This One Belief Will Kill Your Business Before It Starts with Shannon | Ep. #177

If you're stuck in the suck and you don't do anything different, you're going to be in the suck forever.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

I've had fear my whole life. Deep, deep fear of failure in this greater sense of being a failure to my family, my wife. When my kids were born, I was just like, dude, I totally have to perform here. I learned early on to do things backwards because everything I tried didn't work. Then I did a few things that were not normal and it worked. And all of a sudden I started making a lot of money and being successful. I know that if I lift myself up, I'm going to lift up a whole community of people. You have to start solve these little problems as you go along.

What if you're listening to this and you think, I don't like problem solving? You all know and love Shannon. By now I had him back on to talk about the mindset required to be an entrepreneur, because he's been doing it for almost 60 years. This is powerful stuff. Enjoy. Share with a friend. We'll see you next time. Let's talk about the mindset fundamentals or like the mindset foundations that one should build or have before deciding to become an entrepreneur.

One of the most important ones is people think like problems are barriers instead of opportunities. And I think that I always joke and I say you should fall in love with problem solving because that's your job. Every single day, that's your job. And if you can get that mindset in your head of, okay, what's the next problem? Not, oh, once I solve these problems, it's going to be easy street. That never happens because you're just going to create new problems happen. You know, you have to hire people or you have to get a building and then you have to buy inventory and you have to do this and the bank and the lawyers and the this and the that. So if you just understand from the beginning that, oh, this is it, I'm in the problem solving business, I think that's a really crucial something to print out, put it on your whiteboard and to look at it all the time and remind yourself, because you're going to get so frustrated. And one of the. I just think the biggest risk is, you know, people quit because they think they follow people like you listen to me and I talk my story and I had success, but it's massively huge grind over and over and over. And I love talking about it and I love being enthusiastic and getting other people involved. But I want to be realistic with them as well. So falling in love and problem solving I think is just huge.

What if you're listening to this and you think, I don't like problem solving, but I want to, I want to like it. Are there any exercises?

Yeah, I think you have to start small, right? This is why I tell people, like, if you want to become a reseller, sell stuff in your house. We talked about this on a previous episode, that you should just learn and find, yes, you will limit the problems, right. You aren't going to solve. And you're saying, oh, I've solved this problem, now I know how to solve it. So next time it will be easier or it will be less of a surprise. I don't know if easier is the right word, but I think you just have to start at a low level. Solve these little problems as you go along. If you get so frustrated and you can't, like get your resale permit or you can't, you don't want to learn the accounting software. You don't know how to deal with ebay and you think you're getting ebay's, you know, holding you back or they're not supporting you. There's techniques that you have to do and I talk about them all the time, but if you're not willing to do them, you know, there's that saying that we can only make suggestions, right? But people have to make decisions. They have to decide.

How can people decide? Like if they get to that point where they're frustrated and they can't get the resale permit or whatever, where's the line between, like, this is not for you, like, this is just not for you and that's okay, it doesn't need to be for everyone and keep pressing through, like, this could be for you. Like, how can people decide that? Like, where's the line between just natural difficulty and this is. I'm trying to make an apple and orange here.

I was felt I had no choice. It was always money driven, right. I had to make a living. It's definitely easier when everything you own, like, could fit in a pickup truck, right? When you're young and you don't have something easier. But I think that the problems can guide you because maybe this isn't for you. Maybe, oh, I'm going to start this kind of business and do some small experiments and you learn all this. I don't like this. You know, this is a nightmare. In my experience, it led me to something different. I constantly still going through that where it's like, well, just like this business, this content business, some parts of it I love and other parts I don't like at all. It stresses me out. And I, you know, even. Even coaching other people, I feel a deep sense of responsibility and that I have to really be careful with because I get so into it that it stresses me out. You know, I can make suggestions, and if you follow this path, this is what worked for me. But the outcome is up to the person.

