https://www.listennotes.com/e/f624e21722b74150b27b1cad86bf3fee

It's just not that complicated. Don't sit there and make your pitch deck. Don't sit there and build the perfect website. All of that is irrelevant.

All that research is just advanced forms of procrastination.

You know what I should do instead of jump? I should watch a YouTube video on how to jump. It's like, dude, just jump.

Impatience with action. Patience with results. Go launch the thing today. Be patient with figuring it all out.

Get on sales calls with nothing to sell. Just ask them what they're struggling with. They just tell you the problem. It's first party customer research. A lot of people don't do the first party part.

I think people want to know how your sugar water experiment's going.

Dude, it's so interesting.

Welcome, Welcome. I had my buddy Sam on again here on the Kerner office, and, man, it was a banger. My head is still spinning. We talked about pricing strategies, how to charge the most amount of money that your local market will bear for whatever it is you're selling, how to kind of reverse engineer into that final price on a sales call, where your customer builds the price for you. We talked about Facebook ads. Of course. We always talk about that. And then at the end, we talked about a business idea that I really, really, really think is good and could be applied to so many different concepts. Please share with a friend and enjoy. Tell me what's not that complicated.

It's just not that complicated. Like sales or specifically when people are trying to launch, like, any business, really. Right. Like, I think a lot of people try to, like, have this perfect pitch, perfect offer, perfect everything before they start. The only thing that I tell people to do when they're trying to, like, start any business is just get on sales calls.

Yeah.

With nothing to sell, you can align yourself to kind of a specific thing. There's this dude in, in the grow faster community that got on. He was like, yeah, I want to start a Google Maps optimization business. He was like, I want to help people manage reviews, which is a great idea, phenomenal idea. And I was like, cool, Go get on sales calls. That's literally it. Don't sit there and make your pitch deck. Don't sit there and, like, build the perfect website. All of that is irrelevant. Run some ads that say, business owners, are you struggling with Google Maps? Schedule a call. That's it. Like, super broad. Not like, we're gonna achieve this result. We're gonna do this service. We're gonna. No, no, no. It's like, are you interested in improving this kind of broad stroke area of your marketing. Get on the phone and then just ask them what they're struggling with because they'll just tell you the problem.

Yeah. You could even go a step further and say like, go to ChatGPT beforehand and say, I want to ask business owners what they're struggling with, but I'm afraid that they won't know how to answer because I think a lot of times people aren't creative and they just, they are struggling with things but they can't remember in the moment. So it's like, give me, give me some icebreakers or give me some like probing questions that will help extract out of a business owner what they're struggling with. Because if you just ask them broadly, like, what are you struggling with? Oh, my employee's showing up to work on time. Okay. That's not relevant to what I'm selling. But if you were to say, like, what are you struggling with with regards to your reviews system on Google Maps? Well, it's like I don't think to respond to reviews. I know it's important, but I don't think to. And I know. Yeah, it's like, okay, I'm going to note it.

Yeah, yeah, good to know.

Yeah. Or like one star reviews kill my business. And like if they were to just go away, somehow I could make $4,000 more per month because what I sell is high ticket and one service kill us. Noted. Okay. Reputation management, maybe you know.

Right.

And these conversations will like, we think, we go into these conversations thinking, all right, now I'm going to know how to sell better. But really what it becomes is now I know what to sell.

Yes. That's the thing.

I was going to sell GMB optimization services. Now I'm going to sell reputation management because 8 out of 10 people talked about their Google reputation, you know.

Yep. And that's the flip that would happen. So he, he was thinking he was going to do review management. He set up a super simple sales funnel. He ran some Facebook ads at like $30 a day. Right. Like he was booking calls for 30ish dollars. Right. He's never taken a sales call in his life. Like this man is, he's, he's awesome because he's actually doing it. But like has no experience, gets on these calls. I'm coaching him through like what questions to ask and all that stuff. And he goes, oh, these people don't really care about the review management side. They care more about where they rank. That's all they're talking about is how do I rank higher? How do I get more people in the door. How do I do whatever. So then he changed his ads to speak to that of like, we'll help you rank on Google Maps better. And his landing page schedule call for your ranking audit or whatever. And started booking calls for $18 and then closed his first deal and has two more that are supposed to close this week. This man started from zero, has never touched a Google Maps optimization in his.

