Season 2: Episode 4: Ashley Hay - Using your Nursing Knowledge and Skills for Career Success when Clinical is no Longer an Option!

Thank you for joining me for another episode of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this week's guest, Ashley Hay. Ashley is an experienced oncology nurse by trade and has merged her passion for medical education with her love of reading and creative writing to start her very own business, acting as a freelance medical writer and clinical consultant for the past 5 years. So let's welcome Ashley to the show. Welcome to the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast, brought to you by The Nurse Speak, a show where we rally some of our nation's greatest nurse leaders, educators, experts, and advocates to tackle some of our greatest challenges that the nursing profession faces. My name is Damion Jenkins, and I'm your host for this show. So sit back, relax, and get ready to learn that nurses can do anything. Okay, Ashley, thank you so much for joining me on the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast. Why don't you take a moment to introduce yourself for the listeners, let them know a little bit about who you are, where you started in nursing, and where you are today.

Hi, well, thanks for having me.

My pleasure.

Um, so, uh, I am an oncology nurse by trade. Um, I went into school pretty young. Um, I started, uh, nursing at a New York City hospital, um, right after my 21st birthday, and then just continued with that population in a number of different settings, um, and with adult and pediatric patients. Kind of back and forth. And then, after kind of going out on disability a number of times and just not being able to keep up with the physicality and, you know, emotional demands of nursing, as we all know, I had to pivot. And now I have been in business for just short of 5 years, medical writing and clinical consulting.

Wow. So you were faced with some kind of medical condition, chronic illness, and you just couldn't keep up physically and mentally, which many of us who don't have any of those problems still struggle to keep up. So kudos for you for not just completely leaving altogether, um, and deciding to pivot. So, um, how long from the time that you realized that it was becoming too strenuous physically, mentally, emotionally did it take for you to make the decision that you were going to pivot and do something else with your nursing skills that wasn't bedside?

Well, Damion, let me just tell you, I'm a very stubborn person. So admittedly, it took me quite a while to admit, mostly to myself, that I couldn't really keep up anymore. You know, I was diagnosed with a primary immune deficiency in my teenage years, and that basically means that, like, what, you know, most of us, the antibodies that we make, they protect you from infection and a number of other issues. I don't make them naturally. So I was busy getting infusions and just not feeling well. But I thought, you know, nursing is my passion and I love nursing school and I struggled even through those clinicals, but I thought, okay, well, this is what I chose. This is what I want to do. And then I think I just didn't really know the right questions to ask or people I could go to and confide this in. I think at the time, you know, I was young and I didn't have a lot of support or direction in terms of like who to disclose this to and where to get help. So it was something that I really tried to hide for a long time. You know, I wasn't sure if I could confide in my nurse manager and my mentors. And looking back, I really should have, right? Because I would have found out about things like FMLA and, you know, a lot of this assistance a lot sooner. But just kind of going through year after year working night shift, you know, I pivoted and then I went into another unit where, you know, it was day shift, but I was also going back to school at the time. And then I pivoted and went outpatient thinking maybe, you know, that shift might be a little bit easier on me physically. It wasn't.

It is not. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and then, so I just kept trying to pivot within the same space over and over, you know, 12 years. And then the, um, you know, my symptoms really just progressed and changed and I started developing a lot of autoimmune disease. Um, You know, and that really was what was kind of knocking me out. So between battling infections and then having all this chronic joint pain and other issues, I just really couldn't keep up. So I went out on disability a number of times starting in, I guess I would say my mid-20s. I, you know, moved out to California. We thought that would really help, a change of weather, a change of pace. And it did for a little bit. And then everything kind of came rushing back. And once I realized I was not the nurse I wanted to have taking care of me anymore, you know, I was in pain, I was tired, I was cranky. I know I was giving my patients good care, but I wasn't giving them great care. Right. And that was when I kind of realized, like, I need to really think outside the box here. Do something different. But I just, you know, my ego was so wrapped up in, in being a nurse for so long, and it was so much of my passion that I really wanted to try to find a way to incorporate all of my knowledge and experience in a way to still help my peers and, and potentially patients.

