ERIK CABRAL INTERVIEW – Moving From Flips and the BRRRR Method to Commercial Real Estate Investing

Welcome to the Next Level Income show, where it's our goal to take your income, your investments, and your life to the next level. I'm Chris Larson.

And I'm Caleb Welborn.

Today's show is sponsored by Multifamily Investor Nation Summit. You can find a discount code in the show notes and you can also go to our website to find more. On today's show, we have Eric Cabral of On Air Brands. Eric is the founder of On Air Brands, the real estate investment company Mindado Investment Group, which I want to hear how you came up with that name.

Eric.

He's the host and co host and producer on several shows. He's also the quintessential serial entrepreneur and loves helping others grow their business and brands. After leaving corporate America after more than 20 years, Eric jumped headfirst into real estate investing. He's involved in Multifamily, which we love here, a partner in Renault Winery and Resort, and offers private capital to his network of investors. He also sits on the board of the South Jersey Real Estate Investment Association. Eric loves to share his decades of experience in creative branding and marketing strategies and how it can apply to the creative and real estate investment industries. He holds a BFA from the School of Visual Arts in New York City and currently lives in Robbinsville, New Jersey, with his wife and two daughters. Eric, welcome to the show.

Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Really, really appreciate it.

Absolutely. We're psyched to have you on today.

So as our listeners could probably tell from the intro, you're a man who has a lot going on. Can you share a bit of your story and how you've come to be involved in the wide variety of ventures that you are involved in?

Yeah, I'll try to keep it short and sweet. It's a path that I think is somewhat uncommon, especially for creatives. So I got my start in New York City working for creative agencies. So for anyone who's not familiar with that space, we basically design everything from logos to websites, graphics, you know. And I remember some of my first work was like a little postcard. That was when direct mail was a big thing. I think it still is. And then. And then driving down the highway and seeing some of my stuff on a billboard. So literally from the smallest thing to do, big, big things, this was all before digital. So they actually, like, pasted and glued it on a billboard, you know. But so then I realized after doing that for over 20 years that I hit a ceiling. You know, I started as a junior art director, made my way to creative Director, which was the ultimate goal, the highest that you could possibly go unless you become a partner at a firm. And what I was making was what I was making. It was never really changing much over the past 10 years. And I was like, wow, I think this is as far as I can get. And I was fortunate enough to get laid off for the second time. I say fortunate because in an over 20 year career, to only get laid off twice is really a blessing. So the second time I really started to evaluate my life. Our family was growing, my wife was pregnant with the second. And I said, what can I do to grow wealth? How can I become financially free? I didn't know these terms yet. And I stumbled upon rich dad, poor dad, as we all do. And I took that purple pill. It changed my life, it changed my mindset. And I realized I'm not going back. I'm just gonna leave. I'm gonna retire as a creative and I'm gonna become an investor, right? Because I was already investing in stock, I didn't consider myself a full time investor. Just, you know, I had some, I stumbled upon success there and then we had a, a decent Runway. You know, I looked at our finances and I said, wow, okay, we can survive X amount of time without me working as I build a business. Which became in Mindado Investment Group. And thanks for asking, Chris, where that came from. I thought I was going to flip properties, right? We all think that's sexy and cool. Hgtv And I was like, oh, diamond in the rough. I'll turn something and turn it and turn this piece of junk to something beautiful. So mendato is, I think the word's anagram. I keep forgetting. And you move the letters around, it spells diamond. So, so I created that. And Caleb, to answer your question, as I started to network and join more investors and get around, you know, like minded people to try to figure this all out, they were quickly asking who did your logos, who did your website, who did all of your, you know, your stuff, your social media? We love it. And it was all me at the time, just me creating. And one person asked for help, another person asked for help. Before I knew it, I had half a dozen to a dozen clients at any given time. And I had to start hiring people to help me. And that became On Air Brands eventually. So then On Air Brands started to become a creative service at the time. Now we call ourselves a media agency, but that mostly services real estate investors to help them build their brands and now their podcasts. So that all evolved into a really Cool. You know, fusion and ancillary businesses, all these little things and different things that I was doing, getting smashed into one thing. And now it was also evolved into a separate business called podmax, where we took our podcast business and network and created events. So all these entrepreneurs come in for one day and get an opportunity to record on four or five different top rated shows like Cash Flow Ninja. They get to be on our friend Matt Faircloth's YouTube channel. So all these really cool opportunities for them to market their brand at our events. So that's, that's, that's how it all sort of happened over the past few years.

