Gender Equity Rebels Natacha & Cynthia

Hello everyone, my name is Cynthia Fortlage and welcome to another edition of the Gender Equity Rebels. Now today I'm very blessed to have Natasha Guia with me, and I'm going to let Natasha introduce herself momentarily. But today we're going to be talking about the International Women's Day 2024 theme of Inspire Inclusion. Hi Natasha, how are you?

Hi Cynthia, I'm doing great. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited we get to do that today.

Oh, it's fabulous. Our first conversation was so engaging, I could hardly wait to get here today. You could probably tell by how quickly I got the notes to you because the conversation was just so inspiring.

Oh yes, and I accidentally tried to log on into 30 minutes early to our call, so I think that it was very mutual and there was like Oh, that's okay.

Wonderful. Wonderful. Now, Natasha, could you tell the folks who will be watching this a little bit about yourself and what you do? Sure.

So my name is Natasha Guillaume. My pronouns are she/her, and I am the Video Sorceress, which is a fancy and deliciously witchy way to say that I'm a video coach and strategist. I do help creatives, entrepreneurs, and small business owners create and repurpose engaging videos so they elevate their brand and attract more clients. But as I joke, I'm also your neighborhood nerdy queer witch, and as such, I'm also a professional tarot reader for business and career, where I bring over 20 years of experience to help you gain clarity and inspiration for your current professional season.

Wow, that's just such an amazing amazing set of skills that you bring to the table. Thank you for making the time to be with us today.

Well, thanks for having me. I'm always happy to talk about that, you know, and talk about how we can inspire inclusion on International Women's Day and every other 364 or 365, like this year, day of the year.

Yeah, exactly. Now, according to the International Women's Day website, um, the way they describe it is When we inspire others to understand and value women's inclusion and forge a better world, and when women themselves are inspired to be included, there's a sense of belonging, relevance, and empowerment. That's what they say it means. So Natasha, for you, what does this year's theme of Inspire Inclusion mean to you?

For me, well, I really love the idea of both inclusion and creating belonging because— and I would say the work starts with us. I mean, I do understand that I do have some privileges as a white woman compared to other groups, even if I belong to some other minorities. But it's also like the work we need to do for ourselves, doing the unlearning and changing, recognizing our own bias, which is a lifelong journey. And then in turn, we can take more aligned action which can also be shut the hell up and, you know, promote other voices, which it can be easy to have this idea of the helper, which is an issue. We can sometimes be tied with unconscious white savior issues. I've been there. I've been guilty of that. I recognize that. But it's also like, okay, no, I need to really promote others. I have work to do to make the place better and be, you know, an ally or part of it. But it's also like knowing how to center the relevant voices to inspire this inclusion.

Yeah, no, I absolutely get that. I mean, certainly in my day work of dealing with, you know, the aspects of gender diversity within corporates and really helping those corporates that are committed to inclusion with an ultimate goal of creating, you know, safe spaces where everyone feels they belong. To me, you it completely resonates with that kind of work. But I thought what was really interesting was from my former experience being the national leader with Women's March Canada, the feminist organization, was understanding the aspect from a Feminism 4.0 perspective of the importance of intersectionality when we talk about this idea of inspiring inclusion. And just for the audience, if you're not aware, the The idea of intersectionality is actually co-opted from the Black feminist movement. And so we really need to recognize the origin of where that came from. And really what it talks to is it talks about all the ways that oppression intersects with a person's identity. It's not a singular aspect, it's actually multiple. And I thought it was intriguing that The person who created the concept and shared it, Kimberlé Crenshaw, who's a lawyer, civil rights advocate, and intersectional feminist, has this quote that says, "If you see inequality as a them problem or an unfortunate other problem, that is the problem." Does that speak to you, Natasha, and the experiences that you've had, or do you have another perspective that you wanted to share?

