Men's Work Session - Healing Your Relationship To Anger

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Welcome back to the Man Talk Show. I'm Connor Beaton, and today is one of those special episodes where I will be interviewing and working with an anonymous guest. Now, this individual had experienced a good amount of hardship and in his childhood, physical abuse and verbal abuse, grew up in a pretty hostile environment and has come on the show to work through a little bit of it because it started to affect his marriage, his parenting. And so, as you'll hear in this interaction, I gather a little bit of data, a little bit of information around what he's going through. And you'll probably notice that I make a bit of an assessment around what's happening and guide him in a very specific direction of being able to use his voice, being able to connect with his own anger, connect with his own power, his own experience, his own voice, and create a situation, a scenario where he's able to express that voice, where he's able to use that power in a way where it was dangerous and threatening for him as a child. So, just a note before we dive in, there was something going on with my audio today that we've sorted out, so I apologize in advance. Maybe you'll notice, maybe you won't notice, but there's a little bit of variance happening in the background of my audio occasionally. So I apologize for that in advance. But enjoy this podcast. Let me know what you thought. DM me on Instagram Man Talks. Let me know if you enjoyed this interview. I'm going to have more of these coming around, specific topics like quitting porn, dealing with anxiety, adhd.

And so if there's specific topics that you'd like to hear, that you'd like.

Me to cover, then. Then again, message me and let me know and we will dive into that subject matter. All right, enjoy this and don't forget.

To man it forward.

Share this episode with somebody that you think would benefit from it, would get.

Something out of it. So here we go. All right, my friend, Mr. Anonymous Guest, how are you doing today?

Pretty good. How about you?

Good, man, good. I appreciate you jumping on and being part of this conversation. I think this is going to be supportive for a lot of people, but most importantly, I hope that it's supportive for you. So why don't we just begin with what brought you here, what brought you to this conversation, and what are you hoping to. To maybe take away or. Or get out of this call this conversation today?

Yeah. So I've been following you for a few years now on Instagram, and I really love just the content that you put out it really has helped me. And so one day you kind of put up a question sticker on your Instagram story and I asked a question, a pretty specific question, and I was actually surprised you responded. No one ever responds to my questions on Instagram. But yeah, you responded and that's kind of what got us here. And so just kind of looking for answers for my question and looking for, I guess, direction and healing from just past experiences.

Yeah, so what, maybe what was your question? Just so that people have some context for that.

Yeah, so my specific question was, how do you learn how to feel and recognize emotions as a man when you've been numb for so long?

Yeah, I think that's probably something that many guys can relate to. And, you know, I think we'll do a couple things today, but maybe we'll just begin with tell me a little bit about the numbness. You know, was there a time in your life where you didn't feel numb? Is there a reason why you had to move towards numbness? So let's just start there.

Yeah, so it pretty much. I think it's pretty clear to me that it goes back to just childhood experiences that I had a lot of physical abuse, verbal abuse and all of that from a pretty young age. And so I think through that it led me to pretty much self protect. And I probably made some vows like, I'm not going to let no one in emotionally. And so as an adult, it's definitely impacted my relationships, it's impacted my marriage. And so that's, I think that's where it all started.

So you closed off, I guess you could say, or shut down a little bit emotionally to protect yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And when you say physical abuse and verbal abuse, was it one person in specific or were there multiple people?

The physical and verbal? Yeah, yeah, it started out just one person, but then like, as I got into school, I was. So because of those experiences, I became like so fear driven that I was like bullied all throughout school and stuff, all through high school in a, in a physical way. And I didn't speak up, I didn't like defend myself in any way. And so, yeah, so originally, yeah, just one person.

Are you comfortable with sharing who that person was?

We'll just say it was a family member.

Okay, sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

How are you feeling talking about this right now? If you just sort of take a breath and tune into your body and just sort of notice, do you feel any energy in the chest or the belly or shoulders?

I feel a little bit of honestly it's hard for me to recognize, like the emotions and all of that.

Okay.

But I definitely, I. It's maybe like a little bit of anxiety or nervousness speaking about it.