Life, figuring it's not like a lifetime. Local business owner.

No, no.

Kid behind the MacBook.

Yeah, I mean, he was. He spent his career in customer service in England and was like, I just think that this is interesting. Like, it's cool. And he's killing it. Like, three active clients. Like, after a month of going, like.

From literally zero, what are his unit economics?

He's white labeling software. I don't know what he's charging. I told him, like, don't set pricing. Just like, talk to people and see what they can afford as long as, like, your math makes sense. And I told him he's going to have to spend the time on these people. Right? Like, it's not like he's going to hire anybody to come and do this. Like, he's just going to. He's trying to build, like, side income. Like, if you can go make a couple extra thousand dollars a month, like, he's a happy camper. I don't think the software is that expensive. Like, yeah, may maybe 100 bucks a client. And I told him he should be able to sell it between like 4 and 600 pretty easily. But he's trying to do. He was like, I need to close my first ones one to like, get proof that this is worth doing and to. To get some reviews or testimonials from people so that it makes it easier to charge higher prices later.

That's the beauty of Facebook ads is the first person we find is someone unrelated to us, someone that doesn't care about us, which is the most valuable customer. Right?

Right.

There is a lot of value to go into your cousin, your uncle, the guy at church, to get your first customer 100% because it's low friction. And like learning Facebook ads, even just bare bones, there's some friction there. Like if you have to learn Facebook ads before you find your first stranger customer, we'll call them. Then you might not ever launch. Right. But when you start with a first customer that's a stranger to you, it's like a clean slate and it's a perfect case study.

Indie hacking is still like a thing, but, like, it was really blowing up. A few years ago, I was watching all these guys that were like, they'd build something and launch it on Twitter, right? And they'd be like, oh my gosh, I got to 1400 in MRR right. Like off of my launch and like all this stuff, put it on product hunt, whatever, and then it would stop. They would launch and that was their only growth marketing strategy. And what I realized was it was a bunch of indie hackers. It was like all these guys signed up for each other's platforms when they really didn't need it. And so they would just end up churning. And then the ones that actually went and saw any, I'll say at scale success. Figured out Facebook ads, cold email. Like every business that's going to reach a meaningful size comes from getting people to pay you that do not know you. You're always going to end up selling to strangers. If you're trying to grow something big, if you're trying to do a side income, like you want to run a car wash on the weekends, like, yeah, you can probably make your 3000 bucks a month off friends and family.

Yeah.

And referral. Right. Like, but to go build something big, you're gonna run ads anyways, so you might as well just start there. Or you get the false. I call it a false positive. It's like you getting five of your friends to sign up is not the same as five strangers buying your thing because like those people are, it's like warm versus cold audiences. It's like the warm people are just more likely to buy because they know you. Cold people need you to prove to them that the value that you're providing is worth the dollars that they're paying very directly. There's no like, oh, he's a nice guy, I'll support his journey. Like, no, no, no, no, no. That doesn't help anybody.

No. And then if your product sucks, they're not going to tell you either.

No, like, that's, dude, this is my favorite T shirt. It ends up at Goodwill two weeks later. It's like, you know, like, yeah, doesn't matter.

There's a lot of frameworks going on here. The offer just being, I will help you rank more. It's just perfect because that's something that every business owner can comprehend. I will help you rank higher. Does this kid have like a set offer or is that kind of it? Does he have like a guarantee, a no brainer offer? Or is he just feeling it out?

I told him not to. I said, get on the phone. With as many people that fit your target demo and like loose benefit. Right. Because they'll tell you if you ask the right questions, they'll just tell you what they're struggling with, what they're looking for actively from a help perspective. And most the time they'll tell you what they'll pay for it. You can a B test pricing live on the phone as long as you know what your floor is, especially early. Right. Like early on, you're just trying to like, get cash in the door.

Yeah.

