From Candystriper to Oncology Nurse Pioneer then to Legal Nurse Consultant, Author & Entrepreneur - Susan demonstrates that Nurses Really CAN do Anything!

Thank you for joining me for another episode of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this week's guest, Susan Haibach. Susan is a highly experienced registered nurse specializing in oncology with over 30 years of experience in the field. With a passion for patient advocacy and a drive for justice, she has become a trusted resource for attorneys nationwide seeking assistance in medically related cases, particularly in personal injury and medical malpractice. In recognition of her expertise, Susan authored the groundbreaking book Cancer Care Malpractice for Attorneys, which was published in 2022. Susan holds a master's degree in adult oncology nursing from Northern Illinois University. Susan is deeply dedicated to supporting cancer patients and their families, both inside and outside the courtroom. So let's welcome Susan to the show. Welcome to the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast, brought to you by The Nurse Speak, a show where we rally some of our nation's greatest nurse leaders educators, experts, and advocates to tackle some of our greatest challenges that the nursing profession faces. My name is Damion Jenkins, and I'm your host for this show. So sit back, relax, and get ready to learn that nurses can do anything.

Okay, Susan, thank you so much for being with us on the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast. Why don't you take a moment and introduce yourself to the listeners? Let them know a little bit about yourself, where you started in nursing and where you are today.

Well, thank you, Damion, for having me on today.

My pleasure.

My name is Susan Haibach, and I am— let's see. Well, I started way back in the way back as a candy striper many, many years ago. And that my, my interest at the time coming out of high school was, shall I be a journalist or shall I be a nurse? And so nursing won because I was a candy striper and I absolutely loved it. And in my naivety and maybe prediction, I thought I could always write about nursing. So I went to Wesley Passiven School of Nursing on— hold on— a government student loan. Wow. That paid for all of my schooling, board It was a nursing school. The director of nursing chided me. She did not want me to come to her nursing school. She said I should go for my bachelor's degree. She said, do not come for a diploma. The bachelor's degree is happening. And I said, no, no, I must be clinical. So I didn't want to spend 2 years in, in the classroom. So I went to Wesley Pasven School of Nursing, had a great school experience with all the interns, residents, physicians, all the knowledge. And then I went to I did follow her advice and started my bachelor's degree directly after that from Northern Illinois University on a part-time basis, and then my master's degree in adult oncology nursing from Northern Illinois University. So that is my educational background. And during those last two degrees, I was raising my family. So everything I was doing was part-time.

Yeah.

Awesome.

So I just want to backtrack just a little bit because a lot of us don't really understand unless we dig deep in the history books and things like that, or speak to people who were in those roles, the candy striper role, and then also the diploma programs. You know, a lot of the younger nurses out here didn't— don't— we don't really even know that a diploma program existed. If you want to just briefly kind of tell us candy striper role and then also what the diploma process was like, what's the big difference between that and schooling today?

Okay, very good. Uh, the candy striper role is a volunteer position, and my, and my best friend and I, 16 years old, you know, we went to the local hospital and said we want to be candy stripers and help people who are sick. So they put us in jobs at the front desk delivering flowers and checking people when they came in. We checked off on a paper list, you know, looked up the paper list, the room numbers, and then I advanced actually to being put on a floor. So I was on a unit and I could answer lights.

Wow.

And I was so excited. And of course, all the nursing assistants and registered nurses at the time, they just said, go at it, Susan, go answer all those lights. Nice. So that's cool.

So Candy Stripers was a volunteer opportunity.

Correct.

Where did the term Candy Stripers come from? Do you know?

Ah, good question. That I'd have to look up.

Yeah, we'll look that up.

Well, the pinstripe uniform, it was a pink and white striped uniform In fact, I have a picture of myself in my very first newsletter. Well, you can't see it on here, but I was playing the piano for some seniors at the hospital and I have my uniform on there.

Oh, that's so lovely.

Like a bib, bib with a white shirt underneath. Yeah.

Oh, that's lovely.

All right.

Awesome. And then what about the diploma programs? What's different about the diploma programs, which I don't think there's any active diploma programs in the US anymore. I think they've all transitioned out to at least an associate degree. Last I checked, I couldn't find any active diploma programs. But what is, what is that like? What's the difference?

