WERKIN Interview with Cynthia Fortlage

Hi everyone, welcome to Workin's AMA with Cynthia Fortlage. Am I saying your name correctly, Cynthia?

Perfect.

Lovely. Cynthia is a coach, consultant, and speaker, and I will let her introduce more about herself in the coming call. So I'm just keeping an eye on, on admitting people as well. But thank you very much for joining us today, Cynthia, during our I believe it's our promotion week as part of our program, and as a founder as well, it's obviously an important part of what you do, so really interested to hear your insights. Can I start off by getting you to introduce yourself to the group, please?

Absolutely. Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening to everyone. Greetings from Medellín, Colombia. Where I was on a world travel. I figured 2020 was the year to do world travel. COVID had different opinion, so I decided to stay parked here in Medellín. And it's actually where I had taken what had really been a formal side business of what I was doing, and I started very formally doing it. Back in 2017 for others. Of course, I've got a 30-year-plus career as an executive. With that, specifically, I had a portfolio responsible for digital marketing and for IT. And I did the digital marketing and IT together for 6 years at the same time, so it was kind of left brain, right brain. Over the course of my career, I've developed many skill sets. And what I really found was my passion was not in what I was doing. It was in who I was doing it for. It was doing it for other people. So it was really reinventing myself to deal with it. Part of why I was traveling was to find myself. And as lockdown came in, I started 2019, or this year, 2020, with no website, just using some social media channels and kind of really doing it on the side. And now I've got a full website doing everything. I'm talking about a branding campaign with a UK company, just looking at the bigger picture of how to kind of take what for me was a personal passion and part of it born from my life of what I've lived over the last 5 years or so and really turn it into helping others that really just spoke to me in such a way that said, you just need to focus all your energy. So I really just had to commit to making this my life, my mission to deal with it. So that's what I do is in the consulting space, I take that wide set of skill sets in the coaching, whether it's helping organizations, but more specifically working with women and LGBT+ persons who are in a professional career looking to achieve some sort of professional goal, working with them and continuing my international public speaking career, which I've done for quite a while and certainly have built a fair travel itinerary for. So yeah, that's kind of where I'm coming from, and turning it into a personal passion and helping people is really what it simply boils down to.

Well, that's amazing. And you talk about your journey over the past 5 years in particular. You mentioned that, and if you want to go into more detail about that, then I welcome you to, but I also wonder, after a 30-year career as an executive, finding out what your passion was and what you wanted to do must have been quite a journey. Was there anything that tipped you over the edge in terms of actually making it your career and making that switch?

Yeah, it's, um, believe it or not, both the commentary piece that you offered me and your question are in perfect alignment because Kūpaka. Because it's really both that came together. I like to describe myself as a woman with a transgender history. So for 50 years, I lived life as a white privileged male, going through life not feeling that I had privilege, and not really realizing how life was just handed to me. And it wasn't really until I began this journey of figuring out who I really was, that I'd been denied since 4 years old, that I started to really truly discover myself. And it was through some of the process, some of the downtime post-surgery, that I was really sitting thinking with the space of, you know, what I do and my passion. And it really became clear to me in that reflective moment that my passion wasn't what I was doing. You know, the focus of technology, when you lead a technology portfolio, people, you know, they expect you to know how it works, how you assemble it, and what you can do with it to solve problems. And for me, the exciting part was always the business problem you were trying to solve that technology could be used as an enabler. I really could care less about how it works. So at the end of the day, I realized, well, that's just not in alignment anymore. But it was also that career and that path was much like my gender identity, was something that I was doing because it's what others expected of me. It wasn't that I ever truly found my passion and followed it. So the two very much came into alignment once I kind of figured out who I was.

That's great. And was there anyone, a mentor or a friend or a community that gave you the confidence to switch your careers, to make your passion your life, or did it come from you, or a bit of both?

I think it's really, it's a great question because it really came from two sources. One is my community of women who trusted me and the intriguing aspect that I actually understood gender from two diametrically binary opposed points of view. And so they had lots of questions and that really is what began the very informal coaching aspect. And some of them just kept coming back for more and more and more. And it was like, oh, I can do this. And they're finding this helpful. But, you know, there's a point in your life where you're never— you never have a lack of fear. But it is knowing how to move forward. I think some people describe that as courage. I have fear every day in my life. It's just it no longer stops me from doing things. So while I'm worried about what does it look like to be this entrepreneur and to be initially starting out and living off my own savings and self-funding. But at the end of the day, it is what my passion, it's what I believe in, because I believe in myself in order to do it. So it was really the external support of saying, oh, I really could do this and this is of value. And the intrinsic part of saying, no, you can do this. This is passionate, and don't let fear stop you. Move forward in spite of it.