Yeah, yeah. So maybe just for the moment, you know, we can worry less about labeling the emotion and we'll just concentrate a little bit more on the sensation. Okay, so when you say a little bit of like nervousness or anxiousness, what does that feel like? Do you feel a buzz? Do you feel tingling? Do you feel heat? Like, just try and describe the sensation.

I would say maybe like a buzz.

In my chest, like right in my heart area.

Okay, good. Yeah, so let's just tune into that for a second. All right. So are you comfortable to close your eyes for a moment?

Yeah. Yeah.

So just allow yourself to close the eyes and then on your next inhale, just deepen the inhale. So let your inhale go a little bit deeper in the body and then extend the exhale, just letting it out. And all I want you to do is to just be in contact with that energy in the chest near the heart. Right. That buzz, that little bit of nervousness or excitement. And when you're ready, to the best of your ability, I just want you to describe that energy. Is it vibrant? Is it.

Constrictive? Does it feel tight? Does it feel big?

I feel like constrictive fits the description, yeah.

Okay, so take another breath and stay in contact with that part. And when you're ready, just make a statement from that experience. So if this part of me could speak, it would say, I don't know.

I feel like I have no words.

Does it feel small?

Yeah.

Yeah. So breathe into it. Right? Just breathe into that part. Be with that part for a moment. And everything that you feel in, it's okay, it's normal, it's natural, nothing wrong. And then just come back to that buzz, that energy. So if this part of me had a shape or a form, it would look like what?

The first thing that came to my mind was the triangle for some reason.

Yeah, that's okay. Does that triangle have any distinctive marks? Is it jagged? Is it big? Does it have a certain color?

I'm seeing like a blue. And see that the edges are very sharp.

Uh huh. Okay, so it's blue, it's very sharp. So keep breathing. Take another deep breath and just stay with that blue triangle, that energy for a moment. Let it expand, let it move around as it needs. And just notice if there's anywhere that it wants to go, if there's anybody that would Want to talk to? Yeah. So right now I'm feeling.

Oh, stuck is the word that comes to mind.

Yeah. Describe the stuck.

It's almost like.

Like if I was tied up in.

A rope or something and I can't. Can't move.

Yeah. Just say how often you feel like that.

Majority of the time.

Yeah. And is that how you felt around this person?

Yeah. And actually, I feel like I felt that we just anyone, especially male relationships.

In my life, this individual was a man.

Yeah.

Okay. So take another breath, and if you're okay with it, I just want you to imagine for a moment that you are going to speak directly to them. So I just want you to say that to them. I felt stuck around you.

I've felt stuck around you and almost crippled around you.

Yeah. Yeah. Keep feeling. You're right there. So saying that to them. Saying that to them feels.

I'd say, liberating.

Yeah. Are you okay to just go a little bit more?

Yeah.

Yeah. So I felt stuck and crippled around you because.

I felt crippled and stuck around you because of the fear that you drilled in me.

Yeah. The things you said to me were.

The things you said to me were piercing.

Yeah. What would they say? What were some of the things that they would say?

They would put the blame on me for telling me it's my fault for certain situations, scream and cuss at me about just anything anytime they were feeling off.

Now, would he say anything in specific? Like, would he use certain swear words or call you certain names?

Yeah, just say. Just call me. So rough and stupid. Yeah. So I don't even normally swear, so.

All right, nice. Stay with what's comfortable. Stay with what's comfortable.

Yeah.

So take another breath. Just breathe. And when you're ready, just say what it's like to speak to this person just right now, in this moment.

It's freeing, but at the same time, very scary.

Yeah, it's scary because.

It's scary because I haven't had a voice around this person.

Yeah, just say that again. That whole thing again.

It's scary because I haven't had a voice around this person.

Yeah. Can you say that directly to them? I haven't had a voice around you.

I haven't had a voice around you.

And not being able to have a voice around you was.

Crippling in all.

Areas of my life.

Yep. Another breath. So how old I feel right now? Just. Just say, how old do you feel right now? Just speaking to him?

I feel like I'm nine years old.

