From Command to Connection: The Future of Human-Centered Leadership with [Isabelle Fortin]

Welcome back to the CJ Moneyway Shush, the podcast where we build clarity, culture, and success brick by brick. Today's guests bring military precision, corporate wisdom, and a human-first mindset to the world of leadership. Isabelle is a former Royal Canadian Air Force leader turned business consultant and keynote speaker with over 3 decades of experience in both military and corporate leadership. Now she helps CEOs and HR leaders transform workplace culture, strengthen communication, and unlock team performance using a revolutionary behavioral and motivation assessment tool. This conversation about the evolution of leadership, why great teams are built one person at a time, and how human-centered leadership isn't just good ethics, it's great business. Great business. If you're ready to build engaged, productive, and profitable teams, this one's for you. Let's get into it.

What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show. This your boy CJ Moneyway. So, from command to connections, the future human-centered leadership with Isabel. Leadership has evolved, no longer about command and control or even just knowledge. The future of leadership is human Center. On this episode of the CJ Moneyway Show, we sit down with Isabel Fortin, a former Royal Canadian Air Force leader turned business consultant and keynote speaker. With 3 decades of military and corporate leadership experience, Isabel helps CEOs and HR leaders transform workplace culture, improve communication, and maximize team potential through behavioral and motivational assessment tools. We'll discuss the evolution of leadership, why great teams are built one person at a time, and how human-centered leadership creates more engaged, productive, and profitable organizations. Plus, don't miss our quickfire round where Isabel answers 5 rapid questions with the first thing that comes to mind. So stay tuned to that. Hey, so today we have my girl Isabel Law. Isabelle, welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show.

You're so sweet to have me on. Thank you so much.

Nah, thank you for coming on all the way from Montreal, Canada. We got my girl Izzy on here. Hey, so Isabelle, can you share with us your leadership journey and how it began in the Royal Caribbean— I mean, not Caribbean, Royal Canadian Air Force— and how it shaped your perspective? I'm thinking of going on, you know, I would have taken the Caribbean just for the weather, but yeah, I'm thinking about I'm thinking about going to the Bahamas.

Look at that beautiful place. Have you ever been?

Oh yeah, we've been twice. I've been twice.

It's beautiful.

Yeah, the water and everything.

I love it. I think the last time I went, the water of the ocean was like 84 degrees or something. Mm-hmm. Like that. Yeah.

Yeah, I love the Bahamas. My son love it. My wife love it. So we'll probably be going again in the next couple years. I think the last time we went was 2022, 20— yeah, something like that. But good times, good times. So Izzy, tell us a little bit about your time at the Royal Canadian Air Force.

Well, being in the military was the family business. Both my parents served in the Air Force. That's actually how they met and got married. And when I joined in 1989, my brother was an Air Force pilot. So for me, there was no real questions. You know, you get out of high school, you sign the dotted line, you pledge allegiance to the— well, it was the Queen back then. For us, it's the King now. But, and that's it. And I have to tell you, CJ, I loved it for the first 6, 7 years. I absolutely loved it. The sense of purpose, that sense of duty, the camaraderie, the sense of belonging, all of these things really, really appealed to me. But after a decade, I still loved it. What I didn't love was the day-to-day job that I had. And I really, really looked for another trade that I could just, you know, change trade and stay in the organization. But I didn't find anything that tickled my fancy. So I figured, hey, you know, 95% of Canadians make a living outside the military. So why not me? So I joined corporate America and And I start looking for what I used to call a real job because being in the military, not that it was easy, it really wasn't, but I don't know, it was a different kind of living. And I was shocked on how bad leadership was in corporate America. And long journey to today to trying to help the leaders to tap into the unique abilities of every single individual because that's how you create a great team.

Yeah. And now, you know, I was just talking to somebody and that's the most important thing is building a great team and having somebody like you come in that know more than me, you know what I'm saying, that they can help out. But let me ask you a question. You said something that kind of triggered me a little bit. I didn't know that. You say it was the Queen which I take it that you're talking about Queen Elizabeth. Now it's King Charles. I did not know, you know, you just brought something to my attention. I didn't know that they reign went that far all the way to Capitale-Montréal. So they ruled, you know, saying a whole—

Well, we were kind of still under— we're in the Commonwealth, right? The Canada. So we still have, you know, allegiance to the king. It was Queen Elizabeth II in 1989 when I joined. It is now King Charles III. But honestly, the, the royalty role in Canada's government is truly symbolic now, and that's it. I mean, they don't govern over Canada anymore, but even we just changed prime minister last week and he had to be accepted by King Charles III. So he has a representative here in Canada. That position is called the Lieutenant Governor. And so he— she is— it's a woman. She's the representative of the quindom, of the kingdom, I should say, or I should actually be more precise and say of the Commonwealth. And so when Justin Trudeau resigned, this is who he resigned to. And when the new prime minister was sworn in, it was through her as well. So she's the representative, the representative of the, uh, of the kingdom. But honestly, it's truly in name only. They don't—

they—

I, I have never seen in my 50-some-odd years on this planet, I have never seen either Queen Elizabeth II or King Charles III say, no, no, no, we don't accept, you know, that particular prime minister. That's, that's not exactly how it works.

