If Not Now, When? Clarity, Courage & Simple Systems

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Holding It Both Ways with me, your host Cynthia Fortlage, she/her pronouns. This is a podcast for leaders who are holding the paradox of humanity and strategy. And what we mean by that is where we take a look of navigating the in-between where inclusion, identity, and impact meet. But through human stories and lived experiences, each episode really reflects on the insights to help you lead with greater depth, courage, and care. And today is no different. We have an absolutely fabulous guest for you. Jean, are you with me?

Jean, yes.

Jean, hi. Wonderful. Welcome to the show. Thank you.

So my name is Jeanne Amelour and it's a pleasure to be here, Cynthia Fortlage.

Oh, well, thank you so much. I'm going to in a moment get you to introduce yourself properly so everybody knows about what you're about, what you do. And I really want to thank you so much for taking it because obviously our audience doesn't know, but you are the first guest that I've connected with through the Matchmaker.fm platform. So I wanted to give them a shout out. For that process, that that's what connected us because we weren't otherwise in each other's circles normally.

So yes, yeet a matchmaker.

Yeah, wonderful. Well, please tell the audience who you are, what you're about, and then we'll dive into talking about this absolutely fascinating story that we've got lined up for them.

Fantastic. Okay, so I'm Jeanna Malore. I am a multi-seven-figure coach for coaches and consultants. And of course, I wasn't always that. I'm also a mom of two teenage girls, and I have a very checkered past in a good way of doing lots of different things and living in different countries. And, um, and I'm passionate about helping— I just got goosebumps— my passion is really helping people to thrive. That's it.

Love it.

Yeah, yeah.

Now, I know when we talked and we were really talking about kind of the story, what really struck me was this place of difficulty that you came from and then kind of almost that mindset switch to creating the success and then the impact through the work that you were already doing. But there was a fundamental shift that happened for you.

For sure.

Can you kind of fill that in for our audience a bit?

Yes. Now, the thing is, you know, I'm always puzzled when people say they were living their lives and there's one moment and, you know, there was a, you know, fireworks or a volcano and everything changed. I never, like, life is up, down, up, down, and things are happening and there's different revelations or synchronicities. And I always thought, wow, there's one moment, one, really? Okay, I guess I'm just odd. But there was, there was one of other moments, but one of the moments that was really probably in my older years, because I was 54 when this happened, which was 6 years ago, I had already been coaching for 8 years. I had already been through a lot of process and a lot of stuff, and I'd been, you know, fairly successful offline, ups and downs. I ended up finding myself somewhere in the Midwest. You know, you're not in Kansas anymore, but yet you are. Yeah, you're not in New York anymore. And, you know, I was doing my normal thing, you know, the networking and the meeting people, because that just has to work, right? You know, sometimes things don't work no matter how no matter how much you do it, because you're just like a battering ram, you know, at some point, you know, it's just not working. So I woke up one morning and I'd been trying everything. I thought, okay, this isn't working. And I'm 54, I'm in deep debt. I have no assets. I mean, I had nothing. I had no nothing. You know, people usually have something and only debt. And I just thought, oh my gosh, I just woke up and I was really anxious. And, you know, I had, you know, low-level depression, but I was there for my children. But it's like, you know, Lives of quiet desperation. I had a life of quiet desperation. I was like, not quiet, kicking and screaming desperation. But I was like, what do I do? And I woke up and I remember I woke up and a voice said, if not now, when? Oh, oh wow. Wait a minute. Oh, that's right. I'm 54. You know, we're just living our lives and every day. And I thought, wait, let's just get real here, Jeanne. You're 54. You're going to be 55, 56, 57, 60, 65. Are you going to gain any more energy when you're already not feeling energetic about your life and you're sort of just— I thought, oh wow, I got to do something big. Now I had been sort of afraid to get online because I thought, oh, the whole ads and funnels. And I thought, okay, I just gotta do this. Okay, gulp. So you know when you're there and there's a massive mountain to climb and you're like, okay, here I am and this is going to be hard. So I found any old program any coaching program I could find that was at least $10K because I know about if you're gonna pay a certain amount, you better pay a certain amount or everybody else, there's not gonna be achievers. And I thought, I'm just gonna get minimum. I found a $10K program, plunked it on 3 different credit cards. So more risk. And I thought, I have to do something big. And I always bet on myself no matter what, what condition I'm in. I am not that person that goes, oh, but I'm so broke. I can't do that. No, I'm broke and there's a reason I gotta fix it. It is my mindset, which is very different from most people. Most people get into this victim, oh, but it's not going well. It's just gonna get worse and worse. So I got into this program. It wasn't great. And they were supposed to teach me ads. And I realized right away, hmm, these are not gonna work for me. This is gonna be another, like, I could just see like more debt, throwing money down a drain, not working. I could see that other people, it wasn't working. I thought, this is, this is not gonna work. What do I do? So I asked the people that were in the coaching program, what do I do? Because they said, oh yeah, that won't work for you. I said, yet I paid you $10K for you to show me that. And they said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you need to do organic. And I didn't know what that was then. I didn't know what organic marketing was. So I said, what, like carrots? Because I try to maintain a sense of humor. I said, what, carrots? They said, no, Jeanne, not like carrots. I said, what is it? They said, you can get clients online with no ads at all. I said, no, really? I didn't know that.