So. Nine years old. So breathe. So now I feel anxious. Yeah. Nine year old me was anxious around this person. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah. Really, really anxious. Did you feel like you had to hide from them?

Almost definitely. It was anytime this person came home from work or anywhere, I always ran to my room to hide all the way up into high school.

Okay, would you just hide in the room or would you hide in certain parts of the room?

I would just go into my room and on my bed pretty much.

Okay, so take another breath. So you have your own kids? Yeah.

Yeah.

So just, just take a breath. I just, I want you to just. If you're up for it, just visualize something for a moment. Okay. So I just want you to see. Do you mind sharing how old your kids are?

Yeah, I have a two year old.

A seven year old and a four year old.

Beautiful. Beautiful. So I just want you to imagine for a moment the seven year olds and I just want you to imagine for a moment this person, this individual in the same space as that seven year old. Okay. So see the seven year old, your child, and then see this individual and just notice what it's like to be in that space, to just see that individual around your child. And when you're ready, just say what you experience.

I feel like I'd have to definitely be there and almost put my 7 year old behind me.

Yeah. So take another breath and just connect to the father in you.

Right.

The father in you that wants to protect that child.

Strength. And now just imagine that that individual was speaking to your child the way that they spoke to you. Right. Yelling, blaming them, maybe cussing at them, swearing, calling them names. Keep breathing and now make a statement about your experience.

I felt angry and I would definitely attack this person.

So take a breath. So if my anger had a voice, it would tell him my anger had a voice.

I would tell him to get away.

Yeah, just say that.

Get away.

One more breath and just all I want you to do is just, if you can close your hands, make fists with your hands, feel your feet on the floor. Breathe a little deeper into the body. So where I feel the anger in my body is clenched. Mm. Yeah. And where I feel it is, do you feel it in your hands and your chest?

My chest?

Mm. Yeah, it feels like. Does it feel hot? Does it feel explosive?

Feels explosive.

Mm, Good. So again, if my anger had a voice, what it would tell that person is, what it would tell him is.

My anger had a voice, it would tell him to stop.

Deep breath, keep breathing and just feel into that energy in the chest, let it move around A little bit. Let it move into the shoulders. Let it move into the neck and throat, into the belly. Let it expand. So my anger wants to say to him.

My anger wants to say to him, you coward.

Say it a little bit louder. Read at him.

You coward.

What else does it want to say? The way you treated me was.

The way you treated me was horrible.

Yeah. If my anger had a sound, it would sound like probably loud. Yeah. Fierce.

Yeah.

You don't necessarily have to do it, but what would it sound like? Would it sound like a roar? Would it sound like a scream? A yellow. Is it a word? If it could just erupt and there was no judgment, there was no shame, there was no restrictions, what would it sound like?

Let's say a scream. Yeah.

So if my anger had no filter and could speak to this man, it would say.

I don't know. I don't know. I have a hard time with this part.

That's okay. It's all right. Yeah. I don't want to direct my anger towards him because I'm worried that.

I'm worried that I would become him.

Tell him that.

I've always been afraid of becoming you.

Yeah.

Allow myself to get angry because I don't want to become you.

Yeah. So what I've done with my anger is when I feel angry, I feel angry.

I shut it down. Yeah.

And I'm out. Close down, shut off. So if my anger could speak to me, it would say.

Say, let me out.

Yeah. Let me out, damn it.

Let me out.

I'm here.

I'm not trying to hurt you. Right. What else does it want to say? What would it sound like if your anger got to say, let me out. If it had permission?

Sound like roar.

Yeah. Give me 10%. Either let me out or.

Let me out. Yeah. Again. Let me out.

Let me out.

Let me out of here.

Let me out of here.

I've had enough of.

I've had enough of hiding.

Deep breath. So now, if my anger could speak to this man, it would say, no.

My anger could speak to this man. It was. See, I despised you for so long.

Yeah. Because the way you treated me was.

The way you treated me was not human.

The things you did to me. The things you said to me were.

The things you said to me. The things you did to me were unthinkable.

If anybody tried to do that to my child, I would.

If anybody tried to do that to my child, I would. Choked him.

