The Investment Optimizer and a Big Update!

If you're ever thinking about starting a policy now, really, I've been in this career for 10 years now and I seen anything really close to as efficient as, as what policies are available to us as of a couple weeks ago versus really the last decade.

Welcome to the Next Level Income show where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host, Chris Larsen. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website, Next Level Income.com. that's www.nextlevelincome.com. just click on the book link and I' send you a copy if you put your address in on today's episode. We welcome back Blake Brogan of Money Insights. We have a big announcement regarding one of our primary insurers that we work with for our investment optimizer strategy. Blake is a wealth strategist whose role primarily involves interacting with current and prospective clients of Money Insights. And he's been in the financial services industry for 10 years working primarily with max overfunded life insurance strategies. And, and Blake and I are going to go into how I use these strategies, some of our clients are utilizing these strategies and how you can not only use these strategies as part of your investment flow, but also how you can create guaranteed generational wealth. Blake, great to see you again.

I'm back.

You are back. We're back. The country's back. Let's go, man. We are, we are fired up here today. And we got a lot of optimism as we go into the end of the year. You know, the stock market's been up, there's a lot of economic optimism. But we're here to talk about some positive things that are happening in the life insurance space with some of the companies that we work with. Before we do that, we have a whole section on our website. If you want to learn more about some of the strategies that Blake and I are going to talk about today, please go to nextlevelincome.com click on the banking link. That's nextlevelincome.com banking. You can see a webinar that Blake and I have done talking about our core strategy, the investment optimizer. And before I kind of share some of the ways that my family uses these policies, Blake, and have used them for 15 years now, actually just passed my exciting. I just passed my 15 year anniversary with our first two policies. Yeah. But if you would share a little bit about your background with the audience.

Yeah. So I've, I grew up loving Business. I was actually a caddy growing, growing up and you know, got to caddy for a lot of business owners. So I was always interested in that kind of stuff. And when I went to college, I, I looked for one of the only schools in the country at the time that had an entrepreneurship degree. So it was Grove City College in Pennsylvania. This is back 2009. They were one of the only schools that had entrepreneurship. And I was just, you know, into learning about all type of things, business. And it was actually one of my professors who ran e commerce businesses who told me about these strategies back when I was, you know, probably 19, 20 years old, and how he's using ins fund his businesses and like that. And so when I got out of college and started saving money, I set up some of these strategies for myself and became pretty passionate about it. And that's basically what I've been doing ever since.

No, that's, it's actually amazing because, you know, I kind of, I kind of learned the hard way. And a lot of people learn about these strategies. We're saying these strategies, these strategies. What are these strategies? So I think a good, a good quick overview would be valuable. Blake, Life insurance and specifically traditional or whole life insurance has become kind of like this taboo word because people were taught, oh, buy term, invest the difference. And we've gotten away from traditional whole life. That was really the standard about a century ago. And people like Ray Kroc, you know, the Rockefellers, there's Disney, a lot of people that are household names today help were helped buy life insurance for these things. And if you would share a little bit about what a traditional whole life insurance policy is, and then these, you know, max overfunded whole life policies that we're going to talk about today.

Yeah. So the traditional life insurance, you know, you've heard that term buy term and invest the difference. So that's, that's a pretty common kind of phrases Chris, you mentioned. So basically the idea there is that, hey, you need life insurance if you were to pass away, you're raising a family, you know, so that things can be taken care of. Term insurance is a much cheaper way to go than buying whole life insurance. So that's a thought and I would actually tend to agree with that.

Yeah.

However, the type of insurance that we're talking about is not at all really focused on the death benefit. So yes, there is a death benefit, but we actually structure it to have the most amount of cash, the policy. So as you put money into a policy, we're designing it to Build cash value as effectively as possible and minimize the death benefit. And then the really the key is. And you'll talk about this with your story, I'm sure. But the money doesn't go into the insurance policy just to sit and grow. Right. So a lot of the talking heads would be like why would you put your into insurance when it's going to get a 5% rate of return when you can invest in real estate or stocks that are going to get 7, 8, 9, 12, 30, whatever you're getting in your investments. People who utilize these high cash value life insurance strategies are not putting it in just to let it sit and grow, but rather storing your cash in this policy as opposed to a bank account. And then when you're ready to invest, you can access the funds here to go do the exact same investing that you are already planning on doing. But we can go into some more of the details here, but you're actually able to capture all the return in the policy and in addition to what you're doing on the investment side. So having it structured in the right way is really important. And part of why I'm jumping on here is to talk about some of the updates that the insurance companies have in relation to that.

