7 Principles of Entrepreneurial Success with John St. Pierre

Maybe I wouldn't have allowed the business.

To progress to that level.

So moving out of the way to your point, it is an ego thing. But if you build your team appropriately and give them the right incentives and create a culture of entrepreneurship, then raise yourself to a level more strategically to work on your business.

Welcome to the Next Level Income show, where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host, Chris Larsen. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website, nextlevelincome.com. that's www.nextlevelincome.com.

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On today's show, we have John St Pierre. John is an entrepreneurial executive with 25.

Years of business leadership experience, co founding and growing two companies to over $50 million in revenues each. John is the majority owner and chairperson of Rhombus Group, a private holding company formed in 2020 comprising, comprised of several small businesses. His mission is to help entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs and their companies achieve their goals and dreams. And today, he's going to share some of his tips, the seven principles from his new book, the $100 million journey, your guide to growing the business of your dreams without going off the cliff. John, welcome to the show. Great to see you again.

Excited to be here, Chris?

Yeah, I'm excited to have you. We've, we've really been tackling the topic of, of businesses, you know, businesses from the aspect of, of owning them and running them, businesses from the aspect of potentially purchasing them as investments.

Yeah.

One of the statistics that has come up here multiple times over the last several episodes is that this silver tsunami of baby boomers in the United States, 10,000 retiring every day, it's been happening. It's going to continue to happen. About 10% of those people retiring own businesses. You're one of those business owners. You've had quite an interesting and successful journey. We're also going to share your new book with the audience here and how they can get a copy here as it launches here in the next few weeks. But before we do, John, I'd love to share a little bit about your journey and background story with the audience first.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that, Chris. And you're right, there's a lot of activity going on for entrepreneurs and people who really want to own business assets. And that's a real key that we should talk about a little bit later. My journey has been really entrepreneurial since being very young. In college, I was a Canadian student in the US and for a summer job, I had two choices. I could go intern at an accounting firm, which is the degree that I was going for, or I could go back to Canada and get a summer job. And I did that one year and went home and planted trees in Northern Ontario. And that was not my idea of a great summer job. So second year I got a little more creative and I found that in the US you could actually own a limited liability company, even if you're Canadian, as long as you're not a W2 employee. And because I didn't have a work visa visa, I could be here and run my own company. Exactly. And I found a poster on my dorm wall which was run a painting business with College Pro painters.

Yeah, I know. That's nice.

Okay, yeah, let me try that. I don't know anything about painting. I'm not that good at it. But I want to run a business.

So it's like Miyagi man, you know, up there.

Exactly. So ran a painting company for two years while I was in college and learned the ups and downs of sales and marketing and estimating and hiring employees and training them and losing them and hearing them and dealing with customer complaints and doing all those things. It was a tough job. But. But I love the idea of running my own business and did that four more years post college as a general manager with the franchise company, teaching other college students how to run a painting business. That took me to the dot com world. A few the general managers from College Pro started a company called Handyman Online, which is an online referral Service. Thank you. HomeAdvisor.com or Angie's.com back in 1998, got venture funded, grew that across the country.com crash happened, that's over. And now I'm looking for something new to do. So this is early 2000.

Yeah.

And I started a project management company doing commercial installations, kiosks and fixtures and commercial environments in 2003. And that was my day job. And as a side job, hobby job, I started a little sports company with a couple of friends running sporting events and international tours. That was a lot of fun. So I had two different businesses. One was a hobby and one was my real job. Starting in 2003 and both started to grow. And I ended up post the two recession with two pretty good sized companies. One was $5 million, but the sports company became $10 million business. And I was like, okay, I got two horses here. One I'm a little more passionate about. This was supposed to be the hobby and one that's the project management contracting business that's now half the size of the sports company. And I decided to pick a horse and I picked the sports horse and let me help run this business and grow this business. And we took on some investors. We continue to grow the business. And long story short, there's a lot in between. But in 2018, that sports company is a 55 million global sports company. I was a CEO and president and I got fired from the company that I Co founded 15 years prior. And devastating moment had to lick my wounds. A lot of introspection, a lot of learning. Thankfully, I still had the project management company that was still going along. It was kind of like the tortoise in the hare kind of situation. The tortoise was still kicking and still running. And went back to this and said, okay, I'm not going to do what I did over there, but I still want to grow this business asset. And took principles that I learned from my failure, applied them over here and grew that business from at the time back in 2016 was about a $5 million company to north of $100 million in revenues in 2022. The right way. And there's a lot of keys within that. And now I'm on a mission to share kind of my principles of entrepreneurial success that I learned almost a do this, not that type of format because I learned some hard lessons and I want to make sure that I can help others with them.

