“Deals with Heels: Debra Bowers on Growth & Female Empowerment”

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Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show podcast. The podcast show where we unlock potential one dream at a time. Today we have another guest whose journey is truly worth hearing. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the Moneyway experience.

What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show in association with Believe Network, the podcast where we dive into stories of success, leadership, and resilience. I'm your host, CJ Moneyway, and today's guest is someone who has made a powerful impact in the world of sales, marketing, and female empowerment. Deborah is a sales and marketing guru with decades of experience in driving business growth through creative strategies. She's the founder of Hectagon Media, a full-service marketing agency, and the host of Deals with Heels, where female entrepreneurs strive, a podcast dedicated to marketing strategy, mindset, and personal growth. But Deborah's story doesn't end there. She's also a dedicated advocate for women's issues and have built her success on a foundation of resilience and emotional strength. Deborah, welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show. We honored to have you today.

Woo! Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Yeah, Deb, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate the 20-minute conversation we had before we came on, a fellow podcaster. So Deb, your career spans decades working across all forms of sales and marketing. Can you share with us how your journey began and what eventually led you to start Hectagon Media.

Well, you know, I was really raised in a small town in Oklahoma in the '70s and '80s growing up, typical Gen X. And I did the thing that you're supposed to do, right? I graduated top of my class in high school. I went to college at Oklahoma State University, and I didn't really know very much about sales and marketing. I think I was about a junior in college and my friends, we started with 4 girls living in this house. And then as they graduated, of course, you fill in with a new roommate. And this boy had moved in with us, Dan, and he was running the OSU Foundation telemarketing department, raising money for scholarships and stuff. And they only hired students. So, well, you know, all of us girls went and got a job working for Dan because You know, our boss is our roommate. And so turns out I was pretty good at it. And my senior year, I was telemarketer of the year, raised more money than anybody else. All my media went out with every donor. Everything was snail mail back then. And, uh, so that was really my first purposeful sales job. I was waiting tables when I was 12 years old, and that of course is sales, and you don't realize it when you're a kid. If that's what you're doing. But that was really my first experience, and I immediately started taking marketing classes and business classes. I was a communications major before that, and so I hurried and got a minor and all that, got a job in corporate world and working sales and marketing immediately, and got married and was just doing that whole thing. And lost one marriage, got married again, blended our family, and immediately had 4 kids under the age of 7. And, you know, you can't both work 60 hours a week and expect your 4 kids under the age of 7 to grow up and be decent human beings. And so my marketing career really took a step back, and I think that's pretty common with women. We give and give and give, and everybody's needs are more important than ours, and That certainly was true for me. And I think, of course, there's women that do a better job and not completely losing themselves in the process. But for me, I was so focused on survival, really, right? You know, making enough money for 4 kids. And then later I adopted another and having all that money and you make decisions together based on survival, as opposed to, is this Deborah's soul path? Is this what I really love and what I really want to do? Is this— I mean, those kind of thoughts don't enter your mind. You're thinking about, you know, new shoes and back to school and football practice. And very little of it had to do with what I was passionate about. And as my marriage struggled, I just lost more and more and more of myself. And I worked— I did a variety of different things. I ran, uh, my husband's construction company for about 8 years. I did always do marketing consulting on the side. And then in 2020, my marriage fell apart. My last kid, my adopted son, he graduated from high school that year. My nest was empty and my marriage had fallen apart. And then my mother died. And my mom was my person. I'm not someone that's easily vulnerable with others. And so I, and I had isolated myself during my poor marriage, right? Rather than admit something's wrong to one of my friends who might slap me around and tell me some truth to my face that I wasn't prepared to make decisions about, then I was isolated. Too. And just in the midst of grief, I had lost a significant amount of weight. I stress don't eat, and that's just as bad because you end up frail. And I was an athlete. I do kickboxing now. It's— I didn't feel like myself. And I was unemployed, alone, and lost. I just didn't— I was a ghost of myself is what I was. And My ex-husband gambled our entire life savings away. I really had nothing, and I was 53 years old. So what are you going to do, right? My mom told me something my whole life. It's weird, she didn't tell any of my siblings this, but anytime I was having a problem, a struggle, from the time I was small until right before she died, she would tell me the same thing. After she comforted me, she'd give me a little bit of comfort like a Gen X mom would, right? Little pat, you'll be all right, walk it off. And but then she would say, well, Deborah, you have two legs, stand on them. And so what was I going to do? And so I made some non-negotiable boundaries with myself. At the time, I was doing a little temp job and I would, on my way home, I would, I would stop and pick up fast food and I'd sit on my bed and watch TV and eat my dinner and eventually go to sleep and then wake up there in the same spot. And I thought, you know, here I am in my 50s and I've got so much to do. I've got so much left to do and I damn sure can't do it feeling like this. And so I said, this is it. Non-negotiable boundaries. After a lot of tears, a lot of time spent on my knees, I reached way back to some old friends, my first ex-husband, and people that I could feel vulnerable with because I had to do something. And so my first non-negotiable boundary was one, I'm not going to eat fast food. Period. I'm not going to eat fast food. I'm going to eat food that, that's good. I love to cook. I live in a house with open concept. So I'm also not going to eat in my bedroom. I'm not going to watch TV in my bedroom. And so if I'm out here and I'm not eating fast food and the kitchen's right here, then I will cook. And I think I've eaten fast food about 5 times since then.

