EP 1:27 Let's Get Kinky (Sober)

Kink scenes are not just hookups. They are going to involve you getting to know somebody first, which gives you the opportunity to find out if they are— if they use or drink or whatever. Most people that are really into the kink lifestyle or into like BDSM of some sort, they don't want to have their senses dulled when they're Doing a kink scene. They want to be fully present for it.

Welcome to the After Meth Podcast. This is your host, Dr. Dallas Bragg, a former crystal meth addict, now sobriety coach. Join me on my mission to increase awareness around the epidemic of crystal meth among the gay male population and create a repository of resources for current and past addicts as well as and especially for their loved ones. This is The Aftermath. Trigger warning, this podcast will contain discussions pertaining to drug and alcohol misuse. If you feel triggered to use or relapse, please call SAMHSA's National Hotline at 1-800-662-HELP. Also, if you are new in your sobriety journey and you feel like you could be triggered, by discussions around drug, alcohol, and sex misuse, please do not listen to this podcast. All right, now on with the show. Welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast in a very special episode today that you all have been asking me for for a very long time, and I'm happy to give it to you. It's a kink Kinky Sober Podcast. We're going to call it Let's Get Kinky, but we're going to talk about all about sober kink because all of you who have been in a meth addiction, uh, you got kinky. And whether you were kinky before or not, you got kinky, um, and probably too kinky. And a lot of you are traumatized by it. And so coming out of the meth addiction, when you start to rebuild your sexual template You many times have to start at ground zero. You have to reset and detox and maybe take 90 days with no porn, no sex, no masturbation. That's what has been suggested among a lot of the experts. But if you can do that, you kind of reset and then you have to start rebuilding over. But there are part of you, or many of you, who liked kink before you got into your addiction. So you like kink after the addiction too. But you're traumatized. You don't, you don't want to be triggered. Some people will put their leather back on or their harness, and all of a sudden they want to use meth again. And so today we're going to give you a lot of pointers, a lot of guidance, and a lot of knowledge about how to enjoy kinks and fetishes in a healthy, sober way and rebuild your sexual template. So this is a big hot topic, and I'm glad to present it. So today I have 2 experts, Daddy Dale and Sober Steve, and we're going to pick their brains. And, um, we tried to do this podcast months ago. I'm usually like 2 or 3 months behind— ahead on my podcast, um, but we had some technical difficulties, so we're actually doing this over. But I'm kind of glad because a few months ago I was still being celibate, and I'm not now. So I am actually Yay! I'm actually interested for me too, so it'll be interesting for me to ask some questions because I'm a, I, I'm a, a child. You have to talk to me like a 2-year-old with this because yes, in crystal meth I did a lot. I did it all. Um, I guess I didn't do scat, although I did, you know, I think I videoed— yeah, I videoed myself. I said this in another podcast, but videoed myself shitting one time. That's the closest I got to scat. Um, I did a lot of things, but I don't think that I understood what I was doing. I was just doing what I was told or what I saw going on around me. Um, so I don't even know if I really enjoyed it. So anyway, enough chitchat for me. Um, Daddy Dale, would you like to introduce yourself for us, please?

Sure. I am, uh, Daddy Dale, and, uh, I am a, uh, let me get this right, a Dom switch leather pig. How's that? I think I actually got—

Well, that sounds like a mouthful. Sounds like a mouthful.

That's the hope.

Exactly, exactly. So yeah, I, uh, I, uh, being a switch means I will do either— well, in layman's terms, top or bottom. But I have more of a dom streak to me. I'm the dominant. I'm the daddy, the sir, you know, master on a few occasions, but mostly daddy or sir.

So, okay. Okay, well, we're gonna, we're gonna dive into daddy, sir, pig, Dom, switch, all that stuff. We're going to dive into that so we know what we're talking about, uh, in just a minute. Sober Steve, you're many— one of many hats tonight.

Yes, I am Sober Steve, the podcast guy. So I host the gay podcast, The Queer Sober Hero Show. That's how I got to meet you both, in a way. And it's been a journey that's helped keep me sober, but the first 2 years was very much me trying to be what I thought the perfect sober person would look like, rather than really trying to tap into like who I am and like the perfect version of myself is like. And when I started doing that, I started exploring leather and kink in a new way that I never had dared to previously. So that's how we got to where we are today.

Yeah. And you have a very interesting outfit on. So if you're not watching this, I advise you to go to YouTube so you can see Steve and his I don't. What is that? It's a harness, right?

It is a harness. I got it in New York City. It was my first kind of piece of gear, and I like that it's a one piece that kind of goes down to the underwear. So oh, but it can hook off.

Nice. I like that.

I like it because it's also like very flexible and very flexible. So it's a good combination.

Oh, it's neoprene with your viewers. Yeah, that would be like a jock harness combo right there. So yeah.

Oh, Super Steve is a jock harness.

Well, because I learned with the last recording when I did the full leather getup that it got very hot in my recording studio very quickly. So Yeah. Not only was the feedback from other people, less is more when it comes to this kind of stuff, but also for me and my comfortability right now. Yeah, perfect.

Yeah. Well, you do look very comfortable.

Thank you. Well, if we do a follow-up of this when I'm in my own place, I'll put on my, my chaps and everything. Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes. And you have a— do you have one of those like hats?

The—

they look like police officer hats to me.

They're—

I'm sure that's not what they are.

Well, his is not quite the same. Those are, those are your— that's, it's called a cover. It's a Muir cap. Yes. A Muir cap is a, the German name for it. And it's based out of, you know, World War II uniforms.