You know, it's. You know, I can kind of hear that here and see the pain as you talk about that. But it's interesting. You know, I was just talking. I had a conversation yesterday about how these failures that we face early in life end up being more valuable than the successes in a lot of ways. If we can. If we can push through them right as you did and we're able to do this. Has come up as being a parent with seeing my children, my boys that are 11 and 13 face struggles and say, well, hey, would I rather they face them today? Fail forward, as they say. And also came up my friend Jamie Bateman. We're in a mastermind group together. He recently came out with a book called Adversity to Abundance. From Adversity to Abundance. I was featured in that book with my story and some of the losses I'd faced. And. And as I read through the book, it really amazed me with not only the diversity, you know, from a mutual friend of Jamie and I's being held up at gunpoint and being robbed, you know, in his business, you know, to, you know, like I was saying with. With me, you know, losing. Losing both my parents, a friend and that sort of thing. So if. If we could, you know, John, if we could kind of step back a little bit. I mean, first off, I think getting through the 2008 recession with two businesses intact is. Is phenomenal. And, you know, it's, as you look back and you say, hey, there's 2008. Today we look at Apple and we look at Amazon and we look at Facebook and we look at, you know, you know, Twitter and all these companies, a lot of them were not. Not born out of 2008, but they. They really exploded, you know, out of 2008. Before we talk about, you know, kind of kind of that first, you know, the sports business, what did you learn going through 2008 with those two businesses?

Chris, businesses go in cycles, right? And there's the 2000.com crash. Then there's the 2008. 2012 wasn't a picnic. See, Covid brings another scenario, and there's going to be another one to come at some point. And through every one, I learned something different. There were three keys in 2008. One of my mentors, Charlie Chase, he's today the CEO of California Closets. And, oh, yeah, during 2008 recession, he said, look, there's three keys here, right? Number one, cash is king and queen. And you got to conserve cash. Make sure you're collecting from your customers, make sure you're renegotiating with your vendors, make sure your margins are right. But cash is king and queen, number one. Number two, upgrade your talent. I'm like, well, hold on a second. You just said cash is king, and now you're asking me to go upgrade my talent. That's interesting. He's like, well, well, everybody else is hunkering down. Now's the time to press because there's salespeople, there's some great marketing people, there's some great people out there that are getting laid off because their companies want to hunker down because they're scared. This is how you gain market share. And the last piece of it was, you know, now look at your. Your talent on an ABCD scale. And you got to challenge your C and D players to start playing at a higher or, unfortunately, they need to move on. You got to demand more for your team and look them in the eyes and go, this is the reality of the situation. We need more. So those are the Three key lessons learned and getting through it was tough. We had a customer that went, I mean, we were a small company at this time, went bankrupt and owed us $225,000. The sleepless nights, taking myself and others off payroll, going, sorry, I can't pay you for a few weeks, but stick with me so we can pay everybody else. Keep them here. I didn't think we were going to survive. And when I got to the other side of it, I was like, oh my gosh, now I need to take a breath, you know, let me go focus on the sports company. So on the sports side of things, it was a totally different scenario. People will always invest in their kit and sports, so that didn't really have as big of an impact, you know, so there's different industries, different cyclical events that happen.

Yeah, yeah. So that's, that's interesting. So you know that that sports company, was it focused on youth athletics? Was that what the. So, so that's a, that's a fairly recession resistant industry. That's, that's interesting to think about. But yeah, I was, I was, you know, I was, was contemplating this. Yet not too long ago thinking about, hey, what are we gonna do with our kids if there is like a recession? And I'm like, we're gonna keep them on the same Track, you know, 100. Yeah, it is. And people keep watching sports. They keep drinking beer, they keep watching sports. You know, they watch Netflix. So that, that makes, that makes a lot of sense for, for people that might be listening, contemplating some of those industries that are out there. Um, all right, so then, then you were fired from that company.