Wow.

I've gone without it for so long that if I'm driving and I'm hungry, looking for a fast food place, I don't even do it. I don't even do it. It's like not an option. Somebody will say, well, why don't we just pull over there? Oh, well, I didn't even think about that. We could maybe go pick something up. It just became like a thing, right?

Yeah.

So that, that was like the first little promise that I made to myself. And then it was to get strong, to gain my strength back. And let me tell you, it isn't easy to build muscle when you're in your 50s. And, but I did it, and I've gained all of that weight back. So that was good. And, and muscle. I look good. I weighed 138 pounds today. I weighed 115 at my lowest when I was in the— really immersed in grief. So It didn't take long and I started feeling strong and feeling back to my normal self and remembering who I was and just kind of exploring what I wanted to do. And I applied for some marketing jobs and I did some temp work. I worked on a campaign training their sales reps, their petitioners that were going out and getting signatures here in Oklahoma. If we want something, our legislators are not going to give that to us. We have to get a state question and all go vote on it. And that's just, it's a very conservative state. And so I was working on a campaign training their petitioners to get signatures. Just, you know, that's a really good lesson that I don't ever want to do that ever again. Like 35 people that worked for me directly. And let me just tell you, I don't ever want to do that again. But, you know, getting back into really full-fledged marketing, I went in and I'm a lifelong learner. So. I really kept up on a lot of all the marketing stuff and I did so much consulting and of course marketing for the businesses that I did run in industries I didn't care about. But ultimately I ended up starting my agency and Hexagon Media. And then about a year later started my podcast and I just took over my podcast as solo host. My friend and soul sister Christina had to take a step back and That was really devastating. That was in October, and I launched as solo host on episode 50. So it was a really big accomplishment to make it through that and be able to not just talk about it on my podcast, but actually do it and pivot and take it the full distance and succeed. I did it myself. I was really, I'm really proud of myself. I put a studio in my house and I'm really proud of myself to do— I did it all by myself. And hey, this is saying something, right?

I mean, yeah, you should be proud of yourself, Deb. You know, like you say, you said 115, now you're at 138, looking good too. And by the way, I guess that's something we didn't talk about in the beginning. If I ever come to Oklahoma and see you in a dark alley, I'm going the other way because I did not know you was a kickboxer. So, uh, I don't want no smoke with you. Now, so you brought up starting your own business and you was excited to do the things that you was doing. So starting your own business was a big leap. What challenges did you face when launching Hectagon Media and how did you overcome them?

