You Don’t Need an Online Business to Get Rich

Most of everything is not on the Internet, believe it or not, but that's like the most valuable stuff. They charge between 50 and $100 a week to service these. They were here for five minutes. They do 25 a day in the middle of nowhere, Idaho. I am so hyped on this idea. And someone needs to copy this. You know those little inner tubes you buy on Amazon? 15 bucks $95 to rent an inner tube from Maxim. This is a three hour rental. They send two letters per month to people paying $10 per month that tell a story. We're talking 310 grand a month.

What?

They're not doing paid ads. It's just word of mouth.

I almost don't want to release this podcast episode because they're going to get freaking destroyed.

So I'm sitting in my Airbnb, my wife takes the kids to go see some friends. I got the whole day to work. So I'm thinking, what can I film? I want to film some content about small businesses. And I see this hot tub out here thinking, oh, that guy Austin on Twitter, he has a hot tub maintenance business where he only services Airbnbs. That could be cool. I could do a video on that. So I'm kind of writing it up, I'm scripting it, and then in the front yard, I see someone pull up a white van. I'm thinking, who's this? Is this the cleaner? Because I'm here for three more days. Why is the cleaner here? Guess who it was, Nick.

I don't know.

It's the hot tub servicing business. They pulled up right at the same moment that I was trying to make content about hot tub servicing. Hmm.

I'm sorry.

So what am I gonna do? Do I have any option but to go out there?

You've reached a whole new level, Chris, of influencer. You influenced the universe to send hot tub maintenance people to your house. That's how much of an influencer you are right now.

What can I say? So I go out there on the deck, I surprise these two girls. They're probably 16, 17 years old, sisters. I think their dad owns the business. And this business does two things. They do hot tub maintenance and servicing for short term rental owners. And they do hot tub moving because guess what? A retail business that sells hot tubs, they don't want to move the things, they don't have the equipment. They don't want to be in the logistics business. The delivery business. Company moves all of them for them.

First of all, that's one of the most Mormon things that I've ever heard. Like, their dad owns the business and they're coming out to service your hot tub. Like, oh, how's it going, brother corner? Yeah, dad sent us here. Sounds like there must might be a maintenance issue. Do you mind if we have a word of prayer before we start? Like, okay, the word prayer was a joke at the end of that. But like, but like, seriously, how many Mormon entrepreneurs are there that have their kids working for them? Dude, that's like genius.

I love it. I know, I know. And so I start picking their brain and they're doing. They do 25 hot tubs a day. A day in the middle of nowhere, Idaho. They charge between 50 and $100 a week to service these. They were here for five minutes and that includes the time that I spent peppering them with questions. So I spent the next three hours down a rabbit hole researching all types of like hot tub related businesses. Hot tub moving, hot tub maintenance, repairs, hot tub cover sales. And two days ago I posted that whole deep dive on the podcast. And, and I just love the hot tub business.

Now what would you start? Like, of those businesses that you just mentioned, which ones would you start?

You know, I want to say hot tub maintenance and servicing, that was my number one. But the more I ponder it, the more I think I like the moving business more.

You were thinking about hot tubs? I think you and I have talked about this idea before, but I just got reminded of it. I was up at Lake Cascade. Oh, dude, it was so beautiful. You know, Ellen, he's got a big company. He's been super successful. He's, he has a cabin on the lake in Cascade. He's got a boat and beautiful. But in order for us to go up there as a family reunion, what did we have to do? Everybody had to buy their own food. We had to go up there early to gas up the boat and the jet skis and we had to make sure that everything was perfect in the backyard. We had to stock the fridge after we got done. We had to, you know, take the stuff off of the, the bedding, yada, yada yada. And it just reminded me of this idea that I've had for a couple of years where I think that there's an opportunity for somebody to create a concierge prep a service for rich people. Because if someone came to my brother in law and was like, hey, look, just text us before you come up. We'll gas, we'll gas up the boats, we'll gas up the jet skis, we'll make sure that they're serviced and maintained. We'll clean up the yard a little bit, we'll stock the fridge with what you want and we'll charge you, you know, whatever, a thousand bucks to do that plus cost. In a heartbeat. I know in a heartbeat my brother in law would do that. And I just think anybody who's got a lake house or you know, has enough money to have a lake house would pay to do that. Who would not? Like, why would you not do that? And I don't know why there isn't a service that exists like that.

I love it. We did the same thing. We rented a boat on bear Lake on July 3rd and we had the same thing. We rented it, right? So it was different scenario, but it took us an hour to like sign the waivers and fill up the tube and learn how to do it. And we could have skipped all that. Like we could have done that before we went. So I feel like there's also a SaaS play here where you could build something, you could vibe code, something that these boat rental places pay for monthly to help streamline the waiver process, the learning process, like take this video, check the box that you learned how to start it, how to back it up yet. Then you just show up and go.

You know, and there's like two ways to do it. There's the one way which is like, hey, I'm starting this business and I'm going to go actually do the fulfillment, right? I'm going to gas up the jet skis, I'm going to stock the fridge, I'm going to get the beds ready, etc. Flyers would be perfect. I'm just going to go to each one of these houses and I'm going to set flyers. And you know, I take a couple months for the owner to actually come up and see that, but I think that would be a fairly easy way to get customers. And then on the back end to your idea, let's say that you're a boat rental place, you do the same thing, you just drop the flyer off and say, hey, if you want to come rent a boat, scan this QR code, fill out all this stuff before you come. And it's like now when you go to Enterprise or you go to Hertz where you don't have to interact with an agent, you just show up, grab a car and leave. Like why don't they, why don't we have the same processes for going and renting things? It seems like such an easy, low hanging fruit.

That's an interesting framework now that I think of it is like find an established industry like car rentals, been around forever. Look at the features and the offerings that are just now starting to come out. Such as, you know, no need to check in, just walk up to your car and leave. Okay, that's innovative, that's new. Take that same feature to like a sub industry of that like boat ATVs. We're renting a side by side tomorrow. Insert anything rentals and just implement that like as a service, right? And then offer that service to, to their companies.

Dude, that would be a genius idea. Paddle boards, skin boards, like anything kayaks, anything boat related near lake. It's touchless. Okay, cool, I'll go. Yep, this is what I'm picking up. I mean you do that all the time with UberEats, right? Like, there's got to be some way for them to have compliance where they come in and they just grab the food and go. Side note, for example, anytime we go to a Chipotle, Chris makes this joke. Anytime. If anybody ever goes with Chris to Chipotle, anytime, he's ordering and he's like, oh, hey, why don't we just grab some food from the free food rack?

