Brian Scudamore - Build Your Own Business, Be Your Own Boss

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Team. Welcome back to the mantalk show. I just want to say again, you know, I know I've said it the last couple weeks. I'm going to say it again here. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you for downloading these episodes, thank you for sharing them. We have hit a landmark. I want to celebrate something with you because I don't do that very often, but, you know, I set a goal for myself earlier on in this year and the goal was to reach 100,000 downloads a month. And that was meaningful to me because I've been running this podcast for six plus years and, you know, I really wanted to develop the show. I wanted to develop this podcast into something that was meaningful for people. And I've put a lot into inviting some exceptional guests on the show to come on and some great conversations, some great stories from some great lessons and learning. And so it means a lot to me that the show has been growing and that you've been sharing it, that you've been tuning in, that you've been sharing it on Instagram and tagging me and all those things. But this past month, the month of June, we reached the goal that I had for 2022. The last three or four months, we've been growing at like 10% a month. And so we are officially doing a million plus downloads a year. We are doing over a hundred thousand downloads a month. And that is part and parcel because of you. It's a huge, huge thank you to you for tuning in, for sharing, and for getting the word out there. You know, it is true that when you have dedicated people that believe in your mission, then you can go further, farther, faster than you could if you were by yourself. And so I just appreciate all of you deeply. I have been doing this for a long time and I have put a lot of work into trying to be a better host and build a better show for you to tune into. So if you ever have feedback, if you ever have comments that you're like, hey, you know what, this one small thing would dramatically improve your podcast or get the word out there DM me on Instagram mantalks, I would love to hear. Okay, let me tell you about my guest today. Mr. Brian Scudamore was one of the first guests I ever had on the show. He is the founder and CEO of the O2E brands, home of 1, 800, Got Junk and other exceptional home service brands. He's had a tremendous amount of success. It's a big franchise business. He's also the author of the number One bestselling books, wtf, Willing to Fail and byob, Build your own Business, Be youe Own Boss. So we're gonna focus on that latter one. Building your own business and being your own boss. You know, there's a lot of people in the mantalks community that have started to build a side hustle project that want to start their own business, that have started their own business. And as an entrepreneur myself, somebody that employs quite a few people now and has, you know, developed and grown a business, I always love learning from people that have done some exceptional things. And Brian is one of those people. He faces a lot of hardship in the beginning of his business and has learned a tremendous amount about what it means to be an exceptional leader, build a quality business, have good culture within your business. And so whether you are an entrepreneur or wanting to become one, or simply wanting to become a better leader within the business that you are in, in some capacity, maybe understand culture better. This podcast is definitely going to be for you. He shares a lot of insight into his lessons around leadership, around building a multibillion dollar business, some of the lessons around what it looks like to be your own boss, some of the failures and setbacks. I share a little bit of my story as well. So this is just a really great episode and I hope that you enjoy it. And if you know anyone that you think would enjoy it as well, then please share it, send it to them, and without any further delay, please welcome my dear friend, Mr. Brian Scudamore. All right, Brian, welcome back to the Mantalk Show. How are you doing today?

I'm awesome. Thanks for having me back.

Yeah, man. I mean, it's funny, I was thinking, I saw you at my calendar this morning and earlier on this week, and I was thinking back to the first time that I had you on the show, and that must have been four or five years ago. You know, it really put into context how long I've been in the podcasting game.

What's amazing, because I was also reflecting. We did it in person.

We did.

And you had all your gear and it was sort of this like mobile podcaster. And that was new to me. I mean, you were one of the first podcasts I've done. I've done hundreds since, but it was amazing. You had this set up and I'm like, okay, this is kind of cool. Like, I wonder if this is going to go anywhere. And it's amazing what you've built. Your website, your following, your movement, you've built great momentum. And kudos to you. It's awesome.

Thanks, man. Thank you. I appreciate that. Many bumps along the way. Lots of lessons along the way, as I'm sure we'll talk about today. Yeah, let's dive in. I mean, briefly. I would be remiss if I didn't ask the question, which is tell us a story about a defining moment in your life. And I know you shared one last time you were on the show, but I feel like you've got a few of them to share.

