$532K in One Month Selling Land They Didn't Own - Ep. #308

Every other day, these 23 and 26-year-old brothers go down and check the mail and find a signed contract to buy a piece of raw land. But that's the whole secret. They're not even buying this land themselves. They went to a builder beforehand and say, "Hey, how much do you pay for spots of land to build homes on?" They tell them, then these guys go out and find people willing to sell. They take a 10% profit margin. That 10% is about $8,600. Their best month, they did over $500,000 in profit. So today we're going to learn about flipping land. How can you flip land without any money? All you need is a phone, an internet connection, and a willingness to talk to people, and you can make a lot of money flipping land. Let's dive right in. Okay, Jackson, Carson, welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome to Texas. Um, why don't you tell me who you guys are and what you do?

Awesome. So we're brothers. My name is Jackson, this is Carson. So a little over 4 years ago now, like 4 years and a couple, couple months, we started a business. We kind of found out about it on accident. Where we are getting paid finder's fees to bring home builders their land, right? So we're essentially selling other people's properties without owning it ourselves, right? So for an example, just 90 seconds, what the business model is, is we'll reach out to a home builder that's just building homes to resell them and we'll say, hey, I see you built 9 homes in the past month, right? Are you looking for more land to build on? Right. And they'll say, yes, I'll pay $50,000 for anything in this specific neighborhood. So then we'll go through that neighborhood and if we find someone to agree at $40,000, we make $10,000 without putting up any money. All right, so we have different systems and stuff we've developed to be able to do more of these deals and reach more sellers and stuff like that. But that's the full business model, is we are selling other people's land without owning it ourselves, and then we keep the difference as our profit.

Is this wholesaling? Is that another word for it? Yes, essentially. Okay, let's break down exactly what wholesaling is. I've done wholesaling. Okay, so here's what I understand it to be. Tell me when I'm wrong. So you will primarily find properties off market, right? Postcards, yellow letters, cold calling, whatever, looking at the MLS. And you will try to get them under contract. And that contract has a clause in it that says, I can sell this contract. Yes. Yeah, I have the right to do that. Right. So you will find, let's say, a 1-acre lot for $100 grand. You know, the market price is $170. Yep. So you will buy it and either just list it on the MLS for $170 or you will sell the contract to another investor for $150,000 or whatever, and it never hits the MLS. But the key point is you're never buying the property, right? You're putting in some earnest money and you've got like a 30, 60, 90, 120-day window to find a buyer for that property or you lose your earnest money.

Kind of. So, so yes, as far as what wholesaling is, right? Exactly. So it's— you can do this with houses. You could probably do this with an MBA contract, right? You just need one clause.

You're trading paper.

Yes, it says assignable. So if it says assignable, it means I can sell this person's property without ever buying it myself, right?

And then, um, yeah, sell this person the right to buy the property, the right.

Yes, yes. Um, so if I get someone to agree to sell their house for $200,000 and then I find a fix and flipper to pay $210, right? If I have that assignable contract, I send the two contracts to something called a title company, um, and then the buyer sends $210,000 The buyer gets the house, the seller gets $200,000. You would make $10,000 without putting up any money, right? So that's customary wholesaling.

Have you ever bought a land deal yourself, uh, or have you wholesaled everything?

We, we prefer to wholesale everything, right? But like, we've bought them ourselves, I'd say probably 5% of the time, right, for different circumstances, right? So for an example, if we have a lot that's worth more than we're getting offered, right, like now we have the ability to be able to purchase it ourselves. Right. In the beginning, we didn't have any money, so we couldn't buy the lots ourselves.

But yeah, but for our first 80, 100 deals, we were just strict assigning wholesale.

Right.

As many as I imagine every now and then you come across something that's just a screaming hot deal, right?

Yeah.

You're like, this is just too good for us to sell.

100%, right?

Yep. And in the early days, you couldn't do that if you wanted. You didn't have the money.

Yeah. Well, it's like, hmm. And sometimes— sorry to cut you off— sometimes it's scary to put a big assignment fee on a HUD, on the HUD statement where it's the settlement statement. For those of you watching that don't know what that is, So for example, we had one that we got at $165,000, we sold it for $275,000, and we had a $110,000 assignment fee on the HUD. And that's a little scary having that sitting there, God forbid, you know, thinking something could go wrong, you know.

Yeah.

And sorry, just to tell like a quick story back to your point, like one of our— so it was our first ever big deal that we ever did. And we did some deals, we made some money, we made some poor investments because we were 19 and 21 years old. And we had our first big deal per se that came in, and it was— we were getting 4 lots for $37,000, um, and we're about 6 months into it. We didn't have $37,000 at the time, but we were investing in stocks since we were young, and even making $100 a week, like, since we just put it away— stock, stock, stocks. And I remember selling all my stocks so we could actually purchase this one, and it was the first one we ever purchased. And then that deal ended up making us about $140,000, and that was kind of like the breakthrough for us. But that was the first one we ever purchased ourselves. Yeah.

So 4 lots for $37,000 in Jacksonville, Florida. Okay. Was that in like an established neighborhood?

Not really, actually. So like, you would be really surprised. Is the seller actually reached out to me. So we would send like postcards, hey, reach out if you're interested. And she called me and she said, hey, listen, my husband and I, we got these properties 10, 20 years ago. They paid like literally probably $800 for each of them. And she just reached out. She was like, listen, I want $40,000 for all of them. Right. And we didn't really I had no idea how to value them. Like us having a 10-minute conversation before this, you knew more about me or more than I did about land flipping than I knew at this time. Right. So me and Carson were like, sure, we'll see what happens here. I put them under contract for $37,000 for the 4, and then I just called a realtor that built— he was listing a newly built house. Right. So he was working with a builder that builds homes and he was like, well, this one's worth $80,000. This one's worth $70,000. This one's worth $30,000 and this one's unbuildable, but it's still worth like $15,000. Right? So at that point, I called another agent because I'm like, there's no way this is true, right? And like, at this time, like, we were basically deal by deal to pay for our lifestyle in Miami. Like, we did— we were working off of like the 45th floor lobby in our building because we didn't have furniture yet in our room, right? Like, we were sitting there, like, it was 2 days before his birthday, his 20th birthday, and we were kind of freaking out. So I called a couple more agents, they confirmed everything. Um, so then I called the title company and I was basically like, how quickly can we get this done? Liquidated all the funds they had in the stock market. We closed on it, and then that was kind of our first breakthrough month, per se. Yeah.

So, so you sold them all for $140,000, or you—

it was a $140,000 profit.

We sold them a little over $180,000. So it was like $185,000, $190,000. Then you have your closing costs, your agent that you pay in the back end. Um, but again, this is not a customary deal because 90 to 95% of the deals we're doing, we're not purchasing ourselves, right? Because, yeah, um, we kind of switched our model to where like Before, we were like, let's go find a deal and then find a builder. Then we switched it to builder first, where we're going to reach out to the builder first, right? They're going to tell us exactly what they want. Then we're basically just going to go shopping for them and just take $5,000, $10,000 off the price, right? So if a builder says they want to pay $50,000, we're going to go find it at $40,000 because we already know we don't have to work on selling it. It's just straight flip to the builder, one email.

So I'm going to use my local area as an example because I know it super well. I've lived in— I live in a small Dallas-Fort Worth suburb, right? It's about 8,000 people here. It's quite rural, 2-acre minimum lot sizes.

Okay.

And there's like a half a dozen like small custom home builders here. And I know that lots in this area, 2-acre lots are selling for like $750,000.

Okay.

So if I were doing your business model, I would reach out to these 6 home builders. And I'm sure you're doing on a much bigger scale.

Yeah.

But I would say, what do you need to buy a lot for to ensure that you make a profit? Are these like spec home builders? Yeah, exactly.

So it's called scattered lot campaigns, right? So we don't target— so there's two types of builders that will do these homes, right? Is there's one that's going to buy a 40-acre parcel, they're going to subdivide it, they're going to put in roads, and they're going to build 100 houses. We don't touch that. But we will do the spec home builders where they'll do 10, 20, 100 lots a year, and they're just like— you'll be driving down your neighborhood and you'll see house, house, house, lot, house, house, house. And they'll just buy that lot, they'll build on it, right? So we'll reach out to the builder and we'll say, hey, listen, I see you've built 7 homes in the past month, right? Um, I, I see you've paid about $50,000 to $60,000 for all of them. The lowest listing on the market that you would pay on the MLS is $60,000. What would you pay if I brought you a deal right now? As we get them all off market, right, we're going to bring the deals to you, we're going to match the terms up. What do you need to be at on these lots?

How many do you want? And then in your example, it's called the buy box. So the first thing, and the way we do it with the Builder First method, is you get the builder's buy box. So in your example, we'd reach out to those 6 home builders and say, okay, what is your buy box? Meaning, what are you looking to pay in what zip codes and what size lots. So they would say, I'm paying $750K for 2 to 3 acre lots in this exact area of Dallas, Texas, or right outside of Dallas, Texas. Um, and then we would reverse engineer it, go find sellers, go pull a list of owners that are off-market properties, so not listed, that the owners have owned it for a long period of time and that they paid cheap for these properties. And then we would reach out to them and offer them $650,000 to $700,000. And then every single person we get to say yes would be a $50,000 to $100,000 deal. Depending on, you know, the negotiation.

Okay. So are like spec home builders, custom home builders that build 10 to 30 a year, is that like your bread and butter?

A little bit all over the place, right? So one of our biggest ones is actually the biggest home builder in the country, D.R.

Horton.

Or D.R.

Horton.

Those are like the big— yep, yep, exactly. Um, and then we also just do like— we have some that'll just do one, one build a year, a couple builds a year.