I do agree with that quote, and I think that it can also depend on the culture where you're in and certain privilege. Like, for example, I mean, I grew up in France. I mean, I'm originally from France. My name, my accent sell me out within 30 seconds. But it's like, there's a lot of feminist issues of inequality in France, but there was also certain things, for example, like religious, uh, religious patriarchal certain issue that I did not experience in France. Even I, I'm more spiritual, agnostic, however you see it now, but I went as an agnostic person for 8 years in a Catholic school in France. I had a blast. There was never any word about, you know, forced abstinence or wait until marriage or anything. We had Jewish teachers, we had agnostic teachers, we, we still had, you know, Christian education, but it was an added topic. So for me, I didn't have— it's like, for me, the form of Christianity in France that I was faced was kind of still fairly chill, I would say, you know. And moving to the US, I spent 3 years in Texas. I came to Texas for my PhD in a really open-minded, uh, queer-friendly university, which I don't know if they exist in Dallas, to be honest. You know, Austin, I could have get it, but Dallas, I don't know. But even there, it was kind of like, wow, the way many of the churches and, you know, conservative approaches look at women or interpret it, like even the Bible, I'm just like, that kind of hit me in the face. That was a cultural shock, even though from afar I was understanding it, you know, that it was a problem. And I was, you know, happy to support friends even from when I lived in France, however I could. Like, that was a really different lived experience because stuff that I was taking for granted Even from friends, I was just like, oh. And which was interesting was even though, you know, sometimes I shocked people without meaning to, just, you know, talking about stuff I took for granted as a woman. And then I saw reaction and like, oh, how can you say that or whatever? And I use my reply was usually, I'm French. And then you saw people just make a weird face and start to tell them something. I don't know what stories. That was the end of the story. I call it my get out of jail free card. But it was still like a really cultural shock in something that was still within a kind of, you know, still white, um, approach, and so still privileged. But I was still like, that was a cultural shock, and I was just like, wow, uh, there's stuff I took for granted as a woman in France that is definitely not something to take for granted here, right?

It's so intriguing. Now, I mean, to— by today's terms, Franciscine, you know, within the EU space is really advancing, um, a lot of the gender diversity movement. Um, you know, there's a lot of language. Did you have a sense of that as a part of the culture growing up? Like, does that res— the France today, does that resonate with your experience, or is this something new and different that we're seeing, um, because of perhaps the global awareness and the role that France is playing within the EU?

I think that it was, you know, it was this kind of thing that we took for granted. Like, even, you know, every, you know, I was talking about being in Catholic school, you know, that nobody talked about abstinence except saying that's American thing, which again, it's like, if it's a personal preference, a personal belief, I'm supporting 100% for you. But it was not, you have to do that or, you know, whatever is going to happen. So The— so it was like, it was the taken for granted. Looking back, I'm just like, oh no, we were actually really advanced. You know, even there was issues like every— everywhere else, because I mean, you, you have abusers, everything. I mean, that's like— and there's even now we see with the Depardieu affair and others, uh, where it's kind of like protecting the great artists even though they're garbage humans. I mean, to put it bluntly, uh, and abusers. But generally speaking, it felt like there was more leeway for equality. And I think that the fact that now we're making progress, we are hopefully getting closer to get abortion rights enshrined in the Constitution in France, which I'm really hoping for that. And it's— so I understand where it is. It's just that I may not have had this being conscious of it at such a level. Now, having been living in the States or seen other issues crop up in other countries, it's like, Oh, wow. There's issues in France, obviously, but it's like seeing it, which country does not have issues? I mean, let's, let's be honest, but it's, I am not surprised looking back that it went there. It just, again, you know, kind of privileged approach of like, oh, I, I did take that for granted. It didn't really cross my mind that it, you know, could be that bad. You know, at least when I was a teenager or something, you know, as you grow up and you start to be exposed. To other, you know, countries and cultures, you kind of learn even if you do not actually live in there. But when I was a teenager, I took that for granted. I'm going to be honest.

And okay, no, that's great. Are there any specific issues that you've encountered that, quote, are French issues, like they're very unique to France that you haven't experienced either the same degree or at all elsewhere? Or do French women experience the same things that we all do?

I, I don't think we have any particular issue. I think the, the issues we encounter are issues that we women are going to encounter in other countries. You know, we don't have, at least in my experience, I've not seen anything that was particular to, uh, to France in that regard.

