How The Election Will Shape The Real Estate Market Webinar Replay

People think like, oh, you know, Trump gets reelected, the stock market keeps going up, the real estate market keeps going up. Like, we can't lose. You know, it's like going on a run in the casino. And this is when you need to be cautious and you really need to shift towards, towards value. Welcome to the Next Level Income show, where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host, Chris Larsen. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website, nextlevelincome.com. that's www.nextlevelincome.com. just click on the book link and I'll even send you a copy if you put your address in. Talk about how the 2025 election will shape the real estate market. This is my host, Matt Foer. Welcome, Matt, welcome.

Thanks for having us. So, just to kick off here, we'll get into the first slide. First and foremost, legal disclaimers. We always start with the good stuff first, right? This is not financial advice. This is not financial guidance. Chris and I are just kind of trying to take the entire environment that we see going on in the US Here in the real estate market and the political and just give our thoughts on it. So just a quick legal disclaimer there. But for those of you that don't know me, my name is Matt Foer. I'm based out of Nashville, Tennessee. As you can see in the bottom left hand corner there, I'm married with two kids. We spent 90 minutes trying to get photo shoots and that was Palmer's most calm photo shoot. She brings the energy in our family. But that's Palmer, Shep, and then my lovely wife Jennifer there. Beyond that, outside of real estate and real estate investing, I'm a big triath athlete. So I believe that everybody should have a picture of themselves and spandex on the Internet. So this is me satisfying that requirement. That's my me coming down the finishing chute at Ironman ZMZ World Championships. And that beautiful young woman is my, my mother that I'm giving a hug to. But beyond that, I'm a host of the podcast Ice Cream with investors. Abraham Lincoln once said it was the best podcast on the Internet. So, like, subscribe and check us out on YouTube, Google Podcast, Apple podcasts, and all of your podcasting apps out there.

Chris, we're going to have to fact check that man. But I don't disagree.

Hey, honestly, can't disagree with him.

That's right. And I've been. I've been very fortunate to be one of Matt's friends and be at his wedding with his lovely wife and meet his lovely family. And, and Matt's in Nashville. I'm in Asheville, North Carolina, and we're doing okay after the, after the storm here a couple months ago. I appreciate a lot of people in the community have reached out. Thank you guys very much. As well as donating to our nonprofit Western Carolina Emergency Network. We've done a lot for the community here lately and thank you for everyone who has participated there. We're going to have a lot of fun tonight. We're going to talk about some stuff, but the reason you see the pictures up here that you do as you did with the ones that Matt shared, is because money is really a vehicle to help us achieve what we want to do in life. And my family is very important to me. These are some fun moments that I've experienced here over the last several years. This was a picture of me rafting down the Grand Canyon. This was actually my favorite spot on the Grand Canyon here in Toroweap where we've overlooked there that I keep in the back. This is my family here. I got two boys, Ethan and Miles, my wonderful wife Jessica, who's an architect that helped design the home that I'm sitting in right now. And just a quick note, that picture of the four of us was taken at the celebration of my sister's life. She passed away a few months ago. So just appreciate life, appreciate every moment you have. Appreciate that the family you have, because you just don't know how many days we have left. So we want to help you not only maximize your financial future and your ability, but also the ability to use those finances to get the most out of every day that you have.