Yeah, no, it's going to be great to kind of dive into the details there for those that are interested. But you said something important. So buy term, invest the difference term is like renting. So if you're listening, this is the first time you've heard about this strategy. What you can think about it as, it's very similar to real estate. So if you're familiar with real estate, you're familiar with the mortgage today. It's actually more affordable than ever, relatively speaking to rent versus than bot versus buying a home. Now why would you buy a home? You build equity. And when you build equity in the home, the amount that you borrowed goes down over time as you pay that mortgage off, the mortgage payment stays the same, but the value goes down as that mortgage mortgage is amortized and you pay it off. But the value of the house goes up and it compounds on the value of the house. And this is what we show in our webinar on the website, which I encourage you to check out. And that compound effect and that difference or that arbitrage is what creates a very powerful formula to do this. And what Blake is talking about, what we specialize in doing for our clients is we actually reverse what most agents do when they structure these policies. So instead of saying we're going to, we're looking for a million dollar policy. We build it around how much premium you want to put into the policy, which makes the policy more efficient, less costly, and it also maximizes and also grows the cash value much quicker. And when I learned about this, Blake, I was trying to figure out the best way to save for college for my boys. My older son will be 15 and I know it's been 15 years because since I had this policy, because I found out my wife was pregnant in October of that year, I took out policies for my wife and I and it was with the intent of having a guaranteed amount of money available for my, my son. Now I have two sons now, sons when they hit college. And this is one thing that we don't say in the investment space. We don't say guarantees, but we can say guarantees in the life insurance world. So today one of the big companies we work with, Penn Mutual, so they have, they have a guaranteed rate. So when we structure this, these policies, Blake, maybe you can go into that there's a guaranteed rate and then there's also another amount that policyholders actually get. Can you talk about what that is and the nuances there?

Yeah. So when we talk about putting money into life insurance, you know, roughly speaking, you're going to get about a 5% net tax free return every year. So if you look at it like an investment, again, it's more of a savings vehicle than an investment. But after all the costs are, are involved with the death benefit and things like that, every dollar you put in, it's going to earn right, about 5% on a tax free basis. How is it earning that? Well, the way the cash value grows is really, there's two main components. There's a guarantee that, so it's, you're, when you open up a policy, it's a contract insurance company and there will be contractual guarantees in the policy. So just like you mentioned, the, the, the cash value can never go backwards. In fact, it's guaranteed to grow. So the guarantees with the Companies range between 2 to 3.75%. Right now, Penn Mutual, most, most life insurance Companies are at 3% on their guarantee. Now on top of that, they also pay what are called dividends. So the reason that you get a dividend from this company each year is because it's a, what's called a mutual company, mutual life insurance company. And there's, there's a full of really good mutual life insurance, probably a dozen or two out there. And what happens is, is in a mutual life insurance company that it's actually run for the profitability of the policyholders themselves. So there's no shareholders in the company.

So as a company like, I think that's very important. You said a mutual insurance company is actually effectively owned by the policyholders. It's run, it has to turn a profit, otherwise it wouldn't, it wouldn't be in business. And how long has Penn Mutual, for instance, been. Been around?

Yeah, so a bunch of companies have been around for a long time. Penn Mutual is pretty normal. They've, they've been around since 1857 and they've paid a dividend every year since 1859. So you know, 170 years a row paying these dividends. And the reason they do that, to your point, Chris, is because you're an owner of the company, the profits every year are distributed back to the policyholders in the form of an annual dividend. So the dividend portion is not necessarily guaranteed. But again, they've paid it for 170 years in a row and you know, pretty safe to rely on.

Yeah, no, and you know, I think that's, that's an important facet of this because if you, you can't do this. Like I called State Farm when I learned about this strategy, who I have my homeowner's policy, my car insurance with, I actually worked for Farm and I talked to the agent, explained it and he said, sorry, we actually can't do that. We can't, we, we couldn't do that for you because we're not structured the right way. So it is very important that you work with the right company. And then it's also important that you choose the company based on your specific situation so you can maximize that cash value. Right?