Yeah, I, I mean, the issues growing up and like what you've talked about, did any of that influence the work that you do today?

I was lucky to be raised in a feminist house. My mother was really interested in feminism, and so I do not have any titles coming up to me, but I grew up, you know, reading feminist stuff, uh, being encouraged, you know, to, uh, powerful female characters. And I— my background is in film and media studies, and most of my work was representation of women in science fiction because I was passionate about that and really the role of women and that then tied into mythology and, and a lot of other things. So it's like as the role of women was always something that was really interesting to me, including the idea of being a strong woman beyond the reductive popular culture way of like the woman warrior that is just full of muscles and like looking at how other forms of strength can exist. That's something that really, that I was passionate about growing up. And I'll be honest, one of my role models growing up was Princess Leia from Star Wars. So that's— I'm—

okay, that's fabulous. Now, having that kind of background and growing up, you talked a little bit in your introduction about, you know, some of the tarot work you do, but the tarot work and representative of gender. And, you know, I myself use goddess cards as the form of guidance, if you will, that I interpret through that process, which is clearly very gendered in the process. While it's very international, it's very gendered. I mean, have you struggled with kind of that space and understanding some of the gender-related challenges that might— that women might face within the world of tarot, especially diverse women?, you know, who wouldn't quote have been necessarily assigned female at birth or perhaps are seen more marginalized. And we'll talk about some of the communities in a moment. But have you had experience in there? And is there any kind of insights you can share with us about that?

Yes. No, thank you for bringing that up. So it was not something when I started, when I was 16, when I was a teenager, that really hit me. I was still, you know, working through, you know, my own orientation, you know, my own identity, you know, as a queer woman. You know, there was like I mean, if you look back, there were signs that there was no way in hell I was straight, but that's a whole other thing. So I think as I grew up, as I was more educated, also thanks to Franz and, you know, doing my own work, it was really more and more visible that, you know, there's still a very strong binary and traditional gender representation with the history of the tarot. So I know that in my approach now, I do personally resonate with I think the archetype, I like thinking of it more in terms of energy, you know, an energy of archetype than just being it's a purely, you know, person role. And I love that there are more decks now that are more open to, you know, to think and redo the imagery differently. And I think this is also a lot of conversation that can be here. And I recently read an amazing couple of amazing books for spiritual practice of how to bring, you know, queer and non-binary and other marginalized identities into a more comprehensive and inclusive sense of belonging practice, which I think is extremely needed. And I think regarding tarot, it's also where oracle cards can really know a lot of growth. And for those who may not be familiar, tarot is it's a map of consciousness. It's a symbolic system that typically always has 78 cards. I'm not going to go into details, but even if the pictures and the imagery is a little different, the main concept, the key concept, are the same from one deck to the other. Well, when we talk about oracle cards, each oracle card, it's its own system. So it can be on anything from mushrooms to spaceships, you know. So I think that having this opportunity and seeing some of these oracle decks really be more sometimes abstract or really more inclusive in the representation as as well, can bring a great balance to think outside of these very gendered, sometimes gender essentialist, which is extremely problematic views. But I think it's not so much in tarot that I have experienced. I mean, I've seen a little bit in tarot. And I try to be mindful of that in how I read it for myself and for others. But one thing I do struggle with, because I'm also, as I mentioned, kind of a spiritual entrepreneur, it's seeing women's spirituality being utterly essentially tying everything to having a uterus. And even as— I'll say, even as a cis woman who has a uterus and who's trying to become a mother, I do not tie my own femininity, my whole identity around that. And I think that while it can be part of someone's personal experience— again, you know, your personal experience, personal practice is a thing— but making it, when I see in some circles, as kind of like the basic, the baseline of this is what defines you. I'm like, it's exclusionary to trans women, you know, or maybe possibly non-binary folks who may want to be included in this practice. It's even, you know, towards cis women who may not have uterus, who may be menopause, who may be dealing with infertility, who really may not want to be dealing with that. So making it like the base of everything else, for me, even That does not make me comfortable. And that's where I am trying to be really mindful of creating more inclusive space where it's like, if it's a thing that talks to you, go for it. But I do not feel comfortable seeing that as a baseline.

