Hands of Gold: Roni Robbins on Legacy, Resilience & Immigrant Grit

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What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show in association with Believe Network, where we bring you powerful stories from thought leaders, creatives, and changemakers. I'm your host, CJ Moneyway, and today's episode is about family history, resilience, and turning life's trials into art. Our guest today is Ronnie Robbins, an award-winning journalist speaker and author of the novel Hands of Gold: One Man's Quest to Find the Silver Lining in Misfortune. This incredible book, which spans 4 countries, 9 decades, and 5 generations, is based on the real-life story of Ronnie's grandfather, who survived unimaginable hardships to build a life in America. The novel has won numerous accolades, including the 2023 International Book Awards and the 2023 Global Book Awards gold medal. Ronnie, welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show. We're thrilled to have you today.

Thank you. I'm doing great. I'm happy to be here.

I'm glad you take time out today to come on and join the show today. So Ronnie, your novel Hands of Gold is based on your grandfather's life story. What inspired you to turn his story into a book, and how did you decide to fictionalize parts of it?

So he left cassette tapes. You may be too young to remember cassette tapes, but pop culture technology there, the original stuff. He left cassette tapes of his life and his adventures in Europe and in America. And I decided to change all the names that he talked about, all his adventures, all the family members. I changed all the names, made up dialogue. Why his story resonated with me, and I was hoping it would resonate with others, was it was a 65-year love story. And he had— he was told he was terminal with tuberculosis, which is the largest infectious disease killer in the world still. He was told he was terminal at 26, but he lived till 86, obviously, because I'm here. And so he was a clinical trial patient for streptomycin, which was an experimental drug at that time. Saved his life, countless other lives. It's used today and it paved the way for the medicines that are used today. That was one thing. My grandparents died on the exact date of each other, a year apart. It's coming up in a few days, 3 more days, January 31st. One went and then the other went. I saw that as an amazing love story. And the fact that they had to go through sickness together with my grandfather in and out of rehabilitation. He was involved in a workplace shooting spree, he spoke with the gunman. In my novel, I take it a little bit further and he saves people. They lost most of their family in the Holocaust. You know, what we're hearing about all over the world is that hatred exists today. Anti-Semitism is on the rise, probably has been rising for a while. What happened in Israel, October 7th, 2023, is reminiscent of the Holocaust. On a smaller scale, but still hatred exists in the world today. History repeating itself with wars in Russia and wars elsewhere and genocide occurring still. So there's still ethnic cleansing per se, and the history is repeating itself. So I saw an opportunity to take his words and use it as an example of life, the life of a person, what we can go through and what we're capable of. And, you know, all he wanted was a life of freedom for his family, which he achieved, of religious freedom and the opportunity to work hard in a country and be recognized for that. So all of that factored into why I thought I could write a novel. Plus, I'm a journalist for some 37 years, so I knew I had the ability to write well enough to be published. It was harder than I thought to get that done as an author, but I did have that background as a storyteller, as a known storyteller, and that people enjoyed my writing. So I just took it to a different level.

Yeah, I know the creative part of it, you know, like you say, the fictional characters, you have to change Grandpa's name, Grandma's name, cousins, uncles, things of that nature. I understand. I understand exactly what you said. Actually, I'm working on something, not like what you're doing, but something fictional myself where I change some things about a family situation. What I found interesting, one thing that you said was how they both died on the same, passed away on the same day a year apart. I have a friend of mine, Carol Sims, and I remember her telling me a story about her mother and father passing away on the same day, but it was years apart though. And so it was like, Wow. You know, like, I don't know if you thinking about that person that day or whatever, you know, as you said, a love story, just that connection. And matter of fact, I think one of her brothers' and sister's birthday was on the same day as her parents'. So, you know, that's something that someone would never forget. So, Rani, you said that you was a journalist for many years. You worked as a journalist for decades. How did your background in journalism influence your approach to writing this novel? And how did you handle the transition from nonfiction to fiction?