Like I have one guy on my phone in Lehigh Acres, Florida. He buys 3 lots a year, and I typically bring him 2 2 to 3 of those every single year.

Yeah, so it's kind of all over the spectrum. Um, we also will work with investors and land bankers because a lot of people don't realize this, but when the house values go up— so if a house value went up maybe 20% in Florida and went from $400 grand to $500 grand, that doesn't mean a lot goes from $10 grand to $12 grand. Sometimes that lot can go from $10 grand to $100 grand in a span of 6 months, a year, 2 years. So a lot of people will just buy these as investments. So we work with investors, stuff like that. Um, but it's great that the lots go up like that because so many people purchased it for cheap, and if they haven't built on it for 5 years, they essentially have no use for it. So not only are they making a ton of money on it, but also when the price— so if a, if a someone got a lot for $8,000, now it's worth $100,000, right? Great, they get— we offer them $80 grand, they get to make a bunch of money, but they actually want to sell it because their property taxes might have been $13 a month when it was worth $8 grand. Now they're paying $2 grand a year for a property they don't even use. Right? So it's actually helping them get out of the taxes, um, everything like that. Um, wholesaling usually involves lowballing a bunch of people, and their, their best bet is to, to rip somebody off, for lack of a better word, right? So we take a different approach, right? So we'll go and we'll reach out to the builders first. Start with the buyer, right? And we, we just go 10, 10, 20% lower than what they'll pay, right? And we're helping these sellers because the good agents won't work with the sellers, right? So if a buyer says they're going to pay $100,000, We're just going to mass offer $90,000 to everybody that owns that piece of property.

And the seller avoids the realtor fees. And sometimes on land it's 8 to 10% because like you said, good agents don't want to list a $40,000, $50,000 property. It's going to take 6 months to sell. They don't have much commission in it for them. They want to list a $2, $3, $4, $5 million house. So a lot of these land agents will take 8 to 10% and then, you know, $2,000 in closing costs. So even just taking those commissions out of the equation and guaranteeing the seller, we're going to close in 30 days. That's our fee right there. If we take out that $5,000 to $6,000, that would have been there with realtors and closing costs, and you're not going to get a, get a good agent that knows the market. We can make our margin in between right there. And we're not ripping anybody off. The seller is getting a fair deal. The buyer is getting a property that they're going to make money on. And then we make our margin in between.

Yeah, but like, exactly right. It's signable contract, $90,000 to the seller, home builder, $100,000. You as the middleman get a $10,000 wire check.

Yeah. So it seems like when you start with the buyer, you avoid a lot of the awkwardness. Yes, but there is still some awkwardness. How much do you disclose to the seller? Obviously, the buyer knows what you're doing, but to the seller, like, we're a wholesaler, right? We're not going to build a house on this or not.

That's, that's one thing I will say is wholesaling gets a bad rep and it has a bad stigma behind it because there's so many people that just because they're behind the telephone and don't meet these people, they can— some people that don't know what they're doing, they'll call, they'll say whatever they want, they'll make up lies. They'll say, oh, I'm the actual flipper, I'm the actual builder, I'm this, I'm that. We have always taken an honest approach. Anybody we've taught to do this, we tell them to be honest and say, hey, I work with 20, 30 builders throughout this area. I'm going to get this property. We're going to clear the trees. We're going to make sure there's no wildlife on this property. We're going to potentially get surveys. And I look to pass this off to my builder within 4 to 6 weeks. And I look to make 8 to 10% between. And we're transparent. We tell them that. And we're honest. And that's the truth. And we guarantee them that, look, I know what I'm doing in this market. I'm very familiar with land. I work with all these different connections. And if I guarantee you $40,000, you're going to walk with your $40,000 that we agreed upon. And then every seller, obviously, if they agree with your price, they're cool with that and you're honest with them and telling them the truth rather than— wholesaling gets a bad rep because people will say all these things that they're just saying.

I think most of them fail. Most, 100%. They just lie, right? So it's the more transparent you are with the sellers, the more they respect it. And I'll tell them straight up, like, I am going to try to flip this house.

And you'll get better deals when you're—

But I'm like, here's what you can do is you can— yes, you have your real estate agent barking in your ear because that's their job that says list it for $50,000. You're going to list it for 50, you're going to drop it in 6 months so you don't get an offer to 44.9, you're going to get an offer for 40, you're going to pay your agent 3% on both sides, you're going to pay 2 grand in closing costs, you're going to walk with 37.5 in 9 months. Or I can give you $39,000 and close in 3 weeks, right? Because I have someone lined up at 42 right now, right? And when you explain it like that, like, they actually are benefiting from it. You already have somebody lined up and you're not really messing with them, right? Like, we, we don't, we don't give offers that we can't follow through on because we already have the builder lined up. So unless the survey comes back and it's, it's kind of funny, one of the main things that kills a deal and basically the only thing that kills deals in Florida at least is gonna be wildlife. They have these protected turtles and owls. And that's like the only thing that basically a builder will kill the deal with because you can't build if there's these protected turtles on them. They're very expensive to remove, it's a nightmare.

What turtles?

Gopher.

Gopher. Gopher? Oh, like the big boxy ones?

It's like 6, 8 grand per turtle.

And they nest in the dirt and they're very protected out in Florida, yeah.

Oh man. Yeah. Do you go looking for turtles? Uh, like, is that part of your job? So we don't—

we never seen these lots, right? So we, we do it all virtually.

Is it nationwide or Florida? Nationwide.

Nationwide. All right, so we've done 25, 30 states now. Um, you can do it in like 44— I think there's like 6 states.

And typically your hotter markets are going to be the states that are, you know, typical hot real estate markets. Um, and the reason being is, you know, low state income tax. So Florida, obviously no state income tax. Low state income tax like Arizona, 2.5%, any of those areas are obviously going to be your hotter markets because more recently the values went up. Like Jackson was explaining, if the house— the value of house goes up, that means the value of lot went up and somebody paid cheap. You can go make your deals.

Yeah. So you hear DFW land just went absolutely crazy these last 6 years, but these last 2 years it's dipped, right? I'm actually buying a ranch right now, so I've been like looking at land all day, every day recently. Um, What do you do in markets like that? Markets that are kind of like—

So this is actually the only thing that makes a market tough is when it's stagnant. So when the market goes down, sellers panic sell, builders still buy. When the market goes up, the builders don't care what they pay because they outbid each other. So actually, when the market goes down, it's super easy. When the market goes up, it's super easy. When the market doesn't change for 6 months and the buyers and sellers kind of catch up to each other is when you kind of run into a tough market, right? So if it's going up, it's going down, it's super simple to do because because you're either getting the deals that are great—

Because we've been in both those markets and nothing's really changed, like you said, because, you know, the sellers really need to sell when it's going down and they're scared that it's going to keep dipping. Or if the market's good, you're going to sell it for a little bit more. So either way, we're in and out in 2 to 3 weeks, we make our margin, and then we're good to move on to the next.

Yeah, right. How do you protect your earnest money?

We don't put earnest money up.

So we have in our contract a clause that says we have a feasibility study up until the closing date, right? And then our earnest money is actually never due with our contract. So we'll put $100, $250, right? Like if the seller asks for it, I'll put it to the title company, but it actually is not due till the closing date. And we have a feasibility study, that means we can back out to the day of the closing date with no risk.

And then what we do is we put on the, on the builder's assignment contract, we make sure they have a due date with the earnest money, so they deposit the earnest money that is on the seller contract, right?

And there's typically even, because let's say we do a 30, 45-day close, I already have my builder beforehand. I know in I'll say 24 hours. It's usually 2 hours whether or not the builder's taking it, right? So it's never like I'm going to wait 30 days and then back out. It's like, okay, Builder Joe, buy the property, there's a bad slope on it, I have to back out, I'm sorry, within 2 hours, right? It's not like, uh, 30 days you're gonna get the— so we've never lost an earnest money deposit. Yeah, um, because it's just, it's, you're either in and out or the builder's going to put up their own earnest money deposit.

So you're, you're trying to be in and out within 2 or 3 weeks on these?

Yeah, sometimes as quick as we've done 72 hours, uh, on a closing. But typically it's going to be 2 to 3 weeks. Are you doing much in DFW, like greater DFW, or, uh, we actually have never done a ton of Texas, and there's a, there's a couple reasons for it. First is there are, uh, mass texting laws out here, right? So we do a lot of mass texting. Texas is one of those states where it's a little strict, so we've avoided it for that reason. Um, also we've had so much volume elsewhere that we just actually haven't really dug too much into this market.

Yeah.

Um, we've done a lot of Florida, Nevada, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Washington, Hawaii are going to be kind of like our—

Hawaii is actually a really hot market.

Yeah, but like Texas is— there's a lot of deals running through here. Yeah. And the thing is, is you don't do— this is a very major thing, right? Because you're not going to do Miami, it's built out already. You're going to be like 45 minutes away from a metro city. So you want to do Dallas, you would do Fort Worth, right? You want to do Austin, you would do 30 minutes outside of Austin, right? Um, so that's kind of the, the thing with all these markets is there's so many of these markets in Texas as well where there's so many new builds going up and everything like that where they're all cookie cutter lots, right? Because that's, that's the only two requirements for this is you need more than 5 newly built homes in the zip code and then you need all of the plots of land to look the same, right? So like you don't want one parcel to be 9 acres and then one to be 1 acre. If they're all 9 acres, perfect. And if they're all 1 acre, perfect. Because we're sending out mass offers. I want to send 1,000 offers at once. I can't do that if every lot's different.

What do you mean mass offers?

So for an example, if I have a builder in—

use his example of $750K.

