try and get better.

Did any of the meditation bring you any peace at the time?

Yeah. You know, it definitely did not do harm, right? It allowed me to, develop in another way and go inward. But I guess it just wasn't enough on its own. And I think that's where, when I was in hospital this particular day and I was— I just got my uni results and I'd got into Bristol. I was so excited. Couldn't go because of how unwell I was, which was like tragic for me.

That would be tragic for everyone.

Yeah, it was a dream, right?

Everyone's so excited about uni.

Yeah. And do you know what the irony is? Even though I was so ill this whole time, I never stopped working hard. That I regret. That I wish. My mental pattern in my head was so much that like, Maya, you're only worth it if you get the A-star.

Yeah.

If you get into uni, right? So even though I am dying, literally dying in a hospital bed, I still had my economics textbook with me. I still was trying to get a good mark. And I'm just like, now I think about it, I'm like, what the hell? But so this nurse came in and she said, you know, if you weren't in hospital, like where would you be? And I was like, screw you. That's such a rude question. You know?

Talk about this in the book, don't you?

Yeah. Like I, I, but now I love her, but what, what an awful question. And that's where I really, for the first time without knowing, closed my eyes and I did my first ever like mental rehearsal where I just, was seeing myself walking again, just in the hospital hallway. Nothing crazy, nothing crazy. Just something that I hadn't done in a while.

So that question is, if you weren't here, what would you be doing?

Yeah. Or like, she was like, where would you be? What would you be doing? And I, at that point I didn't really care about uni.

Yeah.

I just needed to, can I walk again? Yeah.

And so in that moment you are stuck in the bed.

Yeah. So I had just closed my eyes. She was out the room now. And it was the first time I only did it for about 2 minutes. And when I opened my eyes, it was the first time I had asked myself, actually, Maya, what if this could be possible? Because for so long I'd been told, you can't do this anymore. You can't go to uni. You can't ever play badminton. That gets so wired in the brain. And all of us can relate to that, right? Like maybe when you're young, your teacher says, you're just not very good at reading. Or you're not a good public speaker, or maybe you shouldn't start your own business. It's the same thing in a different context. So that gets stuck in our mind and therefore, you know, whether we, whether we think we can or we can't, we're right. And that's what Henry Ford said. And it really is the, the case. So for the first time I was like, wait a sec, what if I can actually walk again? And it's not like I suddenly did, but the seed was planted. And that seed is so powerful. And so I kept growing it and growing it and growing it. And I did it with visualization, mental imagery, because even in the visualization I felt a bit stronger. So I was like, okay, why don't I keep doing this? Then when I left hospital with a bit more strength, that's when I just, I got so obsessed with learning about why my mind helped me just that little bit and what was going on. And so I, I went into that research hole, I guess, books, retreats, teachers, but I was still not very well here. So it was very much like in what I could do. And then I had my own visualization teacher who, you know, helped me take it to a new level. And I then kept going and going. And I guess from what started in an illness, became pure obsession, which then led to me now using it for everything in my life, business, public speaking, confidence, all of it. Because I eventually did get to go to uni and that was all part of it, seeing myself there, et cetera. And I learnt all the different techniques I could find, all of them. Some from like 1500s, some from stoicism, but then some also from the latest neuroscience with athletes. And that breadth of knowledge, I didn't realise at the time, no one had like collated before. And I guess that's where it's got me today, where now I'm bringing in this new information and expertise to the, to the industry.

And so before we progress, so the, the person right now who is struggling, I mean, what you were struggling with is intense and, um, a story for another time, but I had to reteach myself to walk once.

Oh wow.

Not being able to walk at that age, similar age actually. Is— it's life-altering because you're worried that your life will never be the same as everyone else's. Yeah, you— I'm not saying that 18-year-old you or me necessarily were materialistic or whatever, but at that age you are focused on university, boys and girls, like all the things that all your friends are doing, you know, all that sort of stuff. So I do think that's a really, really challenging point to come from. And, and other people who are watching who are in their own challenge, because challenges you know, proportional and, and, and so forth. What is the first step someone can take to actually begin visualizing what they want? You know, is there an exercise that now that you've been through all of this that they could take away right now? They can close their eyes, they can do right now.

Yeah. I mean, obviously it's gonna be relative. Like if it's something to do with your body, then you're gonna be wanting to do things like create a visualization or outcome. But before even getting to visualization, before even doing that, take responsibility. Whenever we are in a challenge or a setback, it's so easy to go into that victim mode. So don't start doing any practical things unless you are mentally like, I'm going to take control of this, this situation. Even if it's not your fault, it's your responsibility. And people hate when I say that. They hate it. But it's true because it's easy to just be like, oh, this is happening to me. The world is against me. My boss hates me. All of this. Fine. Take responsibility. Then I would say the first thing to start with is your character because the char— your character is something no one can take away from you. Your confidence, your personality, your resilience. And so even by you just seeing yourself as someone who can overcome an obstacle, for me it was see myself as someone who is healthy, that is walking, is running. That one step just planted that seed. That I never knew I really needed. But because for so long people putting down my character and telling me or making me smaller, limiting me. Not again, their fault, but it just is the case how we have been wired. I would start with character. Ask yourself, who do I need to be to overcome this challenge? Whatever it is, who do I need to be? And then visualize that person. See them. Practice being them. Visualization is not that whole, okay, let me see it. Now it is going to happen. No. Practice 3 times a week rehearsing how do they walk into a room, how do they talk to people, how do they stand up for themselves. So really mentally rehearse all the little things that make up this character. Do that for 30 days, 50 days, and you'll start to see those changes. You will.

It's funny as well, because I, I actually love what you talk about because I feel like people obsess over the physical fitness, and I'm all for physical fitness, but I feel like if you want to achieve something great or your own version of great, that normally comes through your mental fortitude and ordinarily comes from doing the thing for quite a long time.

So I couldn't agree more. And I think, you know, when I have like, um, researched a lot of the interviews or conversations with great athletes, C-suites, et cetera, they all say, especially athletes, they'll say like 90% of the game is mental.

Yeah.

Yet 90% of our training is physical. And it's just such a problem. And even now we all grew up doing PE and we all know how to go to the gym, et cetera. No one knows how to train their mind. But I think we have moved on a bit, which is good, but we're very stuck at just talking about the mind. Loads of people know they've got anxiety or they struggle with this or that they have imposter syndrome. Great. But what you wouldn't just say, oh, like, Chris, I'm super fat. You'd probably go to the gym or you'd eat a bit healthily, right? We are more inclined to do that with our mind. No one has the education to think, actually, can I rely on this tool or this particular self-talk mechanism or this particular visualization to actually help me overcome imposter syndrome? That's our problem. So we are stuck talking about it. No one does anything about it.

In teaching thousands of entrepreneurs over the years, I feel like you learn things and get better at things often by doing the thing a lot and doing quite hard things, and progress comes off the back of it. I feel like when we talk about mental strength and mental resilience, people aren't doing exercises, you know. They're not— you know, you go to the gym, you go for an hour, you do 5 sets or whatever people do in the gym, um, and they get stronger. But what can people do exercise-wise to, to improve?

Yeah, so this is, let's make it super practical. So even in the book, I actually split mental fitness in the exact same way as we do physical fitness. Mm-hmm. And this helped me. So just like how, okay, so we've got cardio, right? Like running for the body. For the brain, that means using it so you don't lose it. Now the older you get, this is gonna be super important. So engage in interesting conversations, debates, Do quizzes. Sounds a bit simple, but the people on the train who are doing like Sudokus, I'm like, go you. Like you are actually helping your brain in that situation. Two, rest. You know, a lot of people will say to me, Maya, I've had like an 8-hour sleep, but I'm still shattered. Like mentally I have no strength. That's because you need to give yourself mental rest. And no, that doesn't mean sitting on a couch watching TV and on your phone. Everyone thinks that's mental rest.

