Building a Million Dollar Company WITHOUT Cold Emails with Christi Loucks — Because Growth Matters

Hello and welcome to Because Growth Matters, a podcast for sales professionals, business leaders, and growth-driven teams. I'm your host, Daniel Robus, and we're here to rethink how we lead, coach, and grow in today's fast-changing sales landscape. Today we are joined by Christy, owner and founder of Hardy Sales, Reaching buyers earlier, closing deals faster. Good morning, Christie.

Hello, Daniel.

Thanks for joining us this morning. I know it's quite early. It has taken us 18 months. I know you've had a baby since we first started talking. I know you're in Denver. You've gone through a couple of changes. Let's just start with where you are. Denver, Colorado. It's a long way from Johannesburg. What's the coolest thing about living in Denver?

Oh, the mountains, for sure. I mean, the fact that, you know, just the fact that I can be on the trail in 20 minutes has been my sanity for the last 15 years, actually, that I've been here.

So, I'm so jealous. I know that Lance Armstrong lives close by, Boulder's there, all the athletes are there. If I had 24 hours to spend in your neighborhood, What would you recommend us see or do?

Okay, well, funny you say our neighborhood. We live in a historic, uh, neighborhood in Denver, just about a mile. I don't know what that is in kilometers, but a mile outside of the, of the downtown. I love our neighborhood. It's all old Victorian homes. A lot of people have been here in the neighborhood for like 30 years. So as it's grown and developed, my favorite thing about my neighborhood though, I have to say, is we have a little local grocery— it's a grocery store, it's 5 blocks away from our house, so we can walk up there and, and, you know, get groceries and whatnot. It's ridiculously expensive, astronomically. I don't even want to know how much I've spent there over the last, you know, 5 years that we've lived here. But here's the thing, it's also a bar, so you can go in and grab a glass of wine, do your, do your grocery shopping, but then you can also just hang out. Like On a Thursday night, it's Thursday burger night and it is packed with people, the grocery store. So it's this amazing little like community that they've built within our actual little neighborhood. And we go up there, we see people we know, we say hi, and it is the absolute best thing in our little pocket of, of Denver.

Oh, I would love to come to Denver, Colorado, big sky. I've done a couple of trips to the States, but I've never been lucky enough, but Let's speak it over ourselves. Now, you are now the owner and founder of Howdy Sales. You've been on quite a journey to get there. Where did it all begin? Where did you go to school? Have you always been in Colorado? How did you get to today?

Well, I was raised in St. Louis, Missouri, so middle of the country. I went to school in cornfields, basically a small state school. In the middle of nowhere, no, like Northeast Missouri. And after that, I, I, you know, decided I wanted to live by mountains, so moved away from home to Colorado in 2010. And I took the first job that I got in Colorado. Of course, as a, you know, 22-year-old, it didn't matter really what I was doing. It was more about the fact that I had a paycheck and I could move. I worked for Raytheon, which is the big defense contractor that at the time owned the US Antarctic Program. So I actually worked for the US Antarctic Program and was able to like, in my first job, go live in Antarctica for 2 months doing human resources of all things, which is wild. But I spent like 18 months in that job and, you know, it was fantastic, like segue into Colorado and the working world. And I met someone like a colleague there that ended up moving to a company called Ping Identity. So, which was in the tech software space and I ended up going, you know, she referred me in and I went over and got a job at Ping Identity in, again, human resources. So totally not sales at all, but at Ping, I ended up being there for 7 years and I was able to really shift my career at that company. So I started in HR. I was like the lowest, one of the lowest paid people. And I know that because I had access to all the compensation reports so I could see myself like, at the very, very bottom of the, you know, compensation. And I had the opportunity to work with our new chief revenue officer when he was coming, coming in, you know, to the organization. And he wanted to do a sales kickoff event. And I think because I, I ran our onboarding, like our company onboarding program, they were like, oh, Christie's organized and can like do programs and events and just figure this, you know, SKO thing out. And so I started working with the chief revenue officer there. He kept pulling me into meetings post-event, and I finally said, okay, well, like, this is fun, but I work in HR. So if you want me to work over here in sales or sales enablement or whatever, like, we need to make it a job because I can't like bounce back and forth. Yeah, he carved out a role for me. I ended up starting the sales enablement program at Ping. By the time I left I guess it was at that point, like 5 years later, you know, I was running a team of 13 sales enablement professionals doing like internal training, partner training, and customer training with the tech as well. So that was really like the catalyst, I would say, for getting into the sales world. From there, I did a couple other startups and then decided to go the entrepreneurial route and take all my skills. Into my own hands.