Have you ever seen that meme where it's like, oh, I don't remember what it was, but it's kind of like men, when they go running, they tell themselves, if I don't reach that next telephone pole, my whole family's going to die. Right. It's just like. And men do that. Like, we have this weird thing in our brain where to motivate ourselves or to lift heavy or to run far or run fast, we lie to ourselves and make up these fake scenarios. And it's kind of funny. It's a meme, but it's kind of how we operate. And I was thinking back to when I weighed 260lbs all of my twenties.

I couldn't believe that I saw that picture. I was like, that can't be real.

And I went on strict keto. So as a member of my church, I've never tasted alcohol. I've never smoked anything or done anything right. Never even tasted it. And so part of the way I was able to not eat carbs for five months straight was I would lie to myself. And, like, if we'd go out to dinner and then dessert would be passed around, I would tell myself, eating that cookie is not an option. Like, it's not. Just, like, if they were to pass around alcohol, I wouldn't even consider it. It wouldn't even be a temptation because I've never done it and I'm not about to start. And so I would kind of convince myself in my brain that the cookie was alcohol or a dangerous drug or something. And, like, it removes the choice from me, Right?

Yeah.

I don't even have to choose. It's like, that's not even a choice. That's not an option. I'm not going to do that. Whereas the times since being off keto and I've kind of had some willpower and, like, didn't. Yeah, I knew I shouldn't eat that cookie or the third cookie. And I do anyway. I don't. It's because I'm not employing that tactic. I'm not telling myself it's not an option. It is an option. And I'm kind of weighing my, you know, the cost benefit analysis, and then I always end up doing it. And I think there's several lessons in there. One is, like, there's a lot of power to. And this isn't a good way to say it. To lying to ourselves. Right. To convincing ourselves. So, like, tricking our brain into something that's not actually there because our brains are powerful. And then two, there's a lot of power to.

You're right. It's that language that you use. Right. That is very, very true. And when I started, my whole thing is I have this deep, deep fear of failure, like, deep in my body that, like, I feel like I break out in hives if I have to. And I have failed, don't get me wrong. But over and over, in this greater sense of being a failure to my family, my wife and I've written a lot about this, that finding someone that motivates you like, that you're performing. I'm still getting up early in the morning to impress my wife. When I. My kids were born, I was just like, dude, I totally have to perform here. I wanted to be the. The great dad. I wanted people to see me as connected with my kids. I wanted to be a coach. I wanted to be the scout leader. And so I always think of that failure as, like, I do anything I can. I have to avoid that because my story is really important. The story that I tell myself in my head and the stories that I tell the people around me that I care about. I do care what people think. You know, I know they tell you you shouldn't, but that's ridiculous. And I think that's just a lie. In society, we all care what people think. You know, we care more some people than others. Right?

Yeah.

You know, once you connect with people and do things, like, I would know. I could not show up and be late for this. This podcast because there's. I would chop my arm off, you know, if I versus doing that, because it's like, oh, this guy. I got this connection, and I want to make a good impression and that kind of thing. That is what I did. And it kept me going because I thought I learned early on to do things backwards and to not because. And I was just forced to because everything I tried didn't work. And then I did a few things that were kind of not normal and it worked. And all of a sudden, I started making a lot of money and being successful, and I was like, well, this is weird. So what if I Just kept doing this. So I think of myself as an old man and I think about what's. What stories do I want to tell when I'm sitting around the campfire? I use that metaphor every day in my life. What am I going to tell about this story? What am I going to say about this? Even my wife and I just went on this awesome vacation and both of us are just like, well, even if it sucks, we'll have some great stories to tell. Even if it's a disaster. And it was almost a disaster. We, our plane got shipped, we had to get shift to another airline. All this, I had to ride in the middle seat for, you know, five hours on all the, from, you know, from business class all the way back to nothing, you know, stuff, tendency. But you think about it, this is going to be a good story. We're going to talk about it. So back to your original thing of how, how did you know? Sometimes you do have to stop. But that to me I just like, okay, well that part didn't work. But look at all these things I figured out now. How do I, how do I lean into that? Because it's, there's so many millions of different things you can do to be independent. That's what I was looking for, independence and to be in control of it myself.