You know, the opposite.

Absolutely. You need to actually Go out in nature or get away from technology and actually just— and this is where meditation is good, just giving your mind actual rest. And a really good way to do this is— so when I did a silent retreat, the monk there told me this, and it's so brilliant. He's like, whenever you're feeling just mentally really, really agitated or just tired, you close your eyes and it's a type of visualization and you imagine that your mind is like a lake. and it is going to have choppy waters. It might be like a tsunami even if it is so many thoughts, everything. Then you take the lake and you make it really still. You make the water just slow down, let it get to a nice level, and you sit there for just a few moments. That, just 2 minutes, will just give your mind a little bit of rest. But instead of you saying, oh, let me get rid of these thoughts. I need to get all this information out.

Yeah.

You're using it through a lake. It's fascinating. So that's rest. Then we've got diet. Okay, so I'm not about to tell you the food you should eat. I'm about to tell you what is, okay, what is the thing that we consume the most of in this world?

I mean, at the moment, probably people consume their phones the most in the world.

Content.

Yeah.

Content. We get so much of it.

Yeah.

So change the diet of your content. So many people have mental weaknesses or a bad mental state because they're constantly getting primed by, you know, women who have better bodies than them. Or like they're seeing someone else do the thing they want to, so they're like, oh, now I'm comparing myself to them. So a very simple tip, go on anything, your Instagram, TikTok, whatever, and just unfollow or mute people. Sometimes I have to do that to my friends. It's not personal. It's just simply, I know this is going to trigger my mind. I know it's going to make me feel rubbish. Why would I actively do that? And so a very simple thing of just unfollowing, but also curating. Whilst people say that the algorithm is like, um, you know, we can't control it. We absolutely can. If you just start to think, right, if I am going to watch content, what do I want to start watching? Things like this podcast. Things that are educational, funny, anything. Like at the moment, mine is probably education in terms of motivation. And then like dogs and them getting like, you know, pampered. Love it.

Yeah.

Like it's, it's great for me. Whereas if I find that I'm suddenly on these like weird toxic things, I'm just like, why is that helping me? So curate your diet. That also means your conversations. Do you know one of the quickest ways to destroy your mental performance and confidence?

You're going to tell me gossiping. Really?

Gossiping, complaining. And think about it, how often do we just like, we sit for hours, girls especially, we're like, oh my God, this person did this, all of that. Like, come on, life is so much bigger. Think, you know, you want to be talking about ideas, concepts, things that, that help us. So, and I get it, we can gossip sometimes, but the point is so many of us are addicted to it and that's only going to lower your mental performance. Okay, so we've got cardio, we've got rest, we've got diet, we've got weightlifting. Weightlifting is the visualization piece. So just like you mentioned where let's say you are lifting weight, you're literally breaking the muscle to make it stronger.

Mm-hmm.

So visualization does this really well because what you are doing is you are rewiring the roads in your brain. So it's like a city. So you are breaking down roads to build new ones. But you can only do that by either experiencing something new or visualizing it. So let's give the example of public speaking. Let's say you're terrified of it and it makes you feel very mentally, you know, agitated, scared, fearful. If I put you on 100 stages, by the end of it, you'd probably be less anxious and you'd be okay. But now you could harness the power of your imagination By mentally rehearsing yourself being on stage or in a presentation in front of your boss, maybe 10, 20, 30 times if you can, by the end of it, your mind will think it has done it before. Mm-hmm. So that when you're there, you're less fearful, you're more in flow.

That's big for athletes, isn't it?

Huge.

Yeah.

Huge for athletes. And they're the only ones who've ever had access to it.

Mm-hmm.

But like, why? And then the last one, which is probably the most important, is consistency. You will not get abs overnight. You will not get a good body if you only have a healthy meal once a month. Same thing for your mind.

Mm-hmm.

It's everyday little things that compound. And I really mean this, that 2 minutes of visualization daily is way more effective than an hour a week.

I like the idea of being so intentional about it, as in like if people have a bit of a framework. And I would say like those that are close to me would always be surprised at how goal setting and intentional I am about my, my work. Uh, I have like an incredible separation between my personal life and my work life. But when you said at the beginning the thing about the lake, I was once in this legal case where I was being like sued by this big company. That was horrible because it was like there was millions on the line and it was going to be a brutal outcome if we lost, right? And the anxiety was so bad. I'd never had anxiety before. Okay, like never, not even like crossed my mind. But it became an all-consuming thing. And my lawyer once was like, I want you to go outside the room to find like a corner in the building and visualize a black, uh, a blackboard, you know, right, with the chalk on it. And he was like, just put everything on the board in your head and then just wipe it off.

Yeah.

And he was like, um, I don't want you to do it quickly because you're the sort of person that will quickly go and do it. He was like, I want you to do a 15-minute— set an alarm, don't open your eyes. And it's so funny, I've been doing that since.

And that's a type of visualization, right?

Yeah.

Technically you are using creative and a type of process visualization to help your mind process what is going on. One thing I will challenge you on that is that so many of us, we think away our emotions. Emotions are the language of the body, not the mind. It is really important that when you are feeling something like anxiety or fear or doubt, the best question to ask yourself for optimum awareness Where do I feel it? Is it in my gut? Is it my chest? Is it in my full body? Because that will take you away from, oh my God, I need to just get rid of this feeling, and take you into your body where you are like, actually, where do I feel it? Like, what is going on? Is it tight? Is it heavy? And that will help you as well.

And so you have obviously been on this journey for a while, and you have gone obviously very deep on the subject. How do you feel in yourself now? How is life now? Like, what is a— what is typical life and working life like for you?

Yeah, my day-to-day is so random. So I think the two key things I really live my life by is one, seasons. So I think the thing I learned from being ill and never stopping was that it doesn't work for me. Um, so I live my life very much in harvest periods. I have like very high intense public facing, a lot of speaking, etc. And then I have hibernation, which is where I'll generally spend a lot of time on my own near some water, deep reflection, deep thought, deep rest. And then spring. And spring is where I start to plant seeds again. I'm a bit more social, bit more productive, but not full productive. So I go through these cycles maybe like 50 to 60 times a year.

Wow.

Yeah, just like nature.

And is that completely intentional?

Super intentional. If anything, if you look at my calendar now, I would've already, I've already put in my harvest seasons for the next 3 months. Because I know when they are. So around that, I will plan hibernation straight after. So the book launch has obviously been going on.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, on Sunday, I made sure I had a day of complete hibernation. Nothing.

Because what does hibernation look like for you?

It can change.

Yeah.

Uh, generally I won't speak to many people. I wanna be very much on my own. Um, that particular day it was a lot more like physical rest and also sitting in a bit of gratitude. You know when you are so busy all the time, you actually need to sit and be like, whoa, you know? So I sat by the lake for about 4 hours just sitting there. I did my own visualizations, I did my own journaling, and then sometimes just do nothing. I also just love to sit, watch some Goldilocks. Like I love that.

Yeah.

And I am still a high performer, but I am intentional with what I am doing. So pace is very important to me because it helps my energy as well as how I show up. And I think if I am honest, I struggled with that because I think entrepreneurship doesn't always reward that or doesn't value it. If anything, it does make me feel like I'm going slow, or I could be doing better, or I should be drinking Red Bull and, you know, staying up all night to like grind. But I'm going with my, like, my energy and what works for me. And I love that because I'm not sacrificing myself. In the process.