Well, that's certainly very powerful. Thank you, Cynthia Fortlage. And I'll use this opportunity, this breaking conversation, to remind people if they have any questions about anything Cynthia is saying, please do just pop it in the chat and I can read it out. But I want to now focus on, I guess, where you are at in your career because you— it's a startup, you're an entrepreneur, you're a founder. When we talk about promotion, I guess traditionally people understand it as rising through a company or progressing to, to the next stage in their own careers. As a founder, you're at the top of that chain, you work for yourself. How, how do you see a progression in your career?

Well, I, you know, I think there's really a couple of avenues that progression happens. So the first is most likely the growth of my clients, and my client base is certainly one aspect. But again, it's not my success in that, it's seeing that the women that I work with who are successful in part because I work with them. Because I, I don't make people successful. I help them be successful by realizing everything that they have the potential to be and to do. So that's one level. I think one of the other probably more unique aspect is I've chosen this life of being a digital nomad. Even though I'm traveling under a Canadian passport, I only have a storage locker and a post office box back in Canada. I no longer have a home. So in order to continue this lifestyle of being a digital nomad, I have to at least be successful to cover off those costs of living and traveling that way. So I think that's another level of progression is that I'm giving myself permission to have the lifestyle that I desire. And I think probably the third and final piece would be the growth of the organization as a whole. Today I'm a solopreneur. It's just me. You're not getting someone that I'm farming stuff out to. I am doing it all. And I think that that ultimately, as the organization grows, there will be others. And so that I can actually create career paths and growth opportunities for others in helping others. So those that find the passion, the message that I'm delivering, something that they believe in as well, then the growth of the organization. So it's really those three ways, starting with the clients, supporting myself, and ultimately growing the organization and creating space for others to bring their passion in helping folks as well.

That's great, and you talk about, obviously you're a solopreneur at the moment, but you will be looking to expand, no doubt, very soon. Yeah. And I just wonder, there will be a few managers on this call as well, looking to create an inclusive culture, looking to be there and be present for the people that they manage. Is there a way that you have done that in your 30-year executive career or plan to do that with anyone you may hire? Is there a particular culture you want to build for the organization that you are building and how do you plan to do that or how have you done that in the past?

Right, great question. So yes, I definitely intend to do that on a go-forward basis and it's not the necessarily the most qualified candidate. I think one of the interesting lessons I learned in my career as an executive was it's not just the people who show up with the stamped piece of paper that says they've taken X course. I'm looking for smart people. Smart people who can learn, who can be creative, and quite honestly, who can have an opinion different than my own. I'm not looking to build a team of people who agree with me. That's not how we create diverse thought and be creative. And I very much had that, certainly leading a technology team. I think, you know, if anyone's familiar in the STEM or STEAM, depending which acronym you prefer, space of science, technology, engineering, mathematics. Than in a space that, you know, it's very devoid of women. And I always used to joke, not realizing how crass of a joke it was, that, you know, the benefit of going to a tech conference as a woman, the bathrooms were always free. You know, and it's really rather crass to look at it from that perspective. But again, it really wasn't until I started to put myself, you know, pardon the pun, put my different set of shoes on and walk in someone else's life, ultimately my life, to realize, you know, just that perspective. And so again, just really understanding that if I know that that's a void, what can I specifically do? So At the organization I was with, we always participated in work experience and co-op programs. It was actually many decades ago how I got my career start, and so I always participated in them. And quite honestly, if you look probably through the first 10+ years, they were young white men that were getting the jobs. And in the last probably 6 to 8 years, you'll notice that they were predominantly female and they were They were of very mixed backgrounds, a lot of international students who may have even been struggling with English and getting their first career experience in English. And it was— it wasn't that they didn't know it, it was that no one had given them an opportunity to prove it. And I love connecting with them post the work we've done, watching them on LinkedIn and just seeing their careers soar and knowing that I probably had a very small part to play and maybe given them that ounce of confidence in the early days. So learning from that and growing that, you know, my technical team was from diverse backgrounds. My software and solutions manager was Jamaican that had immigrated to Canada. My technical services He was a Native Canadian that dealt with it. I had a gentleman from the Philippines who was in charge of front-end customer support. So again, just, you know, going after diverse folks. Our network and security was this amazing young woman from Brazil. So I had lots of key people that I started to bring in, and I brought diversity. And, you know, I think probably one of the most powerful things I ever learned was to tell them and give them permission. I know that you think that I'm the boss, but I'm not always right. So if you think I'm not right, it's okay to tell me that, and let's have a discussion about why I'm not right and what is your solution, what should we be considering. And parking the ego long enough to allow that to happen, that's a moment, that's a huge learning moment. And I think that's very similar to what we hear nowadays, that we need to listen, which I thought was unique because when I started this year, I had a theme for this year because it was all about learning about myself, and it was shut up and listen. Because I think, you know, I can talk, But when I'm in a group, it's not about me talking, it's about me listening. And that's what I hope to bring to my organization as I grow, and that's those things that I've learned and how I've learned them, that's what I look to bring to the clients and organizations that I work with.