We're going to get back to that sales enablement because it's something that a lot of people were very skeptical about, but it seems to just have taken root and grown. You've got Hardy Sales. And, you know, when I look at the website, I understand where you're going. But if you had to explain it to my grandma, what do you do and what do people pay you for?

We are paid to help companies generate sales opportunities. I don't like to be bucketed in with the traditional lead generation agencies because I think those are often focused on activity and not results. We are very focused on doing the prospecting, but doing it really targeted, really well. We're looking for signals that show our message will be relevant to the people that we're reaching out to instead of just blasting the email cannons at people that, you know, we're hoping and praying might be interested. And then, you know, we really care about making sure that any meetings we help our clients generate actually convert into true sales deals, not just meetings for meetings' sake.

So you helping folks create predictable lead streams that turn into pipeline that they can convert. Why do you think so many people struggle to do this, that they need to outsource this? Why do you think we're so bad at it?

Sometimes it's you, sometimes it's not you. In the tech world and software, especially B2B SaaS, everyone's just so inundated with noise. People get a million cold emails every day. Most of them land, land in spam, but we're just kind of bombarded and hit over the head with you know, new tech, new services, new options. And I think it's really hard to stand out in that noise. Prospecting in general is just, it's difficult. It's like, you know, the metaphor I like to use is prospecting is like standing on a street corner yelling at people as they go by to see if they wanna like get a cup of coffee with you, right? Like you have no idea like really who they are. You don't know if they're actually thirsty, like, or if they want coffee, if they've been caffeinated, like, You're just shot in the dark asking a question, and that's what prospecting is in many cases. So it's difficult. I will say like you do have to have a strong offer. You have to have some like market fit with whatever you're selling to even have a chance at, at prospecting, right? If it doesn't resonate, no one's going to be interested. But I think these days it's just really difficult. It takes a certain level of technical sophistication. And additional strategy beyond just saying, oh, this is my ideal customer profile. I'm going to reach out to everybody I can find that hits that mark. It's more nuanced these days.

You know, we put it in a box of sales hunter when we get there. You've just touched on something about we've got to listen for signals. We've got to see. What do you think is misunderstood about being a hunter, which is the role that, that you're playing for people?

Oftentimes we see that leaders expect one, immediate results from prospecting efforts. You know, it's like, oh, well, I want to do a 30-day trial and see what results you get. And I'm like, I'm not going to probably get you anything in 30 days. Like, I've just got systems and processes set up within 30 days. Prospecting is a long game no matter what you're selling. I would say that's That's one thing we often talk in depth at, uh, or about with our, with our prospects is setting expectations around timing. And then the other thing is I think that there's a very, and I don't wanna sound like negative, I, I just think that we're, we're in this shift from understanding it's not just about a target buyer, a target persona, a, you know, buyer profile. Like a lot of the things that people kind of start with to say, okay, this is my go-to-market motion. This is who I want to reach out to, company and person. Like it's in a nice little pretty packaged up box and this is what we're doing and it's going to work. And I'm sitting there going, well, it might, but we also have to be like, we really have to go for those relevance factors. So you can send a message to somebody that fits nicely in that box, but if they're not looking, if they're not trying to build awareness even about the problem that they have or the solutions available. Then it's going to be harder. So, it's not just about targeting your ICP, it's about finding your ICP, but then isolating the part of your market that's actually looking. And that's where we start seeing prospecting really work. That sort of education is really important.

And do you think founders and CEOs understand modern prospecting? You know, we've built this amazing tech. We've got this tech that everybody wants. Why aren't they breaking the doors down? You've spoken about noise. You've spoken about the rate of change in here. Why are CEOs like oblivious to this and why are they so hard on the sales guys?