Yeah.

Okay, I was just wondering, and that lady you talking about, uh, she's a little— she's a tough one, boy. I've been, you know, keeping up with all the stuff that's going on. You know, you better pay attention to what's going on in the world. But yeah, she, she tough. I, I kind of— I like her, you know. She, she stand her ground, you know what I'm saying? She stands her ground. Uh, yeah, because I was listening to her talk, I'm like, hey, she ain't no pushover.

So no, she was— I mean, she was the queen for 60-some-odd years. She passed away 3 or 4 years ago now, but she reigned. She became the queen at, I think, the ripe age of 26.

Oh, you talking about Elizabeth? You talk about Queen? Yeah, I know that. I'm talking about the lady that you say that, you know. Yes, yes, yeah, she's still a tough son of a gun boy. Hey! Because recently, like I say, with things that's going on and, you know, with y'all Prime Minister just resigning and things of that nature, so it's a lot of stuff going on. So I've heard her talk, I'm like, man, she, she ain't no pushover. I know that. Yeah, Queen Elizabeth. Yeah, that was— she reigned for a long time. I don't think nobody ever reigned that long again, you know. You know, I've even watched the documentaries on Netflix about it. It's intriguing, the stuff that you find out, you know what I'm saying, that things that goes on and behind the scenes when— and people sharing their stories. So yeah, so let me ask you, Izzy, the elevation of leadership, you know, the evolving of leadership. Leadership has transformed from fear-based control to knowledge-based authority, and now to human-centered leadership. What does this shift mean for today's leaders?

Oh, it's a big change, and they have to adapt now. So it used to be it went from fear to knowledge, and now it's going from knowledge to heart. So being a leader now, it's no longer command and control, obviously, but in the future, it's truly about how to inspire people and how to tap into their own motivations. So it's a big, big adaptation period, I think, that we're going through right now, because a lot of corporations out there are still under that command and control. I was talking with someone last week and they said that the big, big boss had just said, you know, if you're not happy here, I can put somebody else in your seat anytime I bloody want. And I was kind of shocked. I didn't think that it was still that bad in companies now, but apparently that still exists. So, and that, is going to have to change. In long term, it is going to change. That change has begun. And that's a great, great thing. That's a positive thing. But like every revolution, it's messy sometimes.

Yeah.

Right. So it's like I compare that to spring cleaning. So when you walk into your library or, you know, your den in your house or whatever, and you say, okay, so It's been a decade. I haven't cleaned this room in a decade. It's tidy, but, you know, it needs to be dusted off and stuff like that. And you say, okay, so I'm going to take things out of every bookshelf. I'm going to empty every drawer, every bookshelf and any closets. Well, it gets messier before it gets cleaner. And that's kind of what's happening in leadership right now. So long-term, I think we're heading in the right direction because command and control doesn't work. And that's been proven over and over and over again. And the other thing that we're realizing is, as a human being, unless you use fear or violence, which is not desirable, you cannot motivate anyone to do anything at any time. So what you have to do is find out what they are actually motivated by and tap into that and show, show whoever you're trying to, you know, collaborate with you, show them why is your project good for them. And the good thing is we're all like that. That's part of being human.

Yeah. I mean, I'm just listening to you and I think we need some, you know, some odd people that's in leadership need to hear what you're talking about.

Beautiful, they can call me.

They may need to. They've been calling you Prime. They've been calling you Prime Minister and everybody else. I don't want to get banned from my show, you know what I'm saying? So I ain't gonna get deep into that, but you know what I'm talking about though. And so, um, transitioning from military to corporate leadership, as you mentioned not too long ago, you notice the stark contrast between military leadership and corporate leadership. But what was the biggest challenges and how did you navigate them?

