How To Ace Job Interview With Harshad Bhagwat | Small Town Bigger Dreams Podcast

How do you present that to the next employer? And that's where storytelling really comes, okay? How do you tell them? So I tell my students, how do you tell the future story to them so that they can— they are ready to forget your past? Dinner table conversations when you were growing up, right? What were they like, right? Uh, were they more around self-development? I think we forgot all that actually, okay, in this corporation's world, uh, value exchange, or then and understanding what value you have to offer in the marketplace and all that. So naturally, the second step comes, you have to target the right companies.

So, all right, hello everyone, welcome to another episode of In Conversation With. I am so, so excited today for my next guest, someone who when I talk to, I find there are so many similarities, there are so many overlaps within our journeys. So I'm so excited to have Harshad Bhagwat with me. Harshad is a scientist turned entrepreneur turned career coach. How are you doing, Harshad?

Yeah, it's a great day, Haritosh. Um, you said it right that we have lot in common and, uh, was really looking forward to this conversation. I think we have been planning for 2 weeks now. Uh, yeah, would love to have this conversation with you. And, um, our— I think audience, uh, is similar. I mean, we are working in similar space as a career coach, so I'm, I'm sure, you know, and I, I tell my students also, this 1 1 is not 2, okay? When similar-minded people meet and have a discussion on a topic, it's always a synergistic effect and both of us learn from each other as well as the audience. So that's, that's why I'm here.

So, so guys, now you know why I got him on this interview. He's such an amazing positive person. So Harshit, let's start, uh, this interview cum conversation with talking about your journey because when I read Scientist, entrepreneur, career coach. How did it all happen? What is all your journey all about?

Yeah, so Haritosh Srivastav, to say this every time I meet new people, that I look young but hai matlab experience hai abhi. So it's been around.

You look very, very young. If you tell that you joined corporate a few years back, nobody will deny that.

Exactly. You know, if I sort of wear a jacket and have a backpack. Literally, I can go inside any college and they wouldn't even notice, actually. So yes, so it's been 17 years of professional experience after college. And let me put this in a story format, right? As we are all learning storytelling from you, it is never like, you know, it looks like a scientist or then entrepreneur or then career coach. It is not like zigzag, you know. I think all of us tend to search for meaning, tend to search for some common thread. Sometimes we find it, sometimes it takes time. But that has been my journey, that it looks for the outside world, it looks like, okay, I have changed my career twice. But it was not like by accident. I think when I was graduating from college, getting that corporate job was always the dream, right? I think entrepreneurship not was not in the horizon at all in my mind, even though my father has always been an entrepreneur, but it never occurred to me. Joined Tata Research Center. I've always been kind of a problem solver person. So I thought like, yes, being a scientist, developing something new, patenting it, putting it in research paper format, and also showing it to clients and even doing business development to make them implement new ideas. So this entire process I could see in Data Research Development Center. Around, you know, there is a time after 7 years I thought this is enough, I guess I cannot do more at this place, nor I feel that I will be a senior researcher or then senior scientist, or, you know, I never looked at that path as me. I thought like, I'm a problem solver and I'm an implementer. So where can I implement solutions? So understood that being an entrepreneur, you get that additional freedom. You face that additional risk as well at the same time. But that's what I guess we crave for. I think at that time I realized what I could— I got from my father is the need for freedom actually. I could get from my mother and my all maternal family is the DNA of teaching. So we are all teachers, professors, principals in our family. So I think this teaching and entrepreneurship I could combine when I became an entrepreneur in 2014. And since then, education and tech has been my focus area. For last 7 years, I built WordsMaya. We've worked with college students, professionals for improving their soft skills. For last 1.5 years after the pandemic, I think the need for senior professionals was very evident in the market. Lot of layoffs happened, lot of technology evolution changes, complete industries got even destroyed and got reinvented. So I'm helping now senior professionals with their next job, with their next career growth as a career coach. So this is my third stint, but I guess as a story, uh, Being an entrepreneur at heart as well as a teacher, I think, is my story if you put it in one line.