And so even if it costs him a hundred dollars to like do the the software, like, cool, then you know what your floor is. You can go in and be like, yeah, well, you know we charge $800 a month for this service. Right? And the guy goes, dude, I can't really afford that. My answer to that is, okay, like, you want this thing, you want the benefit. Let's just shoot straight human to human. What can you afford for this? If I can, if I can deliver A, B, C and D, what is that worth to you? Right? And homie goes, I can pay 300 bucks a month. Me on that sales call, I'd be like, cool, because I like you. I'll do 300amonth for your first three months. Again, you're like collecting data. You're like, okay, this Guy will pay 300. He runs a business in a less populated area that doesn't have as many reviews. Right. Versus the guy. I talked to another guy later this week that has like twice the number of employees, is in a really nice area and he can pay 800. You just start to like, play it out. Versus like, I sell this for a thousand bucks a month. Especially if you're early. You have no clue.

Yeah.

Like, that's just your brain coming up with something that like your brain wants to hear versus, like turning to the customer. It's funny, like, I think about like AP economics in high school, wtp. Willingness to pay was like a thing that we talked about for like a week. It's like you're just trying to figure that out. Like, what is the willingness to pay? Like, how much are they willing to price the market for this thing? Right? Like, where in my brain, the easiest way to get the most real gauge of that is talking to the customer. Everyone else is like looking at their competitors and like googling it of like. And that's all dope, like, cool. What is their willingness to pay you? Like, how do you get the first party data of Conversations versus ChatGPT saying the average Google Maps optimization business charges $400 a month. And it's like, I don't do.

It's not going to be that accurate.

Yeah, it's one of those where it's like, first party data. Run your own ads. Figure out what your cost per click is. Do your sales calls, figure out the customer's willingness to pay and what they're actually interested in. And like, if you just do that for 30 days, I, like, can guarantee that you'll step into the next 30 days with so much clearer thinking around what you're trying to sell.

Yeah. All that research is just advanced forms of procrastination, right?

Oh, 100%.

It's kind of like you're on. You're walking the ladder up the high dive and you're scared. And on the way up, you stop a tire. Shoot. If you were runs up, you're gonna check your Instagram real quick. Go up a few more times, you're gonna look around, hey, where's the concession stand? And it's just like, dude, just get up there and jump.

Then you get on the end and you're like, you know what I should do instead of jump? I should watch a YouTube video on how to jump.

Should I do a cannonball? Like, that would be crazy, right?

Should I, Right?

Oh, should I, like, do a. It's like, dude, just jump. Just jump.

Just do it.

The perfect analogy for this was my mission. I served a mission in Hungary and I went to the MTC, the Missionary Training center, which is like 10 minutes away from where I am right now for 12 weeks. That's. Which is such a long time. They don't even send people there that long anymore. It's like torture, right?

Yeah.

And all day. Flashcards, Flashcards, conjugations, flashcards, studying flashcards. Flashcards, vocabulary. And by the end of the 12 weeks, you are like, I am a genius. I. I am fluent in Hungarian. My accent is perfect. How did I learn this in 12 weeks? And then you get on a plane to Budapest, you hop off and you get out and you're like, what language did I just learn? This is not Hungarian. I hear it. I don't hear any words. And then you start talking to people and you're like, it's like, Michael Scott, I understand nothing. Right? You understand it's. But then you start talking, you pick up a little bit. And like, you, over the next 12 weeks, you learn 10 times more than what you learned in the previous 12 weeks. Because you're in the deep end, right? And the church is catching on to this. And so people are staying in the MTC for shorter and shorter and shorter amount of times. Because that's just kind of like a formality. Like, does it help to know your conjugations, like, or what's plural? What's singular? Yeah. When to masculine, when to feminine. Yeah. It's helpful to have somewhat of a foundation, but you just gotta jump.

Yeah, you just gotta go.