The free shelf. The Chipotle free shelf. Okay.

That's the Chipotle free shelf. It's where, you know, Uber, Uber drivers, Uber eats drivers come in and pick.

Up the food for their orders.

But yeah, why would they not do that at the lake for any rentals?

Why not? Dude, I think I've spent half of my summer inflating paddle boards and it's the worst experience in the world.

It's terrible.

Can someone invent a paddleboard that has an integrated electric pump? You just press a button, it pumps it up to the right psi and then you, you're done. You press a button and it deflates it. Because they have electric pumps. You hook it up to your car. They're so slow. Like if we have integrated electric pumps on our air mattresses, just do it on a paddleboard.

Oh, it's water.

Water. Dude, stop. We can put freaking rovers on Mars. We can figure out how to waterproof an electric pump. Okay, I can just hear the someone please make a paddle board. It takes 30 minutes to fill those things up. It's the worst. So here's how this works. I make you free videos. I actually know what I'm talking about. I have no greasy sales pitch at the end. And if you implement what I talk about, you'll make a lot more money and have a Better life. And all I ask for in return is that you hit the subscribe button and maybe even the notification bell. Just like that. Thank you.

I actually really like that framework. Go to places that are vacation destinations and find those businesses who are renting out things to people. Like, it doesn't just have to be lake related things. It could be ski, it could, you know, anything like that and be like, hey, this is going to make your service even better. It's touchless. You're going to eliminate the number of employees. You need to have people come check in all of that stuff and then implement it as a SaaS product. Why would you not do that?

No. Dude, speaking of renting stuff in a vacation destination, talk about a monopoly. If I were to buy a business, I think I would buy a business like this. I'm gonna give you two examples. Okay? Island Park, Idaho, population 236. But in the summertime and in the wintertime for skiing, it booms. It's exploding. Right? All you all there is here are like two gas stations, a subway and a grocery store. But it's packed with people. It is a hidden gem. Okay. Crappy cabin up in the woods. 800 grand. Yeah.

For those who don't know, it's like what, an hour from Yellowstone?

It's like 30 minutes from Yellowstone. We were at Yellowstone yesterday. Anyway, they have this float on the Henry's Fork river, right? It's a two hour float and there's this hotel right on the river called Max in. M A C K apostrophe S Max in. And they rent stuff that you can use to float down the river. Maybe an inner tube, kayak, paddle board and a raft. Okay. Now we brought our own stuff because your boy's cheap, right? We rented it from the BYU, like BYU Idaho Equipment center, which is like $2 a week. It's, it's honestly a joke how cheap it is there. Which it has to be that cheaper they would have no business, right?

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

There's so many jokes you want to make right now.

So many jokes. Like how far is BYU Idaho from, from Eagle park or Eagle Island?

Island Park? It's an hour.

It's an hour. Yeah. So Chris goes and rents and drives with all that stuff.

Well, we were in Rexburg. We were in.

Oh, okay.

So we picked him up and we drove up.

Yeah, yeah.

But then we stayed because this was our next stop. This is how much they charge Max In. This is what a legal monopoly looks like. This is what a moat looks like. Okay. You Know those little inner tubes you buy on Amazon? 15 bucks, right? Right. You go floating down a river, you rent them for $5 for a day. That's common price. $95 to rent an inner tube from Maxent. $95.

What?

Stand up paddle board, $105. One kayak $130. Canoe, $170. This is a three hour rental.

That's what we call surge pricing.

Yeah, but all the time, three hour rental, not even an all day rental.

That's insane.

Yes. Talk about profit, right? And this place in Bear Lake, we rented a boat. Their domain name, bearlakerentals.com all right, and for those unfamiliar, Bear Lake is a huge vacation destination for people in Utah, Idaho, all over, right? Imagine buying that boomer owned business, bearlakerentals.com with their own marina right there, right in the center of everything. Is that thing ever going out of business? No, no. Like you really have to screw it up. Like, what's going to disrupt boat rentals? You know what I'm saying? Like, not AI, not a competitor that has the location, it has the domain name, it has the 30 year history. I love these businesses, dude.

They're amazing. But I just talked to a guy who's under LOI for a sign printing and maintenance business. Like that's his whole business is not just sign printing. I'm sorry, sign creation. So it's not just billboards, but it's like custom. Whatever. I don't even know, neon signs. Etc. That's not going on a business. No, I'm sorry. Do people still have eyes? Do they still make impulse buys? Like, yeah, that business is going to be around for a long time.

Okay.

I think it's going to be. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think that'll do it. Freaking love businesses.

So we got watercraft rental businesses, we got watercraft service businesses. We've Talked about watercraft SaaS, businesses that you could vibe code. Once again, I really like hot tub maintenance to Airbnb owners, hot tub rentals to Airbnb owners, and hot tub moving for hot tub retail businesses. You could just be their logistical arm. It costs 600 bucks to move a hot tub.

Can I pitch an idea that I'm having right now for like a mastermind getaway? How cool would it be in the summer to just get whatever, a group of guys and gals who are entrepreneurial, go to Eagle Island. Not Eagle island, whatever. Island park, anywhere. Anywhere that's a vacation destination and be like, all right, we have a competition. There are five teams. Whoever can think of and execute the best business model in the next seven days and make the most money wins.

Like in person businesses.

Yeah, like think about bare lake rentals, right? Yes, they're selling boat rentals or even, or even the one in island park, inner tubes, paddle boards, et cetera. Okay, cool. You go there for one day, you see what the pricing is, and you're like, all right, I'm gonna go drive and buy 10 inner tubes and I'm not gonna sell them for 95 an hour. I'm gonna sell em for 55 an hour and I'm gonna make a homemade sign and I'm gonna do it down the road, like for people like you and I. Like, that would just be fun. That would be. The vacation is like, you're in a cool place, you're thinking of an idea, you go out, you execute it, and it's like within a week, who can actually launch this and make the most money? That would be. Dude, that would be freaking fun.

It's like, you know, the pendulum going towards AI and all that. It would be going the opposite direction and doing an in person hackathon. A local business hackathon, dude.

Yes, A real world hackathon.