Well, the difference was, and I believe you're correct in that there are not any active programs at this time. So in the 1970s, there were no, there were no community or junior colleges, whatever we're calling them today. And the option was anyone. My big choices were nursing or teaching, and I wanted to be a nurse. So the programs available were the 3-year diploma programs, and they were year-round. And, or from ours was, and we started off with Nursing 101 in the classroom and Nursing 101 in the clinical arena at the hospital. And we also had our sciences at Northwestern University in Chicago. I was at Wesley Passiven School of Nursing, and we went to med school with the, or we went to anatomy class with the med students and the dental students. So we were in a huge auditorium with them all, and it was pretty rigorous. The one thing we didn't have was the lab.

Got it.

So that, that was all, but we had the hands-on experience, um, with our patients.

Wow. And so for 3 years, you basically spent all your time with a mixture of nursing and med students, um, clinically heavy, if I'm not mistaken. Most of your time is spent at the bedside or in the clinical setting where you're applying the things that you're learning, and sometimes you're learning as you're actually touching patients.

Exactly.

With your clinical instructors. And it was a lot less class time and a lot more clinical. And then even if— even in my research, I found that some hospitals actually created dormitories for the nurses in the programs, and they lived on site.

Right?

That was the usual. That was the standard, actually, because when you went there, you knew you were staying there. Our building was actually attached to the hospital, right? And it wasn't a dorm, it was actually apartments. And we actually had maid service in a furnished apartment. And I walked across, um, the 6th floor was attached to the hospital, so I just rolled out of bed to clinical in the morning. But we had to go the night before, and our patients were assigned the night before, and we had to go and prepare for the next morning. We had to know everything about our patient when we showed up at 7 o'clock the next morning, their medications, their diseases, everything that we was available in the chart at that time for us to digest. And then we would have our conferences in the morning, our pre-conference before clinical, and talk about our patients, then go actually meet them.

Right. Wow. So that explains so much for when I was in my nursing training, why Sometimes our instructors, depending on who they were, would actually have us go to the hospital the day before our clinical and research our patients. I never really understood why, but that makes so much sense. I mean, you, you lived there.

We did.

It wasn't a major inconvenience for you to just roll in, you know, spend what, a couple of hours maybe?

Maybe more, more time in the library afterwards.

Sure. Gathering information about your patients when there's the disease process or medication that you're not familiar with, obviously the expectation is, is that you would look that up and that way you're focusing more on delivering the care rather than learning about the care, which is pretty cool.

Correct. We did, you know, despite what people thought, we did have psychology. I mean, we had sociology classes, we did have English, we did have some liberal arts sprinkled in for Northwestern. It wasn't— but it was— it was— the goal was not a Bachelor of Science degree or a Bachelor of Nursing degree. It was a diploma after the 3 years. Awesome.

Awesome.

White stockings, white cap.

Yeah, that's so amazing.

It's really cool.

And, you know, I think programs with like that, similar to that, would also still really benefit our profession as a stepping stone, right? You know, like right now there's a lot of discussion about— and there's been discussion for 30-plus years— but discussion about how we should have, um, stepping stones for the degrees, for the end goal to be at least a bachelor's degree to enter to be able to become a licensed registered nurse. That's been the discussion for quite a while. I think the candy striper diploma program is a great transition where you can get your clinical skills. You're not licensed yet. You're working under, you know, the supervision of the licensed RNs, which is exactly what happened when those programs existed. Then the associate degree would be entry into practice. You know, maybe you could sit for an LPN licensure at that point and then practice your, your you know, basic clinical skills, medication administration, those types of things, and then get the bachelor's to then be able to sit for the registered nurse licensure. Now, they've been talking about this again for 30-plus years, and of course with the nursing shortage, it's constantly a ping-pong kind of discussion about, no, if we do that, we're going to lose more applicants into nursing. But I don't necessarily think that's true if we continue to keep the multiple entry points into practice and allow people to still earn an income and learn those clinical skills. By the time they get to that bachelor's and then they sit for their RN licensure, they should be very experienced, and we should have really high-caliber RNs coming out into practice once they get that RN license. You know, we're looking at 5+ years of direct clinical experience before they even get to that BSN. I think that would be a smart move for us as a profession. But again, this is— there's a lot of pros and cons when we think about it on the grand scheme of things. But wow, you know, super exciting. I'm all about nursing education. This is why I specialize in education. So this is really cool conversation. So, all right. So we talked about your academic experience. Let's talk a little bit about your clinical experience.