Yeah. So, you know, you've identified a challenge that plagues many of us in nursing, you know, whether it's illnesses or injury that are not directly related to the job or directly related to the job. We get worn out and we get worn out really fast. And again, just for those of us who don't have some of these issues, even we sustain injuries. We wear ourselves down. Our immune systems start to fail us because of the stress and the pace and the constant giving and not having a lot of time to refill or recharge our, our own energy stores, right? So this is something that contributes to burnout and contributes to compassion fatigue. And although it seems like, you know, you had your own issues that were beyond the typical, many of us are faced with making the choice. How do we stay in the profession? How do we continue to be a nurse and care for our communities if we're not at the bedside? And so you figured out a way to do that. So let's talk about that.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, to speak to that, I think the issues for a lot of us, you mentioned so many of them, it's never really just one. It's never just that it's too physical or just that it's emotionally exhausting or just one thing. It's often compounded year after year. And now with the pandemic and things, I can't imagine what providers are going through. Really, it's just so much. But, you know, for, from my perspective, when I was still in the bedside nursing game, you know, the hardest thing for me, like I said, was really to just admit to myself that this wasn't what was best for me. And then I think what helped me step away was realizing like, this will be better ultimately for my patients as well. You know, like if I can't give great care, then I need to make room for somebody else who's, who's able and willing to do that. Absolutely. Because as being on both sides of the bed rails, you know, you can get some great providers and you can get some not so great, and it doesn't feel good when you're in that bed helpless, you know? And I just didn't want to lend myself to that. So in stepping away, it certainly wasn't a quick or easy decision. I often say like it was really out of necessity. And I certainly could have, I guess, just gone to a different second profession or stayed on disability. But for me, I just really love nursing and I love that it is so versatile. And that's kind of what kept me going. I was in such a low state at that time, like stepping away and just having this huge shift to my ego and thinking like, well, who am I now? If I'm not a nurse and like, I'm not this illness that's consuming me. Who am I? And just in, in the continuous, like, learning in this space, like, wow, nurses are doing so many cool things. Like, wow, nurses own businesses, you know, nurses consult, nurses are just doing all of these things. And it was through that digging that I started to get excited again about my potential, you know, how I felt when I was first becoming a nurse. Like, when you think of all the specialties, you know, I thought, what can I do? And to a lot of my husband's credit, you know, I don't— I think I was in such a low point that I needed somebody's support to like tap me on the back and say, "It's okay, you got this, you know, go ahead, you got the time." So really, you know, I just always had a love of reading and writing ever since I was young. I had no idea if I was still good at it. And that was really how this all started, was just writing very small, very low-paid articles one after another, building up my portfolio. Portfolio. And then, um, just kind of like taking every new opportunity even though it was petrifying. And I wasn't sure if I could run a business. I wasn't sure how to run payroll. I wasn't sure how to start an S corp, you know. But I, I think, um, just gathering info from everyone that had been there before me was really helpful. Um, and especially from nurses in the space. Like, that was exciting to connect with someone else who had kind of forged the path before.

Yeah, and it sounds like you and I have many of the same people in our network who can help along this journey, who have been doing it for many years. And before we started recording, I mentioned the National Nurses in Business Association, which I often, you know, mention them because they've been integral to my success as a business owner and learning how to leverage our skill set to, you know, get the clients or contracts that we deserve, you know, taking an idea and moving it through fruition into an actual product or service that we can sell and make hard, hard-earned cash. And you're right, it's not easy. None of this happens overnight. Everyone does need some form of support system. But nurses often love to help each other as well, um, especially in the NNBA network and the extension of that network. So awesome. So you are doing healthcare writing and consulting. Um, so let's talk a little bit about what that looks like for you, because some people I've had on the podcast before talk about writing and things like that, but maybe your perspective is a little bit different from previous individuals for the listeners. What is that like? How can you take your expertise as a nurse and make money by creating writing?