Awesome. Well, switching us to our agenda tonight. So we've got four different topics that we're going to cover today. The first and foremost is just an election recap. If you've buried your head in the sand for the past couple months, maybe you missed kind of the election results. So we'll just do a quick recap on those. The second thing is really potential policy impacts that we're watching. I think these aren't going to be new to a lot of you out there, but how they can impact the real estate segment is important. Third is really interest rates and inflation. So some new data prints that came out earlier this week and a Fed meeting that's going to happen later this week as well. And then just ultimately how this impacts real estate as A whole so just kicking us off with the election results. Most people follow the election at the top line. At the presidential election level. This is probably no news to anybody out there, but obviously we've got a new administration coming in. But what most people might have missed is not only the House, not only the Senate, but also the governorship went red as well during this race, this wave. So there was really only two times in the past hundred years when this happened. The first was when Eisenhower got elected in 1953 and then the second was when Obama got elected in 2008. And why that's important is because if you remember those years from 08 to 10 under the Obama administration, there were really three different legislations that got passed that were monumental. One was the aca, often called Obamacare. The second was the Reinvestment package, American Recovery and Reinvestment package, which was a 787 billion doll billion dollar stimulus. And then the last was Dodd Frank, which was a consumer protection banking regulation that's still in impacting today. It's safe to say that all three of those were fairly controversial when they passed. Meaning that if the current administration did not, or that administration did not have both the President, the House and the Senate, there's a good chance that those three laws do not get passed. And if they did not have the governorship, chances are when it got rolled down to the state level, you would have seen a lot of states push back on implementing those laws or abiding by those laws. Now obviously the ACA went through a number of different legal disputes all the way up to the Supreme Court. So there was still a little bit of pushback in implementing that law. But ultimately when you have a full party support at the presidential Senate, House and governorship level, you basically get a rubber stamp for 18 months to go implement whatever you want to implement. So how is the country kind of responding to this? We've seen from the cci, which is the Consumer Confidence index, spike dramatically over the past couple of months. In fact, it's at a higher level now than it has been in the past three years. I think the last time it was at this high was 2021, right after kind of the COVID bounce that we got there. And this is really important for a lot of different economic factors. If you think about it, if you as a consumer feel like is going to be better or the following year is going to be better and you see a little bit extra money in your bank account, chances are you're going to spend that money and then when you go spend that money, a business receives profits and then they can go make additional investments, whether in equipment or in employees. Well, if they hire new employees now, you've got more employees that are spending money in the economy and going to corporations which now have bigger profits and can go invest in either investments or employees. So as this kind of optimism persists throughout the economy, you get a little flywheel going that adds a tailwind to just about every different segment out there. And there's a number of different reasons for this. Right? The inflation prints are are down from where they were two years ago. Interest rates are starting to come back down. Unemployment for all, even though it's gone from 3.7 to 4. 2. For all intents and purposes, it's at an economic or a historic low. And obviously new administration breeds just new life into the economy and different policies that are coming out there. So not only are you seeing the political landscape shift, but you're also seeing a sense of optimism at the consumer level, which is going to trickle down. But ultimately at a policy level, there's kind of two things that are really top of mind. One is the renewal of the 2017 tax Tax cuts and Job act. And then the second is really tariff. So let's start with the 2017 Tax, Jobs Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. There were four different components of this law. One is bonus depreciation. Two was a standard deduction. Three is individual income rates, income tax rates, and then four is mortgage interest rate debt, the amount of mortgage rate interest you can deduct. So starting at the top level, bonus depreciation, it's near and dear heart to all of us in the real estate segment. Bonus depreciation or depreciation as a whole is a non cash expense used to lower your taxable income. So put differently, if you earn $50,000 and then you invest in a rental property that has $50,000 of depreciation, you can use the depreciation to wipe off the income, lowering your tax burden to zero. Now I'm not a cpa. Chris is not a cpa. Don't go out there. And this isn't financial advice. Your accountant should answer this, how it impacts