With regards to pricing, one trick that I found is to, like, catch the potential customer in their words. And so instead of, like, you go into the conversation saying, I'm charge 800 bucks a month, instead you're going to say, all right, let's talk about your inbound leads right now. How many calls are you getting a day from Google? And they're not really going to know. And you just kind of coach them. Right. Four or five, let's say five calls. Cool. How much is your average job worth? Thousand bucks. Cool. How many of those calls are you closing, would you say? I don't know, maybe one. Okay, so 20% of your calls you're closing. Yep. Okay. How profitable are your jobs? If you make $1,000 top line, what's the net profit? $300. Cool. $300 net profit. You close 20% of them. What's 20% of $300? $60. So are you telling me that every call you get organically from Google is worth $60? Is that accurate? Yeah, I guess since you say it that way, yeah. $60 net profit in my pocket, every call. Cool. You're getting four a day. That's 120amonth. What if I could increase that to 500? 500 calls a month. What would that be worth to you? Oh, I don't know what it. No, I know. What would it be worth to you?

Yeah, we just random math. We know exactly what that matters. Yeah.

Okay, so it's like 60 bucks times 500, times $30,000. Well, I've got pretty good news for you because this is only $800 a month. Like, this is only. Well, what if it doesn't perform? Then I give you your money back. You have nothing to lose. Right. And this is a bro moseyism. I can't claim this, but, like, the offer should make them feel stupid for saying no. Why would you say no to paying 800 to get 3,000 or 30,000 or whatever it is? Right. But if you just go into it and you're like, you get to that awkward moment that every salesman hates and, like, how much is it? Oh, I don't know. And you Hem and ha. Like by the time you say the price it should be stupidly obvious that.

They should say for us, yeah, 100%. I mean it's like, it's so I've always early on the math that I always run was like the 10x value creation on pricing of like if I'm going to make you $2,000, I can super comfortably charge you 200 because you'll 10x. And the nice part is it, it bakes in even underperformance. Right. Where it's like even if I 5x your 200, you're still happy. But it's like easier math for them to think about of like oh dude, if you land me one more job a month for this 500 bucks I'll make five grand. And it's like in their brain it's like oh yeah, that's a no brainer.

Here's a trap that we fall into though. Let's say it is 10x. Like your product or service provably provides a 10x return on dollars spent. Then the temptation is to say man, that's pretty juicy. There's a lot of meat on that side of the table. I think if I raise my prices and make it 7x, that's still really good. And they're right. But if look at the companies like just look at the Fortune 500. I guarantee you that the ones that are worth the most amount of money and or the ones that make the most amount of net profit sell products or services that have a 20 or 200x return on investment by this MacBook right here.

I think the Apple the same way.

Dude, I bought it four and a half, five years, I can't remember. It was like five years ago. The MacBook Pro, top of the line, 16 inch and it was $3,300. And for a cheapo like me, that's a lot of money. And I've spent eight hours a day on it every day for four years. What is the return on that? Like that's why Apple's a 2 1/2 trillion dollar company.

Yeah. And why I have the watch and the phone and the studio display and six laptops and a desk. I'm like dude, this thing is printing cash for me. I want to spend more on Apple.

Yes. So it's like don't be satisfied with the 10. Like whatever. I don't know what your goals are. If you hit your income goal, then do whatever the freak you want. Right?

Right.

But if you really want to level up then try to have like A hundred x ROI on your product or service to your customer because then they're going to shout you from the rooftops, they're going to tell all their friends, they're going to come back, they're never going to churn. It's a no brainer. This isn't my quote either, but impatience with action, patience with results. Go launch the thing today. But be patient with your pricing. Be patient with figuring it all out.

Yeah, I think a lot of people get caught up in the, the speed. I catch myself in that a lot right now. Right. Like I'm moving very, very quickly and a lot of the stuff that I'm working on has longer term payback periods. And that is where the mo like you'll just make more if you can extend that timeline. And you see these people that do like, they're like, I call them idea hoppers. Right? Where it's like, I had this idea on a Monday, I did three things to try to see, whatever. Oh, but I had a better idea on Thursday. Let me jump to the next thing. Try super hard at that for three days. Oh, but I'm not making any money. Right. It's like, oh, digital product, let's do that. Oh, let's launch a service business. Oh, wait, what if we do E Com? Oh, well, what if we did lawn care? Like it's like, yo, yo, yo, like pick something, commit to it for 60 days and just actually do the things that drive results and give it the time to be able to actually give you what you need out of it. And then you get a real. Working on something for three days doesn't give you anything. You got to let it run.

I think the tricky part with idea hopping, which is like, that's my whole brand. Right, right. Is knowing when you've done enough before you try another one. And that took me years to figure.

