Companies Are Panic Paying for This Skill. Here’s How to Get In⏐Ep. #264

So I met a new friend on Twitter. His name's Brandon. Why is brandon awesome? Because 5 months ago, he started an AI consulting business.

All my normal skill sets plus AI equals superpowers.

Using a lot of the same tools that I talk about on this podcast. And within five months, he went from zero to $80,000 a month.

Put a number on a proposal that.

Was kind of made you feel sick a little bit.

It did.

And he's growing every month, and it's just him, a tiny bit of overhead, working from home with a couple contractors. I firmly believe that being an AI consultant is one of the biggest opportunities that anyone in the world can take advantage of today. And so I wanted to sit him down and say, how are you doing this? How are you finding customers? How are you helping these customers? What size companies are you working with? How can we do what you do? So, without further ado, let's get straight into it. Brandon.

Yes.

Thank you for having us.

Absolutely.

Why don't you tell us who you are and what you do?

Brandon Gadoci. I own a AI consulting services company that I've started recently in the last couple months, and so married 23 years. Two kids, 16 and 15. Live here in North Dallas, and. Yeah.

Okay. So in business for two months, Three.

Months, probably four or five months now.

Okay.

Fully dedicated to this. Yeah.

Now walk us back the last couple years on what led you to this business.

Yeah, it's a. It's a funny journey a little bit. There's that kind of wandering in the desert for a while, trying to figure out, you know, where I was headed and what was going on. I sort of, in my last gig, ended up for the last three years of that, what I called AI operations. There's a woman named Rachel woods out of Austin. She kind of coined that term, but just really experimenting with how to bring this magic that was dropped on us in November of 2022. How do we take this and bring it into the enterprise, into the business in a way that actually has results and is meaningful?

Okay, so. So what was that triggering event that really made you want to go all in on this five months ago?

I've always been entrepreneurial. I've tried a million different things from little wooden coins that you give your kids when they do a good job, something called a spark shelf. My buddy had an idea with. It was it charges your phone while you put it on the end of the. I've started websites. I've always been entrepreneurial. When I was, like, 12, somebody gave me a pen, like an ant or something would give you a really nice pen that had your initials on it. It was in a little box, and I opened it up and had my. My initials on it. And I thought that'd be cool to have, like, a. Like a business someday that was, you know, BG consulting or something. And so as these forces sort of aligned and I saw that, you know, I was super curious about this technology and the way that it worked and passionate about learning it. And then what was happening in the market, it just seemed like everything just fell together. I've told people for a long time that if it's the way that you're supposed to be going, it won't be. It'll be hard, but it won't be complicated. And that's what I feel like happened with this. And so it's been. It's been challenging, but it hasn't been complicated.

It's like it was a clear path.

Yeah.

But it was still difficult. And that was your signal that you were on the right path.

Yeah, it just finally, it finally, it felt like there was wind in the sails. Like, a lot of times things that I've done, I feel like I'm just paddling, paddling and paddling, and. And this time it felt like, oh, I'm getting a little momentum.

Yeah.

As well.

And you could call that product market fit. Right. When just like, it's. The signals are telling you this is the right thing. And it's tough because sometimes business doesn't look like that and you're still on the right path. Right. Sometimes business is pushing a boulder up a hill and it just keeps coming back down. And I think sometimes people hit that and they're like, oh, I'm in the wrong business. Not necessarily. That's like 80% of the time, but occasionally you catch lightning in a bottle and you're like, oh, like I'm sailing and I'm cruising like this. Yeah. I can't handle all this wind.

Yeah. And it's such a contrast because I've been in that, you know, push the bolt. I've been in businesses that have been successful, but it has been a lot of that. Push the boulder up and it rolls back. And. Yeah. So I've been on both sides of that. And so this was kind of, so far, been a very nice, like, marrying of my skill set, my curiosity, and market need at a time when I'm actually freeing up and having some time more free than I have in the past.

Yeah.

Being a dad and everything.

So. So month one, what. What was Your AI skill set at. At that point, like, what tools were you using? How proficient were you? Was it just chatgpt? Was it deeper than that?

Yeah, it's so interesting because AI is like, it's a technology, but it's teaching us to be more human again. And so I've said it for a long time that we kind of like we've been lulled into this world unbeknownst to us, that, like, when we interact with technology, like Google. Look at the next time you put a Google search in there. It's not a sentence, it's like a carefully constructed list of subliminal keywords that we've learned. Do a thing and we say, hey. And then it gives us something and we go and point and click and whatever. And AI just is a lot more human, ironically, than the technologies we've been using. So that already matched up with my skill set. So this ability to have nuanced conversations with it worked. I taught myself to code a while back, and so I'm not a computer science major, I'm not a former developer. So when AI came along, it really unlocked that for me. So to answer your question, what skill set did I have at the time? All my normal skill sets plus AI equaled like superpowers.

Yeah.

I could do everything that I've done in the past, just a lot better and faster.

Yeah. So kind of a super broad, like mile wide, few inches deep skill sets.

Yeah.

Plus AI equals superpower.

Yeah.

Do whatever you want.

Yeah. It's almost. There's a burden, there's a. That comes with it. Like this idea of unbridled progress and answers. You can do anything now. You can get anything answered, you can research anything. All of that. For me, my personality was awesome and I learned so much about so much fast. But you get to a point where you're like, yeah. I don't know if you've seen the movie Limitless with Bradley Cooper. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of this feeling like, oh.

My God, where do I go? There's too much to do.

That's right.

So we do nothing oftentimes.

Yep. Yeah. So. So, yeah, my skill set was I learned all the chat GPTs, all that stuff that was out there and went deep in their features, but also used my development coding skill set to create custom solutions and learn how to interact with the APIs of these companies. And what is agentic AI? What does that really mean and how does that work and what's hype and what's real? So month one, all the skills that I normally have, which are broad but tuned up.

Yeah. So we're using tools like Zapier, make like Claude, Code replit, stuff like that. Before you started this business, or did you start kind of tinkering with those? With this business?