So, yeah, I've got a lot. So I don't remember the one I shared last time, but a more recent one that I have been thinking about is as I get a little bit older. I'm 52. I've had my business now 33 years. These overnight success stories sure take a long time. And 1-800-GOT Junk is a $600 million business on track to become a billion. And we've got wow. One day painting and chat, Shine three home service brands. If I look at everything we're doing, I think a defining moment was my earlier days in the entrepreneur organization. I started comparing myself to all these other EO members. And as young entrepreneurs, there were a lot of people with flashy cars and building big homes. And I really realized, like, as I started to dive into conversations with some of these friends and mentors, I realized that the people with the most money or the most number of things were the least happy. And it really taught me that it's not things that make us happy and fulfilled, it's the great work that we do and the journey. And so we often started talking about the road to a billion US getting to be a billion dollar business. And I know there won't be any great celebration and feeling of happiness at a billion. It's the journey towards a billion, the lives we impact through entrepreneurship, watching people grow and build businesses of their own along with us. So, in short, I think the defining moment for me was realizing that money does not fulfill anybody. It doesn't give you happiness. Yes, you can get a certain amount of money that gives you a level of freedom, but it's the meaningful work each and every day. You talk about you've had bumps along the way. That's awesome. Thank goodness for the bumps. I don't know how you feel, but when I look at the busiest, most challenging periods of my life, with the mistakes I've made, firing my Entire team in 1994 of 11 people, you look back on those and you're like, thank goodness I failed then to make the mistake to learn, to grow, to Be better today. So always defining moments.

Love it, man. I appreciate you sharing that. And, you know, it's interesting, as we. As I was prepping for this, and, you know, I've been running a business now, we're not approaching a billion dollars, but I've been running a business. And, you know, I have multiple people that work for me now, and. And as my company has grown over the years, it's been interesting, and I've been reflecting on some of the lessons of entrepreneurship, and somebody the other day in a podcast, in an interview, was asking me, you know, like, what's been one of the keys to your success and to finding a sense of purpose in life? And I said, I sort of failed my way here, you know, that the failures became the kind of trampoline or the platform for me to learn and grow. And it sounds like, based on what I've known from your journey, that that's been a huge part of it is the learning, the lessons from failure. And so I think I kind of want to just start in a basic sense and then maybe go a little bit more in depth. And so I want to get an idea from you, because I see men asking this question all the time within our ecosystem. How do I start? How do I build a business? You know, I got this question the other day. Somebody literally said. And I thought of you because I thought, you know, who better to ask than you? The question was, basically, I'm. I feel like I'm stuck in my job, and I don't like it, but I don't really know what to do outside of that. Where do I begin?

Right.

And so for the people that, you know, look at somebody like you and look at the success that you've built, where can they start? Where does it all begin? So I'll just sort of put that on your doorstep.

That's a great question. Can I comment on one thing that you mentioned just prior?

Please.

Yeah. You know, you talked about failure, and I wrote a book called wtf? Willing to Fail, because I realized the title came after we wrote the book, my co author and I, because I realized. I was like, wow, failure after failure after failure. But I learned something, and it always took me to a bigger, greater place in the world. And so I see failure as a necessary ingredient in success. And I know your audience is men, and I think one thing that we men have in common is the ego of not wanting to admit when we're wrong, and especially to our partners and the women in our life. And we don't like to Say, oh, sorry, honey, you're right. You were right, I was wrong. And I think failure is something I want to inspire people to accept and. And proudly welcome and say, okay, I made a mistake. I spoke to. My oldest daughter is graduating from high school this year, and I was asked to give a toast to the graduates. And I spent two or three minutes talking about failure. And I said, you, next step in life here is get out of your comfort zone and make some mistakes. Don't just plan on having perfect grades at university. Fail a bit, make some mistakes. Learn and grow. That will be your best teacher. So I'm very passionate about failure. I wanted to throw that in there. Now you talked about, what is it? Where does someone start when they want to start a business? My second book, BYOB Build, you'd Own Business, Be youe Own Boss, was primarily around that. And I think there's a couple of paths that have been very successful for a lot of people. And I equally talk about, I think, fairly weigh the pros and cons of both. Do you start with a blank sheet like I did? Like you did? Do you take an idea and build out everything from scratch, figure out the recipe, hire a team of people, make some mistakes? I mean, I think of the early days of when your podcast launched, and now you're just like, great guns, just blazing. It takes time. Or does someone want to start with a proven recipe and franchising, which is a path we've gone down, of providing a recipe to owners, people that want to take the leap. It's what I would call the Shaquille o' Neal model. So Shaq is someone I've gotten to know a little bit since the pandemic started, and he's been a mentor to me in terms of helping me understand that franchising can be sexy. You know, if Shaq is a franchisee, that's gotta be pretty cool. And what I asked Shaq when I first met him, I said, well, why did you choose franchising? He's like, brian, listen. Everything I learned from basketball, everything from winning teams, how to set goals, how to work hard, how to follow the recipe and listen to your coach, how to build a team and get out there and win. I learned from Shaq that not every. And I talk about this in the book, not everybody wants to build the race car. Some people just want to drive it. So Shaq saw it as, I don't need to build up the idea. I can take someone else's idea and execute in an amazing way. So if I take Our first franchise owner of 1-800-GOT junk. One of our brands, Paul Guy, hit a million dollars in revenue in his first full calendar year. It took me, the guy that started with the blank sheet, eight years to get there because I had to figure out the recipe and refine it. But when I gave it to Paul and said, can you do this? Do you want to do this? He lit it up way faster than I did. So, circling back, why? How does somebody know where the first step is? If they've wanted to start their own business, which surveys say 66% of North Americans dream of running their own business, a much smaller percentage actually take the leap. Start with saying, do I really want to do this? And read, learn, talk to other entrepreneurs. Go work for an entrepreneur. You know, you probably have people, as I do, on, on your team, that are learning from you, that will one day go start their own business with our encouragement. And that's exciting. So that's a path.