you. But what bonus depreciation did was on typical rental properties. You can take the depreciation and spread it out over 27 and a half years. It allowed us to pull a lot of that depreciation forward into the first five years. So when this first got passed in 100% bonus depreciation in year one, some of the properties we were Buying, we could almost do a one to one investment to depreciation ratio in year one. So put differently, you invest $100,000, we could show an 80, 90, even sometimes $100,000 depreciation in year one. Thus any income you're receiving from that property would essentially be tax deferred or tax free. In 2022, bonus depreciation started stepping down. So it was once a hundred percent, then it was 80%. This year at 60% the following year is 40%. And it starts removing that incentive for real estate investors to go want to invest in real estate because they're not getting as much depreciation in year one. They have to spread it out over the lifetime of the property. Same with heavy machinery equipment. Same with buying cars for businesses. Same with buying any sorts of equipment with businesses. When you remove that bonus depreciation or reduce it, you have less incentive to go invest. So that will be phased out by 2026. And if you think about the timeline of the first 18 months really matter, this is a top priority for the administration to go figure out how they're going to renew this. The second thing was standard deductions. So most of Americans do not itemize their deductions. They just say, give me what the standard deduction is and I'll file my taxes from there. In 2017, when this was introduced, we jumped up from $6,000 for individual earners and $12,000 for joint filers to $12,000 and $24,000 for individual and joint filers again in 2026. This is going to revert back to its older level of 6 and 12, thus increasing taxes for the individual out there who's doing a standard deduction and not itemization. Not only that, but individual income tax rates. They were bumped down when this law was introduced in 2016 though, we'll revert back to their older levels with the top level being 39.6 or 39.8. Spitting off the top of my head there, but a higher level than what it is today across all boards. So that's something that they will definitely want to go renew. And then the last is mortgage interest. So if you, if this is essentially, if you have a mortgage of more than $750,000, you can only itemize your interest deduction up to $750,000 of interest that you have. So what does this mean? This means that if you were going to buy a house for $2 million and you have a loan of a million five, then only the first $750,000 of your loan, could you deduct the interest from your personal income tax rate? So, again, it may not impact anybody on the phone. It may impact everybody on the phone, but ultimately it's opening up the price band of higher mortgages if we got rid of this clause that's in there today. So again, just kind of recapping the 2017 Jobs act is one of the most impactful tax policies of the last generation. This is starting to step down back to revert to 201616 levels, and that will be completed in 2026. Renewing this and refreshing. This is something that the administration, current administration has talked about, the new administration has been talking about, and it's something that we're keeping an eye on because it'll impact real estate investors across the board. Chris, I'll switch it to you to talk about tariffs, the other important initiative on the, on the docket here.

Yeah. And that's the question. Will these tariffs pour cold water on the economy or were they actually heated up? And we don't know. I think you know Trump, I've been reading his books for 20 years. He's a business person. And my impression is that he's using these tariffs as a lever, as a negotiation tool. I was just watching a video. He had the CEO of SoftBank today commit to $100 billion investment in America. And right there on the stage, he said, hey, let's make it 200 billion. And the CEO turned around and said, with your support, I want to make that happen. He brought Trudeau in and talked about the tariffs. My wife's Canadian. I'm very well acquainted with what's going on in Canada. Talk to her family a lot. I do some stuff business wise with them. Same thing with Mexico. So let's talk about the worst case scenario. Let's say lumber costs go up because there's Canadian tariffs. Let's say there's 60% tariffs on Chinese companies. Are they going to implement it all at once? Probably not. They're probably going to phase it in. They're going to do it in a very rational manner, is my opinion, because the goal is America first is the way the administration is talking about this. So I think they'll kind of make it a point to allow American companies to replace Chinese companies and do that, which is the goal. But even then, if they put these tariffs on, you're looking at say, 5, 8, maybe 10% on the high end of increase in costs for construction of properties. Now, I'm going to talk about this a little bit later in the presentation, when we talk about affordable housing, this is a double edged sword. While it increases cost of construction, that actually aids those properties that are already built because it increases the margin between the, the replacement cost and the current cost. So most of our projects, for instance, are value add projects. We're buying projects and properties that are already in force, that are already in service and we're going and