Yeah, so if your builder's going to say I'll pay $750K for any 2-acre parcel out here, right, I'll go get a list of let's say 500 people, and those 500 people paid less than $300 grand more than 5 years ago, okay, for a property, right?

Who has equity in their properties?

So typically they're all cash, most of these lots that we're dealing with.

Okay, I mean, same thing, right? Like, what sellers probably have a lot of equity, right? They might have a note on it, it might be paid off right away, right? They've got room to work with, right?

Yeah. And we'll get this list of people, right? And then we'll get their phone numbers, and then you can either send them a mass text that says, hey, hey, I'll give you $650 grand. My favorite is actually direct mail. So we'll send them a one-page introduction letter, and then we'll send them a contract, and on that contract I'll put our offer on So I'll send out everybody to their front door, introduction to ourself, our website, and then we can give you $650,000. We can close in 3 weeks. If you're interested, give me a call back, shoot me an email.

What's crazy about mailing the contracts is when we were living in Miami, they'd mail it back to our condo. That was our return address. So we'd go down to the mailbox and every other day almost we would have a signed contract that was a deal just in there. Never spoke to the seller, nothing. They just received the contract from us, had a one-page description about our company. They would just sign it, return it back, and Deals done, right?

Every— so our, our average deal size is— we've talked about big deals and we've done deals and stuff like that, but across the board our average deals is about $8,600, uh, per deal, right?

So in like gross profit?

Yeah, just profit. Like there's— we're, we're in 90-95% margins, right?

So what, what is like the average lot size then? $50 grand? $70 grand?

Give or take, probably $50,000. So we've done, we've done lots up to $3 million. We've done lots as cheap as $4,000. Okay.

But mostly they're like mid-five-figure lots that you're making like 30, 10 to 15, 30 to 100 grand.

Yeah. Like a typical deal would be like get it for 42, sell it for 50.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. So you have this average profit of $8,000 you're going to make on a deal, right? And like at our peak and we were sending a ton of marketing to do this and this is just kind of to break down how simple it can be with the right systems and stuff is we were sending about 50,000 texts a month. We had 9 cold callers overseas making thousands and thousands of dials a day, and then we were sending about 40,000 mailers per month, right? So if you're making 90,000 offers between text and mail, and you have all these dialers making offers, and you get 10 people to say yes per month, you're making a million dollars a year. Yeah, right. So like, that's kind of the, the metrics behind it, right?

Um, and then in that amount of marketing, in a real example, our best month that we ever did was 37 deals and $532,000 in profit, right?

In one month?

One single month.

Now, TCPA, how do you, how do you work with that? And for those watching, like, that's, those are SMS texting laws.

So I, I will say, first of all, I am absolutely not an attorney. I'm not a cat. All it's just, uh, we work with the texting platforms, we talk to them. So first things first is, and this is ever-changing, right? If you're watching this a month from now, I don't know the laws. Um, we actually personally, we wanted to limit our own liability, so we do not text anymore. Um, but like, I do know a lot about the texting and stuff like that. So we would remove text Texas from our list. You obviously have to do it in certain hours, right? So if someone lives in Hawaii, I'm not sending a text at 9 Eastern, right? So you have to do it in certain hours and then you can't offer to solicit or sell something, right? So we're seeing if we can purchase, right? And then we're only doing it to certain states where it's legal. We're limiting how many we're sending out. We're doing everything correctly. There's A2P verification. So there's a lot of stuff to make sure that you're doing that correctly. But you don't have to send the mass text, right? You can do the mail. You can just personally reach out one by one, right? So there's a bunch of different ways to do it.

But like, again, definitely not an attorney, so don't just do your own research for anybody else.

Research. Well, in my experience, there's a direct correlation between your response rate and how much effort or money you put into the outreach method, right? Like if I'm sending, uh, they call it lumpy mail, right? Right. Like an actual package with like a fake mailbox in it or something.

Yeah.

Like you might spend $6 per, but your conversion rate, your close rate on that might be half a percent, whereas on a postcard it might be 0.0005%. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So like, there is a direct correlation. So everyone out there wants to— they want to send like ringless voicemails, they want to mass text, they want to cold call, cold email, because it's easy, it's low effort. But low effort often means— usually means low results, right? Yeah.

So it's a follow-up on that. So the return on, um SMS compared to direct mail. So, um, we've probably made slightly more off of direct mail than SMS. However, our SMS has a higher return because it's a lot cheaper to send. So to send 50,000 messages a month, it's about $1,200 a month to send. But all time on our texting, we have 37 times return on investment, but we would typically only spend $1,200 a month. So we'd make back, you know, $45 grand on that, $50 grand on that. Whereas we could send $20,000, $30,000 in direct mail and we could make back, you know, $100,000, $150,000. And we're making more, even though our ROI is slightly less, right?

That makes sense.

And I also—

expensive. I don't want people to get the misconception, like, keep in mind we are running a— we are running a big business with marketing spend and stuff like that. If you're just wanting to get started out on this, this is what I tell people when they ask me, right, is you don't have to spend a bunch of money on marketing because you could literally just go get a builder that says they'll pay $700,000— or $700,000 expensive, right? Like, the sellers will be very educated. Get a builder that'll pay $50 grand for a quarter-acre lot in Florida. Right? And just go for free on True People Search, look up one by one the people's numbers, and you can make 100 calls a day, right? Which is what, 36,000 calls a year? You can't get 10 people to say yes, right? That's 100 grand over the course of a year.

Yeah, and that's the thing that we always like to break down is if we talk about our profit there is if you can do one deal a month, and one deal for us takes 30, 30 minutes to an hour, if you can do one deal a month, you're making over $100,000 a year.

Yeah, right. Well, and oftentimes I like to say the harder way is the better way, right? What you just described, looking up everyone Yeah, like you're going to learn inside and out that whole process. You're going to learn inside and out how to talk to people, right? Whereas if you just hire a VA in India to call, right, A, the accent is going to turn off the vast majority of people. B, you're not going to get all the nuances. You're not going to sit there and listen to every call. And if you are, then why aren't you just calling yourself? Yeah, you're going to miss the nuances. You're going to miss common objections because the person calling for you doesn't care about you. They're just clocking in and clocking out, right? So if you do the unscalable, unsexy thing, right, and literally pick up your phone and dial that, you know, 7-digit number to everyone, your conversion rate or response rate or pickup rate, whatever it is, is going to be so much higher. 100%. Would it be if you did the scale?

That's what helped us scale our business a lot, is when someone would call in from a mailer or direct mail, all these other bigger companies or all these other companies would have a virtual assistant answer and try to close the deal. When they talk to a virtual assistant overseas that doesn't know what's going on compared to they talk to him and I, who do you think is going to get the deal? You know what I mean? So that helped us close so many more deals Whereas, like you said, people don't want to get into the nitty-gritty first before hiring people. They hire out before they've actually done it, and that leads to them messing up before they ever see success because they don't know how to actually do the processes, right?

Yeah. What, what markets right now are you having the most success in?

There's a lot of them. So I, I would say the biggest deals and stuff has been kind of when we've niched down to unique markets, right? So we would do like multi-family lots in a certain area, or we would do, uh, commercial lots on a main road, or like Uh, freshwater lots with seawalls, right? So things that not many people would think of. This is where you're hitting your $30,000, $40,000 deals. Um, but like a lot of the markets, anything Florida is going to be easy. Uh, there's a market in Arkansas that's really hot right now, Bentonville, Northwest. Yeah, very, very hot up there. A couple in Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina. More specifically, like Wilmington's always been a great market for us. Um, the Southwest Florida area, Cape Coral, Lee High Acres, Bonita Springs, like the strong economy area, 100%. Just where are all the buildings going? And like, it's crazy. You could go on ChatGPT or Google and say, where are the most new construction homes at? And it's 90% of them are going to be your hottest markets, right? It just makes sense. It's the lots have went up a lot in value. All the lots are cookie cutter. They look the same. I can make the same offers to everybody. Yeah. And there's quite literally thousands of houses like D.R.

Horton alone. I think just scattered lots is building about 25,000 to 30,000 lots per year in 212 different divisions. Right, throughout the country. Divisions, like they have a division for each specific area and region. Yeah, throughout the country.

So they'll have like their Southwest Division and their Southwest Florida, and they'll have Texas divisions and North Carolina divisions, and they'll have a land acquisition for each one of these divisions. So what— we're tight with one of the land acquisition managers, so I just email the lots to him, he goes through the approval process with them, and they will purchase the property.

Yeah, man, you guys would kill it in Houston. I lived in Houston. Yeah. They have like hundreds of mega neighborhoods. We're talking like 2,000 to 10,000 homes per neighborhood. Crystal lagoons, lakes. Like, I lived in a Houston neighborhood that had 6,000 homes, 3 community pools, a water park, 32 like individual parks. And it's like cookie cutter, you know, it's like very standardized.

Yeah, I'll be looking at that on Zillow in the car right now.

Another reason why a lot of people stay outside of Texas, as I'm sure you know, is it's a non-disclosure state. So when you look on Zillow, when you're looking at sold comparables, it doesn't show you what it sold for. Um, but you can kind of get around that if you go on Zillow, you scroll down, you can see the prices. That also means you're sort of offending— exactly, that means that nobody else is in the market.

Edge against your comp— if you're willing to do that.

But that's a reason why a lot of people stay out, which doesn't mean there's not deals.

