Investing as a Team with Brian Davis of Spark Rental

There wasn't enough housing for professionals, you know, in that, in that neighborhood. And so, you know, we got that ground level perspective that we never would have gotten on our own. Right. But that's the power of having a community. That's all vetting these deals together.

Welcome to the Next Level Income show where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host, Chris Larsen. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website, Next Level Income.com. that's www.nextlevellevelincome.com. just click on the book link and I'll even send you a copy if you put your address in. On today's podcast we have Brian Davis of Spark Rental. Brian is a real estate investor, personal finance writer and co founder of Spark Rental with over two decades in the real estate and finance industries. He owns fractional shares in over 2, 000 units and regularly contributes as a real estate and personal finance expert for Inman, Bigger pockets real estate tipster and more. Along with his wife and daughter, he spends most of the year overseas living by his own rules. And he loves hiking, cooking, pairing wine with said cooking, scuba diving and occasionally surfing. Although not very well, he says most of all he loves showing others how they too can create their ideal lives through real estate, investing and lifestyle design. Brian, welcome to the show.

Chris, thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, no, this is going to be fun. I love what you are all about. I love reading about your background. I love the fact that you're recording this from Lima, Peru, Brian. So we're going to get into how that happened, how you made it happen and how your business winds into all that. But I'd love for you to share a little bit about your background with the audience before we jump into that.

Yeah, I'll keep it like, you know, 60 seconds or less. So I graduated college in 2003. Zero clue what I wanted to do with my life. Fell into a job working for a friend of my parents basically as a mortgage lender, subprime mortgage lender, you know, which was all the rage in 2003. Right? Yeah, but yeah, well, yeah, yeah, sort of. It didn't end well for me. But yeah, so they actually on the side of their subprime lending business, the two owners were hard money lenders. That was like their, their side gig. So they actually had me pretty early on start handling hard money for them. So you know, I was working with investors, right, like Flippers People doing bird deals. And this is again like early mid 2000s. Everybody's making money in real estate, right? I mean, it was one big party. So I'm like, I can do this too. So, you know, so I plow all of my saving into going out and buying a bunch of single family rentals with no clue what I was doing. Like zero clue. So needless to say, I lost my shirt in 2008 and beyond. I got straddled with over a dozen rental properties for over a decade that mostly just lost me money and cost me a bunch of headaches every month. I grew to just hate landlording, hated all of it. And when we moved abroad, my wife and I moved abroad in 2015, and I still had all these rental properties in Baltimore, where I'm from. And I realized then just how much I was subsidizing those terrible returns. So on paper they looked, they still looked bad, but they didn't look as awful as it turns out. They really were because I was subsidizing them with my labor and I was using my nights and weekends to go mess around with these properties. But having to pay someone else to do all that, when we moved overseas, I realized just how awful it really was. So anyway, I divested all those properties. Today I only invest passively. We can talk more about that. But that's the short version of my career. That's 20 plus years of real estate career in 90 seconds or whatever.

Condensed down. Yeah, and that's something that I often talk to investors about. One of the things that investors that are novice tend to do is they tend to discount what you just mentioned. And I think it's interesting that banks often, you know, or banks, they say, hey, Brian, we'll give you 75% of your rental income. We'll credit you 75% of your, of your revenue you have coming in. And the reason is because they assume you're going to need money for vacancy, you're going to need money for maintenance, for repairs and that sort of thing. And when, when it comes down to it, if you're an investor and you have, you know, let's say you have $10,000 a year coming in in revenue. Well, you probably need to allocate 10% for management. And if you're not paying somebody to do it, you should account for your time. Like you said, you probably need about 10%.

Yeah, 5% time is money, right?

Exactly, exactly. And that's the market rate. And then 5 to 10% for both vacancies as well as maintenance and when you add that all up, yeah, it may look okay on paper, but when you have to replace a water heater, like in our office downtown at H vac or we had a special assessment for the roof or, or whatever it might be, you know, those things, you have to account for those, which is what we do in the commercial space. But a lot of, a lot of novice investors don't do that on the residential side. So I think that's a really, really important point that you made there.