I think the biggest challenge for me was I'm one of those annoying people that's pretty good at most things that I try to do. And not everything, but most things. And I ran big marketing departments in corporate America, so I can do all kinds of marketing. And it was difficult to focus on and get real niche on what I wanted to do the most. Cause I like, I'm a marketing person. I like to spend money. Let's do some fun. Let's make some money, but we're going to spend some. We're going to have some fun. We're going to make a lot of money. And I like to do a lot of different things and my creativity works in a way that when I'm brainstorming a campaign and we're talking about it, it might explode. We may be, we're going to be doing radio. I got some public appearances for you. And that may not be what any of my other clients are doing, but that's where it went for that person. And it was hard for me because agencies and my industry in general is very segmented right now. You have content creators and social media people and videographers and web developers and graphic designers. And digital media companies. And I think to most entrepreneurs, they all do the same thing. And I didn't feel comfortable niching in any of those areas, but I can do all of those areas. And so it was kind of frustrating and not knowing exactly which way to go. And as I worked with clients and did different types of projects for them, it came. Right. It just kind of organically happens. You just end up going in that certain way and figure it out. So really what I do best is strategy. I do make content, but it is typically surrounding campaign. So it's very planned out and I really am focused on doing marketing that sells because there's a ton of people out there already making marketing and content that doesn't. And I think it's not an insult for me to say that. I think there's a difference between marketing for your business as an entrepreneur and marketing, making content on social media to become an influencer and make money off content. And it's easy when you're on, when you're a small business owner to see content creators and video people and all of that. And want to hire that and not realize that that's really targeted towards goals that aren't for your roofing company or whatever it is you're doing, right? Unless you're gonna be on all the time. And if you were gonna make videos all the time and be on, you wouldn't need a content creator. You'd be doing it yourself, first person. So I think there's kind of a mix-up and I really felt that. Because somebody had asked me if I made content. Well, yeah, I make all kinds of content. Okay, well, I don't make that content. Not only do I not make that content, I don't think that's going to sell a lot for you right now. It's a marathon to get that. So it was hard for me. So I really focus on strategy and planning and then implementing those plans specifically. And then if there's part of that plan that, for example, is content creation, they want to post lots daily, then I'm I'm gonna sub that to somebody or put it in-house with another person so that, cuz that's, that's not the best use of me or my time for that.

And so, yeah, like that was one of the lessons we learned on podcast: automate, delegate, and eliminate.

Yes.

Yeah.

And man, AI has made all of that so much easier. All of the recording platforms have really added in, and that definitely helped me decide to bring it in-house. If I had to go through and pick shots and remove every little, um, and ah, and all of that, it would be way too tedious for me, and I wouldn't be able to do it myself. So that made it a lot easier.

Wait till I send you this link for what we were talking about earlier. It's going to make it even more broader and, and, and Oh yeah.

Uh, I'm fired up about it. I'm super fired up about it.

So Deb, you've been talking about strategy and how that, you know, how some of us, that's your lane and this is my lane, strategy and marketing. So you're known for your expertise in creative strategy. What's your philosophy on creating marketing campaigns that truly drive business growth?

Really, the key to it is more than anything else, it is targeting it, right? Who's seeing it? Where's it going? Who are those people? And are the people that are seeing it really the ones that are gonna buy your service? And I think people have in their mind what they think their target is and who they think their customers are. But when you sit down and start talking and asking people questions, then you really see, okay, look, you got 4 or 5 different actual targets. And they all use different media platforms. They watch different programming. Some of them are on TikTok. Some of them are on Facebook. Some of them are on LinkedIn. You know, they're all everywhere and it's difficult. Most people don't have one that they, that it's only that. It's mixed, right? So it might be, yeah, older people can buy our services. They like this one in particular. So that over 55 group is good, but also this other group of families, they really like this level of our service. And so families are over here. Knowing who those people are is really important. And I'll give you a good example. And this is really important when you're doing your branding. Branding is more than what your business looks like. It's more than your values. It's your pricing structure. It's how you deal with complaints. It's how you're going to package it. So as an example, If you decided you're gonna be priced very competitively and you're gonna go toe to toe with the low-cost provider in your market because you're gonna rip them in and then you're gonna maybe sell them something else. You've got a loss leader out there, so you're gonna go head to head with the low-cost provider. Then you know you're gonna have to sell volume. You're not gonna be able to offer that full boat service that you're used to cuz you're not gonna have time. You've gotta get through customers quickly to add up the profits that you need to have that little of profit margin. So you best not show up in that big $75,000 truck with its $15,000 wrap on it and all of the—

right?

That's totally not geared towards the low-cost provider. I need you to come in with something that looks like you're not charging me more than it's supposed to cost.

Yeah.

But on the flip side of that, if you have a very high-end product or service that you're selling and You've got that wall-to-wall service. You provide everything. The client doesn't have to do anything for themselves. So your audience is that wealthier, upper-income kind of person, then you best not have a discount. If you get a discount and you price that low, then it has no value. They think, well, there's something wrong with it. That's discounted. You need to look that part and those people. Are on different websites, different apps, looking at different— they have different friends on those apps. Everything about where they spend their time is different. And so targeting the right message on the right platform with the right offer and the right bait and hook is critical. It's the most important thing you can do. You can never spend too much time talking about your target audience.