Out a hundred percent. It's the reason I talk about paid ads to everybody all the time as they're trying to figure stuff out. It's like I would rather spend $500 over the course of the first week to get real data on can I sell this? Are people interested in this? Like first party data on it? Like not looking at exploding topics and being like, oh, more people are interested in X thing. I'm gonna go chase that. It's like cool. Use that as the seed. Now go run some ads and get on the phone. Get on the phone with people. Even if you're trying to launch an ecom brand, if you're trying to launch a Software product. If you're what, no matter what the vehicle is that you're trying to go and push, run a funnel on Facebook that says attention target customer. Stop struggling with pain point. Talk to an expert today. Simple one page funnel, email, opt in calendly link. Get on the phone with them even if you're not going to sell them anything. Just like talk to strangers who are interested in that value prop and you'll like know very quickly what's good. It's like it's first party customer research and I think a lot of people don't do the first party part. They rely like we were saying on ChatGPT to tell them about a market or Google search trends to see if people are interested. Like, cool. All of that is good. To give you the beginning concept of like, this might be something. Next step is get on the phone with 20 people in that market that want that thing and ask, do you want coaching? Do you want a book? Do you want software? Do you need a service? The only reason you're on the phone with me right now is because you're struggling with X. Yeah. What can I do to support that? Like, oh, you want coaching? Sick. I charge a hundred bucks an hour. Buy four hours. We'll do four weeks.

Cool.

Like, then you made your first dollar off proving the fact that people will pay for a solution to a specific problem. Game over.

And what you just then you start to build it confidence more than anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's for me it's all first party. Like do it yourself. Like first party data. First party data. Like, can I get someone to buy or express interest in this? And is it painful enough that they will talk to a stranger about it?

Speaking of idea hopping, the people want to know how your sugar water experiment's going.

Dude, dude. It's so interesting.

And for those just now catching up, Sam came on my podcast on May 28 and talked all about how he started this hummingbird nectar business. In a few hours, started pushing Facebook ads to it and started making thousands of dollars profitably. And literally all it is is sugar in a bag. That's the backstory.

Did get a repeat order. I turned off ads when I ran into those. So those bags take forever to get. And I was moving a good amount of inventory. And so after our convo about the shipping issues, I was like, okay, I'm gonna move down to 15 ounce bags.

Yeah, cheaper, right?

If they order one, my cost will go from eight to four. I can make that work. And so I, I order, I Ordered the bags, dude, they are really small. I think I did my math wrong on the size of the bag that I needed. And so now I just got a shipment of eight ounce bags, dude. Little, little guys. I still have a surplus of the big ones. I maybe have, you know, 20 or 30 units of the big boys, which people with no email, no Facebook ads running are coming back for repeat orders. And so they bought some from me a month ago. They're coming back. Lady yesterday bought a six pack of these things, dude, spent a hundred bucks with me. It's like that's where I make my money is on that second order because those six bags cost me seven bucks and she spent 100. So it's like I'm a happy, I'm a happy camper over here.

Are these like 50 to 80 year old women in middle America? Is that your customer?

Yeah, women and men, but yeah, generally skewed in 50, 50 plus women and serial killers. Yeah, most of the time. And most of them in Midwest, Southeast, a lot of Georgia, Tennessee, like that, that area, some all over. But like that's kind of the hot zone. And so I got these little bags and so I'm going to change my top of funnel offer to sample pack. And so I'm going to send you two of the little bags as the sample pack. And each of those little bags probably lasts, I don't know, a week or two for somebody. And so two bags is going to be a one month supply and then they can bump up. And so I'm going to frame it more as like monthly supply than I am like a bat, like a pouch because like these things are tiny.

It's a happy accident though.

Oh, I'm chilling. I have a thousand of these little things. I was like, all right, we're gonna cruise on that and I can get those. They hold 8 ounces. I'm gonna do it at like 7 on both so that then it's still sub a pound. I can drop my shipping and I can ship them in not a poly bag, but one of those padded envelopes. And so it just gets way easier for me to do that. And then I think I can, I think I can honestly charge more because I charge 18 for the big bag, which is what I'm still going to push on retention. And so I'll sell a bunch of the little bags top of funnel, repeat orders will come through and buy the big bags and then we'll take. I'm just going to try to move through as much of the little bag inventory. As possible where my cogs are way less. Like each of those things is only 55 cents. I think I could sell a starter kit for like 22 and just see like, I'm gonna test it, run discounts if it's two for 18.