Amazing, amazing journey. And, uh, let's switch to English because I want my audience to be comfortable. Yeah. You can always connect the dots backward, you cannot connect the dots forward. And after story, everything had a piece in your journey so far. And the doosri cheez hai, we all are in coaching business, and for you it's a perfect synergy, coaching coming from your mother's side and business coming your father's side. So that's really interesting.

Yes, yes, yes. No, it— I mean, sometimes it has to be in your DNA as well. I mean, there is this nurture component, but some things, you know, Yes. And you know, your dinner table conversations when you were growing up, right? What were they like? Right? Uh, uh, were they more around self-development, more around improving or helping others? You know, you tend to have that kind of career choices, not necessarily, but I guess that could be one of the values. In fact, actually, I take something called a career values assessment of my students. It kind of tends to bring out these subtle elements of what you value in your career. And that can be a great talking point, especially at mid to senior level. We— I know first job, we are, you know, very naive, literally, to really understand all this. Yes, you know, getting that first job, generally we get it right after college, whatever we learnt in college, something internship, some certification. You know, at that time, getting that corporate break, getting that first salary is generally our target. But I think as we grow older, we tend to find some fulfillment and alignment to what we want to do. So at that time, I guess these values really come out.

Love, love that term, career value assessment. But you, you said something which Everybody I talk to has some or other story, and that is the story of their first salary being credited to their account or getting it on hand. So what is your story about your first salary? What did you do with your first salary? I know we didn't talk about it, but this is natural going.

So, uh, I don't remember honestly, Haritosh Srivastav. Sorry, but somehow, uh, Honestly, I'll tell you, but this, I guess I remember my emotions around it, okay? I don't think it was my happiest moment. I will tell you why, okay? Yes, money was credited on time. Money was credited as promised in my offer letter. But actually what happened, I got into the Tata Research Center by networking, by pitching to them, okay? Not by my campus job. Actually, I got campus jobs, I didn't join them. Um, and I was in a department only of IITians and PhDs, and I'm none of that, okay? So this particular person who was my boss gave me a chance literally based on my final year project, based on the way I told him something. And I think by the time of that one month, I realized that this is very difficult thing for me actually. You know, these other people knew in IITs when they're doing master's and PhDs, they knew how to do research. I mean, I remember my boss was asking me to read a book and Xerox, okay, for him as well. I mean, within the company. And I just, you know, printed those uh, or Xerox those pages. And there was something at the end which is like, you know, like all the references. And the references list was 10 pages. I thought that is useless. Who, who reads that? He said, that is where the thing is. I mean, you didn't think like this. I said, no, I mean, I didn't know. At bachelor level, we just read what is the theory part, what are the formulae, all that. So starting from here, so Honestly, that first month, and I'm sure that first year was not easy. Actually, I really thank my boss for supporting me during those first 2 years.

Awesome, awesome. So this is good because this is where the, when the heart-to-heart conversation comes, these stories come, which is more fun than typical stories and all those things.

Yes, we are not talking about our resume, right?

Like from this time to this time, I think LinkedIn profile photo and LinkedIn titles.

Yeah, I think stories really matter.

There are enough videos about that, not to discount their value, but yes, these conversations are conversations where we share stories and learn from each other.

Exactly.

So coming from when you were a scientist just getting into, then going through all this journey, you have yourself switched career, you have helped a number of people switching their jobs or getting their dream jobs or going to the level that they deserve to.

Yes.

So my next question to you is, what do you think are probably one or two biggest myths when it comes to job search in 21st century?

Yes. And, uh, you know, really, I mean, that's what I keep telling my students, uh, and, uh, I think somehow, uh, we are still carrying, uh, as a generation probably. I mean, let's talk about Maybe people about age of 30 right now and maybe even 35, that some companies there, they give you a job and you go to that company, I mean physically or whatever, and then you do that job, whatever they tell you, you do it. You know, like still, you know, I would not want to use the word slave here, but still that kind of mindset of, you know, previous generation when there was no freedom. I think India was with limited job opportunities, right? I think companies were limited, jobs were limited. So people used to really conserve the jobs, right? And the employers really had a lot of power, let me say it.

So true, so true.