That's what it is. Yeah, for real business. Okay, cool.

Well, and it's like, all right, don't buy my course. I'm not going to show you how to do start a business. Don't come to my mastermind. That's going to be in a boardroom for the next, you know, three days, ten hours a day. No, we're gonna go get a cabin. And guess what? You're gonna launch a business and maybe you put like a, I don't know, camp counselor quote unquote in each team that knows that you trust that you've like actually seen that, you know, could actually, you know, Sam Thompson would be one of them. And it's like, cool, let's go, let's go figure it out. Whoever went to that would learn more in 5 days or, or whatever in one day than they would in any freaking classroom setting. Because you're going to get your hands dirty. You're like actually trying to charge money.

Just imagine like a group of guys sitting there. They're on their MacBooks, you've got partnerships of like two or three people and then one of them just stands up to leave. Like, where are they going? Oh my gosh, I heard them talking about inner tubes. Oh, okay, let's do energy. Where are they going? Oh, I heard them talking about selling waters, you know, What I'm saying, like.

Dude, that would be fun. That would be super fun. We could film the whole thing and actually have it be like a season. Just call it Hackathon. That would be so fun. Hey, sorry, I'm getting off topic here, but that would be fun.

Cool. I got an idea for you. You ready?

Okay.

Yep. I got this email from a guy, Connor Breslin. So shout out to him. I'm going to read this to you and I want to hear your. Your real time thoughts. Okay?

Okay.

Hey, Chris, I thought you'd appreciate this cold email idea. It's a bit wild, but kind of ingenious. It's inspired by your $0.01 PayPal trick. Send someone a cent and PayPal nags them to open an account. And then you can put your. Your cold email message to them in the message when you send them the one cent. And then they'll see that message over and over from PayPal. Right. Here's the angle. Shopify order confirmation emails almost always land in a primary inbox. Not spam, not promotions, even if you've never interacted with the sender. That's because these emails come from Shopify's central infrastructure and not from the merchant's domain, which would probably be less trusted by your inbox. So what if instead of cold emailing high value targets and risking spam filters, you use Shopify? Say you're Chris Kerner trying to get in front of 100 top real estate CEOs about stump grinding. You set up a Shopify store, use an import plugin to manually create 100 orders, which I've done. It's very simple. Mark them as paid. It could be a free ebook, guide, anything. And trigger the order confirmation email. Now that email lands right in their primary inbox. They're curious, what did I just buy? They open, boom. It's a tailored message. Like outsource your stump grinding. We handle it all. Click, blow for a quote. It's not for everyone, but it might just work.

I don't know this space well enough. So how would you have it be generated from Shopify? Like using. How would you piggyback off of their infrastructure?

Yeah, yeah. You just make a CSV with like dummy orders. You take all your emails of your target, you put that under email, and then you don't need a lot else in there. You can put in a prize, a product name. Product name could be like outsourced stump grinding. It's kind of like for, like for our vending business. If we had a big, big customer place A manual order. They're like, I don't want to pay the Shopify fees. I don't want you to pay the fees. Give me a 5% discount and I'll just send you a wire. So you make manual invoices. You can convert those invoices to a CSV. You, you still want them in Shopify because all your reporting is pulled from Shopify. So you just upload the CSV and then boom, you can see them now in Shopify and instead of saying like placed on website, it just says like manual import. So you would do that with any dummy product.

You like turning Shopify into your own.

CRM, into your own like, like in a weird waybound cold email agent. CRM. Ish.

Yeah, because this is piggybacking. You're just, you're effectively just borrowing Shopify's infrastructure in order to get in the.

And their trust.

And the trust. Yeah, you're.

I mean, you're doing three things at once. Instead of using hundreds of dollars per month cold emailing software, you're using Shopify, which is like 39amonth. You're saving money. Number two, you're landing in the inbox, which is a cheat code because that's the hardest part of cold emailing. Okay. Number three, you're standing out even more because it looks like an order confirmation email. Right. And in the age of AI, to be successful at cold email, you're going to have to be more creative than ever. So I can't think of an industry where this wouldn't work.

How quickly do you get shut down by Shopify tbd? Because I mean, Chris Kerner, who's been shut down by more service providers, and he can count, surely they would like catch on to you pretty quickly and shut you down.

Yeah. So you get a new Shopify account.

I'm sorry, do you just give up on the first roadblock hits you? Huh? Ngmi, bro.

30 day free trial. 30 day free trial to Shopify. They shut you down on day 21. Get a new account, dude.

I mean, you know this. I love piggybacking. I think that's a freaking great piggyback idea.

Oh, yeah. I would love for someone to try this and let us know.

I mean, that's what you've been good at ever since I've known you is by leveraging non traditional marketing funnels. And this would be one of those channels. I think that's a freaking amazing idea.

Amen, brother. All right, what you got?

All right, so you and I have talked about starting AI agencies in the past. And I just talked to somebody today that kind of blew my mind. You've heard of a directory, right? Okay.

I have a dress idea for you too, by the way.

Oh, okay. So for those who are listening, directories are basically like Yelp meets Craigslist. It's not a super sexy website, but it has all the information that you need. And it's super hot right now in our space because you can use AI to build directories easier than you ever have been able to in the past. And now lots of people are building directories. Well, I talked to this guy today on my podcast, Nickonomics. He has a healthcare company and what he's done is he's built a directory. It's actually an ABA directory, Chris. Applied Behavioral Analysis.

Autism Clinics.

Autism clinics. And what he's doing with that is he's using that as a lead generation source for the clinics, not for patients. I mean, although it will function as that. So what he's doing is he's created a directory with all of the ABA clinics around the country. Then what he's going to do is reach out to them via cold email.

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And with that cold email, he's going to introduce himself and say, hey, you're on my directory. Check it out. If you want to rank higher, you know, let me know. But basically get them to buy in to his directory and see that this is another place where they can get patients from. Because he's currently getting 90% of his leads from a directory like he's on the receiving end of somewhere else. And he is, he has his own digital marketing agency where after he builds the directory and he does the cold email outreach and people come on, he's then going to pitch them his digital agency services. Well, hey, since you're here now, I could also do pay per click for you. I could also do SEO for you. I could also do, you know, a bunch of other things. I thought it was One of the most creative lead generation ideas that I've heard in a long time where you're, yes, you're building a directory, but you're not just monetizing based on the traffic that comes to the directory or by selling leads to the end user, you're building the directory to bring the end user to you so that you can get a foot in the door and then sell them other services. So why wouldn't this work for somebody who's like, you know what, I'm a digital agency that specializes in tree trimming businesses or I'm a digital agency that specializes in bitcoin miners. Great. You create your own directory and you use that as lead generation, not just for selling leads to the end user, but to the businesses themselves. That's your lead generation for them to come in and then start using your services. What do you think?