Yes, I'm still a journalist, I should say. I was and I am. I write for two different publications now as a freelancer. I had worked for one of those publications up until about a year ago, so I continue to freelance. I used all my skills as a storyteller, as a researcher, investigation. I was familiar with how to research. Now, this was before most everything is online now, but I went physically to the, the National Archives and looked up census information. I looked up— this was before ancestry.com and all of the convenience tools that we have now. I went to the Mormon Church has a family history center. The Church of Latter-day Saints, they keep a lot of records of history and family backgrounds and paperwork documents. So I was able to dig into those physical papers. They had their own versions of, you know, what we would say online. They had the computer systems, they had the information. There was some microfilm and microfiche, to quote more pop culture technology, primitive technology. This was a while back when I was doing all the research. So, you know, organization skills. What this book really is, is a compilation of smaller stories, smaller might-have-been articles on individual times in somebody's life. And stringing them all together to make a novel. So each chapter has its own series of adventures and could stand alone, I suppose. But at first I wrote a column about leaving your legacy behind as something for your progeny, as a living legacy, giving memories a voice, leaving a legacy behind in this way of cassette tapes. Now it doesn't have to be cassette tapes. It'll be video now or other type of recording, audio or video. But I thought it was important to have that, to leave that behind for your future descendants, especially people who lived through these periods of war and the Holocaust. And, you know, my grandfather, my grandparents went through the Great Depression. The golden age of television and radio. Everything was emerging for them at that point. Of course, we had the internet and social media, but that's what they had then. They had TV and radio, and that was all emerging at that time. So that's all in the novel. I take you through the life of a person through many decades of a life. And so those were the skills that I had that I already was accustomed to using. I mean, I'm a writer. It comes more naturally to me than others. I like how words string together. And so some of it is poetry and creativity and all of that worked into this novel.

Mm, yeah. You have to be creative. I understand that part of it, writing a couple books myself. So yeah, you have to be creative and focused, organized. And I may not have the research capability as you have, Corwin Johnson. I know that plays a big part, an important part in what you do. So, Ronnie, your grandfather's story is extraordinary, spanning multiple countries and significant historical events. What were some of the most remarkable or surprising things you learned about doing your research?

So I didn't understand a lot about the Holocaust. They didn't talk about that much. They would go into Yiddish if they wanted us to, their native language, if they wanted us to not understand what they were talking about, although we might have picked up picking up a few words like Kinder, which we knew was children, and then we knew that they were talking about us or talking around us. So I learned that most of my family died in Auschwitz. Today, in fact, is the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, and it's International Holocaust Remembrance Day. So I did learn through these tapes and through my research that the majority of my grandfather's family. You know, he had a family of 11, and most of them died, including his parents, in the Holocaust. And he had— what's that like to hear about your family, having left them behind and wondering, could you have done more to bring them out of there? Why didn't they listen? Why wouldn't they come to America? They came— if they came here, they would have thought it wasn't Jewish enough. And also At that time, they were going through the Great Depression, so why would they want to come here? Their businesses were flourishing where they were, but they had no idea what was going to happen. And nobody really understood all that was happening until we heard about it here. And my grandfather couldn't do anything. He felt it would— and it was too late. So he— "Were there but for the grace of God go I." So that was the most eye-opening I think I knew that my grandmother— when I was growing up, I always thought my grandmother was the one with the health problems. Now, I had heard that my grandfather had the health problems, but I didn't know him like that. He seemed the strong one. So the tables were turned and then I got to learn more.

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About him, I had no idea. That he was involved in this experimental treatment of tuberculosis, for tuberculosis, that would have paved the way for medicines today and also would have been so important for his generation. And he played a major role in history. Who would have known? So—

Yeah, that's great. Hey, so Ronnie, turning your family's history into a novel is no small feat in itself. How long did it take you to write Hands of Gold, and how did you know it was ready to submit to agents when you were ready to submit it to agents and publishers?