Yeah. So I'll answer this in two ways. The original approach I had at the last company, which spurred this approach, was like a very consultative. I'm going into a group asking questions, you know, what do you exist for? What's your major friction points? Just like a consultant would do. And then I would either find or build tools for them and in that process learned all of those things. ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, Zapier, Relevance, AI make N8 and all the things. What I've come to believe after many iterations of this now is that I think about solutioning for AI in three levels. So the first level is it sound like this. You would say, I have this problem or I want to do this thing. I would say, did you know that this feature in ChatGPT can do that? And you say, no, I don't. I'd say, let me show you now. You know, save 30% of your time. You're happy, you get to stock practice on time. All the things. That's a level one solution. A level two solution would be, that's not enough. We need to now cobble together some different systems and move information around. We want AI to be involved somehow, but they're existing tools. Zapier, all the different ones that we just mentioned, that's a level two solution. And a level three solution would be we have a complex task that needs orchestration. We need some combination of deterministic and probabilistic interactions with technology. And we need to build that and deploy it ourselves. And so my tools that I've used, they fall into those kind of levels. That's how I think about it.

Okay. One, two and three.

Yeah.

Describe what you mean by deterministic and probabilistic.

That's good. AI is a probabilistic technology. Ask it the same question and you're going to get different answers each time. Directionally accurate. But it's not a. If this, then that.

Yeah, it's not. One plus one is always going to equal two. You're going to ask it like, what is the best suitcase for my trip to India?

Yeah, right.

And it's going to. Well, you're going to kind of get the same result, but different words, different structures, etc.

So probabilistic in that it's giving you the highest Probable outcome based on the patterns and the math that AI exists, exist, deterministic is more that if this, then that type of thing. And that's what traditionally our code has been, right? And what I think is happening in the industry right now is this promise of agentic AI that's out there is, is not being fulfilled. It is very like alluring. There's going to be awesome things that happen, but the technology is not there yet. And so the most successful implementations of agentic AI that I see out there are some combination of deterministic code. Get this, give me that, do this, move over here. Probabilistic AI. Do this thing. Bring that back. Okay, let's move that around. So that back and forth is what I'm finding the most value right now.

It's kind of like a Zapier integration of three years ago with ChatGPT kind of overseeing it and using some logic to kind of fix things as they break.

The way that I would look at it is like there's a confluence of sort of automation and AI. Like everybody talks about AI and a lot of times they're just talking about automation. And so you want to find where the AI is doing something that automation can't do on its own. And because AI has a context window and can understand nuance and can tease things out, we can just now do so many more things with automation that we couldn't before. Like evaluate this and tell me, is it this, this or this? Okay, now do this thing. Whereas before it's like, does it have these keywords or not?

So yeah, so what does an average customer of yours look like? What type of a business owner are they? Exclusively business owners, industry, business size, etc.

So I'm finding that every single company has this problem. Anytime I say I'm in AI, the response is like, I just got off a conference call with our CEO and they said, we need to do something about AI. You got a lot of leadership acting out of fear or hope, saying, you know, what are we, what are we do with AI? I've heard overheard on conference calls, high level people, we've got to do something with this AI thing. I've been asked to talk to people just so they can say they talk to an AI expert for their earnings call.

Wow.

There's pressure for people to do stuff in this space. And so I'm finding that, you know, companies with tens of thousands employees need this and then startups need it too. We come in, I say we. It's me and a developer and one other person, but we'll come in in a fractional, like transformational. Let's talk about change management. What's the culture at your company? How can we be AI native AI first? How do we change this group of 400 people? And then I also come in with like here's a specific thing that we're trying to do. Can you build that?

Yeah, for us. What about like non start like a small business but not a startup, like a local business or a home service business?

Yeah. So those are really fun ones.

Are you saying that sarcastically?

No, I know I'm saying it like that. You can help somebody out so much.

Yeah. You're opening their eyes like and you're.

Letting them do the work of 10 people now on their own. And so I don't have a lot of commercial relationships in my practice with that sort of level, but I do a lot of that help just because I like helping local businesses. Like have you, you know, my brother owns a gym. What can we do to on AI to help you with your leads or you know, whatever.

And so do you have more customers on the startup side or like the bigger established business side?

I would say right now it's kind of split between like what I'd call a medium sized company, a 400, 500 person company, kind of medium small and then on the larger side kind of in the 6,000 employee range, somewhere in that range. So that's where most of it falls. And then I've got some like smaller agency type stuff where there's 40, 50 people at a company.

Yeah. Mostly hundreds of employees and. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

One of the things that AI introduces is a lot of security issues and so you have to be careful with that. And just the bigger the company gets, the more, you know, things you have to check off before you clients. Yeah, you can go faster with smaller companies, but that's not new to AI.

Okay, what does an average proposal look like? Let's say you're sitting down with the owner of a 400 person company. What are their typical problems and what kind of questions do you typically ask them?

We can come in a lot of different ways. So sometimes if that, you know, somebody at that company says we have this thing we think AI can help with, then we just get right to it. Like okay, tell me about that do discovery, you know, who's involved, who's the subject matter expert, what are the systems, how long does it take now, what does it cost, whatever. So shape that out. Sometimes what I'll do is I'll come in and do you know a survey? Right. Send this out to all your managers, employees, whatever. We get that survey back. What's cool is the way that I built it is when we get those results back, I can actually instantly summarize and give AI insights and charts and like. So within two hours, three hours of that completing, I can give a, you know, very nice, that's cool. 15 page report on the state of your AI readiness. And I also deliver a chatbot experience with that too. So they can go chat and you know, like who hates AI and who's worried about, you know, and then it kind of spans the gamut. Like do you want to do a workshop? Do you want to go find use cases and help you there? You know, do you want someone to come in and just do some education presentations around those level one solutions? And at the top of that sort of pick list is like, I come in as like a fractional executive and implement a framework of AI operations that I've come up with that kind of revolves around three core concepts, which is an AI operator, an AI solutions brief, and then the leveling of the solutions that we talked about. And if we can get everybody speaking the same language and using the same approach, you start to unlock this pent up, what I call pent up innovation that's been on the sidelines for years because nobody could afford to get their ideas out of their head into the wild.

I like that phrase, pent up innovation.

Pent up innovation, you know, and if you can unlock that, you kind of get this micro innovation at scale. You know, you've got a frontline worker who has an idea. In the past, they never would have got it off the ground because they're not going to get development time, resources.

But they have the best ideas because they're the most relevant to what the company's doing.

They're the subject matter expert.

Yeah.

Now that person, I'm finding this out there all the time. They used cloud code to code up an application for them and two other people that's become integral to their process.

The CEO doesn't even know about it, but it works amazingly.

And then our job is to say, that's great, let's get it off localhost and somewhere where we can manage it. But you wanna see that, you want to release that pent up innovation that's been locked away in these corners and silos and AI is allowing us to do that both through the tooling and the features that it offers, but also just because of our ability to spend spin up custom Software for small groups.