Mm. Uh, I like that. I like that. And speaking of target audience and things of that nature, so we have both traditional and digital advertising. They continue to evolve, right? How do you stay on top of these changes and how important is continuous learning in your field?

For me, it's critical. Lifelong learning's one of my core values. I really am a nerd. I love information. I hide it well, but if I didn't have a desire to look cute, I would have unmatching wrinkle clothes and a pocket protector for my pens. And so for me, it's about— I do a lot of reading and I read a lot online. I have narrow angle glaucoma. I've got a little bit of damage to my optic nerve that affects how I see light. It's hard for me to read paperbacks without shining a bright light on them. So I read a lot online, but And I do listen to some podcasts too, but honestly, reading and the new stuff that comes out. I also like to get really good guests that are experts in certain things that I want to learn about too. And that there's parts of marketing that I'm not an expert in. And so I'll have somebody that's an expert in that on my show so I can learn.

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Learn from them too, but it, it's important. And for me, it's really reading, but there's a lot of things that people can do. There's a lot of courses you can take, and I've taken a lot of those online classes, digital classes, Google classes for a small business. Those are always valuable.

You know, it's funny when you say read. Now, I didn't graduate at the top of my class like you. I might have been at the bottom, at somewhere near the bottom, but You know, I never forget you said something your mother told you. And so my father used to read the Sunday papers, you know, every Sunday. That was his bathroom time, and he would read the Sunday's paper. He didn't care about me and my mother going to church. That was his day. And so I would ask for the comics, you know, I would ask for the comic section. And one day he said, he said, hey man, you gotta read more than just the comics. And so since then, to this day now, I read everything, you know, like I can't eat without reading, you know, saying something. I have to read what's going on in the news. I have to, you know, keep up with certain things. I'm not an avid book reader, but I, you know, I read every single day just to stay current and stay up. And that, that was one of the things that he told me, gotta stop reading the comic books all the time and know about what's going on. In your surroundings. As you say, I have no problem looking up things that I'm interested in, or, you know, saying things of that nature, and Google and stuff like that. And ChatGPT has made it more convenient for us to get information, right?

You just— those prompts of, I'm interested in learning about search engine marketing, put a learning plan together for me, and it'll tell you exactly what classes that you need to take if you want to learn this, that, or the other. It's crazy. That's, I think, great application for AI is using it for things like that. I think although they are getting so much more realistic, authenticity is what sells. And so I think it's important that human element is still there. For all the copywriters out there, when I read something that has a true human anecdote to it, you can tell.

Yeah, you can. There's a difference And, you know, we'll see where it go with it. But some of the people that I've had come on that, you know, AI, uh, experience or experts, as you said, that nature seems a little grim in some areas, but I won't touch on that right now. So Deb, let's switch gears a little bit because you're also empowerment for women. That, that's one of your key things. You know, when I started my podcast, that was one of the reasons why I wanted to because I seen a lot of women empowerment podcasts out there, you know, women doing their thing, but I didn't see a lot of things for men as far as us growing. I'm not saying that it's none out there, but you know, you have like a lot of sports podcasts and things of that nature, but I wanted to do something. My desire was to do something for me, and so that's what I'm doing now with the Planting Seeds with CJ. That's what inspires me. So you're passionate about empowering female entrepreneurs and addressing issues like domestic violence, uh, sexual exploitation, and earning inequality. What inspired you to become such a strong advocate for women?

You know, really, it's personal experience and realizing when I lost myself, right? And there I was. Why, why did that happen to me? How did I let that happen to me? And having to fight through corporate America as a woman, trying to get equal pay, for example, is— would they hide it intentionally from you, right? So that you don't know. They'll fire you for finding out what somebody else made. And I was always very, very good. I was a kid that I found my value through accomplishment. My father died when I was really young and I grew up with a single mom and, and I could always feel really emotionally tied to her happiness. And it was kind of a, I don't know, in a lot of ways it wasn't good for me to be like that, but it affected how I dealt with everything, right?

Um, hey, Deb, now your podcast.