So, okay. Okay. Okay.

Leather actually kind of stems out of World War II. So, hmm, hmm.

So does meth.

Yes, it does.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

From the same side too. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Right. Right. Okay. Well, let's start with talking about your experience. with kink, maybe before your addiction for both of you, or, and then how that's evolved since. And really, yeah, let's talk about that first. If you want to go first, Daddy Dale, just talk about, did— were you into kink before? And if you were, how has it evolved?

Well, For me, I knew I was into— I've always had a thing for like boots and leather ever since I was a kid. I remember the first time I saw like a motorcycle cop in some sort of advertisement wearing like the tall boots, and it was like, okay, I like that. And then I just kind of fell into realizing that, you know, leather did it for me as well. You know, the whole, the whole image of the biker guy from the Village People, you know, he was probably one of the, the primary ones that kind of made it mainstream. But, you know, I, when I started drinking, you know, I, it was easy for me to dress up in leather and go out. But, uh, I was pretty much just kind of playing at it. I wasn't really into any of the, uh, kink aspect of it other than I liked to, to wear it when I had sex. Um, Hmm. But, uh, as I, uh, as I got involved in drugs and things like that, um, I got more into the, um, the kinky part of it 'Cause you know, it's— your inhibitions are lowered, or you're willing to do things that you're not normally thinking you'd be willing to do, especially on meth, at least for me.

Mm-hmm.

And I am pretty lucky that I didn't delve too far into that. And then I started my sobriety journey around 6 years ago, and Actually, it's been in sobriety that— well, I take that back. I decided it would be a good idea to be somebody's slave when I was just getting sober. And it was somebody that I met in recovery rooms, but subsequently we ended up using together.

Ah.

Yeah, and that was my first relapse out of the, the 4 that I have had. And, but I will tell you this, there is a whole community of sober kinky people out there. And they are the ones that kind of made me realize that it's more fun sober, you know, you're, you're—

Yeah.

You're at your full attention, you know, you're not— your senses aren't dulled. Um, your emotions aren't really fucked up. Um, Mm-hmm. And if you are in the right situation, you can have actually a whole lot more fun doing it sober than you could ever have Doing it under the influence of anything.

So, and you're speaking from experience because you've experienced both.

I am. And I can definitely tell you, comparing the two, you know, I, I've got like pictures and video of stuff that I've done while I was high. And then I've got pictures and videos of me doing things sober, and it's obviously a lot more fun sober. It's not that just I'm present, you know, I'm present there. And it's also I've discovered that's I used to be primarily. a bottom, primarily submissive. And I've, I've discovered I like to tell people what the fuck to do. And so my dominant side has, has come out. Isn't that right, boy Steve?

Yes, Daddy Dale.

I thought you're supposed to say yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

Daddy Dale, I have a question. So, sir, you were a slave, sir, when you were a slave. And we'll talk about more about what that means later. But, and you relapsed. So what advice would you give for us who want to get back into or want to get into the kinky side? How can we do it without getting triggered? Or how was it too soon for you in your sobriety? Or what was it about that? That made you relapse?

Um, part of it, for one, was I, I now realize I wasn't ready to get sober, you know. Um, that was, that was the thing. I had these ideas that, you know, my, my, my, my drug use before was involved around one person in particular. And at the time, I was still thinking that, you know, it was my husband at the time. And I thought, well, he was the problem. That's what, what was making it bad. And if I did it with somebody that I trusted, and, you know, somebody that, you know, I look up to, it's, it's going to be fine. And God, no, it wasn't fine. You know, it just fucking made things worse. And, uh, Hmm. I, um, I got to see how I really was on, on, on meth on my own. And I got to actually see how it affected somebody else. Um, and it wasn't good, you know. Um, when I used to do drugs with my husband, it was Well, he was a dick anyway. And I just thought it just, you know, that he was a dick before he did drugs. It didn't matter that, you know, he was a dick on drugs, you know.

Yeah.

But it took, you know, somebody that— it really messed up the whole master-slave relationship that I was in. But I'm still glad that I experienced that because it made me realize that that's not what, what I really want, you know.

So, did I answer your question? Yeah, you did. And if— what are some questions for me to ask in terms of when I'm ready to jump into kink and fetish? And what's the process of doing so to ensure that I don't relapse?

Well, the main thing that you need to try to do is, you know, kink scenes are not just hookups. They are going to involve you getting to know somebody first, which gives you the opportunity to find out if they are— if they use or drink or whatever. Most People that are really into the kink lifestyle or into like BDSM of some sort, they don't want to have their senses dulled when they're doing a kink scene. They want to be fully present for it because some people say it's a spiritual experience, you know. I've got friends that love to, to be flogged or to be whipped. And they say that, that, that takes them to another level, you know, and if they were high or drunk, they wouldn't be able to experience it the same way.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but basically what you've got to have good communication to start everything out. You've really got to kind of vet the people that you're involved with and, um, You know, if drugs is a— drugs and alcohol is a no for you, which I would hope it would be for somebody because, you know, kink play needs to be safe, sane, and consensual. It never needs to be done, you know, when one or other— one or either other of the parties is not able to be safe, sane, and consensual.

So, okay, okay, okay.

And there are communities out there you can meet people. So, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely get into that too. We want to put the, uh, what is it, soberleathermen.com? Is that the website? .org?

soberleathermen.org.

Yeah, .org. Um, we'll put the link in the show notes so that you can go on and, and find meetings Um, I think every day of the week, right? Very often.

Pretty much.