Okay.

Yeah. And they said, you know, it's through creating conversations and content. I thought, really? I'm going to do this and I'm going to be the best because I have no choice. So I got so good at this. Thousands of conversations, figuring out people's pain points. And I realized that coaches and consultants are nowhere and they're all in deep pain. They can't get clients. So that became my market. And I started showing people how to get clients, 'cause I started proving I could do it for myself. And I got to $1 million in 17 months. Wow. From stepping online at 92% profit.

Wow.

And that was 5 months before COVID started. So I was positioned to help people to be online.

Yeah.

So very providential. So that was a God moment that got me on there to get there. Because if I had not done that, I would've been in way deeper debt. And then I would've been just hanging around in COVID thinking, what do I do?

Yeah. So if not now, when?

Yes. If not now, when? Very interesting question to ask ourselves at all times.

Yeah. I mean, it really makes me wonder, you know, when we kind of reflect on that, your story is not that unusual from the work that I did nationally with Women's March, the feminist organization. I was representing, leading the organization, I was representing all women's challenges. And what you talked about from where you came is a story I hear so often, especially for women. But I know that you don't just exclusively help women, you help everyone to be able to enjoy this.

Exactly.

What was there like a focus? Was there at some point you went, oh, I got to help other women? And it's like, well, no, no, I got to help everybody. Because you actually found that you were able to think kind of bigger in that? Was there a moment or was it just obvious from the beginning?

Actually, at the beginning I was coaching women. I was like, I'm gonna just coach women. But then a lot of men wanted to work with me and I thought, well, I'm not gonna not coach men. I needed the clients. And I thought, what difference does it make whether I help a human being or not? It makes no difference at all whether it's a human being or not. So I just thought, oh, women are gonna love working with me. And actually men and women love working with me. So that's my niche. That was just natural. That was just a natural thing. Why would I not coach men? You know, why not? So, um, no, that happened before. And then I realized naturally, so no, that I'd already been positioned just to help people, you know, to me it's helping people.

Perfect. Yeah. I mean, and I totally relate and I must say it took me a little longer because it took me a few years to wake up to the work I was doing in my advocacy practice was very much focused on women. And it's really only been the last 3 years where I've started to challenge organizations of what are they doing to support the men that work for them as well. So I completely hear you in terms of, you know, that kind of shift.

Right. And we're all connected. I mean, you're helping, you know, the woman who is helping her family or the man who's helping her family or they're helping their kids or their moms or we're all connected. And I think that, that that's important, that it doesn't really matter what gender they are, you know, really. Yeah.

No, that's great. I'm wondering if through that, are there specific lessons that stand out for you that are high points that really you find are so common, so repetitive? Like, if someone's sitting there listening to you and they're going, yeah, I've got that too, um, you know, I'm there. Are there things that really stand out that somebody goes, I gotta work with her because I'm there too?

Yes. And this is the thing, it wasn't immediate. I don't give up. And when I, I'm the, when I realized that this was, this was the answer, because then when, if I have the answer, then I'm a dog with a bone.

Yeah.

