Episode 10 - Athol Hann - Improving the Process Through Education & Innovation

Thank you for joining me for another episode of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this week's guest, Athol Han. Athol is a nurse educator, critical care nurse, and emergency nurse with over 10 years experience in the acute healthcare system. He's also the founder of the F-Words app and creator of the digital course Burnout No More, with a passion for workplace wellbeing, high-performance healthcare, and improved team cohesion. So let's welcome Athol to the show. Welcome to the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast, brought to you by The Nurse Speak, a show where we rally some of our nation's greatest nurse leaders educators, experts, and advocates to tackle some of our greatest challenges that the nursing profession faces. My name is Damion Jenkins, and I'm your host for this show. So sit back, relax, and get ready to learn that nurses can do anything. Okay, thank you, Athol, for being on the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast. Why don't you just take a moment and introduce yourself to the listeners? Let them know a little bit about where you started in your nursing career and where you are today.

Thanks for having me on, Damion Jenkins. Um, yeah, my name's Athol, uh, I'm a registered nurse right 12— last part— last 12 years. Started off doing a mixture of nursing and general medical, aged care, neurosurgical, orthopaedics, and oncology. I then transitioned into intensive care and then really enjoyed that. Also found some challenges in that space and have stayed in and out of emergency and intensive care for the last 7, 8 years. And then nursing's taken me right around the country of Australia, um, doing travel nursing, agency nursing, and then, um, and now I've been work— now I'm working as an educator on a medical ward, um, and working in patient safety and also working in emergency department. So feeling like filling a lot of buckets, um, yeah. And so that's, that's, that's where I'm sitting in the nursing world at the moment.

Ah, awesome. So it sounds like you're just like the rest of us out there who have had about 10 or so years of experience. Um, we do get around because there's a lot of different different buckets to fill in nursing, as you have seen in your own career. And so it sounds like you stayed pretty much in the critical care, kind of emergency medicine for the, for the most part, and now you're serving as an educator in medical surgical ward, is that correct?

Yeah, it's a, it's a general medical ward. And, um, a funny story how I got in there. I, I have a mate, one of my good mates, he's a nurse unit manager, and, um, I've been in a bit of a transition period with something, you know, with my business outside of nursing, and he was twisting my arm regularly, and he was pushing me, pushing me to apply for the— this temporary position. And yeah, so that's how I ended up there. I never— I never seen myself as an educator on, on the general medical ward, but you know, my, my past experience on a medical ward and my aged care experience and all these experiences in the past have really helped and supported me to, to make this transition.

Awesome. And I'm sure your experience and your insights from the different specialties in, in nursing also translate into the general medicine ward. I'm sure the nurses that you're impacting on a daily basis is definitely appreciating you being there and providing that support, uh, cuz we all know we need the additional support. Now you mentioned just briefly your business outside of nursing. Um, I'm sure listeners are wondering what you mean by that as well. So if just briefly, what do you mean by your business outside of nursing?

Yeah, fantastic. And thanks for the question. So yeah, last year I— well, over the last 2 or 3 years I've been on this search of, you know, how can we do better in healthcare? And I guess I've just been asking that question regularly throughout my career. You know, I've been asking that why. I've always asked why, to the detriment of some, you know, not everyone enjoys that question, but I always like asking that question. You know, I like asking that. Not everyone loves hearing it, but not everyone.

Yeah, not everyone is prepared to answer that question. I think, I think where that, that's where a lot of the discourse comes from is they're not ready to answer that question, nor do they want to go down that road because it's something that they are either ignoring or they just simply don't know because it's too complex of a question, right? So, all right, so continue.

Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. We're on the same wavelength there. So yeah, so I've been asked that question and then about 4 years ago I went to this volunteering event and I just went along because I was interested and then I ended up meeting a developer based out of Sydney here in Australia and we started talking about ideas and concepts and, you know, some things that are improvements and he said, "Oh, I reckon you've got something there." And so I started to work with him on a prototype That led into another prototype and then finally after an accelerator program and a bit more investigation, I have ended up releasing an application to nurses here in Australia and it's really focused around how can we improve our lives as shift workers, you know, how can we reduce some of that stress that we inherently have every day. And on the back end of that, of asking nurses, you know, what else is there, what else, you know, can we do to start to, you know, help us to perform better and live better lives, I've then we then developed a course around burnout and how we can, you know, use education and use online learning just, you know, like we do with many other things to level it up and start to understand, you know, what's important to us, what really drives us as people so we can then keep coming back to work and not go through those perils of burnout. And so, yeah, those are my two active pursuits at the moment. And, you know, I love it every minute.