Cool.

Like, we'll figure that out. But the other piece is there's this guy on Amazon that sells the hummingbird nectar extender. Extender. This little, it's this little vial. It's literally just water and micronutrient copper sulfate, which you can buy for like 18 bucks a pound. But he's sending out 1 ounce bottles that are 90 water and he sells them for 16 on Amazon and is moving like a thousand units a month right now. And you put a drop of it in, it just like makes the hummingbirds healthier. It's an antibacterial so your hummingbird nectar doesn't like go bad. Oh my gosh.

And so as if the hummingbirds care, dude, the hummingbird rolls up on it. It's like, I don't know, they're like expired.

Yeah, yeah, dude, that thing's been out here for six days. Replaced. That's a one star review.

The hummingbird just looks up through the window at the owners. Like, really?

Yeah, like, are you kidding, dude, we're never coming back. I'm gonna make that, Ned. So his cogs on that is sub a dollar and he's selling it for 16. And so for me to bump AOV, I was like, oh, well, if I do two seven ounce pouches plus one one ounce, it's a tincture bottle. You can buy them on Amazon for like 30 cents each. That kit is one pound. And then you get, you get a month of the hummingbird food plus the extender. And I think I can push because he's selling that for 16. I think I could sell that kit for like 28. And so I think that's going to be my play. I haven't figured out supply chain on a liquid yet. I don't know what that's really going to look like. I'm going to be out there in the garage mixing up micronutrients, copper sulfate or whatever.

RV in the middle of the desert.

Just like, dude, trust. I had my garage open last night. I was scooping sugar and I was like, dude, my neighbor is looking in as they're walking their dog. Or like, what is this dude pouring these bags of white stuff in the bucket?

Southern California.

Yeah. Oh, geez, dude. But yeah, I think it's going to be good.

Please do this. Please go to VO3 and generate a 5 second clip before and after. One of them is. Is like they're both identical hummingbird feeders sitting outside the same window. One of them is like a hummingbird rolls up and then he bounces, and then a hummingbird rolls up and then he bounces. And then on the after, it's a hummingbird rolls up and then a second and then a third and then a tenth and they're all. There's just like this flurry of. It's like before hummingbird extender, after hummingbird extender.

Literally. Dude. Yeah, I'll do that. I think I said it on the last pod. I'm really excited for next summer. I'm gonna do Amazon next summer for sure. You have to get, like, to really do Amazon, right? You got to get some trademarks and, you know, all the aces.

Yeah, it's a, all of this stuff.

And it's like, it's definitely a process. And I'm operating off of, you know, a three to four month busy season. It's very seasonal. Right. I feel like Michael Gurley over here, dude, selling fireworks. I was like, dude, we make all of our money in one week a year. And so I think it's like, it's just like that because, you know, hummingbird migration patterns, dude, you could read my book on it. Hummingbird attraction. 101 $14.

Right?

I mean, only 92% of it. The migration patterns will start to be unfavorable for my business heading into like September. And so I'm going to prep it for next summer on Amazon because I think I can compete way better there. And then I'll just keep scooping sugar, baby. You know? I'm in.

That's gonna be the name.

It's one of those. Dude, it's like, it's like I said before, like, do I think it's some massive thing? No, but like, do I think I could make 100k a year? Yeah, why not? Like, it's easy enough.