I think that's great. Thank you, Cynthia Fortlage. I've actually got a message that's come to me privately, which is a question for you, which is, where would you like to be this time next year?

I can answer that from a whole bunch of different points of view. Physically located where in the world, I don't think it really matters. I think one of the things I've learned was to get more comfortable being by myself. And I found I really do love being with others. This experience, I've been living with roommates, never done that before. So this has been really cool, and I can't see not living with others. So some sort of environment somewhere in the world with others. Career-wise, honestly, I'd be happy if I'm just, quote, covering my costs, that I'm no longer living off savings. I think everyone knows that when you start up a business, that what you need to do is, if you truly feel that passionate about, in my case, I prepared to self-fund for the first 2 years. So I'm going, I'm going at this, I'm going at this full time for 2 years and I'm going to put it in. I would certainly love it if I could be at a point where I'm no longer living off those savings. I can park it. To me, it's travel money. And just cover my expenses, whatever my rent or living costs, my food, etc. I'd be happy with that. But I'd also be absolutely thrilled if I was exceeding you know, any targets that I may have some mental perception of growing to, you know, whether it's like, you know, like a $5,000 month, $10,000 month. And you start to kind of learn, you, you don't set limits. They're kind of milestones. The limits are whatever's possible. That, that's, that's what the gift I've been given. Is the art of the possible. And if I believe in myself enough, anything's possible.

So I don't know if that answers their question, but I think it probably does. And I believe in you too, Cynthia Fortlage. That's very inspiring, someone has said in the chat, and reminds me of a Mean Girls quote, um, actually, which is, "The limit does not exist." Um, yeah, I think that's quite beautiful. Um, so we actually have another question here. What actionable things do you think allies can do to be more supportive? And that could be again in relation to pretty much anything. It might be in relation to what you spoke about before, which is gender identity. It could be supporting women in tech. Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. So, you know, I think the whole idea of allies is, you know, for instance with the Black community, I want to be an ally. It's not for me to declare myself an ally. It's only by the actions and doing things that I can truly be an ally. I think also with women's circles and groups that I can certainly declare myself as a woman. There's obviously some very strong UK authors who may believe otherwise, and we don't need to give them airtime, but, you know, simply I need to, in those women's circles, to prove that I can be an ally in those spaces. And just because, you know, I've carried responsibility in the past of leading a feminist organization nationally in Canada doesn't give me a pass card to enter any circle, much as when it comes to specifically gender identity, transgender, and the entire, you know, gender identity umbrella. Because we talk about, you know, gender non-conforming and other variations on gender, non-binary, etc., that fit within that whole space that do not necessarily fit under the transgender umbrella. To me, you know, some of the aspects of an ally are you speak up so the other person who's being targeted or attacked or or hurt, doesn't have to, to physically be the barrier in between, to realize what privilege you do have in a given space and to use it. And that was a really hard lesson for me to learn. What was privilege and how do I use my privilege as a white person in given spaces? How do I deal with, certainly in Canada, Indigenous rights is a huge issue. Just trying to get my head around it and go, boy, did I come from the wrong side of this. And it's caused a lot of hurt. Now I need to do something to start unwrapping, exposing, feeling that hurt, sitting with it, and then doing the work to get rid of it. And it doesn't matter in any of those sectors. The work has to be done. The work is both personal, it's systemic, because in each of those things, everything we're seeing today is about systemic problems that come back and that I see relating to this concept of binary that has been put in, that is patriarchal. And again, let me clarify, patriarchy is not men to me. Patriarchal is a system. And even men are victims of that system. And so realizing that, you know, how do we start to pull this apart? How do we start to deconstruct everything and, you know, rebuild it? And honestly, I think what we're seeing happening with the focus and the continued presence of Black Lives Matter is really starting to reteach us what every one of these groups that are— what we need to be doing to unpack it. It begins here, but it doesn't end. We need to continue to keep changing and creating the world that we need to. And again, that's just something I feel I'm called to do, and I have no idea how to do it, but I do know that I've got the energy, the passion, and I have a lot of skills that can help me figure out how to do that. So That's where I'm coming from.