The biggest thing, it was a slow process for me because I was battling things on a private level. I was battling my own demons. So it was a slow process to get to why is leadership of the first so bad? But the first thing was The first civilian boss I ever had, I went, oh my goodness, like, this person has no leadership skills. And then I only stayed in that particular job for 5 months, and then I went to the next job, and, well, this person still doesn't have good leadership skills. And it took me a few jobs like that to realize the pattern. And the biggest thing, CJ, is the lack of leadership training. So in most corporations, it still works like that. And I am dumbfounded by this. I always take the sales department as an example, because that's usually the department that gets the money, right? So they take the best salesperson, the person that hits their number, and, you know, their killer salesperson, and they say, wow, That person is so good in sales. We're going to put them in charge of the sales department. And then what happens? They freaking destroy morale. They have people quitting and it goes haywire. Why? Because selling is a skill and leadership is another one. And companies will spend a lot, a lot I'm going to say this again, a lot of money to train their salespeople because that's what brings the money inside the company. And I understand that. It's logical. But they spend $0 on training leadership. And in the last McKinsey report, it is now a proven fact that leaders, managers, bosses have a bigger impact on people's health than the medical doctors have. Because people are at work. That's where they spend their time. That's where they spend their working hours, right?

Yeah.

At least 40 hours, some lucky 35 and some unlucky 75. But they're at work. So when they're awake, they're at work. So if your boss is horrible, how does that impact your health? And the opposite is also true. If your boss is wonderful, if you see, if you feel like you're seen, heard, and valued, if you know how you contribute to the team and what is that special thing we as humans, let's not pretend we don't all want to feel special. And the good news is we are all special because we all have something to offer the world nobody else can. So if you feel that way, I call the ripple effect, I call that the dinner table effect. Imagine how you show up at your dinner table. Imagine if you know how you contribute to the company, how you contribute to the team, what is the value you provide on a daily basis where you spend the most of your time. Imagine how you show up at home for your spouse, for your children, and imagine the ripple effect it has on their lives and their schools and their work and the community. And that is how you change the world for the better.

I like that concept.

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You know, I was listening to you and not far, you know, like leadership, but something that you were saying was resonating because we were just talking about this at work last night on how sometimes what they would make, like you're in a position and so they have us training each other, you know, they have us training each other. And I've come from, you know, situations where I've been in management and been in training, you know, trainer and things of that nature. And like I told the one girl last night, I say, well, everybody's not meant to train people, you know, because you may be, you know, because you said like the salesperson, they take the salesperson, oh, she's a good salesperson, and make her the leader of the salesperson. Because you may be good at your job don't mean that you may be good as being a leader, you know what I'm saying? Because being a leader, it takes patience. You have to have patience with people. If you're trying to train somebody and show somebody something because they're not doing it right or whatever, you just can't step in and like, oh, get out the way, you know what I'm saying? I do it myself. That's not, you know, saying helping nobody at all. And so I was listening to what you said because we just talked about that last night, and it's not for everyone. And so a lot of these companies, they throw this on its own people to be leaders that's not qualified to be a leader. Don't have— they can't even lead. I ain't gonna even go there. They can't even lead theyself. How you gonna lead somebody else? That's all. You know what I'm talking about?

You're absolutely right. Absolute 100,000%. And furthermore, I'll even add on to that, CJ, is not everybody is meant to lead. Not everybody wants to. And some of them take the job only and solely for the money. And I mean, I don't blame people for wanting to improve the financial aspect of their lives. Come on. You know, I tried once to pay my mortgage with a, you know, a can-do attitude and a smile, and the suckers wanted money. So, and that's the way that the world works. So I understand. Recently I had a friend come up to me. It's got nothing to do with my business. He's just a friend and he's a sales rep. And let me tell you, he makes a lot of money, a lot of money. He says, Isabelle, I need your advice. I said, okay. He said, they've offered me the sales manager position. I said, okay. He says, what should I do? I said, well, okay, first of all, who the hell am I to tell you what to do? And second of all, let me ask you a few questions. And he went, okay. I said, do you even want to? No. I said, is it actually more money? He said, Well, I get a piece of the pie on everybody's sale, but I'm the best sales rep by far. And I know that without my numbers, that smaller piece of the pie is going to be less than what I'm making now. I said, okay, did you answer your own question?

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Not everybody wants to and not everybody should. And thank God for that.

Yeah, and to add on to your point before we leave, like where I work at, and they got people training, like I've, you know, I've trained a couple people at my job, and even sometimes I've just learned the job myself and they got me training. We don't get incentives on training. They just throw a person with you. And so that really ain't, you know, saying the morale, like, like you say, if I don't want to be a trainer, I don't want to train nobody, whatever, whatever. And you're not giving me any type of incentive to want to do it, you know. Like, I'm getting paid the same amount of money that they getting paid, you know what I'm saying, to do the same thing. So there's no motivation to really do it. And again, like we say, everybody's not cut out for that, just like everybody's not cut out to be a pastor, but everybody want to, you know, want to be one sometimes. But, you know, hey, that's another story.