Yep.

That. How does, I gotta ask, how does that work? You founded the company, the board got together and said, hey, this isn't like we need, you know, we need somebody with a different mindset. Like, what was the, what precipitated that, John?

Yeah, well, let's, let's go to the root of it. Right. One of the biggest principles I've learned is, is protect and grow your equity. Protecting and I think a lot of entrepreneurs, and if you talk to any seasoned entrepreneur that's grown a company over time to be pretty sizable. Yeah, They've all learned a pretty valuable lesson around equity. Equity is what maintains control of a business. Right. Your decision making abilities. But it also is the source of wealth within a business. And way too many entrepreneurs, especially you see a lot of startup entrepreneurs who believe I got to raise some capital for my business. Well, by raising capital, you're diluting your equity. And so as we wanted to grow our company, I had this vision of building this company to be massive. I wasn't really thinking about the impacts to my own equity. So as the company was growing, my equity was diluting and less and less control. And the nail in the coffin is we raised a venture, excuse me, a private equity round of capital. And the private equity firm came in and brought the capital and gained control of a lot of the board. And then it became, well, we don't think he's the person to take us to that level. And there's a whole bunch of other things in there that I could have done better. And next thing you know, I'm out and I'm looking at what just happened. You know, this was my heart, my soul, my friends are in the business. I put everything into this and left with nothing, you know, and so that was a gut wrenching moment to be okay, what did I just learn from this? That was pretty powerful. But there's a lot of things in between that. Right. We were reinvesting too fast. You know, from a finance perspective, we were trying to grow for growth's sake. We didn't know how fast we could afford to grow. There's something that I now know as, you know, sfg rate your self, double growth rate. How fast can your company afford to grow from a cash. Because growth takes cash. But we're trying to grow way above our skis. So that need, we need some bank debt. By taking more bank debt, at some point we want to, you know, take that bank debt up our balance sheet. Let's get some investors. Investors dilute your equity. Then you lose control and it's kind of spirals down the cliff like that.

Right.

So that's the short version of how something like that happens to entrepreneurs.

Yeah, and those are great principles. You know, we look at, you know, kind of our pillars in real estate are similar. You want cash is king, we want cash flowing pieces of real estate with reasonable leverage. Right. So say 60, 70% in today's environment, maybe less than that with properties, you know, in the 50s, so maybe 50 to 70% so we're not over leveraged, you know, and then keep, keep cash reserves, six plus months of cash reserves in the bank as well. So all those things, you know, help, help, help that. And I think again I want to underscore that because I do. As I look at the real estate cycle, I feel like as we come into the latter half of this decade, we're going to see, we're going to see a downturn of some type. And you know those businesses, you know those property owners that have and have retained those principles, they're going to be able to maintain their properties, they're going to be able to maintain their businesses, and then they're going to be able to acquire talent, as you mentioned, or they may just be able to acquire their competitors outright.

A hundred percent.

Yeah. So, you know, we talked about the seven principles before we started here today, John. Have we touched on any of seven principles before or, or at this point?

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Well, let me go through them and you can help me with that. Let's go for it. Principle one is protect and grow your equity.

One, protect and grow your equity. So check.

Yep. Two is build your own capital.

Okay, so how do you do that?

So, well, first, you know, there's kind of a little bit of a saying. Alan Milt, who's from the runs a company called Cash Flow Story, and he's actually a co author with Verne Harnish Scaling Up.

Oh, yeah, yeah, I know that book.