Yeah, you know, so I, much of my career been teaching people how to invest in rental properties largely because I made every one of those mistakes personally. And so I, I learned them all the hard but, but I did learn them eventually. Right. But novice rental investors, they have a tendency to assume no more than they actually do about the business of rental investing because they say, oh, I've lived in rental properties my whole life. I get the concept pay someone to live in a home. But there's a lot more to it than that. And the first thing that I do to try to shake people awake when I used to teach this is you from about the 50% rule that you can expect 50% of the rent to go to non mortgage expenses. And people first hear that, they're like, what? How could I ever make money? And I'm like, exactly, exactly, exactly. It's way harder to make money than the average schmuck thing like on rental properties. Like you can't just go on the MLS and think, oh, there's deal here, deer there, there's just deals everywhere. It doesn't work like that. So you know, a makeup call and you know, the kind of cold water splash in the face that people need when they first start investing in rental.

Propert it is, and there's another metric. It's, it's historically been about 30% cheaper to rent than to buy. So if you think about that, if as an owner you're paying, you know, that much more, you know, call it 20 to 30% more than owning or I'm sorry, more than, more than renting. Well, who's, where's that money coming from? So if, if you own the home and then you have somebody paying you rent and they're, they're saving money on rent, well, where's the profit in that? So you know, you have to buy right, you have to buy in the right market, you know, you have to manage it right, you have to buy the right size property. There's so many things that you got to get right. And I think, you know, all these things are important points here. Brian, talk a little bit about for our audience members that you mentioned, hard lending. Most people know, hey, I can, I can go borrow money from a mortgage broker. Most people understand that. But people hear about a hard money loan. What is a hard money loan?

A hard money loan is a short term fixer upper loan. Basically it's a purchase rehab loan that you buy if you're planning on flipping a house or buying a fixer upper to renovate and then refinance to keep as a rental. So they're expensive, they're quick and fast and relatively flexible and easy for you. Borrower side, you're going to pay at least a few points to the lender. So one point is 1% of the total loan amount. These are one time fees. You pay a close. You also pay some junk fees, you know, some, some flat fees that just pad the lender's bottom line on these deals. And then you'll typically pay anywhere from maybe 9 to 16%. Definitely not 9 in today's market, but.

1250. Yeah, 1216. That's, yeah, that's private market. Today's, in today's rent or today's market.

Right. But the high interest rate actually is not where most of the cost lies. Most of the cost actually lies in the closing costs. You know the points. Because these are again short term loans, you're only going to have them for four months, six months, you know, hopefully not, hopefully no more than six months, but you know, up to a year maybe. But we're just not talking about many interest payments that you're making. So the high interest looks bad on paper. It's really the, where they get you, that's where the real cost comes in. But yeah, then you either sell the house as a flip or you refinance it to keep as a rental.

Yeah. And you know, some listeners might be thinking, well Brian, why on earth would I want to pay 15, 16 interest rate and pay fees on top of all this? But if you're buying a fixer upper for $200,000, you're putting 100 grand into it and selling it for 400, you're making a hundred thousand dollar profit, you know that. You know, if you're paying $10,000 in interest and fees or even 20,000 in interest and fees, you know, that's still a good margin. And people that are doing this are running businesses in, in doing these and typically you probably know this, you know, they're doing, you know, sometimes, you know, one, two properties per week, you know, some Flippers that we work with are doing, you know, 50 to 100 a year, which is, you know, obviously impressive size business. Yeah, I love it.

But I mean, that's a whole, you need a whole business to support that. I mean, you need a big team.

Absolutely.

Or a lot of automation. Usually both.

Absolutely. So you and I went through a similar process where we managed our own single family rentals. I was, I was fortunate. We started buying a little bit earlier in the cycle and we, we still made money on the properties that we owned. But you know, to your point, I remember watching that, you know, five to 10 year period, we stopped buying in 2005, you know, and really in 2015, it finally started making sense to divest of these properties again. 2013, 2014, 2015. And it was challenging because, you know, all, all the, you know, he started to pay the mortgage, he started to deal with the tenants, you know, the issues that we talked about. So talk about your journey from being an active investor, like actively managing that, you know, to passive. And what did you do? Did you passively invest in single family rentals? What type of properties or what type of investments did you passively invest in?