I do think entrepreneurship is a— I, I think unless you're fully in it, sometimes you won't fully grasp that people that are in it suffer enormously from comparison. It is wild.

No matter how much you work on that or what arenas you're in. Yeah, like, it is intense because, oh, there are so many ways to do things. And like, you naturally— and now because the world is very loud, right, and people are telling you they're successes or how they do it, you're like, oh, I should have done it like this, or oh my God, I could have. And I just, you know, told you before the podcast that the book coming out is amazing, but of course I'm going to look to the sides and be like, oh, but this guy got on this list and that guy sold 10,000 more copies than me. Naturally you do it. I think with comparison, I've started to be a bit more compassionate with myself. And the thing I keep reminding myself every day is that When I struggle with comparison, I remind myself I am on my own journey and I have my own time zone. I am not early, I am not late. I am literally right on time for me. Whatever is meant for me just will not miss me either. I always have this analogy of the Mario Karts. You know how basically we, I think we see life as everyone is lined up at this start line. I'm in my car, you're in yours, different characters. And we are like racing, right? I maybe get hit by banana. You get like 10 points. And at one point I was like, wait a second. Mm-hmm. Your finish line is not mine. There was a point where my finish line was walking again. Now my finish line is, you know, a whole nother thing. But it made me realize that I'm probably on like Volcano Island. You are on Rainbow Road. And yes, I can see you, But ultimately I'm the only one on my race. I'm the only one who's walked my path and who's walking my path. And so therefore I'm still gonna get hit by bananas and lightning and all of that. But really it's only me there. I can say hello to you, but it's my, it's my lane. And that always reminds me, just be like, Maya, focus on your road. That's it.

And we all start from different places. The annoying thing about social media, I mean, I think social is very useful, but the annoying thing is that you compare yourself and you never fully understand that you are just starting at different points in the journey. And so I would always say to people, like, you are racing your own race. You're, you're doing your own thing. You're pursuing your own goals. And I think that your goal and your path and your success will become more the more you do the thing. Like, I can't even imagine where you're going to be in 5 years. Yeah, yeah, because, because it hasn't all come together yet. You know, you're pursuing this thing at the moment. You know, you've just launched a book. You're, uh, I don't even know how to describe it, but things feel like they're all blowing up. And so there will come a point where you will be like, "Oh, wow. That is the path." Yeah.

I think purpose and your goals are attained on a daily basis. Yes, have that big vision that inspires you, but the path you will get there— It is like I love this saying that the— See the end of the movie, but let the script write itself. I know who I want to be in the future. I know what I want to achieve. Do I know exactly how I am going to get there? No, not yet. I am going to honor that and I am going to enjoy that. And I'm gonna follow things that make me feel alive, just like a GPS does. And, and I think you are right that we sometimes forget that no one has really started where the, where we think they've started.

Oh yeah.

You know, like, yeah, it's the whole highlight reel, but also we need to be really aware that sometimes other people's goals become ours. And so being really, really careful of like, do you actually want this? Like, do you, do you wanna do this? If you do, then that's fine. And I'm pretty sure, was it, it's Chris Williamson, right? I had watched his live show and he was saying that so many people are like to me, oh, you know, I wanna be this podcaster, et cetera. And he's like, well, do you wanna sit down for 6 hours, read someone's book, highlight it, find all the questions, then wake up at 5 and do whatever? And I got his point. But I think the, the thing is like, A lot of us don't realise what's actually entailed in the thing we want. And so really asking yourself, is this what I'm gonna enjoy? If it is, go for it. But if it's not, just keep asking yourself that question, align to it.

There is an annoying thing that I think has become more prevalent, probably in entrepreneur world, but I think in the world in general where people are sort of rewriting their stories a bit.

Okay.

As in like everyone's, everyone's coming from nothing.

Right.

I find it really weird that that is like lauded so much. You know, there'll be so many people that I see who are big personalities who objectively didn't come from nothing. They were just quite ordinary when they began, but they make it seem like their beginning was so insanely difficult. And I feel like we almost have like predetermined that we need this crazy arc, whereas like I'm really about some ordinary success. You know, some people who are living what they would call like an ordinary life, using whether it's visualization or whether it's entrepreneurship or whether it's something else to improve, you know, the next 4 or 5 steps. Because the great thing is about success is that momentum builds success. And so like I say, 5 years from now, I have no idea, but it would be fun in 5 years' time to, you know, look at this moment and then look at you in 5 years, because God knows where you'll be. But that isn't apparent right now, you know, we don't know exactly where that will be, but as you progress, like, the path will just reveal itself.

Yeah, and, and I think it's actually a really— I haven't heard that viewpoint, but as you've said that, you know, we're constantly told you've got to storytell, storytell, storytell. Um, and whilst I think obviously there are people's stories that it's great to be out there, it can inspire others, yeah, it's not the only way to live the life you want to or find the success you want to either. And Actually, what people do not realize is the more you keep saying your story, you will also kind of stay back there. It is like you have got one foot left in the trauma or the difficult times. And it is always good to have the perspective, yes. But it reminds me of the program, Apple Cider Vinegar.

I have never seen that.

What?

Okay. Brief, brief thing on Netflix.

Yeah.

It caused a storm in the wellness industry because the whole programme is based on a true story of a wellness influencer who talks about her story of having a tumour, a cancer tumour. And from that she built like a cookbook and, you know, became very famous on Instagram.

And she didn't have it.

Yeah, she didn't have it.

Sorry to kill that for anyone who watches it.

But, but that's, you know, really raised that. What happened to her? She, as in, like, she was like, charged. Yeah. Yeah.

She charged.

Well, it's very, it's very fascinating. She's very clever though, in how she did it. Um, but it's a really good example of like, how do we actually check people's stories? I don't know, but they, they hit our emotions. They, you know, people feel seen and heard.

It's like, um, it's like a— you watch X Factor when you're—

yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, like, I mean, everyone's sob story in X Factor. I was always on the TV being like, come on, just say you're just a random guy from, you know, whereas I was the one like, I'm gonna pick up the phone for that guy because he's, he's— yeah, exactly. Yeah, the sob story is part of it, but I don't know, I feel like the problem with social amplifies all these things. Like, I'm, I'm 34, I've been an entrepreneur for 16 years. I should be not affected by the comparison out there in the world. Like, I feel, you know, I'm married, I have such a happy, comfortable life, but why am I continuously hit by this stuff? And it's because everyone's becoming very, very good at distilling their message and often making the thing that they're doing feel more straightforward than it was.

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that you were like, you know, I should not be comparing. On whose terms? Like, you know, our brains are also wired to kind of seek that comparison. And like, think about cavemen, right? Like, we're all fighting for survival at that time. You're comparing yourself, who's got more food or, you know, who's got a better family, et cetera. So it's not that it, it's, it's an not a human thing. I think the point is Do you have the tools to manage it? Because again, everyone has their own journey story, but what is your zone of genius that you are going to contribute to this world? And I think you can be— You know when I found that I have had no comparison? When I have been totally away from life, like at that retreat, silent, just in a very different world. As soon as I come back to the world, it all hits me again. Which shows me it's not actually innately me. It's just because of the environment we live in. And that's why more so than ever, really be careful about what you are looking at, that diet, the conversations you're having, and just giving yourself the compassion to be like, it really is okay. And ask yourself, why am I comparing myself? Is it because I want that? Or is it just because maybe I'm feeling a bit more insecure about who I am right now and need to do X, Y, Z? So I don't think there's one answer. I think it's just that we've got to own our path and like build those bricks towards it.