I think now we have to change that scenario, and I think this was not correct either. I think what I tell, uh, and biggest myth is that, that employers give you a job and then you do it. Okay, instead of this, I think we just forget. See, before this Industrial Revolution, yeah, there was, there were no corporations. We were all like, like we were all like I am farmer, you are cobbler, you know, that kind of thing, right? We were all exchanging.

Everybody was entrepreneur.

Everybody was pretty much an entrepreneur and we were exchanging goods and services to each other within that small community. I think we forgot all that actually. Okay. In this corporations world, I think still today, now we have to take back to today that doesn't matter. Yes, you are employed in a very large company. In a small company, or you're an entrepreneur, doesn't matter. If you are saying you're a professional, you are doing something to earn money. The value exchange is there.

Yes, yes, yes.

Let's not define that is an employer, I am an employee. Let's say these are two parties and I'm exchanging value with each other and I'm earning my salary in return. Let's say I'm from employee side, because employers think like that. And because I have been on both the sides, I have hired people, I had to actually fire people also, unfortunately. And I have asked for job when I was working for corporates. I think let's look eye to eye. Let's just say this is the value I can offer to you. And employers are saying this is the value I can get from hiring this person. And I think he or she deserves this salary. Same for professional side. I will earn my salary in return. I think when I say this to my students, it feels obvious to them, but they feel like this is bulb on. This is first time they heard this, right? And then the rest of the— how do you put that in resume? How do you prepare for interviews? It just changes the game for you actually when you think like this.

Absolutely, I totally agree. And as our mentor says, 80% of everything is mindset, and then comes the tactics and strategy and all those tools, techniques, etc. But first, that mindset has to— there, it's a value exchange. You are providing value, you are getting something in return, versus you being a corporate so-called slaves, or you are— your day and night everything is devoted to— it's not. We are We're working towards the gig economy, as they say, where, yeah, there was a lot of discussion about the moonlighting and all those things. But one aspect which I thought was not covered fairly was how can we make it towards the gig economy where not only employers, employees also have more independence and choice, more choice than, than what we currently have.

And Haritosh Srivastav, let me ask you, like, say, before even gig economy came, I think you have been with large companies for several years and you must have hired people or you must have had team members yourself. So you know both the sides. You had a boss and you were managing. Don't you think the performance management is exactly that, right? That what did you get out of that? And sometimes it's, sometimes it's numbers as well. Like, was it revenue? Was it like improvement in something? What we call KPIs. At the same time, some soft skills, some softer aspects of did that person demonstrate this? Isn't it? I mean, always been there that whether, you know, okay, we don't exchange monthly salary as opposed to what we do in as an entrepreneur or in Geek Economy. But I think the thought process is pretty much the same. Maybe timelines are slightly different. Maybe a little safety aspect when you join a corporation. Maybe they give you some more time to even, you know, bounce back or learn. Those things are there, but I guess we both know that finally corporations, small or big, look for within certain timeline some output. Actually, I think it's always there. I think this economy, I guess it is becoming more visible, you can say, or more defined. That's all. Absolutely.

When you're telling that It really reminded me, for a few years there was a term in our appraisal system, it was called business acumen. You would have heard that term for sure.

Yeah, for—

I was a full, full into IT guy, full geek, and for me it didn't make sense. Why should I learn about business acumen? Yes, but now I realize unless you have a business, you can't do anything, whether you are an employee or whether you are an entrepreneur or you're doing anything else. You have to have those kind of business acumen. You have to have the ability to communicate what is you, what you have inside. I mean, I used to tell in my workshops to people that even if— and that was purely coincident— even if you are a scientist and you have discovered something which is a million-dollar, billion-dollar idea, you should have the ability and skill to communicate it to others so that others can understand what you have discovered or what you have invented. If you don't have that, then Probably you'll be great, but nobody will know that you are great.

Absolutely. And in this case, Haritosh Srivastav, the other person will not be the scientist, right?

Absolutely.

Will it be a common user, or will be, uh, I mean, will be an investor who is investing in that idea to make it or develop it or sell it? So how do you make them understand, right, what is the end value, which is not the technological value, which is a business value? So I think yes, you're right. I mean, business acumen, even for a software developer, a tester, you should have that at least. Where is my work going? Going to work. Okay, so I tell my students, okay, you can remain employed for rest of your life, doesn't matter, but you should know how you fit into that overall business. That much understanding should be there. So we are—

go ahead, go ahead, please complete.