To find your community. Yeah, yeah. So Steve, Sober Steve the Podcast Guy, what was your, uh, experience? Are you— it seems to me that you're just now discovering your, your kink, right? That's what you said.

I'm now, I would say, tapping into it more. Okay. I'm in the process of going through my 4th step again, and this time going a little bit deeper. So I recently was like Writing out my inventory. And like, I remember that my first sexual experience, like fantasy dream that I had as a child, like at the time, I didn't even know it was sexual. But like, it involved me being tied up and restrained, like shirtless, surrounded by like hot, sexy men.

Oh, wow.

It turned me on so much as like a little kid. Like, I didn't even know what was happening around me. But the idea of that was like my first, like sexual fantasy that like sticks in my memory that I remember. Where I like woke up with a raging hard-on, which like at the time was probably not that raging. But, you know, in general, like I was like physically turned on. Like I remember like feeling hot when I woke up, like physically like hot from it all. Like it was, it really turned me on, that idea. And from then, like I've always had that interest in exploring things like leather. I find men in leather sexy.

Mm-hmm.

Or, you know, gear, harnesses. All of that I've always been turned on by, but it was very much, well, that's what we wear on Halloween when, you know, it's something that we, we do regularly.

Yeah.

Because, you know, very much like my, my drinking and my use was like about, I, I realized real quickly in my early 20s, I didn't do it like other people, so I did it privately. So, you know, I would of course like have my like harness in a deep drawer somewhere that I would like whip out sometimes and like take pictures with, or like maybe bring out with a partner in secret. But it was very much something that like I wouldn't talk about with people or let them know, or like be seeking someone that I can really experience it with. Because the only time I would really break down enough to like whip it out was also when I was drunk or under the influence of some sort or another that would lower my inhibitions. So, and I wasn't really doing it with a clear head and doing it with like not knowing what I was doing, not seeking any sort of community or guidance or mentor or doing any research.

Mm-hmm.

And just being like, I'll wear this thing. Or, you know, roleplaying a scenario where like, let's wing it. Like, don't talk about it in advance. Let's just hope this all works out.

Yeah.

You know, it was very risky, like many of my sexual encounters, but it was very, at the same time, still trying to be like, I can't do that because that's wrong. Or like, that's bad. Or like, and I don't want them to know how bad I feel on the inside by acting it on the outside. And so even that, and then early recovery was very much like, I was still like, Well, that's not what normal sober people do, right? I hadn't, you know, because so many of the meetings that I went to, like traditional 12-step meetings, like a lot of times that sex isn't brought up as much. Or like, yeah, you do, it's depending on the meeting. Every meeting's different. And like, that's why I always say keep trying to find one until you find the right one. But yeah, it wasn't until finally, so when I was like complaining, or like not complaining, but I was like lamenting over how Hmm. I wanna find a meeting that's more sex positive, sex focused. Someone recommended, you know, checking out the leather and kink recovery meetings where I ended up meeting Daddy Dale and finding this whole community where I was able to hear them share about how they're able to have this amazing sober sex, which I can already get on board with even without exploring kink. I've had the best sex of my life sober.

Mm-hmm.

Like hands down every single time sober sex is better than the sex that I had when I was like a sloppy-ass drunk. Like, uh, dick works great. Like everything's fabulous and functioning and I'm present and I'm able to connect with people. And, you know, I almost love, like, now in sobriety, I get almost more compliments about my energy than I do about like a physical characteristic because—

Yeah.

That's what it's about now when I'm with people is about exchanging energies and amplifying the energies rather than beforehand it was like I would shut off and disassociate the moment that things got steamy because That's what I did.

Mm-hmm.

And so learning that I can then apply that to all these fantasies and desires that I've always had and, you know, that I wanna be bound or tie someone up or spank them or get spanked, and that I can love it. I can love all of that and that's okay. And it's part of, you know, my God-given sober super sex powers that they talk about in the book and whatever. But, you know, it's part of who I am and for me to be the best sober version of myself. That involves leaning into it and seeing, you know, what else am I interested in and what are my limits with the things that I'm interested in? It's been a journey. It's been a process. Like Daddy Dale said, it's not like you can just hop on an app and find someone to start practicing kink with right away.

Yeah.

But it's been an amazing journey of like learning myself and also setting those expectations where if I'm starting to get to know someone and I'm seeing red flags or hearing things where, you You know, they only text me at night and the, the misspellings or, you know, during conversations when they start capitalizing certain letters that we know are triggering. Like, I know, like, I hit block. Like, I, I don't fuck with that shit.

Yeah.

Because I put on my profile that I'm sober. And I feel like that's been the biggest boon for me is like leading with my recovery and putting my recovery first in all things, including my sex life and including my kink and fetish life where I let the people know that like, I'm sober. You know, even if you drink on the weekends, if I'm coming over for a playdate, I don't want to smell alcohol on your breath. Like, I want you to be present. I'll be present. We'll have the fun. And then when I leave, if you need to have your cocktail, do it. But like, that's not what I'm there for. I'm there to connect with someone who's present. And saying that and communicating that upfront has been really helpful at kind of manifesting it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Some things came up for me. with that, and that is, you know, I hear so many guys— I get messages, I just got one right before this podcast— I'll never have— I'll never enjoy sex again, you know, I'll never have good sex again, not like I had on meth, you know. And it— and what you're saying to me is that you have to change your definition of good sex. Just because you had sex for 48 hours straight does not mean it was good sex.

Yeah, right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you may not even— what you consider good sex on meth probably was not good sex. Yeah, at all. You know?

