The Business of Coaching

The business of coaching. Hey, Polk County, we're back for another episode of the Elevate Polk podcast. Hoping you're having a wonderful week. My name is Chrissanne Long, and I'm here again with my co-host, Nate Kendrick.

I like that.

Isn't that nice? Yeah, that's your walk-up announcement voice.

It's good to be back, Chrissanne. It's good to see you.

Yeah, it's been a bit. We've had a— we had a week off and we're just kind of slow rolling back into the reality. And we have a wonderful guest with us today. Welcome to the show, Clark Freed.

Thank you, Chrissanne. What a pleasure it is here to be with you and Nate. Great to meet you.

Yeah, nice to meet you as well.

I haven't met before, so, you know, great to say hi.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Love the Elevate Pork Podcast. Looking forward to today.

Yes. So I'm excited to have you join us, Clark. It's actually very like special exciting because we've known each other for quite some time. And somewhere along the line, I don't remember what year exactly it was, but I finally made a decision to hire you as my coach. And so you've been my coach now going on 3 years, maybe 4.

Uh, boy, I lose track of the years. Uh, you know, we know they go by so, so quickly. Alexis was just asking me how long I've been in Lakeland and it's like, oh man, I've been here 30 years.

Wow. Yeah. That's like a lifetime.

Yeah. It, things go by so quickly. So, uh, yeah, we've been working together 3, 4 years.

Yeah. And, and so I want to go back to— we're going to get to your personal story here, but I wanted to give the listeners a kind of an explanation as to like my backstory with Clark and why I feel like this is going to be an awesome conversation to tune into. Um, but when, when I finally, when I finally was like, okay, well, one of the things I know I needed to do as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, was have an accountability plan and a person that was going to hold me to it. Being in business with your husband isn't always the best accountability plan because you've got to also manage the marriage and the relationship and all of those other things. And so while we spend a lot of time talking about the company and goals and things that we were trying to work toward, needing to have somebody that can kind of be on the outside looking in provided an amazing amount of insight for me personally, and then has also allowed us to kind of stay on track in some of the areas that we're focusing on in our business. So one day you did a workshop on goal setting. It was toward the end of the year or the beginning of a year.

Yeah, it was right around the Christmas time. We did a, well, after that, it was actually January. We did a goal setting workshop for the year. And yeah, that's one of those things, goal setting seems so easy, but it really does so hard.

And it's so elusive if you don't have somebody to help you do it or help you keep on track. And so that's why I— you, you impressed me with the way that you did the presentation. You're a very affable, kind person. I really enjoyed kind of the way you walked us through that workshop. And so from that point on, whatever year, we haven't decided, um, I've had you as my coach. And so we, we meet every other week and we just do check-ins and find out where I am with all the things that I've got going on and all the plates that I'm spinning. And it's been, it's been an awesome experience. So I thought I wanted to bring you in on the show because you you can speak on the coaching side of business that is so important, I think, for all of us to really understand the value of having a coach, but also the business of being a business coach, right? So like, you're an entrepreneur who makes a business out of coaching other entrepreneurs. And so, and I know we'll get to this, but I know you have a coach. And so we're just going to kind of use the topic of, of coaching in the business world as kind of the, the foundation. Is that cool with you?

Uh, excellent. And, uh, and yeah, it's, it's such a pleasure to have gotten connected with you, uh, and, uh, to spend these past several years working together. It's a real pleasure.

So as a side note, Clark asks me, "What do I need to do to prepare?" I'm like, "Nothing, because this is gonna be like talking in your sleep, so it's gonna be easy." So I'm excited. So I'm gonna start. Let's go ahead and, you've been in Lakeland for 30 years, but you haven't been a business coach for all of that time. So let's kind of do the backup of how you arrived to this point, but starting wherever you would like to in the journey. When you came to Lakeland or even before?

Well, yeah, my background, I spent 10 years serving on active duty in the Navy. Yeah, during that time, there's a variety of other things that I did. Technically, I also spent time as a leader, leading people, leading young men and women, young sailors. And a lot of that is coaching them in the types of things they need to be doing each and every day in their job, in their business, the business of what they do every day, but also in their lives. After leaving active duty, moved to Lakeland, Florida here, got on and worked for a Fortune 500 company here in Lakeland for about 20 years. I had a great career there and spent a good amount of that time coaching people. I worked at a director level coaching the people that I worked for. I had a team of about 40 people, but then I also spent time with the businesses that were involved and suppliers and being a part of the larger Fortune 500 company. Fortune 500 I worked for. I spent a lot of time working with those businesses, helping those businesses understand what they needed to do to get better, to be a better supplier and be able to serve our company better. And that— those two things together, working with the team I worked with as well as with the manufacturers and service providers that I worked with, really caught me into the idea of coaching and really liking to coach people. Now, I didn't realize it, but as I was looking at a transition out of corporate America into something different, I just needed a change in my profession. And it was actually my wife that said, "You need to be a coach." Shout out to Barb. Exactly. You know, I'm thinking, okay, I'd been a baseball coach for many, many years. I'm thinking I can't make money being a baseball coach. She says, no, no, a business coach. And I'm like, what's that? And so we started doing some research on it and lo and behold, it was right up the alley of the way I've spent my time and the passion that I had to really help people and help small businesses, small and large businesses grow and get better at what they do to serve their customers. So that's where I started on the path.