I love it because if I had to choose between a directory of end consumers that got 10,000 hits a month versus a directory of business owners that got 1,000 hits per month, I'd much rather have the latter. Because most directories monetize by just banner ads, which is like the lowest form of monetization. You don't need to do any work. It could be somewhat passive, but it's so you just don't get much from it. You really need a ton of traffic and you play with directories, you need volume. It's kind of like subway. You want to make money in subway, you got to own 50 subways. Because if you own one, you're going to make like 20 grand a year. Right. You want to make money in directories. Probably got to own like 10 directories and you know it's going to be 80, 20. Most of them won't do much. Two or three of them will do really well. Right. It's a vertically integrated directory to a high ticket monthly recurring offer. Right.

Totally.

To the right audience that can afford it.

It's going to take a minute to get spun up and to gain traction and all that stuff. But I think those customers are going to be really high intent. They're going to be really sticky customers and it's just going to be after you. It's almost like programmatic SEO. After you build it out, it's just going to be generating leads for you forever.

Yeah. What are some other ideas? We could launch this in like a B2B not. Yeah, a B2B directory.

So thank you for asking that because I should have said that I would look at high ticket services or businesses that have, like, high ltv. I like the healthcare space because, like, they're not typically targeted by these types of ideas. So I think you could go to any other vertical within the healthcare space. I think home services are kind of overly saturated. So where I would look like today, 2025, I would look at the other small businesses, like hometown businesses, restaurants, CPAs, lawyers, businesses that are high ticket, high trust, and aren't yet overly saturated by a bunch of people like you and I who are like, oh, home services. Anybody can start a home services businesses. Well, it's like, not anybody can start a CPA business. Not anybody can start a law business. Not anybody wants to start a restaurant. So that's kind of where I would go, is just start building out these directories without necessarily knowing the monetization play for it, and then either finding a digital agency that I can partner with or just selling it at some point. That's where I would go.

Yeah, I love it. I mean, we have our directory, Animal Aftercare, but it's like, I wish we were getting leads from cremation clinics and veterinarians, but we're not. We're getting leads from poor Nancy that just had her dog die. Yeah. So that's a good one.

Thank you.

All right, I want you to pull up the flowerletters dot com.

The flower letters.

Yep. I am so hyped on this idea.

Okay.

And someone needs to copy this. Can I tell you what this business is?

Can I share my screen so people can see it?

I can. Sure. Nick. What do women love more than romance novels? I'll answer that.

Money.

World War II history. Okay. Fictional World War. I swear, every time I see my wife reading a book, it's about some terrible thing that happened during World War II. I don't know what it is. Okay. Like flies, honey. Okay. This business, this website, the flowerletters.com, they send two letters, like, handwritten in quotations, not actually, but appearing handwritten, two letters per month to people paying $10 per month that tell a story. They're like reading love letters between two people during World War II. And it has, like, stickers. It has, like, some artwork in there. It's really well done, really tastefully done. $10 a month. Two letters per month. They have, like, six different themes or genres or storylines that you can follow. The churn is very low because it's like a book. They're like, getting a book by letters. You don't want to cancel on month 3 because you don't know how it ends in month 12 and I know all the details of this business because I found a random blog article on USPS's blog, of all things because they're a massive customer of usps. What are your immediate thoughts before I go further?

My immediate thoughts, honestly, I love the idea. These guys are Mormons and I went to the website to go look at it and of course the Clarks live in Utah, USA and have been married.

Our friend PG Brother.

I love it. I think that this is going to the like. If you're looking at a spectrum of things right now, instant gratification is what everybody goes, for instance, instant and this is zigging while others are zagging. It's not instant gratification, it's a trickle of letters that are coming in. And I think that's a really smart play. They're like, okay, you want everything right now. We're not going to do that. We're going to go back and play into this niche. So I think that's a really interesting framework is like looking at what is popular right now and going the total opposite direction. And so anyways, yeah, I love that.

All right, so this is what their volume is like. This was a year ago. A year ago they had 31,000 active subscribers.

What?

Okay, $10 a month. 30,000. Yeah, we're talking 310 grand a month. This was a year ago. And they're, they've, they're only four years old. I would bet they're closer to 400 or 500 grand a month at this point.

What?

They're not doing paid ads. It's just word of mouth. It's just a good product.

Okay, $310,000 a month. And it's two letters a month.

Two letters a month. And the cost of a stamp at bulk is like less than 50 cents cost the paper printing, like for sure it's under $2 all in. Like for your.

Okay, so cogs, let's just say it's $2 all in. That's 60 grand a month of cogs. So their, their gross margins, $250,000 a month.

Yeah, 80%, give or take. 24 employees.

Well, dude, you know this like in a lot of these businesses, you look at the cost of goods sold and their net, their gross margin, you're like, oh, they're freaking crushing it. And then you look at below the line and you're like, oh, that's why their gross margins are so good is because they spend so much money on customer acquisition. They're on meta, they're on Google, they're doing pay per click, they're doing SEO, whatever. They're doing cold outreach. And so their net margins are, are nowhere near as good because they've got to pay so much money to acquire customers. But you just said they're not spending any money on marketing.

That's what they said in this interview. I didn't see them on the Meta ads library. So let's just say, let's just say back of the napkin, 5 million a year, top line, $4 million a year. After their cogs come out, they still have 24 employees. Surely there are other costs, right? 24 employees. Call it, I don't know. Some of them are part time, some of them are full time. Let's say 75 grand a year. So, bro, like, I feel bad for them.

Like, I almost, I almost don't want to release this podcast episode because they're gonna get freaking destroyed. What would stop somebody from coming in here? Investing. Even if you invested like a hundred thousand dollars in paid ads, how many customers would you get? You could easily target people on Facebook in particular. You go to Meta, you find people who are going to fit this profile, and then you, you just said the churn is exceptionally low. You lock them in. I'll get that 50 grand back in what, a year? Less than a year. And I'm like, and I'm already cash flow positive in the first few months. If they're not doing any paid ads, like, look at their website. It's not like they don't look overly sophisticated. I think somebody could come in here and just blow this business out of the water just by spending on paid ads.