So it's like one thing leads to the other. You didn't really see the exact path and it all develops. I totally get that. And it sounds like in your past life, then you were Don Draper, except much more positive and optimistic and less.

Drinking and still had a lot of sexy people around. Just for some reason, the creative industry attracts super good looking people and it's very distracting. But once that goes away and you get used to staring at Brad Pitt all day or Angelina Jolie, then you're like, okay, we can get some work done here. But yeah, that is true about the industry. There's a lot of beautiful people walking around.

It's kind of like pharmaceutical sales, which we overlapped in years ago. Eric and Med Device. I'd look around and be like, you got a former football player, you got a model. There was one person, she was on the Bachelor, and I'm like, how did I get here? And, you know, it's like, you know, one of these things is not like the other. Right. It's, it's.

You know, that's funny you say that because that fused actually with, with creative. So a lot of the beautiful salespeople and account people came from the pharma world. So they were pharma reps. Right. And they transitioned right into the creative agency space. So it is kind of funny how that all works out. Yeah.

I work with a company based in San Diego and I go out there and it amazes me. Like, you have all these wonderfully talented but also attractive people, and they're in San Diego, so everybody stays in shape. And how do you find all these people that are basically geniuses that are developing these medical device products, yet at the same time, they're fit, they're tan, they're Running around in 75 degree sunshine all day long. It's pretty magical.

It's funny, I have a bias and I imagine other people as well that when you start to talk to someone that's a little bit. They're above average in terms of look and physique and all this stuff. It's a little distracting when you're talking to a 9 or a 10, you know, and you sort of, as they speak, and you realize, oh, my God, they're actually intelligent. For me, it's always like you just expect them to know a few things. They're not because they didn't need to be smart. Right. They. They went through high school and all that stuff was, you know, doors were opened and, you know, that's why I kind of like, you know, if my kids are good looking, great. But I also want them to be very aware and not leverage that too much.

There you go.

Because, you know, that could be a crutch, right.

Hopefully they get both. Hopefully they get both and they end up like those people were talking about.

And you can leverage both, then. Yeah, sky's the limit.

Absolutely. Well, Eric, we were talking a little bit earlier about your involvement in multifamily. So you were talking about how Mindado was founded as originally as flipping, you know, flipping houses.

Yeah.

Talk about your evolution on the real estate side and, you know, what it's gone through. Like, I started on the single family side, ultimately evolved into the multifamily side over a course of about 15 years. What is your evolution been? What. What did you start on and what is that? What does that transition into as of today? What's your main focus?

Yeah, so like I said, flipping, finding deals, building teams, you know, getting your hands dirty was. Was all part of the process. I was loving it at the time. And then I realized that, you know, I need to. To find more buy and hold something that I know can generate income on a regular. And, you know, through my partnerships and relationships with the people, as I was looking for houses to flip, we were also finding deals that made more sense on a local level. Because as I jumped in, I wanted to get very comfortable with investments that I could drive to. So I found a multi family about 15 minutes away and then got that performing. It was vacant, you know, did some minor repairs, and then once it started to perform, and then I did the whole BRRR method. And can you.

I'm sorry, if you could stop right there. So I know. I know what BRRR stands for, but can you talk about how many Rs are in that and what do they stand for? For people. For people that be familiar.

Absolutely. You know, forgive me if I butcher it, but B. Rrr. I think there's four R's there. So buy and then renovate and then Re, not refi, refinance comes in later. But buy, renovate, rent, refinance, repeat.

Right.

So you could probably say rinse and repeat and throw another R in there.

But I thought it was eight Rs.