Yeah, so I was, I was actively buying properties up until the time I moved abroad in 2015, and then we moved abroad. Like I said, it just, it was, it was too much work. It was too much money to handle that from overseas. But we had launched Spark Rental, my online business, in 2016, and we've done with it over the years. Initially, our vision was to offer a one stop shop property management platform for mom and pop real estate investors, pop landlords. We have done, we still offer that. But our vision has really changed a lot over the years. And one of the things that we started doing early on is teaching people how to invest in real estate, how to build a passive income. And we kept getting the same question over and over again from our course students, from prospects, just from our blog readers and podcast listeners. They kept asking, hey, can we just invest money with you guys? You guys being me and my partner, basically. And we kept saying, no, no, no, we can't do that. You know, I'm overseas and Denny lives in Philadelphia and she doesn't want to mess around with properties anymore. And finally looked at each, like the 150th time that someone asked us that question and we were like, well, what would it take to actually say yes? Right. Because, you know, maybe the market is trying to something here.

Yeah.

So, you know, we sat down and I was feeling a little out of alignment or out of integrity, you know, teaching people how to invest in real estate. When I wasn't actively buying properties anymore while I was living overseas.

Kind of like Dave Ramsey. Right.

So Denny and I sat down and we decided we were going to find a boots on the ground investor to partner with and then invite our course students to participate with us. Go in together on, we did a single family flip, we did a single family rental property. And that was all fine, but it was way too much work, right. For us. And we, we weren't actually making any money on, on that. We were just kind of doing it as a, as a service for our course students and some of our audience members. So we went back to the drive more like this is way too much work. Like, you know, there's a reason why no one else is doing this. Right. Uh, so it was around that time that I had discovered passive real estate investing. I had first started investing passively through real estate crowdfunding platform, largely to review them for our blog and for other people's blogs. I did some freelance writing at the time. I still do a little freelance writing just for fun and to add a little come floor so that my wife doesn't kill me with, you know, with the roller coaster of small business income. Um, so, you know, so I was personally familiar with bunch of different, all the major real estate crowdfunding platforms. And it was around that time that I also discovered real estate syndications, which most of your audience understands, but for anyone who doesn't, they're basically just group real estate investments where you fractionally buy into a large property like a multifamily apartment complex home park or whatever, and you own a very small piece of that basically as a private equity investor. So I turned to Denny and I was like, hey, we tried going out and buying single family properties to offer in our co investing club. We called it co investing. Going in as a group on these properties. And that didn't work from the back end standpoint for us. But I said, what about passive investing? What if we did some real estate syndication investments and offered those co investing? Because there are some, as you well know and as your audience probably knows, there are some challenges or some barriers to entry with real estate syndications. There's a big minimum investment.

Yeah. So let's go through those. So just, just to pause there for a second because. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ryan, that's a great point. So you know, a lot of our audience is familiar with the syndication, but if you're not a real estate syndication is Basically like investing with a team. So you have what's called the general partner and you have limited partners. The general partners are typically the ones finding the property. They're the ones operating the property or the investment. They're the ones putting their credit, their name, their money on the line for this and taking that upfront risk. The limited partners are just like, just like that name describes. They're limited in their participation. So like, if you're, you're investing in an apartment syndication, you are limited in your ability to say, choose the paint. You know, my wife's an architect, so she looks, she's like, why is, why can't we paint this? It's brown. Why don't we paint it blue? It's like, well, as a limited partner, you don't get to say that. Like, maybe my wife has a little bit of say, since I'm a general partner.

Hey, maybe we should be more than the average person.

Yeah, exactly. But is a limited partner, you can't tell the operator, hey, we should paint it blue. This is the type of carpet we're going to use, those sorts of things. And the nice thing is you don't have to worry about like that. You're also limited to the amount of risk that you have. So if you invest, say $50,000, you're typically limited to that $50,000 in terms of risk. Whereas, you know, if you buy a house or you're invested in something else, the bank can come after your other assets that are with that. So that's, that's some nice. You're also limited in terms of liability. So we have a lot of professionals, business owners, doctors, surgeons, they have enough liability when it comes to their professional careers. Why would you want more liability in terms of managing a rental home or apartment if you're in that space? So that's why we get a lot of investors that are interested in that. So that's basically how it works. General partners, limited partners. And then the nice thing is as a limited partner, you typically get paid first. And as a general partner, people may be saying, well, if you do all this work and you get paid last, what's in it for you? You get paid typically in equity in that back end. So it can be profitable if you do a great job. So it's typically performance oriented. So, Brian, you started saying, hey, let's, let's start to put resources together and put a group together to address some of now the challenges. So we talked about kind of the, the definition of a syndication. But what are some of the Challenges that investors face when they're looking to invest in a syndication that they may or may not know. Are you a high income business owner or professional earning 2,300,000 or even more a year but still feel like you're living paycheck to paycheck? Are you comfortable working until you're 65 or 70 to retire? Or do you want to achieve financial independence and live life on your own terms? You could join myself and Matt4 and learn how we both became financially dependent in our early 30s. We will teach you how to make, keep and grow your money, teaching you strategies to maximize your earnings, keep your income that you've earned through tax strategy and legal structures, and ultimately teach you how to grow it by determining your personal investing strategy as well as teach you how to analyze investments so you can grow your passive income to the point to live life on your own terms. Our coaching clients reliably do this in seven years or less. To learn more, check out our coaching program@nextlevelincome.com coaching that's nextlevelincome.com forward slash coaching.