I think it's twofold. And I will admittedly put myself into this bucket. CEOs think that what they built is the best thing ever. They think their baby's the cutest. And oftentimes when people go to the market and say, hey, do you want this? I mean, truthfully, it's like self-centered and it's okay because you spent a lot of time building what you built to solve a problem that you care about. But it's often very inward facing, like, why don't you want my amazing product or service? It's great, it's fantastic. And it's less about what the buyer is actually going through or looking for. So I think oftentimes people get hung up on that and get frustrated then when, you know, their messaging isn't resonating. But I also think that the, you know, I see a lot of CEOs or CROs like very stuck in what used to work really well and trying to apply like a volume approach to that same playbook. So, If you were sending 1,000 emails, it's like, you know, 5 years ago and you were getting 5, 10 meetings out of that. Fantastic. It worked back then. That was COVID time. Every— was the world was a different place. You know, what worked back then was a point in time and people kind of see that same, that success and wanna replicate it, but it doesn't work like that anymore. So they think they can just pour volume into the mix and okay, well I used to email 1,000 people, now I'm gonna email 20,000 people. And accordingly my results will scale. It doesn't work. It doesn't work.

Shout louder! There's a lot to unpack there. I mean, I remember somebody saying to me, sales is a numbers game. So pick up your Rolodex and phone because every call is one closer to your next appointment. And now it's almost email. Every email is closer to your next appointment, but there's no application of skill, experience, expertise, anything in there that's, as a friend and founder of Growth Matters, Alan, says, you can cast as many times as you want to, but if the lake's got no fish, you're never going to catch anything. Let's talk about the positives now from a hunting focus, what you're doing for customers. What are one or two habits you believe that makes a hunting rep unstoppable in today's environment?

I think a level of resilience, first and foremost. You got to know how to take, take the no and either ignore it, be like, all right, well, you know, that one didn't work or pivot it into something new and different. Right. So the people who are good at this take the nos, take the feedback. And often there's a lot of them. You know, I've been told to F off. I've been told that I was a— oh yeah, on cold email, 100%. Oh, I've been told I was a bloody parasite once. That was a good one.

Wow.

That's just, you know, people that way. It is. I— my favorites, my favorites are the ones that like take the time to respond with like a very extensive message about how annoying you are. And I'm like, why? Why? You could have just deleted this email if I was that annoying anyway. So I think that level of resilience is really important. Like you just have to, you can't be deterred by any of that. And you have to have the, the, the creativity and I think humility to say, okay, well that didn't work. Let's try a different angle. Like let's keep innovating. Let's keep iterating on the way that I'm positioning this offering or the way I'm speaking to prospects. And you really can't ever give up on that. Like it's constant tweaking.

So it's that noble purpose that you're fixing a problem that they do have. So you have a right to call them. It's not that you're doing something wrong there. You've spoken email a lot. Email versus phone. Give me a feeling.

It depends. It depends. No, it can't depend.

It can't depend. Come on, make a choice. Come on.

I think that In today's world, I still am a believer in the written message, whether it's email or LinkedIn. I prefer LinkedIn quite honestly, because I think that actually when it comes to written messages, it's a more relationship-based human approach than, you know, email sometimes is like people are posting on LinkedIn, it's social media. You know, you can build more relationships than just pure like cold email. But I also think that the thing with cold calling is you can catch people by surprise, and that sometimes doesn't, like, bode well for a conversation. Other times it does. But I just think that people are— the way people buy today is they want to do the thinking, they want to do the research, they want to have that agency and, like, sometimes anonymity, right, on in their buying process before they really even want to talk to a human. And whether that's like good or bad, you know, in the internet era, like people can hide behind a screen and they want to do that. They want the ball to be in their court as opposed to being, you know, getting a phone call and all of a sudden you've got like a decision, you know, immediately. Like, do I give him the next 5 seconds? Do I give him the meeting? What do I do? So for that reason, I really like the approach of written word. That doesn't mean you don't do cold calling, but that's certainly my preference and I think my experience has been better there.

So you've built a business around pipeline and helping pipeline. Your first big win for a client with Hardy Sales, what did you learn from that? What was the lesson you took away from it?

The biggest thing I've seen is if you have a strong offer that is solving a really true pain point, it'll work. Prospecting is way easier when your offer rocks. We saw that really very quickly and very obviously with one of our clients, and we continued to see it where, you know, we're reaching out. We know that people are showing a level of intent to, to learn more or potentially buy, you know, they hit all of these different signals that our client cares about. And when we reach out to those people on LinkedIn, we're seeing like a 25% connect rate, which is great, 24% reply rate, which is awesome. And then a 58% interest rate on their offer. I mean, it's nothing really, maybe a little bit about like the way we're messaging it, but it is, has 100% to do with the fact that they have an amazing product that people want. So that's the biggest thing I've seen.

Are customers open to you giving them the feedback that, guys, your messaging is kack? That's a South African word for your messaging is subpar. Let's change this.