It's when we're not sure of the pathway that we're sort of like, is this the right way? And we're, we're putting work in and wondering, am I putting all this work in for, and, and that's a bad, that's an icky feeling for any business person. Like, okay, we're doing I'm not sure it's gonna work. So you're doing it, but ah, you're waiting for the evidence. I knew this was the way. It was eureka moment.

I'm all in.

I'm all in. So you have to be all in and just go for it when you know it's the pathway. Now, the good thing is if people work with us is we know this works and they see that confidence, they see the results and they say they're relieved to finally have something simple to just grab ahold of and go for it. And that is part of the problem is, this sort of uncertainty of, is this the right thing? Is this gonna work? I don't know. I'll try it, but ah, no, it's not gonna work. So I'll try it a little bit. And you gotta put your, you know, what do they say? Pedal to the metal, metal to the pedal. I can't remember which way that is. Okay. The other thing is it wasn't overnight. I spoke to 900 people before I got my first client.

Okay.

900 conversations in Facebook Messenger. I started on Facebook.

Wow.

And then 18 sales calls figuring out, okay. And I did not go, oh, this isn't working. I thought, okay, this will work. I'm getting some information every time I speak with somebody. I have no choice. This is the only way I'm gonna build my business because offline wasn't working. Ads are not gonna work. I'm not gonna get a job. You gotta make this work, Shawn. And I did.

Yep.

Okay. And I figured it out because I didn't give up. Now here's an interesting point.

Hmm.

Many people can start stuff. It's easy to start stuff, easy to start a new relationship. It's fun, easy to start anything. It's kind of fun for a week or two. The people that are successful are the finishers. Those are the successful people, not the amateurs that just start something and they think it's gonna be like fairy dust falling on their head. And then you have to commit and you have to be all in and you have to be a finisher because even if you run a race and you finish last, at least you finished instead of the people that gave up halfway and said, I'm going home. Okay. You at least finished. That's already something you learned a lot. And then you go, okay, the next race. So there's several things. Don't give up. Stop wanting things to be instantaneous. Be in it for the long run. Find somebody to work with that has evidence that it works still. Do everything you can. Don't be an amateur. Do not be weak. Do not be a victim. Do not be afraid. Now, Steve Jobs said this to people many times and he got people to produce seemingly impossible results. You know what he said to them? They go, oh, that's impossible, Steve. And he'd say, don't be afraid. You can do this. And he'd say, don't be afraid. You can do this. And they did. They did. People around Steve Jobs produced things in record time because he had something called Steve Jobs' reality distortion field.

Okay.

Do you know about that?

Well, I know about Steve Jobs being in the tech sector. I'm not sure I know about the distortion field though.

Because he would just basically get people on board with his vision that most people would think is impossible.

Yeah.

And they go, that's impossible. And he'd say, don't be afraid, you can do this. And they would. So my message is— I'm gonna post it and I have it right here— don't be afraid, you can do it. Okay, don't be afraid. We're all so afraid of so many things, and if we could just neutralize our emotions, we can do anything because All that's standing in our way is our emotions. And I managed to neutralize all my fear and my depression and everything and just say, our lives depend on this and I will make this work. Was it fun? No. For 8 weeks I'm like, is this gonna work? And I've spent all this money. Okay, just, I was working like a maniac and it wasn't fun. It was scary as heck.

Okay.

But you know, Eleanor Roosevelt said, do something that scares you every day Yeah, right. She produced a lot of stuff, Eleanor Roosevelt. You can't say she was not productive, right?

Right, right.

She even understood this. Do something that scares you every day because that is pushing you past— not a comfort zone, because it ain't comfortable not being a high potential person. I never use the word comfort. It's so uncomfortable on our souls. Your familiar zone, I call it. You push past the familiar. Not comfort. Ain't comfortable, folks. Stop thinking that that is a comfort zone. That is the most uncomfortable zone I lived in for years of like, I am not reaching my full potential. Help. Now, am I already reaching my full potential? No, but I'm further along, so I feel a bit better.

Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeanne, I mean, it's absolutely amazing because when you talk about that, It strikes, you know, for me in the work that I have done over the last decade, I get so many people going like, oh my God, you know, when you're, you know, telling your story or, or, you know, doing some of the work where there's part of your story comes in, it's like, wow, you're so courageous. And, you know, courage is to move forward not in the absence of fear but in spite of it. And very much that, you know, completely resonates with what I'm hearing from you was that motivation to, yeah, okay, I'm, I'm scared of this, but I'm not going to let it stop me from moving forward and having the life that I deserve.

That is an interesting point because I talk about that. We can never be fearless. Fear is what makes us look before we cross the street. We're afraid of being hit. Okay, yeah, fear motivates us. You just hit on the key word. It's being courageous despite whatever is going on. And okay, when we say don't be afraid, we really mean have courage. You know, maybe I should change that to have courage. You know, you can do this. Yes, because we're never not going to be afraid, but we can get rid of enough of it to function. And if we don't, you know, you're basically— it's a choice. And I've realized this, I obviously, I think a lot about this. It's a choice. It's a choice to say I'm afraid I can't do that. When you take a bird's eye view, you're in the matrix and somebody's looking down, you know, an angel.

Yeah.

They're thinking, you know what? Your human emotions in your body, which is your heart and your hormones and all that breath, right?

Yeah.

You're letting that get in the way, living the life you want. What? Like when you think about it, it's really small, but we're so in it in our monodrama. It's a monodrama. You know, a drama that's all in somebody's head is called a monodrama, right?

Okay.

Into our monodramas all the time, then we can't get out of it, okay? We need to get a bird's eye view, like do, do, do, do. That's NLP actually. Go to a, you know, pretend you're a bird on a tree way ahead and you're looking down on yourself, all your little emotions. And you're like, wow, that's kind of ridiculous in a way. You know, what, that I'm letting that little, or if you imagine you're looking from space down on the earth and there's all these little tiny people with all the little emotions. You'd be like, you know, just you people, just do what you need to do to get on the path you want, right?

Yeah.

So when you think of it that way, we all get so caught up and it becomes this thing that's larger than life.

Yeah, yeah. I absolutely love that imagery. Because even in my head, as you described it as briefly as you did, it's like, oh yeah, I can see that. It really makes me wonder, you know, when we were talking, obviously, you know, about the success that not only you brought to yourself, but you brought to others. And, you know, I found it really intriguing when we talked about kind of reframing the idea of ambition and stability. You connected it with emotional fulfillment. Yes. And I mean, in my world, I'm going like, wow, like, that's That's a space not many people go. And so to me, it was very much leader-like to really step into this space because, as you said, the emotions are very much individual and to each of us. I wonder if you can kind of take our audience through a bit of a journey there to kind of understand that so that they can see how this idea of ambition and stability and financial security, which is very traditional business measures of success, success or societal measures, how that it actually reaches emotional fulfillment as well. Can you connect those dots for us?

For sure. Because, you know, the thing is, they say it's easy to— no, that's not easy. They say, um, you know, once you reach your first million, after you reach your first million, you can't reach the second one if it's just like selling something you don't care about, your heart's not in it.

Okay.

But if you're motivated and you're emotionally connected to what you're doing, then going forward is like— it was easy for me. I wasn't like, oh my gosh, what am I doing? And do I really like this? So to me, um, the pain was not just, oh, I'm not making money. No, no, it was, oh my gosh, I have not fulfilled even one-tenth of my potential in my life, and that feels really bad. Okay?

Yeah.

So the money's part of it. And the doing what I'm doing is the other part. Truly. And actually a colleague said to me, he said, I just got goosebumps again. He said, you are so emotionally connected to what you do and the people you're helping. I said, really? I said, yeah, I am. He said, no, I can tell. He said, and that is why you're successful. Because when your emotional connection is so strong to what you're doing, you don't have to motivate. You're intrinsically motivated to help people. And does the money follow? Yes, of course. We have to do all the business work and the stuff that we don't love sometimes. But the cookie for me, the carrot is that I'm gonna help those people and they're gonna get somewhere. And that makes me feel really great about myself because that's my mission. Oh, and by the way, I'll get paid for it, of course. So it's not just, gee, I need to make money. It's many things. It's also modeling for my daughters. That was very important. And I'm thinking, wow, they're gonna see someone that had a failed marriage, gets out of it, and then struggles all her life, never really is a success. They're modeling that. That's like, oh, oh, we can never do well once we exit a marriage, women. That would be their mindset because that would be what they would see. And I remember thinking, I cannot model that for them. I will model that you can always pick yourself up in life and turn things around, because that is emotionally resilient and physically resilient, actually, in the real world of reality. So that, that was bothering me, that the modeling was, oh, you know, you're just down and out, Mom, and you know we're going to struggle all our lives. Although they didn't know we were struggling. I never showed them that. I just, you know, yeah, things were fine, but They eventually would've found that out. Oh, okay, I get it. So it would not just be about, you know, moms exiting a marriage and failing. It would be people. It'd be like human beings once they're down and out.

