Gender Equity Rebels Rachel and Cynthia

Hi everyone, welcome. Uh, today we're going to have another wonderful session of Gender Equity Rebels, and today I have an amazing guest for you. If you remember, these sessions are all about looking at issues that really stand out in the conversation around gender equity. Most of the time they're not conversations that people hear enough about, Certainly for me, those are the conversations that I'm very attracted to because, of course, as you know, that's what I do for a living, is I work in that space quite a bit. But today I would like to introduce you to my guest, Rachel. And Rachel, welcome. Thank you. And I wonder if you could do a bit of an introduction, kind of professionally, but if you wouldn't mind also talk about and introduce kind of the topic of your passion project. We're gonna talk about both, but so everyone can get a sense of who you are and what you're about.

Yeah, so I work in the world of startups and scaleups and all things people, talent, and recruitment. That's, that's the day job. So I've worked as a head of talent for startups and scaleups for a really long time, growing them from very small to pretty, pretty big, um, and, and working with, you know, VC-backed startups, um, advising founders and all things people, talent, and recruitment. So I've got a real kind of interest in, um, creating, um, I guess, you know, environments that people can thrive in from, from all backgrounds, you know, and, and fair and equal recruitment processes. Um, and I now do that independently. So, um, you know, I have now my own portfolio of founders and startups that I work with to do hands-on hiring with, but also fractional head of talent projects as and when required. And throughout my professional journey, I have struggled with a hormonal imbalance, and it took many years to kind of really understand that was what it was and that it is actually PMDD. And so that's— this is the area that I'd love to talk with you and your audience about today, because I think it's it's not as well known as it could be. And there's a lot of awareness still to be raised around it. So PMDD is premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and essentially you can think of it as PMS on steroids. So it affects women, you know, going through their, you know, monthly cycle, and it will get to a certain point in our cycle, and that's usually the luteal phase. So that's the 2 weeks before you you know, your period arrives, where your hormones tend to be a bit out of whack anyway. But this is almost to the highest degree, and it comes in different shapes and sizes in different, you know, levels of severity. But I guess, you know, working with startups for much of my career and working with a head of talent hat on where it's all about, you know, developing inclusive cultures where women and all people from all backgrounds can thrive. This is a major area that can take women out of the workplace. And there's, there's so many other reasons for women to be out of the workplace from the cost of childcare, right, to, you know, just, just general gender pay gap challenges. So I guess part of my mission is helping other women, you know, recognize the signs because there are a lot of women out there that, you know, that don't understand the biology and what might be happening. And ways to cope with it and keep going with it so that you're still able to be successful in your career. You're still able to be a successful person in your social life. And yeah, it doesn't have to be as debilitating. There are things you can do.

Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, some folks may find it odd that someone like me is, you know, doing the interview, but I just wanna remind the viewers that, you know, I spent 2.5 years learning and leading the women's movement in Canada, hence the accent, before I ever learned to fight for LGBTQ+ and trans rights. So for me, very much centering women's issues that you spoke so eloquently about are very important in the work that I do. And it's a bit of a unique superpower that I bring, which is why I talk about one leader with two genders worth of experience. So when you talk about PMDD, you know, a lot of folks may be aware because I've talked about it before that women typically, and just a reminder that women are the largest group of marginalized people on this planet and of course in the workforce. So when we talk about these issues, it's very important to center women in this conversation. We talk about the kind of the, the, the bump where women leave the corporate space in about their 30s-ish and in the 50s. Now I'm in the 50s category now. When did this start occurring for you and when did you become aware of it. If, if you're comfortable, share with us a little bit about that story and help us understand the timeline, why it, why it became such a struggle.