Yeah. It's interesting because at an event that I was speaking at, somebody asked me if I thought that everybody had the entrepreneurial spirit and that everybody could be an entrepreneur. And I said, no, I don't think so. And it's much like the analogy that I use is I used to be an opera singer. And if you ask me if everybody can be an opera singer, the answer is unequivocally no. There's just some people that aren't going to want to do that. They're not going to like it. They're not going to have the skill or the talent for it. And the talents that they do have could be better used in other ways, you know, to build, to create, to help really sort of drive the business that maybe an entrepreneur has already built. And so that, I guess that brings me to the next sort of follow up. Two questions. One, you know, you've been in the entrepreneurial space for a long time. You've had an opportunity to talk with a lot of very successful people. You've hired a lot of very successful people. What have you started to notice are some of the makings or the foundational tenants or the ingredients of a really successful entrepreneur? And then secondly, maybe I can come back to this. Are there different kinds of entrepreneurs? Because I think in your book, you actually build your own business, be your own boss, you talk about the different kinds of entrepreneurs. And so I'd love to address those two things.

Yeah. So what are some of the traits of successful entrepreneurs? I think something they all have in common, the successful ones are they. They understand that your job as an entrepreneur is to not be the smartest person in a room. I think if you think you're the smartest person in the room, you stay small. You can't open up your thinking to other people's ideas and support to grow big. Someone that I shared a stage with or spoke later on the same stage with that you brought me to an event of yours, Gary Vaynerchuk. And, you know, I got to hang out with Gary at his office in New York. And something I'm impressed with with Gary, as I bet you are as well, is his energy and his hustle and enthusiasm and encouraging others. But he's not the smartest guy in the room. He knows that he's got a team of people. He promotes hustle. But it's also you need someone to be there to back up the entrepreneur, to put in the systems and processes to allow them to scale. An entrepreneur can't do everything. In fact, the bigger your business gets, the less you actually get to control and do. And so you've got to let go. So I think a trait of an entrepreneur is how do you let go? How do you bring in other people? How do you work as a team and still, like Gary would say, hustle. Hustle, Hustle.

Yeah. Which is almost contradictory.

Right.

Because it's like, you know, I know that as I've hired. I'm chuckling because as I've hired people who are far more gifted than me at marketing, at copywriting, at organization, at operations, the big piece that I've struggled with is actually letting go is actually. And even though I consciously know this person is way better than me at operations, I still struggled to let go because of a fear of having things fall apart or what if I'm not doing it myself or whatever the case may be. So kind of brings me to that second question, which is, have you seen different. Like, what are the different styles or different types of entrepreneurs? Because I think, you know, Gary V. Is a very specific archetype of an entrepreneur that I think a lot of the younger generation, he's become polarized. Right. Some people love him, love that hustle culture, and other people are like, not f. That. I'm not interested in that. So what are the different styles and kinds of entrepreneurs that. That people can aspire to become?