I'm drawing so many connections here. Like A, the person who outwardly says, I don't care what people think about me, they probably care more than the average person. And that's why they're saying that, to project that, right?

Yep.

And B, I was thinking how you and I'm the same, I'm the exact same here. Wanting to do things just for the story or kind of hedging against a failure by saying, ah, at least it'll be a good story. I do the exact same thing that probably is directly tied into us caring about what people think, you know, we.

Want to tell people. I'm already thinking about what I'm going to say.

Yeah, we want people to be impressed by our stories. I failed. But this is a cool story though, isn't it? You like the story though, don't you?

Because there's a third act. There's a third act that always. You come back, oh, I lost a million dollars. But let me share with you how I turned it around and I made 10 million. You know what I mean? That those are great stories, but it's a trying to be self aware and recognizing that that's a story I'm really telling in my head. I am delusional there's no doubt about it. I conjure things from nothing. It is magic. But if you, if you keep telling yourself that and you couple it, you have to bolt it on to action. Right?

Yeah.

And like when I first came across your content, I was like, well, this guy's just all about ideas. Those are easy. That's easy. I could sit and spout a hundred ideas. But however, then I, as I got more into it and you know, you sucked me in, I realized that, oh, there's action here. This is, look at this research, look at this scraping, look at this. All these tools that he's sharing to get these things done. That's why you're so successful, because you, you have bolted on this delusional belief that you can create something from nothing. Then you've bolted it together with here's the action items, the reality and the tools that you need to make that delusion really happen. And that's huge. It's huge.

Thank you. The ideas are like the bait, you know, that's what people get. That's like the fly trap.

Yeah. The auctions are the bait too. Right. I believe in the whistle. The whistle, the workhorse and the whale concept. Right. You need a whistle for your business. What gets attention and then you get people in and the average sales, the average stuff is your workhorse. It's your stuff that makes your bread and butter money every day. And then the whale is, here's your huge offer and you're gonna have less people attracted to each of those levels. Right. So it's the same thing. You know, I post about these auctions all the time and yeah, it's, it's fun. And people think, oh, well, how do I get involved in this? And then you start to bolt on some of the realities, like, well, this is, these are the tools you need and here's the community you should, you know, join and all that. All that kind of stuff. So it works.

I want to get back to the whistle, workhorse and whale, but I gotta get these other thoughts outta my head first.

Go ahead.

Just about like the ideas are being bait. My short form videos get over a hundred million views a month and I guarantee you probably over 90, 95 million of those people think I'm a total idiot because they're never going deeper. They see one and then they swipe. Oh, that's so dumb. Oh, that's so dumb. And that really is at odds with my desire for people, for people to like me and to, for me caring what people think. Like, I don't know how those two mesh because they're exact opposites.

One of your superpowers is you're not afraid of being embarrassed. I wish I was better at it. If you can not be afraid of being embarrassed, man, the world is your oyster because it allows you to fail and look bad or stupid or not worry about what you this or sticking the camera in front of your face or you know, when you're running down the street with your rucksack and you're sweating like crazy and talking, I'm just like, dude, this, this is ridiculous. But it works because you don't care, you know? Well, maybe you care, but you're not, you don't have that fear of embarrassment, like I'm not going to be at my best form or whatever. You're just like, hey, I just need to get the content out and I'm going to do this.

It's interesting because I think I just had a realization as you said that I agree it's probably some of that not being afraid of being embarrassed. But at the same time, like anytime I'm at a public function, like I don't want to people to know that I'm there. I don't want them to look at me or focus on me.

Right?

And so what I think it is even more than that is I don't read the comments most of the time.

That's good.