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, on average, I think the stat is that it can take up to 12 years on average for women to be diagnosed with PMDD. And that is insane. And it was kind of the very typical journey for me. So I was in my— gosh, probably mid-20s. I was taking a startup, uh, tech consultancy from 60 to 600 people. It was a crazy ride professionally. My career was taking off. I was learning loads. I was here, there, and everywhere. Um, and it, it was really a pivotal moment in my career, and I still think of it as such. At the same time, I was having symptoms such as, um, anxiety. I was feeling low. I had this feeling of like impending doom, like something terrible was going to happen. I had awful brain fog. I remember being in meetings with my manager trying to get my words out, and I just, I just couldn't. And I was like, what? What is going on? This feels really odd. And it was almost a little bit embarrassing talking to this, you know, very nice white middle-aged man and feeling really out of sorts and not actually knowing what was going on. So it was that point that I tried to start and track what I was feeling and when. And between that, I was going back and forth from the doctor, seeing my GP almost in tears. I had one male GP just say to me, you know, well, what do you want me to do? I just don't know. Like, I just don't know. I just— I'm really struggling. So, you know, we looked down the road of SSRIs, antidepressants, and at the time I think potentially, you know, 10 years ago or so, there was maybe more of a stigma around that. So that felt like a really big decision. Is this something that I want to go on this daily medication? What does that mean for me? Um, and I also started looking at kind of alternative, uh, more holistic routes. So I met with a naturopath who was amazing, and it started— it started to— something started to click. I would feel brilliant 2 weeks of every month. I was productive, I was on it, happy, my usual self. And then the second half of every month, or, you know, or the following 2 weeks, it was almost like a curtain was coming, a dark curtain was coming down in front of me. And I, you know, I remember once being on the tube on the way into work and I just felt it just come over me. And that was it for the next 2 weeks, just this feeling of low resilience, very thin-skinned, very emotional, couldn't get my thoughts out. I was like I was walking through treacle a lot of the time. So I started researching into it, talking to my naturopath about it, and it all pointed towards PMDD. And the way I was able to get to that point was because it was only for half of every month that I was feeling like this, and it's the luteal phase. So there are kind of, you know, 4 phases in a woman's cycle. You know, the first day you could say is, you know, the menstrual cycle. That's when your period arrives and you've got a lot of physical discomforts as well as a lot of tiredness. You know, it's a good time to rest. And then from there you go into your follicular phase where you start to pick up a bit, you know, hormones start to pick up again and start to get back to normal self, a little bit tired, but you're getting there. Then you go through the ovulatory phase and then before that, and that's kind of again a really good period where you feel pretty good. And then the luteal phase hits and that's 2 weeks of every cycle and that's the 2 weeks before your period arrives. And it was always in those 2 weeks that I was just feeling horrendous. And so low and anxious, all the symptoms that I described. So that's really what kind of made it click for me and made me go to the doctor and say, look, I think there's a, there's a pattern here. And it took my own research, my own reading to really be able to go to the GP and say, I think it's this. And for them to, to agree. So that real struggle in terms of finding out what it was and then the relief of like being able to name something, I think a lot of people have gone through when you can actually name you know, a cause of a symptom brings a lot of comfort and it can make you kind of feel like, right, okay, so what do I need to do? How can I up my supplements? You know, is there any medication that will help? What lifestyle changes do I perhaps need to make? You know, this is a condition and now I know what it is. I can try and I can try and manage it. But it really nearly made me fall out of the workplace. It nearly— I nearly kind of almost signed myself out of work from this really high-powered job, which has set me up massively in my career to where I am today. You know, I could have fallen out of that and been somewhere quite different today. And, and now, you know, I'm in my late 30s and there are other, you know, symptoms that are coming into play like the perimenopause. And I think it's only through the last few years where I really appreciated the journey through PMDD that I still manage on a monthly basis. So now kind of getting a little bit older, getting into my late 30s and thinking, okay, here comes the next thing. And then, and then kind of having that appreciation of, oh my God, here's another thing, here's another hormonal condition that affects so many women, but we're still not talking about it. And I'll talk to anyone that will listen about it, and it can feel a little bit awkward, you know, if you're speaking to your male colleagues around, or male managers, you know, that I've had to mention it to before I work for myself, say, look, just to make you aware, there's half of every month where I'm not myself, where I do struggle a little bit, and I just need a little bit of grace. Um, and it's taken a while to get the confidence to to say that, to not feel that stigma behind what I do, to have to manage it. And so it's just really driven me over these last, I think, probably last few years, year in particular, where I've tried to really, you know, the entrepreneurial side of me has been like, right, what can I do? Because there's women out there struggling and they don't realize what it is, or they do realize and they— and it's hard. And where can they go to talk about that? And then you've got kind of perimenopausal and menopausal women as well who still feeling the effects of hormones. It's hormones at the end of the day. They play such a massive role in our lives. Oh, yeah. And we just don't talk about it. Mental.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, it's— yeah, I wasn't laughing at what you were saying. I was thinking back to some of our pre-conversation we had. And, you know, there's many that have are surprised by the fact that, you know, that I talk about menopause and so forth because I'm in that age group. My blood work has now been confirmed by the doctor that for a woman of my age, that I am— my blood levels are at a post-menopausal— well, so they're normal for my age, for a woman of my age. And a lot of people go, Really? And that was because my hormonal levels were adjusted due to concern of implications of heart-related issues. And so the dosage was layered after, quote, the higher dose I incurred, quote, starting my transition. And so they kind of took it down. And so I always say to people, my body is nothing but purely hormonal. Like, I have nothing but estrogen in my body. There is nothing else going on. And whatever happens to that. So you may be familiar with— there's been lots of supply issues with estrogen, various estrogen therapies and everything else. And so a lot of women are experiencing because you have the, the efficacy of one type of product you're using and they switch you to a backup and then your body has to adjust to the whole different product. So yeah, so people find it odd. So I completely get what you're talking about at this part of my life. And we talked about— I won't recoup what I said when we talked about the 4 stages of the menstrual cycle. While I do not menstruate, obviously, I do have 4 very distinct cycles that I define by the behavior that I find that I encounter, which you understood during that. And thankfully, I can say that I have not I've had the privilege of not having to experience this. But given all your experience with PMDD and you still manage it on a monthly basis, if there's a viewer out there— and just to clarify that when we say women in this conversation, that would include potentially trans men and non-binary individuals who were assigned female at birth who may actually be encountering this.

