The Queen of Cybersecurity Reveals Truth About Internet Dangers | Caitlin Sarian

My way of getting into cybersecurity was very odd. I honestly didn't even know what cyber security was before I started college, so I did university. I'm older than people think, which I feel blessed. Most people in cyber security don't have social media because they're so scared of their online presence. I always knew that I had a bigger purpose in life, and I was like, I want to help as many people as possible. I didn't know what that looked like. I've always said that even since I was a little kid. And so when social media came around and TikTok was a thing, once TikTok announced that they were moving stuff over to the U.S. i was like, okay, I feel comfortable. I read their privacy policy. I was like, but I'm only starting a TikTok if it's a force for good. I had three pillars in mind for the reasons why I started. One was to get more women and diversity into STEM careers. Two was to inspire more people to get into cybersecurity as a whole, like, demystify what the heck cybersecurity is and how to, like, have a career in it. And the third was just to educate the public on cybersecurity tips. Because I would always get asked all these crazy questions and I was like, okay, maybe I should just start a channel about it.

Foreign hello, my wonderful listeners, and welcome to this week's Catamania episode. I feel like I'm about to get a little bit philosophical unnecessarily, but we live in a world where obviously all of us are on our phones, we're constantly using our technology. I don't know at this point what you need to be doing or what you could be doing in your life to not be involved in any way, shape or form with technology. So cybersecurity has been an interest of mine in the last couple of years. I've only really dived into it on a very basic level. Certain things. Like, obviously I'm pretty public in my social media life, you know, not posting in real time and all of those safety tips that I have shared with you guys before. But I want to chat with somebody who really understands that area. So I found my guest today, Ms. Caitlin Sarian, who is a cybersecurity expert. And I think you're gonna get a lot of value out of this episode. So enjoy, stay blessed. And as always, if you like this episode and my podcast, remember to give it a, like, thumbs up, whatever the heart like button is on the platform that you're listening to. This on. And without further ado, welcome, Caitlin.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.

I'm so excited to chat with you. We've had quite a few conversations already about many interesting things.

So many.

But tell me a little bit about yourself and how you got to specifically cybersecurity and what you're doing today.

Yeah. So my way of getting into cybersecurity was very odd. I honestly didn't even know what cybersecurity was when I. Before I started college. So I did university. I'm older than people think, which I feel. I feel blessed. But I. When I went to university, I did engineering, and I also didn't understand what engineering was. This is back, like, in the 2000s, so a while ago. And I used to think engineering was like, a car mechanic or anything like that. And I didn't engineering randomly. And I did a lot of engineering internships, but every internship I did, I was like, I don't know if I can see myself here for more than three to five years. And I was really looking for, at that point, like, a job that I could be for the rest of my life, because that's what I saw my parents doing. And so I was applying to technology consulting roles, and when I was applying to different companies, one of the interviews, a lady asked me if I'd be interested in cybersecurity. And I had no idea what that meant. But in my head, I was like this. I was thinking about a guy in hoodie, like, hacking the government, and I was like, sounds interesting. But I also did coding in school. I had to do a couple semesters of coding, and I was terrible at it. But I didn't want to tell this lady because obviously I want to get every job and then decide after. And so I kept going through the interviews, and I ended up getting the job. And I was like, okay, I'm actually really interested. Like, let's see where this goes. And if I don't like cybersecurity, then I can go into different parts of tech consulting. So I literally got in randomly through an interview, started learning everything on the job, which is one of the reasons why I started my platform, because everyone always has so many questions about how to get in. And I want to inspire and encourage everyone to get into cybersecurity. The other thing is that you don't need to know how to code, which was the other reason why I'm like, everyone thinks I'm some freaky genius. And really, I learned everything on the job, and I just love Learning. So I did cybersecurity for six years with Eye in consulting and I was able to move to London and start cybersecurity practices and then I kept going. In the last four years, it's been crazy madness. I've changed companies three times. Most recently, I led TikTok Cybersecurity Global Advocacy and culture team. So it was like a pretty large team for TikTok. My main job was to educate the public and employees about cybersecurity best practices and also understand and help TikTok in the news around cybersecurity. So as you can tell, my job was very interesting and I learned a lot. But I really started getting into influencing, which, I don't know. Are you weird about saying it? You're an influencer. It makes me so uncomfortable.

Yeah.

What do you, what do you say?

Oh man, I. And I don't know why it makes me so uncomfortable because there's so much opportunity and success. Like it's a legitimate business.

Yeah. Like kids want to be an influencer.

Influencers. Exactly. But I think probably we have very like old fashioned view of it. Right. Because I remember the first time I told my mom I'm quitting my corporate audit career and basically gonna be doing influencing full time. My mom was like, what? What is that? So I usually say I'm a blogger and I do social media marketing, which I don't actually do that much social media marketing per se. And then I'm like, actually I'm an influencer. Like I go into this actually. Yes, I'm going to be more comfortable saying I'm an influencer, but I totally get weirded out about that too. Yeah. Because I think the reputation maybe and the stigma around it is still there. So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. And I became a cybersecurity influencer. I started it about almost three years ago now.

Mind you, that sounds a lot more serious than like, you know, I'm a beauty influencer. Not to. Again, not to undermine beauty influencers. They're doing a great. You're all doing a great job. I'm one of you. I'm like a lifestyle and comedy influencers, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, cybersecurity influencer sounds serious.

It's also like ironic because most people in cybersecurity don't have social media because they're so scared of their online presence. And so I became a cybersecurity influencer because I climbed the corporate ladder. This is before I started TikTok. I was at a law firm and I just felt Like, I climbed the corporate ladder. I was grinding, but I felt like my purpose in life wasn't being met. And I felt kind of, like, hollow and empty. I was like, I'm making tons of money. I thought, you know, by the time I got here that I'd be really excited about it. And, like, something was, like, a huge piece of me felt missing. And I realized I wasn't really honoring my full self in these corporate jobs. And so I tried to do, you know, transition to social media in the sense of. I'm like, maybe my. I always knew that I had a bigger purpose in life, so I'll start there. And I was like, I want to help as many people as possible. I didn't know what that looked like. I've always said that, even since I was a little kid. And so when social media came around and TikTok was a thing, once TikTok announced that they were moving stuff over to the U.S. i was like, okay, I feel comfortable. I read their privacy policy. I was like, but I'm only starting a TikTok if it's a force for good. And so I started it literally as Cyber Security Girl. I had three pillars in mind for the reasons why I started. One was to get more women and diversity into STEM careers. Two was to inspire more people to get into cybersecurity as a whole. Like, demystify what the heck cybersecurity is and how to, like, have a career in it, because I've had such an amazing career. And the third was just to educate the public on cybersecurity tips because I would always get asked all these crazy questions. And I was like, okay, maybe I should just start a channel about it. And it just, like, blew up. I mean, I will say definitely didn't do it overnight. A lot of people like, what's your secret? And I had told myself when I started my TikTok journey that I was. I was going to post three times a day for a year, and if it didn't work after a year, I'm not going to be wasting my time anymore. But at least I tried it. And I always like to say, like, try to throw a spaghetti at a wall and see what sticks. And this just stuck. And I've, like, continued to grow it and build it and had so many opportunities. But, yeah, I absolutely love what I do now. And a lot of people in cybersecurity don't even know I exist. Like, I'll go to conferences and, like, unless they're the younger generation, which is on social Media. Most middle to upper management have no idea who I am because they don't have social media.