They don't necessarily want to be a pastor, but they want to preach.

Exactly. Or they want to have a church so they can pass that collection plate around, you know. And that, it's not the same. It's It's two different things. It's two different things. So let me ask you, Isabel, the downside of traditional corporate culture, you've spoken about that every person for themselves mentality in business. How does this mindset hurt companies and what should they do instead?

Well, the biggest and the most expensive thing is employee turnover, and they don't realize how much it's costing them. Again, in the last McKenzie report, they came up that losing an employee or replacing employees, 1.5 to 2 times their annual salary. So if you don't take care of your employees and they leave, they just cost you a whole bunch of money. But because it doesn't show like right here and now in your budget, they sometimes overlook that spending. How much time did it take you to train them? How much, how much money did it cost you to hire that person? I recently worked with a group, an accountant firm here in Montreal, and they had spent $32,000 for a placement agency to find them an accountant. And within 5 weeks, they fired her. That's $32,000 plus her fa— her salary. So there's two sayings, and it goes hand in hand, and people don't look at them together. The first one is, we hire for skills, but we fire for attitude. And the second is, we don't leave a job, we leave a boss. So what do these two quotes have in common? It's about people. Yeah, it's about people. And I love the saying, the quote from Simon Sinek: if you don't understand people, you don't understand business. Because 100% of your employees are people, 100% of your clients are people, 100% of your investors are people, 100% of your collaborator— collaborators of your suppliers, of the C-suites, everything is about people. And if you don't get that, good luck to you. Oh, you might succeed. I mean, we have proof. I'm not gonna go political on you. But proof that narcissism works.

Yeah, I'm with you. Hey, we here, we here, you know what I'm saying? Maybe on the other side of the border, but we here. I know exactly what you said.

Yes.

So they say, yeah, we're just gonna leave that at that because we don't want to get in no trouble.

I'm just saying that examples out there that narcissists sometimes get in very, very high places.

Yeah, and make a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of money. A lot of money. They, they make a lot of money and then they take a lot of money. So, and that's another story in itself. Catch me on Planting Seeds with CJ for that, because I will dive into something like that because my mouth get a little flip and that's what I do. And so, um, the role— let me ask you, uh, Isabel, the role of behavioral and motivation assessments. You use an innovative assessment tool to help leaders understand and adapt to their teams. How does this tool work and why is it so effective?

It's, it's like magic. It's like having a magic 8-ball. It's, it's truly magical. So it's a psychometric assessment. And listen, CJ, I don't pretend that the one that I use is better than others. It's just that's the one that I prefer. And I've tried a lot of them out there, you know, the DiSC and the— what's the name— Myers-Briggs or something like that. Like I've I've tried a lot of them. I prefer this one for one simple reason, is not only will it give you your behavioral and cognitive preferences, your motivational preferences, but it will also give you how you are naturally and how you have adapted to your current situation, either work or, or at the office, because we don't switch personality overnight, right? We, when we wake up in the morning, we're still the same person.

Exactly.

Perhaps when we show up at the office, we're willing to show less of who we are. That's possible. And that's okay. I understand that self-preservation. But you're— who you are does not change. You're still that person. But on top of all of that, it will go into the deep core values and motivation of the person. Like I said earlier, Nobody on this planet, other than by fear or by violence, nobody can motivate anybody to do anything at any time. But when you actually know what motivates the other person, you can tap into that. So that's the reason I use this particular tool. And it's incredible the results that we get from that assessment, because in 90 minutes, I can literally tell you how that person's brain is wired. How do they think? How have they adapted? Do they need to be more structured? How, how do they respond to challenges? Do they need you to just, you know, let them be and let them do their own work? What are they naturally good at so that you can go tap into that and put it in the profit of your organization? But on top of it, it's good for them because we're back to the dinner table effect, right? But listen, I can talk about psychometric assessment until I am blue in the face, but I'm going to tell you one big truth most people won't tell you. Regardless of which one you use and which one you like and why you like that particular one, psychometric tests or personality tests, if you prefer, are like treadmills. You get what you put in. So if you take the assessment and you have all of your team take that assessment and then you take the 25 to 40 pages report per person, you put it in a drawer and you never look at it again, you've wasted your time, you've wasted my time, and you've wasted your money. And thank you for that. That, yeah, if you're willing to actually adapt how you lead your people so that you can get the most out of them, and it is beneficial for you because you were in business to make money, there's no reason to pretend that is— that's not the case, then your numbers are going to skyrocket because it improves retention and improves productivity. It improves efficiency and therefore improves your bottom line. And who doesn't want that? But again, you buy a treadmill, you put in the basement, and you look at it and you watch the dust on it, then that's what you get out of it.