Yes, completely.

So given what you've learned, what kind of guidance can you give them to kind of look at their own situation and kind of what's the go forward that may make their journey not 12 years long?

Yeah, I think having like having an awareness of your biology is really key and knowing the different, the different phases in a cycle so that you're able to track your symptoms against what's going on in your body at that time. I think that's, that's a real key indicator. And that's something that a GP would probably tell you to go and do potentially before being confident to act on it, particularly as a whole other issue is the fact that GPs and doctors need more training in PMDD and, and, you know, hormonal imbalances in general. So I'd say definitely do that. And then just check out your lifestyle, see if there's anyone that you can speak to just in terms of like, are there any, you know, supplements that might help you? There are so many that are recommended for severe PMS or PMDD that might be useful for you, that might work for you, might not. You know, looking at things like blood sugar as well, you know, how you're eating. There are times where, you know, it's good not to spike your blood sugar by having like a big bowl of rice or pasta because then comes the sugar crash and, you know, being able to eat with lots of greens. And there's an amazing book called— I think it's In Her Flow by Lisa Vitae. And she talks about in each phase of your cycle what your preference is. Are you more sociable or are you not? Do you tend to be more retrospective in certain phases or more forward thinking? And it really does make sense once you read it. You're like, oh yeah, no, I do like to think about the future at that point. Or no, I do like to reflect on the past at this point in my cycle. And she also recommends, you know, foods to eat to complement your hormones. So yeah, it's— I think it's about taking a holistic approach as well as getting your head into books, reading as much as you can to, to really explore. And there's so many apps out there now where you can track your symptoms, which, yeah, which previously, you know, 10 years ago weren't around for me. So it has got easier in some respects. But I think where it hasn't become easier is in the workplace. Like, you know, we're just not talking about it. And I'm very guilty of going into the office and being like, hey, everything's fine when everyone asks me, yeah, I had a great weekend. And no, it didn't. And no, I'm not okay. And it's exhausting to kind of put on this front. And there are some topics in the workplace where those walls have been broken down, where you can say, you know what, I'm not okay, I am struggling, and that, you know, Mental Health Awareness Week, for example, at the moment. And, you know, it's okay not to be okay. And I think we're becoming more open with that. And I'd like to think so in the startup world in particular. So why not relate it back to, well, actually it's because I'm about to come onto my period and I feel awful, or I've just come into my luteal phase and I can feel it right now. And using the, using the language, using the terminology, not being afraid to do so, to talk about what women go through every month, but we just don't talk about it. But yeah, having a voice around it, I think, is just amazing.