So it took me more than 20 years from start to finish, and I'll tell you why. I was also raising my children at that time. I stayed home to raise my children and write this book. So I was doing everything very slow and also trying to carve out time for both my children and, you know, what was important to me at the time with their early education and reading and playtime, you know, getting outdoors. So I spent time doing that. But then when they took a nap or were at school, I worked on the book. But I was also freelancing. So I worked for some major publications at that time. My pieces were picked up by Forbes and Huffington Post. And I did— I was a correspondent for the New York Daily News during that time. And Mother Nature Network, WebMD, and a few others. And that all helped me to get back into my career when my children were grown and I was ready to go back to work full-time for a bit. So I would say, you know, it took me so long because of that. Now, how did I know it was ready? So I had a lot of cold feet about it. They say imposter syndrome. Yes, I was a journalist. Yes, I was a published writer, even for those bigger publications. So, but it didn't mean that I was going to be an author. I didn't think I was an author. I didn't really realize you are an author once you write the book. I figured it took a lot more than that, maybe some awards. So I would say that it was ready to be released to agents and publishers after I won a contest. So I entered the Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award contest, which doesn't exist anymore, in 2007, and then it took me 2 more years to— before I won the award in 2009, as I recall. So I might have started the book when my daughter was born in 2000, so it took me 7 years And then 2 more years of perfecting before I could win anything. And once I won, I was a quarterfinalist for historical fiction. And once I got to that level, I realized that it was good enough. I felt like it was good enough to have won an award. And since then I've won 5 more. So since it has been published, I've won 5 more. So I was afraid. And then it took me a while to figure out that I didn't need to go to an agent. I could go to a publisher directly and I was told no so many times that I, when I finally got a yes, I had to do a double take and I was already sort of reading negative and was pretty shocked that somebody wanted to take on my book. I lost my first publisher over a legal concern after working with her for 2 years and then I gained another one 6 months later. So I've been through a lot with this book. I am still marketing it and still waiting for it to take off, but it has proven some levels of success along the way. It's in the US Holocaust Museum gift shop. It's been written about in Jerusalem Post, in the Washington Jewish Week, and others. I was in a major book festival with the likes of Nikki Haley and John Meacham and Andrew Young, Benjamin Netanyahu, Bernie Marcus, Melissa Rivers, Jodi Picoult, some big name authors. So I had some level of achievement with the book.

Yeah. Congratulations on the many awards that you have won and sticking with it. As I said, I was talking to a guy the other day from a publishing company. And he said the guys that wrote Chicken Noodle Soup or something like that, he said they got rejected 165 times before somebody picked up their book and it went on to sell millions and millions of copies. And so it's just the, as you talked about, the resilience of this thing. So let me ask you, Ronnie, as we're talking about resilience, Your novel touches on important themes like resilience, family, and the hatred that you was talking about earlier. How do these things connect to the world today, especially with current events involving conflicts in places like Russia, Ukraine, and Israel?

Yeah, I never expected that history would repeat itself. When I wrote this, I was writing about my based on my grandfather's experiences. I could never have imagined that we'd have COVID, which is similar to— or, you know, and like I said, TB is still the largest infectious disease killer in the world. Even though COVID got our attention for a while, TB was still bubbling under the surface and it was still the largest infectious disease killer even at that time. And since now that we've gotten a handle on COVID somewhat, I couldn't have imagined that when I wrote Russia seems to like to fight, that Russia is back fighting. Who could have ever imagined that there would be people who would take others hostage and it would start a war? And in Israel that would be compared to the Holocaust because it was just based on hatred. Some may argue about whether it was based on other things, but from my vantage point, it was hatred and one party didn't start the fight. So, you know, there were innocent people. I won't— I'm not going to go there about the innocent people. War is rough on both sides. But I would say that somebody start— pick the fight. Somebody has to start the fight. And when it comes down to it, that's how it all begins. And then there's just going after the other side. So I could never have imagined that that would happen to my people. To Jews again after the Holocaust. We thought it was over, but it's not. That antisemitism always has existed and it's had its peaks. And right now I feel like we have a peak. I didn't know that that would happen again. You know, people say, oh, I thought TB was gone. Well, it's not. You know, maybe they say, oh, we've made so much progress. But maybe we haven't in just hatred overall. You know, immigrants, persecution of immigrants, we have that now. The other, the other person, whatever the other might be. So there's fear in the world. For certain segments of the population. And I understand that fear. I didn't know that that would all be an outcome, you know, when my book came out. So I just wrote what was going on, and it just so happens that all of this is still in the news.

We call that a spirit of discernment at times with things. You don't see it at the time, but it comes. You see things in a different light in the spirit, and not knowing that this is going to happen, but that's what happened. You know what I'm saying? And like you saying, it's a wow moment.

Wow.

I didn't know that that actually was gonna take place, you know. And I know exactly what you mean. September 11th is one of the days for me.

Yeah.

So, uh, so, so Ronnie, you've been talking about, uh, hate groups and, and the value of preserving, uh, family history. What has been the— what has the reaction been like, and what message do you hope to convey from these talks?