Yeah.

So this is the part of you. This is the protector. This is the part of you that you didn't have as a boy, brother. You didn't know how to protect yourself as a child. You were innocent. You were young. You were small. You didn't know how to protect yourself. And this man, I would imagine was supposed to protect you.

Yeah.

He's supposed to protect you. He didn't. So go back in for a moment. Take a breath. Yeah. So hearing that feels.

Hearing that feels. Sad. Unfortunate.

Right now, my eyes feel. And my face feels.

I don't know. I'd say tight.

Okay. Yeah. Tight. So just be with that tension for a moment. Just notice it. Trying to lock everything down, Trying to hold it all in, trying to protect you. All right. This is how you learn to protect yourself. Closing off, shutting down, holding it in, closing down, shutting it off, holding it in. Tension, anxiousness, fear. It seems like you know what you feel. So just take another breath and then just let that tension, let that tightness speak for a moment. If it had a voice, what would it say?

If it had a voice, it would say, I feel tense.

Yeah. I can't relax.

Yeah.

I can't relax. Or what will happen?

Can't relax because I will be judged.

That sounds tiring. That sounds exhausting.

Yeah.

So I'm just gonna make a statement, and I just want you to tell me it feels true.

Okay.

So you had no one to stand up for you. You had no one to protect you.

It's true. Yeah.

Keep breathing. Doing great. Yeah. So if my. If my kids didn't have somebody to protect them, I'd feel.

If I had my kids, didn't have anyone to protect them, I would feel sad for them, hurt for them.

Yeah. So not having anybody protect me was.

Not having anyone to protect me was scary.

Yeah. And I learned to protect myself by.

Learning to protect myself, by not allowing myself to feel emotion, not sharing what I was thinking. Feeling just kind of blocked it out.

So you learn to protect yourself by shutting down, by not telling other people how you felt.

Or what you needed or what you wanted or if you were angry or sad. Say, I don't think that you've actually been numb. I think that you've just been afraid to tell people how you feel. So the numbness was just a protection mechanism to keep you safe. Does that feel true?

Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

So just take one more breath. We're just going to do one more thing, and then we're going to have a little bit of a conversation. Okay. Well, let me ask you this first. What's the price you've paid? What's the price you've paid. Your marriage has paid. Your family has paid for you not being able to express yourself in this way. Cutting yourself off from your anger, shutting down, staying numb. What's the price you've paid? Your family's paid so much.

So much stuff. I can think of not being able to really mourn friends and family that have passed over the years. Not being able to fully open up to my wife, and it's affected our relationship.

Yeah. If she was. If she was in the room right now, I'd want to tell her.

If she was in the room right now, I would want to tell her that it's not her, it's me.

Okay.

I'm sorry for communicating to you through my actions that I don't trust you. When it's not. It's not her, it's. I don't trust myself to Phil.

Yeah. But I'm. I'm ready to fight. For what?

Yeah, I'm ready for. I'm ready to fight for our marriage in my life.

Yeah, see? See that last part again? I'm. I'm ready to fight for my life. Just say that and. And see if you mean it. I. I want you to just like. I want you to say it in a way where it's so clear that it comes from your heart. So tune into your heart. Tune in the core of your being. Almost as if you just say it and she knows it's true. Unquestionable. She's like, yeah, he means that shit. So take a moment, take a breath, and when you're ready, say it.

I'm ready to fight for my life.

Again, a little louder.

I'm ready to fight for my life. Yep.

Louder. I'm ready to fight for my life.

I'm ready to fight for my life.

Yeah. I'm ready to fight for my damn life.

I'm ready to fight for my damn life.

Yeah. I'm not gonna hide anymore.

I'm not gonna hide anymore.

I'm not gonna run.

I'm not gonna run.

I'm gonna stand and fight.

I'm gonna stand and fight.

Yeah. Take a breath. Another breath. Are you ready to fight?

Yes. Definitely.