Yeah, no, I mean, that's so intriguing. That's, um, that I've got like 3 questions in my head. I'm just trying to keep them all sorted. Um, just keeping on that theme, You know, it's really intriguing because when you speak to that, it really resonated for me, not only from aspects of my personal story. You know, I really reflect on the fact that while, quote, my body has surgically aligned to that of a woman and medically, that's where it's at, there's no debate about the biological history. That's not up for argument. But the simple fact is, is that, you know, some really powerful women that I know once said, Cynthia, you're a woman, heart and soul, you're a woman. And it, it really brought that idea of there's so much more to it. And it's why today, when I write, I, I very much I don't like the fact that people, for the sake of expediency of language, because today we seem to want to do everything fast and quick, you know, we will use the vernacular of, you know, uterus owners or something like that, which is really vulgar, and in doing so actually erase the word woman out of the conversation when really all we need to do is include the identities of trans men, non-binary, gender non-conforming folks who may also have that particular identity without erasing women from the conversation. And so that very much struck for me when you were speaking about that.

Yeah, you can have an addition. You know, it's— I mean, I have sometimes used uterus owners as myself, but it's also kind of like, I think we're also searching, you know, for the— and experimenting with language.. So I think there's also that aspect. But like, for example, like if people talk, you know, about the older talk about menstruation, and which is I personally in that case like using menstruators, you know, or you can say women and other menstruators or something. But I believe it also depends on who exactly you're talking to and everybody's lived experience. So I think there's a lot of trial and error, especially as we're lucky that the language is evolving as it is now. So I think we're all kind of also searching for the right way to put it. And then taking into account, you know, other people's feedback. But I think the more inclusive, you know, we can be, even if it may be a little longer, and, you know, in how we say things. And, uh, and also English, it's such a beautiful language for inclusiveness compared— there's progress in like French and everything, but for example, that's an issue that's very French or Roman language because everything is gender from a chair to a bed. So getting the— there's progress now, but it's like it's more of a challenge than English, for example. English is just so freaking beautiful about how you can make it more inclusive.

I don't think I've heard that before, so that's good. That's good. Um, I know we talked a little bit about the work you do in tarot. Um, I wanted to spend a moment just talking about the work you do in video, because certainly, uh, someone who's been on a lot of stages, you know, with almost, you know, 500 organizations to date in over 30 different countries, whether it's a digital stage like this or whether it's an actual raised stage kind of presentation, gender really plays a part when you're, quote, in front of the camera. And I wonder if you have any tips or insights to share based upon your experience of ways in which women can actually take advantage of the platform leverage it without necessarily sexualizing that perspective?