The reaction has been positive and people have found different parts of my story that has resonated with their own and reminds them of their own ethnic family. They don't have to be a Jewish family, just maybe immigrant families. Most of us came from immigrants of some sort, from somewhere. So I have found that the reaction has been very positive. I only had one family member concerned about the book. So far I haven't gotten sued, so that's good. And, you know, my, my, I've had cousins come out of the woodwork, you know, hi, I'm your cousin, you wrote about my uncle, or what have you. So I'm, I feel like that that's a really good thing that has brought the family together, which would have my grandparents would have loved that part of it. Now, I'm not sure if they would have loved everything that I wrote because there is some questionable dirty laundry and also there's sex in the book. So, you know, that might not sit well with them because they were private about that. But yeah, so, but I feel like that overall it's been, it was a good challenge for me and the small signs of success makes me think that it was worth it. And I got 50 rejections 'cause I counted them one time. I would've thought there was more. I had two big folders because I kept all the correspondence. So one day I checked and counted and there was like 40, almost 50. Still, 50 is a lot. 50 is a lot of— I could get discouraged at any point and want to self-publish, but I didn't. What can people learn? They can learn we have the ability to endure so much in our lives, and we shouldn't complain about our small inconveniences when others who went before us worked so hard for the freedoms that we enjoy in America and many places around the world that democratic countries have it good in comparison. And we really— if you don't have major health problems, you should thank your lucky stars. So you don't realize how blessed you are to have a family that still talks to each other to enjoy the rewards of living in America that those who went before us paved the way for. And just if this man could endure what he endured, we can endure so much. We've been through a lot. We will have a lot yet to go through in our lives. We really need to step back and appreciate the blessings and realize we have the capacity to really persist. Persistence is really key to not let things, obstacles get in your way of fulfilling whatever dreams it is that you have, whatever dreams you have.

Whatever dreams you have, aim for them. And you're right, we are blessed to be here. And if your grandfather went through— I understand what you're saying. The things that your grandfather and people before us went through to pave the way for us, we don't have it nearly as hard as they do. But like what you're doing right now, pay it forward with your book and things of that nature. And so we owe it to pay it forward to the next generation so that they can have something to look forward to as your grandfather left for you guys. So just have a few more questions for you, Ronnie, and I'll let you go.

Yeah.

You've written for major publications, as you mentioned before, like the Huffington Post, Forbes, and WebMD, and interviewed many celebrities like Wolf Blitzer from CNN, Hank Aaron, and Usher. What has been one of the most memorable moments of your career as a journalist?

Oh, wow. Well, I almost died once. I took risks with my journalism along the way. I used to get to crime scenes before the police. That was probably pretty scary, as I recall. I was on a balloon, a hot air balloon that almost crashed and had to avoid crashing. I think it did land in the Biltmore Estate. A promotion for the Asheville Citizen Times. I was a freelance— no, I was an intern and I was writing about Belshire in Asheville, North Carolina, where my family lives, which just went through the flooding, by the way. And my family's fine, but we almost crashed. That wasn't supposed to happen in my reporting. So sometimes you become the news instead of the news gatherer, the newsmaker instead of the news gatherer. So that all worked into my life. My story, I guess it made it more exciting, but I didn't— Drama may have followed me there to make it much more exciting than it was supposed to be. And so the memorable moments are— I got to sort of talk to Usher before he talked to the rest of the media. I just happened upon him and Bobby Brown too. But I didn't get to talk to him. He didn't stop to talk. But I did— there were some times when it's just luck of the moment. But with Usher, it was a custody battle that he was fighting for custody of his son. The child had fallen into the pool, so that complicated things. And he was just had— he was going to go down and talk to the media. But at that moment, I said, Usher, What do you think about what happened here today? And he goes, I just want what's right for my babies. Yeah, I think that's pretty much his quote. So that was pretty exciting because I should have been with everyone else and I was delayed, but sometimes things happen for a reason. Yeah, I'm sure there's others. I almost crashed on a Coast Guard cutter patrolling the waters for the post-Challenger in Florida today. And I was on a Coast Guard cutter. And, well, I would just say it was rocky water that I wasn't expecting. I've been up to my knees in water, you know, writing about a beached whale in Florida. I was in Andy Gibbs' trailer before a windsailing competition. So, you know, maybe the celebrity moments are also pretty exciting too.

Wow. The life of a journalist.

Yes. Yes. A lot of risk. Sometimes scary.

Yeah.

I never wanted to be a war correspondent, but maybe to get the story, you gotta be willing to roll up your pants and get in there and get the story. I don't think the whale had anything to say, but for some reason I was in the water to get close enough to sort of see what was going on. Yeah. Yeah.

