From little to no support while entering into practice as a PMHNP to BECOMING the support others NEED: Nurses Helping Other Nurses Thrive!

Thank you for joining me for another episode of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this week's guest, Kirby Williams. Kirby is a nurse practitioner who obtained psychiatric training and education from University of Virginia. Her passion for mentoring and teaching psychiatric nurse practitioners was the fuel to starting her professional development services for new grad and novice psychiatric nurse practitioners through her company, the PMHNP Source LLC, where she currently provides one-to-one consultation services to help empower, guide, and support their career journey. So let's welcome Kirby to the show. Welcome to the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast, brought to you by The Nurse Speak, a show where we rally some of our nation's greatest nurse leaders educators, experts, and advocates to tackle some of our greatest challenges that the nursing profession faces. My name is Damion Jenkins, and I'm your host for this show. So sit back, relax, and get ready to learn that nurses can do anything.

Okay, Kirby, thank you so much for joining me on the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast. Why don't you just take a moment and introduce yourself to the listeners? Let them know a little bit about yourself, where you started in nursing and where you are today.

Awesome. Hello everyone, I am Kirby Williams. I am a psychiatric nurse practitioner, and I have been a psychiatric nurse practitioner now for 12 years. My journey started in nursing very from where I am now, but my journey actually started at a Level 1 trauma center as a new grad on— it's a med-surg floor, but it was focused on trauma in Phoenix, Arizona. So that's where my career started, in the desert.

Awesome. In the desert. Okay.

In the desert.

Right. And all right, so you started off in kind of a med-surg trauma setting. And then how many years did you do that?

So that hospital specifically was about 2.5 years, and I did a little traveling. So this was back when traveling wasn't so hot as it is now, but this was back in 2008. Okay. I was a travel nurse, and I got myself to the East Coast with that, with the travel assignment, and stayed on the East Coast. And so all of my RN years All together was about 5, 5 and a half years.

Okay. And then so 5 and a half years of registered nursing, including traveling. So what made you decide you wanted to pursue your nurse practitioner?

Yeah. And it was funny because in the beginning I was like, I don't want to go back to nursing school. It's traumatizing.

Yeah.

Nobody wants to go back, right?

I know.

I was like, oh my gosh, she's so traumatized. I know people asked me like 2 years out and I was like, no, I'm really okay. I've had enough distress and like you know, make sure you're at clinical at 6:00 AM, trauma, that I was like, I'm all right. So, but something that I really did notice as I continued to do work in a lot of the units and floors that I worked on as a registered nurse was there was a lot of lack of mental health care, mental health kind of provision, so to speak. Especially when I started, I was telling you about that med surg trauma unit. Now, in, you know, I haven't been to Phoenix in in a very long time. But at that time, our floor itself, we would have the most traumatic car, motorcycle accidents. And they were very young persons. I would say people under 30 and losing limbs and having very traumatic and dramatic injuries that were life-changing and life-altering. And they did not have any mental health support during the time they were with us because a lot of times they were there for maybe 30 days. I know people don't stay in the hospital that long now, but they were a long time. Time they were with us. Um, and then even like afterwards, it was like, all right, well, then, you know, follow up with the surgeon, you got your follow-up with this person and that person. And I was always thinking like, I mean, this person's like 26, he used to be a basketball star, now they just lost the limb. Yeah, you know, like, whoa, you know, just trying to think, like, trying to get that in my own, like, wow, like, what? Oh, you know, like, this guy, something is missing, something's going to be missing for this person on their healing journey. Whatever it may look like for them. And so that's what kind of started me thinking about, like, wow, if I did go back, if at the time, if I did go back.

Yeah, big fat if at that point.

Yeah, if I did go back, maybe I would lean towards that, lean towards, could I work in mental health along the lines of trauma, like what I was seeing in that first RN position? Because that was what I was seeing and what really stuck with me. And I saw that in different iterations. Operations at other hospitals as well that weren't just the hospital in Phoenix, Arizona. But I kind of— that's what I was kind of thinking about, you know, is there a way to kind of put that together? Like, you know, I got experience in trauma and med-surg and physical health, you know, plus, you know, adding to that wealth of knowledge by getting more information and education and experience in mental health. Like, could I really, like, put those two together? That was my, you know, my ideal job, I think, at that time, what I was kind of thinking about that led me to nurse practitioner school, right?