Well, I just want to clarify for not only the listeners but also for yourself. You mentioned this is your business outside of nursing, but, um, I just want to let you know that it's still nursing even though you're seeking an entrepreneurial route, you know, not your traditional bedside or healthcare organization type role. You're still using your nursing license, your nursing knowledge, your nursing skill to apply to the products and services that you're providing through your application and your online course. And so, you know, I really— another kind of milestone of this nursing podcast is that nurses can do anything, right? So I really want to make sure that you understand that right here, right now, and that everyone else listening also understands that, that you wouldn't have been able to design what you've designed or created what you've created without your nursing knowledge or expertise. So you're very much still in the nursing profession when you're doing things that fall outside of your traditional hospital or institutional role. Okay, so keep up that. So that's really awesome. So, okay, so you, you talked about burnout a little bit. You talked about the stresses of being shift workers. You talked about, you know, streamlining these processes so that we can better manage this stress that we have as being, you know, these providers, these people who are always on the go because we're constantly seeking out to meet the needs of other individuals. So what was it that you saw in your own experience that led you to pursue these types of solutions?

I think, you know, it's not one, one problem, or it's not one thing that really led me to go, I need to develop an app or I need to develop a course. I think it's more around I'm driven for impact. I really, you know, want to impact other people's lives and I want to help other people and I contribute. It's a lot of what drives me as a clinical nurse as well, and I've just applied that to the outside, this search for this why question on how we can do better and how can we, you know, perform better as nurses and look after each other better. So there's a myriad of problems, and as you would know, Damion, there's a massive amount of individual problems, little problems, big problems. And so, you know, I guess each of these solutions is sort of touching on many of the problems that we face as shift workers, you know, the changing times. You know, shift work is really difficult. And I'm reading a book at the moment called While We Sleep by Matthew Walker, and it's, it's really, it's, you know, it's, it's an interesting book on sleep, you know. It's not a pillar we obviously can maintain as shift workers. So there's a lot of other— there's a lot of problems around that. And then in the team environment, there's the environmental aspects, then there's the individual aspects. So there's lots of aspects around this. And, you know, the technology is one bridging gap where we can start to mould solutions that can fit into a lot of these problems. And so the app really has been born off how can we support the individual to not only look after themselves around shift work, but how can we bring the team together and how can we, you know, communicate well? How can we have a common voice with a lot of the challenges that we face? So we can start to, you know, build this swell of, you know, conversation and voice that's on the shift every day talking about the problems but talking about solutions as well. So that's where the apps come from. And the course is really near and dear to my heart because I went through burnout pretty severely back in 2014. I only come out of it probably, you know, 2017, you know, it lasted a long time. And so the course is really built off these, the strategies and what I did to get through it. And, you know, some work around behavior design and behavior change as well. So I think is really where these solutions have come from is the real fire in the belly to create change.

Right. So, yeah. So, I mean, you just said that you didn't see one particular thing that led to you, but it sounds like you did. You went through burnout yourself. You, you personally suffered with burnout and you just told me from 2014 to 2017. Right. So that's 3 years that it took you to kind of get through that, to go through the different motions and deal with the PTSD of the burnout, all of the traumas that you've accumulated along the way. 'Cause that's something that people who are not nurses don't understand, that nurses pick up a lot of traumas when we're caring for individuals, whether it's we're witnessing the death of an individual, whether it's we're being assaulted by individuals, whether we're being assaulted by people who aren't even our family, not even our patients, it could be family members or even coworkers sometimes. So there's a lot of traumas that we pick up along the way. And if we don't have the opportunity process it and cope appropriately, if we're not given the resources to have time to manage that, if we're not given adequate paid time off, if we're not being provided with adequate mental support, this could be— it could build up on a person really quickly and shut them down and make us even question, is it even worth it? Is it even worth putting ourselves on the line to help others when it's constantly just fight or flight. It's always fight or flight. It's never a day where I get to come in and, you know, have a bunch of patients that I educate and they get better and they leave, and then I have a few minutes to say, wow, I'm so happy that I was able to use my skill set to help these individuals. It doesn't feel like that for most of us out there. Um, so yeah, so that's the catalyst. I can see right there that that's the catalyst. It's similar for me. Why I got into nursing education. Same thing, I wanna make impact, I wanna make a change, but for me it was, I suffered. I was the one at the end of the suffering, and then I took note of everyone else also suffering right along with me. And so I thought to myself, well, how can the process be improved? How can we educate better? How can we empower our nurses to be more equipped to handle these situations? Through the power of knowledge, through the power of education and training. And so that's why I went in to become a nurse educator. And same thing with you, you're an educator now because you can see that you can make far greater impact when you're training other nurses to act the way that you know works best. You know, you went through all the trials and tribulations, and now you can take your experience and empower others with the same experience and knowledge so that they don't necessarily have to go through the pain and suffering, and they can just go in and do what they need to do, recuperate, and come back and keep fighting the good fight. So this is amazing. So it sounds like you're doing some really awesome work. So let's talk a little bit about the app, because you said it's really about kind of giving you an opportunity to communicate, debrief. There's a lot of different thing. Uh, really it sounds like an opportunity for teams to streamline the process that goes beyond just your typical healthcare documentation, your typical shift report type situation. So let's talk a little bit about this app that you've created.