Yeah, right. It was bug-eyed. Look out the window every 5 seconds. Did somebody— is somebody knocking? You know, let's start, stop, start, stop. I mean, you know, yeah, yeah, it's all that shit.

And for me also, like, back then, it was very much about the quantity More so than the quality. It wasn't a matter of who I was finding; it was that yeah, someone yeah, and then the next one, and then the next one, and using them like I was using everything else that I was using. And so being able to have to like flip it around and be like, it's not about finding the person who can come over fastest, or that it's already rare and ready to go, but finding the person that you want to be with, that like you want to be connect with, and you want to learn more about, and they want to learn more about you. And it's not Just like, yeah, right now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm sorry, go ahead, Daddy Dale, sir. No, I'm gonna say, sir.

I was just gonna say, you know, Steve keeps referring to the energy, you know, that, that's what it really is all about. It is, you know, the energy and the power exchange is what makes the scene so much fun.

So yeah.

Yeah.

And also the communication is huge for me, and I love that even more so than beyond just the great sober sex I was having before exploring my leather and kink fetishes. The communication was better because I used words and I wasn't drunk, but also learning to be also more comfortable talking about my wants and needs and desires and being able to say yes and to say no. And so that when I agree with something, it's not something that they like, but also as we're going through Through the continuing check-ins, I found like that's almost the biggest turn-on for me is like right now the person that I'm getting kinky with has like amazing communication where I always know where they're at, they always know where I'm at, like both in the bedroom and out of the bedroom. Just the communication is great and that makes the connection that we have better, it makes the sex better. But it all starts with being able to talk about it, and talking about sex was something I wasn't able to do. When I was having the sex before, I was able to do things, but I wasn't able to talk about them with someone. I wouldn't talk with you about what the acts I was doing back when I was drinking or using. I would keep it a secret because I was feeling shame over it. But now that I'm able to feel proud of what I'm doing and my experiences that I'm living, it makes it a lot more comfortable talking about it with potential partners, and that improves it tremendously.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what I'm hearing is, and I think the inhibiting factor for a lot of men is, this takes some fucking work. Right? This, this takes some time, time, patience, work. You have to get to know the person. And in this world, in this world of picking up your phone and getting on Grindr and being in somebody's bed in 10 minutes, you know, that doesn't sound too fun to put work in.

Yeah. But one thing that I really loved from our last conversation that like stuck with me was when we were comparing it to oftentimes I would hop on the apps because I had an itch that I needed to scratch. So Finding those quick hookups would really scratch that itch. But the issue with that is, like we mentioned, I'd want the other one real soon because I just, you know, the moment you scratch one itch, another one pops up on your leg.

Yeah.

Or you have a different kind of itch that needs scratching all of a sudden. But whenever I'm able to really find that right partner that I'm able to communicate with and it's safe, sane, and consensual, after I'm done with that, that's like getting a deep tissue massage of sex where I, that itch is not only scratched, but I am satiated for not just minutes or hours. But oftentimes like days at a time because I, that exchange was so fulfilling because it was worth it. Like it was worth the wait. It's that whole quantity over quality, which we're not really used to as alcoholics and addicts where the answer normally is more.

Right.

But knowing that we're now trying to sexually like find the right person rather than the next person is definitely a change from what we might've been used to beforehand.

Yeah. Yeah. Love that. I love that. Um, so can you talk— walk us through, Daddy Dale or Steve, um, when you say a scene, like, what is that? What does that mean, a scene? Um, yeah, let's go there. What is that? What is that? And then you, you introduced yourself as what, Dom Switch Pig? There's another word.

A Dom Switch Leather Pig.

Okay, can you walk us through what is that? What is it? What is a domme first?

Domme is— well, I'm the dominant one in the situation. Typically, most people think top bottom, but I take top to the extreme. Yeah.

So, okay, can you be a domme bottom? Because I have— I was labeled that once, back in the day. Yes.

And you could find yourself with a sub top where all they want to do is just lay there.

So yeah, yeah.

Where you can be a dom or a sub and a top or a bottom. And it can be the same, but it can be different as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Switch. Switch is not the same thing as being versatile, right? Switch is a role.

It's kind of the same way with top and bottom. Versatile is the middle. Of sorts. If you're dom or sub, switch is kind of the middle of sorts. Except what I love about switch and like the identity for that is there's so many times that guys on their profile say they're versatile and you're like, great, so you want to flip? And they're like, no, I bottom 90% of the time. And I'm like, girl, you are not versatile.

Right, exactly.

A bottom who occasionally will return the favor because you've been guilted into it.

Like, yeah, yeah.

But that's not what I am like, where it could be depending on the day and the person and the vibe. Like, it could be one or the other, or it could be both. It just depends. And I've always been kind of like a unicorn in a lot of like the circles I'm in where they're like, no, like, you're either one or the other. And I'm always like, both. So finding that in the leather and kink community that oftentimes when people are switches, they're also truly versatile rather than the 90-10% versatile. It's been also—

yeah. Yeah, everybody knows on those apps, if you see versatile, it means they're just a bottom.

They're just the bottom. Exactly.

Yep.

I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to call myself a power verse back, back in the day too. Yeah. Okay, so Dom, we got, um, Switch, we got Leather, we know Pig.

Yeah.

What, what makes you a Pig?

Well, I'm a Pig because, um, I like, well, piss, body scents. Okay, not so much scat, even though I've done that before when I was a slave. I have, I have done, I've done scat.

Okay.

But like right now, I've got this boy that he wants, not Steve. But he wants, he wants a, a daddy that's, you know, willing to give him scat and—

Oh, okay.