And I don't have the bandwidth. Like it'd be physically impossible to read all the comments. So if I only put out like one video a day and they never really went viral and There were only 10 comments a day and eight were negative, I might quit. But because of the fact that I, I'm. It's willful, strategic ignorance. I. Ignorance can be blissful.

Yes.

And I choose to not know because when I do go read the comments, I'll respond like, well, that's not true because. And then I'm like, what are you doing, Chris? Who cares? Because most of the top liked comments on most of my short form videos. Now long form is the exact opposite. The comments are very positive, but on the shorts they're negative and I'm an idiot and I don't know what I'm talking about.

You don't? That's correct.

I just, I can't read them. I have to strategically ignore them and then only then can I press forward.

Yeah, I'm very thin skinned, like on with my stuff too. If you, if you come out and start, I'm just like, oh, I just block you. I just don't have time for it. I just admit it. I'm thin skinned. I don't want to be. I'm trying to help people. I'm doing it to have fun for myself. I'm very selfish, but in the sense that in my head, my selfishness helps other people. Right. I have been hugely motivated to be.

Successful and I'm going to clip that one line out. My selfishness helps other people. No context. I'll just post.

Yeah, that's. That's correct. That's some like border crazy narcissist comment. Yeah, yeah. But I know that if I lift myself up, I'm going to lift up a whole community of people. My family, my friends. I know it. I've seen it in action.

It's like the greater good.

Yeah, it is. And it works. I saw it from a very young age and I was fortunate to have some success and to take some risks. But then, you know, you think you're bulletproof and you think everything you're going to do works. And then, so you need some good. You need to get kicked in the teeth once in a while to readjust your brain and to remind yourself that you don't have it all figured out. And it also helps you pivot into new things because nothing lasts forever. Every good thing is going to end. And also every bad thing usually ends too. Right? That's a good thing. So we sometimes think that good things will last forever and that bad things only last a little while, but, well, they can flip. And if you get caught in a bad rut, you know, a rut is just a grave with both ends kicked out. It's just bad. You've got to get out of this. You just have to change something. Something. It could be anything. You should walk to work instead of drive. You should change your office. You should have your sales meetings on the roof of your building. You should, you know, you have to change your physicality and the. Anything you could change the way you dress, you could. You just have to. Physically, for me, changing as much of the things as I can when things are bad helps me power through and get to the other side.

Well, this quote just. It's not my quote. I heard it months ago, but it just popped in my head. This morning right before this call, I was talking to my wife about a struggle we were having with one of our kids. And I was like, well, what do we do about it? What do we change? And then we're like, I don't know this. And then I said, well, nothing changes if Nothing changes. I wish I could claim that quote. It's not mine. I don't know where it came from, but it's just so beautiful. Nothing changes if nothing changes. And like, duh. But then you think a little deeply on it and it's like, I just have to do something differently or nothing will change.

It won't. And if you expect that, isn't that the definition of insanity? Right. Is not making any change and thinking it's not going to be the same way. It's crucial. And you get stuck in these bad situations, especially in business, but even just in life in general. And for me, that changing the physicality, like I, I always tell people and this always freaks them out. One of the things that we regularly do, my wife and I, is we change the side of the bed that we sleep on.

Really?

Interesting. Absolutely, absolutely.

Because where did you learn that from?

I don't know if I read it somewhere or. And I can remember telling her the first time and she was like, what? Why would we want to do that? I'm like, because it's change, it's different.

It gets.

You used to doing things in a different manner because we all are creatures of habit and we all fall into those, myself included, where you get, oh, I love this repetition. And it feels really good. But then you get smashed in the side of the head and you have a hard time changing. So changing the side of the bed you sleep on the side of the couch you sit on, changing it up all the, you know, I mean, we don't do it every week, but we do it every few months.

Yeah.

And when I tell people that and I suggest that they tell me I'm crazy.

No, I love that they give me.