Yeah. So I think that different entrepreneurs. The most important thing is be true to yourself and what drives you. Why do you want to build something? If you want to stay small as an entrepreneur, that's okay. If you want to control Things. There's a famous Harvard case study called Rich or king? You know, what would you rather be? Many people want to be king and they want to be in charge and they want to be the man or the woman and run everything. Just figure out what you really want. In my book, I talk about Chip Wilson, who's a local here in Vancouver, started Lululemon. He is an entrepreneur that took his passion project and said, listen, I grew up with a mom who's a seamstress. I knew how to sew things. He started West Beach, a beach wear company which succeeded, then failed. And then he took his learning and stuck where he was planted and went into Lululemon. And he is somebody who's so passionate about people, but he's passionate about the design. You know, he was their chief design guy forever, even as the company was being scaled by all these professional hired guns. So know what you're building and why you want to stick with that. You can take someone like Reed Hastings, one of the co founders of Netflix. He found a way to build a better mousetrap. Blockbuster had its own set of challenges, and Reid saw a better way. You can take something and reinvent an industry. You can do it better, you can do it differently. When I started 1-800-got- junk, it wasn't that. It was a new idea. Junk removal existed. It was called rubbish removal and we rebranded it and we just decided to do it better. And so taking an idea and building it differently. Or you can take Shaq, who says, I don't need to create the idea. I just want to get out there and execute with excellence. That's okay, too. You can take someone like Tony Hawk, who I got to meet on stage at an event, and what an incredible guy that is. I mean, he's far beyond just a skateboarder. I mean, here's a guy who's built video games and businesses and brands and, you know, incredible guy. And what he's done is he's taken something he loved to do and had it parlay into every single business that he's a part of. So I think it's just. Does someone want to start a business from scratch? Proven recipe. You know, if you look at most people, I'd say 98% of us, you want to bake a cake for your mom for Mother's Day, you go to Google, you find a five star recipe or close to it, you bake it, you hopefully get it right the first time, if not the second time. And we like to follow proven recipes. Most people don't get out there and go, let's see what we got in the kitchen. Let me grab a bunch of stuff. Let's figure out this dish, let's experiment, let's refine. So you and I might be different than some of the other entrepreneurs out there. Understand yourself.

Yeah. So where can people start if they're wanting to build a business from scratch, whether it's in the tech space or in a service based space. I think one of the things that I think a lot of people struggle with is just those initial steps of the logistics. It's like, do I have to start an llc? That's an American term, but sure, right. Do I have to, you know, do I have to incorporate a company? Like, do I need a lawyer? You know, should I just a lot of, a lot of logistics that people get bogged down in and they don't necessarily create the proper vision. So I'm curious for you, you know, if you were to work with like, let's just say there was somebody on the call and they're like, I want to start a business from scratch, what steps would you say you, you need to do these five things or these 10 things in order to get things up and running?

Yeah, it's a great question. So I might take a different approach and say, don't worry about the llc. Don't worry about who you're going to hire. Don't worry about any legal stuff. That's all important. But in the immediate first phase, start with what's your path? Are you blank sheeting an idea or are you going to hitch your wagon onto someone else's star? I would then say, if you're starting from scratch, pure startup. A couple of things. Number one is what's your vision like? Start with why, as Simon Sinek would say, why are you building this? How are you changing the world? We've all got gifts. Takes years and years for some people to unwrap them. But when you figure out what your passion is in the world, you know, today I'm wearing one of many hats that I've gotten. It's the it's all about people hat. I want to build businesses that will inspire others as entrepreneurs or intrapreneurs to build great lives, to build great businesses, to have fun, to make money. I want people to grow and we take care of the right people and treat them right. And that's been our key. So because I understand my why it's easy for me to build and scale what we're doing. Someone that's starting from scratch what is it you want to do and why do you want to do it? When you think of Instagram, what that business first started as, drastically changed to where it is today. Facebook. Zuckerberg started something that was a college type connection of people that's grown into a worldwide connector. I think as someone who's got that initial idea, know that it will likely change. Netflix used to send you DVDs in the mail and now it's all online streamed and we Netflix binge all the time. Very different model. So expect that your idea will change but. But once you've got enough of an idea that you can start small with. I believe some of the best businesses, Apple 1, 800 got junk. It doesn't matter. You know, we start with a thousand bucks and an idea. You don't take your life savings and go raise a bunch of money and go public before you have something that you can kind of test the waters with. Took me eight years, as I said, to get to a million in revenue and now we'll do a million in revenue in a morning. But it takes time to build out your idea, have the patience, be willing to fail, and then start to build a team of people over time to build out that amazing startup.

Yeah, I feel like that advice is really important and especially the part that your business is probably going to change. I mean, mantalk started as an event business in Vancouver and then we had dozens of events all over North America and now that's changed radically. But the intention of what we wanted to do is still there. So I think I'm just reinforcing that. There's a real merit in what you're saying.

Yeah, and I think that the key though is to, as you said, know it will change and embrace that. Don't think that you've got to get everything right right away. Know that unlike a painting where you sort of do all your brush strokes and then look at it and go, okay, we're done. Your business is never done. It's just always different and you have to be okay with that. Otherwise I don't think you've got what it takes to be an entrepreneur.