But I don't think this would like hurt them. I think that would grow the pie, you know, I think this is like a way of delivering this type of content that is innovative, new and unique, even though it's ironically using a very old fashioned way of communicating. I think that if someone were to come in and even if they didn't do paid ads, even though they just did a different genre, same style, same level of quality, post apocalyptic space opera, interstellar romance, Renaissance Italy. Like take, like just go to Amazon and take all the top categories for women, sort, and then just pick one or five or ten, right? And take the same approach.

This is a really cool business. This is a really cool business. This is one of those businesses where they probably looked at each other a year in and were like, is this real? Like, is the, is the other shoe going to drop at some point? You know, like, you know what I mean? Like hey, we just made a half a million dollars selling letters to people.

I think there's a good chance their net profit is over 2 million a year, because at 24 employees, 75 grand each, that's 1.8 million a year. Like, they could be doing 2 million.

I can't get to a scenario where they're not doing less than that. They're. Dude, they're using the thing. We've talked about this, like, one of the largest subsidies, marketing subsidies that nobody talks about is the United States Postal Service. The true cost of sending these letters is much more than you're paying for a stamp. And that's their main cost. Like, that's their distribution channel. So you're effectively piggybacking off of the USPS and the American taxpayer to get your cogs so low that you're like, your net margins are $2 million a year. That's insane, dude.

And I looked at similar web of what their traffic is. They're getting 60,000 unique visitors per month. If you take a 3% conversion rate, that's 1800 per month times 10. 18,000 of MRR added every month at a 3% conversion rate.

Oh, my gosh.

4 years old in business.

So they're just relying on word of mouth and SEO. How long do you think it took them to get to this spot? Like, how long do you think it took them to get to 31,000? Because they started in 2020. We're in the middle of 2025. Was it like, oh, 31 divide by five, 6,000 a year for the first five years, or.

Well, it says they launched August 2020. Great timing. Okay. Perfect timing. Says at first there were 38 subscribers who followed the romance of one couple. So they just had, like, one storyline to start through. Letters and postcards against the backdrop of historical events. Today, they have 31,000 subscribers. Since 2020, more than 1.8 million letters have been mailed. They run the business by themselves, or they used to from their home, and now they ship it from a warehouse in Orem. And they have four other series, like, four other storylines you can follow. And they say many of their customers subscribe to multiple at the same time. So we're talking 20, 30, 40, $50 a month from some customers instead of 10. Quick question. What if there were a private community out there of people that were building businesses based on this podcast? Well, I just made it, and it's only for business starters. And business builders. It's called TK Owners. And it's basically like having me and A hundred other business geniuses as your business partner, but you give them 0% equity. Also, there's going to be exclusive new trends, growth hacks, business ideas, and a database of everything I've ever talked about. You'll find thousands of startup case studies. You'll have weekly ask me anythings with me while I'll answer your questions directly. You'll be in my Slack channel where I'm hanging out every week and helping members one on one. We've got exclusive guest speakers, including some names that you'll recognize. And if you're building something cool, I'll introduce you to anyone you need. TK Owners is the fastest way to plug into a smart, easy, ambitious group of builders and accountability partners that are sharing wins without the fluff. And it's 99 bucks a month about the cost of an energy drink per day. You can join now@tkowners.com link in the show notes.

Dude, I have an amazing business idea to launch off of this.

Let's go.

Amazing. When I was a kid, my grandfather was really into chess. He was. He wasn't a grandmaster, but he was. I don't even remember what the rating system is, but he was. He was highly rated. He played chess all the time. He loved it. He taught me how to play chess. I'm not very good at it, but he taught me how to play chess. And every time I would go over to his house, there'd be a chessboard on his table that was like in the middle of a game. I don't remember the first time he told it to me, but I must have at some point been like, grandpa, why is that sitting there? And he explained to me that he had a pen pal that he would write letters to, and they were in the middle of a chess game. And the chess game would last probably months because they would send a letter and tell him, oh, I moved my knight from F2 to L7 or, you know, whatever the metric is.

Right? Dude, so good. Oh, yeah, yeah.

That's how he would play. And he had like a couple of friends that he was corresponding with. Why couldn't you bring that back with like a technology, I don't know, bent to it?

Why technology?

No, no, no, no. What I'm saying is the technology bent to me would be on the marketing side. It wouldn't necessarily be the way that they're experiencing the game together because, like, how do you acquire customers would be my.

I don't even know how.

I don't know how he did it. The last time I'M pretty sure he did it through, like, there's probably some international chess federation. And so, like, they have local chapters, and that's how we met people. But that would be the only technology component to it is like, okay, how do you acquire customers and match people up?

But I'll tell you how you find customers.

Oh, okay.

Hello. Dude, you buy banner ads on Chess.com and on the Chess.com app. These guys have, like, 26 million hits a month. It is the website. They have, like, 85% market share for playing chess. Did you just buy band.

Wait, did you just look that up as we were talking? Or did you know that?

Yeah, no, I was like, I knew that.

Okay. Rain Man.

Sorry. I take that back. They had 35 million visitors per month in June of 2020. In December 2022, they had 100 million users per month. 3x growth between 2020 and 2022.

Wow. Holy crap. That's an interesting framework going the opposite way from digital to analog and writing trends that are growing exponentially. Not even exponentially, but just, like, growing way faster than they should. So if chess is taking off, is there a way to take it from the digital to the analog? And the answer to that would be, yes. Do something like this, right? Like, hey, we'll assign you to a pen pal. Now, I could bastardize it and be like, oh, we'll just do it with AI and the AI will make the move, and we'll send the letter. Like, yeah, you could do that. But really what you'd want to do is actually pair them with somebody who they're playing against.

Yeah, yeah. At their skill level. Right, Right.

At their skill level.

Yeah.

So there's a little bit of a marketplace component to it that would make it a little bit difficult, but I think you could solve that through, like, Facebook groups, dude. Like what you did with Texas snacks, right? You went and bought a Buc EE's Facebook group. You could go and probably buy some chess groups, roll them up, merge them together. All of a sudden, you got 10,000 members. You get a master list of everybody and their ratings. They pay five bucks a month, and then you're the one that sends the correspondence between everybody, right? Like, you. You don't even ask them to send the correspondence. You're like, hey, just make the move. You can. You can submit it here digitally, and then we will actually send the letter. You don't have to worry about going and getting the stamp and writing it or any of those things.