Right. That's something that they kind of move away from.

Yeah.

It's interesting because I worked with investigators, like, detectives, and they always said, like, stay away from social media. Don't go on social media. And same with, like, very IT people who are very deeply involved in it.

Yep.

They would say the same thing. So it's interesting that you're kind of balancing those technically, like, conflicting, I guess, fields in a way.

Right.

That makes sense. What kind of engineering did you do? I wanted to ask.

I did aerospace, mechanical engineering.

Girl.

But people, everyone's like, you must be really smart. You always want what you can't have. Like, I literally can't write. English is my first and only language and I'm terrible at it. Like, really, really bad. Thank the Lord for ChatGPT, because now I just, like, plug all my, like, what I want to say and it, like, makes it into this, like, nice little letter. The worst person in English. But, like, I'm good at math and.

Science, so, you know, but because to me, like, an engineering degree sounds like something just out of space. Even though, like, I feel like you could probably train yourself to do certain things, but engineering just sounds way too intense on math and other sciences. Like, I just.

But so does, like, English. Like, that sounds, like, terrible to me. Like, that sounds like the worst thing I could ever sign myself up for.

Yeah.

Because I'm not good at essays and writing and just. Just know.

That's amazing, though. That's amazing that you followed something that you're good at and you're passionate about when it comes to social media and having a presence online. As someone who works in cybersecurity, what are some. I mean, I know that's like, basically I'm asking you to summarize, like, your whole page, but what are some, like, of the biggest things that are a huge no for you?

Yeah. Reusing passwords or having easy passwords. Like, passwords is like, absolutely number one. And people, like, really overlook it. Make passphrases or use a password manager. Uh, you, like, people really don't realize how important passwords are. Like, I mean, once they get in, they're. They're in. And then they can lock you out of whatever account they're trying to get in. Or they'll sit in it and, like, monitor what's going on and then try to exploit you for other things. So passwords is huge. Don't reuse passwords. There are ways in like that hackers can use like base passwords that were already leaked on the dark web and like find other variations and then log into your accounts too. So just really have separate passwords for different things. The other thing is if there are, if there is options to turn on multifactor authentication, which means that you, you are authenticating yourself twice. Like if you log in with a password and then you log in with a code that's sent to your phone or you know, there's authenticator apps now, which I would definitely recommend the app over a phone because there's so much SIM swapping nowadays, but definitely do that constantly have your software updated. So a lot of people, like, I don't want to like, I swear Apple does it where it slows my, My phone down. Update, update the software like this. It needs to be. There's usually bug fixes and it's not just the software for your phone, it's also like your apps. And so. And I think just like, be mindful of what you share. I think for me, obviously I've chosen, I've like picked my poison. I've chosen to be in the public eye. But there's a lot of people that I'm like, why are your profiles public? Like if, like if you want your friends to see it, then obviously just accept your friends and invite your friends or add them or follow them, have them follow you. And then who else needs to see this? Like, you don't need to be showing everyone. And again, there's so many softwares now where you like plug in a picture and you can see pretty much exactly where you are. And especially for parents, like, they don't realize this. And I, I will not have my kids on social media, like at all.

I have friends who are very strict about that too. And then I have others who don't really care. So why is that? Why would you not have kids?

I just think there's. Well, there's a lot of issues with social media. Obviously the US knows that, you know, they think that TikTok is feeding their kids certain things, but it's all social media.

That was the question that I was going to ask you. Is TikTok as bad as they make it sound?

No, I think social media is as bad as they make it sound.

Okay.

I think social media for kids is really bad. Actually the Florida just passed a legislation around kids under 15 or something not being able to have any social media whatsoever.

Right.

Which I think is extremely important and will fix most of the problems that the government says TikTok is the cause for, I think banning. TikTok is a band aid and we can go into that in like a second. But yeah, for kids, I mean, there's just so many online predators, there's so much cyberbullying. Like, there's so much comparison. I mean, we're adults and we compare. I can, I'll speak for myself, I still do have comparison issues, like all the time. I actually actively unfollow people that I'm like, I can't stop comparing myself to, even if they might be like a force for Good. Good. Like if I'm not able to get my headspace out of that, like, I need to not follow.

I'm not able to switch to inspiration. I'm like, how can this person inspire me?

Right?

And I start comparing myself. I usually just close my phone. I'm like, it's time for me to take a break because this is getting a little. Yeah, it's true. And imagine, imagine like a 14 year old girl.

Exactly. Like all these like kids that are so vulnerable to everything. I mean, it is insane. So there's, it's not just like for safety, but also like for their own, like mental health, which I think we saw a lot of mental health issues at the start of COVID because we were cooped up and everyone was on their phone. And that was again, one of the reasons why I wanted to be a force for good on TikTok because I was like, I just see so many people comparing themselves to these like adorable kids that are dancing and whatever. Like, I don't know what it is, but I didn't want to be that. I wanted to be like educating the public. So there's just a lot of issues. And if, if your kids are targeted, then it's really easy. Like if you're posting pictures of like, you know, your local, your local park or your local school and like there's a street sign or your school has a mascot. Like it's very easy for people to find you. Like, it's extremely easy for people to.

Find you and to find your kids.

And to find your kids and then to take your kids and like, it just, I just don't want to ever put them in that position until they're probably 14 to 16. I don't even, I think 16 is probably. I'm going to be the mean parent.

Yeah. But I think I will be too.

Yeah.