Yeah.

The best story to teach our kids is actually failing and then coming out of failure rather than just being a success your whole life. They're not learning anything from that except my parents are highly successful.

Mm-hmm.

So it's a better lesson.

Absolutely.

Up and down, and you can always reinvent and become. So my daughters are walking around with that mindset. Well, yeah, you can be down, you can be not, you can be up. That's the best lesson. And I realize that's a gift.

Yeah, absolutely. And I totally relate. I had somebody just yesterday asking me, well, Cynthia, how do you define success? And I knew they were trying to find an angle to work with me on a business development opportunity. And I've been on that side of the coin many times. So, it's like, yeah, I kind of know why you're asking. It says, but yes, I want to be paid for the work I do. And I know that I bring value. I don't even question the value I bring. I go, but my true measure now is not by all of the extrinsic things that I used to measure success by. All the stuff. I measure it by the heart and soul. I measure the work I do by my heart and soul. That is where my work is centered. And it— because it's centered to my purpose in this. I haven't heard you talk about your purpose, but at least not in that way. Is that what you found, that you feel I use the French, my raison d'être, my purpose. Yes.

I was just talking to a French person the other day. I said, yes, I have actually worked with purpose coaches because after you make a few million, it's like, okay, what now? Okay. So I have a 40-year purpose.

Okay.

Help as many people on this earth to thrive as possible till I'm 99 years old. 'Cause I figured it out last year. Now I'd already been doing some of this because I am wanting people to thrive. It was already there. But when I pinpointed it, and people pinpointed this for me, they said, well, that's what you're doing already. But I thought, oh, oh, now I get it. Now I want to open it up to more people because you see coaches, and I also have a very high-end offer for top CEOs and people that are exiting. So these are, we are privileged as far as most of the population of the world. We are well-spoken. We are presentable, we are good at something, we're intelligent, we have talents, okay? And we're put together. Most people can't even speak on camera. Most people in the world, they just can't, all right? Or they're too ill to, or something's going on, all right? What about all those people? So now I have a mission to Fine. And I told a friend of mine that. He goes, I know somebody else like you. I said, who? He said, God. And I said, well, okay. And it was, he was so funny when he said, I thought, well, okay, maybe I won't be able to help every single person in the world. I don't think I can, but to help as many as I can. Okay. I said, no, I'm not saying to help everybody. Now with AI, which is extreme, and you were just telling me you use AI. So do I. However, the fact is AI I do not believe, and nobody knows this, I do not believe AI is going to create abundance for all. I just, I don't, nobody's ever explained the economics of that to me. They just keep saying abundance, abundance, abundance. I love it. But sit me down and give me your meaning of how this is going to work for everybody. Because all I'm hearing is basic universal income is literally, like a very low welfare. And once they get that, what else are you going to do? So basically, oh, then they'll be free to create. Really? You can't create much when you're poor, cause you can't even buy paints. So, I'm not quite getting it. And I'm thinking, whoa, I've got to start helping people figure, and not people that are all put together and coachy and, you know, influencer-like, I mean, average people. How can we help them? That's my big question. I don't know the answer, but that's my purpose. At the moment, I'm helping a bunch of coaches and consultants because coaches also help other people. So me helping coaches is helping other people with their relationships, life, business, leadership, you name it, diet, you know, whatever. So yes, there is a purpose there. And also I work with a few high-level people 'cause there's a trickle-down effect. Yeah, when the leaders are like— and sometimes they're starting like a nonprofit or something like that. So yes, there definitely is purpose here. If there weren't, I could just retire.

I don't want to do that.