And that's so important because I've been the RN caring for the exact patient that you just described, you know, 26-year-old traumatic injury, paralyzed, you know, permanently disfigured, non-sexual for the rest of their life, whatever the issue may be for that person. And I get them angry and I get them abusive towards others. And I get them really having a hard time processing where they are, you know, just— and no support, really no support. And I tried my best to provide that mental support. But as we know, bedside nurses are tasked with so many things to do, we can't really lean into the mental wellness as much as we would like to, right, there for our clients or our patients. To the extent that they need when they're grieving.

Yeah, yeah, right. So it's going up against this transition.

Yeah.

So kudos to you for identifying that gap in care, and it still exists.

So we—

yeah, right, it does still need a lot more mental health nurse practitioners out there, trust and believe. Of course, getting institutions to invest in hiring those mental health practitioners is a whole nother podcast episode that I don't think we'll get into.

You've got a whole nother episode. Yeah, yeah, I got you. A whole nother episode.

Um, but awesome.

So great.

So you decided, I'm gonna go back to nurse practitioner school.

And yes, I'm going back to nursing school.

There you go. I'm so sorry, but also thank you because we need you, right?

Right, right.

Many of us are on the same kind of, you know, fence, like, do we go back? We know we can make more impact if we get more certifications, more degrees, more knowledge. We know we can, but, you know, it's always the process of getting there is kind of daunting, and it's just like Yeah, I've been, I've been toying with the idea of a doctorate for many years now, and maybe, maybe one day I'll do it.

I don't know. Right, right.

We'll see.

Right.

Awesome. So, so let's talk about the thing, right? You identified a gap in patient care which led you to become, you know, on a track towards getting your nurse practitioner and specializing in mental health. So other than seeing that gap, what is the thing that you see that's plaguing nursing as a profession as a whole that you have pivoted yourself to be a resource or try fine solution for that. What is that thing?

Yeah, so that is my business, the PMHNP Source, and that is a business that provides PMHNP education and professional development and support for new, new to practice, new grad psychiatric nurse practitioners. So once I did go back to school, as we, as we talked about, I went back to nursing school, you know, got my degree, got a really good I loved my school. I got a really good education, really supportive faculty. I had really great clinical experiences, all the things. So, you know, I was so— I was, you know, really happy about the experience that I got in the second go-round of nursing school. I'm getting my master's. And so I was like, all right, you know, got this good education, got this, you know, good experience. I'm ready to rock. And what I found is that, okay, you know, took me a while to get a job, that part, you know, could have used a little help on that one part.

I know the feeling. Same thing when I finished my master's, it was like I couldn't get a job and there was no support for that.

Exactly. So that was one piece of support. But then the other was, okay, I got the job and then starting, it was like, go on. Good luck. Yes. Figure it out. Yes, you got it. So there was no support beyond them teaching me the EHR they were using at that hospital specifically. It was different than the last hospital I worked at, maybe I shadowed someone for half a day. And there were other supportive persons there because I did work in an inpatient setting. So for me, that worked better. But there was no structured— I would say structured support. I'm a person, I'm going to ask questions. I'm going to get to what I need to the best of my ability. But there was no structured support. And so what I found myself doing is really figuring out a lot on my own. Um, I found myself having to create things on my own because they just didn't have it, right? So I was like, okay, let me get these resources together. Like, let me get— create my own templates for interviewing patients because whatever you guys are using here is just— it's not— doesn't flow that well. Right? I'm not hitting. Uh, so let me, you know, create something of my own. Um, let me make sure I'm tapping into things because like I'm really lost here. And there was another psych nurse practitioner who actually I went to school with, and she started with me at that same time, and she felt the same way. So I was like, okay, not just me. We're both starting. We were working on two different teams, but we were trying our best to help each other. But there was this gap of education and support. And though I'll just say it, pat myself on the back, I think I did well in the position. I think I could have done better.

Sure.

In this position, if I had more support, that would have led to more confidence. And of course, that then leads to better patient outcomes. Absolutely. All those things.

Absolutely. And before we get into speaking more about what you've done with your previous experiences and turning that into a business model that actually helps others in a similar situation, I just want to piggyback on what you said about not having any support when you enter into practice, because it's not just for mental health nurse practitioners.

Right.

It's for every nurse at every level. When you leave academia and enter into practice, there is a major gap, major, major gap in transitioning into practice. There's just not enough support, right? And that's largely due to organizations not investing in having really robust education teams. I'm just gonna put it out there like that. I am— yeah, yeah, I am a director of education., right? Yes. Currently holding a full-time position as Director of Education and Staff Development. I can speak with confidence in my many years as a nurse educator that many, many organizations— not every single one, so for those of you out there saying, oh no, we have an amazing—

not mine—

great, kudos for you. But look at your neighbors, look at your competition. I bet you they don't have the same level of support that you may have at your organization. And I became a nurse educator because I wasn't supported. So very much like you decided to put tools in place to support others like yourself, I did the same thing and pivoted and became a nurse educator so I could be a better support to those coming behind me.