So a lot of people actually lump together manifestation and visualisation, and it probably wasn't until I read your book and ended up following you, because I ended up following you off the back of— I did a live talk with Sahil.

Yes.

And he mentioned you in the talk, and I hadn't come across you yet, and I remember being like, okay, I'm gonna go check this person out, and then checked you out. I know a lot of people lump those two theories together, but what is it that separates them? How should people think about those two ideas separately?

Yeah. So I hear this a lot that, oh, manifestation is just like visualization, X, Y, Z. But so manifestation and visualization are different because if we think about what manifestation is, it's where I create something in my mind and I can make it reality, right? It's kind of a broad idea of a way of living your life. Visualization is the neurological technique to rewire the brain. Now, the one place that it does slightly overlap is when we are looking at something called outcome visualization, which is where you are seeing the result in advance. Mm-hmm. So maybe you are seeing, let's say athletes will see themselves winning, or you might be seeing yourself succeeding, right? Because you are creating that image and the more you do it, the more you visualize it, then yes, you might reach there quicker. You might see opportunities you never did. So it's really tackling your filter system in your brain. Amazing. That is the one place it could overlap. But again, visualization is the skill. Manifestation is the broader concept. Then we look at the 4 other techniques. These have nothing to do with manifestation in any way. So the second technique is process visualization. So take Tiger Woods. Before he would even hit a shot, he would close his eyes and he would focus on what his legs would do, what his arms would do, how he would swing. He is not looking at where the ball goes. He is just focusing on that connection between his club and the ball. Same with Michael Phelps. Same with when I public speak, I will focus on what are my hands doing? You know, what, how do I walk on? I am not manifesting speaking well. What I am doing is training my mind and body to perform at it very well every single time. Therefore, when I am there, I am in flow and I can perform. The same goes for process visualization in terms of focus, productivity. Martha Beck, she was on the Human podcast and she even said like, I visualize my day every morning because once you've done it in your mind, it just becomes a bit easier. Sounds simple, but very effective. Third, creative visualization. This is for managing emotions, pain, disease. I did it a lot in hospital where my pain was like, I visualized them as piranhas. And then in the visualization, they were like eating my colon and I would shoot every single one of them. And again, the brain has no idea.

Like Pac-Man.

Yeah, well, exactly. And the brain really struggles to know if it's happening or not. And so I was gaining control over my pain. Um, again, not manifestation. You are working with the cells in your body. Then we have negative visualization, which is where you are visualizing the worst-case scenario. And this is a great distinction. Manifestation is always about what do you want in your life and bringing it in. Negative visualization is saying What would the worst case scenario look like? What if you failed? And a good example is, so I once had a client who wanted to stop smoking and he was a ce— he was a CEO of a huge tech company, but it was just not a good vice he had. And, um, it never is. Yeah. And positive visualization wasn't working for him. So him seeing himself not smoking, et cetera. So then I, I made him do this. I said to him, 10 years' time, 5, 10 years' time, see your life as you smoke, you know, a pack a day. Let's say I want you to just be in your family home, see what your teeth look like, what your health looks like. Maybe you're at the doctor's. He got so freaked out, has not touched a cigarette since. The fear can often motivate us more. But then Michael Phelps would use it to, you know, see his goggles fill up and then he knew how to manage it. And then the last is explorative. Explorative visualization is the most undocumented version. It is what Walt Disney, Nikola Tesla, Einstein used to tap into a very unique part of their brain. So Walt Disney called this Imagineering, engineering your imagination. Nikola Tesla literally built the electric coil in a visualization. Einstein used it to make decisions. It is brilliant. So when you look at the other 4 techniques, none of them have anything to do with manifestation. Mm-hmm. They are about training your mental fitness and becoming stronger mentally but also physically.

When I was younger, I played a high level of sport.

Yeah.

In the training, I had a sprinting coach, but you also had like a— so I played rugby and I had a coach that would try and ensure that every piece of your game was as best as it could be. And so I remember both sprint visualisation because she's trained all the UK sprinters, and then I remember tackling visualisation because in rugby, if you tackle in the wrong spot, you are going to hurt yourself so bad. You're gonna get trampled on, or you'll, or you'll miss, or you, you won't connect properly. And for ages, in a room with a screen, me and a coach would talk through the tackling point. And it's the same thing with sprinting. You would talk through the lift off the blocks, you would talk through the ability to change direction and go fast. And it's so funny you say that, because most people, when they think about business or they think about success or anything like— won't think like that.

No.

But I would say that for most people, most people struggle a lot with things like sales and, and clients and so forth. But I would say that before any meeting with a client or before public speaking or whatever, you can quite literally go through the scenarios.

Yeah, you— because if you've done it in your mind a couple of times, especially if it's in a, like, an ideal way, then you're just giving yourself the best chance to actually perform in that manner, whereas a lot of us leave it to chance. Or we just like, we are like, oh no, I'm just not a very good, you know, salesperson or public speaker. And then it just stays like that.

Yeah.

And even like when I've trained sales teams, it's like, okay, firstly focus on your character. How are you gonna show up even on Zoom? Shoulders back, head is held high, warmth, smile, et cetera. And now just mentally rehearse how you wanna speak, what you're gonna say. What if they object? Yeah. How can you, how can you respond to that? And it just makes your life so much easier cuz you've done all the back work and the mental rehearsal. —so when you're there, you won't panic. You'll just know what to say and do. There's an amazing— I can't remember his name. He was a baseball coach. And this baseball team had never played in the Worlds before. And it was so clever. In the changing room, he would always play a video of a team at the Worlds. And just subconsciously, as these players were coming into the changing room, they'd just be watching it. And they were getting used to the fact of like, oh, this is the arena to play in because That is something called mirror neurons. Even if you are not the one visualizing, your brain can mimic what someone else is doing. So a really good example, let us say you are a good tennis player, okay? And you then watch Wimbledon and you are watching Djokovic or Alcaraz play, and you are watching it so intentionally that you are like, what if I could do that? You are actually placing yourself in that position. Your brain really will not know if that is Alcaraz playing or you. So you can even improve your performance just by watching others do really well. But again, we just, we don't take advantage of that. If anything, we visualise the worst. We visualise like going blank on stage or not getting our client or, you know, getting anxious again when we go travelling. That's what we're constantly visualising. And whatever you visualise, you get good at.

I do this CEO founder training thing and you have to make 7 figures to be in the group. Okay. And so, you know, there are people who typically own businesses of like a million a year through to 10, 20 million, a few like bigger, but roughly that level, like SME businesses. And we had a call about pricing, clients saying no, and how to deal with objections. And I would always say that maybe because of my days playing sport, but I would always run a conversation 100 times before I had it. Yes. And so like, I'm never surprised when someone says like, um, it's too expensive for us. Most people freak, you know, they're like, oh God, how am I going to respond to that? Or they say— someone says, I don't want that thing. But if you do spend time beforehand, as you say, visualising it— as in, before I met you, I'd have never used that phrase. Yes. Yeah. But, you know, just imagining this scenario playing out and preparing yourself for the answer. It was funny talking to all these CEOs because you would see them and you'd be like incredibly confident, but then I'd be like, what if the client said this? I'd be like, I'd freak immediately. Yeah. And you're like, okay, well, why don't we just practice saying that 100 times? Yeah, it's the lack of agility or resilience Yeah.