And that is fantastic because there's so many layers that we can unpack, unpack in this discussion. Part A is the business of being a coach and kind of the learning curve of starting something that you really, when you started, didn't really know what that was. So you kind of learned as you went and, you know, forged your path. The other layer for me is the going from a corporate experience in their professional life to then becoming an entrepreneur. I wouldn't say later in life, but, you know, as a second step, like, that's— you did your career, you probably, you know, got to a point where you were vested or you were able to retire, and then it's like, now what am I going to do? You know, I've done all these things, now what? What am I going to use that experience to do to help me kind of, I don't know, stay on my toes, right? And then the other is, um, just the inspiration of the, the young leaders that you were inspiring in the Navy. So any one of those three, and probably all of them, need to be kind of where we want to go in this conversation. And I don't know if there was anything in his intro that you want to kind of start us off on, Nate.

Yeah, I would be really interested to know what that shift was like going from corporate America into business coaching, and where did you start?

Oh, it was, it was exciting. Uh, one of the things I, I recognized is I need to learn. I understood finally only my wife, through the help of my wife, understood a little bit about what business coaching is. But then I needed, knew that I needed to learn more about what that is and how do I bring that to the marketplace. I searched online, I searched a variety of areas, got connected with a variety of coaching organizations, and I ended up choosing and selecting the John Maxwell Team. Dr. John Maxwell, I'd been a student of his through some of the books. Some of the programs that he has done over the years. He's had some great leadership books out. So I had known who John Maxwell was and been interacting with his organization and then realized and recognized he has a coaching program. So that's where I got certified. I connected with the John Maxwell team and got certified as a coach through the John Maxwell team. It gave me a lot of, skill sets. It added to my toolbox, not just from the experience that I had and the hands-on that I've had in the past, but what does it really mean to be a coach and how do you go about coaching people? So putting those two things together, and then while I was kind of working through the John Maxwell process, I also started asking myself, where do I learn more? About coaching. So I started making some phone calls to coaches and I connected with a guy out of Atlanta and we just had a great connection and I hired him as my coach. So he coached me in my early years as a business coach and actually he's still my coach today.

Oh, wow.

I believe in the coaching process so much that Even though I have been coaching businesses for a number of years now, I still feel like it is very value-added for me to have a coach to help me continue to get better. And each time I get on the phone with my coach, you know, we talk a little bit, but my goal is to always get better at providing value to my clients. And that's what I use him for, is a sounding board. Hey, here's what's going on. How do I get better and how do I continue providing more and more value to my clients.

And I, I will say, go kind of thinking through the coaching process with you, I would venture to say I'm not your most traditional client. And when we first started coaching, I remember distinctly a conversation when I kind of explained to you what I needed, which was different than what you were thinking we were going to talk about in the coaching experience that we were having, right? And so what I, I wanted to know is you know, as you— did you, did you go to your coach about me?

Oh, oh, that's a, that's a loaded question, Chrissanne.

You don't have to answer it, but that's what's going through my mind. I'm like, oh, he probably had to go to his coach to talk about, all right, I've got this new client and she's not the most traditional as far as how all of these things that she's got going on, but I really want to help. And so I just Just kind of a funny side.

Yes, I did.

See, I know you.

And yes, Chrissanne, you were not a traditional business coaching client, but through the working we had together, I've, you know, very honestly, I've grown a lot in the business that you and I've done together. And what I learn is I grow in every relationship that I have with every client.

That's the beautiful part. Like, okay, so we've been working in this professional relationship for several years. And so, as I've shared on a few shows recently, I became a coach myself and, you know, watching you and seeing how you've grown and build your business and, and, you know, understanding, um, when we, when I've talked to you about lead generation and, and building a website and doing some list building and things like that, you kind of were like, well, I know I need to do that, Chrissanne, but right now I'm too busy to start thinking about adding more people onto my, to my list. So that that sends a message of, you know, you're doing a good job, you've built a good book of business. And so that's just, you know, a testament to the great things that you do. I don't know if you— I would like to kind of spend a little bit of time talking about what kind of— this is a dual show, right? Like, it's putting a spotlight on you as a coach, but it's also like, I want to educate our audience on some of the things that you are finding, especially during, you know, I don't know if you could even say post-pandemic, but, you know, as we're coming out of all of these challenges of the last couple of years, speaking on resilience and speaking on, you know, how they're adapting to this changing marketplace, what are the biggest challenges that people are coming to you with? How are you kind of— what's the marketplace sounding like these days?

Wow, that's a mouthful. The marketplace is in disarray. I'm going to say, and it's a lot of it's depending on where you are. Are you— I've got clients that are working nationally or internationally as suppliers of product and the supply chain right now is broken. I mean, it's just downright broken. I hear it's getting better from the construction market, that lead times are getting shorter, product is becoming more available, but some of my clients are still experiencing significant shortages. And so if you don't have raw materials, have parts to build what you build, whether it's computer chips or lumber, your business is gonna suffer.