improving them. So it actually gives a competitive advantage to those. So I think value add investors would actually potentially benefit from, from some of these tariffs. The challenge is, will the tariffs, you know, will they put a damper on the economy? In that case it may decrease inflation. So this isn't a vacuum where this is operating. This is a little bit of a nuanced area. But overall I think that tariffs are probably going to be used more of a lever than just throw them into the economy and boost the prices across the board here I touched on inflation a little bit. What is the forecast for interest rates? This is a forecast, this is the Fed dot plot here. We don't, we don't know exactly where interest rates are going to go. But if you look at this here, you can clearly see from today's interest rates and you know, the upper 4 to 5% range, we're looking at them trending down, back down to the two and a half, three, 3.5% range in the longer run over the next three, four years. And if there is a recession during that time, I think that this is even, even more likely to occur. To occur. Now again we have to consider like if there's a recession and rates decrease, is that really good? I would say I'd rather have a great economy and rates be a little bit higher. But when we consider the real estate market, one of the things that is challenging is it's really hard for buyers to buy new homes. And when rates are high, cap rates increase. So if we move forward to the next slide here, we're going to talk a little bit about, sorry, I'll touch on CPI expectations, but we're going to talk about those other two bullet points. So this is where we start to get a little schizophrenic because we say, okay, these are CPI expectations. Now CPI expectations, which is a measure of inflation, is higher after the election has occurred. And that's because there's more, as Matt started the presentation, with more optimism with the economy. So if there's more optimism, there's more money flowing through the economy. That means there's more demand for products and inflation goes up. Typically there's more money in the economy, that's from the government printing money. There's more inflation in the economy. I would argue that the past two, three, four years, the inflation has been from the printing of money, not necessarily the organic economic activity that's been occurring. And one could also argue that Trump's first administration, there was also a lot of debt, there was a lot of money printing as well. So I can't say for certain where inflation is going to be or where it's going to go. But I think there's, there's a couple of things that play into this. So how does that look when it comes to the real estate markets? So before we touch on that, one of the things that I like to illustrate is if you look at the spread between cap rates. So if you know what a cap rate is when it comes to commercial real estate, I may be, I may be just kind of repeating some knowledge that's already out there. But for those of you that aren't, aren't as aware, a cap rate is going to be the price that you're going to pay for a property and the cap rate is going to be a percentage based on the dollar you pay. So if you pay a dollar for a property and the property is valued at a 5% cap rate, you're going to get 5 cents per dollar that you pay. And the current cap rate for multifamily, for instance, is right around there. It's like five and a quarter percent for average cap rates in the multifamily. And the, one of the important metrics that I track is the 10 year treasury bill because over the course of time we're typically seeing about a 200 basis point just north of a 200 basis point spread on the 10 year treasury bill in terms of cap rates. So if you have a Treasury bill of 3%, you're going to typically see a cap rate of around 5% when it comes to, you know, specifically like the multi family market. And this is going to be, it's, this is inexact. You're going to see 100 basis points, you're going to see 300 basis points. But that kind of 400 basis point mark, as you see going back to 2012, when the market bottomed, you know, versus 2007, you saw it really shrink, shrink down to about 100 basis point. That's unusual. 400 basis points is unusual. You know, 2020, you saw, you saw it widen again as well with COVID I'm going to talk about why that was and how we can actually track this back over time. But we're right around the historical average right now. And if we look to the next slide here, we can, we can look at this in terms of the overall economic cycle. So if we think that that cap, if we think that interest rates are going down slightly in a downward trend, we should expect cap rates to go down in a downward trend and we should expect prices in the real estate market to start to increase. Now I pulled this from one of the, one of the groups that I've been following for over a decade now. Phil Anderson wrote a book, you've probably heard me, if you've listened to my podcast, you've heard me talk about this a few times. It's called the Secret Life of Real Estate and Banking. And I can talk about a lot of different economic cycles and one of the things that I try to break is this 18, actually 18.6 year real estate cycle that's out there. What I love is when people say seven year cycles, 11 year cycles, they all kind of fit into this. And I remember when I was younger, both my father, my stepfather, my mother were working for a company called JD Construction. And if you've, if you've