Well, he said, Look, I interviewed 3,000 CEOs, and there's not one who can tell me what their net operating cash flow is. They all know revenue is. They all know what their profit is, but they can't tell me what their net operating cash flow was last year. So you need to know how much cash your business is generating. And then what feeds into that is how fast your company can afford to grow. So if your company can afford to grow at 5% and you're trying to go 15%, where's that cash coming from? You got to go get external forces, bank leverage or investment capital come in and help you, and then what's your capital strategy? So we, you know, right now what you're seeing, Chris, people want to start their business and like, oh, I need capital to start my company. Well, maybe the best way to start your company is build a product or service you can actually sell, start generating cash, and then that cash and hold 100% of your own equity. You don't need investor capital. But people want to grow too fast. They're chasing that, you know, unicorn type of business. There's fundamental principles. If you build your own capital, you don't need other people to fund your business. Similarly to the real estate example you gave, if you do it right with the right leverage and the right cash flow, there is a downturn. You will survive because you have the right fundamentals. You'll be able to get through without needing help, other people to come help you or bail you out. So that's principle number two is build your own capital.

Wonderful.

Principle number three is reinvest smartly. So the example there is you can build your own capital, but then go gas it on property investments or go gas it on, oh, we're going to now diversify our business into a bunch of business lines we don't know anything about, as opposed to focusing on our core. You can make a lot of big mistakes reinvesting the cash that you're making as opposed to reinvesting the capital and the cash you have to further increase your self financeable growth rate and further increase that operating cash flow. So reinvest smartly.

Yeah, it should be. Sorry to sort of pause there, but yeah. So, you know, and that, I think what, what that means is, you know, from an investor perspective, if you're reinvesting money, you know, those investments should generate the same or greater returns as that original investment. You know, we see stock buybacks, right. For companies that are buying their shares that they feel is undervalued, instead of potentially investing in new, new endeavors because they're inherent, you know, value of the business is higher, for instance. And.

Yep. So exactly.

They're saying we're not gonna, we're not gonna invest in these other areas because it doesn't make sense. So we're just gonna basically increase our equity. Okay, that makes sense.

Is it going to increase your net operating cash flow or not? If it's not, you shouldn't do it.

Yeah.

If you can increase your net operating grow further.

Right.

So that's an important one. Principle four is build a culture of entrepreneurship.

I love this. Yeah, right.

So you need to hire for core values. You need to build a culture within your business that people feel empowered to grow the company as if it was their own, give them responsibilities, sit, lead situationally and help build a team that ultimately can replace you. Which is coming down the line in the principle. But build a culture of entrepreneurship within your company. So that's principle four.

I think that's fantastic. And coming from a sales background, one of the books I read early on, and the name's escaping me now, but it was written by the gentleman that owned the biggest Cadillac dealership in the company, country and company, but it was in Texas, of all places. Right. And what he did was everybody was on commission, so everybody was incentivized by the sales. You know, that meant the person that was washing your car after it came in for a service, they wanted to make sure you were happy, so you would come back and do that. And then it also reminds me of a book that James Altucher wrote called the Rich Employee. And now James. If. If people know his story. James Altucher is an entrepreneur, but he wrote this book called the Rich Employee, and I read it, and it was intriguing to me because as a salesperson, you're kind of. And an entrepreneur, you have almost like your own franchise within a business in a lot of ways, depending on what type of sales role you're in. And I really took. Took a lot of his principles to heart and did that. And it's something that I try to. I try to instill in our business as well as to bring people on and empower them and do that. So I love that. Build a culture of entrepreneurship.

That's.

That's fantastic.

Yeah, Chris, if you take that a step further, right? Like, every single person that works for your business has their own balance sheet, you know, has their own personal family, whether they're an LLC or not. They have a balance sheet. They have revenues, they have debts, they have. How can you help them grow so that they can build their own wealth, livelihood, machine. Right. And empower them to make decisions that will help them grow and build, whether that be with your company or not. It is really, you know, really empowering. We talk about things such as, you know, providing people some equity opportunities to not. Don't give them real equity in the company and make that all messy and, you know. Right. But provide them opportunities to appreciate, you know, grow with the business and participate in the appreciation of the value of the company. It's a really important component. Principle five is protect the house. So how do you ensure that as building this, you're fully protected against any possible scenario that could happen? They'll just send you right back down the other way in your business. Right. So.

So that's. That's different than protect your equity, just to clarify. Right. So this would be protect your house. Like proper legal structures, making sure that you're aware of like what, what can, what can totally derail your business? Stuff like that.