You know, like when something like disrupts us slightly, your brain's not used to it. So if you can give it the chance to be used to it, and this goes beyond just individuals, right? Even think as a team, think of future-proofing, future planning. Like let's say, okay, everyone's saying AI is gonna take over jobs. As a team, visualize what that could look like. I bet you, you will stay ahead of the game because you have seen all the different situations that could happen, how you could work with it. And this is the difference. If you want that lead in your industry or you want to become a champion or whatever you are doing, or just become a little bit stronger in yourself, you need a mental edge. And this is what can give it to you because it is so versatile. And even now, you asked me before, did meditation help? It really did. But now you can really see the difference between just meditating and then using something like visualization to actually change your behavior and rewire some of those things. And to anyone listening, actually a really quick example anyone can use. I once had this client come to me just being like, Maya, I'm super confident, like very secure. I just can't say no. Mm-hmm. And so many people say that to me, right? And when he's in autopilot, of course he can't say no. So close your eyes. You don't have to do this, but I would tell the person, close your eyes and just see yourself saying no in so many different situations. No to alcohol, no in a social situation, no at work. Get used to it. Make your mind so used to it that then when you're in the situation, you can be like, no. And you'll notice, you'll be like, oh my God, it was so much easier than I thought. We didn't build it up because you've practiced it so many times.

That, ladies and gents, that's some great advice. I just, I, I really— my wife says to me, she's like, the thing separates you from the rest of the world is that you say no to everyone. You don't care. Yeah. She was like, your, your superpower is saying no, and no one realizes it, but you don't do anything you don't want to do. Yeah. And I feel like, it's not like that happened overnight. Yeah, okay, you know, as in like a skill. It's a skill. And I think it's because maybe, you know, friends and family and, uh, being an entrepreneur very young, you realize that people take your time all the time. Okay, you know, people will, uh, you know, assume that you can help them. And one of the mistakes I made as a youngster— and actually Dan Murray and I have spoken about this, Murray Salata has spoken about this a lot previously— is that we used to do this stupid thing when we were younger. It's very kind, but it's a bit dumb, where we would both, before we knew each other, set ourselves up in a coffee shop from about 6 in the morning, and we would meet up-and-coming founders for 15 to 30 minutes from 6 AM till our working day began. And we would both do it multiple times a week. Now, that's incredibly kind, but it's because neither of us could ever say no to giving advice. And so I had to, like, train myself into thinking like, what are my priorities? And one of them is health and being happy and being— having a free mind and all these sort of things. And that doesn't come from being available for everything. Yeah. And most of the entrepreneurs I know, they struggle with saying no to what I would say is like relatively ordinary things. You have to get used to saying no. But then also people have like shiny object syndrome as well. And so they're like, oh, I'm doing my amazing business that's doing really well, making a million profit a year, etc. But I've seen this like thing over there and I want to go pursue that for a bit. And actually great success tends to come from like the consistency on the thing.

Yeah. And you know, my generation specifically, we don't know how to play the long game. We don't know how to play it. I sometimes, you know, the guy who started at Pret as a barista and now is like the CEO. Yeah. And it's like, what, 36 years or something? Epic. But can you imagine telling someone 25, 27 being like, hey, what if I told you you'll be in this job for 36 years? We, it would panic us. And so I sometimes struggle because I've decided I'm gonna dedicate like 10, 20, 30, 40 years to visualization specifically. It's such a niche. Mm-hmm. But like, I don't know many other 20-year-olds who are like, that's cool. They're like, no, try all these different things. And, and you know, you talk about the no thing. What I would say is there's a, there's a time in your life where saying yes is also useful. Right? It's true. I think that it's just, again, being intentional with where that changes because I know too many people who also say no too much because they're like, no, I don't want to do this opportunity. I think I'm scared of it.

If it's like aligned with the path— for example, I've said yes this year to going to a lot of things abroad. Okay. Which I would never do because, because the time sink, you know, you do the flying, get there, be present, do a talk, and then you've flown halfway across the world to do a talk. And it's like, even if you're paid for that, it's not worth the time. But this year I'm like, okay, well, if it's in the path, if it's in the networking, if it's aligned with what I want to do, which is broadly inspire more people to be entrepreneurs, then I'm going to go and do it. But everything outside of that path I will say no to. See, so interesting.

Um, I don't think I value my time as much as, well, definitely you or most people. I don't know why. I just like I, I, you know, every single day this year I ask myself a question at the end of the day, which is, Maya, if you died tomorrow morning, are you happy with how you lived your life out today? Yeah. Wow. And every day I've said yes, other than one. But sometimes my day is simply me watching Netflix or me not doing any work on my own. Sometimes it is launching a book. Mm-hmm. And it's fascinating to me because I probably waste a lot of time. Well, like you saying going abroad, whatever, I'm like, this is amazing. I'll get a holiday and I love speaking. But again, it's such a good reminder that I don't see time. And I think it's maybe my age, I don't know, but it's not, I guess it's just not my commodity that I'm most worried about. Partly because I lost so much time. I lost like 6 years. So for me, if every single day I'm like, okay, am I living it in alignment with who I am, that's all I need. I actually don't care what happens. And I think in some ways that makes me quite fearless because I'm not worried if I don't get there. I used to be. I used to, would've thought I would be a massive failure if I didn't get to my goals. But now I'm like, I'm fully worthy and happy with what I've achieved and who I am. Cool. If I die tomorrow, okay. You know, I haven't lived an unlived life. Even though I haven't done major amounts, compared to your other normal entrepreneurs. No, but I guess I've done it.

You've done it. You've done a hell of a lot.

Yeah. But I've come to—

I mean, there's loads of people watching who would be beyond their wildest dreams to have done what you've done.

Well, you know, I had a, a really difficult conversation with— I found that as I've written this book, um, I've lost so many of my friends. Yeah. Or just people in my life, like to the point Some have just been like, I just don't relate to you anymore. And it honestly hit me. It hit me so hard because I just, like, I don't know. I'm just, I'm working on my career the way I am, but I guess, I don't know, maybe it feels so far from who I was. I don't know. I don't think I've changed as a person, but I get it when your careers are so different. But I don't know. It was a really hard thing to just accept. And I don't know if I have yet. But it feels lonely as well. You know, when people say, oh, it's lonely in this journey, I'm always like, no, like, you know, I have friends, but it's lonely in a way that when no one really understands your path or knows what you're doing or can necessarily empathize with, you know, they see the like decisions you make, but they don't always see those choices that you're having to make as well.

Or even why, you know, why you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah.

That can be quite lonely.

Do you think that will become more lonely or less lonely as time goes on?

Do you know, I think because I'm so good at spending time on my own, I'm very good at like going into my shell and just like disappearing from the world. Um, so I need to be more open to like opening that connection and feeling it. And look, people are their leaves, their branches, their roots. Like, people come and go. I think I have the pleasure of meeting insane people just like yourself. And it is very kind of you. Yeah. And it is just about, is it not amazing we get to connect with humans like that? That is insane to me. It is amazing. And your minds connect. It is just the stuff we have spoken about. To me, that is fulfilling. Or the other day I was on a train and I met this woman and I am just like, there is connection everywhere. If I focus on the connections I am losing, I'll stay there. If I focus on the connections I could also gain, I can create some more.

So I would say this is probably the least sort of, you know, motivational thing I'll say today. A lot of the time I say no to stuff, it's because I'm going to the pub with my friends or because I'm— because I'm watching Netflix. Really? Yeah, yeah. I'm not replacing it with something that's more, um, yeah, yeah, you know.

The reason I said no to the pub is because like, I don't— I I hate pubs. That's why I was like, no, no, Chris.

See, I've always loved the pub.