So we— I'm coining the term entrepreneurial professionals or entrepreneurial employees. Whether you are an employee, an employer, these gaps are blurring. This I keep telling my students. Once you think like this, okay, don't start a business, it's fine. Everybody doesn't need to start a business. Everybody doesn't need to be a freelancer or a geek person. Just understand this, that this is what you are doing in the when in your career at least.

And, and from employer's perspective also, I see a lot of these terms like intrapreneur, where they are promoting people with the entrepreneur mindset within that, or maybe you create something and you get your own separate department, your own separate fund, and, and this is where you bring innovation and business acumen into picture.

So very, very rightly said that having that entrepreneur mindset even if you are employed Yeah, even at the junior level, we used to have these, uh, attributes like, did he take initiative, right? Simple thing, right? Is did he take responsibility of the work? This is an entrepreneurial, uh, you know, acumen actually, right? That's all. I mean, we just have to keep it to that level. Um, but yeah, mindset, as you said, is 80%.

So my next question to you is, which is related to previous question as well. That is, I know you have sort of a framework that you help people with when they are trying to progress in their career or seeking a new job. So what are the high-level steps? Do you want to explain that?

Yes, sure. Um, so let's talk about like mid to senior level professionals here. As I said, like 7 years, 10 years plus. Um, I mean, nothing wrong with previous people. It's just that a job search philosophy changes. Or let me complete, like 0 to 5 years experience, like your first or second job, are still skills-based jobs, right? Mostly that the skills you learned in your college or in your certification, you did something additional, uh, or you did some internships, projects. In those, whatever you choose, the technical skills or any domain skills anything, mostly you tend to get jobs based on that. You don't have much on your resume. The skills is what you have. They can assess you for the skills. If you pass that exam or assessment, they can have, let's say, give you a project, and if that project is good, they can take you in at a junior level, right?

Right.

What happens after second job, or once you go like first-time managers and even seniors you become team managers, then department heads, and even seniors. The game changes. I think you are no longer only on your technology, only on your domain. I think that's the foundation, but you are asked to do multiple things. The job descriptions become more complex as well as your career also becomes like narrower and narrower, right? At a junior level, I think you can change, uh, very easily. I guess that's why, uh, you know, uh, you are at that level. Just, I think all I tell is like on Naukri.com, you put 0 to 1 year experience, you get X number of jobs. You put 0 to 3, you get Y. You start getting 5 to 10, you start getting like very few jobs. The biggest challenge is not like there are less jobs, there, they don't come online, okay? They don't come on job portals, okay? As you go senior and senior. So what I call is Champions Job Search Blueprint, which is a step-by-step plan to get your dream job at mid to senior and leadership positions. I think what I say is the first step is the mindset, what we just talk about, uh, value exchange, or then understanding what value you have to offer in the marketplace. Place and all that. So naturally the second step comes, you have to target the right companies. So no longer you are applying for an opening, you are thinking, ka pe mera job hoga? Or instead of that, which companies mera liye offer kar paunga value? You know, you are thinking in a very different way. You are literally making a target list of bunnies. And based on, let's say, your location preferences, based on technologies you have used, based on industry, of course. But what size? Accordingly, size also changes, actually. Then many professionals come to me with some problem in on their career profile, uh, long gap, or they have been laid off, they have been out of job for some time, or some people are overexperienced for that position or that you know, level. So they have these challenges and that's why they're getting rejected in interviews or all. So there, then the third step comes is like, we have to know how do you present that to the next employer. And that's where storytelling really comes, okay? I mean, how do you tell them? So I tell my students, how do you tell the future story to them so that they can— they are ready to forget your past? You know, like that actually.

I love that term, future story, so that they forget your past.

If you hire me, this is what will happen in next 1 year. This is I can do for you. And then, okay, yeah, who I am, yes, I agree, but this is what happened. Some things were not in my hand, some things were okay in my hand. I did some mistakes. Everything happens. Like, we have long careers, so we go through these ups and downs, all of us, right? And then the resume, LinkedIn comes, okay? See, people start with resume first. That is the biggest mistake.