Oh, yeah, no, that's a good question. And yes, I mean, with the democratization, you know, of video and social media, and I would put YouTube in a specific category because often YouTube gets lumped with social media. And for me, this is a misnomer, misaction, because while YouTube is technically a social media, it is also a search engine. It is within the same house as Google. So until Google falls, YouTube is probably safe. And many generations and, you know, countries and groups are used to that. And there is a longevity that you can build on YouTube through video that you do not have anywhere else. And I think that this is why I kind of put it into its own category and why I always do recommend that even if people do not create consistent video yet, that they really take advantage of that because it can really It's a slow game like everything, but it can really make a difference. And as for how women, you know, can take advantage of it, like I said, the democratization of how you can build a platform, you know, outside of certain limitations is really important. And I would say, what, you know, what does it mean to be a woman to you? How do you like to present, you know, kind of go beyond the— if you want, you know, to be really ultra feminine with lots of makeup, or you want to just show, you know, without makeup and more on the tomboyish side, what, what does it mean to you? And like making, I, I understand that, you know, in certain corporate environment there might be certain expectation, but like if it's, I'm going to speak like if it's your own brand, you know, we talk about personal brand. So how would you show up in person? How would you show up to, you know, a conversation and then kind of show up the same way on video? Like, For years I felt like I had to be wearing way more makeup to be palatable on video. So that was one of my own experiences. And I'm like, I love makeup for any gender. It can be absolutely amazing and stunning. And I'm just like, if it's your thing, go for it. It's— that's not a really big skill set or something I have a lot of patience for outside of lipstick. So, but it took me a while to be like, you know what, I wouldn't show up like that in person. So where is the problem with me showing up like And sometimes it's my graphic t-shirts because I'm almost 40 and I still like my graphic t-shirts and my nerdy shirts. And I'm like, that took also an overlay of me. Like, it doesn't make me any less professional in the work I do to show up like that. So I think it's really finding like, what does it mean, you know, for you? How is your self-expression the most authentic for you? And then show up on video as it is because you do not want to have a big gap between if you show up on video really in one way and then people, you know, hop on a Zoom call or have an in-person coffee chat with you and they're like, you're the same person. So it's not always comfortable to show up as is on video. I mean, even now after years of it, sometimes it's like, do I really want to do it? Or I'm not feeling it. And, um, which is also where I'm going to say pre-video ritual, whether you go on a live or pre-record, can be really good. Maybe it's your, you know, your power song, or maybe you take a few deep breaths, or you take a walk for 10 minutes, or, you know, that thing that's going to really help you get in the zone and show up authentically. I know we throw authenticity around a lot these days, but there is, there is also something about it that we often forget, is that authenticity doesn't have to mean showing everything. We may show fully authentically in different ways depending on who we show up with.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, thank you for those tips.

It's—

I know that my biggest challenge is that I've had many people say, Cynthia, you need to get in front of the camera more. And I do not like just sitting here talking to a camera. And not because I actually— when I look at it, look back at watching it, I don't look authentic. I look very mechanical in the presentation versus a much more natural, fluid way, like I'm feeling with you, that I need that level of interaction where I just can't do it on my own. And I'm sure I'm not alone with feeling that just talking to the camera just doesn't do it for me, and I don't feel that I come across authentically in doing that.

Yeah, this is a, this is a common issue I've seen with, uh, with several of my clients, and they are kind of like I would say there are kind of two primary, two or three primary workarounds with it. First of all, you know, continue to really lean into collaboration like now because you can create amazing videos while, you know, doing this type of collaboration. And then it's like maybe trying doing lives even on your own, maybe a better way because I've seen that people often associate the I need to create video with prerecorded video, just you and the camera. Well, it's like live video has a lot of power, a lot of even repurposing potential. So it's not— you're not leveling— it's not also— you're not going to be leveling up to formal pre-recorded video because you started with lives. Both have power. I like doing both. It depends on where you're at, which season you're at. And then another thing that I've seen help some people when they're kind of like, you know, being like, I'm going to be too mechanical or something when they're just stare at the camera. It's really going in with thinking like, what is one or two qualities you do have that you can really step into and really bring into the video? And really think of how you can bring them to life instead of being like, though, I'm going to be mechanical again, or something like really that focus. Maybe your sense of humor, maybe it's your passion about the topic, maybe you're really good at breaking complex stuff down, like pick that one or two things, maybe one for starters, and then be like, okay, I'm really going to lean into that energy. And, and of course, practice helps.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Those are all great tips. Thank you. I'm sure the folks watching the video will appreciate those insights. And obviously, if they want to get more, they can reach out to you, and we will give you a chance to tell us how to get a hold of you at the end here. But I did want to jump back a little bit just to talk about, again, the Inspire Inclusion piece. Because one of the pieces that I come up with, I kind of, you know, did some research and it's like, well, you know, who are these groups? And certainly they're not all identities that I can necessarily associate. You know, the first is really no surprise. It's probably the largest group of women. Where intersectionality came from. It obviously reflects Kimberlé Crenshaw's own personal background. That was women of color, Black women, and, you know, other women, ethnic minority, brown women, and just how much, you know, the intersectional aspects of racism and sexism and other forms of oppression that hits them where, you know, feminism may not actually adequately address those issues for them. Now, it's not my personal lived experience, so I can't really expound upon it. But I'm wondering, do you have any insights from your own lived experiences? I realize you're not a woman of color either.