Oh, the women— yeah, the women empowerment thing. It— I'm sorry, uh, talking about my mom sometimes, yeah, hits me in an emotional way, and then I'm flooded with all those memories and I lose track of it. For me, it was about finding my voice again, my real voice. My kids will tell you she never lost her voice. She had a loud voice, but I lost my voice, my inner voice, and being able— I would want to say something on social media or in person or out loud, or I would want to support a woman who was being treated poorly, and I wouldn't because I was concerned about what somebody else would think. I would post something and someone would react negatively to it, and I would delete that post because I wasn't confident in my skin. I wasn't even sitting in my own skin. I was uncomfortable, worried about every little thing and what every little person was going to think. And I, I was going to solve it. If somebody was upset with me, I was going to solve that. And it's taken me a long time, but now I will tell you that if something that I'm saying or that I'm doing or that I'm wearing makes you really upset, then you should try to figure out why. Because I don't have anything to do with you, and I promise you I ain't having a second thought about you or what you're doing. This is me, and it doesn't matter what happens around me. All kinds of chaos and craziness and insults and goodness and everything can be going on around me, and this is me, and I am not changing. And if you don't like it, then that is that don't have me around you. Yeah, I mean, there's 7 billion people on the planet. If you don't like me, there's an easy replacement to find, and that's okay. It's not a character flaw. So for me, it's about helping other women find their voice, because once they have their voice and their confidence, all that other shit goes away.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Because the day women stand together The day we stand together as the majority that we are is the day that our rights are equal. And I think that there's a misconception amongst anti-feminists and people that think that feminists want to take control and punish men and society for having their foot on our throat, so to speak. And honestly, What we really want more than anything else, anything else, is to be able to jog at night in the woods by ourselves with our earbuds in. Mm. If we can do that and feel safe and be safe and actually be safe and not have to worry about rapists and murderers and people assaulting us and robbing us, because I'll tell you right now, it is 100% impossible for any of us to do that. And you think about the women in your life. If one of them comes and says, I'm gonna go jogging in the woods and it's 10 o'clock at night and I'm gonna go by myself. Myself. I'm taking this awesome hip-hop beat because I like it and it keeps me going. You gonna let her go? Hell no. Hell no, I'm not letting my person go. And so the things that have to change in society to make it safe for women to be able to do that will solve everything else.

And you know, not only with what the things that you said, I also have to— you talk about running in the woods Better watch out for Yogi Bear out there. That's another thing. So everybody check out Deborah Browzer on Deals with Heels on her podcast platform and find out all about her women empowerment. What she told me, she only interviews women, and I can respect that. So Deb, got one and two more questions for you. I know you're a busy lady and you got your own thing going on. Now let's pivot one more time. Your spiritual healing journey has been pivotal to your success. Can you tell us more about how that journey influenced your mindset and business approach?

Boy, without that, I wouldn't be here. I'm sitting more in my own skin than I have been in two decades, and the only way that happened was from me getting in touch with my inner self and my own spirit. And whether somebody does that— I was not capable of doing that through organized religion. So I was raised Catholic. I get a lot of peace from ritual because of that, because that's, you know, you go to— I can go to a Catholic church anywhere in America and it's the exact same. And so there's a certain amount of peace that's involved in that, but their systematic suppression of women over a couple of millennia makes it impossible me to participate. And so for me, it was— I really started meditating about 15 years ago and really getting in touch with myself, my own inner spirit, my soul. That's where my purpose is. That's where I find what I'm supposed to do in my life. That's where I found my own skin again. And look, 15 years ago I started, and I was meditating But until I made it all the way through until 2020 and 2021, when my whole life collapsed around me, if I wouldn't have already had that— and let me tell you, I was like a different person than I— it's like a totally different person than I am right now. But I had a little bit of that foundation that I was already able to meditate. It was incredibly more difficult to do it when I was so upset., but it was the foundation of my whole spiritual healing journey was not only just getting to know myself, but getting to know the things that trigger me, the things that today, you know, you get, I'm upset, CJ did something and boy, I'm lit on fire for the whole rest of the afternoon. And so I'm triggered and. I came to realize that I didn't want— I didn't want to feel like that anymore. And I didn't understand why I felt that way, because I don't feel that way about CJ, and I don't understand why I'm so pissed off. And now I've said something and he's mad at me, and I don't even know what's going on. And I didn't want to feel like that anymore. And so I started— I actually went to grief counseling, and Fred, my grief counselor, taught me so much about being triggered and I was actually in fight or flight and all of those things. And so I, when I would meditate and I would think about those things, I would be able to see previous things in my life that was taking me back to, and really counseling helped me identify that. He really talked me through different things in my life that maybe could be making me feel that way. And then I would think back and remember, and then after a while, I I could just do it, right? I'd be like, whoo, you're really, you're really feeling all warm and hot and bought all upset about some stuff. And I would think about it and I would get inside myself and spend time alone. And I kind of felt crazy doing it a little bit because I would talk to my young self, right?