You know, like all the things that I was criticizing my mom for, it wasn't social media, it was other things. But now I realize that I'm probably going to be the same. I'm going to be very, like, strict about certain things because it's insane. And the whole online predator thing, oh, my God. Like, I.

It's a big deal that no one is talking, which I don't understand. No one is talking about online predators. I'm like, yes, you're upset that TikTok might be, like, understanding your kid more than you and feeding it videos that your kid probably shouldn't be watching, but they're looking it up anyways. I get that's an issue, but there are so many online predators and so much sex trafficking. I don't know if we're allowed to say this. Like, you might have to believe it out, but, like, that is.

You're allowed to say anything.

That's, like, a huge issue. And it's like, a lot of it's stemming from, you know, online presence. I actually, fun fact, I have an airtag, like, somewhere on my body right now. I, like, sent the location to my sister because I was like, I didn't. I obviously didn't, like, meet you in person, but I was like, okay, I have her WhatsApp, which is a pretty reliable source. And I was like, I have her social media. I have the address that we're supposed to go to. I sent it to, like, five people. Like, they're supposed to pick me up. There's an airtag. So if they take my phone away, like, I literally have, like, all this stuff precautions. Because social media, you really don't know. Like, I also made sure that, like, your last post was, like, recent. Right. Because some people, like, if hackers get into an account that has, like a. It's a big account, they could be messaging a lot of people, trying to get access to these people. So if, like, they've posted recently, it's not as sketchy because then, you know, like, it's probably not a hack.

See, that's something that, like, I bet you a lot of our listeners, myself included, right now, I wouldn't have even thought about that. Like, to look at those little details and things. Yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, I don't even know where we were at with that, but.

You were telling me that you were scared to come here. No, I was kidding.

Oh, yeah. Terrifying. I just. My sister is. Oh, no. We were talking about kids and, like, all the issues that are actually happening. And I think there are just so many other issues and that are, like, a lot bigger than we think.

Right.

And if we're able to prevent Our kids from that, then I'm all for blocking social media for kids, for sure.

I mean, I agree with you. I think it's a good idea not to let the. It's just hard to stop it. Like, I was thinking, how do you, as a parent, make sure that your child doesn't use social media? Especially if, you know, they go to school and all their friends use social media? Like, I was even thinking, I mean, Alex and I were talking. My husband Alex and I were talking about how, like, we're not gonna, like, give our child a phone at all. And it's like, okay, but then the child goes to school and like, everybody has a phone. And it's this whole thing that you have to balance and think about as a parent. I got so, you know, when you're on TikTok, and. And I rarely ever honestly go on TikTok because I find it so addicting. Not even addicting, but it's just so, like. Well, yeah, it is addicting for sure. Like, you go for. I'm just gonna scroll for five minutes, and then an hour and a half later you're like, what am I doing with my life? Right? Yeah, but the way the algorithm works, you know, it shows you obviously more of the things that you, like, pause on or you watch. And sometimes you get into rabbit holes of things. Like, I remember the first time I downloaded TikTok, I somehow ended down a rabbit hole of the earth is flat theory. Oh, no. And I literally was like, watching video. People were. And I was like, wait, this is a joke, right? And then I was like, wait, no, people, like, these people actually believe that there is. And then I literally got sucked into. And I was like, that's how it all starts, right? But I got down a rabbit hole. I don't even know how about online predators thing, and specifically pedophiles on TikTok. And I was horrified. And it's almost like awful. You, when. When you and this girl was showing how there's like these profiles that, you know, if you go in, like a child's profile, where a parent created that, which is insane, but a parent creates a page for child exploiting the kids, and then she went into the followers of that. I mean, it's just, it's. It makes me. I don't even know if there's a word to describe what you feel when you look at these things, but you look at the followers, and it's all men.

Yeah, like, and the comments are like, all men. And then, like, if there's any other Video that's like, not of the child or. But it's like, of the whole family. There's, like, way less interactions because. Yeah, but it's sad because I don't think a lot of parents do it on purpose, right? Like, I actually think they might even be, like, trying to provide for their family or, like, give their kid a good life or, like, it's similar to, like, pageant moms or like, any other, like, moms that are just, like, you know, wanting to better their kids. And also, like, a lot of the kids are asking to do it, right? So, like, in their eyes, I don't think they're really realizing that, like, creepy, creepy pedophiles are, like, watching all their stuff. And I think they might know it in the back of their head, but in their head they're like, well, if they're not doing anything, then, like, what's the harm?

Yeah, well, I have a friend whose daughter. She wants to be a performer. Like, and she has that personality. You can already tell. You know, she's like five or six. And you can tell that she loves to be on stage, she loves to perform, she loves to do all these things. So she's like, I'm conflicted. Cause I feel like social media could be a great opportunity for her. And she wants to be. She's like, obviously. Cause you see influencers and YouTubers and all that kind of stuff, so she wants to be part of it. So my friend is like, I don't know how to do that for her so that I don't deprive her of that opportunity. And then also don't expose her to a whole bunch of things that you don't want to believe in. Right. Like, as a decent human being, you just. Your whole world falls apart in your head when you realize that such evil exists out there.

Yeah. If I were her, I mean, if you really wanted to start an account, I would literally be filming in the same spot. Like, in, like, where there's nothing around you. Like, get white walls, I don't know, basement or something. Film it in the same spot where there's, like, no landmarks, no nothing, just completely white or black background. And I would probably, like, definitely try to just, like, do her face or, like, above. Because, like, if you do start doing, like, body shots of her, like, in a cute little dress, like, that's creepy. I mean, for me, too. Like, I don't know about you, but, like, I get crazy comments on my Instagram all the time if I ever show my foot in a photo. Like, I Don't ever. I used to, like, do a zoom. Like, whenever I'd go to the beach, I'd, like, do a picture of my foot. And then, like, without thinking too much.

Of it, you're like, right, yeah.

Like, look, I'm walking on the beach. Yeah. No, like, even if my foot in a heel, like, if it's like a full body shot, I cut my feet out. At least I try to, because I get, like, really creepy. And, like, if I'm getting that, like, can you only imagine, like, your kid in a cute little bathing suit doing a dance before the pool? Like, that's creepy. Like, don't. Yeah, like, do a head or an above and do, like, all white walls or background. And, like, never post anything outside where there's any type of landmark, sign, street sign, whatever.

But at least the location is private.

Private?

Yeah.

In your house with nothing around.

Oh, insane.

Yeah.

In terms of location, you and I chatted a little bit about it.

This.