Certainly. Well, I was— fortunately, I was part of a great team in my senior year of nursing school and the, the medical surgical unit, and they convinced me to stay and work at, uh, Passavant Hospital. And so I stayed there as a staff nurse on a med-surg floor for a year. Then I, um, the Peter Principle applied— if, uh, you were good at one thing, you must be good at the next. So, uh, they— after a full year of nursing, I was asked to be the nurse manager, the head nurse, on another medical surgical unit. So I did that for a few years, and then my husband and I moved to Elmhurst. And I commuted downtown Chicago at that time. So I didn't live that close anymore. But I did that for a few years. And then I wanted to continue my bachelor's and master's— my bachelor's degree first and balance this all with family and work type things. And so I worked part-time at Elmhurst Hospital, and then I finished my bachelor's degree in nursing from Northern Illinois. And then I— this— they were first talking about an oncology unit, the first oncology unit and the first oncology program in the western suburbs. And they hired a clinical nurse specialist, which was— made the news all over.

Right.

Big deal.

Oh my gosh, who did she think she was telling those doctors what to do? So this— I was part of the first multidisciplinary program, cancer program in Elmhurst. At Elmhurst Hospital in Illinois, and, um, I was a chemotherapy staff nurse. I, um, helped develop that program at the hospital with the mentor who came while I was completing my master's degree also, as time moved on. So I stayed at Elmhurst Hospital and helped develop their oncology program, and at the same time finishing my master's degree then in adult oncology nursing. And During the— well, let's see, during a lot was happening at the same time. At— while I was in my bachelor's program, I spent a day in radiation therapy because I didn't know what it was. I knew chemotherapy very well. Nobody really talked about radiation that much because they're primarily outpatient.

Right.

And we were so focused on inpatient care and outpatient care didn't exist really. There wasn't that much ambulatory care.

Right.

So when I went down into the radiation department, and the chief tech told the patients, they said, oh, there's this nurse who's going to spend the day with us. Well, I just sat down in the patient waiting room and they just flocked to me with questions. They, you know, the techs could answer the technical things, but they didn't have the pain medication answers, the empathy. They had to get their patients treated. They didn't have the time to sit and chat and assess the patient. That way.

Right.

So for pain management, for social work issues, for dietitian, the whole nutrition issues, um, you know, just general, uh, emotional support for the newly diagnosed cancer patient.

Sure.

I was overwhelmed with how much there was to do, or potentially. However, the radiation therapy department didn't see it that way because it wasn't hands-on. Well, what's that nurse doing? She's not giving a shot.

Right, of course.

She's not giving the treatment. What is she doing? Well, I had to explain that, and then we had to document that for the next level up, the vice president. We documented actually on one of the very first computer printers we had, you know, I had to— I documented the symptoms we treated, the information, you know, the pain management or home care or whatever the issues were. So we presented it to our vice president and said, you know, we'd like to try having Susan in the department for a half day a week. Okay, that's not too big of a financial commitment either. 4 hours, you know, big deal. And but it's— it made such an impact. They all waited for Wednesday morning when I would be there. You know, they all wanted to talk to Susan the nurse. So, so it was very interesting. And so then we, over time, we, you know, we re— even we did this as a quote-unquote pilot program, and we reevaluated in 6 months. And lo and behold, there was more of a need than we anticipated. And so we increased my time there to 1 day a month, a full day, full 8-hour day. And I was documenting in the chart, which was new for everybody to think about someone documenting in the chart in radiation, beside from the dosage of radiation therapy. And the patients were much more— they're less anxious, I think, with about the treatment once they knew everything that was going on. And I could help explain the treatment process better on a regular basis and what to expect in the side effects. And, you know, the common— the same questions are asked over and over. Will I be radioactive? No. Well, you know, with the external radiation therapy, so so it was a great, great experience. And then I was actually— I left that position and went to another position. And, you know, then that position became a full-time job in radiation therapy.

That's amazing.