Strategy. Yeah, it's a great strategy and I'm sorry if I missed one of the Rs, but yeah, people have been doing it for decades from what I understand. And it wasn't until Brandon Turner from Biggerpockets actually labeled it for us so that we could talk about it quickly and easily. But once that happened, you know, my realization of the, how powerful this tool is and how it generates income. So I have infinite income as a result of doing these things because when I refinanced, I got 20 or $30,000 more than I bought it for. So I pretty much, when they gave me the 70%, I think it was maybe actually 80% LTV. Then I, I was almost able to get 100% of my money back during that refi. And so now all the checks that come in, you know, it's just infinite, the ROI on that. So here's the cool crazy thing about, about my trajectory in real estate is I, I continued to contribute and be a part of the that community and joined South Jersey Real Estate Investors association and eventually got onto the board that has been around for decades that it's part of the national REA and we manage over a thousand members and we hold a meeting, our personal meeting in Princeton, New Jersey. It's the main meeting and we get anywhere between 50 to 100 attendees every month. Obviously now things have changed. We're actually doing one tonight that's going to be online as a result of everything happening. But so as I started to gain more visibility and having the opportunity to speak in front of the room and position myself as a thought leader, I met a wonderful guy named Josh McAllen who was building his business from scratch. So he left his partnership, took capital from that partnership and started to create his own. And he had a deal called Renault Winery in Egg Harbor Township under contract. He was trying to figure out how to raise capital because that was not part of his skill set at the time because he had a high net worth individual that basically funded every single deal that he operated. So when he met me, as I was in front of the room, he approached and said, I'm trying to build a podcast and how can you help me? I love the name of your company on Air Brands makes Total sense. And we started working together and building another show because I had Entrepreneur Circle podcasts at the time and now with him we created Capital Hacking and we had amazing people on there like Robert Kiyosaki, you know, everybody from Biggerpockets that you can imagine. And I've learned a ton just being around and interviewing those folks, which is great. So as I started to get to know him, I jumped into the deal at Renault Winery, which is the third oldest winery in in the country. Abraham Lincoln administration handed us the liquor license.

That's cool.

That's how old it is.

And it's a really cool project by the way. I encourage everybody.

Yeah. So you're familiar with it, right? So there's so many cool stories wrapped around this brand and this project that I fell in love with it. So I became a partner there. So that it's funny because I went from a small multifamily managing that myself and then jumping into a 50 room hotel, golf course, winery. It doesn't sound real, but that's really my trajectory. And at this point I'm very passive in terms of my real estate investing. I do lend to my community in terms of short term, six months to a year out of my self directed ira and that's a great source of revenue for us in building our wealth. And that's really the extent of what I'm doing now because of my focus on, on building on air brands and building Podmax and helping the real estate community in a different way. And yeah, it's been a wild ride. Really.

Yeah, no, it's been fascinating and I look forward to hearing more about Podmax at the end of the show here and when that's coming up next.

Yeah, absolutely.

So being a business owner who also invests in real estate, and we have a lot of our listeners are business owners as well, what advice would you give to someone who. Because also, as you mentioned, your business also has ties to the investing world. In the multifamily world. If someone's wanting to build their business in a way that they can effectively use it to fuel their investments, where they have a plan of what they want to be investing in, how have you done that to tie the two together? And what advice would you give someone to be able to tie their business into effectively fuel their investments.