You know, so.

So you do that for him?

I, well, we're in talks about that. We're in talks about—

Okay.

So yeah, it's, it's out there, but I'm not sure what's really gonna happen with it. Yeah. Yeah.

He's not ready to have audio proof that he's committed to this endeavor yet. He's still weighing the pros and cons and using the beauty of communication to negotiate.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There you go. Yes. Thank you.

So how long does a negotiation last in terms of, you know, I meet, I meet you, wherever, maybe on a Zoom meeting or something. I'm Dom, you're sub. How, what, how long does the negotiation usually last in terms of before a scene happens?

Well, that's, that's kind of up to the chemistry between the people, I guess. Yeah. If there's good chemistry— go ahead.

No, you were going. Sorry.

If there's good chemistry, it could be like, it could be pretty fast or, you know, there's also, you may have to take into account geographic location in some instances, you know, because you may not find somebody like right next to you, you know, 5 minutes down the road that's into what you're into.

So yeah, yeah, yeah. What were you gonna say, Steve?

I was gonna say, agree. Like, it can be as quick as let's meet for coffee, and then like halfway through the coffee, you're like, all right, I'm ready, let's go back to my place.

Okay, okay.

Or it could be like, uh, you go home and you digest it, you think on it, and then maybe plan something else. But I've also had it where, you know, using apps and texting and then, you know, spending some time where it wasn't necessarily in person meeting them, but I did spend a few days talking about somewhat about, you know, what their interests are and what their desires were and what mine were. And then I was able to phone a friend and ask Daddy Dale for some help on channeling more of my dominant side that I'm getting used to tapping into.

Okay.

A lot. And getting into like him explaining more of the submissive mindset of a houseboy and how that all works and gave me some great, like, so like over the time though, even though like the first time we met face to face, it wasn't face to face. I walked in and he was already on all fours.

Oh.

But like, I knew that that's what was gonna happen. I knew what he would be wearing with it. He knew when I came what would happen, cuz we talked it all out. So even though we didn't meet face to face, we spent a lot of time talking out what would happen from like the moment that I arrived to the moment that I arrived. And like from there, it pretty much like throughout the process, we would check in and make sure that things were still going according to plan and they were. And it was cool and it was fun, but it was also like really hot because we had that plan beforehand, even if it wasn't over coffee, because I'd love to have that conversation in a Starbucks. So like, I knew what was going in because the communication had occurred in another way.

Okay, so this was a submissive houseboy. So I mean, are there, I guess, different categories of I'm a submissive this, I'm a submissive that?

Oh God. Yeah.

I think there's a million different words for everything. And it's one of those things where if you can think of a kink that doesn't have a word for it yet, like, I bet you if you Google it or search hard enough, you'll find that it exists.

Yeah.

Uh, but you know, at the end of the day, like, we can go into every billion definitions and I think we would be here all night because there's a lot of kinks and fetishes. But that's what I love about it is there's like, you would think that just because I'm kinky and I meet someone else who's also kinky, that we're gonna have similar kinks. But the number of times that they're like into things that are hard nos for me, or vice versa, like it doesn't always work out that way. So it is a, it's a journey.

Yes, it is.

I mean, isn't kinky a relative word? Because, you know, so I, it's, I'm in my first relationship in 6 years of sobriety. And then so, and I haven't been in a relationship, so this is my first relationship in 9 years, I guess. Um, kinky to me used to be if, if I wore anything leather, like I wore a leather hat, ooh, I'm being kinky, you know. But then somebody's getting— they're being piggy and flogged and, you know, all this stuff and all that kind of stuff, right?

And so yeah, there's definitely different levels of kink, but at, I, I forget the exact percentage, but something like 60% of people have kinks, yet kink is defined as having an abnormal sexual desire. So if 60% of the world's population has a kink, then who is going around determining what is a normal sexual desire? It's a whole bunch of old white men whose wives don't put out, that don't even know what gay sex is like, that decided this centuries ago. So.

Yeah.

Like kinky is a relative term, especially as people are becoming more sexually aware or comfortable talking about it.

Yeah.

But it can be, as you can call yourself kinky if all you do is, you know, the one special thing that like you find risqué, or, you know, if your thing is just water sports, you can just be water sports and be kinky and not have to go on this whole—

Okay.

That's the one kink you really wanna go down the rabbit hole on.

Okay.

And, and still be, it's not like there's a definition of kinky other than when you kind of decide like this is me being kinky, in my experience. What do you think, Dale?

I agree with you completely. Good, good boy. Um, you know, like, to me, to me, like, I don't really think of leather being kinky. For me, for me, it's, it's my, it's a A lifestyle, and that's part of who I am, you know. Um, hmm. But, uh, it's different from person to person, you know. I mean, some people, like Steve said, you know, some people think, you know, he, he wore boots while he fucked me, that was kinky, you know. And to me, that's just a normal day. You know, that's just regular sex.

Tuesday.

So yeah, I mean, I mean, and some people like are obsessed with toys. You know, that could be their, their kink. And even within toys, you've got all these different things. You've got sounding, you've got pumping, You've got all this kind of stuff. And it's one person's kink is another person's just, you know, Tuesday, like you said.

So, yeah, yeah. What does a check-in look like? So, you know, I've heard people say, you know, it's consensual, right? But you're checking in during the scene. right, to make sure that it's going the right way or to script, right?

Yeah.