Yes, yes.

So, so this is a major plague to the nursing profession. It always has been, it will continue to be unless we really start beefing up the resources to put education, you know, at the primary front of patient care. Like, education and training has to be a priority, right?

Yes.

Too often, too often we're being called to fix mistakes that could have been prevented had those individuals had the support and/or additional training. It's very easy for leadership to say, oh, you're a registered nurse, you have a license, you should know better.

Right, right, right.

We know, we know differently. We know that you don't learn everything in school, and even though you learn something in theory, putting into practice is a whole nother situation.

Yeah, people are not textbooks, correct? They're not textbooks, and it never looks like it either.

Never looks like it, correct? Because we have patient preference, we have family involvement, we have different cultures, different personalities. There's so many different layers of providing care to humans that go beyond just passing a medication, doing a dressing change, and making sure the patient's eyes and nose are accurate.

Right, right.

Much more deep than that. And so it requires a lot of support. I spend at least 10 to 12 hours a day supporting staff, and I'm one person, right?

Yeah.

So imagine, right, imagine if I had a team of maybe 6 where we could split up the facility and each take, you know, a portion of the facility, you know, 20%. And then we would make much more impact if that was possible. But of course, you know, you know, we have to talk to the people who pay the bills, right?

Right, right.

So that's my little tangent about that. That's my little piggyback on to what you did. And so congratulations, truly, because that's so important to identify that, you know, you're going to make more impact if you share what you've learned along the way with others who are in a similar situation. And you should make lots of money doing it as well. You really should. You should profit and be able to make a nice living for you and your family because you're setting others up for success. And I don't know anyone who has a sane mind who wouldn't spend thousands of dollars to have that support, because I certainly would.

So, right, yeah. And people— and people, yeah, people are, and they're realizing it. And I think from the same levels that you just said, they probably— they saw it in nursing. And some people who I've talked to have said that, like, they saw it in their nursing transition. Yeah. And they were like, no, no, no, you know, I'm to this next transition. I don't want that, you know, I don't want that. And so they're willing to invest outside of their, you know, organization.

Correct. Because sometimes the schools just don't have enough resources to get you what you need, and your organization that you work for certainly doesn't have the resources to get you what you need. So sometimes you need to resource, you know, outsiders such as yourself who have the products and services in place to be that extra support to see them to success. Yes, that's what I do. It's the same thing I do with my business and helping people pass the NCLEX and, and all of the writing and things I do. It's because had they had those resources available to them, they wouldn't be in the position they're in. So awesome, kudos to you. So let's talk about that. How long have you been doing this to support, uh, nurse practitioners, um, in your specialty?

Yeah, so I— well, how long I've really been doing it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, not as a business, but yeah, even, even before you started a business you've been doing it? Yeah, I graduated in 2011, um, started my first position at the, at the early January 2012, and then I started doing it probably August 2012.

Nice, you realized right away.

Yeah, I started August 2012, like it was starting to happen, you know, not on a big scale but just little things. Everybody was like, oh yeah, Kirby, I saw you, I saw you were using something to do that interview, can I see what you got? And that's kind of where it started, like, and it was, that was my own template I created, right? And, you know, just sharing it with other people, like, yeah, I use this, I find it, you know, much easier than what's in the EHR to just get my thoughts, you know, together.

Nice.

Perfect. And then how long have you been running your business and what is your business called?

Yeah, so it's— it is called the PMHNP Source. I'm the source for psych nurse practitioners. And, um, I have been running the business, the actual business according to the IRS, um, since 2023, early, early this year. So the beginning of this year, um, and I started off with doing individual sessions, just trying to get like, you know, I talked about earlier, I've been a psych nurse practitioner for 12 years. And so I understand that some experiences are similar, but some are not.

Sure.

And I, you know, I, you know, between those 12 years, I do understand that. So I wanted to do those individual sessions and start with individual just to see what kind of things were still the same, right? What kind of challenges were new that, that I heard a lot of different people, you know, speaking to. And now I'm coming. And now I have a program that launches Well, it's already out, but it doesn't officially start until October 12th.

Okay.

Um, but I am currently taking registrants for that, um, program, and it's a 10-week mentorship program for new psych NPs with zero— and I did zero to 3 years experience because, you know, 3 years was the start of COVID So there are some persons who did start and they have 3 years, and so you're like, Kirby, that's not really new, but that was a rough, you know, that was a rough period. So I don't want to expand it to 3 years. So this, for those people who might be in that position, that makes a lot of sense. There's still a place for you because I know that maybe you were in some unfavorable situations in the beginning, right?