Yeah. So as investors, we're often looking for people to partner with. We're looking for people who we can help to do what it is we're doing, which is creating financial freedom for ourselves and our families. So when you're looking for partners. You have to quickly realize that people are not going to invest their hard earned money and their retirement savings with someone they don't know like and trust. So you have to make sure that you establish those three things very early on. So how do you get people to know you? You do that through networking, you do that through social media. How do you get them to like you? You become consistent with that message. It has to be the same message every time. And you have to show up, you have to constantly, constantly, constantly create and constantly, constantly give and add value to people's business and lives. So there's the no. Then now they like you because you're giving them something all the time, right? They're gaining a ton, they're learning a ton from you. So as they start to like you, they don't even realize it. They eventually, hopefully meet you in person, shake your hand, have a conversation, see that you are consistent as an individual on your social and digital world is consistent with the man that I'm speaking to in person and they shake your hand. Now they trust you. So now you've fused that sphere, that circle of influence, all of that stuff is working for you and has to start with branding and marketing and figuring out who you are as an individual because that creates your core values of whatever it is you're going to build from there. So as you realize these are very important to me in my life now I'm going to instill this culture into a business and the people around me and find people, I'm going to emanate, I'm going to vibrate at this frequency. You're going to attract people that are going to want to help you because they want to either vibrate at that frequency or they want to, they want to level up with you. So I've found that when I'm consistent with my message every single day and I'm consistent with who I am as a person, so when you meet me, you realize I'm for real, what you see out there. Then I build a team around me of like minded people and then we build together. So then in order to build together, you have to have a culture, you have to have core values and you have to have a consistent message so that everyone is now in sync and in concert and singing in the same tune. Now it's power. Now your power of influence is really, really expanding because then people, the more people in the brand, as I know I'm going high level here, but the more people that are involved, the quicker and Easier it is for you to reach more people. So you have to be. So I'm looking at your brand, Next Level Income behind you. It's a very powerful looking, quick hit. You have to be very conscious of your logo and your brand, because if it's not quick and easy to identify as I'm driving down the highway and I see it somewhere, then it's not a great brand. So you have to be conscious of how quickly someone can identify it. And then also, are they going to begin to associate it with someone that they know like and trust?

Eric, this is good stuff, man. And we kind of learn this in reverse. You know, Caleb, he's got a lot more experience doing this than me on the marketing side. And like, the whole genesis of the Next Level Income show that you're on was Caleb's idea. And then we really did it to curate information. And you said one thing, provide that value to not only our investors, but people that wanted to take that first step in what we call the Next Level Income strategy of make more money. It's been neat to kind of observe it from the inside and see what you're talking about, because people call and say, hey, Chris, this is a call I got last week. He said, hey, Chris, I've been listening to the show and I really like what you're doing. I really enjoy learning. He goes, but it's been a way that I'm sure you've been able to stay in touch with investors and educate them. It's like, wow, yeah, that's exactly what you just said. And here was an investor telling me that, saying, hey, this is why I like it. It's really cool. So there is business value to that, and it kind of goes back to the abundance mindset that we were talking about before the show. So would you mind sharing a little bit more? I see your bracelet flashing up and down here. It's green. Is that gobundance?

Yeah, it's Go Bundance. We affectionately call ourselves Go Bros. And it's funny because I have women in my company and whenever I mention it, they cringe because I'm like, we have go Wives. And they're like, can they come up with a better name? So I'm trying to figure out if we can maybe.

I got. I got one. I got one that rhymes with Go bros. But I don't think I'm going to say it. I can't. That was not going to go over well, probably. No, no, no, no.

I'm going to make sure. I'm going to make sure. My wife does not hear this episode, but yes.

Can we edit that out? That's a joke. That's a joke for everybody.

It's a joke.

Yeah.

Come on. If you can't laugh in business, come on. That's right.

That's right.

But yeah, Go Bundance is a wonderful community that I've joined recently through my. My brother from another mother, Josh McAllen and Matt Faircloth. So they. They've been talking about it. I know Matt's been talking about for years, and it was always something I aspired to be just, just through Matt and hearing everything that he's doing and who. Who is a part of it.

So.

So Hal Elrod, who wrote the Miracle Morning is a go, bro.

Oh, really? I love that book, Miracle Morning. That's a great book.

So when I. So when I figured out, wow, there's all these high performers that I would love to be around someday, I want to be that. So I had the fortune of being a guest recently in Aspen. And once I was exposed to everyone physically and just shaking hands and the whole know, like, and trust thing and just being. Seeing the people walk around, I'm huge fans of. And getting to know everyone at a deeper level, I realized, yeah, this is really. This is. This is my family.

Yeah.