Uh, what does this— what does a check-in look like? And, and the reason I'm asking is, so my coming out of crystal meth, I had erectile dysfunction, um, for most of my sobriety. Um, and I took, you know, I could take pills, and I— and so I started doing all the things that I preach to them: mindful masturbation, semen retention, sexual transmutation, Meditation, all that stuff. And, and it was starting to work. But what really, what really got me going was, like I said, with this, with my new partner. Um, it was when we— if there's, if there's any kind of— for me, like, if there's any kind of change or talking, it seems to interrupt my brain-to-dick connection. You know, and I won't get— and I, you know, I'll have to stop because I'm not hard anymore. So what does a check-in look like that keeps the momentum going?

Do you want me to take— okay, I'll take this one. So basically, you know, if for me being the daddy or the sir, it would— if I've got, let's see, a boy down licking my boots, you know, It's just encouraging the situation and without being too obvious, just, you know, slipping in, you know, are you enjoying that, boy? Is that what you want? You know, depending, you know, something just very, very subtle like that.

Okay.

You know, and sometimes if, if you've got that good, that good chemistry and that rapport, you know, they may go, well, yeah, step on my nuts, please, you know, and—

Okay.

I keep going, you know. It's, it's making sure you can, you can read off of the person if they're having a good time. But sometimes you can extract more information about what else, you know, maybe a little bit further you want to go. Um, or you may need to slow it down a little bit. They're not quite ready to have their nuts stepped on yet, you know, or something like that.

Yeah.

Uh, but they're perfectly fine with humping their dick against my boot. You know, for a while.

So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's just getting a feel for what your other— what your partner in the situation is getting off on, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, for me, a lot of times it can be as simple as, like you said, like, are you ready for this? So like, if we've talked about this next thing that's going to happen, I'm not just gonna go Like, you know, even though I told you beforehand when I got there at a certain point I was gonna put it in, I'm not just gonna put it in without saying like, are you ready for this? And then you kind of get that like yes check-in that they're ready to move on to the next part of what you had talked about doing.

Okay.

Um, you know, or if along the way like I feel inspired, you know, saying, would you be open to trying this? And, you know, if it's yes, great. If they say like no or not right now, or I don't take it personally. I know that it's not me. It's like, we're not there yet. And so I just move on to what was what we were enjoying.

Okay. Yeah, I like that too, that you've talked about it beforehand, right? Not to say that you have to be limited to that, right?

Yeah.

But that really helps. You know, you're writing the scene.

Exactly. And you can— I mean, it's not quite as formal as Steve's putting it, making it sound. It may be something more like, you know, you slip off your jock and you're You know, you're like, hey, you know, do you want me to shove this in your mouth? Or, you know, so, you know, start just— it, it flows with the— it flows with the scene, basically. Yeah.

Okay.

Because you will get— you'll get in a mindset.

Yeah.

What were you saying, Steve?

I was just thinking, and like, it also comes with experience, not only just like yourself doing it more often with different people, but also getting to know the same person as well. I know that the first time it always takes a little bit more communication and checking in. Then once you kind of get to know the person better, it can almost be just the look that, you know, that they get in their eyes when they're ready for more. They want it that way or this.

Yeah.

So that's the also beauty of like having play partners that you get to play with on a more regular basis rather than just finding that random itch getting scratched is that when you find this person, then you have this connection, you're that much more likely to be like, all right, let's play again and again and again.

Yeah.

And you get more comfortable with each other and you get to push each other's boundaries the more you get to, to play. So I started off with like my most recent friend, like having vanilla sex and like we've kind of been evolving from there. But like we knew right from the start, like the goal was kink, but we That's what we just started with, just because that's what vibed for us when we first got there. It wasn't right jumping right to me wearing this for him like I did earlier.

Oh, I love that. Well, good for you. Okay, well, this is exciting. And so I wanted to, um, where I wanted to before we go here, um, read some words off to you 2, and you help us understand. I mean, you've already helped us understand some, but this little glossary I have found that I was looking at, um, maybe you can help us, uh, define some of these things. Um, okay, so what is— have you heard of figging?

No.

Figging?

No.

No.

Figging. Okay, will you insert a piece of ginger or hot chili pepper into your anus for the burning sensation?

Okay, not sound like something for me. Yeah, I don't even have peppers in my mouth directly like that.

Now I have, I have had somebody put a popsicle up mine and then eat the popsicle out of it.

Okay.

Yeah.

That feel— did that feel good?

It was actually pretty— it was pretty Pretty good. Yeah, yeah, it was nice.

How about queening?

Where did you get this glossary?

I don't know, I just found it. Queening is face sitting.

Oh, I mean, yeah, I've done that. Yeah, I call that queening. I would, I would think with us it'd be like kinging.

Yeah, yeah, I just I don't know why they would call queening it.

Queening.

No, sitting down like a queen, like a lady.

I think I got the wrong list, huh? Well, we know— I think I know what cuckold is. Cuckold is— is that something that's considered— it's a fetish, right?

When you like being the, like, the one watching or the one—

yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's, yeah. I don't know a whole lot of cuckolds, but I've actually done that.

Yeah, I have done a cuckold. Like a couple had me come in and I fucked one of the husbands in front of the other husband. I did do that. I will say that was, that wasn't even high on meth on that time. So that, I guess that is cuckolding. Um, okay, what are some words— all these words that I'm looking at— what is— how about a safe word? Is there a safe word that you have that you agree on when you do a scene?

Depends on the person. Yeah, what are some ones that I, I've always been a fan of? Like the, the red, green, yellow, mostly just using like yellow and red for like yellow being like warning, you're getting close to it being too much, and like red being like Oh, okay. But what about you, Daddy Dale?