Also, uh, another like point or like some game I can give here is when we are like going to give our offer to a seller, if we don't have a builder already, we don't go off of what things sold for, we go off of what things are listed for, right? Because if you're a home builder and the lot next door is listed for $100,000 What a lot of people mess up is they're going to say, well, you can buy this lot from me at $120,000 and you can build for $300,000 and you can sell for $500,000 and you can make $80,000. Right. And I can't tell you how often people send us deals like that. Right. But it's like, if I'm a builder, why wouldn't I just buy the lot next door for $100,000? It's the same property, right? So you always want to bring them the deal cheaper than they could ever find on Zillow, on the market. So if the lowest listing is $100,000 and I call the builder and I say, hey, I'll give you this lot for $90,000, the other cheapest you get is $100,000 right now, right?

Yeah.

They're usually going to say yes, right? And it doesn't even matter what things are selling for because the cheapest they could currently get is going to be $100,000.

And that's the thing with anybody that has a problem selling their deals or struggling to sell a deal. It's almost every single time it's because they locked it up too high and they're way too high in price. Because if you got an asset, which is real estate, which is the most valuable asset probably in the country for below market value, you can sell it for slightly below or at market value all day long. So if somebody's struggling to sell a deal and they have it locked up at $70,000, Well, maybe it's worth $65,000. If you had it locked up at $50,000, I guarantee you wouldn't have a hard time making money on it.

Right.

Yeah. Do you guys work at all in like rural areas? Like, I'm thinking like Tifton, Georgia, or like—

I don't, I don't, I don't love it because it's cheaper a lot of the times. Um, we found a couple like—

and it's slow moving.

It's slow moving, so it's harder to sell.

We want to be in and out quickly. Like, most of the markets we're in, again, so there's 5 newly built new— 5 new builders over there, so I can call all 5 builders in a day. I know it's going to close in 2 or 3 weeks or I'm terminating the contract, right? If it's rural, you have to either buy it yourself and list it. Like, there's a, there's a lot more that goes into it. Um, so we've never really done it. We've— 95% of what we've done has been just residential, and then we'll throw in a commercial. Like, when we got more experience and we've done a couple hundred deals, like, we started doing a little bit of the commercial work, which is not easy to get into as a beginner, but it definitely is very profitable if you can learn that side of things, but it's mostly just residential straight to a home builder.

Yeah. So I think one thing that makes this podcast different is I've launched so many different businesses that oftentimes I just happen to interview people that are doing something that I've done, right? Right. You're doing it better than I did and way more at scale. Like, I just dip in and out of things, right? So I, I don't have a lot of deep experience in one niche, but I have a very broad experience in a lot of niches. So One publicly traded company that's doing this with homes, which I'm sure you've heard of, is Opendoor.

Okay.

Have you heard of them? I haven't. So obviously Zillow tried this a few years ago, not with land, with real estate. And Zillow's model was, all right, this home's fair market value is $500,000. We're going to pay $450,000. We're going to like take care of the closing fees and all that and we're going to sell it for $480,000, you know, like slightly under market. We buy slightly more under market and sell it for a slight profit. And they lost their shirts. They completely lost their shirts. They shut it down after a couple of years. Their stock price tanked and they were like, we are not going to be in the home buying and selling business anymore. We're going to stay a technology company. Opendoor has been around for a while and I could be misquoting this, so no one— yeah, but like they've struggled. Their stock price has gone up recently because they have a new CEO that's very loud and flashy. But from what I understand, it's not reflected in their actual financials. And what they're trying to do is home buying and selling at scale. Not, not wholesaling, but they're actually buying the homes and selling them at scale. It's like e-buying, right? But I— so that's kind of what me and a business partner did like 5 years ago.

Okay.

Um, what we would do is every morning we would scrape Zillow listings, everything nationwide. Yep. And we would take the Zestimate, and then we would take the list price, and we'd take days on market, and we would just like cut it in half and say which homes are way under this estimate. We all know it's not accurate, but I think usually it's pretty accurate.

Yeah, yeah.

A lot of times it's not, right? And we would just send out mass texts, mass offers, and we ended up locking up a bunch of properties in like the most random places. And what do we do? We lost our shirts, right? And I'm getting— I think what you're doing is smart, so I'll get to it. Yeah, but my point was And my learning here and why I won't invest in Opendoor as a company and why Zillow failed at this is because there are so many little local nuances. This, like the school district isn't even that little. That's, that's pretty public. But like little nuances like this employer moving into town or this, the smell from this cattle lot right down the road and like termites that a guy in Florida would never know about. All the like the clay is expansive and the foundation has issues where the locals know all about it. That home's been on the market for 2 years, and from 2 states away, it's like, this is such a deal, right? But the guy next door is like, no crap, it's way overpriced because X, Y, and Z is true that no one else knows about. So what you're doing, I think, is really smart because of the fact that it's land, right? Your variables are cut down by like 90%.

So everything you'll need to know is going to either be on a county website or the, the aerial view, right?

So like— or sorry to cut you off, Justin, when you're looking at a comparable for a house, there's so So many different things that can go into it, right? One could have another bedroom. One could be 20 years newer than the one right next door. One could have a pool, right? There's so many things that can go— that can be different. But if you're looking at a quarter-acre lot that has no trees on it and it's just a flat, empty lot in Florida, no flood zone, and you see one 3 lots over—

turtles—

yep.

This one, this one just sold for $40,000 and you get this one at $30,000, you can most likely sell yours for $40,000 because the other one is exactly the same. There's no extra bathrooms, there's no extra bedrooms, there's no pool. It's all exactly the same.

Yeah. And a lot of people compare house flipping and house wholesaling and all that stuff to what we're doing, and I don't think it's even in the same ballpark as a business model. I think we're more similar to like a dropshipping store where you get someone to buy a t-shirt for $20 and you get it for $10 and you make $10 in the middle, right? Like, that's more of what we're doing than house flipping itself, right? And there's so many different variables like you mentioned, and you could get a property and it has termites in it and it has, uh, the, the roof didn't come back as good as you thought. And even though the, the inspection report didn't have this electrical issue, the foundation's wrong. And a lot of people lose money on houses and stuff like that. So I, I completely agree. And we don't, we don't touch houses. We won't even—

and we've done one or two just because it fell in our lap and we're good at wholesaling. Um, but it was a nightmare compared to land. And then another beautiful thing about land, which I love and why we got into this business model to begin with, is when you're selling a wholesale house, right, when you have a property under contract, you're selling, you're selling to a flipper That's buying what you had some experience buying, 2 to 4 houses a year, typically a flipper. They're cash-strapped because they have to invest themselves. When you're selling to a DR Horton, they're a multi, multi-billion-dollar company buying 30,000 lots a year. You can rinse and repeat and sell these deals over and over again and do 10, 20 deals a month with one builder. Rinse and repeat in the same areas compared to with a house, you know, it's one and done. You're not going to repeatedly sell to that builder.

Someone lives there. So like if we were getting a deal and I sent a deal to a builder on email right now, he might say, okay, I'm going to go drive the lot. I'll let you know in 15 15 minutes. If I was selling a house to somebody and I, I'm in Texas and they're in Florida and I have a seller at $200K and a buyer at $250K, they're going to meet in the house. What are the odds they go and meet at the house and don't talk about the price and cut you out in 2 seconds? Yeah, right. Or get upset or something goes wrong, then someone has to move out of the house. So then you're making someone move out of the house, get movers, they move, then they're going to do inspections and try to talk you down. It's, yeah, it's just a model that I completely avoid. Um, the one thing I will do is which is luxury, which is something we've gotten into a little more recently, is teardowns, right? Because when I'm looking at a teardown, which— a teardown, to explain that, is if it's a beautiful property that you could build a $10, $20 million house on the water in a metro—

like a low supply neighborhood, right? Right.

Like a— you could build a $15 million house on this lot, but the house that's on it right now was built 70 years ago and it's 1,000 square feet, right? So when you buy the house from that person that might have paid $100 grand for it, you can give them $3 million because you're just going to bulldoze the house and build a luxury home, right? So, but again, when you're doing that, you're just looking at it as land value. You're not looking at it as a home.

Yeah. Um, now even though there are a lot fewer variables on land versus homes, surely there's been some times when you lock something up under contract and then you realize, oh crap, oh, it happens often. Like, we didn't realize X, Y, and Z, like this thing's coming into town. Tell me some stories about that happening.

Yeah, so we've never lost necessarily, 'cause we could just back out.

'Cause of how your model is.

Right, right.

So we can just send a termination email the way that our contract is structured and then back out.

So what are some things to look out for?

Wetlands, wetlands. So like you can see this on the aerial.

Not a flood zone, but wetlands?

Wetlands. So what, like it would mean, so, and you can see this from the aerial, is the trees on it will look gray on Zillow. And if the trees are green, it's fine. If the trees are gray, it means that it's flooded, the trees are dead because there's water there. So it might cost literally a couple hundred grand to fill in the dirt, right? So Bonita Springs, this is where we got the lot for $165,000. Wetlands report came back 40% clean. If it came back 100% clean, so we sold it for $275,000, we would have sold it for $600,000 if it was 100% clean. The lot next door, I got under contract for $145,000. We couldn't sell that lot because it was 100% wetlands. So the lots range from $135,000 or $90,000 to $600,000 based on a simple survey because of the the, like, side by side it could be, right? Just based on how much water is on this property.

So that's like some of the properties in Arkansas have slope, so you can only build if they're, you know, 10-foot setback on the slope, or if it's 100-foot setback, whatever it is. The slope can differ a lot and it can range from being worth $5,000 up to $25,000 in that area.

Uh, utilities, right? So you could either build well/septic if there's no utilities, or if there's utilities or water/sewer connection, then it's going to be worth a lot more. You can check this on the county appraisers.

If there's a seawall, it's worth about $20,000 to $30,000 more.

Seawall if it's on the water. Um, what else kind of affects value?

Trees, but it's only a couple grand.

That's basically about water rights or mineral rights.

We've never done too much with that, to be honest.

Or like well depth.