Yeah.

And say, hey, you know, it's okay that, you know, Mom whatever happened that, or your friends were mean to you, and now every time somebody says that, you get upset, but you didn't realize that's what it was. But now I do realize, I think that's where it's coming from. But what do you do? How do you heal that? And I didn't know how to do it, but this is how I did it. I talked to myself, to my young Deborah self, and I do it in my mind, or sometimes I would do it out loud even, and I would just say, you know, it's okay. You know, they were just kids too. They didn't mean that either. And it's okay that you felt that way. You don't have to feel that way anymore. You don't have to feel it today. And I would have those conversations with myself. And then I had this picture of myself that I found from the first grade. And I had it sitting next to this picture of my mama and my grandma, you know, like three generations, but it was not framed or anything. And I would I don't know why, but it's kind of in that I was about that age when I was getting bullied a little bit when I was a kid. And I would just look at that picture while I was getting ready to leave my bedroom, you know, out for my day. And I would look, you're a badass little bitch, aren't you?

Look at you.

You know, just uplifting my old self so that when something out here happens that I don't have an emotional reaction to it anymore. And it's It seemed, it seemed crazy, I'll be honest, but I didn't know how else to do it. And there's a, like some people can do it with journaling and I'm a communications person. I guess that's why I needed to do it, but I will tell you that I healed a ton of triggers that way. Even if I couldn't picture that old self in my mind and know exactly where it was coming from, I'd still talk to myself through it, like whatever it is that's triggering you to feel this way in the here and now about some dumb shit that you, you know, some dumb stuff that rationally you're like, I have no idea why I feel this way. It's so, you know, and I can talk myself out of it and get through it. And that's my way of healing it. And it really helped. And so for me, spiritual healing had to do with all of that. It's all wrapped up in there and yeah, we're not in control. And that's me taking back control of that trigger. And I listened to a lot of Sadhguru. He's like a— I don't know if you've heard of him or not, but you should get him on your show. I don't know if you even could get him on your show, but he can't be on mine. But he's the one who really got me thinking of the You know, this is me and my way, and it doesn't matter what happens out here. Doesn't matter what they do. That's not you. That's them. This is my way. And as soon as I feel something that's not me, my way, I want to figure it out in my own mind, not with them. It isn't their problem. I may be mad at them, but I promise you it's not their fault. Most of the time, if you're just emotional about something, it's your subconscious thinking you're going into fight or flight because you had a time in your past that something happened that was upsetting to you. And now your parasympathetic nervous system is like, ooh, I remember this. Let's get on guard. You don't even know you're doing it. You just know you're pissed off. And most of the time it's not even at the situation you're in. It's definitely the emotion isn't. You know, the emotion isn't there. And now it's weird when it happens, but I'll have something that is, it is upsetting. I had a client bounce a big check. It's upsetting, right? It affects your cash flow. You gotta, so it was a time that I might've lost my mud in the past. And I was sitting there, well, you're pretty calm. You realize it's one of the first times that I wasn't super triggered by something financial. Because I had healed a bunch of that. And it feels weird, like there's something wrong with you the first time. Like, boy, you got to really— you don't care anymore. But that's really the way it's supposed to be. I just spent 58 years learning how to do it another way.

Mm. Yeah, I like that. And to that first grade bully, meet Deborah in the Oklahoma alley right now. Get your kickboxing on. Let's see who comes out on top. Hey, so Deb, just to outline some things, you also, you know, do charity work and things to that nature, uh, nonprofit missions. Talked about it earlier how you raised 5 children. So, and I guess this would be my last question for you, after years of experience in business and life, you know, I appreciate you coming on, being transparent about the the things that has transpired in your life and things of that nature. What is one of the biggest lessons you've learned that you'd like to share with our audience?