So one of the challenges, the first one that people typically notice is that it takes a lot of money, right? It requires typically 50 grand, 100 grand, sometimes more, 250,000, a million dollars as the minimum investment that the syndicator or the sponsor will accept, the general partner will accept. So not everyone has 50 grand, 100 grand or more just lying around collecting dust in their checking account, right? So that's a barrier to entry. Although I would say that it's a similar amount that's required to go out and buy a rental property by yourself between the down payment, closing costs and cash reserves and maybe repair costs. So you need a lot of money. That's a barrier to entry. Another barrier to entry is that a lot of syndications, most syndications are only available to accredited investors, wealthy investors, net worth million dollar or more, not including equity in your home or high income. 200 grand for individuals a year, 300 grand for married couples a year. So again, that describes around 10% of the American population. That leaves 90% unable to participate in these and kind of perpetuating that stereotype that private equity is only available to the wealthy. Right. And the other barriers to entry are really about deal flow and finding syndicators who are trustworthy, learning how to vet deal. And especially I don't want to get too much into the weeds in SEC regulations and you know a lot more about them than I do. But the of syndication investments that are available to Non accredited investors cannot be advertised to the public by law. So it's really hard.

Look, so let's touch on that so we don't have to get too deep in the weeds. But you know, the, the general options that are out there for most investors fall into, you know, a few different buckets. But there's two main buckets. There's what's called a 506B in both of these fall under what's called Reg D or regulation D in the sec and basically they're exemptions. So if, if you're a syndicator, if you're an operator and you're offering this to investors, you have to follow the SEC rules so you don't become a security, which has a whole different set of rules that you have to abide by. So 506B means that you typically have to be an accredited investor. But there is space, typically about 35 spaces for non accredited but sophisticated investors, which is nice. The problem is, and this is what, it confuses a lot of investors because let's say we have an apartment offering and I, Brian finds out about it and he refers his friend to me and we don't have a preexisting relationship. And you know, this deal is, this deal is what's called in flight. It's open for investment. That investor without a preexisting relationship couldn't invest even if they're accredited. So that's, that can be confusing for some investors. Whereas 506C offerings, which are a little bit more complicated on the paperwork side, they allow accredited investors only. But those accredited investors can invest at any time in the syndication opening. And regardless if there's a relationship. The, the issue is for investors is they have to have a third party approve their accreditation status, prove that they're making $200,000 as an individual or $300,000 as a couple and, or have a million dollars of net worth, as you mentioned, Brian, not including their primary residence. So and again, that confuses investors that have invested in 506B that can what's called self a credit, which is they've checked some boxes, they've signed some forms, they've explained why they're sophisticated or accredited and now they have to go hire somebody or pay for a service. We cover that for our investors, but it's certainly confusing for investors that aren't aware of that. So if you want to learn more about that, feel free to email us infoxtlevelincome.com we can send you some resources and also share with you Our service. So you can become accredited if you like. But yeah, that's a big barrier entry, right. Brian is just that knowledge and really understanding. Because it's confusing, right? And if it's confusing, it's probably, if you're not understanding it, you probably shouldn't move forward with it. Right.