Fast pent up innovation would be a good sales tool. It gets people excited about the future potential of their business. You're selling the outcome and not the features well.

And the other thing that you're doing too is you're infusing joy and excitement back into an employee's job. All of a sudden they're empowered to have innovation and be an entrepreneur and so they're excited. I see more people when we show them that we can do something with AI, like light up and have this and then get fired up about, I want to do this, I want to try this, I want to do this. You're empowering what I call it. Creating superhuman AI powered employees inside your company is what we're trying to do.

So this is a 400 person company, hypothetically, that we're talking about. What would you charge just for an audit? Give or take. I know it can vary, but 10.

To $15,000 usually depending on, you know, how deep we want to go one time, fee point, solutions and stuff after that depend on how we want to do it. Usually what ends up working is coming up with sort of just a monthly amount that you want to spend and we'll do as much as we can for that velocity. But what we do too is, is the way we set it up is on the bigger engagements. Right. So if we're coming in to do like a culture transformation, let's get AI first or whatever. One of the platforms that we build or introduce is for the AI operators. Anytime you have a new technology come out, Internet, email, you know, cloud service, there's never just like budget that comes with it, like, let's go do this thing. And so we find the same thing with AI. All those executives and leaders that are saying like, we need to do something about, about it, they're not carving out millions of dollars.

There's no precedent.

Right, right. So when it comes to somebody like me, I got to figure out a way to, to scale this and introduce this with, with no budget. It's an interesting task, but one of the luxuries we have with AI is people are excited about it. In any department or company, about 10%, 5 to 10% of the people are already like heading this direction. I need to know more about how to use AI in this and that. And so introducing this concept called an AI operator, we just say, who wants to be, who wants to work with me?

Point of contact.

Point of contact, exactly. Yeah. Who wants to work with me? We're going to learn about AI in business. All the things that are happening out there. I'm going to train you how to do discovery.

Yeah.

You're going to become the point person inside your organization, your group that is going to help discover these use cases. You're going to take those, you're going to go to this platform that I built. You're going to enter those in this solutions brief. That's a templated way of understanding what's the problem, what are the steps, who's involved, what's the step. We all talked about this before, but when they fill that in and when you have everybody filling those in, all of a sudden leadership gets what they want. They, they get a transparent look into where does innovation lie within their company through that, like aggregate reporting on all of those briefs. And so you can start to calculate potential roi, potential time savings, potential quality improvements. And that's what they want to see before they invest. Yeah. So at the end of it, we can say we've got X amount of level one solutions, X amount of level two, X amount of level three. Here they are, prioritized. Now, how do you want to do it? So back to the question on what I charge. A lot of times it's, let us set that up at a, you know, I'll come in as a fractional rate somewhere in the 20 to $35,000 a month range. Let's get all that set up. And then it becomes a question of do you have the resources to implement or do you want my team to do that? And so on. One of the reasons I think I've had early success is I'm just not telling people about this stuff. I actually build the solutions as well so I can get people running.

Yeah. Because a lot of consultants say they play quarterback. They're like, you want to try this and use this? And they're like, that just adds more friction to their plate. You just create a bunch of problems. Which one is better? Well, this one is a. Research shows that they're just like, dude, just do it for me. Right. I will pay you to remove this friction from my life.

Yeah. 100% what I did. So I don't leave them hanging with a bunch of reports and stuff. Once I find it's not uncommon in the first 30 days for me to already have built 3, 4, 5 solutions that are having tangible, measurable.

Yeah. And they love you.

Yeah.

Do you ever, like, work yourself out of a job?

In a sense, I'm trying to every time. If I've done my job correctly, I've democratized whatever the Hell, I know about. I always tell people I'm only like three, three, four weeks ahead of you in the market because I'm concentrating on this, engaging on that top level. If I can teach those AI operators how to solution for themselves. Now all of a sudden we've democratized all of that knowledge and so hopefully you have that platform implemented in doing yourself.

Now, I know it's early, we're five months in, but how does Churn look so far when you're hired on a fractional basis, are you working yourself out of a job or are you just creating new opportunities for them and they keep you around?

Yeah. So it is early. Churn has not been an issue yet. It's quite the opposite. I think we're finding so many use cases inside these companies that the question is going to be how many can we get through with the resources that we have. I think there is some learning that I'll have to do on my side about what is the best fit. Is it a big company, is it a medium sized company, Is it a bunch of point solutions? I don't really know the answer to that yet, but in a perfect world, I'd build this company to handle all of those situations.

Yeah. And so how did you land on that pricing? Because, I mean, if people are paying it, awesome to me, like I wouldn't know where to start. I think people are much more likely to underprice themselves than overprice themselves because it's out of like an insecurity, like who's gonna pay that? Right.

Yeah.

How did you land on that?

It's way more than I was comfortable putting into a proposal. I did a ton of research like using, you know, ChatGPT and Claude to go do Internet research on this. And a lot of times what they can find is only from the big, you know, four or five consultancies. And there's certainly a premium on this type of service right now. And so I kind of just worked my way up. I would do one at a certain price and the next one I would price a little bit.

They're not saying no at 10 grand. They're not saying no at 15.

That's right. As long as I feel comfortable that I'm delivering the value for that, then I'll go as high as it goes. But at the point that I feel like it's not worth it and you know, is there a bubble around this stuff? Everybody's talking about that now specifically with AI consultants, probably there's a ton of hype out there, but I Know this. If we stopped right now with development of AI, there's 10 years worth of work and implementation that need to be done. There's plenty ahead of us.

I mean, anytime there's a bubble in anything and the bubble pops, that thing doesn't go away. The prices just drop a little bit and then just like real estate, like it just goes up and down. Right. What did you first start charging on month one for like a fractional engagement?

The first couple of gigs I did were not fractional. They were more like come in and be involved. So I charge the retainer. Honestly. The first one that I did was with a very well respected friend, Rachel woods, who's huge in this area of AI operations. And we just kind of got together and she paid me a retainer fee. But it was, it was more about just getting to work together and getting the experience and stuff. And so then I priced several jobs out at like an hourly rate that worked pretty good. So yeah, and I just kind of kept bumping that up. But the first few projects that I did were probably in the $4,000 to.

$5,000 range per month or one time. One time you wanted like case studies, I imagine.