I used to have this motto, and it was— and I learned it from experience— and it was, in life, you got to inspect what you expect, because everybody's suspect. And I kind of modified it a little bit because you got to inspect what you expect, because expectations are the root of all evil and having expectations of other people and that they don't even know about, right? We don't even talk about the expectations. You just got it in your mind that they should be this way. They don't even know. So really what I've learned is that having those expectations bring nothing but unhappiness to you because true freedom is just loving people and knowing they're the right people in your life and not worrying about who's liking their page and whose photos are they looking at and is that client shopping somewhere else and having all that worry and expectations of how the people in your life are supposed to act and placing rules upon them only serve to bring you things to make you upset about. And so I do. I mean, people will do you dirty, so you do have to pay attention to all your, all your expectations. But for me, the more I can let go of expectations of others, then the freer I feel. I'm not having to check up on expectations, right? That's if they're— if you expect it, then how are you know? Then you got to know. Whether somebody's fulfilled. Now you're all wrapped up in what somebody else is doing and paying attention to what you're doing, making you the best you that you can be today. And sometimes I'm 110%, sometimes I'm 40%, but every day that's the best I could give that day. And that is true for everyone. So give people grace and let up on all those expectations.

Right?

Maybe that person just having a bad day. Yeah. And you just happen to be the one that caught them, you know. And give them a little bit of grace. We all deserve grace. And I promise you that if they're just an asshole, then karma gonna come get them anyway. You don't have to be the one that does it.

Yeah, you know, time will tell.

You know, it will come and get them.

I like that. I like that. I like the fact that you said I give 110%, and some days I just don't have that 110% to give you. I only got 30, 40% to give you. That's just— that's how it is. Sometimes life hits us, as you can tell. I could tell from your reaction on certain things, like, you know, Mom's birthday. I had a father, he passed away, be 10 years this year.

Never gets easier, huh?

I mean, over time it does. But it's still there, you know what I'm saying? Because you have marker points, you know. Like I was telling you earlier, I'm working on a project, and the project that I'm working on is basically based around my father. So it's bringing, you know what I'm saying, like something to me where I can still cherish his moment and put it into an exciting spotlight and things that nature. So it's creative activity and it's exciting to me, but we have marker points like the day of the— and the day that they passed. So you come through that holidays that you used to, you know, say, spend with your family, your family member that's no longer here. And so we have those days. And so when you come around those days, you know, sometimes I may not be the same that I was yesterday because I'm emotional. As you said earlier, you know, it's an inner— it's an inner thing that's going on that, you know, sometimes you don't really understand it or you really don't feel like explaining it to other people because even if you did, they wouldn't understand how you truly feel. So as you were saying earlier, so I just talk to myself.

No one's watching when I'm doing it, but I do, and I find that helpful. And honestly, it does seem crazy sometimes when I do it, but I can't tell you how much it helped me.

For real. I get it. So Deb, as we get ready to wrap up, what's next for you and Hexagon Media? And are there any new projects on the horizon that we can be looking out for?

There are some new projects on the horizon. I, I'm a sales coach. I do sales mindset coaching because man, sales is all about your mindset and having that on straight. And so I am, I'm storyboarding it right now. So I'm getting ready to video my full sales training program. So it'll be available for download for the end of the year, and that will be fantastic. So it comes with blocks of coaching calls, and I'm excited to have that and to work on that in my home studio also. So that big project is coming. And then just this season of Deals with Heels is a really big deal for me, stepping out of the box and being by myself. And so that's a big deal this season also. But the sales training, that's a, a big step on scaling my coaching platform and taking those steps, it really needs to be video to be able to grow it and not have to have me passionately involved day to day to expand my wealth from this late in the game, right?

Yeah. Good luck with that too, Deb. So Deb, thank you for sharing your journey, your insights with us today, your story of perseverance and creativity. Being an advocate is truly inspiring. Before we wrap up, where can listeners contact with you, learn more about your Hexagon Media, and tune into your podcast Deals with Heels?

You can find all about Hexagon Media and even book me as a guest on hexagonmedia.net. You can download my free ebook there, 5 Steps for Having a Mindset for Success, and it's a short read. So those are the actual 5 steps that I took to change my life when I was completely on rock bottom. And always dealswithheels.com. You can find us on every platform and YouTube, and you can link to it from both my websites.

Thank you again, Deb, for joining us on the CJ Moneyway Show. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If today's episode resonated with you, please leave us a review, subscribe, and share this episode with someone who can benefit from Deborah's wisdom. Until next time, stay motivated, stay learning, and keep carving your path to success. This your boy CJ Moneyway signing off. We out of here.

Thank you for listening to the CJ Moneyway Show. Don't forget to share this share this episode with your friends, leave a comment, and drop a review. Be sure to tune in every Tuesday and Friday for more inspiring journeys.

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