One thing that was really, really interesting to me, and I'm glad that we go back, that we go now to Feminism 4.0, because a lot of the girl power and everything in the '90s, and that was something I did study a lot when I was doing my PhD in humanities and film study was how, I mean, there's always been an issue of white feminism, but I think that the whole movement of girl power and everything in, and or neo-feminism, as sometimes we called it, of like, oh, we made it or whatever in the '90s, like including a lot of movies in early 2000s, was extremely white-centered and extremely like having this false idea of 'Oh, we made it, we don't really need feminism anymore,' when even in the '90s it was a big show still, to put it lightly. And I think that again with this really diving and leaning into the intersectionality and that Feminism 4.0 helps untangle some of those issues that was also very much shown through Western media.

Yeah, yeah. The, the other group they had talked about in it was one I can relate very directly to, and that was to trans women. And, um, as you may recall during our kind of pre-show discussion, um, you know, I talked about and used the phrase trans plus, and that was just simply because my identity as a transsexual woman is not seen within the vernacular of transgender. And so, um, by the broad definition, it's assumed, but they don't recognize my unique identity. They say, oh, that's an old word, that's a phrase, we don't use it. Oh, that phrase medicalizes all of us. Yet that phrase is the word that describes me, the fact that I required medical and surgical intervention. And so I came across about almost 2 months ago this use of the phrase trans plus to be inclusive of all identities, much like we do with the LGBTQ+. And again, every organization uses a different version of what I affectionately call the rainbow alphabet. And the simple fact is, you know, it's kind of time to stop playing with all the versions of words. And so let's just make these very large inclusive categories where everybody feels there's a space for them to fit in. I think I shared with you the uniqueness of In the Space that for about the last year and a half, I have moved— a year and a half ago, I moved from being a pansexual woman to being a queer woman. That was because the realization that I was much more attracted and desiring an emotional relationship with another woman. But I didn't want to use the word lesbian because some cisgender female who— lesbians may find it offensive that I would use such a word. And yet when I've talked to many, many strong feminists who are also lesbians, it was intriguing to say, why are you letting them win? You know, just own the identity. And so it's only— I think I'm in week 2 of owning.

You were not even there yet when we talked. You were just like, I'm getting there, I'm getting there. So congratulations.

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, so yeah, so to own my lesbian identity within this space, um, unabashedly, um, you know, it's such a unique experience. I guess, I mean, have you had any insights? Because, you know, I believe Given your upbringing and your time through university, you have met other trans women and so forth. Has there been any lessons or takeaway for you that you've seen or experienced from that community?

I've been lucky to meet trans+ individuals of various genders over time. I think this idea of the The societal expectation versus like the personal way you embrace your femininity were really, really elements I have witnessed and learned from them and see like there's no one special way, you know. Some trans women are going or, you know, trans non-binary who are more on the femme side may really like making being a woman or making being femme like their own way. Whether it may align with societal expectations or it may not, but really embracing what it means for me. And I think that's a teaching that I'm grateful for from them.

Yeah. Yeah. My short way of saying that is acceptance without understanding, to just accept them as human beings the way they are. Because as human beings, we're so complex. We're beyond understanding. And to actually think we understand another human being better than we even understand ourselves is quite frankly audacious and impossible. Pretty much. Yeah. Another group they talked about in kind of some of the research, and it was no surprise, it's disappointing. It's always disappointing when you see it, you know, women with disabilities. I mean, I've just recently in public settings wearing hearing aids. I still don't consider myself disability, but I know that it is. It meets, certainly in the British sense, it does meet the requirement, you know, of a disability. But, you know, I know so many amazing people that are seen in that space, you know, as specialists that might be wheelchair users or have other, you know, modes of support. And of course, disabilities are not necessarily all visual, sometimes they're unseen with it. Do you have any kinds of experience that kind of sheds a light on this particular community from your experiences?