To be honest, it was less about the case studies. I kind of had a bunch of blurbs and soundbites from the work that I've done in the past. I just really wanted to prove to myself that what I wanted to do or thought had commercial value. Did a lot of the hype around AI is that there's a MIT or forget the report that came out, but 90% of gen AI pilots fail inside the enterprise. I had not had that experience in the companies I worked with in the past, but I did experience a lot of like I made something and people didn't use it or, or it didn't quite go the way that I thought. So as I sort of pointed this at the market and said I'm gonna put my kids through their college education on my back if I'm gonna do this. I wanted to really prove out that I could make something that was outside of what I had been doing for a new industry and all that stuff. So kind of stacking those wins early on and getting to the point where I had enough courage to put a number on a proposal that was kind.

Of made you feel sick a little bit.

It did. The market said that it was there.

Yeah.

But I can remember being like, I'm going to put this on there, I'm going to send it. Let's see what happens.

Yeah, I would imagine that actually getting the company to adopt what you're suggesting is a key part of all this, especially to reducing churn. Is having that AI operator a key component to that someone that owns what you're doing?

Basically, yeah, it's a really good question. So if you look at things like marketing operations, sales operations, revenue operations, finops, all the different things, you know, those all have become disciplines that live within the department. They're not sort of like a centralized thing anymore. And I think we'll see the same thing happen with AI as the industry matures. You'll see this AI operator operations piece come. I think it's one of the most impactful things that a company can do right now is identify who those employees are that have a proclivity for these types of things and then empower them. Give them the tools to do the job. And so whether I'm coming in and saying that, you know, this is the. The framework that we want to put in place where you're not working with me, I would say explore the idea of this AI operator. And I'll give Rachel woods again credit. She came up with that term. And I said, hey, I'm using that in my business. Is that okay? And she's like, I will have succeeded when I see a job opening posted for an AI operator at some point.

Well, I would think that when you ask the corporation or 10 people on a Zoom call, like, who the AI operator should be going to be. Nine people that are like. And then one person that's like, that's me.

Yeah.

Is that usually what you see? And that's the guy you want?

Yeah.

Because you want him to be fired up about it.

Well, and sometimes you have to demystify it a little bit. Like, some people think AI equals technical. Like, I need to be technical. It's not true. The people that I'm finding the most impactful in this AI operator role are people who are curious, they're high agency, and they're systems thinkers.

Yeah.

And great communicators because so much of AI is just communicating well. But yeah, the operator person that shoots their hands up, you know, that's the one you want to look at first.

What types of businesses did you first start working with in month one versus today? Has that evolved over time? Did you start with smaller businesses and work your way up or.

Yes, it started with smaller businesses and projects and point solutions. Can we do this thing? Yes, we can do it. And then usually that ends up you do it once and they want more. Right. And so it's okay, can we do another one? Can we do it? It's like, yeah, we can, but we should have a holistic strategy here, like, because all of a sudden we're going to have 35 different solutions. Where are we putting those? Who's governing, like, what? And so it's been a naturally evolving thing. I think that the next stage for me, and I've been building a lot around this, is you've got to prove out that ROI the best you can. Over time, there's some complications with AI and ROI in different departments, but over the course of a year or two years, someone, some company that's made of significant investment in this, you know, needs to have answers. And so I've been building my solutions with that in mind.

How do you show them that your money is well worth it?

Yeah, there's some things, when it comes to AI operations or AI implementation, very easy to do that. You created a custom level three solution that does a task that used to take X amount of hours. Now it takes X amount of hours. So every time you run that, you're catching that and putting it in a dashboard so you can see real time. We've saved 92 hours and 24, 50, $55. Yeah. There's other areas that are a little bit more difficult. So if you look at just that, general education, that level one that I talked about, solutions, if you're training people how to just use ChatGPT and do the bits, it's a little bit harder to come in and say, like, how do we quantify it? If you have certain plans, you can look at usage and so on. But I don't concern myself too much with that. That's just something that needs to happen. That's just business getting.

And they're not expecting you to tie that directly to roi.

Leadership has a lot of different views on this. I mean, some of them are. They still want to see that. And so you have to come up with creative ways to sort of get them that answer. The ones I like the most are like, where we can show very clear roi. Let's make sure we do it. And then we just know we have to move in this direction. I was on a call the other day with someone. They were talking about this, or what were your metrics around email and Internet usage last month? Like, what do you mean? Like, you don't try. You don't have metrics about Internet usage? Like, no, we don't really track that. Like, why? Well, we just know that it's. There's some title Shift technologies that come along that, like, just become a part of the way that we work. There's an edge to AI that. That is. That is that as well.

I imagine, like, during the kind of discovery phase, before you've closed the deal, it's super important to ask how many hours X, Y or Z task takes. Because then, you know, after you've completed the project, you could say, hey, you told me that this task took 92 hours. You know what I'm saying? And you're not directly saying you paid me this much and this. But they're connecting the dots for themselves.

Yeah.

Because in that coding process, you literally need to know how much time they're spending on these tasks. But it also supports you on the back end that you can point to it and say, this is the ROI I delivered for you.

Yeah, that. And one of the things you're doing, if you do discovery correctly and you catalog correctly these potential solutions, you're training people what is not AI too. Just put some AI on it, sprinkle some AI. And there's a lot of cases where you're like, this is not actually. You're wasting your time. Yeah. And so going through that process allowed you to prioritize things, figure out what is not AI, educate people as to how to solution, but then pull out those very important metrics that you need to evaluate truly if you should be doing a solution. And the other thing that allows you to do is that level one, level two, level three solutioning, you always start at level one. What can I get accomplished with that? What can I get accomplished with Level 2? Because a lot of times we find we get 80% of the benefit at a Level 2 solution, it's not worth investing the time to go to level three solution because we've pulled those metrics out.

Yeah. For someone that doesn't have your background and wants to start doing something like this, what do you recommend they do to get their first customer? Because that's the hardest one, right?

Yeah, I've had a lot of conversations about this, actually, in the last year as people kind of turn and say, you know, I would say just go see if you can solve a problem.

For somebody for free, even.

Yeah, I would. That's kind of.

Yeah.

Until you get confident enough that you can do it. And then I would just start rolling up that. That price. But yeah, I would go. I would go look for these use cases inside of companies, and they're everywhere.

Yeah.

People have asked me, what's your process for doing discovery? I don't really know, I just kind of sit down and have a conversation.

Yeah.

And I ask the what question?

Find the pain points.

Yeah. Why do you do that? Where does that happen? When does that happen? You'll hear things like that takes us hours. That's done manually. And so you get good at listening for these, then just, you know, see if you can put something together. So that, that's how I'd, I'd say to get started.

How much of what you're implementing is actually AI and how much of it is just an automation, it doesn't matter. Right. If it solves the problem.