The subject is, like, so crazy, honestly. You and I chatted about the AI tool that can now recognize where. Where you are. Let's talk about that. Because this ties really well into what we were just talking about.

Yeah. So there's.

Let's freak people out even more.

Yeah, let's do it. I mean, that's my whole goal, right? Clickbait. No. Okay, so there's like. I mean, it's not just this. There's many AI tools now where you can literally, like, if someone. Let's just say someone posts a story on their Instagram and they're just, like, walking around, like, a street somewhere, you can literally screenshot that story picture and upload it to this Prof. To this AI, and the AI will actually tell you, based on, like, what is in the background, the exact coordinates of probably where you are now. I mean, it's not like 100 accurate because it's AI, but it can be. Like, I did one when I was walking on the streets of New York. There were literally no street signs. All you could see was, like, a brownstone building in the background. And it wasn't even like a building. It was literally just, like, bricks, which to me, like, I went to school in Dallas, and that looked like something that could be in Dallas. It could be anywhere. It's just, like a red brick building. And it literally got my location to a T in New York. And I was just sitting there. And there's also a lot of people don't realize there's a lot of metadata connected to photos. So obviously for me, mine wasn't a screenshot of someone's photo. It was like my actual photo, I was taken. And a lot of times your phone, if you haven't turned it off, like, if you're able to go to your photos and like go to the map and it'll show you where you are, your phone obviously has metadata location data on each of your photos. So if you send that location data to someone else, they can see exactly where you took the photo without even using the AI. So you have to turn that option off. And then now, even if you don't have that option, even if you like, you know, stalk someone randomly and you screenshot any of their photos, like, for example, if you're a mom and you're taking pictures of your kids and you have like a whole slew of pictures of like family events or whatever, if it's in the general area of where you live, like parks, whatever, like I said schools, you can plug that in and kind of get a general location of where your house is located, which is insane. Like, it's not, it's not an ideal situation.

It's definitely not an ideal situation. What? Okay, so people are talking more and more about it. We've figured out which actually something that I was going to say and I totally forgot. I've heard people getting banned for talking about like children in, in on social media. And what we're just talking about, like I've heard people getting banned.

Right.

Talking about that, which is an interesting thing. Like, you think that it's spreading awareness and it's an important thing for everyone to know. So why our social media companies? I've heard that happening specifically with TikTok. Why are they banning that? I don't know. There's all sorts of conspiracies behind it. And who knows? But how, like how, how do we live our lives now? Like this thing, this thing that's like right here, it's like tracking everything constantly. And obviously, you know, we're in the public eye, so we've kind of chosen the path of. While being in the public eye and having that risk probably magnify or multiplied by, by many. So how do you, I guess try not to be in a position where you're at risk all the time?

Yeah. So again, the first thing I would do is ask yourself, like, do I need to be public? Like, if you're not trying to be an influencer or whatever, like, why are you public? I don't understand anyone that would be public without like. So really take that question in because I know I grew up in a world where you wanted all the social media you wanted to download, everything you wanted to share, you wanted discounts. I'll give you my email for. Just start locking it down. Start being very mindful of every time you're asked to share your data. Is it necessary? Do I have to do it? Can I check out as a guest? Do I have to have my profile as public? And then I would start locking it down. For example, if your profile is public and you're at the beach and you're at a specific hotel, let's just say sl less hotel. There's so many people that, like, tag exactly where they are, and it makes it a lot easier for social engineers to, like, get into your stuff. So, for example, I say this because I get really worried that if I ever say, like, a specific hotel that I'm staying at, because not. And even if I post it after I leave, it's not the risk of me being there and someone coming. It's the risk of now people knew where I was. And they can use AI to either, like, clone my voice or pretend that they're me. And, like, you know, a lot of my personal information is out in the public. And so it's not that hard to, like, maybe it won't be that hard to, like, verify if it's me because they're. They're calling, like, for example, hotel. And all you have to do is trick that one person into thinking that you're me. And then they're in. Like, how would that person know any better?

My bank.

Yeah.

Like, Toronto. I don't even know if I should say that, but Toronto, Dominion bank, like, TD in Canada. They just. Just, like, recently asked, and I realized it's kind of a silly idea. They did voice recognition.

Yeah.

So I. Now, when I. I don't even know if I should be saying this on this episode, I'm gonna call them afterwards and cancel this. But they basically have this feature where you don't have to do all the verification steps, you know, like your birthdays or whatever.

They just hear, you should probably call and cancel that.

I'm gonna call and cancel that, like, before this episode gets released.

Yeah.

Just so y' all know, if you're listening to this and you're a hacker, it's canceled already. But that's, like, probably the stupidest idea I'm realizing now, because, yeah, AI can clone you. They can clone your voice, and then they can use that, and you don't.

Even have to, like, it's not that hard to, like, have a girl. Like, the Marriott people don't know what my voice sounds like. They don't know who I am.

Right.

So if you're calling, you're like, hey, just stayed there. Like, can you, like, give me whatever, like, last word. Like, can I. Can you give me my information or my credit card? I don't know what they're gonna do, but, like, you can do that with airlines. Like, none of these people actually know who you are.

Well, they have some kind of software they told me that uses, like, a whole bunch of verification, whatever. They are right. To determine that it is specifically your voice. Like, it's done by a software. But then if you can clone somebody's.

Voice or just take screen grabs of or like, voice grabs of, like, any of your past episodes or what you've said online.

Like the dark. The. The deep web or dark.

No, I mean, if I go to your profile, I need. Say is like whatever the. The phrase is that they're asking you to say.

Right.

I just cut words from what you said online and you put it together.

Great. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you were saying you. You. You don't tag a hotel, so you don't let anyone know.

I try not to. Sometimes I do because I'm like, it's fine. But I try not to, like, tag a lot of places. And if I'm. If I'm tagging, I, like, wait till I'm leaving. Yeah, most of the time I just say what city I'm in. I like. And that's after I've left too. Like, a lot of people get very upset with me because my friends like, oh, my gosh, you're here. And I'm like, no, I was there two weeks ago. I just didn't want to post that. I was there until after I've left. So, like, lock your accounts down. Like, don't post everything. Like, where you are, who you are, whatever you're doing.

Like when you're going to the bathroom.