Mm-hmm.

So how do we then combat that situation if I can't get parts, if I can't produce, if I can't deliver on time? And I've got clients who are really working through those scenarios On one hand, the marketplace, it wants to spend money. You can see all the trends in retail sales are way up right now. People have, a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people have disposable income. They're ready to spend money, but in a lot of cases now, suppliers still can't supply. Dell Computer, for example, wasn't able to deliver in most of their business products and the businesses that they support, they went through about 6 months of not able to deliver. Yeah, that's unprecedented. And so I think that's one of the huge difficulties that our businesses are having right now that are dependent on other people and the supply chain. So it's a huge problem.

And you're dealing probably with a little bit of that as you're going into the, you know, the boutique food world as far as what the ingredients are, what you can get, what you can't get. How has that been for you guys lately?

Interesting, to say the least.

Interesting.

He says this with a smile.

Yeah, yeah. A lot of things that was being said really resonated with me because What happens is you have to think about the fact that if the distributor gets sick or the drivers get sick, or if the people that are producing the product get sick and they're— and I'm talking about the baseline of like one ingredient that can break the supply chain in pieces. So, you have to think about lead times and— but I think throughout this process, there's been a lot of grace and understanding because it's not just happening to one person, it's happening to everybody in every industry.

But, but that doesn't help when you're looking at your payroll and you're looking at your overhead and you're thinking, if I don't get these products to sell, I'm not going to be able to, to make it through whatever quarter you're in.

For sure, for sure. And I think, I think part of it is kind of turning it on its head and saying, okay, where's— at least for me, it's like, where's the opportunity in this? There, there has to be some type of silver lining, some type of opportunity to be able to to come from this, right? And I think part of the opportunity is, is banks are being a little bit more generous, is people are being a little bit more generous in realizing, okay, we understand that this product's not going to be here on time. We understand completely because it's happening to us as well. So one—

oh yeah, no, no. Well, I wanted to just see if Clark had a response as far as like, all right, so what are the solutions? What are the strategies? What are the suggestions that you're making to clients when they're coming to you with this? You know, you can't control how quickly you can get it, but what can you do?

Exactly. You know, there's a, there's a three-legged stool in the supply chain that says delivery, price, and service. And if I can't deliver and my prices are going up because of lack of supply chain, what I can control is service. I may not be able to, to, get the product there on time, but I can certainly let my clients and my customers know, here's what's happening, here's why I can't get product, here's when we expect it to be there, and continue being communicative to our clients and to our customers, continuing to treat them well. People are giving you— Nate, you're right, people are giving a lot of grace these days. They understand. But at the same time, that frustration is starting to build in the supply chain.

And you hear it, you hear it out there with, you know, references to, well, can I get anybody to do it this year? You know, like when it comes to like a project, like a home services project type of thing, because, you know, supply chain and wood and materials and all of that, but also in the delivery of the project, like I, the demand has gone way up and the businesses haven't necessarily been able to find the workforce. So it's the supply chain and the workforce. Workforce as well that are causing clogs in the workflow for most of these businesses.

One thing I would want to know is how are you advising businesses that have a lot of intricate, detailed steps in their business, a lot of intricate ingredients or a lot of intricate materials?

Yeah, we've got to look for— part of it is looking for alternate suppliers. Can we find— and boy, I could go off into this one, this subject crazy, but Many companies are, you know, they have their preferred suppliers. They have who they want to buy from. And if that's not available, you know, looking for alternative suppliers. I've got, you know, one client has been just very diligent in searching, you know, all over nationally and internationally for the products that they need, the components they need in just finding non-traditional sources of supply is one way of doing it. Can we find substitutes? And find ways of substituting things. So there's a couple of ways. Can we change our specs a little bit to make it a little bit easier for us to, but that only goes so far. When you need lumber, you need lumber.

Yeah.

Styrofoam isn't gonna work.

Yeah, exactly. Or cardboard.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it's communication with your clients or your customers and making sure they know, continuing to be polite and keeping people informed. Frustration's going to go up, yeah, but we've got to work controlling what we can control and understand that there's certain things we're not going to be able to control no matter how hard we yell or scream. It's just not going to happen.

And it seems like businesses have gotten better from my observation of managing expectations. I think probably at the beginning it was, we don't know how to handle telling somebody it's going to be 6 months before they get their couch or whatever it is that they're buying. The consumer was unprepared to hear, "What do you mean it's going to take that long to get my couch?" And so now, as time has passed, everything's sort of coming out of this with everybody giving each other more grace, but also us realizing that we've got to be more proactive about advancing what we need, right? Like, and if we need— if we know that we're 6 months out, then we're ordering 6 months out, which makes it a lot harder to ensure that we're going to have the sales to match the order because we're trying to get the the materials in time for us to do the thing. And if we don't sell, especially if there's some things that are, um, that can expire, you know, then you've got the challenges there and on top of it.