But yeah, there's two ways that I look at it. AI is offering solutions that didn't exist before through features like in chat, gbt, you can do this or in, you know, that's, that's one way that it's solving problems, but the other way is it's just making us so much more efficient at building software or building solutions. So there's sometimes that I'm solving a problem, I'm using AI to quickly, you know, build the solution out and it for a cost and a time period that wouldn't have been available for. But the actual solution I deliver has very little AI and using AI to.

Build it, but the delivery of it is not.

Yes. You know, in the past you couldn't spin up a bespoke application for like I said, a team of three.

Yeah.

In a cost efficient manner. Now I can do that. And that's, I think what makes me different about my offering. It's like both let's do education and strategy and cultural transformation. But also if you need to get your hands dirty, like just let's build. Yeah, let's go and make this thing.

So. Yeah.

So I don't know about like how much I'm finding AI versus automation, but I do look at it. I would say about 6, 70% of the solutions that I'm building actually are using AI in the solution and 30% are just being built because AI is allowing me to build them for people.

Okay. And then back to the first customer question. Where do you think they go from there? Like they get someone to have their problem solved by you, by them. You do that for free. What's the likelihood of that business owner needing an additional problem solved and being willing to pay for that second 100%? You just open the floodgates.

Yeah. I think especially in this industry at this time in history, if you can prove that you can do one meaningful thing like that, you go to a company, you're Going to immediately, even through the survey process that I do in the beginning, that audit, we're pulling out 40 use cases just from that.

Wow.

There's a ton. And some of them are good and some of them are AI and some of them are not AI and whatever. But it's a unique time in history where people are doing this. Companies are doing this inventory of what's possible. I've not had an interaction where there hasn't been follow on work.

Yeah. Because if I start like a web design agency and I have no customers, I'll do a first website for free and then they're good. And then I use that as a case study. Here's my portfolio of one website. I charge $500 and you're going to be much more likely to get that second job. But in this business, it's like I built this AI voice agent for an H VAC business owner and now he needs me to do a chatbot on his website and I'm going to charge 500 for that. Oh, now it needs me to do this. I'm going to charge 3,000 for that. Right. So if you're watching this interview with Brandon thinking I could be an AI consultant, 80 grand a month. That sounds pretty good. Just so happens I have a community of people doing exactly that. It's called Playmakers at play. Playmakers AI.com I'm teaching in there every single week live. I have 21 paid experts teaching in there every week how to find customers, how to fulfill these services for customers. Check out playmakersai.com or at the link in the description.

Yep.

And then you have revenue and you have case studies and you probably have some referrals in there. Are you getting good referrals?

Yes. But there's also other people that don't want to tell other folks.

They don't want you to get too busy.

Taken away.

Right? Yeah.

So I have received more referrals than I've been able to a service at this point. And building this, I don't know what it looks like in the future. Most of the higher end companies that I'm doing work for, they do want to bring me on full time. There's a layer of fear that exists in the enterprise that maybe didn't exist with other technologies. The best companies are bringing in somebody like me to address that and say, hey, we're investing in this transformation and in you, so don't worry about your job. We're going to make you a better employee and do your job better. But they want a face for that. They don't want, you know, some random consultant just coming in and being like, here's the AI, you know, person, they're going to bring in six people and, you know, do the different stuff. So I am learning that it's a personal thing.

Like, yeah, look, I imagine, like, in a lot of situations, you could be the enemy to a lot of people in the organization. Right?

Yeah.

And maybe even more so if they hired you on full time. It's like, oh, this is a guy they hired to replace all of us. Awesome.

Yeah, it's. There's definitely. I've seen that fade a little bit over the last year. Uh, but there is. There's some people that are super excited and so glad that you're there and they want to talk. And there's other people that are a little skeptical.

Yeah.

What I find, though, is the more that I engage and talk about what we're doing, like one of the phrases everybody uses it now is like, AI is probably not going to take your job in the near term, but somebody that knows how to use AI is going to put a lot of pressure on you and AI enable you. So you're the one, you know, that's ready for the future. But I also have seen this trend happen. Even those that are hesitant to talk to me at the end of our time together. A couple sessions together in 180 degree turns.

Yeah.

And now they're asking me, can I get more time? Can we solve this thing? Can we? So if you're doing your job right, you are communicating to them. Like, my job isn't to come in and put people out of business. I'm passionate about helping people do their job better so they can do more.

Yeah. Well, AI is growing the pie for everyone. So if a company wants to grow their proportional share of the market, or pie, so to speak, then it needs its employees to be empowered. Right. And 10 years ago, that, you know, increased market share would look like hiring 500 more employees. Now it might look like hiring 10 more employees that are. But all 510 are now empowered by AI and so they're still taking a proportionate share of the market, but they're not having to hire 500 more people to do so. Right.

Yeah. I found leaders. Exactly. You know, executive leadership tends to have one to two outlooks on this. One is you do absolutely hear some of them being like, how much can we money, can we save, headcount, can we retain? And whatever. The other side of that is saying, like, think about how much more we could do with what we have. So I know both exist out there. I tend to like working with the latter more. Yeah.

Well, I would think that the former. Right. The guy that wants to replace his head count, they eventually graduate to the latter. Right. They graduate to the mindset of, oh, I'm looking at this too simplistically. The pie is going to grow. It's not. It's like good guys and bad guys, optimistic and pessimistic but just like less informed. Become more informed.

Yeah. Because at some point if you reduce your headcount, then you're asking the same thing as the other guy.

Yeah.

How can I get more out of the less headcount?

Yeah.

I've come up with six Personas that I think exist inside the company for AI adoption. Like enthusiastic Emma, traditionalist Tim, curious Chris. I won't go through them.

No, I want to hear them.

Curious Chris, traditionalist Tim, enthusiastic Emma, principled Pat, curious Clara, cautious. It was cautious and curious. I don't have one. And the point in identifying those, it's not just a, know some pedantic exercise that sounds good. Is that each one of those have a different learning curve with AI, your, your traditional, you know, change management skills gap adoption curve. Emma's really excited about it. But I can tell you what's going to happen to Emma. She's going to see something that's very cool that I show her. She's going to go do it herself and it's not going to work the same way.

Yeah.

And she's going to lose steam.

Yeah.