Yeah. You learn to protect yourself by closing down, by shutting off, by running away. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. You were a child, man. You were 7, 8, 9 years old, 10 years old. Of course, that's what we do when we're kids, right? We protect. It's like we have no other choice, especially when somebody is so much bigger than us. Overpowering, losing, loud, abusive. Right. We have no choice. You, in some ways were powerless, but you've continued to act like you're powerless. You're not. Right. You're not powerless, but you've continued to act like you are. So we're going to do one last thing. Okay? So close the eyes again. And I want you to feel that same intensity. I'm ready to fight for my life. I want you to feel that intensity and take a deep breath. And I want you to go back into your childhood home. I just want you to visualize it, Visualize your room, visualize the living room. And I just want you to visualize this person, this man, speaking to the younger version of you. Nine year old you. Right. So this man is yelling at younger you, criticizing him, swearing at him, blaming him. Maybe he's physical with him. And I want father in you that's witnessing that, to confront him. So when you're ready, I just want you to say what you experience, witnessing that.

I feel angry.

And what do you want to say? What would you want to do?

I. Probably not. Probably. I would. I wouldn't say anything. First, I would grab the person and then speak.

Yeah. Yeah. So you grab them, get them away from younger you. Right. And then say. Say what? Speak directly to them.

What are you doing?

Breathe. My anger could speak. It would tell them.

Tell them. Get away.

Enough. That's it. No more.

Take another breath. And again, just like you did before, I want you to give it a little bit more oomph so that they really get it. So it's so clear. I want you to feel. And even if you can put your hand over top of your. Over your belly, your abdomen, crank up the volume, maybe just 10%, and let it be fierce like that roar like you were talking about before. So if my anger could speak to them, it would say.

What are you doing? Get away.

That's enough.

Leave him alone.

Leave him alone.

Breathe and say that one more time.

Leave him alone.

You are no longer allowed to.

You're no longer allowed to touch him.

That's right.

Speak to him that way.

Good. Say that again. Really, really. Good job. Say that again.

You're no longer allowed to touch him.

And to speak to him that way.

Never again. You will never touch him or speak to him like that ever again.

Never again. You will never touch him or speak.

To him like that again.

Good. All right. Good job. Keep breathing. So just describe what you're feeling in your body right now.

I felt like a release.

Yeah? Where?

In my chest. I don't know. I always Feel it goes back to my chest.

Yeah. So release of some of that tension, some of that anxiousness, some of that constriction. Good.

Yeah.

So just see if you can breathe into that release. Stay in contact with that release. Let it expand a little bit. Maybe there's some space there.

Right.

You just connect it to some of your own strength, some of your own power, your own voice, your ability to protect yourself. So, last question. So what I know now that I didn't know before is what I know.

Now that I didn't know before was that I have the ability to speak up.

Yeah. When you. When you're ready, I would just love for you to open the eyes and look at me and tell me that.

I have the ability to speak up.

Yeah. One more time.

I have the ability to speak up.

Saying that feels free.

Yeah.

The little boy in you wasn't free. Right. He didn't have a lot of freedom. He was constantly worrying about what was going to happen or how he's going to be treated or if he did the wrong thing, said the wrong thing. Right.

Yeah.

So I'm just gonna recap a little bit, but do you wanna say anything else about the experience, the exercise I walked you through?

Yeah. I think at first it feels. I felt like a little unsure, but I think now, yeah, I just feel. I feel like a freedom.

Good.

Yeah.

Good. Few things. All right. Many things. I think first, if you're open to it and you'd be willing to come back on, I think there's some other stuff that we should do around this. So that's just the first thing I'll offer. Okay. You're like, I'm never coming back.

Screw this, man. What are you talking about? So that's first. Second, a lot of this, brother, is about protection, okay? There was no one there to protect you, and so you just learned what we call a maladaptive way of protecting yourself. Maladaptive just means not a great way.

Right.