And where do I sign up? Because they're all about abundance, mindset, they're all about accountability, they're all about health and wellness. They're all about family and how important it is to make sure your lifestyle is beneficial to your family so that you don't neglect. Because as entrepreneurs, we often, like I was telling you earlier, burn the candle at both ends and you don't realize, wow, I haven't been home for weeks, you know, and gobundance, I noticed right away, family, they even have something called family fanbundance. And it's. Yeah. It's just an amazing opportunity for entrepreneurs as they level up, to be around other people who are way, way just, just in the stratosphere. And, you know, your network is your net worth. So if you surround yourself with people.

Yeah.

That are, that are. That are just achieving at high levels, it's only going to spill and influence you.

I love it. I appreciate you sharing it because I saw that. I'm like, what is that green bracelet? And I had someone else tell me about it and I look. It seems amazing. So, yeah, I look forward to continuing that conversation, Eric, and learn more because I think as we've talked about previously, all the money, all the success, if your family, if the base crumbles then you've built it upon nothing. We were using the juggling concept, which I always like to say, your family is your one ball. You can't drop that's made of glass. That's, you know, the most important and everything else. You can drop your work every once in a while. Maybe you don't sleep enough. Maybe you skip some workouts. I was going through a period a year ago where I gained about five pounds. That wasn't healthy weight, and it was okay. Like, I knew it and, you know, I was able to kind of rebalance things over the course of the year. So I think I can't wait to hear more about it. It sounds like it's a really cool community of people.

Yeah, I think. I think you fit 100%. So. Yeah.

Yeah. With what you're talking about, being around people that sort of level you up. I was just having a conversation with my friend yesterday about how that's true in so many aspects. Like, when Chris was on your show, he talked about his background in bike racing, and that's how we met. And I don't know about. For you, but whenever I'd be in races against some, like, really good guys, I would level up my game. I would race better against better people, which is weird, but it's kind of like. Seems a little counterintuitive, but it sort of forces you to perform at a higher level. So when you talk all this marketing stuff, you're speaking my language. And I know you've done some work with rebranding multifamily properties, and this is an aspect that may be like, Chris talks about liking looking at spreadsheets. And so maybe when you're looking at a spreadsheet, you don't really think as much about, like, the impact of that. But what's your experience been and what do you see as being the impact on an effective rebrand? Because some of the properties we've worked with, we go in and completely change the name, logo, all of that. So could you share some of you think that is.

So it's critical, especially if you're in the market, you know, C minus, C plus, sort of neighborhoods and areas where people associate that name and that brand of the property in a negative way. You know, whether it's drug dealers or prostitution, a lot of shady things going on in the properties that we acquire. If you're in this space. So especially if you Google it, Google the name of anything that you're gonna purchase before you purchase it and see what the overall opinion is of that.

Area we. To that point, Eric, we looked at a property and while we were looking at it, there was, there was a murder and it popped right up on the Google search. So, yeah, Google the property. You can find out some interesting things.

Google it. Yeah, yeah, you could do your numbers all day long, but if you're not aware of how people perceive that you may be stepping into a landmine. So once you take it down, we'll talk about. After it's all done and you pop the champagne, you really have to strongly consider rebranding it. So rebranding is a way to change the face and change the idea and the concept behind whatever it is you're purchasing or a company or whatever it is, you're updating it. And it's important to think about not just the look and feel of the logo, but the name of it. Right. Because now this is an asset that you own, you and your partners own. So you can take it at a personal level. You know, it could be something. So we rebranded, you know, for my buddy Matt, and we called it Douglas Square. You know, from. I forget what the name of it was before, but we changed it because now it harkens back to. It's a callback to his father, you know, because he was in the military and Fort Bragg is not far from the property itself. So Douglas Square is a reference to something that's near and dear to his heart. So we were able to identify something that was close to him and then create a new logo, a new brand. And then actually here's a key that I highly recommend people do is submit to Google that it's under new management and give it so that the people aren't associating the old property with your new property. Because if they Google the address right. The other stuff, the murders potentially are going to come back. So you want.