heard of, of Jimmy Dean, go ahead and throw a one in the chat because Jimmy Dean had Jimmy Dean sausage and Jimmy Dean had a construction company in the 80s and 90s and my parents work for this construction company. Well, the savings and loan crisis happened and if you went to that prior slide, you would see that spread at that, at that period of time, we had some really incredible value. There we go. Thank you very much. Yeah, so we had, we actually had negative, we had negative spreads back then. So that market was really, really overvalued. Back in the late 80s the savings and loan crisis hit and the market crashed significantly. The real estate market. Both my parents lost their jobs at that time. I, then I was in college. Later on that decade, I saw the stock market and the real estate market rebound. I watched 9, 11 happen. And then I watched 2007, 2008, the Great Recession occur. And then let's jump to the next slide again. So where are we today in 2019? I was already tracking this and I said, hey, I think based on what I've seen, we really need to be cautious going into 2020. I said, I don't know what's going to happen, but I think the stock market's overvalued. I think that the real estate market is at kind of this inflection point and we actually shifted Our focus from these deeper value add properties that were like C +B minus type properties to higher quality properties. As the market shifted, the market dropped, then we saw a really massive rebound. Now if we track this, what we see is typically you see a seven year upcycle, you see a mid cycle slowdown which occurred during COVID Then you see another seven year upcycle, which puts us right around 2026 for the top of the cycle. Now what does that mean? This, this typically is going to track the residential market more precisely, but it also has a big, as a big factor in the commercial real estate market. And the reason is this entire cycle is undergirded. The foundation of this entire cycle is credit. So as credit expands, you're going to see this cycle grow. And as credit contracts, that's when you're going to see things slow down. And we can look at money printing, we can look at the banks that are out there, we can look at credit cards. We've seen credit increasing rapidly as we saw the slowdown occur, you see the credit pull back. So I, I am being very, I'm very intently watching the markets here over the next two years because I feel like we're hitting what some would call this winner's curse, which is people think like, oh, you know, Trump gets reelected, the stock market keeps going up, the real estate market keeps going up, like we can't lose. You know, it's like going on a run in the casino. And this is when you need to be cautious and you really need to shift towards, towards value, in my opinion. So what do you do? What types of, of properties, what types of assets are going to perform in this type of market? If you go back and for anybody that hasn't, if you don't have a copy of my book, whether you're watching here live or you're watching the replay, go to our website, NextLevelIncome.com click on the book link, put your address and get a copy of my book. I talk about how I got into the medical device space because of demographics. I talk about how I got in the multifamily space because of demographics. So if we look at demographics today, we see a couple things that are really apparent. Number one, we see a crisis of affordability. So we're going to talk about this in the coming slides. Also we see this silver tsunami that's coming. So we're talking about three things. The affordability crisis, the silver tsunami. And we're also going to talk about what type of assets perform well in this point of the real estate cycle. Typically at this point in the real estate cycle, interest rates are high, asset prices are high, and what else is high are the margins that banks have during this period. So if interest rates are high, banks are lending. It's a great time to either buy stock in banks or become the bank yourself. One of the things that we've done is we have a debt fund. So we actually lend out to investors that are buying kind of starter homes. They're doing fix and flips and they are borrowing money short term, six to nine months from us, and then they have to repay it. So we're lending that money out and we're paying our investors anywhere from 6 to 10%. So we're paying investors 6 to 10%. We're lending that money at somewhere around 14% to those investors that are going out and buying those homes. So we've created that. So if we. Click to the next slide. If we look at the multifamily market, there's been a lot of apprehension in the multifamily market because what's happened is as rents were going up, we had this great migration that was occurring across the country. So you have this affordability crisis that's going on. And what happened was people are moving from like California and New York and Illinois and these high price, kind of lower quality of life areas to the southeast to Texas to Florida, trying to get away from some of the things that were going on during COVID but also taxes and the weather. And they said, hey, if I can work from anywhere, why am I going to live in like, you know, you know, the Northeast? Or why am I going to have to live in California where I can't go out to eat and I got to wear, you know, three masks and, you know, I also got to pay 14% of my income just to live in the state where I could live in like Texas or Florida or somewhere like that. So