And you know, because sponsors, syndicators cannot publicly advertise 506B offerings or offerings that are available to non accredited investors. If a novice, non accredited investor trying to get into passive investing and syndications, how do you even find, how do you find the deals to invest in the sponsors who are offering them if they can't advertise them? So these are all barriers to entry. And Denny, my partner and I decided we were going to create investment club, like an old school investment club, you know, where people gets together once a month and they vet different stock investments or whatever. Except we are instead of vetting stocks each month and talking about different stock investments, we are vetting passive real estate investments, mostly syndications, although sometimes other things too, like notes and other stuff. So we get together every month at least once a month, sometimes twice. We vet different passive real estate investments. Every single investment that we vet together as a club is available to non accredited investors in addition to accredited investors. It's a core value of our inclusivity. We want this to be available to everybody, you know, middle class, you know, wealthy, you know, everybody. And we also make the investment very low again to keep it accessible to everybody. $5,000 per member is the minimum investment. And by merging all of our funding other into a single entity and investing as that entity, then each person can invest a small amount even though together as an investment club we are exceeding that higher minimum investment of 50 grand, 100 grand, whatever it is. So yeah, that's. We are doing the networking with sponsors for our club members so they don't have to, and introducing deals to them. But we're not pre vetting those deals because you know, we don't want ability, you know, when and if some of these, you know. Yeah, you go sideways.

Yeah, no, that's a great point. Yeah, you put the education and the structure in place so that investors can learn about the offerings that are out there. And yeah, so for a typical investment minimum is like $50,000 is often a typical investment minimum. We have 50, sometimes we have a hundred thousand dollars. But what's also interesting is, you know, in some of our investments we have, you know, call them bonuses or enhanced Equity splits at 1000-002500-00500,000 doll. What's nice is, you know, if you're writing a single check, Brian, your group can get some of those benefits, you know, whereas if you're a single investor, you know, writing a $250,000 check may be, you know, your entire, you know, capital allocation for five years, but here you could participate. So that's, I really, I love, that's why I wanted to have you on. I love, I love what you do. I love that you're, you're giving people that accessibility. And then for a sponsor like us, it's, you know, taking, taking $5,000 minimums. If we're raising, you know, 5 million or 10 million or, you know, sometimes $20 million or more, you know, it's almost incomprehensible to think how many investors we would work with. Whereas if we're taking $250,000 checks, you know, we can hit that, hit that number with, with much less legwork and do that. So kind of, kind of walk through, you know, what, what it would look like for an investor. So, you know, how does an investor work with you? Spark Rental, how does that work?

So it is a membership based investment club. My partner Denny and I, we are not sponsors, we're not syndicators. We know we're not selling securities. We don't get a, of any of the money that's invested. Otherwise we would be selling securities. Right. And we would, you know, the SEC would come knock on our doors. So instead we charge a flat membership fee for our investment club and members join and then they get added to our club email list and get invited to each meeting that we have. You know, again, we aim to meet around twice a month. Sometimes we've got deals, sometimes we have educational presentations. You guys actually came and gave an education presentation to our club last year, which was a lot of fun. And then we ended up addressing you.

Guys well and you guys asked fantastic questions and that's what really is impressive. Like the education and the, the not the group knowledge that you all bring together. Really, you know, it's, it's always nice when we work with investors that have the right questions, that ask a lot of questions, because we want our investors to be knowledgeable. It's a lot easier in the long run when we do that. And we were really impressed by that.

Well, you know, that's part of the, the benefit of our club is that you get a community of other experienced and inexperienced investors. You know, it's across the board. Not all of our investors are experienced. A lot of them have Never invested syndication deal before, but we have a lot of very experienced investors as well. So, you know, we get together on a, an online meeting, you know, zoom or a Google meeting, or bring in the sponsor for a Q and A about their, their latest deal and we get to all grill them together, right. We get to all ask questions and you know, inevitably, every single time there are people who are asking questions that never would have occurred to me personally. Right. So, you know, we get all of these different experience levels, all of these different perspectives. You know, we have a woman in our club who works in the insurance industry, so she's constantly grilling answers about, well, you know, how can you dare project only 3% increases for insurance premiums every year?

You know, when you're on the. Yeah, when you're on the coast of Florida or something like that.

Exactly. You know, so, you know, you get those, that benefit of the community of investors. You know, you also people from all over the country investing and in some cases all over the world. We, we did a deal, I think it was in Dallas last year. And I've been to Dallas. I don't really know anything about the Dallas market. Right. We had a woman who lived five minutes down the road from this apartment complex. So she told us all about it. You know, she. About the neighborhood and about, and about how there's, there wasn't enough housing for professionals, you know, in that, in that neighborhood. And so, you know, we got that ground level perspective that we never would have gotten on our own. Right. But that's the power of having a community that's all vetting these deals together.