You brought up something very interesting just a second ago. You say you never wanted to be one that goes and be a journalist in the war zones and things of that nature. People talk all the time about the news, the news outlet, and we talk about fake news and this and that, where you getting your information from. And one thing that I said, and I give you guys courage, you all courage, for what you do. Like you say, you going on boats and, and, uh, hot air balloons. I wouldn't do that, but one thing that I say to people and that I admire about what you guys do is if you're willing to go into a war zone, let's just say like in Ukraine right now, and report what's going on there with the things that's happening, and then, you know, you giving it back to Americans, what we're seeing on CNN or NBC and things of that nature. How can I not listen to what you said? And you're right there, opposed to somebody that's not there, and you're talking about your theories, you know what I'm saying? Like, these people are actually there where it's all happening, that risking their lives at that, you know. As far as, you know, things that's going on, you know more than me, but I appreciate what you guys do because I don't know, I, I don't think that I can do it. I'm definitely not getting no hot air balloon That's—

Yeah, yeah.

So, so, right, I just got one more question for you. For aspiring journalists and authors, what's the one piece of advice that you would give to help them build a successful writing career?

First, write, right? You gotta write to be a writer, right? You just Gotta put it out there and not give up. Make really great connections. Keep making those connections. I'd say social media, but I'm not sure that— I think it's more networking. Whatever it takes to get those networks going, to be connected out there is important. But don't give up. I mean, if you're good, if you're good at it, And it's not just you thinking you're good at being a writer. It's other people telling you you're good, I think. I don't think I would ever be where I'm at if it wasn't for a high school English teacher, a journalism teacher, saying, you know, giving me the thumbs up in— no, it was a yearbook class. And I became the copy editor of the yearbook because they liked what I submitted. And the whole class was listening to it. So there was no hiding behind, you know, a submission just to the teacher. I was reading it out loud and everyone made the, you know, agreed that it was worthy of being the opening copy of the yearbook. And then I also became the copy editor. So you need people along the way to say, you know what, you're sort of good at this. You need to have publications that are willing to publish your writing and people who can enjoy it. There's no— you can't be an author if— well, you can be an author if you write a book, but it does no good if nobody reads it and really enjoys it and walks away being enriched by it and inspired. So never give up on your dreams is a general statement about most things, but it works for journalism too. Be published as much as you can if you're going to be a journalist. If you're a writer, get it out there too. I don't— yeah.

Yeah. So don't give up on your dreams. That's the theme. Don't give up on your dreams, whatever they may be. Ronnie, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. Your story and your book offer so much wisdom and inspiration, and I'm sure our listeners will want to learn more about your work. So before we go, where can people find your book, Hands of Gold, and where can they connect with you?

So hopefully they can see it on the sign behind me, but www.ronirobbins.com. You got to spell my name right. It's tricky. R-O-N-I-R-O-B-B-I-N-S. You can Google me. You'll find out everything you wanted to know about my journalism and my book. It's online in the website. You can see where my next speaking engagement is where our— and little grammar corrections here as I speak. And background to the book, where you can buy the book: anywhere books are sold. You can't really see it on my sign because I'm blocking it, but Amazon, Barnes Noble, Books-A-Million, Target, Walmart, Goodreads, everywhere books are sold, you'll find Hands of Gold. And it's been in the top— well, right now it's in the top 150 or so on Amazon's bestseller list for Holocaust biographies and biographical literary fiction. It's ranked as low as in the teens at one point, but like 20, 25 earlier this month, it was in that realm. So, you know, it— That's a sign of achievement too. I'm on social media as either Ronnie Robbins, Ronnie Cain Robbins, Hands of Gold, Facebook, X, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, but I don't know what's going on with TikTok. And I don't really know what's going on with X as much either. It was Twitter. So I'm on all of those platforms. But also you can reach out to me through my website or ronnie.robbins@yahoo.com. Yep, all those places.

Oh, we thank you for that, Ronnie. Hey, so go pick up your book when you go to Walmart to go get you some Kool-Aid or a case of water. Hands of Gold. Or when you sitting there looking at something on Amazon, strolling through, put that book in your cart. Hey, so again, Ronnie, we thank you for coming on the show today. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review, subscribe, and share it with someone who might benefit for Ronnie's incredible story. Make sure to visit Ronnie, R-N-I-R-O-B-B-I-N-S.com, or find Hands of Gold on Amazon and other online retailers. Until next time, stay curious, stay resilient, and keep telling your story. This is CJ Moneyway signing off. We outta here. Peace.

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