Yeah, so the application is really around— so it's really around the fundamentals of teamwork, you know, leadership, pair, you know, breaks, um, looking after our buddies, you know, sharing bits of information that can support others' day, connecting the people on the floor with the management and then also the people above management and executive roles. And so it's really around this nice, how can we communicate and bring values aligned? And so that's part of the communication aspect of the application. And there's also ability to debrief and to operate mini debriefs within your team. So if you've got an incident, let's say there's 5 people that's been involved, you can put people into an online environment that's controlled and monitored by a leadership or someone who's, you know, a psychologist, someone who's trained in operating around that and providing an alternative means to discussing the clinical incident. That communication can then be removed if need be or saved. So that's, you know, it's providing another solution to standing around in a circle and talking about a traumatic event. And what, you know, it's really touching on how can we bring the team together? You know, it's, It's really stressful working on the floor and, you know, it's these micro stresses. And this is what I see for burnout, Damion, is it's not one big event. A lot of time one big event may break the camel. You know, it's one big event might, you know, put you into, you know, a few weeks off or a month off or, you know, you want to leave. But it's always micro stresses that add up daily or over a year that just then we try to— what it really is trying to do is trying to reduce some of those micro stresses that we experience every day.

Right. Awesome. So this sounds like this app can be utilized by entire healthcare systems or entire interdisciplinary teams, correct? Is that how you imagine this app be utilized?

Yes, yes, you are, you are correct. And that's, that's the angle. And that's the vision for the application is that whole teams can use it. And, you know, we are starting with the nursing world, but really, I'd like to incorporate everyone in the team. That's the administration staff, the medical doctors, that's the physiotherapists, everyone who's got a key part in the team. Because if we want good outcomes, if we want to change that environment, we want to change cultures, everyone's got to be involved. And the cleaner, I love cleaners. I love people. I love talking to them because they've got such wisdom and they've got such insights around you. They see things that you don't see. Your head's very full. So I love talking to them. And they give you all sorts of insights and information, especially if you're trying to manage multiple patients on a ward or what you're trying to do. Yeah, the idea is for a whole team in an organization, then a whole organization to utilize the application.

Awesome. So let me ask you, is there any talk or any examples of how the patient or the family of the patient also have access to this same application? Or is it designed specifically for the healthcare providers alone?

I love that question, Damion, because yes, yes, there is an element where we want to include the patient and the patient family. And that is true. How do we measure performance? You know, how do we measure that we're doing really well every day? You know, and, you know, a lot of the time is patient feedback. You know, are they enjoying the experience that they're having? You know, even if it's busy, even if they've been waiting 5 hours for an X-ray, like, even if it's really busy, but if they— if you've communicated well to them, if you've explained to them, you know, if you've alleviated their pain, their anxieties, their concerns, then a lot of the time they'll be okay with that. It's not the best but, you know, they'll be okay with that. So it's part of the— part of this rounding is that we'll start to ask patients feedback that will then come into the application to be delivered to all the staff. And that's anonymous, and it's not an individual patient, but it'll be more of a general, you know, this is what's happening within our department within this shift. You know, this is, you know, we've got 90% of our patients that are happy with our service, or, you know, appreciative of the communication, um, that's, that's being involved. And, you know, it's, it's nice, you know, you can see that direct response with that care that you're providing or that communication that you're delivering to the patient. So yeah, that's, that's where the patients can get involved, which, um, which should be fantastic.

Awesome, great. So it sounds like you're getting that, you know, again, not individualized responses where this patient can chime in on what's happening, but you can get the feedback or on whether or not the patients who are being at the other end of this application being utilized, that they find that the enhanced communication is making their service or their care better. So that's great. Um, so I also want to ask real quick about your program that you developed for burnout specifically, right? How to, uh, prevent and/or navigate burnout. And so this is big. I mean, the whole world needs this right now, and I hope Um, if your sales haven't taken off, that they do real soon because we all need, uh, this really important information. And I know there's a lot of, uh, markets out there for this type of training, but it's such a high need that I'm very confident that every single nurse in the entire world can put out content on this and it would be widely accepted and consumed. So let's talk a little bit about your program.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, It's a massive problem. It's been a problem for years as well.