And that's not— and that's the thing I think about too. It's not just that, it's just, you know, when you— when you're— when your orders are going out late, that means your invoices are going out late. That means you get paid everything later, you know. So if you're net 30, maybe it's net 90 or net 120.

Yeah.

And now you've got to manage payroll.

Correct.

Which is another challenge now.

Absolutely.

Managing the payroll and getting your people paid.

Do you have any stories, success stories, things you've navigated with a client recently or something that, you know, can kind of help illustrate how coaching helps in these times?

Partly it's really helping business owners off of the ceiling. It's really helping people understand there's not a whole lot they can do about some of the things. Let's start identifying what you can control and what you can't control. And let's focus energy and time on what you can control. And let's put our energy there. It still means it may be tough to get payroll. We're thankful for some of the things that have taken place through the government agencies and being able to give out some money. There's still some of that money available. I've got one client who's going for an additional EIDL loan here this week. So there's still money available for some folks. And so seeing what may be available to be able to help people through a tough time, but also we've gotta focus on the things we can control, not the things we can't.

Right. I think that you can get out of control in your head, you know, in that headspace of awfulizing or, you know, anxiety or worry or concern. So, you know, having the coach to kind of bring you back down and say, okay, well, what, you know, this is what you can control. Let's start talking about that. Let's figure out, do you have different places that you can search? Do you have any contacts that you can, that you haven't heard from or talked to in a while that you might want to reach out to? And, but now you're starting to think in more of a productive and a forward way, as opposed to, you know, throwing your hands up and like you said, talking them off the ceiling into being more focused on managing what they can do to keep the business going. Right. I mean, that's, that's really what it boils down to.

Exactly. Chrissanne Long, that is what it boils down to, is helping our clients be able to move forward, uh, with whatever their business is and not get stalled and, and stuck.

Yep.

I think what I really like that you mentioned a little bit earlier is talking about the fact that to, to realize that you can't control everything, especially when there's a lot of moving parts in your business. And with everything that's going on, sometimes it's like, oh, I want— I I need to have this process flow like this and realize, hey, it's just not flowing like it right now. And you have to look at what you can control. And you mentioned it, you said it well, if the product's not coming on time and the pricing, because, which is really resonating to me, the pricing's having to change. What you can control is service and how you're working with your customers and talking to them and being there for them and letting them know, hey, look, just being honest and saying, hey, not going to sugarcoat things. We're 3 weeks out or 4 weeks out or whatever that number is. And we, just to, you know, kind of pull you guys in my world a little bit, we had a conversation with one of our distributors just recently about that, and it was just us, them being real with us, us being real with them and saying, hey, this is where we're at. And it said, okay, good. And we were able to come to an understanding of this is not how it's always going to be, but this is where we're at currently.

Yeah. And being able to manage those expectations. On the front end as opposed to, you know, well, sorry, I forgot to tell you that, you know, that, that, that's not going to happen or we're not going to be able to meet that deadline. You've got to be able to— that's something you can control is that communication of this is normally when we're able to deliver, but now based on this, it's unpredictable. So we're going to say, I can't tell you a guarantee, but I can tell you that it's going to be at least, you know, 3 weeks later or whatever that may be.

Yeah, absolutely. And workforce is another issue. You know, even now here in Florida, we've got businesses who are struggling because they've got 2, 3, 4 people out sick. And in a small business, that is crippling.

Yes, it is.

It really is.

And it's an emotional baggage crippling as well, you know, 'cause you're concerned about the people. It's like the worst thing work needing to get done is one issue, but then the concern for their family, because they're part of your family. And so you, you, you know, you really need to get, you know, production done, but you also need to make sure that the people are going to be okay. And your concerns and worries in that regard, you know, add to the emotional weight of what's going on inside of the business at any given point in time.

What are some processes that you've advised businesses with because I'm not thinking about just the, the businesses that have employees that are sick, but I'm also thinking about the fact that with everything that's happened, some individuals don't necessarily want to work because of what the government's been able to provide for them. So how have you advised businesses to maneuver during this time as well with that?

Hiring is a, is a challenge right now. It really is. I've found several clients that, that are having good success with using using hiring agencies. Just because they're doing some of the pre-screening and they're seeing some of the questions to ask and being able to see, are some of these candidates really honest? Do they really want to go to work or do they not? I've got one client who set up, they had 3 or 4 interviews set up for a position set up for Monday. None of them showed, none of the candidates showed up. Not one. Well.

And that's another thing out of your control. Yeah. And yet what's the solution?

Yeah. And that's where I'm not saying an agency's the perfect solution, but it may be something to add to your toolkit. If you haven't used, gone with an agency, they can help you navigate that situation of, are these, are these really employees who are truly wanting to go to work, or are they people who are just checking the block off so they can send their unemployment information into the government? Yeah, just to— that's down to brass tacks.

So that makes me think of conversations that I've had with businesses where, you know, a recommendation like, all right, well, have you considered going with an agency? Any agency, not recommending an agency, just saying, have you talked about a staff— you're thinking about a staffing or even a, um, temp-to-hire situation? And So how do you handle resistance? So, oh, I did that already and that doesn't work. Or, you know, just the coaching side of things. It's not like you— every recommendation you make, they accept and they go and they ride off into the sunset into victory, right? So when someone gives you kind of already a bias or some sort of, you know, contradicting your suggestion, how do you work through that to help them?