Yeah. So that was kind of the interesting part is, you know, in the beginning when I was getting my feet wet, you know, I started writing for places like AllNurses.com, which I always recommend to nurses who are interested in starting a writing career. One, they are fabulous mentors and they will really kind of teach you like a little bit of the ins and outs of just you know, journalism for nurses. But also for me, it was really like cathartic during that point in my life where I was given so much autonomy to write about not only my personal journey, you know, and things I was familiar with, but also my nursing experiences, and also educating peers again. So I felt important again, you know, I felt like I have all this knowledge to pass on to my peers, and you know, uh, newer nurses. This is a way that I can still do that even laid up in bed for 2 weeks, you know, typing on my laptop, right? So that was a great start. Um, and then kind of fast forward, you know, it— I started just doing a lot, focusing my efforts on a lot of, um, education. So like, that's my big passion, is to be able to take my knowledge bring it to my clients and say, hey, this is the nurse's perspective. It's great that you have this for physicians, but this is not the info that's important to the nurse. You know, what we wanna know is management of AEs, you know, this, this, and that. What we wanna see is more of these kind of visuals. And then in teaching patients now, I've been really fortunate to be able to get into this rare disease space. Educating patients and working with patients to create curriculums, which is just so exciting. And it's really kind of fun to me that this, you know, poor hand that I was dealt with having chronic and rare illnesses just really came full circle. And now I am able to integrate my nursing knowledge, my knowledge of being like what feels like a lifelong patient into further education for other people treating these patients and patients and caregivers themselves. So it just, it feels like a really good and authentic spot to be for me. Yeah. And where, you know, my, my thoughts around this content is it's valuable. And I think that that's a huge takeaway for nurses. Like, don't underestimate the power of the knowledge that you have, because to us, we feel like Well, everybody knows what I, you know, what I do because I do it every day in and out. And what you're forgetting is like, no, we don't, you know. And people outside of the profession certainly do not. But even, um, you know, for example, like outside of a specialty, I don't know anything about L&D, right? Um, but those nurses, you know, that information that they have, there's a huge market for things like that, right? So Yeah, I mean, just leverage that knowledge and power you work so hard for.

Yeah, that's— I mean, that's incredible. Um, that's what I think many of us, you and I, like when we get to a certain point in our nursing career where we're realizing we either have to step away for personal reasons, or we're stepping away for ethical reasons, or stepping away for reasons, um, of self-worth, right? Some of us say, okay, I'm done with that because this isn't working for me, my family, or what I even want my career to like. Um, and so finding out how you can leverage your skill set to create something to still be a nurse and still provide nursing care, whether it's through education, consulting, a healthcare service, coaching— there's so many things. Um, and this is really what this podcast is all about. There's always a way to pivot, to leverage that, um, passion that you have to do something that is autonomous, um, something you have more control over, and it gives you an opportunity to learn an entire new skill set that we don't get taught in nursing school, which, you know, business— we have to teach ourselves business, right? You didn't go to business school, right?

I wish I did.

Yeah, me too, right? I wish I would have gone. I actually considered going to business school to try to brush up. Maybe I would learn some of the things I need to know at a faster rate. Um, but we have such an amazing network of professionals who are very successful, who are nurses, um, killing it. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So there's always an opportunity to connect. And, and speaking of connecting, so you have your own writing business. Are you solo in the writing or are you hiring out for, uh, jobs? Like, where are you right now in the space? For our listeners?