Yes. Yeah. Vulnerability assessments. Are you doing vulnerability assessments on your business? Being careful about, you know, how you're bringing people into the business. You know, proper insurance coverages. You know, there, there are certain things commercial liability insurance plainly does not cover. Do you have the right HR policies and procedures in place to avoid costly litigation of, you know, of what you got going on? So there's a lot of different ways you got to really protect your business. And it's a place where entrepreneurs are very vulnerable because they don't really pay attention to the eyes and T's. They, you know, that's going to be handled, everything will be fine until a big fire happens. And that's, that's a problem. So that's protect the house. Principle six is access your owner's liquidity, which is really how do entrepreneurs access the liquidity that they're building up within your. In their balance sheet in tax efficient manners.

I love this.

Real estate, for example, you got the exchange, right. You can, you can sell a property in 1031, exchange it into another property or refinance.

Yeah.

Or refine it. Other ways to do it that keeps your assets working for you, but minimizes or defer some tax liabilities that you have and continues to build your assets, Continues to employ people. It needs to build what you got going on. There are ways to do that. I think the typical entrepreneur just thinks I got to sell my company in order to make money.

Right.

Because my company is working capital, it needs all these things.

Yeah. What do you do? How do you do that?

I think there's a bunch of different ways. Right. I think the traditional ways are I'm going to take distributions from my company, so I'm going to take cash out of my own balance sheet, which weakens my balance sheet position where I need to sell, I need to sell so I can monetize what I've built. I think there are other to do that. Some strategies that we look at right now is once your company is making really strong taxable income, you got things like 401k safe harbor cash balance plans where as an owner you can put 10 times the amount of the IRS allowable in your 401k. If you basically help all your employees participate. Profit sharing, cash balance program. Right. So you're putting money into your retirement plan that's tax deductible to the business. That helps both the business, the employees, you, everybody else. There's captive insurance programs that also helps protect the House by providing these extraordinary coverages for your business, but also is a deduction to your company and is taxed at lower interest rates and you're building another business asset somewhere else. So there's a lot of different tools like that. I could go on and on, but those are some big ones that. Oh. Another one is form a private holding company so that with your net operating cash you can reinvest in other business assets. Some of them that may have accelerated appreciation, such as real estate that will lower your taxable income. And now you're building another real estate, another business asset. So there's a lot of ways to look at it that are better than sell company. You lose the business asset and you get taxed heavily on your earnings.

Yeah, love, love those. Yeah. Because really what we all want to do is we want to create a career or a business is generating so much cash that we can take that cash in a tax efficient manner and create another investment flywheel that's creating an additional cash machine, right?

Yeah, exactly. And this kind of leads right into principle seven, Right. How do you move from CEO to chairperson? Right. Are you a business operator or do you want to be a business owner? And how can you work on your business when you're always working in your business? So Principle 7 really talks about that. And you know this all too well, but you know, the rich dad, poor dad theory is there's four types of business assets. A business, a business, real estate, stocks and papers.

Right.

Other types of commodities and stuff. Well, no one ever owns one commodity or one stock or one building and creates wealth. But entrepreneurs typically own one business, right? Yeah, that's a little bit off.

Yeah, no, it's that whole, you know, you hear people, they say, oh, diversify and you hear, oh, put all your eggs in one basket and do that. How do you do, like, how do you get around that? I know Dan Sullivan. I was in his program with Strategic Coach. Really helps business owners get through this process. You know, saying, hey, get, get out, get yourself out of the business. And you mentioned earlier, John, make yourself. You maybe didn't phrase it this way, but like, how do you replace yourself? How do you. And it's kind of a weird position to be in. I've been in that position where you hire somebody, you bring somebody in. It's, it's, it's really uncomfortable actually at first.

Yeah.

Ego. It's an ego bust. Right.