Oh, I love those opportunities to be able to talk with business owners on that. Scale. Because bottom line, you know, a coach is not your boss. A coach isn't there to tell you what to do, not at all. A coach is there to help you evaluate your options, evaluate ideas, and help you evaluate. And if in the end you as a business owner decide, I've tried that, I don't want to do it again, I certainly, as a coach, I certainly can't make you I'm just putting it on the table as something that may have helped other people. It's an option that I think would be worth considering for you. There are some upsides and some downsides to it. The downsides, one of the downsides is it does cost more. Absolutely. There's a fee. They need to get paid. But the upside is, I think the upside is worth it. Even I've had some clients use temp to to temp to perm. And that can work really well. Yes, it costs a little bit more. Yes, you may not have as much control. One of the things I find with entrepreneurs especially, we're control freaks.

Uh-uh, not me.

Yeah. Yes, true. And sometimes we need to get over ourselves a little bit sometimes and give up, we have to give up some of that control.

Well, and I think that's a step when you decide to hire a coach. I mean, that was one of the things I had to think about on my own was, am I allowing myself to be helped? And sometimes we're not. We're not in a position to allow ourselves to be helped because we think we have it all figured out. Or the other side of that is we don't want people to know how little we have figured out. And so we're afraid of somebody coming in and understanding that maybe we don't have all the answers. And so then that's a vulnerability that we don't want to show. So, yeah, there's a lot of considerations when it comes to starting that dialogue. But I know that that trust has to be built. And so, if you're making a recommendation based on— for me, what I understand when I'm sharing challenges of mine with you, it's you're asking me to kind of answer my own question a lot of times. That's generally how you kind of guide me. But in the situation where I know that I've heard a person or two or three kind of the same complaint kind of coming up over and over and over again. And I know I've told you the story of the dog and the neighbor. There's a guy sitting on a porch. So Nate, I'm going to tell you, this will be the first time you get to hear this story.

Okay.

There's a guy sitting on a porch with his dog. He's rocking on his rocking chair and he's smoking his pipe. And there's a neighbor walking in front of that house. And that dog is howling, like just, argh, you know, just in pain, howling loud. And just the man's nonplussed, rocking in his rocking chair. Just doesn't even notice the dog's sitting there. And the neighbor stops, he's like, "Your dog is barking, dude. What's wrong with him?" And the man's like, "Oh, he's sitting on a nail." And the neighbor's like, "What do you mean he's sitting on a nail?" "Yeah, he's sitting on a nail right there, just sitting on it." Neighbor says, "Well, why doesn't he get up?" Man says, "It must not hurt bad enough." And so it's the story of complaining and whining and moaning about something because you're sitting on a nail, but you're not willing to do something about getting up and moving off the nail to solve that problem. And so in the coaching environment, sometimes you have to delicately balance the, "Hey, I'm hearing that you're sitting on a nail. Are you ready to move? If not, I'm here to listen and let you vent or share your complaints or your challenges." But then at some point in time, it's time to move, right? To make a change.

Absolutely. It's one of the things in the coaching business, in the industry, we need to be able to listen and we need to be able to be compassionate and empathetic to situations, but at some we've got to work to see movement. And if we don't start seeing some movement, you know, then it may be time to just to end that relationship because it's not being productive for the client. You know, the goal for any coach is to help their clients be productive, be more productive, and achieve what they want to achieve, achieve their goals. And if they can't move forward or aren't able to move forward for one reason or another, they may need another coach another coach or they may need something else, but it may not be me.

Yeah. Sometimes it's the getting out of your own way mindset that so much, so much is— so going to what's, what determines the success or the failure of an entrepreneur in general is not sometimes the market or the marketing or the product or the delivery or the customer service. Sometimes it's just themselves getting in their own way and not be— and maybe sometimes being a little too stubborn to see that. Than making decisions that, or not making decisions, choosing not to make a decision about things that need to happen. And it's just kind of my observation from my vantage point.

Well, you know a lot of entrepreneurs, you've interacted with a lot of entrepreneurs, you've seen a lot. Chrissanne, in your years with Lakeland Business Leaders and now Bridge, you've seen a lot of entrepreneurs in and out the doors. And I think you have some great insight into the small business community.

I have a question. I'm curious because I know that many entrepreneurs can be kind of stubborn. Well, the majority of them are pretty stubborn when it comes to being stuck in their ways and how they want to do things. How do you deal with that? An entrepreneur that's kind of stuck in their ways and they have, you know, every, I feel like every entrepreneur has a certain type of personality trait, but we're similar in that stubbornness of, no, this is how I've always done it. This has worked. But you know that they're trying to grow.

It's not just entrepreneurs, it's any business leader. You know, We think we have all our own answers. We think we know enough. And I'll be very honest with you, I think part of this comes with age. I was just talking with one of my clients this morning, how when you're 20 years old, you think you know everything. And the older you get, I'll be honest, the less you know. Now we can talk about why that is. But it's not that we actually know less.