So, um, I feel like I haven't quite gotten started yet.

I don't know. I mean, if your purpose is to 99, I think you got a little bit to go.

I do got a bit to go because, well, I'm, I'm 60 now, so it's 39 years left.

Well, you know, I'm 60 as well. I don't think we had talked about that, but yes. And like you, I found in what I call spirit, which is kind of where I center myself. I centered it is that I've made a commitment to teach 1 billion people about how to bring the philosophy of acceptance into their life in order to live a much more stress-free, compatible life, being that there's lots of people in this world and we don't have to like everybody, but we kind of have to live together. Right. And as an inclusion specialist and leadership, you know, development person, that's kind of what I focus on. So, yeah, but I want to teach 1 billion people by the year 2050, which if you put it into the math is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000 a month that I have, have to ramp up to create a process to be able to amplify. I know I can't do that on my own. I, I'm looking for those people that get this. And I didn't always have this purpose, this drive, and it was to wake up and go I know why I woke up and I'm breathing today, because I have another chance to fulfill that purpose.

That's— we have a huge mission. How are you going to dispense this information?

How? Where?

How? Through what means?

I'm looking for the people to carry the message. I'm looking for, you know, the technology to be able to bring it forth. Um, you know, it's why I've written my first book, looking for an agent to take it out so that I You know, amplify it, the stages that I go on to talk about these, right? These are all the ways in which I'm trying to execute on fulfilling that purpose.

Right, right. No, I love it. And I love it. And it's very hard for people to focus on that kind of high message when they're not putting food on the table. That's what I've understood. I understood when I had no money, It was hard for me to think about like personal development. Like, I'm just struggling to feed my children, you know. So, you know, that's a luxury, a luxury. So that's why I focus on the abundance part, because then people are freed up to get further up Maslow's hierarchy, to then think about more philosophical— it's very hard for people that are not doing well to, to care about philosophy and art. That's just proven, right? Because they're just like working in, you know, in the old days, the peasants, they were just like working in the fields and trying to eat, right? It's the people that had more money that could think about art and philosophy and all that. That's a luxury, right? So yeah, um, but a billion people, I'm just thinking a lot of those people won't even, uh, like maybe not even have access to some of the places that you are, right?

They won't. Yeah, they won't.

You gotta get people in the villages talking about it.

But I, I need an army of believers in wanting to, to live a life of acceptance with others, right? Right.

And not, not, you know, you know the word I don't like? Tolerate.

Oh, I do not like that.

I'm like, wow, that word is so misused. That tolerate is almost like, oh, okay, I'll just tolerate you. That I don't think served anybody.

No, completely. Yeah. And John, I mean, just for clarity, because I'm sure the audience has heard me more than once say this, acceptance does not mean agreement. We seem to think that we need to be agreeing with each other.

Oh, no.

It's okay to not agree.

Oh, it's totally fine. You know what's funny? Americans are very different from French people. Okay.

Okay.

French people know it's totally fine to disagree and they agree to disagree and then they go and have some wine together. Okay.

Yeah.

There's no, like, resentment. It's like, hey, you know, I knew a guy that was an actual communist. Okay. From, from Chile.

Yeah.

Nice guy. Okay. He was this communist. He lived in France, but he was the most capitalist communist I've ever met in my life.

Okay.

And it was sort of by default because he was from Chile and it was, you know, against the whole regime there. But I remember he was talking to some other person and they were totally, totally not in agreement. Okay. And I'm, I'm certainly not communist, so I'm not in agreement, but we would chat and he'd, you know, say, and I'd say this and we didn't agree. Okay, let's go, go have dinner. You know, we're still friends to this day. And you know, the French would say that, they'd say, they'd be all heated arguments, they love, and then they go, okay, and then they'd have their dinner and drink and then they leave. And they would say that, they said, Americans just have to be right about their side. And if they don't agree with somebody, they hate them, right? And I thought, they're kind of right. It's like, you know, you don't have to agree with me, But you don't have to hate me because I don't agree with you either. And I think that is being mature. That's just a mature person.

Yeah.

Right? That you might not have the same point of view.

Yes.