I do know a couple of people who are disability activists, and I think that some of the issues is that, you know, from other people, it's going to be, you know, the issue of representation. And then also that does impact, you know, policy because There can be, you know, using them as what people call inspiration porn, you know, where teachers like, oh, you're so brave or anything. It's like what I've heard from them is like, yeah, it's you're making me your inspiration, but you're not doing anything in reality that's going to make my life better. Yeah. So this is you're making yourself feel good about it or about yourself. But in the end, what are you actually doing to make my life better and make me gain access or make me get the support I need and be fully more included into, you know, everyday life or anything.

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, for me, one of the most powerful lessons that I learned was just last year, and it was about the effect on society called the curb effect. And that was the fact that, you know, in many curbs that we have on our sidewalks and walkways, all have these reduced slanted things in order to make it easy. So if you are a wheelchair user or some other mobility, you know, you have this easy way. But the whole idea is the curb effect actually benefits society at large because now all of a sudden, moms with prams, strollers, right? They, they now have this easy way to be able to cross the street. Elderly people who have trouble with curbs, They now have a much more gentle way in order to be able to deal with it. You know, you don't have people that say might be running or jogging and they might hurt an ankle by making the large step down. Now they have these very gentle, you know, sloping entrance. So society, many parts of society are benefiting from this particular exercise. And it was, you know, to me it was like, oh, you know, maybe we need to step back and really not stop doing things, but start, rather than criticize them, start looking at them for, is there a greater benefit within society? And certainly, I mean, I've reflected within my own community and how that's changing things. But, you know, the disabilities, and it's unfortunate, a group I work with, Nexus, which is the, the network of corporate LGBTQ+ networks,, um, here in the UK, and it was intriguing that they had done a study and the least supported as a priority, um, group within kind of the employee resource group or business resource groups is unfortunately the disability community. They are the least supported. Um, so I think that says a lot about kind of our mindset as, um, probably the biggest statement of ableism that we are all guilty of.

And that also does go in, you know, that also makes me think of all the— one thing that we're starting to talk more about, and it's obviously just one part of the equation, is like being talking about, talking about mental health more. At least that's something that— and neurodiversity, because I think that we're making some progress there. And again, probably not enough. And I think that, you know, physical accommodations for, you know, more mobility is also extremely important. And we need to do better because, as you said, and I fully agree, that it does benefit everybody. And for example, that's something that we've been behind a lot more in France, for example, for the accessibility in terms of mobility as being something that We're slowly catching up, I believe, but it was something that, that we were behind. Like, that's something I can say about France is that we were behind. And so, and I think having the conversation and then putting the conversation into action is really, like, important.

Yeah, I mean, it was intriguing from that conversation, you know, there was also the introduction that, you know, one of the groups that is seen as not included is working-class women. And it's intriguing because certainly in the UK we talk about pay gap a lot. You know, there's called the moment of the year where women are working for free the rest of the year happens about November 15th, at least as of last year. But, you know, these whole concepts and it's intriguing because, you know, I was just reading a piece today and it's like working-class women are facing the harsh reality with cost of living increases and everything else that, to use a general phrase, that, you know, they don't have a living wage to actually be able to live. And especially if they have young children or children and so forth. You know, there's just not the economy, the realities of the economy in order to support working women. It wasn't a surprise, unfortunately, but it's still a very sad state because this affects a lot of women because of the large proportion of, of entry-level, you know, jobs that they occupy in so many different industries.

Yeah, and it was also something that we saw with the pandemic of like the insane loss of women workforce because as many like, you know, this entry-level works or, you know, a lot of, and a lot of those really necessary positions that should, you know, be paid better and that so many women left the workforce during the pandemic for a wide range of reasons, especially, you know, childcare. Because once again, it's like, even if we're like, oh yeah, we're going to be more, you know, talk about gender equity and everything, but the onus of child rearing is still considered like, well, that's a women thing. Yeah, well, gee thanks. That's, uh, and regardless of, you know, the dynamic of relationship that women, you know, maybe they're single moms, maybe they are with partner or partners, but it's still like there should be more resources to support working mother, regardless of the special, you know, context that they chose or that they're experiencing.