Yeah, I would. I agree wholeheartedly. And I'm curious to get your take on, like, what are some of the key elements that actually helped you hone in on the essence of what your business was? Cause like you said, it took eight years to get to making a million. You know, you had to let your entire team go at one point. And so what are some of those key elements where when you look Back you're like, these are the things that actually helped me zero in in on my business model, on my vision, on my why, on my leadership style. What are some of those things that really helped you along the way?

Yeah, it's a great question. In the very early days, say first five years, I really started to spend time talking to customers. Either I was hauling junk and I'd be on site, or I'd go meet with other customers that some of our truck teams took care of. And I just asked them, what's most important for you in the junk removal business. And over a short period of time, they gave me all the answers. And we call it our EFAs, our exceptional focus areas on time, service, upfront rates, clean, shiny trucks, friendly, uniform drivers. It's going to be different for every person. But what was interesting is every customer gave us the answers to the model we were trying to build. They said, listen, I'm so tired of service providers not showing up on time. The proverbial cable company. Now you got to be home all day. You just will be there just sometime today. We want people to be upfront with the pricing. Don't load up my junk and then say it's going to be a thousand bucks or 500 bucks. Like tell me up front, give me a sense. You do this business every day. You can look at the size of the junk and tell me. So we started to figure out what would we do differently than all other junk removal companies, but it came from asking our customers. Today we spend a lot of time asking our franchise owners or our people, our employees, what makes a great business for you? What's most important for us to do to support you in. Because now we're not really in the junk removal or house painting business, we're in the franchise business. And so it's finding out from our partners. They're not our customers, but they are partners in us building something bigger and better together. Understanding from them what is success. And I think it's just everybody be close to, as an entrepreneur, the people that are paying your paychecks that are helping you grow your business, make sure you understand what they really want. They don't always know. And you've got to ask detailed questions.

What would you say are some of the keys to the franchise model and why is it so appealing? Because I think for people that aren't familiar with the franchising model or if they've heard that term, and they kind of have an basic understanding from your perspective, having been in it for a long time, what's appealing and what are some of the keys to actually making that function properly?

Yeah, it's all about systems. Finding these, you know, a system doesn't mean that you've got all these processes and checklists and it's absent of any sort of freedom and fun but predictable success. When our 1-800-GOT Junk Truck Team members show up to any one of my friends or people I meet through my travels who have used us anywhere in North America, they're like, oh, your teams are so great. They're so awesome. They do such a great job and they list out all the things that they do. We're really careful with finding the right people, but we are also careful at having the systems to make sure that each and every time we execute with excellence. It's predictable. It's. You know, one of my favorite brands is Starbucks and do they have the world's absolute best coffee? Probably not, but it's pretty darn great. And their people are always friendly. And any Starbucks I walk into, and I know they're not a franchise, but they're similar, they're so well systematized that it's predictable. When I order my custom drink in any city in the world, it's always, it comes out with the same quality and the experience is the same. So franchising part of the key is the right systems to make sure that there's consistency of your brand. If someone uses us in New York City or Tulsa, Oklahoma, we want to make sure that the experience is the same because people travel and word of mouth spreads and then it really goes down to, you know, even systems. Start with finding the right people and treating them right. We need to find the right people and put them in the right seats. It's never easy. I think an entrepreneur, any entrepreneur you talk to would say that's the hardest part of running a business. But just spend time picking winners. People that see the world in the way you do, that have a glass half full philosophy and then take care of them as they build and grow the business with you.

Yeah, it's interesting. I'm going to share a personal story. I don't think you know this, but I guess it was like a year year and change ago. I think it was sometime during the pandemic. My father in law lives out in Somerset, New Jersey. Okay. And he, I mean his basement just had a bunch of stuff in it and, and I finally, I finally was just like, listen, Joe, I was like, this is, we gotta clean this, this crap out. And like your place is not that it was like a mess, but he just had stuff from like the 70s in it, you know.

Too much.

Yeah, too much stuff. And so I said, you know, we're gonna use a friend's company and we're gonna, you know, bring in, bring in some guys and get it out. And. And it is true because I've used 1-800-got junk before in Canada and it was the same experience in Somerset, New Jersey. And the guys were great and it was easy and it was simple and they showed up on time and the whole thing, it reminded me of, I meant to send you a message and say, hey, this was great, it's a great experience. But it reminded me of this quote that I heard. And I don't remember who said it, but it really struck me and it changed the way that I do business. And the quote is, the most organized organizations win. And ever since I heard that, and again, I wish I knew who had said it, but ever since I heard that, it made me shift because I'm not a naturally organized person, but it made me realize that I need to find people who are exceptional at that to bridge that gap because there are some people that are just wizards with organization. So. Yeah, so I just wanted to drop that in because I feel like that's kind of what you're saying, you know, is that the more organized you are, the more structure that you can build in as you go along, the higher likelihood you're going to have of ease and success. Is that right? Am I paraphrasing correctly?