But that's okay. I'm not you. You have different genetics, upbringing, life experience, everything. So I find that acceptable that you don't think the way I do and that's okay. Right? And I think that's what you're getting at. And that's the difference between culturally like Americans and for instance, French people.

Yeah.

Okay. Very interesting difference that they can agree to disagree and then have some wine together. It's okay, of course. And they actually say it's good to disagree. It's good to disagree because then more is created from that discussion, which is true.

Yeah.

It's true. If you're not killing each other and just trying to fight for your side and actually interested in what the conversation can bring, then that could be productive. But if it's just I'm right, you're right, then nothing's going to be produced. It's just like fighting, right?

Absolutely. And I don't know if you're familiar with— I don't want to get into a deep breakdown of it, but if you take people that are on opposing sides and if you keep kind of pushing the extreme point of view that they might have, what ends up happening is they meet again. Exactly.

Because some people are so far left, they're actually right. Some people are so far right, it's true.

It's just a circle.

It's a circle. Is kind of funny to me because it seems almost all the same to me.

Yeah.

I don't get into politics for that reason. It's just, you know, right?

I love it. Love it. I wanna back out the conversation a little bit to a little higher level. And that was, well, first of all, we didn't touch on, but you mentioned one of my favorite people, Abraham Maslow and Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Like, I'm an absolute fangirl of the process because I was at the peak of reaching this idea of self-actualization in my career. And then I made a major decision that moved me back to level 1, which I just simply describe as surviving. And it was kind of akin to that that visual that you described where I was looking back on my life, but it was kind of— I'm looking up at that bird and all the privilege and how easy life was, and there was a want for nothing, and now there was a need for everything just to survive. And that was my starting point 10 years ago. And so I absolutely love Maslow's hierarchy. I believe if we can all get to the love and thrive, level 3 in Maslow, that is a great place because thriving means we're giving back to society. All our needs are met, we are all thriving, but we are thriving in that we're giving back and helping others to reach their point of thriving as well.

Yes, yes. And the thing is, you can go up and down because you can have thoughts But at least you know what it was like then. And you're like, okay, now I'm trying to get back to that point 3, right? Level 3.

Yeah, absolutely. It's an amazing motivator to drive you. Yes. Another point we had touched on was the idea of the double bind. We were talking about our experiences as women within the workplace, within society. And very much how you are beautifully breaking that mold and showing, as you talked about, for your daughters, for others, but for everyone, how to kind of change this conversation. And I wonder if you could touch briefly on kind of what it takes to navigate or disrupt those dynamics and do it with complete authenticity. You know, which you found in yourself, right?

Well, okay, I'll just talk about like the coaching industry. There's a lot of bro marketers, okay? And they're all— and when I, when I got online 6 years ago, I thought, wow, they're, they're all, you know, you, you know, very militaristic, and you pay them and then they ignore you, and it's like tough. And I thought, wow, why do we have to coach this way? I'm not going to coach this way. That's not me. So, um, you know, I realized that you have to do things your way. There's no way I'm gonna treat people badly like that. And it's not necessary for success, and it actually just makes people feel bad and they produce less. But somebody out there said, hey, let's be all tough and, you know, tough. And I thought, okay, I can be lovely and loving and tough love sometimes, you know, boundaries and you gotta do this. So there's definitely the yin and the yang going on. And I can do it my way and it works. And I can also teach people to sell the right way, not the bro way. But there was all this stuff about, you know, how to sell. And I thought, no, I will not sell that way because it's not right. There's, you know, there's a right way of selling and a wrong way of selling. Okay. If it feels icky for you or the other person, you're definitely in the wrong way. If it feels like you're convincing, controlling, persuading, or telling stories or half-baked lies, It's wrong. Trust me on that. Because you know what? Lying is wrong. Let's just go there. People in our society, it is something strange that we actually— we— I don't— people think it's okay to lie. When was it ever okay to lie? It's just wrong. So for all sorts of reasons. So when you get clear that you can actually— yes, you can get clients by not lying to them and treating them badly— that's a revelation for most people. And you know, it's logical for me, like, I've never done and that. And I thought, I'm not going to act in that way. No, I'm going to coach and teach and sell in my own way. So that is how I, you know, I didn't become one of those women coaches that everything is one. You know, there's another thing, the women coaches are like, oh, love, it's wonderful. But they weren't getting their clients anywhere because they're afraid of not being mean. So you have these two polar opposites of the bro marketers and yeah, mean treatment actually, and neglect and not helping people and just churning. Then you had the women coaches. Some of them were like, and people would tell me this, you know, I'm sick of people saying, yes, that's great. But no, it's not. I'm not getting any clients. You're not helping. So for people to succeed, there must be a high level of challenge and a high level of support. Okay, so let's look at this. The challenge is like the male thing. The support is the female thing, taking care. So that's known that if you want to succeed and you want your teams to succeed and you want your clients to succeed, there has to be those two things. High-level challenge, so no babying, but then a high-level support. Now what happens is some of these people, it's a high level of challenge, says, go do that. But they're not supporting their clients to do it. But then you had the other woman-type coaches that were soft because they wanted everybody just to like them. And it was not enough challenge, but lots of support. So that's the key, is the yin and the yang. Tons of challenge, tons of support together. Everybody's happy.