Thank you very much, that's a very thorough answer, and I like that you touched on both the— you mentioned both the systemic and the personal, and I think it's a big question. What allies can do is very broad, and we do tend to look at it as, okay, I'm an ally in this, in a patriarchal system, in a white supremacist system, what do I do? And actually, often those actions are personal. And when you were saying about even in your Women's March work in those spaces, how can I be an ally to someone else? Me being a member of the LGBT community as well, thinking not how others can be an ally to me, but thinking how, how can— not how can others be an ally to people in the LGBT community, how can I be an ally to 'bisexual women, bisexual men, how can I be an ally to trans people? How can I be an ally to other lesbians?' Because it's just about— it's how I can be an ally to everyone. If someone is being discriminated against, how do you stand up for them? And I— yes, yes, it is hurtful when it directly impacts your identity as well. And also hurtful to be— to acknowledge your participation in, or people close to you, their participation in these structures. But it is, it's something that hopefully we're all starting to acknowledge and do.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that that's probably the biggest issue because lots of people have asked me, like, for me, I had a social awakening when I dealt with my identity.

Right.

And it literally was like I was going through life with blinders, and then all of a sudden they were gone. And it was like, whoa, what do you mean the world looks like this? This is not— and it's not that the world didn't look like that. It's the world didn't look like that when I was able to go through life like this. And so it wasn't that I was ignoring it, and I didn't— it just was never part of the world that I was in. And so I can't tell you the number of people that in my personal networks, in my professional networks, I got, "Wow, you're the first transgender person I ever know." And so I've answered every question imaginable, but it's like, really? Have we lived that isolated of a world, or do we just not know it? And if it is, then what do we need to do to start peeling back their blinders?

And it's when it happens, people start to go, "Whoa." And it would be interesting to know those people who you've spoken to, I don't know if you've talked to anyone about this, but after they say, "Oh, you're the first trans person that I know," do they then actively go— is that a tick box for them? Is that a, "Oh, I've met and spoken to and understood a trans person's experience, I now don't need to actively try and bring more trans people into my circle, in my network. Is it a tick box, or are those people then going out to talk to more trans people?

Yeah, I don't know how much active conversation, quite honestly, goes on. So I always have this analogy and it's held true for me, is that 50% of the people in my network still today who have existed before in my male identity are truly friends and allies and are there. And the other 50% are going, "Whoa, let's watch this train wreck and see how it goes." So I do that very consciously and it's okay because they're not negative and so forth, which means I can easily create enemies, but it's much harder to create allies. And so I would rather have the opportunity to interact with somebody and to educate and to share and to do it. And just because I'm willing to do it, I know there's so many that can't or are not willing to do it. And therefore, that is part of my privilege that I can give back to other transgender folks, is to use my privilege to be prepared to speak so they don't have to, and hopefully make a world much easier for them.

That's really beautiful. Thank you so much, and thank you for speaking up. I'm going to— I'm aware we only have a few minutes left, so I am going to open up the floor to some more questions if anyone would like to post any in the chat. You've spoken so eloquently and concisely as well. You've kept the time, which is great. If there isn't anything from anyone else, I would like to say thank you very, very much for spending some time with us today, Cynthia, and ask if there's anything you would like to leave the group with, if there is any piece of advice for anything we've talked about— allyship, networking, promotion, confidence, starting a new career— anything you'd like to leave the group with?

Wow, I've got so many phrases, but I think if you know me by now, I have one phrase that is my raison d'être. I literally believe that I have been asked to deliver this message on a global basis by the Creator, by Source, whatever phrase you use. As a world, as people, we need to stop trying to understand everyone and their lived experiences before we decide if we're going to accept them. And so I ask you to accept without understanding. Accept that I'm a human being on my own unique journey, just as I accept that you are on your own unique journey. And when we do that, we still— we're human beings. We're inquisitive. We want to learn. And so we're still going to want to know why. But at least we can start that from a positive point of view of, I see you, I respect that you're a human being. Now let's, can we talk about the things I don't understand, the differences versus, okay, why are you like this? Like, I don't know if I can even accept that you're, which is really what comes from a very negative point of view, a very judgmental point of view. So learn to accept without understanding is a way that we should all be living our life. And please help me share that message to a global audience.

I have never heard that phrase before, and I will continue to perpetuate it. So thank you very much for that, and I hope everyone on this call does too. So thank you so much for your time, Cynthia Fortlage, and I will be chatting to you very soon. I know if anyone would like to reach out to Cynthia, please contact me and I can put you in touch. And have a great day, everyone.

Take care.

Bye.