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depends. It's a hard message to deliver. We try and let the numbers and the data points speak for themselves, right? Like, if we are using a message that our client, you know, recommends or has used or wants to kind of stay on brand with and we're not getting anything, then that begs the question, like, you know, we're getting in front of the right people and this isn't landing. Can we change it? Sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no. And at that point, you know, it's, it's a little bit of education, like, okay, well, you know, definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. You know, it's, it's a delicate line and, and some people are really open to it. Others not so much. And we just have to keep expectations very real when that happens.

You're not a newbie anymore. You've been around for a little bit and you've got some battle scars. For a young person moving into a sales manager role, what would you give them from 3 points of advice on how to be effective leader?

I would say it comes down to like the people in the process, right? Managing the people and managing the process. When it comes to process management, I would say giving your team the tools and workflows they need to be as successful as possible. Like step number one, whether it's software or the best Google Sheets you've ever seen, I don't know, like it doesn't matter, just as long as You are giving them what they need to be efficient and effective.

So enable them.

Enable them. Yeah. It goes back to like what I've been doing, right? For a very long time. I think on the people management side, right? It, it, I'm very much like a, you know, coaching, like I don't like dictating, like do this, do that. Like I think the coaching aspect is extremely important. So investing in the time in your people to build up their blind spots or encourage them in what they are doing really well. I think that's what it means to be a leader. And then the third thing, and this is the thing that pops into mind very quickly just because I think it's where we are in the world, but with AI and the rise of all of the tech and capabilities out there, I think it's really, really important to teach your team how to use AI effectively for your role, but also still how to think critically. You can't let AI do all the thinking for you. And I see that very often, like people just default to, well, like use AI, just use, you know, ChatGPT to write your messages, but you still have to think. So helping people like harness AI the right way. Without letting it take over, I think is just something that's increasingly important. I mean, and I'm even thinking about that with like parenting, right? And like all of life. But yeah, I think that's, those are the 3 things.

I like that. That's really good. You touched on coaching and you would know from any of my posting regarding coaching is the single biggest thing that we can do to move a sales team. So a clear accountability coaching and effective team meetings come to mind. From a Hardy Sales perspective, not just the numbers, but what does success look like for you in the next 12 months?

Not just the numbers, but I'm going to start with the numbers. We're getting to a million.

Yeah, come on, get in there, girl.

Bring it, bring it. Um, that's of course the goal. Yep. So You know, we're taking this approach with, with like signals and relevance and really trying to find those in-market buyers. But we're also really trying to say, okay, let's, let's talk about networking, right? Like, let's talk about referrals. Let's talk about the fact that most of your pipeline probably comes from people that you know, whether it's partners, friends, colleagues. And that's the stuff that actually closes faster usually than like you know, a colder lead. So we're really trying to marry like this concept of intent and signals with the, like a networking at scale approach to say like, you don't just have to play this volume game. Like you're missing out on your relationship opportunities. Truly, actually success to me is building this company to $1 million in revenue without sending a single cold email. Because that proves my point, right? That you can grow your business with warm signals. Some people you, who you know are in market and send them messages. It's still, some people argue, well, that's still cold. Well, no, cuz I've isolated the part of my market that is actually interested and I've used my network to my advantage and I didn't have to blast the cannons at 30,000 people. A month to get my company to a scaled place. That to me is actually like success. To date, 100% of our pipeline and closed won opportunities have been through referral inbound because they've seen my posts on LinkedIn, whatnot, or any other signals that we've, that we found. I've not sent a single just random arbitrary cold email.

Let me just have a pause here for our listeners. Christie posts really good stuff. It's worth hooking up on LinkedIn. You can learn and she's always responding as well. She's not one of these too high and too mighty to respond to your, your messages. So I agree with you, Christie. I think that's really cool. There's something that, you know, to do with growth and in the current market, I'm seeing a lot of people that are saying, oh, we've come out of a time of plenty and salespeople are being caught out. Are we teaching people how to sell and specifically in the tech industry, or have we created a generation of order takers?