You just need a Jungle Scout account and the ability to use ChatGPT and Google and Facebook and you can use ChatGPT to learn how to use all those tools? I just got an idea and I, I kind of love it. Do you know if, like replit cursor bolt Winter. Do you know if any of them have like, white label ability, like, where you can just resell it? Okay, well, it's happening, right? Clearly someone's going to do it. Someone wants to be first. Okay. We talk a lot about building wrappers for those that don't know what a wrapper is. It's basically taking all of the functionalities of an LLM like ChatGPT or Claude and wrapping it in a different interface for a specific use case. Like, Sam and I have talked about building a recipe builder app that's literally just chatgpt, but the whole marketing angle is how to build recipes or cook food. Here's my idea. I know you've got like a personal CRM that you've built for yourself and you're loving it and other people are using it, or like a productivity app, which you could talk about, but everyone wants a personal CRM. Everyone's talked about it. Like there's. There's been a lot of people that have tried and failed to launch it, but personal CRM is just one example. I think the brilliant idea here is to sell like a customizable personal CRM that's basically white labeled replit, where you get something that fits 80% of people, a personal CRM. Right? And it has these features, these features, these features. And it fits most people. But then the whole sales pitch is once you get into it and you're like, you know what? I kind of want dark mode. Click dark mode. Okay. And really on the back end, replit is just making it happen. And right now, in replit, if we're building something, we can see the code happening on the right side and that's fine. But for most people, it's not fine because it's friction and it's confusing and it's just. It's friction. Right? So I would hide all that and it would just be like one click. Or you could have a chat box that's like, you know what, this might be a little more complex, but I would love my personal CRM to text me reminders when it's my friend's birthday. And that's not part of this feature. But I know what I paid for is customization. And so I'm going to go to this chat box and say, text me every time my friend has a birthday so I can text them happy birthday. And then it's like, all right, give me. All right, five minutes later, done. And all it is is just replic fixing it. And then it's like, would you like to publish this? Just like webflow or whatever. Yes, publish. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I have a thought.

I gotta hear it.

Okay, so, love. I think that that's sick. I think there's a bunch of people that are looking or are aware of the fact that they can build their own stuff similar to my, my app. Now I'm not trying to go and make money off that and sell it as a thing or any of that. I think if I were to do it again, I think I could sell that as a template. Right. Because I don't think you need to white label or like hide the fact that Replit exists. Right. I think you pick a platform, you build this core foundational product on it. Right. Let's just say personal CRM. I think you do more of what's his name, Mark Laverne, something like that. He runs Launch Fast. That's essentially a boilerplate. It's Launch FA st.

Okay.

Launch Fast. Sick thing. Makes a bunch of money selling a one time purchase of a starter template for. It's a boilerplate for software. Very cool that devs can come in buy installation. It's a foundation. I think that that business model is going to become way more popular because of subscription fatigue on software. People don't want to have to pay $18 a month for a personal CRM. But if they can buy a personal CRM template for $100 one time and you package that with, hey, we'll give you a bunch of prompts that help you customize this right here is the prompt that we would use to install dark mode. Here's the prompt that we would use to have it integrate with Twilio. And so you build that template piece and then give people the support on the back to be able to customize it. I think a lot of people are excited about this recurring business model. Like everyone wants the MRR stuff to happen when like you and I have those conversations of like MRR and LTV. Right. Like you can front load your LTV by just paying one time like if you're average, if you charge $20 a month, but people are only staying on for six months on average. From a growth perspective, it makes more sense for you to charge $120 one time.

Yeah, get that money at the beginning.

Of the transaction like than waiting for your cash flow like to catch up to that number. And I think that's what we've seen the success with Launch Fast. He's not charging a subscription, he's just charging it one time. $200 every time you want to use this thing. And it's the foundation of your software. And so I think that there's a world where people can go and do that. I think lovable. And these tools will continue to get more popular. I think that the people that Are your customers of looking for something that's a more customizable CRM are not like the Nancy's of the world that are using their contacts app. Right. Like these are people that are probably more tech advanced, probably aware of way more tools that doesn't fit their specific use case. And so their likelihood of being able to use a lovable is a lot higher. And so you go build, we've built the personal CRM template that you can go and change to whatever you want. Here's the Core Foundation. $200 for this, plus 80 prompts that help you customize it to whatever you want. One time purchase. Yeah, I just think that that's easier versus what you're going to charge me $18 a month for a software you're going to ask me to build? Like yeah, you know what I'm saying?