Yeah. A brand is a consistent experience and a consistent connection with the customer. So again, while Starbucks, there might be better coffee out somewhere locally that I could find. I know when I go into Starbucks how long it's going to take to get my drink. I know it's going to be ready. It's predictable. And I think as human beings we like predictability. Nobody likes delays, nobody likes waiting in line. And we get afraid sometimes to try new things. So we go with what we know and the predictability works. The E Myth by Michael Gerber. If you read that book, I have.

Yeah, really good book.

It's such a good way to help systematize and organize your business if you're a blank sheeting entrepreneur. But I think the key that you touched on is you consider yourself not to be the best organized person in the world. No secret, but entrepreneurs often aren't. That's why we find someone who is great at that, who can help to go, okay, Connor, what are all the things you do in the business every day that make your business work. How do we put these one page best practices in place so that other people can have success in the same way? You talked about letting go. I say you got to let go to grow. You know, I think of we got on the Oprah Winfrey show years and years ago, we took our first PR hire and I said, this is the goal. He was excited about it. He went off and made what I couldn't make happen because I couldn't focus for 14 months on one goal to just chip away at it. But he was able to do it. He was better at it than me. I had to let go and give up control to someone who had zero experience in pr, by the way, but he was determined and like a dog on a bone and made it happen. And so how often as entrepreneurs or even intrapreneurs within a business, we limit ourselves because we don't let go and give responsibility to someone else and say, here's the parameters, here's what we're trying to accomplish. I don't know how you're going to get there, but I'm here to support you. Off you go. So let go to grow.

I love that. I love that. And yeah, I'm not going to say anything else about it because I hope that people just take that concept in because it's definitely impacted my life and I haven't had that condensed sort of like slogan in place which I'm going to have to use now within my company. But I'll credit to you. I'll credit to you.

Well, you can even take someone who gets a lot of press these days, Elon Musk. I've never met him. And while he seems like he's the smartest guy in the room and seems like he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, I don't know. There's no way he's building all the things he's building without having amazing people who are way smarter who are figuring things out that he could never figure out. He might not talk about them all, and that's his style, but I guarantee he's in the room with people where he's not just the smartest person in the room. That's how it works. People need to let go of their egos and just go, yeah, I need help. And as men again, we often don't like to reach out and go, hey, Connor, I need some help. Do you think you might be able to, like, what's wrong with asking for help?

Yeah, well, it's it's very true. I want to. I want to shift gears a little bit. I want to talk a little bit about brand, and then I want to maybe close off our conversation around leadership, if that's okay. Of course, I'm going to ask this in a maybe sort of like a blunt force way, but outside of the logistical aspects, you know, the organizational pieces that we've been talking about, in a marketplace where there's so much competition, how do you build a brand that people genuinely give a shit about?

Yeah, it's a really good question. It's tough. So I can give you an example of a brand we built that we didn't get right the first time. And nothing. When I talk about the brand, nothing changed in terms of the service. It was just the look and feel of the brand. I got a hat here that's got the brand on it. So that's our wow One Day Painting brand. And actually here I'll just change hats. Makes it easier. It was called One Day Painting. I had someone come in. I got three quotes from different people in the neighborhood that were in painting. The first two came with cigarettes hanging out of their mouth. They were late. I thought they were going to move into my house and take two weeks to paint my home. The third one was different. The third guy shows up, Jim, and he goes, listen, quality's the same. I've done it for 22 years. My pricing's the same as the market. But the kicker, what got me excited is he said, when we agree on painting day, we'll have your home painted in a day. I was like, wow. Is that even possible? Put him to the test. Came home at 6:30pm at the end of painting day, moldings trim, floor to ceilings, immaculate. And I was wowed. We bought the company and we renamed it wow One Day Painting. I helped him franchise as a. He was a partner of ours. We ultimately bought him out and grew. When we started the brand, we made it look like 1-800-got junk. We called it one triple eight. Wow. One day painting. I mean, what a mouthful. The colors were very collegiate, very bold, bright colors. It felt like a college painting company of which there's so many out there and there's a lot of noise. We didn't get the brand right. I was in Italy, Florence, Italy, on a vacation. And I saw this, you know, 50 flavors of gelato. And there was one in the middle with a couple of lime slices in sort of a smiley face. And I looked at it and I'm like, I want that flavor. Because it's smiling at me. And I sent a picture to our designer, and I said, when we're rebranding, let's figure out how to make our brand talk to you. And we came up with this wow and day painting logo. It was the only thing that changed in our business. Long story short, the only thing that changed in our business that the managing director who I recruited to come into this business, when we had the old logo, he came from the painting world, and he's like, brian, you can't paint homes in a day. This is stupid. This will never work. Don't do it. Don't buy the company. When we rebranded the logo and I ran it by him, he joined and became our managing director. And I said to James, you used to think this was the stupidest idea, and it would never work. What gives? He goes, I don't know. That brand just speaks to me. I can feel it. I love it. I'm connected to it. So how do you build a brand that people feel connected to? It's tough. It's not easy, but trust your gut. And we had customers who actually said to us, so the bright collegiate colors we had for the logo, one of them was orange. So we made the uniforms orange. People would go in to paint someone's home in a day, and you had all these people in orange. And a customer friend of mine said to me, brian, if you're trying to build trust with people in this space, which is so important to have painters come into your house, you're trusting them with your space and your belongings. Don't dress them in penitentiary orange. I was like, dope. Are you kidding me? And that's what led us to the start of the rebrand. So it's so important to the look and the feel, like, you've got an incredible brand. Mantalks is so clear. It stands for something. People are clear what you're about. The importance of branding is so important. So anyone starting a business, don't underestimate how important it really is.