It probably worked back then, right? Because you had to. You had to be small. You had to be quiet, you know, you had to constrict yourself and you had to be on high alert all the time, and that's what kept you safe. But it's maladaptive now because, as you can see, it's not working in your marriage, right? Playing being small, constricting yourself, not speaking up, not standing your ground. Sometimes not saying what you need or you want. That's not working. It's not working for you as a father or a husband. And so it's shifted. So what needs to happen is stepping into your own voice, being able to speak up, even if it's cumbersome at first and hard. It's going to be hard. It's going to be challenging. Right. Just because I walked you through an exercise on this call today doesn't mean you're going to be able to go out and say, hey, you know, I don't want to do that, or I don't think that we should do that, or whatever it is. Right. Whatever feels challenging, confronting for you. But you're going to have to risk speaking up, using your voice. And the other thing is you get to make friends with your own anger. All right? Anger is not a bad thing. You just saw somebody abuse it. Right. You saw somebody who was consumed by their anger. Right. So they had explosive anger and you had implosive. Right. So their anger was very outward focused. And your anger has been very inward focused, very repressed. I would imagine if we talked for long enough, you'd tell me about how you shame yourself. You judge yourself. Right. You're hard on yourself. Are those things true?

True? Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. So you just went in the opposite direction. So we have to find some middle ground. Your anger's not a bad thing. You just get to learn how to use it properly. Because he didn't know how to use his anger.

Yeah, Right.

His was violent and aggressive and abusive. Yours is just maybe violent, aggressive, and abusive towards you. So the hard thing is you've carried on his legacy a little bit just towards yourself. Maybe not to anybody else, but just towards yourself.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

So if you're open to it, I'd love to have you back on any final questions, comments that you just want to put out, and I'm going to give you a little exercise really quick before we stop.

Okay?

Yeah.

I would say my main question would be because my main focus right now is me not allowing it any longer to affect my marriage, I guess.

How would I. How should I go about stopping it? Like, you know, like a lot. What it really affects is my wife really just knowing me at the deepest level, you know?

Yes. Yes. So let's. Let's just start small. Okay?

Yeah.

All I want you to practice for right now is tuning into the sensation. Just like I got you through today. Tune into the sensation. I think you actually know when you're feeling anxious, when you're feeling scared or afraid, when you're feeling angry, you're able to identify those things. You know, you. You did a great job today. You're like, oh, I didn't even have to prompt you. Like, I feel ang.

You know?

So what I want you to practice is labeling those things with your partner, with your wife. Right? So if you feel angry about something, just say that, you know, I feel angry right now. If you feel like you're shutting down, say that. If you feel anxious about something, say that. Right. If you feel like I feel like I'm protecting myself, say that. So just start to practice acknowledging your experience. Acknowledge your own experience because it's the thing that you didn't get to do as a kid. Wasn't safe for you to say, I feel angry or I feel hurt by what you're doing, you know, or I just feel hurt right now or I feel scared right now. That wasn't safe for you, right. What would happen if you did that as a kid?

It was bad. It was bad.

Yeah. It was backlash. Right. You got punished for that. So you, you get to start to practice doing that in a safe environment. So I want you today or tomorrow to talk to your wife and tell her what we covered in this session and that specifically. And you might want to write this down after we get off this conversation to write down to say, I'm going to start practicing telling you what I'm feeling. I'm going to start practicing telling you what's going on inside of me. But it's really important that it's safe for me to do so because I, I haven't done it because as a kid, there was some pretty messed up consequences when I did.

Yeah.

Okay. And so bring her into the equation. Tell her what you're going to do, you know, get, get her buy in, for lack of a better term, so that she knows, oh, this is what we're doing. This is where we're going. Right. You're going to start opening up. You're going to start telling me how you, what you're feeling, whether it's anger or sadness or anxiousness or fear or protection or whatever it is. And I'm going to be there for it. I'm going to hear it. And you don't need her to do anything. Right. There's no problem solving that needs to happen. It's not about fixing it. It is just for the time being about labeling what you're experiencing. Okay.

Yeah.

Awesome. So that's the homework.

All right. All right, my friend, good to see you. Thank you so much for joining in. For everyone that is, that is out there. If you know somebody that could benefit from this conversation about numbness because I feel like it's something that's very common, something that I dealt with for a long time, and it definitely meant it forward. But, brother, thank you so much for joining me. And until next time, we're signing up.

Sam.