When you're going to the bathroom, what club you're going to, the person you just met. And then, like, also just in general, like, your digital footprint. Anytime you go online, it's. Things are getting tracked. And so again, like, we used to live in a world where, like, giving your email wasn't a big deal. Like, giving your email to me is a big deal unless you're able to generate temporary emails. Like, which it's. That's a whole thing in itself. It's not that complicated, but it's still annoying. Just, like, check out his guests. If you're not going, like, using that platform that often, Just really, really be mindful of, like, every website you visit. Like, I. I'm about to make. Well, I have already made sweatshirts. They haven't launched yet that says, like, I know your search history and, like, I know your password. And, like, it's like, very easy to find a lot of this stuff. And it's like, people freak out. And I'm like, I mean, think about it. Google and everything is, like, a free service, but nothing is free in America or in any other place in the world. So.

Right, so what do you do if you're a. If you're a travel influencer and you have deals with hotels that you post when you're there? That's something freaky. I've never actually had a deal with hotel, to be honest with you. But if I ever do and they want me to post in real time while I'm there.

Do they actually?

I don't know.

Actually, I've never. I've never done it. I've always wanted to. I'm like, can I use my stuff? Like, I'm going to Dubai soon. And I'm like, would I be able to? And I think this is gonna air after I come back, so it doesn't matter. But I'm like, would I be able to, like, post this? And, like, can I get this, like, for free? Because I'm gonna post that I'm here, but I don't know. I don't. Hopefully you don't have to do it in real time. And then usually when I go to hotels, I'm like, if anyone claims that they're me, like, I, like, ask the front desk. I'm like, I will never be calling for anything unless it's, like, from my hotel room. I mean, I don't think it does very much, but, like, I would just not post it real. Like, what is the. You were just posting in real time?

Yeah, you would just say, I'm saving all of the content and then I will give you guys a shout. Shout out or whatever.

Yeah.

Later on. Yeah, because I was wondering about that too. I try not to post in real time as well, especially when I go to, like, restaurants and stuff like that. But with hotels, I was always wondering how that would work. Because technically, like, you are never guaranteed to not have, like, a criminal who potentially watches your Instagram stories.

There's a lot of criminals out there. We just don't realize.

And they use social media.

Oh, yeah. Like, social media is, like, the Easiest way to find information. Like, so in, in cybersecurity there's this thing called osint, which is open source intelligence. And like most of this stuff is. Most of the information that hackers are getting is from this open source intelligence. And open source can be social media. It can be like data brokers in the U.S. so there's just a lot of information. And like, for me, like, data brokers are a huge thing in the U.S. like, I, I find it ironic. I absolutely love the US government. I think some of the stuff they're saying about TikTok, like, we're in cyber warfare. I understand why they're worried. We've been in cyber warfare since the start of cybersecurity in 1987, I think is when like the CIA triad started. It's a whole nother thing. But, like, there's just. We sell our data, our people's data to like everywhere, even to other countries. Like, it's a free for all because we want, the US Wants to make money. And I think there was just a rule that like passed that said their data brokers are going to stop selling data into international countries. But I find it ironic that we're like, blaming TikTok for like, using our data in China when our data brokers, as long as you paid the right fee, you're getting all this information on people in the US and it's a public source. Like, I can go right now on hundreds of websites, look up even your first name and like even the first thing of your last initial or your phone number or any of that. There's also reverse phone lookup. So, like, I can, if even if I just had your phone number, I'd be able to look up your name. And then from your name, I can look up like everything else about you, your address, your. Some of them even gives you your IP address, like your parents address, your siblings. And it is, it's insane. And it's all public. Like, I literally can do this right now in 30 seconds and like, get. If you're in the U.S. really? Yeah. And so I, I partnered like when I first started my cybersecurity journey because I was so, I was like, I have a big target on my back. I partner with a company called Delete Me and they literally actively go into all these data brokers every two months and delete my data. Because I'm like, I don't want any part of this. Like, I don't want anyone knowing who the heck I am. I mean, most people know who I am.

But like, right, right, right.

That much.

There's just a level. Right. Like, I don't want people to know where I live necessarily. Or like, where am I? You know, it's. It's. It's a bit of a. Yeah.

And the other thing about the US Is if anyone buys property in the US it is impossible to get your name off the property listing, and that is public. So what I strongly recommend people do is, like, put it in a living trust. And, like, don't ask me how to do that because I. That's like, not. I. I paid someone to put mine in a living trust.

Okay.

But that way your name is completely disassociated with the address.

Do you know what a living trust is? Like, the definition of it? No.

I should probably.

But your name is off the.

Yeah, it's like, basically it's like a. Like a trust under your name. And it's like. But you're obviously alive still.

Yeah.

And it's like it's still underneath you, but you don't. The trust doesn't have your name in it or on it. Like, it's. It's block. I'm probably saying this completely wrong, but. Yeah, it's. It's a living trust. That's all I got. It's just put it in living trust and you're the sole owner of the living trust. But no one knows because living trusts are, like, locked down.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, we'll look into it. It's interesting. I. I'm not, like, I'm not freaked out about that stuff until I start hearing about it. And I'm like, wow, this is. It's. It's not even. You know, we all know that governments are spying on us, right? Like, all governments spy on its citizens.

I know. Like, but like, everywhere, a lot of people are. Ignorance is bliss with that. Like, they don't think it is. I'm like, there's a reason why there's a. Going after TikTok and not meta. Like, let's think about.

So you're. You're saying that basically TikTok and Meta are doing the same stuff. Like the fact that, like, you know, they always say, like, TikTok is basically a software that. What was that? I heard, based on your, like, facial features, they're basically gathering all the information from your phone, all of your apps, all of that kind of stuff. So, yeah, Meta is doing the same thing.

So I worked at TikTok. I saw the whole thing. I mean, obviously I'm not going through hundreds and thousands of lines of code. So I didn't see that. But I do know like the people I worked with and the types of data that were collected and like none of that was what I saw. So I don't know where all these conspiracy theories are coming from. I think it's the government, but I think Meta and TikTok are exactly the same and this might be a conspiracy theory. We'll go for it. I think the main issue is that the US has complete control of Meta and since TikTok is not like fully controlled by the US government, then it's a threat. And to be fair, I get it. Like again, we're in cyber warfare, you never know what's going on. But I do think TikTok has been extremely, extremely transparent with everything. Like, I don't know if you watched the, the hearings of with show the CEO of TikTok. There's, there's so many issues with social media as a whole. And like that hearing was mostly about issues with social media, not necessarily issues with TikTok.

Right.