Over the years.

Yeah, that's really amazing. You know, it's so cool to hear how nurses, you know, no matter where you are in your career, how a nurse can identify a need and then leverage their expertise to create a whole new specialty, right? Because we've identified that those patients had those needs. And was it a doctor that created your position?

No, no.

Was it one of the radiation techs who was like, oh my God, we get all these questions and we don't know how to answer them, can we get a nurse in here? No, no, no one but nursing are the ones to create these types fixes, right? These, these specialty jobs that help facilitate patient needs. And so, you know, going more than just answering those questions for those patients, you were the active listener that they needed to, you know, get some of their anxieties out, to help clarify questions, to help them create a plan of care that's going to be best for them. I'm sure you did all of that in that role, you know, help them manage their side effects when they're nauseous and they can't eat and maybe make recommendations for the types of foods they could eat that are easier on the digestive tract, but also provide the nutrition they need. Sure, they could go see a dietitian for that, but who better to help them weave in, you know, how it's going to best work for that patient? And that's what nurses do. So, wow. I mean, really, kudos to you for, for seeing that this was a need. Asking yourself more about radiation therapy because you didn't know enough about it and you thought, wow, I can't be an oncology nurse and not have the full spectrum of knowledge. So you sought that knowledge. And then during that experience, you're like, wait a minute, they need nurses here, which is fantastic. So big kudos to you. I'm such an inspiration. And I think everyone listening, you know, could take that experience and try to see where they can create additional, um, fixes, right, in the areas that they're in currently, because we still have so many needs that are going unmet, um, and gaps, lots of gaps, right, that we can leverage nursing to fill. So awesome. All right, so she did a lot, right? And, and there's more, right? You've done even more. There's a whole legal nurse consulting side of your career. So talk about that. How did you move from the, you know, innovative, let's create these pilot programs, let's get these, these nurses in these positions that are going to help fill the gaps so that patients have better care, to helping attorneys manage legal cases in healthcare. How did you get there?

Well, Damion Jenkins, over the years, being in my different positions at the hospital and then of the office oncology, setting, more— I noticed kind of the gaps in documentation and perhaps the, you know, the quality of documentation from all the other specialties as well, and things that went wrong because of that poor documentation or not maintaining the level of the standard of care as to what we know it should be from the Oncology Nursing Society guidelines for chemotherapy care. So there was a— it was just kind of a time in my life when I thought it was time for a change. The physical part of the bedside was getting a little rougher to handle, and I, and I wanted to be more independent than I was, even though I was an independent clinical nurse specialist. I wanted to sort of have my own hours, my own— I wanted to be on my schedule instead of someone else's schedule, right? So I had looked into this for a while, and then took, took a class, a course, certification course on legal nurse consulting, which the idea was to give me a little bit of the legal piece, not to be a little lawyer, but to be a nurse who could review medical records and understand what the attorney needed from the nurse, right? So, because we have the knowledge that they don't. And so then I I started looking into that and learned how to market myself and started going to attorney conferences and meeting with attorneys and then deciding what I could do for them was to review medical records for breaches of the standard of care, or review them for merit, or summarize them, or locate experts. There's a variety of things included in the legal nurse consulting field.

Awesome. So with that, right, so again, you, you identified a gap, right? Another gap that you identified. This is what nurses do best, um, for those of you listening, if you haven't figured that out by now. This is nurses' superpower, right? Our ability to assess and really make sense of what's going on. And then when we don't understand something, or when we see something's missing, it's our opportunity to leverage our skills to get the answers we need. And so sometimes it means throwing ourselves into that situation and figuring out what could we do to, you know, fill those needs or those gaps. So awesome. So if you were to say, based on all your years of experience, if there was like one thing that's plaguing the nursing profession that you feel, um, you've either come across a solution for or that you know of others that have created a solution for, What would you say is the biggest challenge for the nursing profession that you would want to discuss and provide strategies for today?

Um, stick to your original intent of wanting to make a patient's life better, or a client's, depending on your situation. Do it from your heart and your brain. And fill those needs, assess those needs and the gaps. And like, for right now, I feel like I'm helping my patients behind the scenes, my oncology patients, or my— the clients of the attorneys. And maybe policy and procedure is getting changed because I reviewed that case on chemotherapy extravasation and pointed out what was incorrect. So I— it's another way to— there's different ways to help our patients.

Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, one of the things that I see is is a big challenge, um, now that I'm in the administration side of things, right? I have lots of clinical experience, lots of education experience. I've been in academia, um, in administration, and there's challenges there. But now I'm in clinical administration. I'm assistant director of nursing and director of education for a very large long-term care subacute rehab facility here in Manhattan, New York. And one of the biggest challenges that I'm seeing is is what you said first, is make sure that you always go back to the, the original intention of doing what's best for the patients, right? So really always going back to that foundational reason of why you became a nurse in the first place, because then when you focus on doing what's right for the patients, it makes it much easier to navigate the challenges that you're faced with in that current situation. It's very easy to focus on, oh, we're not getting paid what we're worth. Well, I don't think anyone in the world would agree that they're getting paid what they're worth, even Jeff Bezos, right? Let's just be— let's just be real. He has more money than anyone else in the world, and he probably still thinks he doesn't have enough, right? So there's always the ability to look on at the negative, right, and to focus on the things that are causing us grief or anxiety. But if we always try to stay in the light of gratitude, as I say, and say, you know what, I am blessed and honored and able to serve others, right? If I get to wake up another day and provide a service for someone who's in need, then that should be my motivator, right? Um, you know, if you're spiritual, religious, or not, right, it doesn't matter. It's a foundational rule. That when you do good, good comes back to you, right? It's universal energy, circles back around. You're gonna get what you need, and you're going to be protected, and you're going to have, you know, meaning in the work that you're doing if you stay in that mindset. And so, you know, I have a lot of folks that would come in and they think, you know, oh, nurses make so much money. And we know that's not necessarily true for many of us. Um, some of us are fortunate enough to find our, our niche that allows us to leverage our expertise and then where we can make a very comfortable living because we're able to specialize and really identify those needs and push and lean into those heavily. And then we, we get recurrent clients, recurrent job opportunities. And so, you know, eventually we can put ourselves to a place to where we become experts. And then so we start making that expert money. But it It doesn't always go back to the money, like you said, right? We always have to go back to the basics, make sure we're doing it from our heart, from our brain. We're making choices that are in the best interest of those who we serve and not necessarily thinking about what we want out of it initially, right? Of course we have to, we have to protect ourselves, right? We have to protect our peace, our energy. We have to make sure we are earning a fair wage and that we have fair and safe workplace conditions. And when we are not receiving those things, we have an ethical obligation as nurses to either try to fix it or to remove ourselves from those environments so that we're not contributing to those environments.

It's your duty.

Correct. Um, but yeah, just always remember, no matter how stressful it gets or how crazy things might get, we have a sole purpose of maintaining safety protecting our clients, and also really protecting our profession. Because if it weren't for the nursing profession, our healthcare system would literally crumble. We would have no one to do the work. Um, there's just not enough physicians or PAs or, or any other provider beyond nursing that could do the work that needs to be done.

And we have to—

yeah, yeah, we have to help each other, right? So we, we both personally know bullying experts and people who, you know, dedicate their lives to enhancing positive workplace environments. But really, ultimately, it starts with us, right?

Correct.

On an individual basis, one by one. If you show up to work positive and eager to help, and you focus on the fact that you are doing good, no matter how much you feel you're behind, no matter how much you feel like your supervisor is getting on to you things, or, or this family member is being unreasonable with their expectations. It doesn't matter, you're still serving others. And so if we could just stay in that mindset, it makes it so much easier to deal with those issues.

The patient and their family are probably going through the worst time of their life.

Absolutely.

They're in the hospital, and that's all we have to remember.

Absolutely. It's so easy to take someone's grief grief and put it onto ourselves and start taking it personally and then getting resentful. And you have to really avoid doing that. You know, when I was a baby nurse, right, just learning, um, I had 15 years of hospitality industry under my belt before I became a nurse. So I was already used to dealing with people, but I used to—

service, right?