Anybody who's older than 30 knows why that is, right?

We really don't know less, but we feel like, because there's so much else out there. And so yes, we've got to learn to get out of our way. And I think part of it, our job as a coach is to help our clients see the light through through examples of other clients, through experiences, through stories, and sometimes simply through, hey, give it a try. What do you think? Let's just try this and see if it might work. And somebody who has already taken the step to hire a coach or to talk to a coach, they know already that something has to change in their business.

Yeah.

If their business is exactly where they want it and everything is going exactly the way they had intended, then there's no way they're going to hire a coach. They don't want to hire a coach. They're not going to need to.

Right.

But if there's change that needs to take place in their business, if there's change that needs to take place to achieve the goals they want or the lifestyle that they want, want in their business and/or their work-life balance, a coach is a great way to do that. And they recognize something's gotta change. And so for me, some of that is gonna be then recognizing where are they willing to change, where are they not willing to change? And some people are gonna have certain reservations of this is so critical to my business, I don't wanna change it.

Yeah.

You know what? That's fine. And I've made some mistakes with some of my clients trying to get them to change in areas that they're completely unwilling to change because it's so critical to their business. That issue is so critical to their business that they may not be as productive as they could be, may not be as successful in a certain area as they can be, but it's, and I found this the case with some businesses, it is a trademark of their business. And sometimes it's a particular service level. It's a level that they're going above and beyond. It's taking time, it's taking energy, it's taking expense, but it's a trademark for their business. And it's one of the ways, as I get to know their business more, that their business grows.

Yeah, those are the non-negotiables, you know?

Exactly.

And being able to understand and know those and then leverage them, right? Like, these are the non-negotiables. We're not changing this. This is— yes, I realize I am spending 2% of my margin to execute at this level, but I'm going to do it anyway. So now I need to figure out where I'm gonna make that 2% up somewhere else because I'm not making that sacrifice to the customer service or whatever that may— that trademark might be. And that's a huge awareness on a side where you're looking at it from a, gosh, but you could make 2% more. You know, you're talking about these things and what if you just change this one little thing? Nope, uh-uh. And it comes across maybe as stubborn or it comes across as quality control, whichever way you wanna look at it, it's still working with that person given where they are and what they want to achieve and not necessarily, you know, 'cause it's not your business. I mean, you're coaching them, but it's still not your business.

Exactly, and learning the difference between being stubborn and it being a valuable piece of their business. It's part of my job then to understand that. Is this a critical piece of their business that is a trademark of their business? I've got a couple of clients I can think of right off my hand that we went round and round with some things and they were just unwilling to change in that area. And I finally realized, you know, this is such a hallmark of their business that they don't wanna change it. And it's best that they not change it. Even though you're right, they could make a little more margin, they could save themselves some time. In this case, it was really saving them some time and being able to get out of the office a little bit sooner. But nope, it was so key to their business that they needed to keep it.

Yeah. Wow. And those are the stories that you also share understand and know, like you mentioned, work-life balance. And you're, you know, you're coaching executives and leaders in organizations, and they've got to go home and manage their families and their wives or their husbands or whatever it is that they've got to do and still manage to be a successful company. And so, it's really not all just business coaching. It's kind of a little bit of that life coaching and, you know, making sure you're helping them make decisions that are going to help them be be successful also and happy, you know, because at the end of the day, I'm going to admit that I don't see work-life balance being something that is a core value of mine. So I am okay with where I am and not having work-life balance. But if I told you that I wanted you to help me find work-life balance, then I'd also have to be prepared to make some changes because I currently don't have it. And that's okay. I work with Craig. We, you know, we, we don't really— I don't think we've ever had a conversation where we've we just need to stop talking about business at home. Like, we've never gotten to that point because we're okay with when that creeps up, you know, that client over dinner, you know, we're having a conversation and it just goes back to that. But as you, as a coach, you might come in and say, Chrissanne, I really think you need to work on work-life balance. And I'm telling you, no, I'm good. From the outside looking in, you might go, ooh, you know, that's not necessarily the best, you know, thing. Well, it's good for us, you know, and then you can enjoy away working on the other things that I need help with.

Well, and you know, that's a great example, Chrissanne, because, you know, in the time you and I've worked together, I don't think work-life balance has ever come up as a subject, as a topic, because I know the way you and Craig work together, and it's just not an issue. And I've got other clients, you know, work-life balance is a huge issue.

And I will admit too, hearing me say that and knowing the critics and knowing what people, you know, I'm a people pleaser, right? So a lot of the things that I try to work through and past and on are the things that I'm like, I need to acknowledge who I am and embrace who I am and not try and pick apart who I am because somebody else is probably going to do that anyway. But there's somebody probably listening to this who is a work-life balance expert and they have all these answers about why what I just said is completely wrong. And they're just like, oh my gosh, she's, she just doesn't have it figured out. She doesn't know what she's talking about. And I'm like, but that's me. Like, I don't need to listen to this person. I need to listen to what my guideposts are and inside of my soul, not, you know, this other expert. But I think in the entrepreneurial world, we do this whole comparison thing, and we, we see somebody talking about something and we think we need to want that. And there's like this anxiety or this, this feeling that we feel have to fill this, fill our hole that we don't even think we have. Like, but suddenly somebody told us we have this hole and now we've got to do something about it, and it's really not even a thing for us as individuals.