Which. All of which could be, you know, okay, let's ban social media for kids. Let's make every social media company be transparent with every single line of code. And why don't you audit those, you know, both companies or all companies, YouTube, Meta, whatever. I just think there's. Because they're not fully in control and it's not a US based company. They're very, very, very worried and I get it, rightfully so. But I do think TikTok has been very transparent, more transparent than any social media company I know about, like what they've collected and like they're really, really trying to answer the government's questions. So I see both sides of it. It's just, it's hard because I think banning TikTok is a band aid to the problem and I think there's a lot of other issues.

Well, the basically admitted that Twitter was all up in government's control when it was not under musk. Right, Right. Which is the same, which is crazy if you think about. And so much stuff gets censored on Instagram. Right. Especially like around elections and all that kind of stuff. That. Yeah, it's an interesting point And I guess TikTok is in a way out of their control. There's always like a weary feeling. I just personally am not a fan of TikTok. Like I don't really like using that platform. I really love Instagram.

Right. Just the interface.

Yeah, I just really love it. I wish there was a way to make it all work strictly for us because there's huge opportunity in social media and it's great for many other things, but it's also definitely a way to control. And did you watch that movie Social Dilemma, the documentary? Yeah, I watched them. Like a month later, I started the social media career of mine. So I was like, damn it, like, do the complete opposite. But I do feel like they missed a lot of, like, the good stuff that it also has done. I really appreciate all of the concerns that they've brought up. But it's funny, like, I saw one of the main guys who like, basically produced it or he was in it, he has a social media presence. So I'm like, wait a minute, you know, so it's.

You got to pick your poison. And I also think, like, I think the government's just trying to do its best to protect our people. Like, at the end of the day, it's like the bottom line, like, the U.S. wants to be generating income strictly in the U.S. like, there's a lot of. There's a lot. It's a lot more complicated than we think. And I totally get that. I. The reason why I like TikTok is because it pushes it out to everyone. It doesn't really care, like about the amount of followers you have. It pushes it out the same way to everyone. And it's based on like, weird though.

Because, like, sometimes I'll get like, Instagram is much more consistent.

Exactly.

TikTok is like a video that will have millions of views on Instagram for me, will have like 400 views sometimes on TikTok. And I'm like, yeah, makes no sense. Yeah, it's very strange.

It's. It is strange, I think. I mean, I really like the fact that I am able to reach people that aren't following me. I think Instagram, it's like random. Like sometimes because we have a large following. It is consistent because it's going to be consistently to like to our following. And then sometimes it randomly goes out to everyone else. Whereas TikTok, it always starts with everyone else. It really doesn't matter that much about your following. And then it's like, how much watch time. Everyone's like the watch time and interactions and then it will get continued to get pushed out. And I think there's like four levels of like, types of viral virality to the videos and it's like based off of interactions and watch time for TikTok.

What about OnlyFans?

I couldn't tell you. I have actively avoided that website. I don't ever Want to be on it.

We were talking about how it's crazy how many, like, emails I get. And you were mentioning you get some. Some requests to people somehow draw conclusions after watching our content that we would be interested in something like that. Yeah, but you were mentioning before we started recording that you get quite a few requests or questions from former Only fans.

Yep. Yeah.

Participants. I don't know what you would.

Participants. Players in the game. I don't know. Oh, yeah, a lot of, like, I think, like, past OnlyFans is what I'm assuming. Past OnlyFans, mostly girls. I don't think I've ever gotten a guy past OnlyFans. Models have asked me if there's any way they can delete their photos online. And it's really hard because there's. There's not. Like you can delete your profile, but any pictures that you posted that were, like, sent to someone. I don't know how the platform works, so I really don't understand it. But, like, I'm assuming that, like, photos get sent to your inbox or, like, whatever messages get sent. Like, it's like an inbox type of thing. I have no idea.

But screenshot, and then.

Exactly, you screenshot it. You can take a photo of the photo because, like, I know some apps don't permit you to screenshot or like, for example, if you're watching. I only know this because I was watching ABC News on my phone because I just did an interview with them and I was trying to screen record the interview, but I couldn't because it's like, wasn't allowed. But you can still take pictures of your phone. Like, there's so many ways that you can take pictures. And then once those people have pictures, they can either upload it or share it with friends or whatever. And it's just like this. It's exactly like a computer virus. It literally just goes everywhere. So once you have photos uploaded, unless it's like a trusted friend and even that, like, just don't. Just don't put out photos that you never want to be circulated because they're going to be circulated. Like, I can help you delete it from the source, but it's already been spread to other sources. And then all those are new sources of truth which, like, is impossible to track. You cannot track that. We're not on, like, a blockchain where, like, you can track every interaction. It just, It's.

I was recovering from a surgery once and I was really bored, and I found this documentary called Life After Porn.

Oh, boy.

Wait Is it good?

Because I love documentaries.

It's decent. Like, if you ever wonder what happens when a porn star quits doing porn, watch that documentary, you know, I never wonder, but.

But you watched it.

But I watched it. I watched so many. It was like a two week period that I was recovering from it. I was like, I've watched so many things, like, what else could I watch? And I was like, life after porn. And then I like read the synopsis or whatever and I was like, oh, okay, why not? But it's basically, it was before, obviously, Onlyfans, you know, generation, all that kind of stuff. But they basically talk about how it is impossible. Like it's forever stays with you. You have, you're always going to be for the rest of your life a sex worker. And it follows like I think three or four former porn stars and one of them like worked really hard on getting all the content off the platforms that she was on.

Yeah, but it's just off the platform. It's not off of like people's phones.

And I think it was like her son or something came from school one day and he was getting bullied because somebody found his mom online and she like worked so hard to get all of those, you know. So I think obviously, you know, don't put out something that you don't want to put out. But also I think a lot of those cases, like, they thought they wanted it to be put out, they didn't care and then they decide to have like a switch in their, you know, life, career and they're like, oh shit, this is going to be there forever.

And that's the same. It's not even like, so it's like with videos and whatever, like that's the same for everything. But even social media posts and like Snapchat, we can go to Snapchat and then we'll go to social media. But like Snapchat, like a lot of kids just like are like, oh, it disappears after 24 hours. Like, or whatever after they open it. It's like you can literally take a screenshot of the phone. Like it doesn't ever disappear. Like, if you don't want your mother seeing it or your father seeing it or a loved one seeing it. I like to say my grandma, because my grandma will be so disappointed and I ever did anything like that, then like, don't send it. The other thing is like the Internet always remembers there's a thing called like the Internet Archive. It used to be called the Wayback Machine. And so like a lot of people Used to post, like, when you're younger, you post, like, stupid stuff on Twitter or X or on Instagram, and then you delete it after when you get older because you're like, well, this is embarrassing, and I don't want people thinking about it. If you go to, like, the Internet Archive, you can go to, like, your exact profile, you know, 10 years ago, and it'll show you what it looked like, which includes all the stuff that you previously deleted. So it's like, I don't think people realize anytime they're, like, on the Internet, sending photos back and forth or whatever it is. Like, just be very mindful, even as. And that's another reason why I don't want my kids to have stuff like this. Because when I was younger, I had no idea.