Are there other issues that really stand out for you related specifically to the workplace? So kind of combining your professional experience with your personal, you talked about, you know, having to learn the conversations, especially with male allies and bosses. I can I'm working on the assumption they were supportive or you helped teach them how to be supportive of you. I guess what other issues have you kind of come across that organizations— and I'm thinking, you know, when I talk about period poverty with organizations, you know, we talk about the idea of putting in, you know, menstruation products in all bathrooms, right?

Absolutely.

Not making a distinction. To deal with it. And it kind of starts to remove some of that stigma when it just becomes a normal part of what we all do. So do you have other insights from a workplace perspective related to that?

Yeah, I think so. And I think, you know, it's not just a challenge that can be spoken about amongst women or those experiencing it, because the key thing is about getting, you know, everyone, even those that don't experience the symptoms, to understand it and to use the same type frame of terminology because that, like you say, that breaks down any stigma around it or any barriers. So I think a key thing is something that I'm really keen to do and that I'm working on in the background in partnership with another organization as well as individually, is being able to go into organizations and talk to everyone, both, you know, all people in an organization to say, here's a little biology lesson. This is what we're all going through. Well, a lot of us are going through and You know, as, as an employer, how can you make this a little bit more day-to-day conversation? As a manager, how can you better retain the women in your team or, you know, the people on your team that are experiencing this? Because it's a risk that you, that you won't. And then empowering those that are going through it to say, do you know what, this time of the month, I know there's a social next week, but it's the last thing I feel like doing and I'm not going to go and because it will deplete me and having the strength to kind of say, this time, you know, within this week I'm not doing that, but I can, you know, I'm going to be focusing on this and I'm kind of changing my schedule, adapting my schedule to, to my cycle. And there's a lot of empowerment in that because you're suddenly taking the reins and you're not further depleting yourself by putting your energy into something where your body is, is, is, you know, physically and, and mentally in a place where it would really struggle to do something.

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, just for the sake of clarity for those watching, you know, when Rachel says that, you know, a lot of your force, we're talking upwards of 54%. I mean, the statistics are 52 to 54% of your workforce are experiencing this. So, um, you know, we're past the tipping point, you know. Um, we have crossed the chasm, uh, long ago, right? So absolutely. Uh, are there aspects from a healthcare perspective that you've learned that, you know, others who may be experiencing or now questioning, is it this How did they shorten the time to diagnosis and perhaps treatment on a go-forward basis, given everything that you've learned?

Yeah, I think again, it goes back down to tracking against, against your cycle. Like, it is such a superpower, but it's tricky, right? Because not everyone's regular. So it is great that now there are apps out there where you can kind of track and know when you should be in a certain phase and a little notification comes up and tells you and recommends what you should be doing, you know, um, don't go to that HIIT class, go to yoga instead, you know, you need to rest at this time or whatever. Um, so yeah, really, really just trying to, trying to track. And don't, don't give up. Like, go back to your GP or go back to your doctor or whoever you talk to about it as many times as you like, as you need. And don't feel ridiculous. Um, because I think that probably stopped me in a way. I was kind of thinking, God, well, I don't really know what I'm gonna say. I just don't feel myself. And you know when it's not tangible and you just can't quite— you can't even articulate it because you're in the depths of brain fog. Um, yeah, don't, don't— like, crack on, keep going with it. Um, because you're— yes, a lot of people need help at the doctors at the moment, but you're not taking up a valuable spot from someone else. Like, this is important. It's your mental health. It really relates back to your mental health. And there's a huge proportion of people that suffer with PMDD— luckily not myself— that experience suicidal thoughts. And it can be extremely serious. And being able to get on top of it as soon as you can is so important. Yeah.

Is there anything like when you talk about that and I've certainly— in my own journey and experience, been there and had to deal with that. Is there any kind of advice or guidance that you would give partners, friends of those that are suffering and going through this, how they can better support their partner, their friend?