—It isn't because I've got a variety of clients and there's some of them that are fulfilled, I'll say the word fulfilled, working 6 hours a day, 4 days a week. And other people, other business owners, that would drive them nuts to work that little. They're fulfilled working an 80-hour work week. And if that's fulfilling for you, and following your purpose in life.

And you have the stamina for it. Great, fabulous.

Now, not everybody is either in one of those places. More people are trying to, there's a lot of people trying to find that right work-life balance. And that's one of the things we work on.

And you hear like people picking Elon Musk apart, like he doesn't have work-life balance. I mean, I think that he finally put a couch in his office so that he could sleep there and he's okay. And who the heck am I to tell Elon Musk whether or not he's got it figured out or not?

Yeah, I think he works 160 hours a week.

Yeah. I mean, it's just ridiculous. Yeah, that's insane. But it works for him, right? And so as a coach, I think that's, you know, an understanding the entrepreneurial experience, because I think what I was wanting to unpack in that is that feeling of if I hire a coach, they're going to want to change things about me that I don't want to change or that I don't think I need to change. And the reality is, if you have a good coach, The coach is going to work with you on the things that you want to work with on and help you achieve whatever your goals are and not impose their goals upon you. And there have been times when we've gotten into conversations on our coaching sessions and you have said, "I'm sorry, I just stepped across the line." And I'm like, "I don't think you did," but you're aware of that. Like, I don't want to impose what my opinions are into your business. Business direction or goals. And so I think you're very in tune with that.

It's definitely a balance being able to work with folks and understand, you know, there's things about them that they're not gonna change and they don't wanna change. You know, coaching is all about the agenda of the client. Some of the things I tell Chrissanne, I tell her, and it's true, every time we meet, I have an agenda. Agenda written down for what we can talk about. However, our session starts with, "What's your agenda?" And that's any good coach is gonna start with, "What's the client's agenda? What is on your mind? What do you wanna work on today?" Now, it never happens, but if it were to happen that Chrissanne said, "I've got nothing." Well, then I've got an agenda from our previous conversations of things we can talk about. We can discuss, but we always want to work on the client's agenda. This is about serving the client and helping them with whatever their agenda is. And you know, one of those agendas, I just wanted to share this, one of those agendas is simply listening. People at the top, people who are business owners themselves, whether that's a small business or a large business, they oftentimes don't have anybody to talk to because they can't share their frustrations, their concerns, their worries, or their dreams with the people in their business because they might scare them. And many times their spouses are sick of hearing it.

Yeah. Truth, truth. Craig can probably testify to that.

And the dog will continue listening but won't give him much feedback. Mm-hmm.

Which is a good thing sometimes.

You don't want any feedback. Exactly. And that's one of the areas I think a coach can come in and be that sounding board, that listening agent. I can think of a couple clients right now that, you know, I spend 90% of my time listening to the frustrations, to the problems, and even through the conversation, they oftentimes solve their own problems simply through the discourse of being able to speak verbally and verbalize what's on their mind.

I would say that is a very good characterization of what value you bring to me as a coach, is getting my thoughts untangled, uninterrupted. Like when you were saying that, it's like I, I generally don't get to get a thought out in my relationship with Craig or even with the team sometimes because they're trying to read ahead, they're trying to go to the next thing and I'm just still trying to figure out what it is that is in my head. And so allowing, you know, the voice to just come, the thoughts to just come through untangled, they're tangled and then hopefully they get untangled as they come out, are, is invaluable, you know, an invaluable service that you provide. Well, thank you. And I really just wanted you to be able to come on Clark and share, A, you know, your journey, your entrepreneurial journey, journey, the challenges of which, you know, are, are great right now as far as how you're helping the clients through, you know, navigating, you know, all of these challenges that they're, that they're going through. But also just shed light to entrepreneurs listening that, you know, coaching is a good option if you need, you know, somebody that's going to listen to you and help you through those challenges.

So that's what I was going to ask. What would you suggest would be the process that a business owner needs to go through to decide whether or not they need a coach in the season of their business that they're in?

Great question. Um, my recommendation to people is talk to one. Nearly every coach that I know is going to be able to— is, is going to be willing to have an initial session or a sit-down or meet and greet for no charge. It's free. Um, and we can sit down and spend 30 minutes talking about your business. And connecting. And I recommend people to call 2 or 3 coaches and meet some of them and see how the connection is because such an important part of the coaching relationship is the connection. Being, you know, we've talked about it in Lakeland Business Leaders for years. People wanna do business with people they know, like, and trust. So you wanna, if you're a business owner, you searching or might be considering a coach, you certainly wanna be able to get with somebody who you can work at building a trustworthy relationship with, somebody you like, somebody you can get to know. Those are critical. You know, Chrissanne, we started off this time, you know, Chrissanne mentioned that she's now now a coach. And I remember the conversation we had when she first— and I think Chrissanne might have been a little apprehensive to tell me, I'm going to become a coach.