We did buy that property for the record.

Yeah, that's good to know. That's good to know. So, yeah, just consider all these little things that you may think is not important but is important in terms of the long game, the long story that you're trying to tell.

Yeah, no, I think that's. It's something we don't, we don't, maybe we don't think about as well. Let me rephrase that. Us left brain people don't think much about sometimes.

Well, that's why you have Caleb and that's why you have a team that helps you think on the other side.

Yeah, absolutely. So, Eric, I mentioned it earlier a couple months ago, the show air Here in May, people are probably listening to it. So podmax, I found out about it a little too late. Would love to hear more about it, how you founded it and what's it all about.

Yeah, so PodMax is really. And thanks for asking. It's a unique experience, I like to call it, because, you know, people are often aware of, you know, the conference experience. There's a lot of people in the room, and then you have networking events where there's a lot of people in the room, and then you have something, you know, called Mastermind. So if you have the opportunity and the privilege to be a part of a mastermind, those are more intimate, you know, anywhere between, you know, five to 20 people. So we like to say we have that Mastermind feel when it comes to podcasting, because what I've noticed is as we grow and build podcasts for our clients and ourselves, we have an opportunity to bring people in to our space physically and have them record on several shows in one day. So as entrepreneurs, we love to have these podcasts where we act as the host, asking questions and helping to lift that person's brand and awareness. But oftentimes we don't do it for ourselves. Right. So our guests come through these entrepreneurs and business owners and they get to be physically in the room with top rated shows like Cash Flow Ninja.

Yeah.

You know, like I was mentioning Matt Faircloth show and the derosa channel on YouTube and all these other podcasts that you get to share your message, share your story, tell everyone to tell their communities how you can help and add value to their life and business. So it's really a cool way to sort of market yourself. And then the Mastermind feel, we have breaks so that you get to mingle and meet people who are just achieving at high levels because there is a ticket, there is a high ticket, relatively high ticket price to get in. So, you know, people are taking their business seriously if they're investing in their marketing and in their branding and trying and there to share and to meet people. So what people have come back to me with is like, wow, I met a business partner at your event. He was, you know, he was another person being interviewed or, you know, I've now become a client or MC has become a client of mine. You know, there's all this fusion and collaboration because like you were always mentioning, everyone has this abundance mindset at our events and it's because we curate it. You know, we only pick. We've select and hand picked 12 entrepreneurs to be a part of these events and we want to make sure that the value is always there and the next level entrepreneurs are all present. So, yeah, that's really podmax.

I love it, man. And I love, you know, talking to you in our few conversations now, Eric, one of the things that I love about you and I see it continues to resonate and come up is, you know, your theme is networking people and abundance. And maybe you could just. How do you think, what do you think shaped that in your life to help kind of understand that, you know, this, this energy and this success comes from, like you say, your network.

Yeah. I. So coming from corporate America and that employee standing around the water cooler mindset, I was not there. I was watching the Walking Dead. I was binging on television and watching movies and just not really at that next level in terms of my mindset and helping other people. It was all about me, me, me, me. As I started to become an entrepreneur and build businesses, I would and actually really interview people on my shows. I saw a common thread like how people, the most successful people were about helping other people. It wasn't about them. It wasn't about the money. I'll never forget one of my coaches saying, you're worrying about the money too much. Stop worrying about the money and figure out how you can be valuable and add value to people's lives.

Yeah.

When I finally cracked that code and the code was locked in my head, that's when my world changed. When that became genuine, I used to honestly just say it like, oh, yeah, I'm here to help. I'm here to help. But I wasn't 100% there yet. When I got to the 100%, my world completely cracked wide open and I started to attract more people like that, and we all started to help each other. And then, then it just became this swell, this, this tidal wave of, you know, the rising tide lifting all boats.

Yeah.

And. And it really, really built all the businesses. And I always like to, you know that. That saying of building the plane while it flies, that's truly what we're always doing because it's always changing and evolving and we're always building on to, to, to newer, bigger things. And the only way to do that is through the help of others because we can't do. We can't do big things by ourselves.