Every, every reason in the book. Well, I have to sleep near the door. What? Why? Oh, it's protection. Where do you live? Yeah, what's going on?

When does last time you got attacked?

Yeah. Come on. It's crazy. And so if you just do, if you just change things like that, it's, it's really, it changes it. Like, I love to hunt and in the wintertime I sleep in a beat up old trailer, you know, a few days of the week and it's. I can't wait to do it and I can't wait to stop doing it. You know, at the end I'm like, oh God, it's going to be great and I love it. But then I'm ready to do something else. So that change, if you can find ways to bring it into your life a little more it goes back to your question about problem solving. It helps you adapt to your worldview. Should be that this will not last, this will not stay the same. And maybe it's because I was in the consumer electronics business forever. Right. That nothing stays the same and the prices are always going down. So you're constantly like, oh, what am I going to sell? And I can't sell that anymore because they don't. Apple doesn't make it. And I get this and that and that. So you're forced to just keep adapting to new ways to generate revenue. Because, you know, I had all these people depending on me, all these employees and landlords and lawyers and bankers all depending on me.

I think people learn so much faster when they do it the hard way. You know, you could have been in an easier industry, but you wouldn't have learned as much or as fast. You kind of put your learning on supercharged mode.

Yeah. And that's why I always tell people in the beginning, we're going to learn how to do this manually. I'm going to teach you how to do it manually. Yes, we can automate it, and we will. But if you skip that and go right to this fully automated part, I don't. Yeah, I don't think you value it as much, you know, when you're.

Yeah.

When I was selling, you know, handbags on Poshmark, you know, you have to follow, like, thousands of people a day. It's a weird system now. Yes, you can definitely automate it. And once I did, I was like, whew, it's great. But I learned I could follow a thousand people in, like, 10 minutes. So I could just sit, you know, chilling out in the evening. It's like, oh, you know, my thumb is incredibly fast. That's probably my secret success. So you just do it. But then I knew I understood the power of the. That on that platform, the power of those follows. And then I learned, because I was doing it manually, I learned that there were better people to follow than there are certain people that you should follow. You need to follow this type of person because they're going to be attracted to your account when they see you followed them. And that person's a buyer, you know, and then this. And so there's. There's a whole system. I learned because I sat on, you know, the couch in the evening and pressed that follow button and looked and see who am I following and what. When they started buying from me, I'd be like, well, what kind of buyer is that? And what makes what attracted to them. And then I heard I created this whole system around it because I did it manually.

That's making me think of a friend that I have a couple friends that are very, very quick to automate things. Very quick. And they'll have an idea and then they'll, they'll delegate it, they'll outsource it, or they'll automate it and then they'll move on to the next thing. And what I've learned is they don't really have all that many skills. They're never getting in the weeds. They're like, I don't know if they think they're above that or they don't have time for that, but it's just like, the assistant can do this, we can automate that, we can do that. And then when you talk to them about like the actual fundamentals of the business, they don't know. They've never really been there.

That's interesting. Yeah, I feel like very. And I talk about keeping things simple. Like when somebody explains their business to me, if it's like really complex and all this stuff's like, wow, man, that's impressive. It's impressive. But how much of that dollar hits your pocket? I'm always thinking, you know, and, and I always feel like these guys are way smarter than I am. But doing things and keeping it simple and like learning to press buttons yourself and learning why it works, it's done really well for me.

I finally thought back to the second example of not eating carbs.

Ah.

Because it's like, have you ever heard the phrase, that's how my ADD brain works?

Yeah.

You've heard the phrase how you do one thing is how you do everything.

Yeah, I've heard that. Yep.