For a long time.

Oh, for a very long time. And you know, yourself, Damion, you've been on the floor, you've seen it. It's 20-odd years, even longer. And some of the research is 20 years anyway. So what COVID has done is just put another stressor on already a stressed environment, already stressed profession, already stressed group of group of individuals that are just trying to get by. And so the course has really been developed out of a need to help and support. I did the course when I was going through it. I didn't know, but I created it back in 2014, '15 as I started to look at some of the fundamentals and I started to ask that why question. I started to ask, you know, why am I doing this? What is driving me as a person? And started to try to understand, try to unpack some of the decisions I've made in my life.. And then, you know, really hone down on, you know, what, what are my core drivers? And as I was saying, you know, like yourself, impact is really important to me. But what is also really important is having certainty in my life, and certainly in personal and professional life, you know. Well, not professional so much, but more personal. And then, you know, good variety to keep things spiced up and whatnot. So, you know, there's certain drivers that are really important to me so I can perform and be my best. And so what the course does is it goes through these things and helps you identify what you're driven for, what's driving you, and then we wrap it up and support you with a plan and start to understand how can we make incremental change every day. I was in the US in 2019 actually, and studying with BJ Fogg, who's a behavior design expert at Stanford. And so the course has then taken this knowledge from BJ Fogg and applied that and really looking at how can we create incremental tiny habit changes every day. Even, you know, that's important to us. Have you ever had someone told you to make a change or change your goal or this is good for you, but it doesn't mean anything to you? Whereas it's, so the course we tried to get, try to align your aspirations with really outcomes that you can achieve every day and you can see that change over time. So I'm quite proud of the course because I know it works. So yeah, I'm keen to see it grow.

Awesome. That sounds wonderful. Um, you know, behavioral modification, mind management, and emotional intelligence— these are all things that we can all stand to really improve our ability. It sounds like your course covers a lot of that to really make sure that we are taking full control over our situation, because that's really what it's about. You know, we can be handed the worst situation possible, but we have decisions to make. And how we respond to that and how we can move through that in a responsible, mindful, you know, emotionally intelligent way. And that we don't have to succumb to the stressors. We don't have to succumb to the negative situation because, you know, the old adage, mind over matter, is so powerful and it speaks to the truths of the universe. Really, you believe it, it will happen. We have the ability to manifest our own circumstances beyond what's going on. So I think this course would be, you know, really awesome, and I definitely want to look into it more myself. So awesome. So if individuals want to get in touch with you to ask more questions, you know, maybe pick your brain about something, collaborate, become a business partner, whatever the opportunities may be, How can they find you and get in touch with you?

Yeah, awesome. And I'm very open to communication and people reaching out. I love chatting with people, especially on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is probably the place to find me, and it's Athol Hann, H-A-N-N. So you could probably find me there and message me, and we're open with chats. I've, you know, I've had many interesting conversations with my friends in the US. And so you can find out more about the course at burnoutnomore.me. And the app is fwards.com, F-W-A-R-D-S dot com. Now the app is only available in Australia currently, but we're looking, we're looking into expanding it into the US as soon as we can travel and make that happen. But yeah, that's probably the best spots to find out a bit more about the information and get in contact.

Awesome. Very good. So I will have all of the ways that the listeners can get in touch with you in the show notes of this episode. Um, so any of you who are interested in connecting, uh, you'll be able to do that there. I wanna thank you so much for coming on the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast, sharing your story with us, letting us know that there is hope, uh, because despite burnout, you found your ability to be resilient and then give back through your learning, which is so essential and so very needed. And this is what nurses do. We learn the skills, we learn the knowledge, and then we pay it forward so that we can stay true to our mission of keeping our communities well and supporting and advocating for our profession. So thank you so much. Until next time, be well, and we'll talk soon. Take care.

Thanks, Damion Jenkins. See ya. Goodbye.

And this concludes episode 10 of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this week's guest, Athol Han. We hope that all of the strategies we've shared for you in today's episode will help to inspire, motivate, and empower you to lead the charge. All of the ways to get in touch with Athol will be included in the show notes of this podcast episode. As always, if you have any questions for me, feel free to visit thenursespeak.com/contact and get in touch with me. I would love to have a conversation with you. So until next episode, Take care, be well, and remember that nurses can do anything.