Yeah, for sure. So when we're sitting down with someone, we're looking at, okay, well let me just use as an example. Any dollar that I'm eventually going to go put into any type of alternative investment, by that I just mean anything that's going to cash flow and to get into my policies first before it then turns around and goes into the investment. Because when I get my money into the policy, yes, death benefit created, but more importantly, I'm building up my cash value in there. Every dollar that I put in there is guaranteed to compound in a tax free for the rest of my life. And I have access and guarantees. And really the key is I have liquidity over that money. So as soon as I fund it within 30 days that money is available to me and I can either withdraw the funds. But most typically what we do is you're able to take a loan against it. When you take that loan against it, $500,000 in my cash value. And I tell the insurance company, send me $100,000, they're actually sending me their money, their hundred thousand. My money stays in the policy. So I go out and invest that $100,000. I get whatever return I was getting in the real estate or investments that I was doing. But I'm also that same 5% interest on the full hundred thousand in my policy in addition to my return in the investment, because I never had to take the money out of the policy. I'm just able to leverage it and create this arbitrage you talked about.

Yeah. And we show this in a graphic in our, in our webinar because I think it's a little counterintuitive. So if, if you're a financial person, you understand compound interest. But remember the example I gave, if you're listening, the example is you're paying down your mortgage at say, a 5% rate. But if your home is appreciating at a 5% rate, your home is actually appreciating year over year faster than the amount you're paying, because you're paying it down in a straight line fashion, and your home is appreciating in an exponential fashion. So it's a, it's a very powerful strategy. But what you're talking about, Blake, is even more powerful. So let's say I can go and I have maybe I'm. Let's say I'm a hard money lender and I'm lending my money to somebody at 12%, for instance, so I can take, I can borrow money against the cash value of my policy and say, 5%, and I can lend it at 12%, I can earn that arbitrage of 7%, and then I can pay that loan back and do it all over again. And this is what I learned. So I get these policies set up, my wife and I start building spec homes, and we borrow money. And I love what you said. We're actually not even taking the money out of our policy. We're using the cash value as collateral. And the insurance company wants their policyholders to do this because they need to earn money on the cash values that they have because they need to turn a profit every year. They invest in very safe assets, bonds, very safe real estate loans, those sorts of things. What is more safe than loaning money to the owner of a policy where that policy is collateral? And I learned about this. One of the amazing things is you can pay the loan back on whatever schedule you want. You don't even have to pay it back ever if you don't want to. And this might be counterintuitive to a lot of people, but the way I like to think of it is, and this is why people say a family bank or bank on yourself. This is the same strategy. When you own the policy, you actually become the bank. So if you're lending money, the bank, if a bank's lending money now, you're lending money, that loan is now an asset on your books. So if you own the asset on the books and you also have the liability where you repay it, it's effectively a wash. And this is where the strategy becomes so powerful.

Yeah. And even more specifically, if you have cash value in this policy, the reason that they're happy to own you that money. And yes, they're going to charge interest, however, they're not going to require that you pay because they have your asset sitting there. So for example, if you said, hey, I want out of this deal and you have a big loan outstanding, then the subtract what you owe them on the loan side less, whatever cash that they're sitting on that belongs to you, that's your equity essentially in the policy. So they're always whole. And if you were to pass away that money, they, because it's whole life insurance, they made a contractual guarantee to pay your family a large sum of money, so they would just subtract it off that eventual death benefit. So the insurance company loves this because their whole, they'll, they take no risk by loaning their policyholder money. But what it allows us to do as investors is have total control over when we repay the loan or really at the end of the day, even if we repay the loan, because again, we, we control this asset. And so it just, it, it makes everything flow very smoothly.