But I was usually dealing with them when they were looking for a good time, right? Because when people come out to eat, they're looking for a good time. So when I was a new nurse and I was adjusting to the anxieties and the grief and, and the depression and all of the mental illness that circulates around being ill or disabled, I had a little bit of a hard time adjusting to that. And it did weigh on me initially because I didn't have the coping mechanisms or the deeper understanding of knowing how to not allow those energies to sit on my heart. Right. So instead of identifying what stage of the grieving process the person was in and taking that knowledge and then giving the person what they needed, I was taking it personally. And I'm like, why are they being so difficult? Why aren't they complying? You know, why are they purposely, you know, trying to upset me? And with more experience and more knowledge, then I realized, oh, well, this person's in the bargaining phase of the grieving process, so they're going to negotiate everything with me. They're not going to be happy with anything I say or do. So my focus for this individual is to give them space, give them grace, Give them what they need to remain healthy. And then anything else is just going to be time. They need time. They need someone there to listen. They need someone there to meet their needs. Obviously, again, I have to protect myself and not, not be abused by someone who might be bargaining in a negative way. But at the same time, it's my, it's my role. Like, it's my job. I signed up for this work. And so I take it with, with great pride. But it wasn't at first. It took a while.

Well, that's the knowledge and wisdom you gain of sticking around, right?

Correct. And so, you know, for those new nurses listening to any of the shows that you listen to on this podcast, just know you can be a Susan, right? You can be a Damion. You can definitely— you can put in the work initially. It's always hard at first when you're doing something new. Um, it's always going to be stressful. You're always going to be a little anxious. That inner saboteur never goes away. We just learn how to talk it down and not let it stop us from pursuing our goals. And it's just a matter of just doing what you're passionate about. And Susan, you're passionate about, you know, becoming a nurse, and you're passionate about filling gaps and serving those who are suffering from cancer, um, and then really getting a well-rounded knowledge on all of the aspects of cancer care. And then even helping lawyers protect patients and families, um, for malpractice issues, right? Because we know healthcare is a business, and sometimes businesses don't make the best decisions for their customers. And our patients are the customers, and we're customers of the healthcare industry, right?

I have defended nurses also. Absolutely. I've, I've written— I've worked both sides of the aisle there, so that was a pleasure too. Yes, good.

And that's great. And, you know, we talked a little bit offline before starting to record that nurses are in danger, right? We are in danger with our current health climate and legal system that we have going on. A lot of organizations are not really stepping up to say, this is our system failure, so we should protect our nurses. And instead, they're allowing nurses to be thrown under the bus and to have their licensure jeopardized, even jail time and financial you know, despair for some of these nurses. Um, so if you were to give any advice about just that legal aspect for protecting nurses, just one or two tips that you would give a nurse listening on how to protect their license?

Sounds obvious, but, um, the honesty and documentation. If there's a problem, document the problem and doc— and make sure you go to the next level. Or make sure the team knows. Um, I think communication is actually a breach of the standard of care. Failure to communicate to the doctor, to the staff, to the patient, to the radiologist, to the family— those can all come back and bite you if you were in a hurry. And you know, we're all in a hurry, and we have to take that deep breath and, and say, okay, here's your discharge instructions. You need to listen to me. Yeah, you 'You need to know the dose of medication you're going home on.' 'Oh no, no, no. Yes, I'm writing it down. I'm making sure you know, and here's your home care nurse who will take care of you at home.' You know, you really need to finish and follow through.

Yeah.

So that when I read it 5 years later, I know that you did your job.

Absolutely. And something I always tell folks that I'm either teaching or training is you also have to document validation that they understand, right? You simply say discharge instructions provided. So what? You could, you could give discharge instructions to a brick wall. That doesn't mean the brick wall is going to understand what you said, right?

Verbalized understanding and patient family understands.

And right, so good examples, give real examples. Patient states medication dose and frequency of taking the meds correctly and putting quotes what they say back. You know, patients successfully demonstrated safe technique of insulin injection.

And then can make the difference between—

Spell out exactly what that safe injection means. You know, held the needle correctly, confirmed the dose, drew up the medication successfully. You know, I, you know, nurse confirmed the dose was correct. Patient cleansed the site with alcohol. Literally spell it out. And there's no way that anyone could say that you didn't do what you were supposed to do.

Do? The easy— the, the best notes that I read, sadly, are the dietitians.

Imagine that.

And the, um, wound care and physical and occupational therapy. And why? And speech. Now, why is that?