You know what, it's all about your perspective. And it also goes back to protect your equity if you own your own business. Your job should be to replace yourself in every single role you've ever had in that business to get yourself out. And what, Yeah, I, what I one things I found I probably wasn't the best person on the business. It was actually an intrapreneur who ends up running my, you know, this company, we just grew to 100 million, was grown by an intrapreneur who we hired 15 years ago as a sales associate, grew within the entire business. And today's its CEO, you know, he was able to take the business to another level that maybe I would have gotten in the way, maybe I wouldn't have, you know, allowed the business to.

Progress to that level.

So, you know, moving out of the way to your point, it is an ego thing. But if you, if you build your team appropriately and give them the right incentives and create a culture of entrepreneurship, then raise yourself to a level more strategically to work on your business.

Yeah, and I love, I love that. That's principle number seven. And you know, seeing this, building a sales team, seeing it in, you know, our own business, it's, I think it's, it's perhaps the most important, you know, now equity that you could say, hey Princip, that's why it's principle number one. But it's so important from a personal perspective. And what I found is, you know, if you're able to, to step back and, and kind of get over that, that ego portion like we talked about, and then bring in other people, you can really unleash not only your power to mentor and help scale, but you also unleash the innate talent and innate drive within those people if you hire the right people. And that's when you really have a true business. Until then, you just have a job with other people working with you, Right?

Yeah, exactly. I can't remember who said it, but yeah, you know, you have a job and you're working for a lunatic.

Right.

Because it's yourself.

I'm going to remember that one.

So, you know, it's better to, if you really want to build a business and you know, there's a lot of programs out there. You know, I've never really been part of the EOS system as an example, but I hear a lot of people talking about EOS will come in, they'll help you build your business. Everything's systemized and process so it doesn't on you. And take it a step further if ever you do want to sell your business. Yeah, you know, if we were to sell my business today, they wouldn't tie Me to a three to four year contract. I don't even work in the business. Right. They don't need me. But if you're an entrepreneur and you're the chef, cook and bottle washer and you're doing everything, try and sell your business on an all cash transaction for a high multiple today and walk out, it's not happening.

No. They keep you on board. Right.

It's not the way that works. Right. So you have to replace yourself and put your business and yourself in a position where your asset is worth the most amount possible. It's going to be worth possible without you working in it.

Yeah, man, I love it, John. And you've, I mean, what a story from painting, from painting houses and growing those teams to, you know, the, the dual success and you know, call them both successes, you know, one leading to a partial failure on the way to know your ultimate success. But I'm super excited for you to share. Share. Share the title of your book Share when it's coming out. Share how the audience can get a hold of this. Learn more about these seven principles. You know, because if you're a business owner, you gotta check this out. You gotta check this out. And look, even if you are an entrepreneur like I was for so many years, you gotta check this out as well. Because I always told my employees, my reps that worked with me, I said, look, think like I do. Put yourself in my shoes. If you can understand what my motivation is and what I want to do, it's going to help you not only make my life easier, but it's actually going to make your life easier. And then you're going to be able to learn how to be an owner as well. So I don't care if you're an employee or you're a business owner. I think, I think you should check out John's book.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that. The book is called the 100 Million Dollar Journey, your guide to growing the business of your dreams without going off the cliff. And as you talked about, covers the seven principles of entrepreneurial success in pretty good detail with actionable items. With a workbook brought in experts to help me develop some of these. Because there's a lot of areas that quite frankly even myself as an entrepreneur, after 20 some years of being an entrepreneur, I knew nothing about and I should have. And so the book is not just a traditional business. There's actual actionable stuff in it that hopefully people can enjoy and work through.

I love that. And we have the link here in the show notes. But if you don't mind telling everybody what's the website where they can access that book, John, and I'm excited to read it. I know we're recording this a little bit before it's officially launched, but where can everyone find that?

Yeah, you can find it at the website is 100m journey.com and certainly on the social handles, you know, at John St. Pierre. 100 you can find me there as well.

Outstanding. John, it's always great talking to you, not just because you're Canadian like my wife, but also because you have so much wonderful knowledge to share here. And yeah, again, check out John's book. We have the link here in the show notes100mjourney.com whether you listen to this before the book is out or not, you can access that website right now. And John, we look forward to hearing about the success of your book and wish you continued success as well, my friend.

Yeah, same to you, Chris. Thanks for having me.

Hey Chris, here again.

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