Subscriptions are in for a world of hurt in general. Oh, a hundred percent with all this AI. Dude, I just hung up with a guy, my friend a couple hours ago. He works for a company. They spend $200,000 a year on Salesforce and guess what? Salesforce for them does way more than they need it to do, yet somehow doesn't do a lot of the things that they need it to do either, right? It does like 60% of what they need it to do, but like 400% more features than they would ever need and they're paying 200 grand. So he went and vibe coded and a CRM for their company for their needs, knowing exactly what. And now he's presenting it to them at $100,000 a year that he vibe coded for like $200 in Replic credits. Eight hours at the computer having fun while he watched Netflix. Okay, so replit, they just announced they hit like 100 million in ARR in six months or something. But I think someone needs to white label Replit or something for the Nancy's of the world, right? Not just for a CRM but like let's say they want to put all their paper recipes in an LLM and ask it questions. And so you sell them that template as you said, and then for maybe for the customizable function, maybe there is a recurring fee to that, maybe it's a flat fee for the template. Hey, upload your recipes and you've got your own LLM for all your recipes. But for 10 bucks a month you can customize it to do whatever you need to.

Whatever you want. Yeah, it's a market learning curve question, right? Like will the Nancy's of the world it's like the 8020 rule, right? Because like it's, you go to all the Nancy's of the world, but like how much different is Nancy A's version of this versus Nancy's B Where like does it need to be customized, right? Or it's like well 80% of Nancy's want dark mode, so we should just build the button, right?

Exactly.

That's a one time not like here's the prompt you give lovable to customize the dark mode. It's just like well dark which starts to get into this like it's, it has parallels to the open source software community, right?

Where it's like for Nancy, right?

But it's like then how do you make it approachable for Nancy that like she actually cares, right? Like she's not sitting there as a product lead being like, dude, you know what make this app way better for me is dark mode. Like I don't even think that thought is actually crossing her mind. It's like this app is light mode. I want to cook.

Right? What that could mean is like let's say you sell it to a hundred Nancy's and the foundation, the template you're selling looks this way. And after you sell a hundred, you learn that yeah, 98% of people all want these four features that were custom that I didn't add. Okay, I'm going to add those as the default now. Now when I push Facebook ads, my cost per acquisition goes from $40 to $25 because because of all the hundred Nancy's that just bought for me, I know exactly what they want now. So it makes your sales process even easier.

Constant product feedback into it's just iteration, like same. That model is happening on every single software platform on the face of the earth. If it, if it's being operated well, right. We're like, oh, we've got a bunch of feature requests. We should probably prioritize that feature build, create that loop, right? And so it's like the world where that sort of product exists, well and like is worth doing is farther away than right now. I think that like most of the Nancy's of the world just want an app that does 90% of what they want. I don't even think they would customize it like in that meaningful of a way.

I agree. But I think one problem with that is that because building these wrappers is more accessible than ever. Like Nancy is, she's going to log into the app store and just see a bunch of stuff that looks the same 100% and like if one of them were customizable with a white labeled replit, it stands out. It's the only different one.

If it's. If it's using it as a marketing mechanism to create that I get behind.

And in all likelihood, they may never even use the customization.

That's what I was going to say is like.

But they're going to pay extra for it, right?

That piece of it is the arbitrage, not the fact that they're going to use it that much. It's the fact that it makes them pick you.

Yeah, exactly.

They can, in theory.

And you almost have to have a recurring aspect to that because of the credits. Like, you're going to be paying credits to replit on the back end, right?

Yeah. At least in the short term. At some point you'd get to a spot where you would. Again, it's just like. It's ltv, but like average lifetime credit usage per customer. Right. Where you're like, on average in the first 12 months of people using us, they use 87 credits each.

Yep.

Right.

And so just some customers lose you money, some make you money.

It. Yeah, you just kind of. You play the average game at scale and then you can play it and be like, well, I can charge 209 lifetime access because it's. The credit usage is not that bad or it doesn't work and you have to go monthly.

When Chris eats at CC's, we lose money. When his wife eats, we make money. But we have a john hat.

Literally, dude. That's the math. Everyone's running it, dude.

Oh, well. Well, where can we find you, Sam on Twitter?

Sam Thompson.

All right, one week from today, I'm chatting to Sam again about other cool business ideas, so be sure to come back for that one. Thanks for hanging out on the Kerner office.