They have measurements.

They have one patient at a time also.

True.

Yeah, one patient at a time they're allowed to look at.

We have multiple patients we're managing Right, sure, on a shift basis, but I know dietitians see more than one resident or patient at a time. Oh yes, but when we're in the chart— so going back to nursing— when we're in the chart, we're always taking care of that one resident or that one patient at a time. So, so yes, you're right. And, and also those wound notes are the, like, the wound care notes and the dietitian notes and the speech or, or physical therapy they're focusing on measurements. They're focusing on, you know, what the plan is, where the patient is in that goal, and where are they in meeting the goal, right? And they're having very specific data that can be what I called, um, done again by someone else, right? So if I read the nurse's note, it needs to be, uh, I can go to that person and see exactly what that nurse is talking about. Out, right? I want to be able to do the same thing that the nurse has done. Like, if it's a wound measurement, for instance, I should be able to go to that wound and measure exactly what the other nurse wrote.

Replicable. There we go.

That's, that's the answer. Reproducible or replicable. That's the word.

Scientific. Yeah, the scientific method.

Yes, correct. So I want to be able to know that I can find the same thing that you found based on your note. So, you know, some of— some institutions will tell you only chart by exception. Um, but always know you're nursing practice and you're bound by your license, not by the policies or procedures of the facility, right? Policies and procedures are a guide, and yes, if you violate them, you could be in trouble with the facility, but in the court of law, you have to follow the Nursing Practice Act and you have to do what's best for the patient at all times because you're bound to that by your license. So it's very big difference between being compliant for your employer and being compliant to your license. So keep that in mind. So awesome, Susan. So if people were to have more questions, if they wanted to consult with you, um, you have a book, right? So I do drop that book real quick.

It's Cancer Care Malpractice: An Attorney's Guide to Understanding the Issues. And I wrote that during COVID so that kept me busy.

Awesome. Awesome.

And published just 2 years ago, so it's, it's still pretty new. And I— my web— my email is susan@haibeckandassociates.com, or my LinkedIn is Susan Haibeck, H-A-I-B-E-C-K.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Susan, for joining me on the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast. It was a real pleasure speaking with you. So much wisdom, experience, knowledge, dedication to the nursing profession. You are truly an inspiration. If someone hasn't said that to you recently, I hope you take it and truly understand that, um, you are an inspiration to me, and I'm sure you'll be to so many others. Thank you so much, and, uh, I look forward to connecting with you soon. By the way, are you going to National Nurses in Business Association this year?

This year I am not. Okay, sorry to say, but I have been before. Definitely, that's where we met.

Yeah, that is where we met. So I go, you know, religiously every year. It's going to be in July again this year in Vegas. Um, I highly recommend those of you who are interested in entrepreneurship, um, and how to leverage your nursing skills, how to, you know, connect with at a minimum, become a member. You have a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips just on the other side of the keyboard and computer screen. But we meet up every year and it's such an amazing conference. And you could agree to that as well, Susan, right?

Oh, it's so motivating to come out of there charged up and ready to go. In fact, now that you're mentioning it, maybe I'll look at those dates again.

Uh-huh.

It's between a couple different, you know, a couple different— I think I'm already in Philadelphia that weekend, but I have to double-check.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We do it every year, so no pressure if you can't make it this year. Awesome, Susan. Thanks again for being on the show, and we'll be in touch soon. Take care.

You bet. Thank you, Damion Jenkins Jenkins. All right, my pleasure.

And that concludes episode 6 of season 3 of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this week's guest, Susan Haubach. We hope that everything that we shared for you in today's episode will help you be inspired to pursue whatever nursing career trajectory that you are most passionate about. As demonstrated in this episode and many other episodes, nurses really can do anything so long as you keep in mind your sole purpose as a nurse. That's to to serve others, to protect, to maintain health and wellness, to support one another, to operate from a fundamental truth of caring, compassion, and empathy. All the ways that you can connect with Susan will be in the show notes of this episode. And as always, if you have any questions about anything shared, please visit the Nurse Speak www.nursejennifermcclain.com/contact and get in touch with me.

I would love to have a conversation with you.

So until next episode, take care, be well, and remember that nurses can do anything.