That is such an excellent question, actually. And I recently had a coffee with someone that I've been working with on and off, and his partner experiences PMDD or symptoms as such, and he's got to realize like, oh, okay, she's, you know, questioning everything about our relationship. But hang on a minute, where are we? Okay. Which she's there in the month. And, you know, it's not that the whole, you know, our relationship's crumbling or whatever. So it does help. I used to be able to— I used to log in my partner's calendar when the different symptoms were and then send him a link books on about it and, and then how to support, you know, there are things that you can look up in terms of how to support your partner in their luteal phase or whatever. Um, and I think that's really helpful because it's just like you would at work, which is what I'm trying to encourage. You know, you would say to your manager, I'm in this place right now, um, so give me some grace, or I'm in my really productive phase, chuck stuff at me because I know in 2 weeks' time I'm going to be a little bit— well, I'm probably going to be very unproductive. Yeah, but that's okay, do you know what I mean? So just do that, do that at home as well, do that with friends and your family. Um, and, and often it's a little bit obvious, you know, if I'm catching up with family or seeing my mom, she'll know if I'm a little bit low and she'll check in. Um, but that's through me having been quite open about my whole journey with it, essentially. Um, but yes, there, there are things that you can read up on if you are on the other side of it and, and you need to support someone. It does help.

Great. When you talk about work and I mean, is there a great example of how that was handled and how it adapted? And clearly I'm going to ask you the opposite. Is there an example of how it didn't go and what did you kind of learn from that moment?

Yeah, I do. You know what I'd say? It's only my last role, which was with an early-stage venture capital firm, which was brilliant. It was only to be honest, it was only then that I felt I had the confidence to say, this is, this is, this is how I work. And I'm sitting down with my manager, we're both being really open around like, uh, you know, this is who I am, I'm also a mom, I'm also this. And, uh, and it, you know, it was a white man and, and it was, but it was a really, you know, it was a very, someone that was very open to the conversation, very understanding, wanting to get, uh, and wanting to understand essentially. Um, you know, not, not necessarily get into all the details, but someone that I knew at the end of that conversation, if I'd say, look, I know I'm supposed to be in the office today, but I'm not, I'm just not myself. That's all I needed to say.

Okay.

And that was nice. You know, it gets to a point where you can just be like, you know, give it a little signal and people know and you don't feel like you're having to justify yourself all the time, which again is another thing that I think helps because you don't want to feel the spiral of guilt or inadequacy around it. Like it is what it is. And you're doing what you need to do to get through it and to, um, to do the best you can. That's all you can do. Um, I guess I don't have like a, a terrible example because I didn't have the confidence to talk about it.

Okay.

Previous roles. And I think that's where a lot of people are with this. Um, and that's why it's not talked about enough because there aren't enough of us kind of saying, putting the hat on, being like, I'm not okay, this is what I'm going through. Um, partly because a lot of the time we don't know, we're just still trying to work out ourselves. So it's really hard to go to your manager and be like, um, something's up, I'm not really sure what.

Right, okay.

Um, but I think, I think that's really sad at the same time that there are probably, you know, uh, I knew that I was going through it in some organizations I was with and I wasn't as open about it as I could have been.

Okay.

Um, and that's not necessarily a reflection on the organization, it was more reflection potentially on, on me, uh, or, or how I was feeling at the time in terms of acceptance of it and knowing what I needed to do to help myself at that time, but also having the confidence. Like, I did a maternity cover as soon as I went back to work after having my baby. I did a maternity cover and it was with a lovely organization, but I didn't tell them. But part of me was like, I've just come back to work after having a baby. I've got so much to prove already. I can't then very well go and say, oh, by the way, I'm a new mom. So I'm probably going to get called into nursery, you know, once a week because my little one's got a fever. Oh, and by the way, I've got PMDD. So 2 weeks of every month I'm not myself. So there's a lot, there's a lot there to unpick, right? And I just hope it helps others kind of feel like they're not alone. Like, it's okay that you haven't talked about it yet, but I've been there and I know the benefits of talking about it. So if there's one thing you can take from this is, you know, find that courage to talk about it more and be honest with others, because as soon as you can take control of it and of your schedule around it, you're empowered and you're taking a really positive step forward to feeling better.