No, it's, it's fantastic. It's, it's as you said, you know, it's this, it's the cornerstone of what we do. And we try to flow every dollar through our policies first. And you and I just talked about this about a month ago before I, I loaded up my policies here for the year and then that money comes out and goes into investments if they're a good investment. Because if I'm earning this year, 5.75% was my net return inside these policies, which is a good solid tax free return. But I want to go back to what you said, Blake. I don't really think of these policies as investments. They are a tool. They are a vehicle that we use. And some of the reasons that I like it that our clients like these policies is because, one, they are guaranteed, so they're guaranteed to grow at a specific rate. Two, our families are immediately protected. So the example you gave, if we have a million dollars of cash value in a policy, we borrow that million out, and something happens to me a month later, a year later, and let's say a $5 million policy, the insurance company just takes that million, repays themselves, and the proceeds, the $4 million, would go to my family. So it's very flexible when it comes to that. My family's taken care of. These are also private contracts. So there's a lot of creditor protections. It depends on the state you're in. You know, what those protections can be. But they're private. There's creditor protections. There's a lot of advantages when it comes to that, and the flexibility is a big one. But also, one of the things that I like is that for my children, I can essentially create a student loan program. They can borrow money. Now, people would say, well, Chris, why not just give them the money? Well, I want my children to understand the cost of capital because maybe they have a better use for that money. Maybe they can get a student loan at a cheaper rate, or maybe they get a scholarship. So that's one thing to ask yourself. If you're out there, you have a covered L or a 529 plan, and you're maxing that out. What if your kids don't need that money for education? You know, what if you could help them start a business, you know, while they are, you know, working on getting into college or while they're even in college? So there's a lot of cool things that you can do it. Anything you'd like to add to that?

Well, I mean, I agree with you fully. I've got four kids. I've got policies set up on each one of them. But to your point, one of the big reasons I like that is I control all the. All the cards. So, you know, maybe they don't need it for college. Maybe they need it before college for whatever reason. Maybe they want a business with it. Maybe you want to save it for a wedding or a down payment on a house or whatever the case may be. I own the policy. I control the cash value. And then if I want, down the road, after they're 18, I can transfer ownership over to them. I feel like that's the, you know, in our family's best Interest or I can just keep it myself if they're going off the rails and I control it. So it's just, it's nice to have total, total control over, you know, what's happening with the asset.

Yeah. And another, this is kind of like an advanced strategy, if you will, but you can put this, you can put the proceeds into a trust and you can actually direct that trust to continue this strategy for your children, your grandchildren and create guaranteed generational wealth in a guaranteed process. And I don't, I don't know any other strategy that you can do that, that you can essentially guarantee generational wealth. Do you, are you a high income business owner or professional earning 2, 300,000 or even more a year but still feel like you're living paycheck to paycheck? Are you comfortable working until you're 65 or 70 to retire? Or do you want to achieve financial independence and live life on your own terms? You could join myself and Matt Foer and learn how we both became financially dependent in our early 30s. We will teach you how to make, keep and grow your money, teaching you strategies to maximize your earnings, keep your income that you've earned through tax strategy and legal structures, and ultimately teach you how to grow it by determining your personal investing strategy as well as teach you how to analyze investments so you can grow your passive income to the point to live life on your own terms. Our coaching clients reliably do this in seven years or less. To learn more, check out our coaching program@nextlevel income.com coaching that's nextlevel income.com coaching.

No, and, and people refer to this as kind of the Rockefeller method. If you kind of Google that, then you'll, you'll see a bunch of stuff on that. But yeah, that's what's set up is that as each generation, you know, passes away, there's huge windfalls through these death benefits. If you direct that money to start new policies on the next generation, even if you really screw things up financially, but you have this guaranteed death benefit that's eventually going to pay out, your, your wealth will exponentially compound generations, continue.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, frankly, it's, it's breathtaking when you look at the effect because this isn't like, oh, we double it. You can, you can 5x10x at generation to generation in a guaranteed fashion, but the generations can still have access to that cash value to go out and start businesses and do things. And I think that's a, that's very important. So if you're taking the time, if you're a frequent listener of the Next Level Income show, you're teaching yourself about strategies to achieve financial independence. You can encourage your children to do this, and this is one of the cornerstones of what we do with this. Blake, I'd love for you to share what's the big update that we have today? And let's talk about some other ways that our clients are using these strategies before we wrap up.

Yep. So really, the big update. So if you, you know, we, we've mentioned Penn Mutual, a lot of people let me even back up and say this. When we're evaluating policies as investors, what we're looking for is for the capital that you're putting into the policies, which company and which policy designs are going to grow cash value the best. And so that's where Penn Mutual has been a little bit ahead of the competition for the last decade plus or so. So a lot of people use that.

Lafayette Life policies with them.