Brilliant. Brilliant. Now I know we're getting up near the tail end of our time together. So, I wanted to make sure I give you a chance if you've got a book, a program, something that you wanted to tell people about that they should be looking out for or reaching out to you. Is there any particular program that you'd love to highlight right now?

Yeah, sure. I have a podcast which is great guests with all sorts of information called Business Wealth Impact, business.wealth.impact. It's on, on YouTube. You can find it on Jeanne Amelore TV, or just— it's great, it's free, of course. Um, and also I, I just have my ongoing, uh, you know, 12-month or 3-month, um, program, and it's for coaches and consultants, and sometimes, you know, fractional people, uh, or people that are in corporate that just really want to be a consultant or a coach. We can We can do that on a dime. So, it's people leaving corporate as well. We're getting a lot of high achievers from corporate. And you can just go on my website, jeanalmelore.com, and you can book a call.

Perfect. Well, we'll put the links for all of those sources in the show notes so that everybody's able to find them and be able to connect with you. I want to make sure that I leave you enough time to continue delivering such amazing, powerful insights from the work that you've done, the journey that you've been on. But I did want to just thank you very much for taking the time and to be here with me today. I personally really appreciate it.

Oh, you're so welcome. It's been a very nice conversation.

Fabulous. Fabulous. Well, when we close, I want to I want to reflect on power, purpose, legacy. And when we were talking, it was so intriguing for me that there was this kind of aspect of no matter where anybody's at in life, no matter kind of what they might have done to that point, there was that moment where things can kind of change, and that may even be driven by or leading to a meaningful legacy. And Very much. I see that in your story, but I guess, did you want to kind of encapsulate that as a closing note for those listening in? Is what do they— what's the takeaway for them to really center on?

Okay. So the first thing is, and this, I love saying this, is you are worthy and ready. Right? N-O-W. Which keys into, if not now, when? So it's about now, now, now. Yeah. You are never going to have a clearing in your life. Things are never going to be perfect. There's never gonna be 5 months where you just create something and you have to stop trying to create a space that's never gonna be there to wait. 'Cause that's just excuses, excuses. And the one thing that I did was I always just created lemonade out of whatever lemons were given me at any point in my life. Just make lemonade all day long. And the other thing that really holds us back is wallowing in regret and sadness. That the regret and the sadness and the what could have been, that has to just be cleared away or put on the side. You can always go back to it. Regret, sadness, I get it. I get it. We all get it. Okay, that's okay. It's okay. And I'm okay. And if not now, when? And I'm worthy and ready right now. So what do I do? I make lemonade with the lemons I have right in front of me. If you do that, you got a lot of lemonade going on. There's some sweetness in that too. Yeah. So really the thing is just do it and stop all the excuses of why you can't. You, you know, have courage. You can do this.

Brilliant. Well, thank you again. This has been So wonderful. And I'd love to remind our audience that, uh, thank you so much for tuning in today, um, to another episode of Holding It Both Ways. Uh, make sure you hit the subscribe button so that you can hear other amazing guests who have been with us and sharing the wisdom that you've heard from Jean today. You can hear what they're able to contribute. And for all of the great resources that we referred to, check the show notes for those. So thank you, have a wonderful day, and we'll look forward to seeing you in the next episode.