Well, fabulous. Fabulous. And I love the examples that you just gave. They clearly demonstrate, you know, what we kind of hear about And you talked about kind of post-pregnancy, but they are the issues that are talked about within pregnancy discussions. Brilliant organizations like Pregnant Then Screwed talk about a lot of these things quite a bit. And then also kind of that parental penalty that a lot of women talk about. And you just demonstrated that beautifully. So thank you for that. Sticking with just the work piece for a moment. But is there anything, given your, your global HR experience, from kind of a policy perspective that organizations maybe overlook that should require that second bit of attention to ensure they're properly addressing women's needs? Because we know from a healthcare perspective, women's unique needs are not researched clearly enough. I mean, I think when I talk about menopause, I've talked to a number of doctors and consultants and so forth, and they, they get less than a day of education on menopause. That 54%, like, you know, it's just, it's crazy. So women's issues clearly aren't getting that attention. So in a workplace, what's not getting the attention from a policy perspective?

Yeah, that's a really good spot, actually. I think it's just hormonal health is, is just a massive gap, actually. And, you know, if I think about, you know, I've seen the evolution of family-friendly policies over the years from paternity leave to then, you know, incorporating more paternity to then shared parental leave. This has kind of been the evolution, which I think is, you know, which is really great. They're not just, you know, parental leave, but supporting leave for, you know, infertility and IVF treatments. You know, all of that's been creeping in over the last few years, which I think is brilliant. And I've definitely, you know, I've seen that evolution, but there's still that gap in terms of hormonal health when it comes to PMS, perimenopause, and menopause. There's been some articles over the last few years around, you know, being able to have, you know, paid time off or sick leave for period pains. I think that's definitely more accepted now. It's not necessarily written down, but in some organizations, but it is in others, which is even better. Yeah. So I think it's building on that essentially. Good. Okay. Incorporating that with a mental health policy, which again, over the years these have evolved as well. There's actually mental health policies in most organizations that I work with now, which is fantastic. And again, is there the awareness that actually hormones can be a factor of needing mental health support? No. So it's that it's linking it back to something basically ensures that we operate as people.

Oh, completely. And you may recall, like, during the conversation, the pre-conversation we had, and for the viewers, it was, you know, my experience was I did not know what social anxiety was until I was on estrogen therapy. And in about 6 months on therapy, and it just hit me, um, to the point that I did require mental health support, um, through that period to learn to deal with it because it was so powerful. Um, and it wasn't just the body, it was was something that never existed, and I can only attribute it to estrogen. So the power of hormones, that is definitely one thing that estrogen, estrogen gives us is it definitely heightens anxieties that kick in there. So when you talked about through— I mean, you know, you mentioned Mental Health Week and so forth, these little— it's becoming less taboo for a lot of people to talk about this. You know, you talked about the doctor wanting to prescribe you know, particular, you know, products. They did for me as well, um, definitely as I was in my corporate career and I was experiencing levels of work-related anxiety. Um, and it's like, no, I, I want to know. I think like you, I said, no, I want to learn better strategies and more natural strategies for dealing with it. Um, so we're seeing a lot of that lose its taboo and become normal. Um, and certainly you know, in conversations when I talk about period poverty or we talk about menopause and menstruation, you said some organizations are even having policies, but I don't recall seeing a PMDD Awareness Day or Awareness Week going on. Did I miss it, or is there something happening in order to establish a point in time where we raise the awareness to what so many women are going through.

Yeah. So, yes, it was April. April was PMDD Awareness Month. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, just like International Women's Day and Mental Health Awareness Week, there is a period of time that is dedicated to raising awareness around this. But so many people just still aren't aware. And it's great to have like these days and these weeks, these months. But ultimately it's a, it's a continual conversation and condition. Um, so, so yes, there is a time. Um, and I just hope having more conversations like this make it feel less taboo and a bit more, a bit more talked about, just as we've seen, you know, neurodiversity become less stigmatized, ADHD. And that's brilliant, like, that the— how that condition has evolved into something that, you know, uh, people feel able to talk about in job interviews, you know, in terms of their neurodiversity and their needs around that and their preferred ways of working. That's brilliant. That's all information that's going to help them thrive in in the workplace. It's just now adding, adding this lens to it and into the mix.