Yeah, yeah.

So, uh, Haritosh, you know this in storytelling that resume is your brochure now, okay? That, you know, you have this company, you need such people, this is how I can help you, you know.

And of course, this is the ticket to your movie. This is the ticket to your movie.

Right, you rightly said. Um, of course there is a format for resume, you know, you have to follow that little bit, but the mindset behind writing that resume should not be, oh, there is a format, I have to tell my career history. Nobody is interested in your life history. They are just interested, you know, you are coming to my organ— and generally resumes are read by recruiters who are not from your domain. They do not have time, so they should filter you. Or in, I mean not out. At least good enough. And as you said, it's just a ticket, it's just a trailer. And then you, then you, of course these days LinkedIn has become like the place for recruiters to search for you. So a lot of my students get inbound messages from recruiters and consultants on LinkedIn saying that we have an opening which is not on job portals, but you seems suitable.

Wow.

So how do you write your LinkedIn profile so that you come in their search? Just like SEO on Google, how do you make your SEO stronger? And when they click on your profile, do they get convinced about your profiles to message you inside? I mean, on LinkedIn they do not get your phone numbers as on Naukri, so they have to message you and all that. And then This much is not enough. You have to do multiple things to get multiple calls. Networking is one of them. How do you see many of my students, their ex-colleagues, their ex-boss, their college friends end up helping them with their next job? And somehow I feel, I don't know why professionals just don't nurture their old network. You know, job change kiya toh, like 90% people, they are out of touch. You know, I tell— I ask them, do you remember that person who used to sit with you in your canteen? Not like your next colleague, next door colleague, or, you know, next person. Yeah, like those friends, they might be in other departments, they might be some accountants, you are engineer, but they are in your target companies probably now, you know, like that. You never know. So a lot of my students end up getting— so how do you use your network, use your online brand to get interview calls. Finally, how do you crack interviews, convince them in interviews that you should be, and then negotiate your offer that you get that salary, what you're not only last getting, but what you want in the growth and all. So this is the overall blueprint, and it works for all 3 types. First type come to me saying they are having good career profile, but they are not getting upward movement. Not in the same company, not, nor in the other company. They're kind of stuck in the same level. Second level people come is, as I said, they have some gap or out of job or some profile issues. They want to— a lot of businessmen are exiting their business after pandemic, so they want to get back into corporate. And the third type of people, a lot of people are changing their careers, which is a great thing actually. Uh, you know, they are completely changing. They are learning new skills from technology going to managerial is obvious career change we used to do even long back, but now people are getting into data analyst role from totally different profile. They get bored in sales, they want to go into marketing or operations, you know, all these things they want to change. For them, it is a very different path actually. So all these three parts, I help them, uh, like with the game plan. So again, my problem solver's attitude comes into here. And, uh, Haritosh Srivastav, I think the storytelling which they should learn from you, actually, you know, it's all about storytelling, actually.

Absolutely. I say that now the world needs better storytellers. The kind of story that we tell to ourselves first of all Before we tell any story to anyone outside, first we tell stories to ourselves, then we tell to others. I have the confidence that I can invite Harshad to this. I don't feel deserved, maybe I shouldn't invite Harshad, then I will not even reach out to Harshad or reach out to someone on LinkedIn or reach out to any influencer or any other thing. Positive story, and then what stories you tell, how do you prepare? Like you said, great examples why there was a gap. Now you can tell, or you can have a compelling story which like, wow, that is where this all comes into picture. Amazing, amazing.

So this is very good. Okay, I'm going to tell my students also this, that what you tell the story inside, I think naturally it comes out. Yes, you're so right. I think a lot of my students struggle with confidence and overthinking, right? That your mind produces like this constant— and we, we, I'm sure both of us do that, like, you know, overthink sometimes. Monkey mind, you can say, that it constantly producing thoughts which are positive, negative. So what do you tell them? I think this job search journey, uh, I tell them that, you know, you just, just, you just tell yourself that this is going to take some time, 3 months, 6 months, but imagine 1 year later, you will think like, oh, this, that April, yeah, I was doing job search, yeah, but now I am fine, you know, now I have passed that phase, you know, just a temporary phase in your life. But otherwise, if you are in that phase and you are saying, oh, it looks endless, 'Oh, this is never going to end for me. I don't think I'm going to get a good job,' you know, then naturally that confidence goes down, right? But if you accept that it's just a 3 months, 6 months— yes, it's going to be a bad phase, probably confusing phase, stressful phase, a lot of rejections, but after 6 months it is going to go away. So, you know, this— I, as you said, the way you tell story to yourself I think this is, yeah, I learned this from you today that this is also storytelling actually.