Yeah, so I've kind of gone back and forth. I have had a number of clients, you know, with bigger jobs ask me if I would consider subcontracting, and I do very often refer out work, especially if it's outside of my specialty. So for example, if it's like a labor and delivery project like I just mentioned, I'm not the person to write that for you, right? But I can put you in touch with somebody who can. So yeah, referrals are definitely always up for grabs, you know, if you are in the space and, and you have a special definitely let me know. Subcontracting for me at the moment just hasn't quite been in the cards. It's not something I'm ready to pursue yet. Sure. But, you know, that changes, at least in my mind, every few months. So, so we'll see, you know, I'm always open and I really just love connecting with either people who want to get into the space and are just looking for, you know, a little bit of support or info or resources. You know, feel free to reach out anytime.

Awesome, perfect. Well, it seems like you and I have a deep passion for nursing education. Um, it's really how all of this started for me back into nursing school. I was inspired by many of my professors, and I also identified opportunities for improvement. Um, and then just each step through my nursing career, just into the first 6 months, I had identified so many areas that needed improvement and so many opportunities that I was like, this is it. I feel like this will keep me energized and moving forward in my career forever. And it has done exactly that. So, you know, I've had some jobs I didn't love so much, and I had some jobs that I absolutely adored, but every single one of them I focused on improving my nursing knowledge. So then I can use that to educate others, whether it's my patients, my colleagues, new hires, students, you name it. I'm very much into education. So you and I will probably be collaborating here in the near future because I'm always looking for opportunities to share what I've learned in the form of curriculum design and content creation. So this is awesome. See, see that, guys? Nurses really can do anything, especially when we band together. So awesome. So how can people get in touch with you? Where can they find you?

Oh yeah, um, so you can go to my website. It's aha— a-h-a-y-nursing.com. Um, you can find my email there, my contacts, my Instagram. Um, it's pretty much everything is under the same, uh, AHA Nursing tag. So I am pretty easy to find, and I look forward to hearing from some of you guys.

Awesome. So for those of you listening, I will have all the ways to connect with Ashley in the show notes of this episode. Ashley, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with me today. And again, we're going to be collaborating here in the near future because I have lots of ideas, and maybe you can teach me a thing or two in the process as well. So thanks again so much for being on the show, and we will be connecting soon. Take care.

Thanks. Bye.

Just after saying our goodbyes, Ashley had one more very important thing to say.

I would just say, you know, there's a lot of us out there that I think need to hear this, that there's really, there's no shame in stepping away from the bedside. I was met with a very varied response from a lot of my peers when I did step away. And I think whatever the reason, you know, personal, professional, health concern, not, it's just, you have to know that it's okay and you're the most important thing. So if it's not working for you anymore, You can pivot, and that's kind of the whole point of what we were talking about. You know, find your, find your new desired space, identify opportunities for improvement, and, and go that way. But, um, I just, I know I felt a lot of guilt and difficulty, um, leaving the bedside, and I just want other people to know that it's, it's okay. You know, it does— you don't have to stay there forever if you choose to go somewhere else. That's That's perfectly okay.

Wow.

We're here to support you.

Yeah, yeah, that's so perfect because we all struggle with feeling guilty, like we're letting down our patients or letting down our community or we're letting down our colleagues who are hanging in there and then deciding to, you know, fight the good fight on the front lines. And, and sometimes we feel like— and again, we're conditioned to feel this way sometimes through our schooling and through the way our healthcare system is created that if we're not providing direct patient care, then we're not living up to our full potential, or that we're not in alignment with our roles and responsibilities.

Exactly.

But as we gain more experience and more insight to what nursing really is, then we realize this is— direct patient care is a fraction of what nurses can do and a fraction of how nurses should be utilized. Exactly. So awesome, thank you so much for sharing that. That's very valuable information.

I hope it helps.

And that concludes episode 4 of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this week's guest, Ashley Hay. All of the ways to connect with Ashley will be in the show notes of this episode. And as always, if you have any questions about anything we covered you can visit thenursespeak.com/contact and get in touch with me. I would love to have a conversation with you. So until next episode, take care, be well, and remember that nurses can do anything.