Great. Great. Are there any aspects of the conversation around PMDD or your professional work we haven't touched on that you would like to— before I kind of ask you to tell people where to find you, is there information we haven't talked about that you would really like to make sure it gets out there so that people can raise their their awareness, at least, you know, from this conversation forward?

Yeah, well, I mean, there are just a ton of— there are a ton of websites out there, which is fantastic. So just Google it, you know, PMDD symptoms. And there are organizations that can be of help. And there are particular authors around it as well that I mentioned and books that can help you kind of get into your flow a little bit more. So I'd say, yeah, definitely check all of that out and Uh, and, and, you know, if, if you have access to it, you know, I think therapy is a gift. It's certainly been a gift in my life, and I wish everyone had access to it. The same with coaching in, in the workplace as well. If you've got any of those tools available to you through your workplace, you know, it's a benefit, use it. But mainly, you know, um, therapy from like a, you know, a, a life perspective is very helpful in terms of being able to navigate these periods of anxiety and depression and all the other symptoms that come with But also coaching in terms and in terms of confidence for, for women and people that are experiencing these symptoms is really important too, because you can— you wouldn't be blamed for kind of going into your shell a little bit and letting certain opportunities pass you by. So if you've got that, if you've got that available to you, take hold of as much of it as you can, basically, because it's all going to help.

Yeah. Now, a couple of times you've mentioned, you know, apps and so forth to track. I know that I was using Flow Tracker. Yeah, FLO Tracker. And now Apple, of course, has kind of picked up on, oh, this is important. So they actually have it in the Apple Health app. And so I actually have it and it pops up. But they've also added the mental health component. So how are you feeling? Why are you feeling So I have it prompt me every day at times of the day. So I'm really kind of getting a sense, how does my mood change through a day? But I also have found, for instance, that what made me go back to it was I started after 8 years, I started having cramping in the lower abdominal region and it was like, I haven't had this since I started estrogen. Where my body was adjusting and it was quite a painful experience. I shared with you I was bedridden for 2 days in my first experience until it's like, welcome to womanhood and now you have to figure out how to do it. It's like I couldn't do my job for 2 days because I couldn't get out of bed. So that's come back. So that's why I've started to track it. Do you have a favorite app?

Yes, I— yeah, Flo is a good one. I also use— isn't it funny? You look at every day, my flow. And that's by Flow Living, and that relates to the book I mentioned as well. Yeah, that's a good one. There's one called Me and PMDD as well. Yeah, all about symptoms. But even if you just prefer to write things down, like any, any way of you just kind of understanding where you're at and what's going on, even if it's in a, in a, in a diary, a Filofax, whatever you use, you know, go for it. Stone tablet.

So how do people find you, Rachel? How do they connect? How do they engage with you on all of these great things that you do both professionally and passionately? Please let everyone know.

Yeah. So I guess the best way to reach me right now is probably LinkedIn. So Rachel Gruel. My maiden name was Harvey. So that's on there as well. Perhaps we can share a link to it. So that's the best way to find me. Message me in there, request with a message. To connect. And yeah, I love— I could talk about this for days. So yeah, I'd love to hear from anyone that's found this useful or has even more tips that I, you know, can continue to share with my network as well. So we can kind of, yeah, help each other.

Absolutely. Well, I think it's the universe talking because of course we connected originally in April.

Exactly.

So it's like, oh, this was meant to be. So, you know, Well, thank you so much, Rachel, for making the time today and being on the Gender Equity Rebel program. You're my third guest, so it's like, okay, I guess this is becoming a thing. And, but thank you so much. I, I can't tell you how much it means to have such a personal conversation about something that impacts so many and that you felt comfortable coming on and sharing that with me and with, um, our audience today. So thank you, uh, on behalf of it, I really appreciate it.

Oh no, thank you. It's, it's been wonderful and it's, yeah, such a gift to have connected with you. So thank you.