Absolutely. This is in fact the best storytelling that we can do to ourselves. And when you were saying that, I think again, because of our survival from the times of our ancestors, our mind is prepared in such a way that we by default think negative. Khatra Tony, this is our natural instinct. Yeah. And this is where we need to train our mind to think positive by using— I'm pretty sure you have all the framework of using affirmation, visualization, and all those things, or connecting with positive people, people who have achieved that zone, connect with them and get that vibe from them. That really tremendously helps. So I'm pretty sure you are also teaching that, and I also teach in storytelling. If you're not yet there, don't worry about that, just Have the confidence, keep going, keep learning, and you'll be there in no time.

Wow. Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

Awesome. So, Harsha, this has been an amazing, amazing conversation, uh, and I'm not sure how long we have been talking about, but this is the last question.

Yeah, I lost the track.

Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna ask you, uh, I'll keep that last question for the last, but before that, tell us how can people people connect with you if they are on their job search journey? How can they reach out to you?

I think LinkedIn, yes, definitely. Uh, I'm sort of very active and I reply to messages, yes. And I do webinars every week. So, uh, you know, if you just want to know how it is, you're not in an active job such more, but you still, you want to know how you can get the next job later, Come to my webinar. If you are really actively looking for a job, come to my webinar. I think that should be the starting point.

I will be putting all the details of Harshad in the show notes. So we'll put his LinkedIn profile link, also the webinar link, webpage, and all those links will be there. Guys, check it out. I'm very, very sure you're going to get a ton of value just by attending those webinars. So my last question to you, Harshad, before we say closer to this conversation is, if you have to filter out— we talked about so many things when it comes to job search and career progression and everything. If you have to give only one advice, I know it's gonna be tough, for any potential job seeker, what would that be?

Um, I think everyone is capable of, I mean, of a job. I think capability is not a problem. I feel you just have to know what is your true capability and the company who needs that. I think some people forget that. Some people believe they are no longer capable or they have never been capable. I'm not from best colleges, you know, or I didn't do well in my career. I should have done something. I should have invested in Haritosh Srivastav's course earlier, you know, something like this. They keep talking that I'm never good enough. Yeah, I think let's not worry about it because like Haritosh Srivastav, as, as let's say rich people worry about super being super rich, like super rich people, you know, look at super super rich. So there is never like a best person And I think getting a job, you don't have to be the best person. You don't have to be from best colleges. Honestly, you just need to know how to do that job, right? And literally, do you— I mean, I ask my students, do you have to pass like a JEE type exam and you have to come at the top to get a job? No, actually, you have to just literally outcompete the other 9 candidates they got, right? Literally, right? Isn't it? Do you really check everyone in the the world for that job. Just check those few candidates you get, right? So are you applying to right jobs? Are you showing them? You, if all of you definitely have a good job, very good employer waiting for you. Really, I mean, employers are not filling their positions that— I mean, you must be knowing, right? You don't get good people. They keep complaining to me, we don't get good people, we don't get good candidates. They are waiting for you. Just believe in yourself. Just identify right opportunity and apply with the right mindset. You will get it. I think it's just that fitment. Was it nice?

Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much, Haritosh Srivastav. It was such an honor and pleasure to have you, uh, here in the channel. And we'll probably have more collaboration in future. I think we just tasted the blood now, so we'll have more conversation in the future. Future. But yeah, if you liked something out of this conversation, please put in your takeaways in the comment section. And as I say every time, until next time, keep learning, keep growing, and keep going out of your comfort zone. This is Haritosh Srivastav. I'll see you in the next video. Until then, take care, stay safe, and stay blessed.