Yeah, yeah. Lafayette Life would be another good company or massmutual or things, you know, that might be a company that you've heard of. But essentially what these insurance companies do, they, they give you the guarantee, plus they, they give you this dividend as well. So the dividend rate that you mentioned, 5.75, is what they've really, a lot of these companies have been at Penn Mutual specifically for the last six or seven years. So keep in mind that was during, you know, the 20, 20, 2021 when, when interest rates were very, very low, offering, you know, 5.75% dividend. Well, the good news is that they have now announced that their dividend is going up to, to 6%. So every person who owns a policy with Penn Mutual, and frankly, most insurance companies are, are making a jump up this year if they last year. So all of the original projections that you were looking at, if you own one of these policies now, they're going to pretty significantly outperform what we originally project, the time where the policy went into force. So now you get the guaranteed interest plus a larger dividend. And again, those dividends just compound on each other every year. So big update for all policyholders. Whether you're looking at a, an old policy or a new policy, they're going to have higher dividends, therefore higher cash value growth. The second big update I want to touch on here is that really, insurance companies typically come out with new products every two to four years. So they're constantly competing with each other, trying to make more efficient policies that, yes, they can be profitable as a company, but they want to be able to attract more policyholders as well. So Penn Mutual had the same policy for the last couple years. Well, they just said, hey, you know, we're kind of going all in on this strategy of accumulating cash value and policies. We're already the leader, but we want to make these policies even better. So what they've done is just as of October 1st, and I know, Chris, you sent out an email to your, you know, your list, but, but they have new policies that just came out, you know, probably about two months ago now. And what they've done is really just lowered the cost on, on the contribution. So there's always costs going into the policy, especially in the first couple years. They've even lowered those costs even more and they've made some tweaks on how you can design some of the riders and things like that to make it more significant. So, so if you're ever thinking about starting a policy now, really, I've been in this career for 10 years now, and I haven't seen anything really close to as efficient as, as what policies are available to us as of a couple weeks ago versus really the last decade.

No, I love it. And if you want to learn more about one the strategy again, check out our webinar nextlevelincome.com forward/banking or click on the banking link. You can watch a webinar where Blake and I detail kind of exactly how this strategy would work. And if you want to see how this would apply to your situation, feel free to reach out chris@nextlevelincome.com chris nextlevelincome.com and just say I want to learn from about the investment optimizer strategy and we can coordinate a time with Blake and I and we'll wrap up here. Blake, I mean, so again, I've detailed how, you know, I set out initially to utilize these policies as a savings vehicle for my children's college planning. Also, we've used these to fund spec homes that we built. So we would borrow money out, we'd build a spec home. We use that land as collateral. And this may be surprising to some, but the banks don't know that we have these loans out against our life insurance because these are, these are private contracts. So I just called the call the life insurance company. I say, hey, I'm going to borrow $100,000. Or I go online and I click a button. And within days or sometimes hours, depending on what you have set up, that money is in My account. And the bank says, great, you have this cash in your account and it's, it's, there's, there's no approval process. It's, it's as simple as that. I know that other clients have used this for lending to start businesses or as collateral for businesses. We talked about utilizing them for, you know, cash flowing real estate and those sorts of things. Blake, what are some other, other stories that you have of clients and how they've utilized these policies?

Yeah, you've, you've hit on a lot of them. I mean myself personally just doing some private lending, you know, anytime you say, hey, I can, I can get a much better rate than 5%. Now's, now's the time to, you know, dump the money into this private lending deal. I'd say 90 plus percent of our policyholders are actively involved in some sort of syndications. Right. So they're higher income earners. If you're investing in some of the deals that next level income is putting out or, or other type of cash flowing investments, once you kind of understand the math behind it really, it really becomes a no brainer to try to capture the dollars into the policy first before they go into those syndications. But to your point, the really cool part is there's no qualification purposes when you need money saying, hey Mr. Banker, look at all my financials. You're not saying, am I going to qualify for this? Basically you're just saying, here's what bank account I want it deposited into. Yeah, I can, I call it your one week money. Right. So it's not necessarily as liquid as a bank account, but within a week you'll have those funds. You can do whatever you want with it. And then also you control the repayment schedule back to the policy as well.