Right?

You don't know that, like, and you don't understand the consequences of it, like, at all. Like, I used to. I was born and raised, like, in the chat room era, like, aol. And, like, my mom would obviously be like, don't go into random chat rooms. It's similar to, like, chat roulette and stuff, too. Like, that is a whole nother we had back home.

Icq. Did you guys have this? Icq?

It's Omegle now, right? Is that what it's called?

I don't know, but it had, like, a very distinct sound that was really hilarious. I'm going to find it. I'm going to. I'm going to do a test of, like, how old the followers are. It was called icq and it was like a chat. Like, you go on your computer and you chat with people and everybody was using it back home.

Right.

And it was hilarious. But I'll find it and I'll play it because it's actually, like, a really. I feel like if you hear the sound, you will recognize it.

Yeah.

ICQ sound. Because I wonder if it's the same thing, because North America had little bit different things than we did. But was it this one? Oh, this is an ad. Yes, that one. That one. No, not that. This is some modern stuff. I don't know what this is, but yeah, that one, like. Oh, it had, like.

I don't remember that.

No, no.

But we would go into, like, chat rooms, like, random chat rooms, and we thought it'd be so cool to talk to people from all over the world. Little did we know we could have been talking to, like, creepy pedophiles. We'd give them, like, our phone number. I hope my mom's not listening to this. Wow.

Okay.

So the whole thing was, like, you think you did asl, like, age, sex, location, and then you'd, like, tell them all that. And I never would say, like, exactly where I was. And I'd always lie about my age. Because you wanted to be, like, cool and older. But then, like, I think there were a few times. This is so bad. I'm just remembering this now. I hope my mom's not watching, but she watches every podcast. I actually, like, one time gave my landline phone number because we don't have cell phones at the time, and they, like, called and I answered. But, like, that, like, your kids just don't, like. I just don't know. We think it's, like, cool and, like, it's like, same with Omegle. Like, you're, like, randomly getting. I think that's what it's called. Like, randomly getting matched with people and, like, video. Like, video chatting. Like, we were bored. We thought it was interesting, but you just don't know who you're talking to on the other side. And I think it's, like, terrifying.

It is terrifying.

Yeah.

What are your thoughts on dating? Like, what? I've. I am. I don't know if I. I shouldn't say I'm proud of it. I have. I've known couples that have met on Tinder, and they're married now and they have children, but I have never used a dating website or app. My husband I met 10 years ago, Tinder was just starting. Right. Is there, like a. Like a. Like a. I guess a scarier aspect of a dating app than there is, like, with regular social media. Because I feel like you can use Instagram as a dating app, too, probably.

If you really wanted to slide into people's DMs.

Yeah. Yeah. Normal.

I mean, there's a ton of romance scams. Usually it's for, like, older people that are on that, like, just aren't as aware of what's going on. Which. There. There are a lot of websites. And actually, if you go to my page, I show you. But there's a way that you can, like, if you think someone's too good to be true. And I know my mom, my friend said, sent this to her mom, and her mom actually found out she was getting scammed. But, like, there's a way that you can, like, take the. Their profile pictures and, like, plug it in, and it will show all of their online profiles and where they're found, and you can make sure that they're actually who they say they are. But I. I tried to do the whole online dating thing for so long, and it's not my cup of tea, but, like, my cousin got married to her. The person that she met on, like, I know so many people that it worked. I just. And maybe this is just me being, like, weird. I just feel like I. I can't.

Yeah.

And it's not because I'm like, oh, like, you know, above it or whatever. I just feel like I've tried, and it just never, ever worked. Like, I'm a person that, like, loves organic meetups. Loves, like, you know, I'll go up to a guy at a bar if I think they're attractive, and maybe I'm just.

You'll go up to the guy at the bar?

Yeah, if I know. I know what I want.

Right. Okay. Okay. Interesting. I'm so incredibly traditional and have always been when it comes to that stuff. Like, if my husband didn't ask me for my phone number, I would have never.

Yeah, I mean, I've been. I've been trying. Well, this is back in the hustle culture. Right. But I think I. Literally. Every single boyfriend I had, which is then four, I was the one that went up to them.

Really.

Like, in high school, I went up to him. I had, like, one of every, like, high school, college, right after college, one from every phase. Every phase of life. They're all great. But I went up to every single one of them.

Interesting.

Obviously, that didn't work out. We're still single here, but I've been really trying to break into my feminine and, like, let's let a guy come to me.

Yeah.

So, I mean, still not working out very well.

But you mentioned that you were struggling with that. And this is a subject that I really love discussing on my podcast because it's a. It's surprisingly a huge pain for pretty much every woman I meet in this part of the world. It became a struggle for me after working in the corporate world, even though I come from. I mean, I'm. I'm from Moldova and, you know, all. All. Everyone I meet in North America, actually, whenever they hear anything related to Eastern Europe or Russia, they Right away. And dating, they right away think of all, like, giant bouquets of roses and all of those, you know, because that's how.

Right.

That's how it is back home. You don't approach the guy. He always comes to you first. Like, there's, you know, the day my grandma taught me. But it's interesting because you definitely can't help but fall into more of, like, a masculine, like. Like, all Time, masculine figure. Because there's going to be a balance. You also, like, I really don't believe that you can always be in your soft feminine and feel, you know, there's a balance.

Right.

How are you going through that? Because that's a fairly recent transition for you. How. How are you moving towards your feminine? How is that kind of working?

Yeah, so like you said, I've been very much in my masculine. I think the feminist movement, specifically in the US has put a lot of females in their masculine, and it's been daunting for a lot of males at this point because.

Very masculinity.