Um, now I actually had to learn hand signals when I was a slave because, you know, I would, uh, I would usually— at one point I was in a straitjacket. So yeah.

Okay, can you define what a slave is?

Yes. All right, so In Dom and submissive roles, probably the more common one is like a sir and a daddy is the Dom. And then they will have a boy. That's you. And that's usually what it is. And that the boy is submissive. And, you know, they They interact in that way. But when you go into a master-slave situation, people take that very, very literally. Like, I had a contract with my master as to what I would and would not do with him.

Hmm.

And we, we talked about it beforehand, and it was actually a printed-out contract, and I signed it, and I had a copy, and he had a copy.

Wow.

So, and pretty much anything that was on the contract could happen at any time. But in a master-slave situation, there's usually not the discussion beforehand about what's going to happen. Um, the slave just agrees that they are going to be willing to, you know, do whatever their master wants. But it is You know, kind of, it's laid out beforehand in your contract with your master. Depending on the type of master you have, you know, they may or may not ask your opinion on things. Whereas like a daddy or a sir is going to, you know, ask the boy what they, they want. And, you know, They may— the boy may get what he wants, and sometimes the boy may not, but it's never going to just be an absolute forced-upon-him situation. Like, there is even— I think they're called the Boys— there's the Boys' Bill of Rights that is out. You can Google that, and it is, you know—

Interesting.

Kind of saying that, you know, you're just not a piece of meat.

Yeah, I was gonna say, I definitely vibe with the whole boy thing more. The idea of someone trying to be a master, I think, would turn me into a brat. And that's not normally my gut reaction. But I'm like, no one's telling me what to do without some room for compromise. Like, it's hot. Yeah, I know what to do. But if it's a hard no, I want to be able to talk my way out of it with my charm.

Yeah.

Right, right, right, right. Yeah, I mean, I guess, is it for someone to agree to do whatever the master says no matter what? I mean, is that, is that just part of their arousal template? To be at the mercy of someone else?

They probably get off on either the being totally submissive to someone else, Or the fact of whatever they— they're— they need to please this person no matter what. And pleasing that person is what, you know, basically is almost their fetish, you know. Super codependent. Okay, super codependent.

Yeah, right there. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you— okay, here's another word. Do you two Participate in aftercare?

Yes. That's the best part.

I haven't gotten as intense. I was gonna say I haven't gotten as intense where I've required too much aftercare. They've required too much aftercare. But I do enjoy the whole process of like, that it's not just like when you're done with the sex act that you're done, but that there is like that care afterwards or that connection afterwards or that, you know, If it involved a lot of spanking, you know, making sure that they're okay or like rubbing the area and making it feel good and taking care of, you know, them afterwards.

Okay.

Or being taken care of afterwards is definitely like a part of the fun as well. Rather than like, again, like back in the day on the green apps, like the moment we were done, it was like, bye.

Yeah.

But now that like you get the aftercare, you get to go deeper. You also get that kind of coming out of that deepness. with the aftercare so that you leave without that, like, sudden transition.

Mm-hmm.

You can also kind of find out what really, really worked if you couldn't tell what was mediocre, what was good. You know, there's a little bit of, you know, that that goes on afterwards. Aftercare is real big with BDSM, especially, you know, if you're in a situation where you're like being whipped or flogged, or, you know, you're into pain play or something like that, you know, you want to make sure that your partner is, you know, okay afterwards.

Okay. Because it's like a post, post-assessment, kind of. Yeah.

Yeah, in a way. Yeah. But it's also another way to look after yourself. Yeah, exactly. And it's also a way to kind of bond too, you know. A lot of times it's just— I like it for the boy to just kind of like snuggle up next to me, lay his head on my chest, and just kind of, you know, just be there together for a minute, you know.

It's nice. That's nice.

I'm a caring daddy. I'm a good sir. I'm a good sir. I'm a good daddy.

So what's the difference between a daddy and a sir?

Sirs are going to take things a little bit more formal than a daddy would be. Like if I'm a sir and a boy, you know, depending on the extent that, you know, we're going into, let's say, if we're a sir and a boy, you know, and it's, it's a leather situation, which is what it would be for me. Like, if I go to— if we go out to an event together, and I'm the sir, and I've got a boy with me, my boy is going to open the door for me at all times.

Okay.

The boy walks slightly behind me and to the left. Uh, the boy will usually be collared, you know, and wear my collar and my, my, my lock. And, uh, they are there to just kind of, uh, you know, they'll go get, you know, drinks for me, non-alcoholic of course.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you know, and they have to ask permission if they want to do something with somebody else. If it's one of those type of scenes. So yeah, like if you're, if you're at your play party or anything, and I'm, I've got my boy with me, he would have to ask permission before he played with somebody else.

Okay, so these roles happen outside of the bedroom, apparently, too, then you have scenes wherever you are together. Is this right?

Yes. Sometimes. Yes. Yep.

Okay.

Even, I mean, if you, if you want to be like, I know there, there are some leather guys that, you know, they take it, it's, it's their, their life, you know. And if you sign on and you agree to be a boy and you get collared by them, you know, you know, at all times that you're opening your door, opening the door for your your sir, or, you know, you get out of the car first and you go around and open his door for him. And, you know, he gets out. It just— those are basically what are called protocols in the leather community. And it is up to each sir or daddy as to how stringently he enforces the protocols.

Okay.

Or if he even wants you to be involved, you know, if you want to enforce protocols.

So.

Okay.

Yeah, because I'm the daddy in our— in this relationship, but I open his door for him.