I just had this conversation with another friend and I think that in some instances I see amazing salespeople being developed and I love that, like creative go-getters. They are aware of the nuances of like the buying committee, the relationships they're building, the internal organizational dynamics, all of the intangibles, right? That take a level of awareness and I guess intuition perhaps to, to be able to navigate the world of sales and effectively get, you know, deals across the line. But I also think there's this. We're so used to automation and on-demand mentality that I do see a lot of people defaulting to that. They think it's gonna help, but it's not, right? So we've got the rise of AI SDRs and all of this automation that tools can do for us, and it, it comes at the cost of actually knowing how to sell, like the process, the tools. Are not gonna do everything for you. You still have to step in as a human and do the selling. So I, I see a couple different camps and, and in some fashion I would say, yeah, like we are really losing our ability to like connect with people, to understand how to talk, like speak the buyer's language and not just our own and like use our brains creatively and critically. And so I, I would say like, I do see that because people just want people like bots or systems to do it for them. I'm not hopeless, right? Like I do still think that there are really good sales leaders out there that are cultivating this in people. It is a slightly different skill set that we have to build with, you know, like I said, AI and all that stuff, but it's a fine line to walk. And I think it's something for everyone to be aware of.

I think you're going to experience it over the next couple of years as a new mom and a new family when you were speaking about how to communicate with one another. I was just reflecting on sitting at a table in a restaurant and there's a family sitting behind us and 3 of the kids at the table are sitting with devices and no one's talking to each other. And that's the world that we're in. And Christy, if I can give you any advice from an old person, never allow that. Just simply never at the table. We've got to learn our family values at the table and spend time away from those devices. Have hard conversations.

Hey, yes, could not agree more. We've got some, you know, we've got some friends that have taught, you know, their 5-year-olds, right, or whatever, young children, how to talk to adults. And, and it's a simple conversation usually, but like, there's no iPad, there's no phone, there's nothing. Like, they're at the table and they're conversing and part of, you know, the conversation. And, and I think that is like developing that from a young age, like, is So important. And you and I both didn't have the screen option. And it's, it's an easy fix for people, but no, like, no, we're not doing that.

And our young salespeople, they need it as well. You know, this, this thing of, of people selling virtually is so tough. So if you get to spend time with an older salesperson or even younger salespeople, just in their own proximity, you pick up so much just from each other, just from bouncing and that. Right. I got a couple of questions from you, Christy. I'm going to get a little bit esoteric, but where do you go to continue your own growth and stay up with your field? What are the top 3 books, top 3 podcasts, top 3 sites that you would recommend for us?

I mean, LinkedIn is a treasure trove and also can be really annoying, but most often it's a treasure trove. There are certain, I would say more like topics that I follow. For me, it's like AI and sales. Right? Like that's the hot thing and I wanna know like automation, AI processes, things that people are doing that are cool that I could maybe, you know, take into my own processes. So I would say like social media is really huge, whether like at LinkedIn I follow topics, certain people that are building really cool things with AI or have just good ideas or a little bit contrarian. And same with like Twitter or X, whatever, like social media, there's a lot of really cool stuff on there. So I would say I do, I, I don't like social media for my own promotion or anything, but I do like it. I'm a consumer 100%. In terms of growth and like my own development, like I also would make the case that it is so easy for us to live in our world of sales or live in our world of tech and like we're obviously very apt to learn more about what we do every single day. Like that's, that's very natural, but I actually find my best growth Or ideas come from other unrelated places. So there's actually a podcast I love, and it's weird that I love it, but it's called The Art of Manliness. Okay. It's totally for men, 100% for men, which is weird cuz I'm a mom and you would think that those topics would not be interesting to me, but the host does an incredible job of like just bringing these really interesting topics to the table that are, you not related to what I do necessarily on a day-to-day basis, but he'll look at like, you know, the American presidents and do these really interesting historical like lessons from presidents. Or there was one that he did that was fascinating on like the meaning of war, which again, totally not what I do every day, but just really like interesting philosophical, historical enriching topics. You're like, oh gosh, I've never thought about that, or I've never like considered that perspective. And my husband and I listen to it together and we just find like the topics he brings to the table are so interesting. And that's actually the kind of stuff that I think for me stretches my mind in different ways. And I love that, not just, you know, business professional, my segment of the world, it's, it's really getting beyond that. Art of Manliness. It's a great podcast, even for ladies.

I've got it. I've got it. 3 must pieces of tech that are in your toolbox that you never leave home without. And I'm talking work philosophically when you, yeah.

Yeah.

So we know LinkedIn, we know LinkedIn is your, is your go-to.

This is a, this is a fancy, sexy topic right now, but the tool Clay. Is very popular and very magical and I love it. So if you— have you ever seen it? Have you heard of it?

I'm in Africa, mate. We don't get anything cool.

You've got a few cool things in Africa.