Yeah, it just. I think just to piggyback on that, like, it took a. It took me, you know, several years to get the actual aesthetic of the brand to a place where it aligned with the mission of the brand. Because in the beginning, we had same thing. We had very bright orange colors because I love orange. But eventually I realized that there was something childish about it and very similar. I had a client that was working with me, and he said, can I tell you something about your website? And I was like, yeah. He's like, there's something that just reminds me of a pylon and construction. And he's like, I get that it's men's work, but there's something that's off about the brand. And so, you know, we went through a whole rebranding process and now, you know, the website, the coloring, the font, like the whole thing actually matches and it's changed how people interact with it and who we're actually attracting into the brand. So I, I agree 100%. I appreciate that, that wisdom and insight when it comes to leadership, you know, you've been in the space that you've been in for quite a long time. You've had the chance to speak on stage and work with a lot of people that are, I would imagine, very gifted leaders. What have you learned? That if you were to mentor somebody, if you were working with somebody that was apprenticing you, what are some of the things that you would want them to know upfront in the first six to 12 months of apprenticing with you?

Well, in terms of leadership, I think it's be yourself. People get out there and they go to business school or they get whatever training they want to get to learn how to be a leader. But I think the most important thing is just be real. So back to my comment earlier about make mistakes, admit that you have made a mistake. One of the most important things in leadership is trust. Pat Lincioni, who wrote the Five Dysfunctions of a Team, says you can't build trust without first having vulnerability. So stand up as a leader and just go like, guys, I made a mistake. I'm sorry, I need your help. We can do this together. Here's what I've learned too often, I think, in old school business, which still exists out there for sure in a big way, is people are afraid to admit what they've done wrong and they try and hide the truth. So then you don't believe them when you hear whatever's coming out of their mouth. So as a leader, I think the most important thing someone can do is just be real, be yourself, be transparent. People talk about transparency, but it's the easiest thing in the world to get right because people are worried. Like, I can't really say this. I can't throw. No, just throw it out there. Say it like it is. People will trust you. Build strong relationships. You're not a leader if you aren't able to look behind you and see who's following. To be a leader, you need followers. People follow your heart, they follow your mind and your vision. Your belief, you've got to earn that. And it starts by being, being true to yourself and being yourself.

Are there certain qualities that you have focused on developing within yourself as a leader over the years in order to elevate your business? And what would they be?

I think the biggest quality is letting go of the things that I'm not great at. So if there's executional things I just can't do or I don't like to do, like hiring. I hate hiring. I don't know why. I think part of it is I know we need a team and I love people, but I'm the guy that shows up in an interview and in the first five minutes I've made my mind up and that probably doesn't work. You know, I trust my gut, but there's times I've been wrong and I'm just like, oh, we hired someone that I really liked and they were just garbage. So for me, it's letting go of things I'm not good at so that others can do it who are better and focusing on my, on my strengths and getting better at my strengths, not trying to eliminate all my weaknesses. I've got weaknesses, but they can be filled with other people. Now, in the early days of my business, when we were a million dollar business, I had to do a lot more stuff that I didn't like to do. But the more I've been able to let go and let others thrive, it's been amazing.