Yeah, I never— a huge perk test is a big one.

Yeah, right.

In North Carolina, it's a big one.

You have to like see if it's buildable. Um, and it's state-by-state dependent, right? And like everybody watching this, like we're it probably sounds like a foreign language, some of these words we're saying. We have no idea. Like, if I did a new state tomorrow, I would learn new words. Like, like, yeah, but we got into a market the other day and like scrub jays, right? What's a scrub jay? It's a protected bird in this area. Yeah, right. So you learn all this as you go, and you just basically just call the city and say, what does this mean? How do I get a report for it? So it's all very simple stuff. Yeah, but that's— and this is also very seldom, right? Like maybe 5% of the properties have an issue with it, or yeah, a power line running through it. A big thing else that builders don't want is main roads. Right? Like, nobody wants to live on a street that's on a highway, right? So like, they don't want main roads. Of course, wildlife, slope, wetlands, um, utilities help. Yeah.

Um, but again, the beauty of it is because we talk to the builder first, they tell you a lot of these things beforehand, right?

Yeah, right.

Yeah. I mean, I'm looking at land right now, and I, I wanted to research if I could put in a well. And there's a public directory, state mandate, of all the wells in Texas.

Is it an oil well?

Is it a wastewater, you know, whatever. And I noticed in my area there were no wells. And in asking Claude and everything, it was like the aquifer was 1,000 feet down, but then 5 miles south everyone had a well. Really? Because the aquifer was 40 feet down, you know? So it's like little nuances like that that there actually are tools for most of the time, but you have to know about them and like which tools to look for. I like your like gray and green tree example.

Yeah.

What other kind of hacks or tricks like that do you look for? For that doesn't require sophisticated tools?

Here's a big one, is, um, so there's a website called True People Search, and you can put in an address and it'll show you who the owner is. Yeah, exactly. So if we get a deal, even if I have a builder, the first thing I do is I call the neighboring houses, right? Because the most annoying thing as a homeowner— you're driving over nails, you do not want new construction next door. So I always call the next-door neighbor. Hey, I just want to give you the courtesy, I am planning on selling this to a home builder, the lot right next door to you, right? A lot of times this person lives out of the state, they've never been able to reach them. They just know there's a lot next door, right? I always like to call the neighbor as a courtesy in case you want to extend your yard, put a pool back there, um, see if they're an interested buyer. Exactly. And they pay over market value.

And the thing about the neighbors is it depends if they have the cash or not, but they will always make an offer. Yeah, sometimes it's way below what you have it at, but it's always worth—

because you don't want— it's new construction, it's loud, you're driving over nails. Like, so a lot of times they like the yard there for parking, whatever it may be, right? So, and like, if the land is relatively cheap, like they'll take a second mortgage out, like it actually has real value to them.

Yeah.

So we sell a lot of deals to the next person.

You say that they'll pay more because I'm living proof of this. So I live on 2 acres and there was a 1-acre lot behind me and I live on a road and then there's a road behind me on that 1-acre lot. And so that lot faces that road south, right? My lot faces north, right? And I always wanted to put a road through the entire property that connected, like my road that connected the road in front of me to the road behind me.. And finally the guy behind me puts up his 1-acre lot for sale that had a warehouse on it for $470 grand. And it sat for over a year because this was worth like $400 max.

Okay.

And it had a mobile home on it.

Yeah.

There was just a lot of hair on it. And it sat and sat and sat. And I talked to him and he wouldn't budge at all because he wasn't motivated. He just wanted to see. And finally I was like, $470. Wow. Like, I overpaid and I knew I overpaid, but I don't regret it at all. I knew what I was doing. I own it now. I own the whole strip. I have my own road. Yeah. Because you have— you have real value for it, right?

You're not just putting a spec home.

No one else would pay them that.

Exactly. So that's like we every single time, every single time, neighbor. And then when the deal closes, um, we try to go ahead and get referrals. Is any— anyone else you need?

So we made a lot of money off of this, which it's technically free. So what we would do is when we had a deal close, we would have our executive assistant, she would handwrite a thank you letter to them and say, hey, if you had a good experience with us, if you refer a family member or a friend to sell their property with us and we get a deal done, we'll send you $1,000 in cash.

Like a joint venture deal with them.

So we did about 28 or 29 deals like that last year just off the referral deals.

See, that's what people get wrong about referrals is they're stingy with it, right? It's like, I'll give you a $50 Amazon gift card, right? But you just said the value of your deal is $8,600.

Exactly.

So $1,000 is like, it still gives you enough meat on the bone.

And the way we look at it too is that's just $7,600 in profit. That doesn't come out of our pocket. When the deal closes, we pay them $1,000. We didn't actually have to pay that, right?

Right. What other kind of hacks like that, like tools or ways of looking at Google Maps, or—

yeah, I mean, the, the biggest thing I can say is just to be consistent, really. Like, there's not— it is really, it really is simple, right? Like, it's, it's just you're finding a builder and then you're finding someone to sell for less and you're connecting the two with the contracts. I would just say the biggest thing is being consistent with it every single day. And the majority of people that stick to it and they are consistent, they get the experience. Once you get to that first deal, it's It's the same process every single time over and over again, right? So that's basically it, right? It's just staying consistent with it. It's the same thing as everything, right? Like you're able to grow this podcast so big 'cause you're doing multiple podcasts a week. You're doing it like, you get better as you go, right? It's the same thing with this, right?

So just— And a lot of people are just scared to start because they're scared to make cold calls or they don't wanna put themselves out there or start to do it. But that's the reason why they'll fail. If they just started doing it, think of if you made 50 cold calls a day for a year, how much better you would be at it a year later. And then all of a sudden you're an expert and you can talk to these sellers and you know what you're doing and you know what price to offer and you know what to talk about in the area. And it's like you didn't just learn that or nothing magic happened. You're not using a magic website. You just put yourself in this situation for a year and now you're an expert, but it just is from doing it, right?

You know, as far as cold calls go, like, I'm introverted. I hate cold calls. When I started one of my bigger businesses, we sold wholesale iPhone parts, okay? And we did millions of dollars and I never made one cold call. I outsourced it to 3 virtual assistants in the Philippines and it worked. I'm sure it would've worked better if I did it myself, but I didn't want to. Yeah. But in the, you know, I've done real estate for a long time and I spent 3 years doing it full time and I made a lot of cold calls during those years. And I noticed that those cold calls were a lot less intimidating cuz you're not actually like, you're, you're selling them on the idea of selling their home or to the builder of buying a lot from you. But literally you're not selling to them. Yeah. You're trying to give them money.

100%.

And a lot of people have a misconception of— because with wholesale houses, I know you got to build rapport and you have a 20, 30-minute conversation. Well, our conversations with these sellers are no longer than 90 to 120 seconds. Typically, we get on the phone, it's a numbers game. We're just in and out. If they want the price, great. We're gonna have a quick conversation, make an offer, move on to the next. Um, like how a call would go is if I'm calling you right now, I would say, hey Chris, this is Carson. You just spoke to my assistant. I'm interested in purchasing your property, 123 Southwest Street. You're gonna say, oh, you know, like, how much do you want to pay? I saw you wanted $20,000. I can actually give you $16,500 and I'll cover the closing fees. They're either gonna say, oh, come on, can you do $18,000? Can you do $19,000? Or they're gonna say, no, that's too much. I say, all right, no worries, save my number, write it down. If you're ever interested in selling, that's where I'm at. Have a good day. That's the whole call. Yeah, like, he's had calls— he likes to get them to sign on the phone, Jackson. I typically let him wait for the night or I get him to sign the next day. He likes to get them to sign right on the phone. He will have a call where he calls a seller for the first time, speaks to them for the first time, and has a contract signed within 5 minutes. First touch point, first touch point, the contract signed. That is the one thing that's So these conversations are not as hard as people think.

Yeah, that's one more, uh, piece of game. I will say that this has made us at this point probably over a million dollars, is every call from the beginning, if we did not agree on price, I would say, you know what, save my name, Jackson Land Guy. And when— if you need to sell for whatever reason, if you need cash, I will be able to close in 2 weeks. Whenever I go, my price— not my tomorrow's price, not— might not be today's price, but I'm always buying land. Save my number as Jackson Land Guy, right? I did a 100 cold calls a day for 3 years, right? Like, that's 100,000, whatever it may be. Like, there's a trickle in, and it's just like every single day you're just casting a fishing line out, right? And eventually you're going to start to catch fish, right? And it's— we have made so many deals from that. When they come back 6 months later, it's not the price you offered them, it's name your price, because they're calling for a reason, yeah, right? So that, that's one piece, and that's free to do, right? No one really does that. It's just like they get upset if they don't accept their offer, they hang out.

Yeah, or like I said, they go with that other approach approach and piss the person off, it's like you're not going to have a connection and they're not going to come back and want to work with you if you're not being polite to them, right?

So do you— will you not budge on your price then?

So I, I, we don't, we don't, we don't lowball at all. So I, I come in with a very strong offer, and my thing is I'll always go up to the next thousand, but I won't live negotiate. So like, it— I learned it early that like if you try to— if it's— so if I offer $16,500 and a seller's like, I'll sign $17,000 right now, if I say yes they don't end up signing. But if they say, will you— Really? But for whatever reason. No, I can see, it's huge. But if they say, can you do 17? Alright, I'm gonna put you on hold for 2 minutes, I'm gonna run into my partner's office, I'll be right back, don't hang up. Hey Carson, can we do 17? Yes. Cool, wait 90 seconds. Awesome, we're good to go. Right? And just that, that—

Or you gotta hem and haw.