I get it. I think boys, boys, it's where they, you know, connect. Yeah, yeah.

And I would say like, it's funny because like a second ago you looked a bit sad about the friend thing, and I would say that in my life I definitely lost loads of my friends. And I think, you know, because I think when you do something that's different and away from the normal path for other people they take quite a long time to get their head around why you might do it. Yeah, a lot of the time you're misunderstood and you're not necessarily there yet to be able to tell people why it's so important to you. Yeah, and you know, like I said, I'm gonna sound like I'm old, but that at 34 I have come back around on that circle of friends.

Okay, wow, no way.

Yeah, so like I would say it's not like we fell out. Yeah, but we sort of almost fell out of love, you know, like we were at different stages of our lives, you know. I would say I was incredibly precocious and, you know, motivated before, you know, at an age where you shouldn't really be that into, you know, being motivated. And, um, I definitely spent a lot of years not being friends, but then as time went on, I think we've found a new happy medium. And a lot of them have said like, I'm really sorry for misunderstanding you at the time. And I've said, sorry for being such an arrogant twat at the time. Um, and so I would say these days, like, it's the biggest misconception with me that, like, I'm actually— I don't think I'm that busy. Okay. You know, like, podcasts are hard because you— it's quite a lot of time, but they're also probably the most fulfilling thing that I do. As in, I love having you here and I love talking about this stuff and, and whatever. But in my actual work, most of the time I say no. It's because, like, Lou's like, oh, do you want to go and do this thing? And it's like, well, let's go do the thing. Yeah. So the—

and I guess, you know, I guess one thing we can probably be quite privileged to say is that we can have that choice, right? I'm sure there are a lot of people who are in that trenches or grinding stage where if they said no— because one thing I do realize is like, you know, you're someone who has a team. When I say no to something or if I don't do something, it doesn't happen. Yeah, everything stops, right? Like, I wanted to just run away when the book launch was happening because I just was really, you know, exhausted, right? But I knew if I did that Well, nothing would happen. So sometimes you, the freedom point is like, I think when you get to a stage where you really can just be like, no, I choose to put my energy here. It's great. Yeah. But I love that you will just be at the pub or, because life's too short to just only ever do that. Yeah. You know, like you've gotta, you've gotta have the variety and you've gotta remember those places you've been. And when you were talking, I saw this quote and I love it. I think it's like a parable and it's like, um, when a cat is trying to become a lion, it has to lose taste for rats. And I just think it's brilliant. Like when you are also, you know, you're trying to level up or whatever, sometimes you can't take along the other stuff you've had. Not to say people are rats, you know what I mean? It's just that idea that your taste might be a bit different. Or the things you like doing or the things that make you laugh. Yeah.

And that can be, yeah. I suppose the rats could be in that analogy, you know, drinking and smoking and, you know, all the sort of things that hold us down in many ways as well as, yeah.

Well, yeah. So one thing I found fascinating, I've been researching the difference between people who perform repeatedly well versus people who don't. And one of the biggest, like, things that came up or insights was that people who repeatedly perform very well, so these are champions, they're medalists, et cetera, they are very good at deleting. Whereas the ones who don't perform consistently, they don't delete. They think they need to add more. Mm-hmm. It was honestly such an interesting insight because those lot are like, okay, how do I add this coach or add this supplement? Whereas the others are like, right, I need to get rid of this habit of mine or this particular thing. So the deleting and simplifying is so, so important.

Yeah, I'd also say that's what entrepreneurs are worst at.

Yeah, what did he think?

As in, like, I— so again, like, a lot of what I do is I coach founders, and founders can never get their heads around the fact that this Friday I know what Netflix series I'm gonna watch.

What is it? As in, there's apple cider vinegar?

No, it's, uh, it just came out. It's got Tom Hardy in it. It literally just came out yesterday. Yeah, um, it's like a gangster one. Okay, I cannot wait. I cannot wait. But, but they would be like, what the fuck, you like you run these companies. But again, at the same time, it's like, I don't know if I'm working necessarily. I think I've realized that I love the, the work and the growth rather than necessarily the outcome. And by acknowledging that, in many ways things become easier to be successful. As in, I, I don't— like, back to the deleting and delegation point, like, if more people were intentional about doing less of the bad stuff. And so like in a, in a business situation, you would be like, okay, so you have 10 clients and, you know, probably your profit and your turnover is coming from like, you know, 3 of them. You don't need the other ones. Get rid of the other ones.

That's scary for people, right? Because they're like, no, no, like I need the volume.

Or you think you need that, you think you need it, but actually like a lot of the time that I will coach a CEO, I'll be like, okay, you just get rid of your worst clients you might have to keep the team size as it is, or the team size might need to be smaller, but you will make the same amount of profit, and you personally might get your Fridays back to watch Tom Hardy.

And, and I think it— yeah, and it comes back to that thing of like, what do you actually want? Like, are you working to live or are you living to work? Like, nuanced but really important. And I think for me, yeah, like, I, I just— my life is really random, and no, I'm not on my computer 24/7, but I feel purposeful and I feel fulfilled. And that to me is the most important thing because I'm content with that.

And you talk about outcome visualization. And so at the moment, you know, you've obviously just had this huge moment in your life, which is obviously releasing your book. You would've been thinking about it and working towards it. When you think about outcome visualization now, what does that, what does that mean to you now?

So I'm probably not using it as much because I, you know, success without gratitude is failure in my opinion. and I actually have to sit in the joy of what just happened. Mm-hmm. And most high performers I know, including athletes, it's like, what's next? What's next? And I'm like, yeah, it's coming. But also, you know, you spent years on this project. Yeah. Have a moment. Sit with it and be grateful for it. Like, yeah, I don't need to be super excited or be shouting out simply for myself. Just say well done. Mm-hmm. And, and be in the moment. Anyway, I would say twice a week will visualize what the Nike of mental fitness looks like because it changes and it is always a vision that is refining. But that is the thing that really excites me. But right now, it is not the key one I am looking at. The key ones will probably be, yes, creative for gratitude and also a bit of process because I am still doing a lot of events and still need to show up. So I just want to maintain a really high performance. and then outcome will probably come, um, yeah, in about 2 months' time where I begin my new project. That's where I really hone in on it again.

And so you said when you arrived today that someone had messaged you saying that they had finished the book in 3 days, which I would say, by the way, to anyone watching, that I was set— the, the example I gave is like, I'm a big book buyer, right? Okay, buy every book. Okay, I have every book, and I often get sent a lot of books, you know, um, and in my office I've got like a, a pile of books. My wife's like, what the hell is that? and I'm like, they're just the books I never read, or they're the books I started reading and never read. And then I have another pile of books, so the books that I've read and keep reading. And if someone can read your book in 3 days, that means that that is a very powerful thing for them. And so you took years to write it, they took days to read it, and it's, you know, had an impact on them. So you should have a moment.