No, we got a lot. We got a lot. I'm just pulling your leg. Clay. I'm going to look it up.

Clay. Essentially what it is, it's a data enrichment tool. If I'm boiling it down, it's a data enrichment tool that has ability to integrate via API calls or webhooks with basically any platform you want. Either you can hook it in yourself or it has native integrations. It can also pull in AI research. So it, you can, you can process data in this incredible way and have it do all of these things. In one like table, like an Excel spreadsheet is basically what it looks like. We pull in contacts from our intent data, then we find their emails, we find their phone numbers. We look for all of these different things with AI. We use, you know, different like tech stacks and like pull in research topics and it'll give us outputs that we want. And then we can push everything into LinkedIn automatically from that platform. So like, When I set up our workflow, I actually don't touch any data. I don't touch it. And it's amazing. It like, it makes, yeah, it's really cool. And you will do incredible things. Oh yes.

It buys you days.

We're asking it for a table of 1,000+ people for every single person in every single company. Go see if they recently acquired a business or have been acquired. Go do AI research, tell us all the details if you find it. And so for the whole column of 1,000 people in the table, it'll find it, pull it. We have the details. We have, you know, it's all research that we're asking it to do, but it's incredible. So I would say that's an amazing tool.

Wow. Wow. I got more than I, than I, that is amazing.

Check it out.

It just gives you so much more time to sit in front of your customer and add value to your client and add value. So I've got two questions for you, two questions. I'm going to end with one of them. It's actually a two-part question. If your husband was hosting this podcast, what question do you hope he wouldn't ask you?

Where have I not been a good seller? Like, what have I done wrong in my own sales process?

What is the sales process mistake that you've made? Come on, give it.

Don't— I, I give on price because I'm nice, so I, I will discount the value. So that's number one. And then I just recently experienced this. I have blind spots where I have not found very critical pieces of the sales process on my Prospect side, and I've not been aware of the entire process of what needs to happen.

Of their buying cycle.

Yeah. So we just had a deal, like we got through legal, we got through a little bit of back and forth on like number, you know, retainer negotiation. We got through scope of work, we got through like everything. And at the final mile, the CFO said, we can't do this. We don't have it in budget. And I just thought we were moving along. Like, I figured that they had had those conversations in person. We had gotten through legal. We had did turns on red lines, right? So I, I assumed that because we had gone through that whole process, like, this was already budgeted and like good to go. And we got to that last point and I mean, it's, it's not dead, but it's certainly stalled and probably, you know, will be revived here in a couple months. But, you know, I was like banging my head against the wall like, oh my God, budget is like number one. Like, how did I miss this? Right? So even on some of the very 101 selling points, I have been, you know, a perpetrator of those myself, which is good, but humbling, you know.

It's good lessons. Sometimes we can't get too big for our own boots. Yeah. My wrap-up question for you. What is the 1%, the thing that's made the biggest difference in your career?

Taking risks.

So not stepping back, going, stepping forward.

Yep. Like moving from HR to sales enablement. I didn't even know what a forecast call was. I didn't know what a sales kickoff was when I moved from back of office to, you know, the revenue organization. But it completely changed the course of my career and I would argue life simultaneously, like stepping out into business ownership. From, you know, my corporate role. Huge risk. You know, we've had a few beatdowns and it's not been smooth sailing by any means, but I think that I would've changed it at all. So not being afraid of the discomfort.

Take the risk. Kristy, thank you. What a lekker way to wrap it up. That's a South Africanism to say what a great way to wrap it up.

I love it.

Thank you for being with us. Thank you for sharing a little bit about who you are and where you're from and some great insights. Building pipeline. We wish just endless sales for you, endless customers. We wish it to be a bumper year. And I hope to see you again. People can get you on LinkedIn and the web address. Where else can people contact you?

Yeah, howdysales.io is our website, but I would say LinkedIn is the best place. I'm, I'm on there. I've got it. Pretty much up all day long. So finally. Awesome.

Thank you. I hope you have such a nice day. It's so nice to finally meet you. I wish it was in person in Denver and we could have had a cup of coffee, but I'll settle for a virtual.

We'll take this.

Yes, thank you, Daniel. From me, Daniel, have a lovely afternoon. Thanks for tuning into this episode of Because Growth Matters. If you got value from today's conversation, Please take a moment to rate the show 5 stars on your listening platform and share it with someone who might benefit as well. Don't forget to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. Catch you next week.