Yeah, interesting. I would want to test that, because I Feel like there is something magical about putting a letter in the mailbox. There's especially something magical about walking out to the mailbox and getting a letter. Right. Which in your scenario they would still experience that there is a lot of friction to, you know, right. And but maybe you order, you get a kit or something and it's like A kit.

That's exactly what I was gonna say.

Like post like pre stamped envelopes. It has the name and address on there and literally all you do is they have even have like kind of like, you know, some board games come with like a card of like things that you fill out to keep track of the score. You would have like a chess, a paper chessboard and they like draw arrows of their moves and they just mail it and it's like, it's. I feel like people are going to hear this and they're either going to think it's the stupidest idea they, they've ever heard and I respect that, but I hate them. Or, or the most genius idea that they've ever heard because it's just complete the opposite direction.

I think there's a lot of kids growing up who've never experienced getting a letter in the mail. They've gotten text messages, they've gotten emails, they've gotten FaceTimes, they've got like. But like dude, there is something magical about a letter in the mail. They've probably gotten a lot of Amazon packages in the mail, but like a letter in the mail that's addressed to them. So yeah, chess is one thing, but like bringing back pen pals somehow with kids. I think that would be a really interesting thing.

Dude, what about like the flower letters but for kids? Like a kids book sent to kids. And you could do one of two ideas. You could do it one way like flower letters is one day you're reading stories about other people. Awesome. It could be a two way conversation where the the kid receives a letter with a pre stamped prepaid envelope and like a blank page and they could write back and like customize what happens in the story. Like a choose your own adventure kids book.

Oh, that's such a good idea. Do you remember when we were kids grew up LDs? The friend. Do you remember the friend?

Of course.

Okay, so like we had this magazine in the church. It was the friend, it was for kids and there was a section in the friend that you always turn to. Do you remember?

Nope.

It was the stories at the end that the kids told so kids could write in. And then every, every month with the friend issue There would be like a story from a kid. It was like, this is Eduardo in Ecuador or this is Hans in Germany. And they would like, yo.

Yeah, yeah, that was the best part. They do the same thing in the Liahona. Like just personal stories from people.

Yeah, but like, I don't get the Leah honeymoon. Or at least I don't. I don't read through it with my kids anymore. Just because we have like. We could go to your bad dad some. Follow me. Yeah, I'm a bad dad. I don't believe in that stuff anymore. No, but we could. We can go to like living day scriptures or thumb follow Me or like the YouTube channels and we can watch that stuff. But like, something with like that component of kids sharing stories and having a way to connect with other kids. I think that would be so cool to see. Like, they took the time to write it. They have like a message that they're sending between one another that. That would be a really interesting. Even though, like, it could be the letters that they're. My son loves to read and he's just giving the letters in a series. Oh, dude, that would be so cool. You could just take a book, license the book. This might be more expensive. You take the book, you license the book, and then you just send them chapters, you know, one month at a time. And it's like, oh, they finished early. Well, they gotta wait for the next chapter. Yeah, that could be really cool.

I like the idea of making an interactive kid's story through letters using AI on the back end. But, like, the delivery is very old school. And so a kid gets a letter. Like a kid gets a letter with a story about a boy and his dog, right? And then the boy has some prompts, right, where he can change the outcome of the story. And he's given ideas of how to change it, right? But it's really up to him. The letter gets sent back, it gets put into a machine, it gets opened automatically, scanned automatically, uploaded to ChatGPT automatically. ChatGPT knows the assignment, writes back based on where the boy or the girl is taking the story. And then, you know, it uses a handwritten font. It makes it look personalized, it spits out a response, it nails it back to him. So the kid literally feels like someone is helping him write this story, but it's really AI, but it doesn't feel like AI. And then at the end of it, you get the frigging thing printed into a book.

Dude.

That's the upsell at the end. Dude.

Okay, I have you one Better. So remember last year we were talking about capturing stories in assisted living facilities. We've created an app and we are going to roll it out. It's called One Life Tale. One of the components to it, though, my brother in law created was if you as a family member want to gift somebody something. So let's say, hey, you know what, Carson. And Carson's probably too old for this at this point, but Carson's nine or 10. He's learning to read. I want to get Carson a gift for his birthday. I can go and enter information about Carson into this app and it will generate a story for Carson and then I can go to Barnes and Nobles and I can get it printed out and it will have like pictures and it will be a story and Carson is the, is the protagonist and he's reading about himself and I send it to him and it's like, oh, that's a really cool, thoughtful gift. In the same way you're saying the kid is helping write the story. It's like, yeah, I want to, I want to make sure I'm connected with my niece or my nephew or my cousins or whoever. Every month it sends me a prompt and it's like, when was the first time you met Carson? What's your favorite thing about Carson? What does he like to do? What have you and Carson like to do? And then it's sending them this like, story that AI generated, obviously, but within the story, Carson's reading like, wait, how did it know that I love Skittles? How did it know that Nick and I actually went to the Rangers baseball game? You know what I mean? It's like weaving them into the story. I think that would be a really cool way to then bring families to get who are distant, to feel like, oh, yeah, we're close. I created that story with Carson.

Oh, that's good.

That's a really cool idea.

Oh, that's so good. Because, you know, it's so easy to think, well, AI can just do everything. AI is just going to do everything because it knows everything. Because it's all on the Internet, right? Most of everything is not on the Internet, believe it or not. Like the Internet doesn't know that the Bear Lake boat rentals place has more pontoon boat rentals than ski boat rentals. Like, the owner knows, the employee knows, but that's not on the Internet. That's not scraped by chat, gbt. So there's so much more institutional knowledge and one on one experiences that, that have never been recorded and will never been recorded, but that's like, the most valuable stuff. Like, I use this limitless pendant. I could not. Like, I would love to prompt it and say, write. Write an autobiography based on everything that's happened since the day I put this pendant on. And it could, but it would be very. It would be like reading a research report. It would be very vanilla because it doesn't know, like, what's in my heart, what's in my mind. It doesn't know my insecurities. Like, it only knows things that I vocalize, which is kind of like, hey, babe, what's for dinner tonight? You know, like, that's not very tight. Or, like, talking about business ideas. Like, that's not the most important stuff. So what you're describing is merging those two worlds, right? Like, AI doesn't know that Carson and his cousin's first interaction was over, you know, throwing Skittles into the pond. AI doesn't know that. But this. That book could know that because of the. The human element that you're adding to the story, right?