Nothing.

But if you put in your living room and every time you're in front of the TV, you're walking, well, obviously you're getting in shape. So it's all up to are you willing to do something about it?

I like that.

Like the rest of life.

Yeah. The two things that resonated with me when you said that, nothing from nothing leaves nothing. And bottom line is You want to increase your bottom line. So hey, let's not play with ourselves here. It's all about the money, bottom line. So I only got one more question for you, Izzy, and then I go to my quick fire round, and then I can let you get back to assessing people so that they can get the bottom line. Wonderful. So the Future of Leadership and your mission— what excites you most about the Future of Leadership and what's next for you and the Human Leader livestream?

Oh, that's a great question. I am truly passionate by people. People fascinate me. Whenever I meet somebody— that doesn't mean I like everybody. That's not what I'm saying. But even when I don't like them, I go, oh my God, I'd like to see how their brain is wired and why do they think that way? And You know what? I read a book. It was Oprah and Dr. I can't remember his name. And please forgive me for not remembering his name, but it's Dr. Phil. No, no, no, no. We tend to look at people and go, holy smokes, what's wrong with you? When in reality, what we should be asking is, what happened to you? And that's the name of the book is What Happened to You. He's a psychologist, and he explains, and he deals with trauma. It's not Dr. Phil, but I'm truly sorry, I don't remember his name. But the name of the book is— maybe you're looking it up, I don't know. But now, is it What Happened to You? But I'm always, always, always very intrigued by people knowing, like, what's your backstory? Like, what what happened that made you this way? And the future for me is hopefully continuing to do what I'm doing at a larger scale. I like the public speaking. I like impacting more people at once. I'm extremely comfortable on stage, the bigger, the better. And so in the years to come, that's where my focus is going to go.

Yeah, yeah, Dr. Bruce Perry.

Thank you.

That's who it is, Dr. Bruce Perry. I had to go look it up because you asked me to.

Thank you.

Thank you. Bottom line. And so, uh, bottom line, people, bottom line. Hey, hey, that's the core word for the day, bottom line. Hey, so quick fire round, real quick. Okay, 5 questions. Uh, Izzy, don't get nervous. A lot of my guests, they get nervous. Simple question. So I'm gonna ask you 5 questions. Just come with the first thing that come to your mind.

Okay.

Okay.

Go.

All right. One leadership book every CEO should read.

Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek.

I like that. Leaders Eat Last. Best piece of leadership advice you've ever received.

Oh, oh my God. Shut up. Let the people speak. It's not about you. It's about them. Let them speak.

Eat last.

I was young, but yes, yeah, that's the one that still serves me to this day.

I like that one because see that cover of that book, Eat Last. Shut up, eat last. What's the number one trait of a great leader?

Oh, there's three: empathy, humility, and adaptability.

Gotta learn how to adapt, and you gotta know how to be compassionate as well. I like that. Biggest misconception about leadership?

Command and control works. It doesn't. It's a load of crap.

I like Izzy. She's straight to the point. What one word to describe the future of leadership?

Empathy.

Have compassion for people, man. Something that we missing nowadays, and I'm glad you brought that up. What a powerful conversation with Izzy. Hey, leadership is evolving, and as we learned today The future belongs to those who put humans first. Empathy, as she just said. Building great teams one person at a time. If you're a leader looking to improve communication, culture, and retention, connect with Izzy Fortune.

Bottom line, that's the keyword of the day, honey. Bottom line. Increase your bottom line.

Hey, y'all heard it from Izzy from Canada. Hey, my girl was in the Air Force, so I wouldn't play with her either, because she probably good with them weapons. Nah, I'm not a violent person. So, and learn more about how to get to your bottom line and this behavior assessment tool. And as always, if you love this episode, subscribe, rate, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Your feedback helps us keep bringing you inspiring conversations. And another thing, big things are coming. Stay tuned for GI, the state's capital, and catch more thought leadership discussion on Planting Seeds with CJ. Follow me at CJ Moneyway on all platforms for updates. Until next time, keep leading, keep evolving, and keep making an impact. And get to the bottom line. That's the keyword for the day. Hey, this your boy CJ Moneyway and my girl Izzy. Hey, we out of here.

Peace.

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