Well, firstly, also, I think you need to delete all the unread books in your— in your— yeah, you've got to delete them, you know, you don't need that. Yeah, it's Quite a few people. So some people have listened to the audiobook, which is, bear in mind, a good 8.5 hours or whatever. Like, "Yeah, I finished it." And I was like, "Do you know how long it took me to record that? Oh my God, my voice was gone." But yeah, I think it is a weird thing where you spend so much time on something and then it can be consumed quite quickly. I think that is with any type of content or any type of information. But it is the nicest feeling to know that someone has read it and resonated with something or is like, the one that really got me was this girl was like, this woman was like, I've been reading it to my son before he goes to bed and he couldn't stop laughing at the puppy quote. Because I always say that your mind is like a puppy and if you don't train it, it will shit everywhere. And she was just like, he couldn't stop laughing and it made him really interested in the subject. Yeah. And I was like, very accessible. Wow. That means a lot to me. Or someone saying, I've been in my car every time I drop my kid to school, I'm playing it so that they also learn. That amazing. Yeah. And for, for a parent to also be like, I need to teach my kid this, even better. So yes, while someone reading in 3 days, I'm like, oh my gosh. And it was so funny cuz she was like, when are you coming out with the next one? And I was like, no, not right now. Gimme a minute. Let me, I don't think I've read my book fully as well. Yeah. But it's, yeah, I do. I think books are, I, I wrote it so that it was like a Bible. Mm-hmm. It's gonna be something that even I go back to, to refer to. Because not only the exercises, but also just the foundational messaging of mental fitness, the science of it. Yeah. There's never been a book that really goes into this depth of what is visualization, how can I learn it? And most importantly, how can I master it? Yeah. That bit, because that's just not knowledge that's out there.

And we don't read about going to the gym, do we?

No. Go to the gym. Exactly. And, and that's why in the book it's very practical. Yeah. I've even written the, the soundtrack to use. Mm-hmm. And obviously the audiobook has me guiding it. And then at the end, I've done like a thing where you just join the email list and you'll get sent the visualization each day because I'm not trying to protect all this stuff. Like, let's get it out there. Yeah. Try it, use it. And if someone says to me, Maya, after 30 days I felt nothing. Okay, fine. Maybe this type of training isn't for you.

Do 30 more though. Yeah.

Try it and really commit to it. But a lot of people will say to me, oh yeah, meditation doesn't work for me. Or like, yeah, visualization, I did this one and didn't feel anything.

Yeah. No shit. Yeah.

You don't go for a walk and you're like, this didn't work for me. You don't get abs by doing a sit-up. Exactly.

Clearly you've got to— not that I would know, but I mean, generally speaking, you've got to commit.

You've got to just try, experiment with it. Um, and that's the joy. It's versatile, it's personal as well, which is important.

I'd say that the thing I would love you to do next—

okay, obviously, you know, you're hired, Chris.

Yeah, thing I want you to do next is make it super accessible for kids. Because like, interesting thing, if you think about like this show or the other show that I've done, I've interviewed hundreds of entrepreneurs, I've worked with thousands of them. And whenever we talk about, uh, genesis of that entrepreneurship or genesis of their success, so many of them talk about the moments with their parents where their parents were quite intentional about like goal setting, visualisation, and so forth. Yeah. And I would say like, I've just— I've actually just spent the weekend with my, uh, dad and my mum and my wife, um, at a hotel. And it was like no phones for the weekend. We just sat around like— no one drank. We just sat around and like ate and talked for the whole weekend. Super, super nice. And it's so funny talking to my dad because he's a very intentional person. He's like, so you've had all this success, amazing. He's like, what are you, uh, what are you thinking about now? You know, what's the, what's the direction now? And but also, do you think, Chris, that now you could probably help more people? Like, can you find children in hospitals that no one's helping and help them and not tell anyone? And I'm now like seeded with this idea And so I would love you to take visualization to kids because wouldn't that be powerful?

Yeah. And it's funny, I obviously, well, I do work a lot in schools and things like that. And actually kids are probably best at it because they've got wild imaginations that haven't been suppressed yet. Whereas for us, we misuse our imagination, whereas they could really benefit from it. But honestly, Chris, I still find that I'm a kid as well. Like, I, do you know what I mean? Like, I'm still, like in that zone. And so whilst yes, I love giving back, and for me service is everything because I wish, I wish, wish, wish I had something like this when I was younger. My life would have been so different. And I, I don't even think I would've got ill if simple things like knowing how to manage my emotions or things like that. And actually I am working on some really exciting stuff to bring mental fitness into the physical fitness curriculum, which would be insane. So you don't just learn how to train your body, you do learn a little bit about to train you know, the, the mind. And that's why, like, I'm a bit of a lazy entrepreneur in the way that I can't do this on my own. So the way my mind thinks is if I want to go big, I need to partner with someone big. Mm-hmm. And that's why this Nike partnership came about. I had it in my mind to make it happen. 2 years of hard work and intentional work. And you know, by partnering someone like that, yeah, we can change the way mental fitness is even thought about in schools. And that excites me, but I can't do it on my own. And so it is just about being creative, innovative, and also patience, being patient. And even if that one mom who reads my book helps that one kid, that to me is good. We, we have to start somewhere. Mm-hmm. Because a lot, a lot of people think these changes are like revolutionary. They have got to be evolutionary little by little, and then we can make change.

Can people use visualization negatively and get caught in the spiral?

Yeah. Yeah. Two ways. One, you're either using too much negative visualisation where you are always seeing the worst case scenarios or things going wrong. Or, you know, a lot of us, we repeat the past experiences we've had and therefore what that does is it continues to wire your brain in a particular way. So I will give an example. You know, I've had this to me before where I remember doing a public speaking thing at, at uni and I had an accident during it and it was so dehumanizing. But from that moment, my brain, my body, and myself made a decision to never ever public speak again in my life. How humiliating. Never do that. And because it's such an emotional experience, mm-hmm. No, I will, I will just never do that. And anytime a public speaking thing came up, I would rehearse that exact same scenario, which of course would make me feel even worse and definitely not do it. And I see this a lot in public speakers, performers, even, um, a good— an athlete I was speaking to, she, she basically like made a mistake when she was, um, coming off when she was doing her run. And that plays in her head. Yeah. Constantly. And so that's one way that you can really, you know, keep wiring it in a negative way. The other thing I get is, Maya, I am visualizing my goal, etc. But what if it does not happen? I feel worse. I get it. I do get it. There are things in life we cannot control. That is why when people say, I am going to visualize millions of dollars and this car. Yeah, I mean, fine, but you cannot always control that. No. So you want to go beyond that and think, well, visualize who you want to be. Even when I do the Nike of mental fitness, there are many options, but I do not attach myself to it. It is not really about the goal. It is not really about the outcome. It is about who you become on the way. So that is better to focus on. So if you are like, okay, in 5 years I want to do this, take out the timeline because that is only going to set you up for failure unless you are like an athlete where you are training for the Olympics or whatever. But even then, let us say you do better in the next Olympics. Time should not be the thing, the constraint, but have a really big vision. But don't attach to it.

Have you had anyone challenge the idea of visualisation and your health? Just because I feel like visualisation for me probably gets me to a point where I can change my life, but I can't change my physical being, you know. Yeah. If I have a, a condition, which, you know, luckily I don't, can I change my condition through my thinking?

So I'm very careful with what I say here because partly because of apple cider vinegar, but no, also I'm very aware the programme. Yeah. But I'm very aware that I'm not going to sit here and say blank statements like visualisation healed me because it's not true. I can't genuinely say it's the only thing I did and all this. However, there's an amazing researcher called David Hamilton. He's brilliant. Has a PhD, used to study cancer cures, and his research around visualisation and the impact it has on a cellular level in your body, amazing. And it comes from the placebo effect. So a good example—

For those that don't know, what is the placebo?