That's actually— that actually makes a lot of sense. And that's something that, you know, all of us should be taking into consideration when we're hiring new nurses. Um, even if we have nurses coming to us with, you know, 2 or 3 years of experience, we have to understand that there's going to be major gaps in their clinical competence, their critical thinking capacity. They come to us with a lot of bad habits, unfortunately, because of how traumatic everything was. And yeah, they were in survival, survival mode the whole time rather than, you know, really elevating their critical thinking and making ideal choices. They were making choices that they probably didn't want to make, but they had no other choice. Um, so these are all considerations that we need to think about when we're trying to bring people back to the basics of high-quality nursing care, whether it's at the medical level or at the bedside, you know, nursing level. So yeah, absolutely. So how can people get in touch with you, Kirby?

Yeah, so the two best ways to get in touch with me are through LinkedIn, which Kirby Williams, you'll find me, um, or you can get in touch with me through Instagram, and I am @yourpmhnpmentor on Instagram. And that is the greatest way to get in touch with me. Uh, both places have my Linktree that is connected to all the things, um, you know, all the things to my website and everything and what I'm currently offering. So whenever you are listening to this podcast, even if a cohort— cohort, sorry— has passed, it'll be information on there about, okay, the next one starts at this, you know, this time, and this is when it'll be. So you can prepare yourself for the next one if that's something that interests you.

Awesome.

Very good.

And I'll make sure that I have all of the ways that people can connect with you in the show notes of this episode. And, um, I just want to ask you, Kirby, are you part of the National Nurses in Business Association?

You know, someone that I believe you know asked me this as well.

Farrah.

Farrah.

Oh, yeah. Farrah LaRon.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And your answer was not yet, right? Right.

It was not yet. And I really wanted to go to that conference. Did you go?

Of course. I go every year.

Every year. I really wanted to go.

Every year.

It wasn't in my cards to go. But I do want to make it something that I do this coming year, 2024. Yeah, it's got to find out where it is.

It's in— it's in Orlando.

Okay.

And it's in July.

Great flight.

Okay, so you're on the East Coast, right? Where are you at? Right.

Yep, yep, yep. That's straight flight. July, my birthday.

Where are you located?

I'm in Virginia.

You're in Virginia? What part?

Richmond.

Okay. I'm in New York City, so, you know, we're on the same side of the world.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that's an easy flight for you. Yeah, we'll be in Orlando in July this year, so I'm gonna make it a dual trip, Disney and NBA, might as well.

Yeah, since you're there.

But look, even before going to the conference, you should become a member. Just go online, become a member. There's tremendous amount of resources on there. And since, you know, this episode talked about entrepreneurship, we talked about leveraging your skills and talents to create a business to serve others, to find more career alignment and satisfaction. That's exactly what the National Nurses in Business Association does. It is a army of nurses, some who have been in business for decades making millions of dollars a year, up to folks like you and me who are relatively on the newer side of business, where we are not making millions perhaps, but we're still making a good chunk of money by helping other folks. And, you know, it is enough to supplement your income. But why stop there when we can continue to impact and help as many people as possible? So NNBA is really an amazing resource. I highly recommend that you join that organization. So awesome. Just waiting. Yes.

All right, thank you, thank you for— yes, now that a second person has said it, good.

I hope that I see you in the member directory very soon. And, um, yeah, so Kirby, hey, you're in the network. I'm so glad that we had an opportunity to connect. I'm so glad that you came on the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast to share everything that you're doing to support the profession, to improve outcomes, and to really help folks align with their passion and their purpose, because that's what it's all about, right? Yeah.

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me and reaching out and for us connecting. I'm so happy that we did this.

My pleasure. I look forward to seeing you in Orlando.

Yes.

All right, Kirby, thanks so much for being on the show. And we'll talk soon. Take care.

All right, thank you.

All right, bye-bye.

Bye.

And that concludes episode 10 of season 3 of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this episode's guest, Kirby Williams. We hope that everything that we shared for you in this episode will help you to fuel and start your professional journey as a primary Primary Mental Health Nurse Practitioner with the assistance of Kirby Williams. Every way to connect with Kirby will be in the show notes of this episode. And as always, if you have any questions about anything that we shared, please feel free to visit thenursespeak.com/contact and get in touch with me. I would love to have a conversation with you. So until next episode, take care, be well, and remember, that nurses can do anything.