Or even on a text message back where we'll send a message out, we get a response. Let's say we're gonna sell it for $25,000. If they text back and say I want 20 plus closing costs, We're not going to say yes again because then they're going to think about it. They're going to go shop it around. They might not say yes. They're going to think we're all over it. So we'll say, I'll do $19,000 plus closing costs. Again, not because we want to get greedy and get the extra $1,000, but that's going to help us get the deal signed a lot more than just agreeing.

Yeah, man, I'm just thinking of how smart that is. Yeah, this is just— it's just like you're not trying to extract every penny out of this little—

we don't try to get greedy.

This is the price.

Yeah, it's just like if I have a builder at $60,000, right, like I'll see be okay. They paid 9 grand. Like, I'll explain everything to them. I'm like, you list on the market, be like, right now I can get you— I said $50,000— right now I can get you $44,000 plus all closing costs, and I can close in 21 days. And I'm just— I'm literally taking the exact conversation I have with the builder, subtracting $6 grand.

Yeah, right.

And you can tell them the truth. The lowest listing on the market right now is $55,000. It's been sitting there for 92 days. If they pay out realtor fees, they're gonna lose $4 grand off the bat. If they pay out closing costs, they're gonna lose $2,200. There's $6,200 off the $55,000. If they get an offer— if they get an offer for 90% of market value, which is typical for real estate, they're getting an offer for $45,000. They already lost the other $6,200. They're walking away with $39,000 plus closing costs. I'm offering you $39,000 plus closing costs. We're going to close in 30 days. And I do this all the time. It's going to be a smooth process. And then they say yes, you sell it for $45,000, you make $6,000. Everybody wins.

Yeah. How much do you try to like— I'm sure it's completely different working with the builders, do they try to strong-arm you?

Or like, if their actual price is 60, are they like, I need to pay 45? Again, so we're going in markets with more than 5 builders, right? So like, if, if they're lowballing me, I'll call them out for it, right? And they already gave me their price beforehand and I told them yay or nay. Um, the builders are like, they're actually a lot better to work with than you'd think. They, they are amazing to work with because they're, they're making 6 figures on these builds, right? Like, they're competing with each other. So to have someone that can bring them 30 deals a month, like, they're not going to risk us going to work with somebody else because we're bringing them a lot of volume.

And that's the thing too, people ask me this question all the time. I was talking with somebody yesterday about it, is how do I build a good connection with a builder? I'm trying to reach out to these builders, I've never done a deal before, and I can't get them to really be really interested in what I'm bringing them. And the only way to build a good connection with the builder is by bringing them a good deal, right? When we would bring builders good deals, they would text us every single morning. Yeah. Hey Carson, hey Jackson, you got more deals? You got more lots? You got more lots? I want to buy more lots. They want more.

To the opposite of that is you can actually push them up and they would respect that, right? So I was bringing this one builder, I was bringing him 10, 12 deals a month. And after running the same campaign for a little while, we kind of rinsed the campaign out. And I'm like, listen, I can't get these to you at $40,000 anymore. If you bump your price to $42,500, I'm good to go. Otherwise, like, I'm not going to be able to bring you these deals at $40,000 anymore. Right. And it's okay, fine. $42,500 works. Right. And you can actually bump their price, bump their price. And I'll tell them what I'm making. Like, they don't care. Right. And then if you get a good deal, right, like if they're paying $42,500 and I get one at $17,000, hey, I appreciate the work, take this one at $38,000, right? And they really appreciate that stuff like that. But some of the— honestly, the investors are bad, the builders aren't. So the investors that are land banking and stuff, they will try to lowball you, right? And like, we're investors, we buy lots from assignors all the time. So, but I'm like, I'm the last person you want to sell to because if I'm buying a lot to invest in it, I'm at 60%, 70% of market value. So if you exhausted all your resources and you really can't sell it, I'll take an asset at 60% of market value, but I'm not the buyer that you want to work with. And that's how most investors are.

Do you ever buy stuff on the market?

So here's the only way to do on market and how to flip on market, in my opinion, with land, is you have to get it early, right? So anything that's been there for a while, there's usually something wrong with the lot, wildlife, whatever, um, because land at good prices moves quickly. But if I was trying to— if I had a builder, right, in hot market, right, like a, a Bella Vista, Lehigh Acres, like there's dozens of listings a day. If I just go and I have notifications on and first thing in the morning, and as the new ones come in, if I'm the first person to make an offer— if they listed at $40,000 and I offer them $20,000, 10-day close— they might say yes. But if they're, they're in it for 3 months, they probably already have another 40 offers. But if you're the first one to make the offer, you got a good chance at it. Otherwise, you don't really have a shot.

Is that, is that a viable model to just do that? Yeah, it works to babysit those listings, set up notifications.

It works. We had somebody that just did one. He got a property that was, I believe it was listed, and he got it for $1 million. Yeah. And he had builder at $1.11. 30 days later, it was his first land deal. He got $110,000 wire. Just straight market. Got it for a million, sold it for $1.1 million to a builder in Orlando.

A lot of people do bad business in the whole wholesaling game and stuff, and we've always just taken the approach of just do the right thing, like build relationships with everybody. And because we've always done it that way, people will bring us deals. Everything always works out. Like, there's, there's an endless amount of deals, right?

There's a million. It's not worth wasting your time or spending your time focusing on a deal that's not gonna happen or deal that somebody else has under contract. And so many people waste so much time on leads they shouldn't be continuing to follow up with and deals they shouldn't be focusing on because there are so many deals out there. The deals are endless.

Yeah.

You don't need to be spending 3 weeks on a lead that's not going to sell to you.

You know, I feel like this is so much better than wholesaling homes. I, I remember distinctly I was following some guy back when I was doing that and he was like, if you're in a house, you're doing a walkthrough of a home, you're trying to wholesale and there's really nothing wrong with it. Always just tell them that, oh, the layout, the layout's bad, the layout's bad. This, like, that's always the— and I'm like, that's just so scuzzy, right? It's—

and you would be shocked at some of the things that I hear being in the industry. Like, and that's what— like, we've always taken this— like, this is why we do the Builder Method, because like, I can't sit there and lowball all day. Like, I just don't have it in me to do it. Like, the best case scenario for a household seller is to lowball them, right? And they will sit there and make stuff up, even with the land sometimes. Like, I, I've heard of people making up that there's wildlife on the property when there's there's not wildlife. It's like they're never going to build a real business like that. You're never going to build real relationships. You're not going to be able to scale like that essentially. Right. And it's, we've always taken the approach of the base hits. Right. And like we'll do 35K deals in a month. Right. And it's very, very successful. But then like our big month, for an example, we got 2 big deals that also come in that month. Right. So which just happens based on volume. But yeah, it's, it's definitely a tough industry and anyone that's looking to get into this whatsoever, like just do good business, right? Like, I promise the karma is not worth it.

Yeah. Yeah. What are your monthly and yearly numbers look like right now?

So we're doing anywhere from like $100,000 to $300,000 a month. Sometimes we have big deals come in, right? And this is 90% margins. We've done— we've had a couple of months where like we've had deals fall through. We've done like $70,000. But outside of that, we've done over $100,000 a month for the last 40 months straight, give or take.

And growing.

Yeah.

So this is kind of why it's an interesting model, right? Like,—

It's lumpy.

Two, two of our three biggest months ever were in 2023 when we had little experience because there is $150,000 or $220,000. You know what I mean? So like big deals skew everything. Yeah. But the actual knowledge in our business itself has grown, if that makes sense. Oh yeah. Right.

So like they compound.

Right. But like you can't, I, I never track these on like a month by month.

You have to look at it kind of quarterly.

You did this for your growing. It's hard.

It's like if, if we have $190,000 deal and then we have two more, $40,000 deals that were supposed to close in May get pushed to June 1st, like, then June is a $400,000 month, and then July, a deal gets pushed into August, so we did $100,000. We might have had a better month in July, but the numbers don't reflect it, right? So it's kind of a hard business model with metrics. Um, our biggest year was $2.1 million in assignments, $1.7 million in profit, right? And that was with the team and stuff like that.

But the craziest thing about that year is we did, uh, 239 land deals that year. Almost a deal every single business day. I think there's 255 business days, so we were almost a deal a day every single day.

What does your team look like?

So we have, uh, one assistant that sends— transaction coordinator, right? Sends our contracts. Uh, yeah, United States. Um, contracts, title work, um, keeps the sellers happy, right? Because you're doing 30 deals a month, right? Here's what you have to— and guys, 30 deals a month is significant numbers. Like, anything over like 10 deals a month, you're looking at about a million bucks a year. Um, so with this is we are dealing with— so 30 deals a month, or you have 30 closings 30 new ones going into escrow, which means you just got a buyer, seller, 30 ones going into your inventory, 30 more contracts going out, right? So I'm dealing with 120 sellers, 90 buyers, probably 50 title companies, 10 states every single month, right? So their job is to just keep everyone happy, right? When every 7 days you're calling every seller, you're getting all the contracts out, you're making sure the title work goes smoothly, um, things of that nature. Um, acquisition managers, so 2 acquisition managers. And their job is to just call sellers, agree on price, get an email, right? Then when they get that email, transaction coordinator sends a contract, right? And then Carson and I are sending the campaigns. We're focusing on big deals. We're doing things of that nature. And that's it, right?

And then we have—

and then VAs overseas as well.

How many VAs?

We've been up to 9?

We've been up to— yeah, we've been up to managing a lot. But I would say on average, probably about 5.

Yeah. Okay.

Every month.

Where do you find them?

Philippines.

Yeah.