How has your work as a CEO, as an executive of a company, as a founder of a company shifted and changed from doing a million dollars a year to doing close to a billion dollars a year? What looks differently on a day to day basis?

I think part of it is just how little I'm connected to relative to the early days. Like the early days at a million. I knew everything. I knew where every penny was in the business, how it was spent, every customer, and now I know very little. And having to be okay with that, I met Reed Hastings, Netflix. I was at a TED conference and I just went up to him, I'm like, ah, I gotta go talk to him. And one of the questions I asked him is, as your business has grown to a multi, multibillion dollar business, how have things changed for you? And his answer was what we're talking about. He said to let go of things and decisions being made that he's never been involved in. He told me the biggest surprise for him was when they had launched in China before he was aware they were going to China. I'M like, how is that even possible?

Damn.

And he goes, I know, but he goes, that's what. You've got to trust your team. And as an executive of a multibillion dollar company, you can't be on every single thing. Even expanding to a big country. Right. Like, it's, it's mind blowing. But it's interesting in that we build things together. While you might be the face of your brand, you've got a much bigger why behind you and team behind you. And yeah, the more we let go from a leadership standpoint and empower others, I think that's a big, big key.

Yeah, it's a. It's interesting. As you were talking, I. I was reminded of. I don't know if you've seen the show we crashed. You've seen that such a crazy show. And I mean, it shows somebody who couldn't let go, who was really sort of all about him and the sort of ego and the star power and all that kind of stuff. And so it is interesting to hear you say that and then have a very clear juxtaposition around somebody who wasn't able to do that so. Well. Okay, well, go ahead.

Say why it was so fun to watch that show. It was really cool to see what he got right and the things, a lot of things that he got wrong that ultimately led to it crashing and getting taken over by someone else. And in byob, my book, I talk about three key pillars. Vision, people, and systems. And I remember having a conversation with a friend about this in relation to WeWork, Adam was an incredible visionary, like one of the best that's ever lived. And you're just looking at that and you're going, what amazing potential. Imagine if he also got the people in the system stuff right. And while they kept saying from a people perspective, they were changing the world. No, from at least what I could tell from the show, it was all about Adam and his wife. They didn't really care about everything else. And if they were able to have engaged their people in a real authentic way, I mean, he'd still be there today.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think where I maybe want to wrap our conversation is how have you personally and how have you seen other successful entrepreneurs balance the vision and how do I word this? The knowingness that your right versus other people's input. Because that seems to be like. When you're an entrepreneur and you start the company. I think a lot of entrepreneurs can very quickly fall into the perspective of like, I'm right. And what I think we should do is right versus I trust the people that I've hired. And so how have you. I guess what I'm asking you is how have you as an entrepreneur grappled with your own ego as your company has built?

That's a great question, Connor. I think for me it's been with the team. What are the sacred cows? What are the things that I just really want to have my fingers on brand culture. So when I look at the vision, I write the painted picture along with some input from others. But I'm signing off on that as here's the vision. Where we're going, how we get there, I don't know. We're going to figure that out as a team. And if you're going to make a decision that will get us to the vision in a different way, let's have a conversation around that. That's okay. But the ending five year, here's where we're going with our painted picture. This is what it looks like. It's not up for negotiation. So it's having the tough conversations with the team and having the level of trust for someone to go, Brian, I think we've got a better way here. I think you might be wrong. I think if we choose to do this, you're making a mistake. I need people to confront me and have the courage to say, I don't agree with you. So again, being the smartest person in the room, if you're the smartest, most powerful person in the room, you don't have an empowered team that's working with you to make you and make the company better.

Yeah, good stuff, Good stuff. All right. Well, for everyone that's out there listening, I would definitely recommend if it's you, if it's somebody that you know, friend, family member, partner, et cetera, are interested or are already starting your own company, starting your own business, definitely head on over and check out Brian's book, BYOB Build you'd Own Business, Be youe Own Boss because it's exceptional, chock full of wisdom outside of the things that we've talked about here. And Brian, where can people go to just kind of follow along on your journey and learn more from you?

Yeah. You know, put Brian Scudamore into Google. You'll find what you're looking for. There's plenty of social media connections, our website, our O2E brands, all sorts of stuff go into, you know, you'll find the book. By putting me into Google, we made the Kindle 99 cents, where we lose money on that. But it was just like, the more people that read it, the better. Because if it inspires someone to take that next step on their journey of entrepreneurship, then I feel I've won.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks to everyone that's out there. Don't forget to share this episode with somebody that you know will benefit from it. And until next week, this is Connor Beaton signing off.

Sa.