Yeah. It's pulling out the. Those pieces from you and your experience by asking you the right questions so that it can then create a story that allows you to be connected. I'm with you. Like, I think at first, like, we went through the waves of AI and you're like, oh, my gosh, AI is going to replace everything. Oh, this is going to change, and it is going to change the world. But the more and more I'm learning about AI I'm like, you know what? Yes, it's going to change everything, but it's just going to. It's just going to change our lives. It's not going to eliminate, like, there's not going to be mass.

Yeah.

Layoffs. And we're just not going to be. We're not going to do anything that anymore. We're still going to have things that we need to work on, and AI is not going to be able to pull out the things that we know are intrinsically valuable to us. So to me, that's a cool framework.

I think a lot of people are justified in feeling scared that the human experience is going to turn into, like, a wall e experience just sitting in a bubble and robots and computers do all these things to us. But I don't think that's going to happen for the same reason that when ebooks were invented, physical books didn't go away. Physical books are thriving. They're doing better than ever. You just cannot replace in person, physical touch, feel, all those senses that are activated with an in person experience, you can't fully replace that. It will always be superior. Like an artificially generated experience or story or novel or whatever. Right. So video is cool. But you know what's better? Long form audio via podcast and my newsletter tkopod.com go there to subscribe for free to my newsletter. It's one email a week, very tactical. And then go to my audio podcast, three episodes a week. Stuff like this, you're going to love it. All free. No sleazy sales pitch. Tkopod.com I had a conversation with my.

Brother in law this week. He's in the film industry, he's an editor, he's super creative. And I'm like, oh, are you using AI? And he's like, absolutely not. Like he just, he hates AI. And the more we talked about it, it was, well, you know, I totally see it from his perspective. It's like that's eliminating jobs in the entertainment space the nicest way possible. From like a scarcity mindset. It's like, oh, AI is coming for me and I'm going to get eliminated. I was like, I was trying to help him see and understand. Like, well, here's the thing, like all the research that you do in order to write a script when you're planning the shoot and you need to know the location and the weather that's coming up and which shop might work like you're effectively just hiring an analyst. Why wouldn't you use it to do that? And now it's going to be so much cheaper to produce content and good content because good content is going to stand out more than bad content. You don't need a whole production company behind you. You don't need a whole studio behind you. You can go and create a show that used to cost $10 million for $10,000. It's going to take a while, I think for him to kind of get there. But I actually think that's what's going to happen with AI is there's going to be an unlock of the large institutions aren't necessarily going to have the monopoly on things that they used to. Individuals now are going to have the power and ability to create things that they otherwise hadn't been able to up until this point. It's going to give them a lot more freedom. So to your point, it's like, yeah, we're not going to have the Wally experience because we don't want the Wally experience.

No, we don't. And some people think they do, but. But they don't.

No, they don't. I Sold my companies. You've sold businesses. And like for the first week it's like, oh cool, I don't have to work. And then you're like, I gotta do something, I gotta, you know, I gotta go figure something out. Like you. That's just the way we're wired. We like to work.

The pie just grows. Right? It's like the same principle. I was listening to this other podcast. They were talking about Shopify. One of the big VCs passed on investing in Shopify because they crunched their numbers and they looked at the total e commerce market and they thought, man, pie in the sky scenario. If Shopify ever gets 20% of the E commerce market, it's only a billion dollar business and we want $100 billion business. So Path, what they didn't foresee is that the e commerce market would 20x in size and Shopify only has like 3% of it instead of 20%. But they're $100 billion business because the pie grew that much. So I think that's what AI is going to do is grow the pie. I think, you know, 10 years ago it was unfathomable to have a trillion dollar company. Now we have a handful of them. Right. Right now it's unfathomable to have a 10 or $100 trillion company. But as the pie continues to grow, there's going to be a lot more of them. Right? Because we're, we can't think about the future as the present looks today. It's going to look much different with a much bigger pie.

I literally just heard a podcast talking about this. Are you familiar with like Meta's project Orion?

No.

So you've seen the Meta.

Like is that like. I, I think so. Anyway, keep going.

Yeah. You've seen the Meta ray Ban glasses.

Yeah.

Augmented reality, Right. So Orion's basically, it's augmented reality. It was the acquired podcast actually. And they had seen sort of a preview of it and they were like, once I saw that, I knew that is the future. Okay. But they were doing some analysis and they're like the amount of money that Meta has spent and is continuing to spend investing in the Orion project, even if they had the adoption that the iPhone had starting in 2008 through today, they wouldn't be caps full of positive until 2045. So it's like an 18 year investment. Right. And these are glasses that have augmented reality. And not only augmented reality, but you don't need AirPods. They actually feed the audio through the frame of the glasses and you can Listen to things, things pop up on the screen. You can have text conversations. It kind of rethinks the way that we interface with technology. And their point was like, this is going to change the way that we interface with technology. But if Meta's right, which, I mean, Mark's done a freaking phenomenal job of being right, then it's not going to be the iPhone market, it's going to be a totally different category. That's going to be whatever, $2 trillion and they're going to pay back much sooner than that. But it's our inability to understand compound growth and exponential growth that sometimes holds us back from understanding the opportunity that's in front of us.

Yeah, it's not going to be the iPhone market. It's going to be the market of people that have eyes, right? Yeah.

Like.

AI is not disrupting technology, it's disrupting human labor, which is the biggest market in the world. Every job that everyone does, it's going to take a slice of that. So you just have to think about it differently.

It's built different.

All right, we'll call this the vibe code idea of the week. Someone should use repl.it or whatever to go vibe code one or both of these ideas. I have two of them. I can't just do one. You ready?

I'm ready, dude.