And online? Like Upwork or—

Onlinejobs.ph. And like what we'll do, honestly, and we usually hire in bulk. When we're like scaling our VAs and we'll get 10 of them on a Zoom call, we'll ask them their experience, stuff like that. And a lot of the times you can actually find really good talent with this, right? So it's actually, in my opinion, it's harder to find talent in the States versus the Philippines because in the States, like, if they don't have a job, there's usually a reason. In the Philippines, like, a wholesale company could go under and a talented VA loses their cold calling role because that company went under, not because they're poor, right? So you get on a Zoom call with all of them, you ask them their questions, you want to find someone with experience and just someone The biggest thing is it hasn't been accent, it hasn't been how smart they are, it's how friendly they are and their attitude. That's been it. And the difference in their attitude is the difference in one that brings in 3 leads a day and 12. Yeah, right. Just because people enjoy talking to them, they're not going to hang up early. Um, so we just look for—

we would, we would mass interview on Zoom. So we would get, you know, 50 people to come show up to a meeting. It would be a very simple interview, it'd be 20 minutes. It would say, hey, here's my— what I do, here's my vision, here's what we're doing with the company, here's the position we're looking for. I want you to tell me your name, I want you to tell me your experience Who you are, quick little story about yourself, and then we'll go one by one by one. And then from that you can kind of get a gauge on somebody's personality, how they would, like, how they would speak to you. And, um, that's what we hired a lot of them. We got up to over 20 cold callers at one time.

So, well, Filipinos naturally have two things going for them. They're very friendly by nature and their accent is pretty solid. Yeah. Um, have you seen, have you seen what Theo Von says about Filipinos?

No, no.

He, he, he loves them.

They're also one thing I'll mention too, very, very loyal. Yeah, very— we've had some with us now for over 4 years, right? Like, amazing.

I've worked with the same Filipinos for like 13 years.

And also, apart to the people that, uh, give a bad rep in wholesale, a lot of people are rude and disrespectful to virtual assistants. So if you treat them nicely, they are so loyal, so hardworking, and work so hard for you if you were just nice to them and treat them like a normal person. Because most people don't, which I don't understand.

What tools are in your tool belt? Like, what tech What's your tech stack?

Tech stack, so yeah, um, BuyerBridge is a big one, right? So this was, uh, we actually developed this software over a couple years, and this is, uh, going to be what it is. And we're launching V2 in the next couple weeks, so excited about that. But it has— it's a full-blown CRM for, like, it was built— like, nothing in the past was ever built for land flipping. It wasn't a thing, right? So this is strictly built— your CRM, it's your title work, it's your contracts. And then it has, uh, 12,000 buyers right now. Has about 6,000 buy boxes. So what they're looking for— contact information, uh, networks, you can partner with other people and stuff like that. So that is one that, uh, transparently I developed for myself, and then it just happened to be able to be a cool software. Um, Land Portal is a good one. Land Portal, PropStream. So what those two do is— so like, I now have my buyer, right, and they want to— in a certain zip code, right? So then with Land Portal, PropStream, you can pull a list of that— all the, the owners, their mailing address, their first, last name, their property address, right? So that's where you get your lead list from. Um, then you go to— we use Kind Skip Tracing, which is how you get their phone numbers, right? Um, and then if you want to send mass texting, you can use ReplySmart, you could use SmarterContact. So many. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of those.

Um, those are the main ones though. We use pretty much 3 softwares. So a list pulling software, we use BuyerBridge for CRM and buyers and contracts. Um, and then, you know, SMS if you're just standard operation. Most people just start with SMS.

Direct mail, REI Print Mail. REI Print Mail. Yeah. So they're a big one. They've always been good to us. They always help us out with the legality and stuff.

And then as far as managing the dialers with the cold callers, we've used ReadyMode and Batch Dialer.

Right. Do you use triple line dialers? Yes. Multi-line?

Yep. Yeah.

The ones— Mojo?

Never.

Mojo.

Mojo. But I've heard a lot about it. Yeah. We were on ReadyMode for a long time, and then about 6 months ago, we moved over to Batch Dialer.

But all of these tools, Again, this is to run a very high level, hundreds of deals. Like, you can start with nothing. Like we did, we were pen and paper, whiteboard, and just cold calling ourselves for the longest time.

Can people start this with nothing? Oh, 100%. iPhone, internet connection.

Yeah, 100%. Like, I wish you— like, for an example, I wish you wouldn't have told me you just bought that lot next door because I would have said, hey, would you like your neighbor? And then I would have found their number on my phone, called them, and made them an offer, right? And just like, like, that's how you— it's as simple as that though, you know what I mean?

Like, you're right.

You're at your, your buddy's house and you ask their dad like, hey, I see there's a lot next door. How much, how much is that worth to you? Yeah, cool. Call him, right? Or just go look up builders, right? Go on Zillow. And this is the free way to find your builders is you go on Zillow and Zillow.com, free website, everybody, and you filter it by houses built in 2025 or 2026, right? For sale. Because what this means is if they built a house in 2026 and it's for sale, they're building houses to resell them. So they need more land to build more houses, to resell homes.

They're not exactly custom, like, built on their own lot.

Because if I built my own home, I'm not going to list it for sale. Right. So it's someone that's building homes to resell them and it'll literally say their name and their phone number on Zillow.

Yeah.

Call them. Hey, you just built this house, 123 Main Street. Do you want more land? They say yes. Now you have your little buy box. Then you just click on the lots and you can either go on market or off market, find their phone numbers for free and just call them and offer them $5,000 to $10,000 less than the builder will pay. That's it.

Right. And that's the beauty of knowing this. Skill now is him or I say this all the time, we joke about it. If we lost everything, if we went bankrupt today, we could go into a public library completely for free, go on Zillow and make $20K a month wholesaling land in Lehigh Acres.

Yeah, with a flip phone.

Like, phone, specifically public library. That would probably be the first one. It's the easiest for us, I would say.

But is it big enough?

Like, oh, there's, there's so many lots off market right now.

Oh my God.

And there's probably—

I think there's 9— there were 909 sales in the last 90 days vacant land.

Yeah, like Couple thousand a year easily.

Like, holy crap, we've probably done over 300 deals there at least.

So, all right, so that's how you find the builders. Zillow, right? What's the best, most efficient way to find sellers if you don't have access to sophisticated software or a bunch of money?

Honestly, yeah, you could literally do it again.

You could find them.

Zillow, click on Zillow, right? So like they say they want a lot, you can just click on the lot, look the address up on True People Search. Okay, we'll give you their number, just call the seller, right? And then, uh, You can— I mean, you could find this very, very easily, or you could just ChatGPT, write me a signable contract legal in all 50 states for vacant land. Yeah, put it— send it on a free contract service, and you got your seller contract. Do the same thing with the buyer contract, do it to your buyer, and then you just send it both to the title company with all the contact information. So the seller information, the buyer information, your information, the two contracts. You wait 2 to 3 weeks, you get your wire for the difference.

Two people we recently showed did it for free. One person made $5,200 in their first 14 days, which was kind of quickest we've seen someone start to get paid, which was crazy. And then somebody else did 3 deals for $9,500 in assignments, completely for free, marketing for free. He didn't even have an LLC set up yet, right?

Yeah. What, um, what's like the downside of this industry? Like, every industry has trade-offs, every industry has downsides.

I, I would— the, the one, and this is why as of recently we've started some new business ventures, is it's not something you're going to exit, right? So like, we, we've done over the past 4 years now, we've done a little over $6 million in profit. And if we shut down our business tomorrow and we fired our employees and we stopped working on it, it's not a business I could sell. Right. So like if I started an insurance company, for example, and it did $6 million in profit over 3 years, I'm probably selling that for $20 million. Right. So that's the one thing is like I haven't seen really someone get a big exit from it other than— and other than that, I can't really think of much.

Yeah. Which why, why I think it's one of the best ways to get into real estate is because, A, you can make a lot of cash flow. You know, which is hard in real estate because you typically have to have a bunch of money to put into if you want to make any sort of cash flow or build any equity or get any money in long term. Um, and then the other thing is that you get a lot of experience and connections. So you're dealing with sellers, you're dealing with interesting people that own land, you're dealing with realtors, you're dealing with agents, you're dealing with builders, you're dealing with the biggest home builders throughout the country. Is you're dealing with all different sorts of people in the real estate world where you're dealing with land, you're dealing with houses, you're dealing with builders. It's a great introduction to real estate And especially if you ever thought about building or if you ever want to do development later on, it's a great first step to get capital, make connections, and learn the ins and outs of actually what goes into it.

I will say the biggest, the biggest, uh, downside that we experienced with it is being new to business when we started and making a lot of money was having to pay Uncle Sam at the end of the year, right? Like, it's very high profit margins, there's not many write-offs. It's like, if you guys get started in this and you make a lot of money, you're writing a big check to the IRS at the end of the year, right? So that was— that's been our biggest downside, I would say.

So the playbook is generate a contract on ChatGPT, and you probably want a lawyer to look over that, right?

And you can find one on YouTube, like, that you can get one.

Sure. An assignable contract. Yep. I would start with my local area just because I feel comfortable there, and I think it's easier to buy and sell to people that feel an affinity towards you because you're local, right? And you just literally go to Zillow, you find your builders, get their price, put them in a Google Sheet, right? You go back to Zillow, find your lots, Go, go find a neighborhood that you're familiar with. Put it on that Google Earth mode. Oh, that one's, that one's blank, right? There's no home there. Who owns it? Give them a call. True People Search. And just do that over and over and over.

100%.

If, like, realistically, if you're okay at making these calls and you make 1,000— like, let's say you talk to 100 people, not just 100 calls, but you have 100 conversations with people a day that own these lots total. Are you gonna get a sale from that or do you need more volume?