you see this great migration. We were seeing rents increase, in some cases 20 to 25% annualized. And that, I mean, that's massive, right? When you have typically 3%, 4% average rent increases. So what happened was cost of capital was super low. You can get interest rates of 2, 3%, you could build new properties, you see rents increasing double digits. And that led to this massive supply that occurred in a lot of markets. So over the past couple of years, these markets have been digesting that supply. Rents have been suppressed, asset prices have been suppressed. But as you see, if you look at completions versus starts, we're gonna see that start to shift here. And we went from near record highs, I mean going all the way back in this chart as you can see, to the 60s down to record lows. So we're gonna start to see this cycle reverse. I was just reading, I didn't put this in the slides here, but I'm reading here from today. So if we, if we look at this report from Bloomberg, it said the mortgage payment on a median single price single family home is 35% of median household income and 30% is the threshold. So there's only two states in the country that fall at 30% or lower of the area median income. So we're basically at this affordability crisis because interest rates and home prices are so high. So it actually makes more sense right now to rent than to buy. So that's going to be a nice boost for apartments going forward. Multifamily. I quote my friend Sam, I was talking to Matt about an hour ago and he just moved to Miami from Tampa. And I said, hey, did you buy, are you renting down there, Sam? And he's, he's in his late 20s, he's not married yet, he's moving to, to Miami. And he goes, Kris, he goes, why would I buy? He said, the place we're buying, it's a million and a half dollars. I'd be putting 250k down and at least and I'd be paying $8,000 for my mortgage. He goes, Chris, I got the $250,000 in my pocket. I'm paying $5,500 in rent. Now those are big numbers, like Miami's expensive. But you look at that difference, 8,000 to buy, 5,500 to rent. Plus you keep $250,000 in your pocket. So the, the Gen Z and a lot of people are leaning towards renting now versus buying for, for a lot of those reasons. The other issue we have is that, you know, to meet demand, I got another article pulled up here. The US needs over 4 million apartments by 2035, but we're not building enough. So we're getting back to historical averages in terms of building and even though we've seen some pullback in the multifamily space, which I know invest, some investors are very nervous about, we're seeing a long term buoyancy in terms of that. And I like to bet on long term 10, 20 year trends. And that's why I got into the medical device space. That's why I got into multifamily. And if we turn to the next slide we're going to go and touch on very briefly what I think is going to be, in my opinion, one of the asset classes that's really going to outperform in the next decade, which is senior housing. I'll tell a quick personal story. My stepfather's 71, he has dementia, he's living in our guest house that we built. And we're going to see more and more of this. This chart is the adjusted birth rate in this country shifted forward 85 years. Now the average age that somebody moves into assisted living is in their early 80s. And if you look at this chart, we're at the rock bottom point of this chart right now. Coming out of COVID the, the senior housing assisted living space was in just absolute crisis, you know, because no one could move into these places and their residents were dying at a 10 to 20% rate per year. That's the average rate. So you have this turnover that's occurring. So if you're losing 10, 15, 20% of your residents a year and you can't move anybody in, that's, that's, that's really bad for occupancy. So just now it takes a couple years to pull out of that. Just now that industry, that asset segment is starting to move out of these lows and I think that we're going to have an absolute crisis in this country and I think there's going to be a massive, massive opportunity in the senior housing space. So expect to see some, some really exciting partnerships come out from us here. If you're not an investor with us already, if you want to get on our list and get access to our investments, priority access, go into our website, NextLevelIncome.com Click on the Invest link and we'll keep you updated on that. But I think this is going to be a really, a really interesting place to watch. And if you're like me, if you're, you know, in your 40s or 50s, you likely have apparent that's in this. And it's not only potential investment opportunity, but it's something that hits home that we're going to have to solve for our country as a whole. Gold's been on its hair. Gold has typically done really well prior to inflationary peaks and we've seen gold outperform in terms of years past. We can go back and trace this as well, going back in prior decades, and that's because we've seen a lot of inflation in this country. One of the things that people talk about as digital gold now is bitcoin So I like precious metals. I think it fits in a nice portion of my portfolio. I was just looking today, and I don't know if anybody's tracked the most recent bitcoin price, but I know it crested 106,000 earlier today. If we look at going forward like bitcoin's, Bitcoin's a hot, a hot commodity right now. If we, if we click to the next slide, I was just reading, it says this headline, Trump may use Bitcoin