So for her it's about like coming alongside. Each one of those has a different little graph on how you progress them through the adoption phase. There's some, you know, that, that have serious objections to it. My job's not to convince everybody to be an AI, you know, in, but it is to give you the information I have to help you make good decisions. So you run to people like AI uses too much water. It stole from all the artists out there. Those are real conversations. In fact, when I roll out a program, I'll often do a follow up presentation for AI concerns. And I'll just get in a room and say, these are the biggest ones that are out there. Let's talk about. I'll give you information I have.

So how long did it take you from month one to five, where we are today to go from going out and finding customers to I don't need to find any more like they're finding me. I'm good. I don't need to hustle anymore. Does that make sense? Like when did that, when did the tide turn?

I hate that I'm going to answer this way because most of my life has been around grinding to find customers, creative marketing. When I started that rate and review financial advisor company, I was running an iPhone promotion. Like I've done all the things. Yeah, this one didn't happen like that. There was people from the jump that were interested. I had a little bit of a reputation of doing this stuff. And so I think there was one person in this process that I put a sales approach on, like they were interested. I sent them the emails like, hey, do you want to get back together and talk?

You followed up like you're supposed to stuff.

Yep, yep. I built my whole consulting platform using AI, but I built my own CRM, my own calendar, my own presentation deal, invoice, whatever. And I was using this to prospect this guy. Never got him, but I didn't, didn't need to at the end of it. So that was, you know, this one is just, it's just, it's just happened. So maybe a month I would say, until got to the place where there was enough business out there. And I think there's more. I know there's more, but I kind of want to prove out this methodology and stuff I have.

Now you're having to say no to stuff already. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did your monthly revenues look like from month one to five?

I'll put it this way. The first, I think I did about $30,000 worth of small projects in. In about a six week period. And then it quickly grew to annual run rate of around 800,000 through different engagements and stuff.

So roughly 20,000amonth to 60, 70, 80,000amonth over the course of five months. And I know it's lumpy, right? Like, yeah.

Depending on when invoice numbers come in and all that. That's the kind of potential that's out there right now. Yeah.

That's incredible. And small team, right? Your cost or your team and your Internet connection.

Yep.

That's incredible. What is like a good example of a small project, like a small solution that you provide an organization that's very common.

Yeah. I signed so many NDAs as part of this, so I'm thinking to be careful how I. So there was one organization that came in and said, we want to build this thing that's going to help train people. It's going to be for a specific group of people and it's going to. It's very complex subject matter and we want a better experience for training people. And I said, okay, I know nothing about this area, but the way that we work together now is changing. So in this particular instance, I did the initial call and then I said, send me everything I want presentations, documents. I want you, subject matter expert to dictate into a Word document. Everything about this project. I want, like snow me under with information. I take all that and then I start using AI Claude code in this example to really understand what's going on, do Internet research, like figure out what's happening, and then in like 10 days delivered a. It was for them as a proof of concept, but like a fully functional training application around this. So one meeting, you know, one dump of information using AI to get understanding, to build the solution, you know, deliver it days later and their minds are blown. Another, you know, project would like would be, hey, we have this process. The way that it works is we get some information from Salesforce, it comes to this team, this team of three then goes and does a bunch of Internet research. And then they do this and this and this and this. And they put together a CSV file and that CSV file gets back uploaded to Salesforce. How long does that take? Well, it takes, you know, an hour and a half to do each one. Okay, let's build a solution where automatically the information from Salesforce gets sent to an AI agent. The AI agent goes out and does research with a very detailed prompt, brings back what we need, gives it to another agent to structure it into a certain format, send that back to our application, use the deterministic code to pull out what we want and create the CSV file the way we want it. So within a minute to three minutes, instead of an hour and a half, they have that, that piece of information. So that's another point project, that type of stuff.

So I'm thinking like, if I go into like a regional grocery store. Yeah, right. They've got 400 employees and they're saying, you know, we do these slip and fall trainings with our new hire. It's all done on paper. They have to sign it. We've got a training coordinator that manages it. Here's all the documents. A PDF, make us an app for this. Right? So you use Claude code or whatever, upload all the PDFs, build a little interface, and it can all be done digitally on a web app and they can sign it digitally. Is that kind of like an. Could that be a project?

Yeah, maybe. You know, I'd have to dig into it more. That's like Kind of a traditional software build that you would maybe just be able to accelerate because you're using AI to do it faster. I think if to use a regional grocery store, the questions I'd be asking are like, what does your marketing department do? I, I'm a big fan of getting a Miro board or lucid, whatever you use. And then right. With the client being like, okay, this box is X. Tell me what happens next. That goes over here and does this and that goes over here. So kind of my approach is looking more for the workflow first than like the product opportunity, the app opportunity. So I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What does the sales process look like or the discovery call process look like? What kind of tips or tactics do you use to get them closer to a yes?

A lot of times on these initial calls, I am, you know, I'll do an intro, a little rapport building, whatever, and then I'll just, you know, say, take me through your journey, your experience with, with AI. Where are you at? Are you a strong adopter? How do you, are you scared about it? Whatever. And people generally get pretty verbose in that response. I like it. I play around with sometime. My kids showed me this, so I try to get their feelings around AI first before I. I go the next step. But the next step is always that workflow piece. So like, have you thought about anything where you think AI could help? It's this, this, you know, or this. I try to never solution on those calls. I think it's bad. Like, yeah. Midway through, be like, you know what you could do?

Yeah.

So just ask questions, get them talking. What happens if you fix this problem? It's classic sales stuff. Right? Spin, selling, like implication. Like if you could fix that, what's going to happen? If you don't, what's going to happen? Yeah, a lot of that stuff. Classic sort of sales tactic. And then usually the process after that is to go back with several options. Like here are four different ways to engage.

Yeah. I know that I'm not very good at selling and I know that on a call like that I would offer solutions in the moment. Right. Like, well, you know, you could do this. And I do that from a place of I'm going to show you how smart I am. So you'll say yes. Why isn't that a good idea?

Well, first of all, you shut down the process like as soon as you start solutioning, then the discovery is done and you're looking for a lot of stuff you want to find. 3, 4, 5, 6, different use cases.

Yeah.

And as soon as you start solutioning, then you get them. That's number one. Number two is you don't have all the information yet. You might offer something that is not doable. Now you just shot yourself.

You could do yourself more harm than good. Right?

Yeah.

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Yep, exactly. And it does come back to. There's an old chart when I was financial advisor. It's like a, you know, your classic x, Y axis, but it's a U shape and it's effectiveness of selling over time. When you're young in the business and a rookie, you're very effective because you don't know anything.

So what do you do that could be an advantage?

You ask questions.

Yeah.