I know, that's spot on. I mean, it really is. I love. I heard you say it. Your network is your net worth and that abundance mindset. And it's. Again, I really appreciate you sharing that story because I think I found the Same thing. The more you help people. That's actually what I tell my sons, actually. I teach them the next level income strategy that I talk about in my book, the Make, Keep, Grow. We focus on make and grow. I try to teach them a little about investing, but I tell them how you make money is you help people. So look for opportunities to help people. And I've been in the, you know, being in the medical device industry, you know, you help patients out, you know, we help our investors out, you provide information, you know, it's at the core of what we do and we're trying to pass that on, at least in our family. And it sounds like you're living it too, so I really appreciate you sharing that.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. That's also sort of a counterintuitive mindset. But having that mindset has helped me a lot. A mantra I kind of have in my head that I try to repeat every day is, it's not about you. So it's always about other people and helping other people. And the weird thing is people would say like, you know, say someone who makes a lot of money or this or that, like, oh, that person's greedy. But for that to happen, they had to help a whole lot of other people. And so they're actually the opposite of what say the more traditional way of thinking, how I would view them. So I think that's fantastic. So this might actually, you might have already answered this next question, but one question we ask everyone on the show is if they could go back and talk to their 25 year old self with everything that they've learned, but only offer one piece of advice, what would that be? It could be about life, business, anything.

Yeah. If I can go back in time, which hopefully in our lifetime somebody will figure out. Time travel, you know, the best movie of all time. For the record, in Time travels back to the future.

Love it.

Oh, yeah.

So if I ever go to DeLorean.

We actually saw when it originally came out though, Caleb, so yeah, that's a good endorsement though.

Yeah, Caleb saw it streaming, you know, so yeah, I saw it in the movie theater.

I think I saw it on vhs or maybe it was Beta. It could have been Beta back then.

But so I love it, man. We had a ton of Betas. I would go back and tell myself, don't be afraid to fail because I grew up in a household that said failure was not an option, failure was a bad thing. And when I realized that it was a learning process, that failure. The best quote ever for me that Changed everything from my. In my life and to reprogram myself was failure is success in progress. And when I heard failure is success and progress, that changed everything because I was like, oh, my God. I'm allowed to experiment. I'm allowed to take risks. I'm allowed to make mistakes. This is great. And once I got that locked into my brain, everything started to become success because I didn't look at these things as failures. I didn't look at these things as something that I shouldn't have done, But I looked at it for how can I leverage this as a learning tool? What did I learn from that mistake that I'll make sure not to do again or tweak and modify or share with someone else so they don't make that mistake. That just changed everything. So that if I. But here's the thing, though. If we were able to go back in time, I shouldn't tell myself that because then I wouldn't be here with you guys right now, right?

I know. It's.

Let him live his life.

That's. Yeah, no, it is. It is. It makes you think. I mean, that's part of Back to the Future, right? It's kind of a mind twist when you think about, okay, you change this thing.

And one little thing, right?

Oh, yeah. It's absolutely amazing. And man, you've had a lot of great golden nuggets, man, in this. And we're going to put some of these in the show notes here. But for people that want to get in touch with you, Eric, they want to learn more about on air brands, Podmax, some of the other projects that you're part of, Renault Winery. What's the best way to get a hold of you?

Yeah, I mean, people could reach me directly at eric, eric nairbrands.com so reach out to me. Let me know that you heard the show. More than happy to send you some swag. You know, we've built our little swag merch page and you know, we're like, we got mugs, we got T shirts, stickers, whatever you want, whatever you need. So hit me up. And more than happy to talk to you, but if you want to check out what we're doing on air brands, that or Podmax Co. So Podmax Co.

Awesome. So we're going to have that in the show notes. We're also going to have a link to get our free book, Next Level Income, recently published on Amazon. But go to our website, nextlevelincome.com book to get your free copy. Eric, thank you so much. For being on the show today. It's been a blast. And look forward to more conversations with you in the future.

Awesome. Thanks so much for having me, guys. Appreciate it.

Absolutely.