You're a polite daddy. So yeah, you're not really following the whole—

Probably.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how I'm going to fit into any of this, but, um, Yeah, that's fun.

It's not a matter of— beauty of it is that I was gonna say, it's not a matter of fitting in. It's deciding what works for you, you know, you and your partners.

So yeah.

Yeah, same. I was gonna say, don't try and fit in. If you're the daddy who holds the door before you slam his head into the pillow, that's okay. Yeah, that could be What Daddy Dallas is like.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, that is what— that's Daddy Dallas.

I had a feeling.

Yeah, you did. Yeah, good. I love it. Um, okay, well, what have I not asked that's important for us to know? Um, I— before you, before you answer that, I want to answer— I'm going to answer my own question in that If you're listening, you're probably a former meth addict or you're struggling with meth now. I, I want to show you that there is hope for you, that you're not sexually damaged, that you can rebuild. And now it, it took me quite a few years, um, to get here, but even, even, you know, my parts started to work again. And, um, I'm enjoying— I'm, I mean, I feel like I am 14 again. just rediscovering what I like, what feels good, you know. Like, even— like, even— not— I won't get into it, but like, even pressure on my chest, on my pec, you know, from, from him on his palm, like, almost gave me an orgasm, you know. Like, I didn't know that that was something that I would like. But, but like you're saying, it's also consensual. Like, I would say, hey, I just— wait a minute, I like that. Can you do that more?

Yeah.

You know. And so It— there is hope for you. You can enjoy sex again. But the first step is to stop saying, I can't have sober sex anymore, or I'm not going to enjoy sober sex anymore. First, you have to stop saying that, but open your mind to it. And so here's groups of people, groups of sober men who are loving this, and it's a whole community, and they're out here waiting for you. So I just want to say that first, and there is hope. Hang on. And but But guess what? It's going to take time, patience, and work and consistency.

Just like recovery.

Just like recovery.

Exactly. Exactly. It doesn't— it's not a quick fix, you know?

No, no, no, it isn't. It is not. So what have I missed? What have I not asked? Do we need to have Steve do a twirl? Or what is— what's missing from this podcast that we should add?

Fabulous questions and leaves more room where if listeners have a question we didn't ask, I'm sure they could send it in and you will do it. We'll do this again.

That means a lot. That means a lot coming from you, Stibber Steve, the podcast professional, the certified podcast coach, by the way. Growth coach. Exactly. Yes, yes. Okay.

We gotta do it again so I can wear my chaps for y'all.

So yeah, yeah, maybe I'll have something by then. Something.

I don't know, maybe harness jock, maybe a little harness jock combo like Sober Steve's got on.

I couldn't wear that. I don't think I could pull it off like Steve can.

I think that you can. You just don't have the confidence to know that you can pull it off the way that everyone around you says, damn, Daddy, you can pull it off.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, that is an issue, um, as I'm building my confidence, is asking, hey, can I do this? And getting a no still feels like a, like a personal rejection for me. So that is something that I, I do need to— and you know my confidence is in myself, um, I, I'm, I'm just hoping as it, as I go through this new phase of my recovery, this sexual phase, that my confidence will, will continue to grow in that sense too. But it does feel personal when the answer is no for me.

Yeah, I think though, like learning, especially exploring kink, that it takes time to find the right person. It makes when you don't find the right person a lot easier to identify. Similarly, like if you have this fantasy in your head of what your ideal sex partner looks like to you right now, Know that it can always change and grow and evolve, but like write it all out so that when you first go out on these adventures where you're downloading an app or going on a date, like if you forget cuz you get distracted, like that, that's a hard no for you. Or that's not something that your ideal partner's gonna have. Like it's something that like you can look back and be like, okay, this is something that I need to think through myself. Because Mm-hmm. I know like for me as well, like if you're with like an attractive guy who's telling you nice things, it's very easy to kind of lose that focus that you might have had when you were meditating on your own.

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

You're right.

Well, you're right.

The other thing too is, it may not just be one individual person. You may have multiple play partners. Like, I've got a friend that I have a great time with, but he is just a fisting bottom. That's, that's pretty much all he wants to do is, you know, he's a, he's good at it. And it's lots of fun. But you know, there are other things that I enjoy doing.

And so, so fisting, by the way, you stick in your fist in someone's anus, right? Exactly.

Yes.

But you have to know what you're doing for that. As far as being a fister, right? I mean, don't you have to have some kind of knowledge?

I mean, I don't know, but either you need to have some knowledge or the person you're with needs to have some knowledge. Like, yeah, my friend that I play with, great for—

Yeah, all kinks, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I wouldn't recommend trying to flog somebody on the first, uh, get-together, you know, especially just because they want to be flogged, you know.

So yeah, noted, noted. I will not try to flog. Okay, thank you gentlemen so much. This was fun and informational, and I hope inspirational for the listeners.

Yeah, go out there and have awesome sober sex. Fabulous, trust us.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

Yeah. If you have questions for these gentlemen or questions in general about kinks, you can post them on— you can post them on YouTube or Spotify, or you can email them in to me. We're going to put the contact information for you to— for both of these gentlemen in the show notes if you want to contact them. If you want to get involved in our community, we have a Facebook group. It's called The Aftermath. community on Facebook. We have a website, aftermath.net, that you can go on there and submit your questions and comments as well. Look forward to hearing from you. I would also like— love for you to share this podcast on your social media and attach a picture of you in your best kink or leather outfit. I would love to see that.

Oh yeah.

Okay, if that's it, I will see you all on the next one.

Bye, thank you.

Goodbye, y'all.