You're like, tell me about, why is that important to you? And what if we did that? But then as we mature as salespeople, we start to think we know the.

Answers to the questions. Yeah. Curse of knowledge.

Yeah, exactly. You become less effective. And the very best salespeople at the end know all the answers and still only ask questions.

And they're not even listening when they, like, they're, they may even be asking questions just to ask questions, but they answer them like, I know all this. I already know all that.

Yeah. And a lot of times it's about discovery at that stage. It's about getting the prospect to discover the thing. Not so much, you know, you doing the discovery because you can ask a couple of questions. I'm not there yet in the maturities of this particular thing. But in other times I could ask three questions and know where to put you. But yeah, that initial call and look, I have all the background and knowledge about sales. I know all the different, you know, stuff, the takeaway clothes, alternative clothes, like all the, all the things, I hate it all when it comes to this stuff. I'm literally asking the questions and not solutioning. But I'm not actually thinking this is going to kill the sale. I'm just thinking like, I want to help you.

Yeah.

And so I got to get all the information that I, that I can get. And I think that they feel that.

If you could wave a magic Wand, you had $100,000 opportunity in front of you, you could pick the industry that you were going to pitch this opportunity to. Right. Manufacturing, home services, startup, venture funded, whatever. What industry would you pick? Because they would be most likely to close and like close in a shorter amount of time and pay you quicker, etc. What's the best industry?

Let Me maybe answer the question in a different way. I would want the industry that's going to, that I'm going to be able to provide the most value to versus like close. Because I think I could close a lot of them that that wouldn't work. And I'll give you an example. If you're a company that has like a heavy pii. Personal identifiable, identifiable information burden part of your.

What does that mean?

You move around a lot of personal.

Information, Social Security numbers, data integrity data.

Yeah, not so much data integrity but like just we're a data company and we handle all this data which includes emails and medical records and all that kind of stuff.

Like a fintech company or healthcare.

Fintech would be. Healthcare would be that deal with sensitive information. Those are harder to work with because you're using AI and then you got to get things clear and whatever. So the first thing would be like the perfect industry slash company would be one that doesn't deal heavily in PII as part of their core product offering. Those that are forward looking, they are interested in taking chances and AI like.

Curious, is there an industry better than than others? Like an industry that tends to be more forward thinking or I think you.

Have all your, you know, traditional metrics or not metrics but like filters you would apply to technology companies like Healthcare. Fintech are going to be harder to work with a little bit because of the data sensitivity that they have. But every single company out there has this need for how do we take AI and operationalize it into the business. And so for me it's not really about industry, it's about how ready that company is or that group is to take on these types of projects and this type of thinking.

I know we talked about headcount. What revenue size do you think is a good target for getting to a yes?

Again I think the need is so across the board it's hard to. In my experience so far I have not found a correlation between, you know, if you're trying to make a business out of this, it's gonna be easier to go with larger companies than it is like a bunch of local businesses. Cause they just don't have the, they can't write the check.

There is a trade off though, right? It's harder to close a bigger business but much more money.

Yeah, I don't know.

Okay.

Yeah.

I love all your answers by the way. Cause I interview entrepreneurs and it's like, like what's the best? But here it's just like this is really hot right now. Okay. Like that's the answer, like, this is a really hot industry. I've never seen anything like it. Everyone says yes. As long as I get in front of them, I solve their problem. I, I do what I promise I will do. I charge a market rate which is very high right now because it's very hot right now. I get a yes and it's really good money.

Yeah, I mean, and I've been, that's why I said when I answered the question before, it's like, I don't like that I'm going to answer it this way because I've been in the trenches. I've called. You know, I built my first financial advising practice by cold calling every day all the side businesses and things that I've always started to create. It was a grind and a hustle and you know, feeding a kid in one arm and trying to learn how to code in the other arm. But this one is, is coming together of a lot of different things at once. To your question that you just said about it's harder to close bigger than I think that's an, you know, an old well debated sales myth. In general, it takes just as much work and in my experience sometimes less work to close the big ones than it does the smaller ones. Especially, especially at certain price points. That's absolutely true. But then when you get into working inside of the company, that's a different thing.

More bureaucracy, more politics. Touch points.

Yeah, different things. And yeah, that's, that's harder in a bigger company than a smaller company.

How much of what you do is tied to a company's revenue or cost savings? In my experience, it's easier to sell a service where you can say, look, I saved you this many man hours or I saved you this much money or I made you this much money. Is a lot of what you do tied to that or is it not?

Yeah, I kind of go back to the, the, the way I put it before, it's like we want to tie as much to that as we can. Like that's the win for me is to say we cut cost on this, our profit margin went up here or we were able to do much more because we cut down the time. The more we can tie it back to actual revenue. It is the goal. But then on the other side of things, it's like we educated the broad workforce on how to use chat GPT better and do personal workflows better. That's not tied to revenue, but it is tied to employee joy. Like, you know, your work force and culture and all that so the more someone, I think doing what I do can tie it to revenue, the more successful they're going to be. Because the biggest jobs that you're going to get are going to want to know that what executive leadership is desperate for inside of these companies when it comes to AI is proof that it's not hype and that it's working. They're under this mandate, Go use AI, go figure out. Go do this. Go.

Yeah.

And so they need to be able to bring back this is what we did. It saved this amount of time, this many hours.

So. Yeah. Has it been hard to say no to some of these job offers you've gotten?

Yes.

What have some of the offers been? If you would be willing to share?

Like, they've been more money than I've ever made in any of my other gigs. And I'm not opposed to it. It's just that when you start to make a commitment to one company and then another one comes along and says, we want you full time, but you need to give up that commitment, that's just not the ethical thing to do. Yeah, I'm open to whatever in the future, but I. One thing I won't compromise is if I said I'm going to take you from point A to point B, then I'm going to get.

Yeah, I got to finish what I said. I got to finish what I said. What has this business done to your. Your personal income?

I gave you some of the numbers before, but it's. It's tripled what I have historically been making at this point.

That's incredible. And it's fun. You like it?

Yeah. Here's the thing that I like the most. The ability to think about something, to be with the family or see a Netflix documentary or watch something on YouTube and have an idea and then put it into action the next day. Like, that's really cool. The bigger companies that I've, you know, startup companies are good about that too. It's like the larger the organization gets, the harder it becomes to. To. To like, have that short feedback loop on what you want to do. And I really crave that. On a bigger existential level, you get to a certain point in your life and you realize you don't want that much more materialistically, like, I don't want to move from where I live here. I don't want. Yeah, you know, I'm happy. And so how do you find motivation to, like, do the next thing? And for me in my 40s, it was just like, what's the next version of me going to look like. And I mentioned the beginning, like wandering around in the desert for a while feeling like, what's going to happen? Then this AI thing happened and just worked. And it fit with my skill set and personality. And to wake up now and be like this drives me. It's exciting. I can help people. Four years ago, three years ago, I made a statement to my brother that, you know, I can't remember the last time I was excited to get out of bed in the morning.