Yeah, and I think it's, it's great for an emergency fund. So if you say, hey, I want to keep, you know, six months, a year, two years of expenses in an emergency fund. I was just working with my stepfather and his investment advisor said, oh, we need, we want them to have a year's worth of cash on hand. Well, it's nice to have this cash on hand earning, like you said, 6% tax free in your policy, which you can access. I know we have other clients that we've worked together with and they use this because their business needs collateral or their business needs a certain amount of cash or collateral on hand. You know, sometimes, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars or even millions of dollars and they're able to utilize some of these strategies. For that as well, you can do key man insurance. So, you know, if you and I start a business together, we can have these policies on each other. Now why Is there a reason, Blake, that if you have a business, would you want the business to fund these policies or would you want to fund them personally? Like, are there any advantages to or against that?

Well, a lot of people will ask that question when they're getting it set up, should I have my business fund it? And typically the reason they're asking that is because they're saying, hey, can I get a deduction on the front end?

Yeah. How great is that, right?

Yeah, yeah, of course, if that was possible. And, and there are, I should say there are ways to do it. It's almost never in your advantage to put the money in post tax. So from a taxation standpoint, money typically goes into these policies post tax, all the growth you get is tax free. When you access the money, that's tax free. And when the death benefit passes along, that's income tax free as well. So it's kind of like a Roth IRA from a taxation standpoint. But in terms of owning it in a business typically will. People will own it personally. You can lend it to your business. So, you know, there could be a reason to own it within the business. Really. It's where you're storing up the capital before you go on invest. Typically we'll use that entity. And most of the time it's, it's as an, you know, you as an individual will be owning the policy and then, but there's also ways to have like trust as beneficiaries. And you know, there's some advanced strategies there. Most of the time you're owning as an individual, but you can then lend the money to a business.

Yeah, and that's, that's another great point. So you can actually lend it and then you can deduct that interest and utilize that, which is again, talk to your accountant. When you look at these strategies, everybody's situation is, is a little bit different. But if you want to learn more, I talk about in chapter three of my book, your opportunity Fund. We have it on the website at the banking link. Nextlevelincome.com banking check out the investment optimizer. Or again, feel free to email me chris@nextlevelincome.com and say I'd like to learn more about the investment optimizer strategy. And I'm always happy to hop on a call, little strategy session, explain exactly how I've used these strategies myself. And you know The. The light bulb really went off for me, Blake, about 10 years ago, and I was sitting there with our estate planning attorney, and he said, well, you, Chris, you and you and Jess, you need to take some things into consideration with the size of your estate. And he. He told me the number, and I said, wait a minute, like, that's not our net worth. And I was a little confused. And he said. He pointed to my life insurance. He said, you have whole life insurance. This is permanent life insurance. That's part of your estate, that's part of your net worth when you die. And I never thought of it that way. So if you think about insurance as something that's temporary, that's just for you. What I encourage you to do is think about it like you said, Blake, like the Rockefellers. If you think generationally, this actually becomes part of your family's net worth, and it's a very powerful force multiplier. And if you utilize it in the way that we've been talking about today, it's not either or. It's. And you can actually do both. You can do this strategy and you can continue to invest, and effectively, these policies will pay for themselves. And what Blake and I do is we set up these policies so you're not stuck paying into them till you're 100 years old. You can actually have a period where you pay for. I don't know what. What's a common period that you see set up for these?

So as we start conversation, a lot of times we'll start with, hey, what does it look like if you. For seven years and then never after that? But because of how in typical life. I should go back and say, typical permanent life insurance, you're paying into till you're. You're basically dead. Right. So if you have, like a mortgage.

Like 30 years or so. Yeah.

If you have a grandparent or a parent who's like, man, I'm stuck in this policy and the premium are going up and things like that, that's not at all what we're talking about. We put in way more money than we need to for the insurance portion upfront. So the insurance costs are very low relative to a typical type of structure. But when you do it that way, you know, we can get policies fully funded within three or four years. You could fund this thing for three years, never fund it again, get all the benefits that we're talking about. That being said, once you start to see what's happening, after year three, I'm putting in a. And I get a $25 immediately available and I can go out and and borrow against that and go invest or you know, and those numbers just continue to compound over time. Oftentimes people want to keep putting money in. But yeah, you're not at all on the hook for a very long period of time.

This in your grandfather's insurance strategy. So yeah. So if you want to learn more again nextlevelincome.com banking feel free to reach out to me. Blake, I know you got to run. Thanks so much for sharing some updates and some of the ways that we've seen our clients utilize these strategies and these policies to help expand their family's wealth. Hey Chris, here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to gift you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my My Book audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.