Yeah, I think that's a load of crap. Okay, that's my hot take for today. It's a load of crap. You know, like I, I'm very, like, my car stays very clean. It stays clean. But then other parts of my life are very messy. There are some things in my businesses where I am like a micromanager and I have attention to detail and it's like, no, you gotta change this, you gotta change that. And then there are other things where I'm not. It's like, eh, whatever, whatever. Like, I think people can be trapped by feeling like they are who they are in a certain way and they have to be that same person in every other way. Like for five months of my life, I didn't touch a carb and I was insanely self disciplined. And then for 37 years of my life. I'm usually eating a lot of carbs. Yeah, I usually have no willpower or self control. Like, any thoughts on that? Any experiences with that in your life?

I would agree. I think I like certain things really clean and other ones like, like my garage is always a disaster because I've got a million projects going on and I always, I distrust people that have super clean garages with no tools out and everything's like just Sheetrock, you know, I'm like, what do you do? What do you, you know, what you think? But I think you're right. And I also think it's. I don't know how much related this comment is to that, but I think it's kind of fun if you talk about this contrarian stuff you do. I think I've been encouraged by talking about my business and people going, what, how does that work? I always tell people they think your life is a certain way because their life is that way. And, oh, you go to work and you come home and you chill out and you watch tv and then you go back to work and you come home, you chill out and then you borrow a bunch of money and you could live this life and you have this, and you have a boat and a jet ski and this. But I think when you can just kind of drop little hints about how your life is very different. I really love doing that. And yeah, I like, I love dropping comments. I've gotten better at it when I've, as I've gotten older. But like, I don't really like drinking water. Right. I don't like water. I don't think it tastes good. All kinds of stuff. Coffee, you know, maybe have a soda once in a while. Iced tea. But everything has a flavor. So I made this comment, I was at something, you know, a couple weeks ago, and I was like, you know, I haven't had a glass of water in like two years and the whole table just quiet.

Yes.

And even though, I mean, it's.

Who invited this guy?

Yeah, it's kind of bs, but I mean, it's directionally true. Right. I drink water with other ways, you know, and, and juice and tea and all this kind of stuff. But once you have some confidence, if you have a little bit of success, you don't need much. A little bit of success. Like, if you can make that extra thousand bucks a month or whatever, you can start talking about it like, yeah, I made an extra thousand bucks. And.

Yeah.

How'd you, how'd you do that? Oh, I just walked around My house and I sold this, and I did that, or I did that, you know, whatever. So I guess it is that the way you live, you know, where your life is in one section is the way it is and ever. I think that's B.S. i don't think it's true.

I think the best way to get confidence is to fake that. You have confidence to start, and then you fake it till you make it. And then eventually the best way to build confidence is actually have something worth being confident about, to do something yourself with your hands. Find some level of success, at least that you find successful. That's the most important part. And that will build confidence more than any book ever could.

Oh, of course. And I think you have to know you're going to be afraid. I've had fear my whole life. I still have it because I'm like, oh, I got to try this new thing, and I got to do this. And yes, I don't need to work anymore, but I'm afraid if I stop, I'll die. You know what I mean? And I'll just sit here and rot. And I don't want to do that. When I was young, I was afraid that, how can I support my family? So I used that as a motivation. It didn't hold me back. I think, like, young people today, unfortunately, have been. I'll make a terrible generalization because I'm an old guy now, but we have a whole generation that has been taught that your fears and anxieties should be kind of siloed or they make you special, and you should really pay attention to them and don't push yourself too far because it can kind of hold, you know, and they hold you back. I had those same fears and anxieties. I put them behind me to push me forward, right. Because I knew that I just couldn't stay here. If you're, you know, if you're stuck in the suck, right, and you don't do anything different, you're going to be in the suck forever. So move yourself forward to get out of that situation and try different things.

Change something.

Yeah, just like we said, change something. Change the side of the bed. Yeah, you really go out of your. Out of your comfort level. If I had to say one thing, it's embracing that change has been a big deal for me. Hard for people around you, though. Hard on my wife. Hard. Because it can definitely be tough for them.

All right, if you like Shannon, he's going to be on again a week from today. We'll see you next time on the Kerner office.