I mean, some people will get a sale on their first call. Some people it could take 2, like it, I can't give a good metric for this because everybody, like there's also people that are way more aggressive, right? So if I have a buyer at $100,000, if you offer them all $98,000, you'd make probably 6 sales. If you offered them all $40,000, it might take you 1,000 calls, right? So it depends what your offers look like. Um, I will say though, which is not impossible, right? So like people wanna hustle, I'll do anything, whatever. Like, you could talk to 100 people a day. Yeah. And I can guarantee anybody that does that, that's making 36,500 offers, $10K less than a builder will pay, will make money doing this. Yeah. Right. But a lot of people just don't want to work in today's day and age.

Right.

And they'll make 11 calls and then they'll go and be like, oh, I did this for a week and it didn't work. This business model doesn't work. Right.

Yeah.

But anybody that truly works hard in this, like eventually, like you cannot fail if you don't quit at it. Right. Um, but like to answer your question, I would imagine like if you made 100— if you talk to 100 people, you—

and you're gonna have leads for sure.

Oh yeah, you're gonna be—

you're gonna be doing some research, you're gonna be chasing down some leads.

And the beauty of it is, even if you're starting out for free and if you're making those dials and you don't have the paid softwares, you have the opportunity to hit a 6-figure deal. You could hit $150,000.

That's something else I'll say.

That's the—

that's the craziest thing about this business model, which we experienced young, is I've never seen— like, and let me know, like, mate, because I know you know a bunch of business models, but I have not seen another business model where I can make a cold call to someone I've never spoken to and with no degree, no experience, no real estate license, nothing in the 30-minute phone call, make a quarter million dollars. Yeah, I've never, you know, like with just zero money.

And it's the dynamic of the call. You're offering to give them money, right? But it's not your money.

It's the builder's money. Right, right.

But he's happy. It's like everyone's happy, right? I think a lot of landowners don't realize until it's too late that land can sit for years, right, on the market. And so if you're probably already saying this, but if I'm you, I'm like, listen, go look at Zillow. Yeah, go search for like on Zillow for over a year. Most of it is land.

Exactly. And because it went up again, you're paying $2,000 a month in property tax. You're like, oh, I'll just sit on it till it's worth $50,000 and I offer them $40,000. It's like in 5 years you just lost $10,000. Like, what's the— you know what I mean? What's the difference? So when they start to understand that, because again, if they've owned it for more than 5 years and they haven't built yet, they're probably not going to. And a lot of people don't, right? They're just sitting on property tax. Right?

A lot of people haven't even been out to these properties now.

Yeah, a lot of them have been passed down, right? Yeah. Um, the, the big ones is also going to be like out-of-state owners, right? Because they purchased a lot in Florida with plans to one day build, then change of plans, right? They never built there.

Um, another thing too that we got a lot of deals off of is, is this is kind of game too, is if you get a deal with someone and they're at a good price, a fair price that you already sold to a builder, you can check their linked properties on one of those websites like PropStream, um, or Land Portal. You can see the linked properties there and And then you can obviously make a deal probably on that.

So many, so many people bought 2 lots, 10 lots. Like, we've done a 27 package of lots, right? Because a lot of times they don't just buy one, they buy them with their, their brother, their family, whatever. And they just have all these packages of lots. And most people don't just own one lot.

What is, um, what is the biggest deal you guys have ever done?

We've done 2 over $200,000 profit. We've done one that was, uh, $191,000. We've done $180,000, we've done $165,000, we've done $110,000, $110,000, um, $90,000, $85,000. Yeah, yeah, we, we're, we have someone that we are working with right now that's doing, uh, he's deciding on if it's going to be— it's a 22 package of lots in Arizona. It's either going to be $468,000 on a 2-year note or $330,000 in 30 days. So he's making a decision right now. Profit. No, none of his own money.

He was texting that yesterday, contract.

But there's a lot of people think because it's land, it's small. Like, there are very, very big deal opportunities with this.

Yeah, and that's the thing that I find interesting, and you probably will too, because a lot of people think because it's land, like he said, that it's going to be smaller spreads or that it's going to be cheaper. But keep in mind, when people are wholesaling houses, they're dealing with, you know, crappier houses, properties that are worth $80,000, $90,000, $100,000. You can deal with land that's worth $900,000, $1 million. Like you said, these properties around here are worth $750,000. If you're making 10% on $750,000, that's $75,000 in profit. Yeah, if you're making just 10%, right?

You know, a lot of people around here, like, their, their heads are still stuck in these lots being worth $550,000, right? Because they were like 2 years ago, right? That's right. They offer $657,000, it's like, shoot, this guy's an idiot.

It's like, yeah, yeah. And then exactly, you just connect the two and it's like you're just middleman in the transaction, essentially.

I love being a middleman.

Yeah, oh, it's the best.

And it's cool. Carson and I were talking about this the other day. It's like the amount of people that are being helped from this ecosystem that we're doing, right? So we're, we're, nothing would've happened in this lot otherwise, right? We're reaching out to them. And because this happens, right, a title company's getting paid on the front end, right? Then the, the, the builder has all the contractors that are getting paid. Then a real estate agent's getting paid, another title company to do the sale on the back end.

We're housing all these people.

And we're housing, you know what I mean? It all stems from that one transaction, right? And that's, the value that we bring with this, and that's why you make a lot of money doing so, right? Because you're actually bringing so much value to society and the economy when you really look at the branches of the everyone that it actually helps to get this deal to the builder.

Yeah. So you cold call me, I own a lot. Yep. How does that call go?

Hey, uh, so it depends where it came from, right? So if I'm just straight cold calling you on Zillow, right?

Uh, let's say like this is what someone watching this might do knowing nothing but what they've seen here. How is— how should that call sound for them? I'm the homeowner, you're the caller.

Hey Chris, is this the owner of 123 Main Street? Mm-hmm. Awesome, I was reaching out. Any chance would you be open to selling this property if I came in at the right price?

Oh, I don't know. I bought that to build on it and I still might one day, so I don't know. What are you thinking?

Awesome, yeah, well, what we're going to do here is we're going to come with a full cash offer. You're going to avoid all realtor fees, you're not going to pay any closing costs, right? So what I offer you is going to be net cash to you. What I can do is, again, I'm going to be able to close 2-3 weeks right now and get you a contract today at $28,000 plus all closing costs.

I mean, this one just around the corner sold for $38,000 just a couple weeks ago, so I think I'll hold out.

Awesome. So if I were to be able to do what that one sold for, is that something that you would be interested in?

Um, yeah. I mean, if you're legit and you can close fast and you actually have cash, yeah.

Okay, so one thing I will mention here is I saw that that that property actually did get listed in January. Right. So that closed last week. Right. So that's 6 months that it would take to get that money. I know it said it closed at $38,000, but a lot of time with land, they're going to pay 8% to agents and then they're going to pay about $1,500 in closing costs. Right. So I know it looks like $38,000, but then you, you take the agent commission out and you take out the, the closing costs. You're really walking with $33,000, $34,000 here. I'm going to be very transparent here as I work with a ton of builders in the area. I have someone ready to go on this deal. I'm not going to make a ton of money on this deal. I want to keep this tight. Right? Like, I am going to make a little bit, and I'll tell you exactly where my builder's at. I have a builder that'll pay $35,000 plus closing costs tomorrow, right? So what I can give you is I can give you $33,500, right? It's the same you would have got if you were the one around the corner, but instead of 6 months, it'll be done in 3 weeks. Let's go, right? So that's like— and that, that's like how some of the conversations go. Like, we wouldn't typically like to do a $1,500 deal, but like, it's too—

in the beginning, we did a couple hundred dollar deals. We were just pumping as many deals as possible. We didn't care how much it was.

Yeah, just for the volume, like momentum, right?

Right. But like, that's essentially how a lot of the calls go.

Yeah. Um, anything else that people should know about this business that we might not have covered? Um, I want people to know where to find you, but before we get—

yeah, yeah. I would say the biggest thing, if you're going to get into this and you are a beginner, until you know what to offer people don't start doing this business because that's the one thing that makes it tough is when people will mass text offers to 10,000 people and they offer them $30,000 on a lot that's worth $20,000. You will never be able to go through with that deal, but in that person's head, their lot's worth $30 grand for the rest of time. Yeah, so when people—

you ruin it for guys like you, ruin it for everybody.

Don't ruin it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, just don't mass send high offers, which so many people do.

I've gotten that a lot, right? Yeah, so I turned down $9 million for this.

Yeah, but the good thing is, is you can at least reason with the sellers and say, all right, well, you had a conversation with that person. Did they seem like they actually had $90,000 cash to give you, and they say, well, no, they didn't seem legit, they weren't actually going to close, it was a $20 earnest money deposit. And you can talk them out of it, but it does make that conversation a bit harder, right?

Yeah. Um, okay, well, that's good feedback. Anything else?

Oh, that's pretty much it. I mean, do, do your own, uh, due diligence, right? Like, don't, don't— there's 4 or 5 states where you can't do this in, right? Like, if you're going to do texting, make sure you look into the laws. If you're gonna be doing legal contracts, consult—

just get— I would just say educate yourself first before jumping into it, and then the world is your oyster, right? Yeah, you can jump in full force, make as many calls as possible, make as many offers as possible, but make sure you know what to offer. Make sure you're in a good market. Make sure you have a builder ready to go. Make sure you have the proper contracts, and then you're off to the races, right?

Well, uh, if people want more help or to learn more, where can they find you?

They can go on carsonandjackson.com, so www.carsonandjackson.com. And we have, we have free communities. We, we teach people how to do this because we have a lot of, uh, other incentives at this point where we now build houses and we have our software. So we have a lot of incentives for other people to be successful in this industry. Um, so yeah, you can find us on carsonandjackson.com.

Awesome. Thanks, guys.

Yeah, appreciate it.

Thank you.