No, I love that. And I've been part of Angel Investing Group here locally for, oh, I think I'm going to my, my 10th year with them. It's very similar. We have these companies that come in, they're looking to raise capital. They're typically early stage raises that we're looking at. And we have what we call it a sidecar fund. So we can invest in that fund and then we can bring in these companies and invest in them through the fund, but we can also invest outside of that fund as well. And I've been on some of those due diligence teams that are involved in the medical or pharmaceutical side or if there's a sales question, spending the majority of my career in that space or real estate, if there's something. We don't do a lot of real estate type investing. It's usually not part of what we're looking at in that, but it's Great. Because there's, there's things like a, a composting company that I ended up investing in that I was like, this is like I was composting at the time. I'm like, is this really going to be a good business idea? And it did great. But, you know, having other people that understood, you know, some of the business side of those things and, and being able to help on the operations really, really did that. So it's really cool what you were doing. And what's neat is you're. You're in Peru now. And I love, like, if you check out Brian's website, sparkrental.com you'll see a great picture of him with his daughter up here. And I love the fact that, you know, this. The passive investing, the investing journey, Brian, it's not just about making money, it's about experiences. So maybe you could share a little bit about how shifting to a passive investor has allowed you to live your life more intentionally.

Yeah, well, you know, like I said, I was spending so much of my time, I was spending nights and weekends messing around with those rental properties, living overseas now being married and being a father and running an online business, which is a ton of work. Right. I mean, I don't have time to mess around with properties anymore. I don't have time to mess around being an active investor investor anymore. I just want to write a check or send a wire and, and have it all done for me so that I can go back to living my life. Right. I mean, so I'll give you a tangible example last. It wasn't this past December, but the December 2022, I took what some people call a red month where you take a magic Marker and, you know, scratch it through the calendar for that month, your work calendar, and you're not available. You go and you, you have an adventure or, you know, whatever you want to do, and you're not available. You know, I, you know, I was still checking emails and trying to stay up on that, but we went and we spent a month traveling around Patanya in Argentina and a little bit, you know, the other parts of Argentina as well. But yeah, we spent a month hanging out in Argentina. So that picture on the website actually is my daughter Mimi and I down on a hike near the very bottom of the continent near Ushuaia.

It's beautiful. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, we got to do. I would never have been able to do that as an employee. Right. Or as an active real estate investor that's constantly having to run to my rental Properties every, every weekend. So when you invest passively in anything you can, you free up your time, you free yourself to live anywhere or travel anywhere and not constantly be on call for it.

I love that. I love that. And you know, look, one of the, you know, one of the things that we teach our coaching clients, you know, is, is time management. And my, my team knows if, like, I have, like, I actually have my son's schedule for the. What year are we in? The 24, 25 school year. So a year from now. And I've already put it on my calendar and when my son is off, my calendar is blocked off as well. And that's typically, you know, maybe it's spring break or it's Christmas break. And even my coach was like, man, you inspired me. He's like, you block. This was like, you know, months before Christmas. He's like, you're a black, you know, two weeks off for your Christmas break. I said, yeah, absolutely. He's like, I'm, I'm going to do the same thing right now. So it's, it's great when you, whether you can do a week or four weeks like you did. Brian. I did three weeks and rafted down the Grand Canyon one time. And it takes, it takes planning, it takes structure to do that. It takes financial wherewithal. So if you want to put those pieces in place, you can check out email coachingextlevelincome.com, we can share a little bit more about our coaching program. And Brian, if listeners want to learn more about what you offer at Spark Rental, learn about investing as a team, which I love that concept. What's the best way to get in touch with you guys?

Sure. Well, again, sparkrental.com you'll see our co investing club front and center there. Again, it's a flat membership fee and 100 refundable. So come join the club. Show up to a meeting or two. If you're not feeling it, that's not for you, just let us know, no questions asked. We'll refund your money. You can also email me personally. Brianparkrental.com I answer all those emails myself. It's not like I have a VA going through my inbox and answering people. So reach out. Don't be a stranger.

I love that. Brian, thank you so much, so much for sharing a little bit more about what you do at Spark Rental. Also how you've been able to live a more intentional life. And I encourage you all to check out his website, sparkrental.com thank you Chris.

Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.

Hey Chris, here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to gift you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book, audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.