Exactly. It's very emasculating for men because, you know, women, we can do it, but the whole purpose is to let the men do it, not do. I mean, to a certain extent. And so I feel like when I was in corporate, I was grinding, grinding, grinding. I even, like, I used to be very girly when I was, like, really little. Like, I'd wear Barbie heels and I'd, like, dress up to school, and I loved it. And then, like, when I started getting, like, in my grind, like, Right. Which was when I was in college or when I was starting to apply to college, when I started getting, like, in my grind, I really stopped, like, doing a lot of feminine stuff, which is even, like, getting ready for this pod. Like, getting ready, like, so for this podcast, for example, I'm like, no, I want to, like, feel cute and look good. Like, sometimes I don't even. Like, I used to not wear any makeup to podcasts. I was like, no, I mean, I'm in. I'm in tech. Like, I can just be part of being in tech. Like, this is what I look like. And so, like, grinding really made me ignore a lot of my feminists. Not feminist, feminine traits. And I realized that, like, my superpower is being able to do both. Like, I want to be. And I also want to be able to drop into my feminine when I. When I want to be. And so one of the reasons why I quit corporate was because I was grinding so much, and I was like, this isn't truly who I am. And for me, I've always wanted. I actually thought I was going to be, like, a young mother. Like, that's how feminine I was. Like, I'm going to be a young mother. Like, like, motherhood's like, I want to be, like, an elementary school teacher. I want to just, like, teach and, like, like, follow the. Follow the man and, like, whatever. And I'm probably gonna get a lot of slack for this being like a. A woman in cyber. But, like, that's how I was. I always wanted to be. And then corporate kind of changed me. And so I'm really trying to drop back into my feminine and like, you know, I. I don't know what that looks like besides, like, you know, getting dressed up, feeling pretty, like, surrendering a lot of times rather than trying to take control and like, letting a man lead. So if I'm like, going on a date, like, whatever, letting him lead, letting him set up, I don't have to be the one in control and just like, trusting that process versus controlling the process.

100. I think in this part of the world, a lot of. And I'm not, you know, being. Well, I am being critical. I always give these disclaimers. I'm like, yeah, no judgment. I'm about to judge, you know.

Yeah.

But in this part of the world, that whole concept of, like, masculine feminine energy has gone so, like, so sideways. And I always said, like, I'm a firm backwards. I'm all. I'm. I've always been a believer in equal opportunity, but I really don't think we should be competing with one another because that's not healthy, you know. And most like, very, you know, masculine women that I know in my life, they would love to have a stronger male figure besides them who is going to be like, just relax, it's fine. Like, I'll take care of things, I'll plan the date, I'll pay the bill, you know, and it's. I mean, I made a whole career out of talking about this stuff. Right. In my part of the world, there's other issues maybe, but I feel like people have really figured out this whole, like, equality of opportunity without totally diminishing and destroying each other's rules.

Right. And for a while, like, I was one of those where I was like, super, like, again, grinding. I was wearing the pants. And then I was like, why can't a guy just be, like, even more masculine and, like, sweep me off my feet? And it's like, well, I'm sure they could, but there's like, very few men that are able to do that. Especially if you're like, we like to call them boss babes. Which I felt like I really, like, embody for a really long time. And I still think I am that. But I don't have to be that 24, seven.

Yeah.

And I don't want to be that 24. It's exhausting. It's not where I'm supposed to be or What I want to be, it's not going to lead me to where I want to be. And so it's figuring out that balance of, like, when I need to be in my, like, boss, babe, you know, thing. I'll. I'll be in it. But I'm trying to make every kind of, you know, moment, if I can be as feminine and as light and as. As possible. Like, even with, like, I went to a conference, I was like, I'm gonna dress up every day. I want to, like, look cute and, like, feel like my best and just be, like, my full feminine self, and I don't have to, like, you know.

Yeah.

Look like a slump because everyone else looks like men and not wearing makeup.

Yeah. Come with me to Eastern Europe. Yeah. After spending, like, two weeks there, because you cannot go to take out the trash unless you put on makeup. Because God forbid you run into a neighbor who see. And not even, like, you know, I'm married, but, like, God forbid I leave my apartment when I'm there, like, staying with my mom without makeup, because you're gonna run into somebody. Somebody's gonna talk to somebody else and tell them they saw Cristina from Canada. Oh, my God, she looks so pale. She doesn't wear makeup, you know, like.

All of these things. Is she sick?

She's. You got to, like, always look good put together.

Yeah.

It used to be, like, ridiculous. Like, you used to have to wear heels everywhere you'd go. Like, there's still women. Sometimes you go to the grocery store, and she looks like she's going to, like, a wedding.

Yeah.

And she just went to the grocery store to get some eggs. You know what I'm saying? But, like, for her. Yeah, but.

But.

But there's just, like, this effort that is always being put in. The flip side of that is. And changing that a little bit. But men used to not put any effort in themselves back there. Now it's changing a little bit because so many women have left and, like, married other, you know, cultures and stuff like that. They were like, whoa. We have to, like, you know, put a little bit of effort in ourselves so that our women just, like, don't leave. I'm gonna get canceled for that. Although in my part of the world, you don't get canceled. You just say, whatever. Yeah. It's all good.

I know I'm probably gonna get canceled from all of, like, the women that are, like, she's like a. You know, But.

But I don't understand what's wrong with, like, wanting to be, like, not wanting to be Like a man. Why. Why has that become such a problem in this part of the world? Why can't I come out and say. Or you can't come out like, hey, I still want to be in my feminine. I still want to have a masculine guy by my side. And I work in this field that is, you know, like, I. I can.

Why.

Why do I have to go to such extremes? You know, like, if I'm working in this field, I have to be this way, and that's it. And I can't tone it down or turn it off when I'm at home.

Yeah.

It's just a very. It's. It's a culture of extremes.

Yeah. I don't. I don't know why. I just feel like a lot of people are like, feminists. Like, she's like a strong woman and, like, leading cyber. And I am. But, like, I don't have to be that all the time. And I. True. And I used to. People would get really mad at me when I was like, okay, if I've ever taken on a first date and he's not paying, like, I. I'm gonna offer because I'm gonna be nice about it, but if anyone.

I wouldn't even offer.

I know. I. I need to get over it. If anyone accepts that, it's immediately never going to be a second date, like, ever, ever. Like, I need to be taken care of. I can take care of myself, but when I do that, then I, like, get more my masculine and, like, I want a guy to, like, it's not taken care of. I want a guy to lead me, and I can't be led if I'm the one, like, controlling and leading myself.

Exactly.

So.

Yeah. Amen. Caitlin, thank you so much.

Thanks.

I really appreciate your time.

Yeah, of course.

This is a wonderful conversation and thank you to our wonderful listeners to tuning into this episode. I will see you next week. It.