Absolutely. And, you know, I think it goes beyond just working moms because I think it's all women, whether or not they have children, who are facing the inequities of the pay gap. I mean, in British terms, I know that it's 83 pence to the pound. That, you know, the quote, the pay gap that they're working for. I think it was last I read it was $0.82 US to the American dollar, you know, was the gap that women were facing.

So it gets worse when, you know, for women of color on top of that. So that's just even, even way worse.

Oh, absolutely. And the last group that I'm cognizant of our time, that it's been a great conversation, but the last group just to touch on was, of course, LGBTQ+. Women. We didn't forget the G. We're referring to women here. So, and realize that some women do use the phrase gay to define their identity, and that's perfectly acceptable. But certainly when we talk about programs that focus on women's experiences, we know that really it's the sexual orientation and/or gender identity that, you know, that is that connection to the intersectional trouble that they have. And it's the aspect where really Feminism 4.0 does actually start to connect us all to deal with it. So I did intentionally use the phrase of LGBTQ+, but certainly we do include those women who identify as gay within that statement. I mean, in your own experiences, you've identified that you know, that you two are part of this community as I am. What have you seen in terms of the experience that women encounter by being, you know, LGBTQ+ women?

So in my case, I do identify as queer because I like the— I like how it's, first of all, it's a reclaiming, you know, it's a reclaiming of a word, it's a reclaiming of an expression, and I really do believe in that. And I also identify as bi because that was the term I was introduced to, you know, when I was younger. And I love the color of the bi pride. I'm just like, those are my colors. So, but one of the issues I've seen is like, and this is something within the rainbow community and, you know, in the more heterocentric world, is like, as a bi, as a bi woman, it's kind of like There are times when you cannot win. It's like you're, you know, you're too straight or you're too gay, or, you know, it's kind of like, I mean, I am married to a guy, so it's like I'm in an heteropresenting relationship and I do recognize it can do that. But also then I've had people be like, why are you talking so much about being queer? You're married to a guy. Aren't you straight now? No, my expansive identity is also an important part of, you know, who I am, of also my work. I absolutely love getting to celebrate other rainbow professionals. Those are some of my favorite types of clients to work with, just because I'm like, there's so much beauty and need in supporting each other, you know, or supporting other women professionals. But yeah, it's kind of like, it's like you should be one or the other. Or also like people think, oh, if you're bi, that means you're just, you know, being, are you just like men or women? And it's kind of like, no, I really do love how the definition has expanded of, you know, people from my own gender or from a different gender. And for me, you know, like you were talking about using transsexual for yourself, it's also like, you know, the vocabulary that does work for us. And even if we may not choose that for other people, you know, if it's not their preference, it's still like for our lived experience, it's what does make makes sense. And this is why for me I still use that word rather than pansexual, because historically, and also like I said, the colors really, uh, I'm just like, the colors are my colors, how can I give that up? But it's, I'm also like really lucky, and it's also been a navigation because, you know, we're talking about authenticity a little earlier, like I've not shown up, you know, I've not shown up as witchy or, you know, as queer the same way in different spaces over time. Because either it didn't feel safe to do that, or it was— they didn't feel relevant at that time. But I think the more we know ourselves, the more we're likely to step more fully and talk about our lived experience.

Oh, wonderful. Um, I think we're gonna need to leave it there, but I would leave the last moment to you. How can folks get a hold of you, Natasha, whether they need to do video work, or perhaps they want to explore the tarot experience within their corporate team or organization?

Sure, sure.

How do they find you?

So yeah, because I do say, I mentioned I work a lot with creatives and entrepreneurs, but I'm also available to provide, you know, video training and such for organizations because in the end it's kind of the same stuff anyway that you need to do. So LinkedIn is one of the best ways to get a hold on me as well as my website.

Wonderful, wonderful. Well, thank you again for being here today. I very much appreciate it. And folks, thank you so much for being with us and for this conversation. Let us know in the comments how you found it and anything that you feel that we can be doing better to bring other interesting topics to you occasionally through this medium of video. But otherwise, I am Cynthia Fortlage. I am One Leader with Two Genders' Worth of Experience. And it's been my pleasure having Natasha with us today. Thank you and have a great day. Bye.