Placebo. So I'll give you the example of this experiment which shows what placebo is. So they took a group of people and they were basically rubbing poison ivy on their arms. And what happened is they all basically got some like boils, rashes, et cetera, because we're allergic, right? Humans are allergic to it. Then the researchers told that group that that plant was actually a harmless shrub, but because you thought it was poison ivy, your body reacted in a way that came out with redness and some people even got boils because your mind is so strong that if it believes something, it can influence the body. Then they reversed the experiment. Mm-hmm. This time they were actually rubbing it with poison ivy, but they told them that, hey, look, it's just a harmless shrub. And what they found is there was only 1 in 6 people developed, um, the symptoms. And again, we are allergic to this plant. So how is it that because our belief is so strong that, okay, it's just a harmless shrub. That we can actually influence it. So that's just a very extreme example, but it's a brilliant experiment. And when you apply this to then your health, whether it's, let's say IBS or you've got an injury or maybe, you know, you've just had a surgery, right? Because the mind really struggles to know the difference between what's real and imagined, you can start helping your body recover or helping gain some control over the pain. So when I work with people, and that's people from you know, who have like MS to then athletes who are recovering from an injury. I will use that, particularly creative visualization, which I talk a lot about in the book. But actually, sadly, because of legal reasons, a lot of what I wrote had to come out. I get it. I am going to respect that. The studies are out there. Mm-hmm. The impact it can have on your immune system is brilliant. And even to this day, I still visualize a healthy colon. I see it so clearly. I am, you know, I do not need to visualize the, you know, getting rid of pain or anything anymore because I am very healthy and et cetera. But I still see a healthy colon because it reminds my brain and body that this is the images I want to see. And you know, there are many stories of people overcoming illness with visualisation, but I like to see the science of it. Yeah. And so whilst it's not a cure and it's not going to get rid of everything, is it something that can help and be a catalyst? Absolutely. Yeah.

I was doing a lot of reading before the, the show on mental stress versus outcome for your body. So I have a, a dad who's got some health issues, and we talked a lot about how prolonged stress in his life has had a negative effect on himself. And I've also got another friend who— his own doctors said that the fit, the mental state of his life when he was younger had such a negative effect on his physical outcome that it has had such a had a powerful effect on his physical state that he is in now. And it is interesting because I think that, you know, if I, if I was honestly to hear you say that originally, I'd have been like, that just can't be true. Yeah, I would have done the same. You'd be like, I just can't really wrap my head around it. But I, and I don't, I still don't know where I stand on it in terms of whether I believe it to be the case, but I certainly believe that there is a link between your mental and your physical health. And yeah, by positioning yourself in a position where you are pushing towards a healthier life and pushing towards, you know, like you said with the walking, like retraining yourself to walk, imagining yourself doing it, it could never have a negative effect. No.

And I don't think a lot of people are going to like that I say this, but you can do all the ice baths, all the gymming, all the supplements, all the yoga in the world. But if you are chronically stressed, you will remain ill. You will remain having those breakdowns. You will remain anxious. And my teacher used to explain it to me like this. She was like, stress in itself isn't bad. We are human. We can feel a little bit of it. The dangerous stress is like the drops in the ocean. It is that argument you had with your partner that you are holding in your body. It is the frustration you have with your boss, or it is like you holding grudges, or it is just the constant stress, or you not taking any breaks. It is the little drops and drops and drops that creates an ocean. And then eventually the body has to scream at you to be like, look, you cannot stay like this. And that is why often disease will occur, pain will occur, panic attacks will occur, because you are basically— the body is expressing what the mind is suppressing. And humans are so resilient that We need so much pain and suffering to actually make change. We wait till we are so stressed, we have had the breakdown, we have burnt out. That is when we actually take our health seriously. No one does it proactively, and I get it. I was the same. But so I think it is just remembering that if you are someone that is always on survival state, you are not giving your body the environment to heal or be at its like normal state. Mm-hmm. And so I am not here to convince you that your mind and body are linked. What I will say is I would go even further and say there are direct links between the parts of your body and the patterns happening. So for example, with colitis, it is the inability to let go. And when I first read this, and this is in Louise Hay's work, I was like, no, no, no, no. And then, oh my gosh, from such a young age, inability to let go, very envious, jealous, it all came out. And so by addressing those emotions, those patterns, I literally saw change in my symptoms. So I wouldn't say to anyone, you have to believe it. I think be curious to it, be open to it. Listen to the language between the mind and the body. It's a language like anything, like French, Spanish, German. It's a language.

And so talking of, of language, I've seen you say that, you know, everyone has a love language. Yeah. And they have stress language. Yes. So what's the stress language?

So stress languages, we basically have fight, flight, freeze and fawn. A lot of people know, you know, oh yeah, you'll know like, oh yeah, I tend to like avoid this, or I, I will run away. And it's just important because if you are aware of what your stress language is, as well as your partner's, it means you can handle it better. So for example, I'm a fighter. If I'm in stress, I will fight because that's what I've known to do. But fighting means that I'm probably not thinking very rationally. So now I know I need a bit of, let's say, physical touch. Or I need a moment to just myself on my own to then be like, okay, this is what I need to do. If you are someone who you go into flight, you run away, you're scared. Your brain doesn't know if you're getting, you know, chased by a tiger or if literally maybe someone said something mean to you. So if you're willing to fly away, be brave and actually confront the situation. Stop, pause, calm the situation, have a mature conversation with them. Running away is just gonna mean it chases you and it's gonna get you. So being aware of your stress language gives you more ownership and control with how you can manage your stress, and that's super important.

So what are the 6 vulnerable questions that you would ask to deepen your relationship with anyone?

Ooh. Oh, to be fair, there are so many, but let's look at some of the key ones I've definitely seen, you know, make a difference in my connections and relationships. One is, what is something I could be doing better in this relationship? We're very good at seeking feedback in the workspace, but never in our relationships, whether that is personal, professional. When was the last time you felt seen or heard by me and why? The more we can actually celebrate that behavior, the better it is for us. Um, three, since you first met me, or, you know, in a particular time. How has— how have I changed, or how has your impression of me changed? That's also important just for that level of awareness. 4, what is something you're afraid to tell me? Mm. 5, what's something that you see in myself that I don't see in myself?

Really important.

And 6, I would say What is something in this relationship, or what is something you have taught me, and how have you used it in my life? Because again, I think it's just a really important thing to see the value in friendships, relationships as well.

So you've said before that being physically attractive is overrated and mentally, uh, attractive is what you should aim for. So why is that?

Yeah, I mean, obviously you still want to be physically attractive, but yes. I think physical attraction is a little bit overrated now, and we want to put our focus on mental attraction. Because really, physical attraction will bring someone to you, or maybe that initial attraction, but does it keep them there? No. So mental attraction are those questions like, well, do they know how to manage their emotions? Do you know how to manage your stress? Do you know that when you need support, you know how to communicate that? Like, that is so attractive. And people who have invested in their mind and they have trained that and they have that awareness, honestly, it is the sexiest thing ever at any age, whether you are 15 or you are 50. None of us spend time building our mental attraction, but that will make you so unstoppable and so captivating on another level. It is epic because really relationships are minds connecting, you know? And it is such a beautiful process that if we only rely on physical attraction, like, okay, but that's gonna go, it's gonna fade. And the more you invest in your mental attraction and your mental attractiveness, you will see a change in your relationships.

Well, Maya, thank you so much for coming on Wake Up. It's absolutely awesome conversation. Thank you.

I hope people have woken up to mental fitness.

Where can they, um, where can they find you?

So probably by the lakes on my own. No, I am— so Instagram is @maya.mentalfitness. LinkedIn, Mai Ratchura. Do a lot of events in London as well. And of course the book Visualize is available in all normal places, Amazon, Waterstones, et cetera. But also if you ever have a question or wanna reach out, I'm always happy to, like I said, time, I don't mind if I waste it. So I'm good. I love, I love little coffee chats, et cetera. Awesome.

Well, thanks for coming on. Thank you.

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