Yeah.

And it, like when I said it, it came across way more depressing than I thought when I said it. And that's not the case anymore.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

How important do you think credibility is to all this? Like, if someone were starting what you're doing, how much do you have to lean on your credibility versus how much is. This is just. There's so much demand for it. You just got to know what you're doing or learn what you're doing as you're building it. Because I imagine you've learned a lot of these skills on the job.

100%. Yeah. All of them. There's a lot of hype around AI if you're on X, blah, blah, blah. Just dropped last night. Here's 15 things. The way it's changing, it's blowing my mind. You know, this guy, automated, fired everybody in his company because I just cloned.

Shopify with one prompt.

That's right. There's a lot.

You didn't.

No. You didn't.

Not at all.

No. Just hype and marketing around this agentic piece that I think it's really important if you're going to be a consultant in this space, that your credibility and authenticity and honesty is upfront and on display.

Yeah.

And so a lot of times I'm telling people what you heard is not. That's not true. We're not. We're not going to be able to do that. That's not going to happen. So I think your credibility, your authenticity, your character, all of that is important no matter what kind of business you run. But I think specifically with AI consulting, there's already an error of like, is this bull crap?

Do people need to know to code how to do this?

Here's the way that specifically so you could be an. A consultant that doesn't have anything to do with like coding or solution creating. That's not me. I think that's part of the value that I bring to the table. I feel strongly about this because I taught myself to code and I would never consider My, I'm like a junior to mid level developer that I've taught myself with AI. I'm great. I'll put it this way. My son started lawn mowing business this summer and I helped him with that. And I said, hey, build your website. Gave him cloud code and he built the website and it came out pretty good. I was like, that's awesome. Then he was like, can I just build whatever I want with this? I was like 100%. So he built like a workout tracking thing and he built another thing and he built another thing and every time he would get to a point where it would break.

Eventually that happens. Yeah.

Like, and he didn't know how to fix it.

Yeah.

And whatever. It's because he didn't understand what he was doing. Yeah, he was just telling it what to do and he doesn't know models and databases and connections. I would say that you've got to know how the, how to fly the plane in order to, you know, sort of put it on auto. Auto. Yeah. So that's where I think it's worked for me because I understand enough about how everything works to, to build in a way that is sustainable.

And if you were to be able to measure all of your AI knowledge, all of these tools that you're building today versus five months ago when you started, what percentage of it like came from the last five months versus before those five months?

That's a really good question. I would say maybe 50. 50. The three years prior was about experimentation and learning that I can't just make a cool tool and give it to somebody. There's like change management and training and all this stuff that needs to happen. So the process, the framework, all of that was maybe 50% of it in, you know, the last five months or whatever it's been. I think I've just got a ton of knowledge outside of the bubble that I was operating in and how this applies for the rest of the world. And just so much has changed. I mean cloud code, codex and those types of really powerful agentic coding tools are just coming on the scene.

Yeah.

Really in that time. So.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess that answered 50.

50. Yeah. If you were to take all the AI tools you use on a daily basis to build automations, to build apps, where would you rank them as far as how much you use them?

So clock code's my number one when it comes to custom development. My stack on that side for anybody that's interested is like next JS, MongoDB tailwind CSS deployed to Heroku but that depends on the company and client, what they want to do there in the middle layer of that, those level two solutions, that would be like level three solutions. Those level two solutions, you know, zapier relevance AI is one that I've used quite a bit recently. I'm looking forward to using this agent kit now from OpenAI that they just launched. N8N is, is one I don't really use make.com and so that's kind of that middle layer. And then when it comes to that, those level one solutions, I, I just think ChatGPT has done a better job productizing this magic than any of the others. Like Anthropic is a close second and they're doing some really cool stuff. But when I recommend kind of an AI operating system for a company, it's historically been ChatGPT at this point.

Yeah. Is there any type of like mindset shift you've had to have with this business compared to other businesses you started in the past?

Well, I think when it comes to solutioning with AI specifically, we've got to have like a retrain of our brain a little bit. And here's what I mean. So over the last 15 to 20 years, whatever, somewhere in there, we've kind of found ourselves in this vendor economy, this SaaS economy, this vendor mindset, and it's, it's crept into the way that we actually solution for problems. So a lot of times you'll find people inside of companies instinctively, you know, reflexively when they have a workflow or some, some area that they're trying to improve. It's like, okay, what's the problem? What products are available out there that we can go buy? That'll solve that problem. Then can I get budget? Can I get it through procurement? Can I get it in, train people on how to use it? You see it out there, there's like matrix of all these, you know, product grids. And this was good for this and this is good for that. So we're squarely in this vendor think. And what I think AI is doing is allowing us to get, get outside of that. You know, there's going to be pressure on the SaaS industry because people can create these tools by themselves. But when someone goes to solution for a problem, I like to try to do some other exercise, like an intern exercise, like, how would you solve this problem if you had five interns that were the smartest interns on the planet, but you're going to tell them something, they're going to run away and do.

It and come back.

That's what gets you thinking about people versus products. You know, the blue sky. You said it a minute ago with, if you could wave a magic wand and do one thing, same thing, blue sky, think. How would you solve this if you had no constraints with budget people, Time start gets you thinking in a different way. So just challenging yourself to not look for products first. But like, what are some different ways to think about this? Because that's how you can really feel what AI can do and come into the.

Well, it seems like a great sales tool. Right. Getting them to ask questions differently helps you to understand the problem better, helps you to sell it better, helps you to close it better.

Yeah. And I think it's refreshing when people, when they hear that, and I've heard it at companies I work for, they're like, I. I don't know why I wasn't thinking like that in the past. Just stopped thinking that way.

Yeah.

And so it's cool to see that.

Yeah.

That happen again. So. Yeah.

Well, I'm out of questions. I think this was incredible. If someone watching or listening wants to find you or your business, where can they do so?

Yeah. Just Godosi consulting.com is the website.

We'll link to it. Yeah.

How do you spot G A D O C I Consulting?

Thank you, Brandon.

Thanks for the time. Appreciate.