Yes. You've got thenot.com, you've got zola.com, massive wedding marketplaces, right. If I own a wedding venue or if I'm a wedding photographer, I gotta list my services there. Agreed, Agreed. I think someone needs to vibe code a marketplace or a directory for random off the wall niche wedding services, for instance. And I posted content about a lot of these. There is a donkey in Arizona that they call the Beer burrow, right? And people having a wedding, they rent out this donkey for $700 for a day. They put beers on the donkey's back because donkeys are meant to hold hundreds of pounds. And the donkey just walks around the wedding and people grab beers off its back and it's a gimmick, but it's extremely profitable because it's extremely instagrammable and it goes viral all the time. Okay. Or you've got charcuterie carts, right? Or you've got like those 360 degree photo booths, or you've got like a vintage camper photo booth, or like fake tattoo bars, or like they have authentic Italian pizza trucks that only cater to weddings. All these random one off things that people increasingly want more and more because they Want their wedding to be unique and Instagrammable. They don't want it to be like all their friends weddings. It needs to be different. Needs to have a beer borough. I think there needs to be a zola or the knot.com for all of these random things. That is just the go to for like the long tail wedding niches and services. What do you think?

Okay, so what are you building? You're building the website or you're building the like backend platform that is facilitating the transactions between them? Because the Knot.com, you're, you're going through the knot, right? Like they're not just, you're not going there and saying like, oh, Joe Bob Smith does XYZ for weddings. I'm gonna go contact Joe Bob Smith. You know what I mean?

So I feel like it would start as a directory and it would morph into a marketplace, right? We all know marketplaces are hard, so we're gonna start it as a directory. We're just gonna scrape very simply, we're gonna scrape all of these random one off services. We're gonna use replit to put it in a database and display it in an attractive way. And then you can sort of, you can filter and anyone that's about to get married can go to this website and look at all these cool. And it's free marketing. You're sending free leads to these people, right? And then over time, as you build traction and as you build a name for yourself, then you reach out to the people that are getting leads and you're like, hey, you're getting leads from my website. I'm going to charge you now or I'm going to take you off the website. That's the business.

Wow, that's really cool. This is how I think you would do it. You would start in a market. Let's say you're in Dallas. You do things that don't scale. So you find Your list of 50 people or companies that are off the wall. Would you call it the Beer Borough?

Beer Burrow? You got a puppy corner. You got a white wedding Bounce castle.

Dude, that's amazing. Okay, so that you're like, you're in Dallas and you individually reach out to these people and you're like, this is what I'm doing. Can I put you on my directory? And they would say yes. So you test it first and just see how you would set up this directory. Because in order for it to get traction, like you've got to get, you've got to build SEO to it. Like you can't just throw it up and have it necessarily work. But going back to the directories, ideas that we had before, you're using it as a lead funnel for these businesses to use you for essentially marketing services. Once you build in Dallas, then you would. I would go to other markets to actually test it, but I would start small. I would go in one market, do something that doesn't scale, see how it works, and then scale it.

Yeah, I like starting in one local market. I don't think you need to ask permission, though. You just throw them up on the website with their contact info and everything. It's permissionless. And then you could even use paid ads. You'd have to come out of pocket, but you could use paid ads to women that are about to get married to push traffic to it. Like, you're doing free marketing for all of these people that you're listing, but then you're coming back and charging for them. Premium placement, banner ads, whatever.

I guess I was saying, like, do it, but I would still reach out to them to do that. What you're saying is like, hey, I already got you here. Are you willing to spend. Yeah, give me a hundred dollars this month so I can run.

Yeah, it's. Hey, I listed you. You're welcome.

Yep, yep, I listed you. This is the idea. I'm not just a, like, random person who's like, I have this idea that I'm going to execute. Like, no, you show them you're a serious person. And then you go to them and you're like, if you pay me $250 this month, I'm going to go run paid ads and we're going to see kind of what comes from this.

I love this idea because a year ago, it wasn't approachable to 98% of people listening to this because this is a pretty heavy website. There's kind of a lot going on here. But I know for a fact, because I've built other directory websites that you could build this with AI, you could vibe code it with natural language. The next Vibe code idea I have is I really like the idea of white labeling. A vibe coding service like Lovable or Replit, I think Lovable is starting to offer white labeling. And so here's the idea, here's the whole idea. A vibe coding app that's just white labeled Lovable, Replit, whatever. Because we don't know how to build a vibe coding app that's way above our heads, but it's for a certain niche. Right. So call it Lovable. For video game designing. And it does everything that all these apps can already do. It's not special. It's just a wrapper instead of a chatgpt wrapper. It's a vibe coding wrapper. And I want to make a video game. Kids want to make them, adults want to make them. It could be simple like Pac Man. It could be more complex. But how cool would it be to play a game that you built?

Dude, I was just talking to my brother in law about this this week. Like they love fantasy novels and they've always been like, I want to write a fantasy book. And in order to do that you had to get like concept art and you had to write the thing. And. And now with like mid journey and chat cpc, you could write your own fantasy novel and have it actually turn out the way that you're hoping that it would turn out. I would add one thing to it. I think there's like a freemium or just like a really cheap model, which is what you just said. Like, I'll help you vibe code it through a wrapper. Cool. And I don't know exactly how you'd build it, but there's probably like specific things you need to have in the game. And so you'd build that into the prompt and the wrapper would make sure that it's like, oh, have you thought about your security architecture? Or oh, you didn't actually talk about all the attributes of your character. Make sure you do X, Y and Z. Right. So there's a way to build that out. But then I would have an upsell because it's really easy to build the first 80% or 90%. It's that last 10 or 20% that you can vibe code to. And it's like, well, I don't, I don't know how to have this integrate with Supabase. I don't, I don't know exactly how to create a stripe payment that integrates with this. And so that upcharge would then hook you up with somebody who is a technical person, they're an engineer and they can get you the last 10 to 20%.

Yeah, that makes sense.

That's a great idea.

I love it. That's all she wrote.

Remember we were talking about the game that I play with my kids that I created? I had somebody email me and was like, hey, I spent a couple hours on this. Loved what you guys were talking about. I created the game. So he like, he went on lovable, or was it replit one of those two and just vibe coded it he vibe coded it and sent it to me as, like, thank you. He's. And he's been playing with his kids and. Frequently. Yeah, it's freaking cool.

Have you. Have you used it yet?

Yeah, it's not exactly the way that I played the game. Like, the trivia categories are a lot broader. I was just doing geography and Minecraft, but the categories, you guys, are, like, really broad. But, yeah, I've used it and it, like, it works.

It's cool.

I think it's really cool.

That's awesome. All right, what'd you think? Please share it with a friend and we'll see you next time on the Kerner Office.