Yeah, a little bit. Well, no, I was just apprehensive in general about the idea of becoming a coach. All of the things just kind of made my skin crawl. But it was part of it was now potentially becoming a competitor, right?

And what did I tell I told you, I am excited about Chrissanne becoming a coach. There are not enough coaches out there. There's more business opportunities. There's more businesses out there that need help, that can use help. The cost of a coach is very minor compared to what you are putting into your business. A small investment in a coach can be a big investment in your business. And I'm excited Chrissanne's walking down that path. I'm excited to walk down this pathway. And no, I don't consider it a competition thing at all. It's the abundance mentality. Yeah.

That's a huge part. I mean, God, that's a whole entire other episode. It is. And I think that's what the alignment of the coach and the client needs to be in that sense that you could hire a coach and spend all of your time complaining. Training and feel good, like walk out of there and say, hey, I feel good, because you found a coach that will allow you to just complain. And that's, that's a-okay if that's what you want, that's what you need. I would suggest maybe hiring a counselor or, you know, somebody else for that role. But in, in the world of coaching, what you're going to find is that there's an abundance mindset, and that's what helps us to grow, like to see what we're capable of, not to the absence or the void or the negative sides of things. Because when you want to move forward, when you want to advance forward, it comes from believing that you can and making the steps that are going to require you— you are going to be required to take to get there. And that's what you need. You need an encourager. You need it, you know, somebody who can see abundance and not, you know, concerned with lack or, you know, scarcity. But you also need a person who can listen and And I think you do a great job of that, Clark.

Well, thank you very much. You're welcome. It is a pleasure working with you. And boy, it's the best job in the world, in my opinion.

Well, maybe next to playing right field for the Tigers. Or being Barb's husband. Oh. It's not a job though.

It's not a job. That's an adventure. That's wonderful.

That's wonderful. Well, anything as we wrap up, Nate? You want to land the plane? Yeah. Yeah.

I thought it was— this is something that I don't think is talked about enough. A lot of people, when they see success, they don't realize the sacrifices that have to be made and the things that you just have to come as a business owner and say, this is something that is an integral part of my business that I need to have. Yeah. A lot of people can't see behind the scenes. And I think this is a lot of the behind the scenes that happens in business. And I really like what Clark talked about specifically in the fact that when business owners are going through struggles and situations that they need a sounding board, they need someone to talk to because a lot of times they'll go to their spouse who isn't their business partner, which I've done that before, and just kind of spew a whole bunch of information that they don't necessarily want to hear. They want to talk about about other things.

Their lives or your lives together, right?

TV show you wanna watch or what our future looks like, not the business headaches that you're dealing with. So I really thought that was important that you spoke to that and I really appreciate you talking about certain details that a lot of people just don't hear as business owners and it's helpful. Yeah. It's extremely helpful.

As you were talking, Nate, I'm sorry, I have to do this. I love, love, love, there's a new show that I am a huge fan of that everybody needs to watch. And I am saying it, and I'm screaming it from the mountaintops. And if you haven't watched it already, then you better queue it up and let me know. I will pay the $4.99 for your Apple TV+ subscription because you've got to watch Ted Lasso. Okay, I will pay the $5 for you because you can watch the whole 2 seasons in a month. I mean, $4.99 is all it's going to cost you to get it, and then you can cancel. Um, but that, that show Lasso is a perfect example of a coach, but also mental health, and also being able to keep, you know, some of the challenges that you're going through, um, requiring to have that person, that sounding board. So Clark's taking out his phone so he can take a note about Ted Lasso. Um, everybody that I know needs to watch Ted Lasso. You will not be disappointed. Um, it's fantastic. And I'm assuming, Nate, you haven't started watching it yet? I have not. Okay, we'll put it on your list. Tell Jess, tell Jess. You want to talk about what we want to watch about— what we want to watch? Chrissanne Everyone says Ted Lasso. Okay, okay, definitely, definitely. So one of the things he says, this is just a little piece of insight to wrap it up. One of the things he says is, do you know who the happiest, what the happiest animal on earth is? No. You don't know what the happiest animal on earth? The happiest animal on earth is a goldfish. You know why? Because he forgets everything in 5 seconds. And you're like, that is brilliant because we hold on to stuff, right? We don't let it go. And so the goldfish lets it go. It's like, boom, okay, I'm happy. And so they're happy because they can let things go. So a little bit of wisdom for you from the Elevate Folk Podcast as we wrap up. Ted Lasso, watch it. Love it. Send me a message and you can thank me later. All right. Well, thanks for being here, Clark.

My pleasure. Thank you for asking me. Great conversation.

Well, that's a wrap. Thanks for listening to this week's show. If you'd like to help us get the word out about this podcast, check out the post on our Facebook page, share it, or better yet, comment with your favorite part of this episode. We're looking forward to learning what you loved about this conversation. And if you have some ideas for upcoming episodes, we'd love to hear from you. We'll see you next week, Polk County. Bye!