as US Reserve asset on day one. So Trump could potentially sign executive order making bitcoin a US reserve asset and would purchase $20 billion of bitcoin in 2025. BlackRock just released a report sizing bitcoin and portfolios, recommending a 1 to 2% allocation in Bitcoin. There's, you know, story after story. Michael Saylor, who is the CEO of MicroStrategy, is super bullish on bitcoin. Just finished up her presentation. His base model estimates bitcoin to be $13 million a coin. $13 million a coin. So let's, let's, that's over the next 20 years. So let's, let's back up a little bit. If we look at bitcoin versus gold, as I was just touching on, bitcoin valuation is like $500,000. If you look at BlackRock, they said 1 to 2% of assets. So if you have a 5 million portfolio, that means basically one Bitcoin. So one, one Bitcoin is your portfolio. Be one would be. I'm sorry, that'd be 2% if you had a $5 million portfolio. So even if it was 1%, which BlackRock says 1 to 2% is the recommended allocation for their, for their customers, even 1% would be a Bitcoin value of $420,000. And then I don't know if anybody's heard of the stock to flow model, but you can check out plan B. If you type in plan B, you'll see a lot of his stuff pop up. He's got a whole channel and this sort of thing. He developed what's called the stock to flow model, which is on the next slide. And he estimates that bitcoin in the short term is going to hit between a quarter million and a million dollars in value when it comes to that. And the stock to flow is something that is relative with respect to precious metals like gold. And I'm not going to go into it right now. I don't want to hype bitcoin up too much, but I think it's certainly an asset that we should watch over over the next several years here. And it's something that I think could potentially add value to your portfolio. And I'll end on that. Again, as Matt said in the beginning, like, we're not, we're not financial advisors, we're not accountants, we're not your attorneys. So you should certainly take anything you hear tonight. One, with a grain of salt, two, realize we don't have crystal balls. And three, take it to your own advisors and look into that. But if you look at how the smart money, how the richest people out there, how the institutions invest, they're putting somewhere between 20 and 30% in income producing real estate, which is our favorite asset class, and they're putting 1, 2% in Bitcoin. So I think this is something that can help you out. And if you want to learn more about how you can transition from trading your time for money, develop passive income streams. We got some cool opportunities that we're going to offer exclusively tonight. If you want a free strategy session with myself or Matt, you can email coachingextlevelincome.com email coachingextlevelincome.com you get a free strategy session with us. I am offering the deepest discount I've ever done on our course. So this is our course to help you develop six figures of passive income. It's typically 1497, but I'm in a, in a pretty festive mood here because we had our eggnog party on Saturday night and I still might be a little drunk from that. And if you order that course from us here before the end of the year, we'll also send you one of these next level income hats, which my coaching client just said it's the nicest hat he's ever gotten. And it's actually they make him one of our coaching clients that Matt introduced me to makes these. We'll also send you several other resources in there as well. And then we're starting our next coaching program on the 27th of January and you can get $2,000 off. And this is for tonight only. It's instead of $5,000, it's $3,000 for our three month coaching program goes up to $3,500 tomorrow. It's normally $5,000. We're going to offer that $3,500 discount though for those that are listening here through the end of the year. But if you're on tonight, you're in luck and you can check that out. And hey, if you buy the coaching course tonight and you want to upgrade to the course. And after you do that, we'll apply your 497 and we'll give you that $2,000 discount. So that's a way that you can lock that in. So we are, we're a little bit behind schedule. I was going to try to wrap up here a little bit earlier, but I want to leave the next five to 10 minutes for anybody that has any questions and we can, you can throw those in the chat, any questions that you have. And we'll treat this as a little open forum for anybody that has anything. If you have any questions you don't want to ask in the open forum, feel free. Reach out coachingextlevelincome.com that goes to both Matt and I. We will get your questions. We're happy to, we're happy to take those. If you have any questions about the course, get us an email tonight. Happy to answer any of those that you have. Thank you so much for everybody that's joined us live tonight. And if you're, again, if you're listening to the recording, same thing, reach out to us@coachingextlevelincome.com Again, you can schedule a free, a free strategy session with either of us. 30, 30 minutes. We'll go through your personal situation, how we can help you go from earning active income to passive income, replace that income, spend more time doing what you love and what you're meant to do with your life. Hey Chris, here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to gift you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book, audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.