Strengths-Based Conflict Resolution Skills for the Nursing Profession! Season 2: Episode 8 - Teresa Sanderson

Thank you for joining me for another episode of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this week's guest, Teresa Sanderson. Teresa has over 30 years of nursing experience, is a certified case manager, a certified Bank IOS coach, and has owned and operated a hospice agency and adult group homes. She spent much of her career in nursing leadership and administration, and she believes that communication is vital to ensuring a positive nursing work environment and maintaining optimal patient satisfaction. She teaches nursing leaders and healthcare professionals how to improve communication and increase understanding so they can create a positive culture in the workplace and lead their teams to excellence. So let's welcome Theresa to the show. Welcome to the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast, brought to you by The Nurse Speak, a show where we rally some of our nation's greatest nurse leaders educators, experts, and advocates to tackle some of our greatest challenges that the nursing profession faces. My name is Damion Jenkins, and I'm your host for this show. So sit back, relax, and get ready to learn that nurses can do anything. Okay, Theresa, welcome to the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast. Thank you so much for being with us today. Why don't you go ahead and take a moment and introduce yourself to the listeners? Let them know a little bit about yourself, where you started in nursing, and where you are today.

All right, all right. Well, thank you again, um, for the opportunity to connect with your audience. I think this is just an exciting space to be in. Um, I have been a nurse for 31 years, so that means I am old, getting old. But I started out in nursing, really, it was, it was definitely kind of a life turn for me because I'm originally a music major, started out as a vocal major, love writing music, theory, composition, but, you know, fell in love, got married, had a baby, and life dictates what?

Yeah.

Practicality, right? So I was blessed to live like 30 miles from one of the best nursing schools in Texas. And that's where I'm originally from. And it just kind of fell into place. And I have been really blessed with the idea that, or just with what has happened since, is that it's just been serendipitous for me that I never expected to land here, but have totally, totally loved and embraced these 31 years. And so during that time I've done, you know, med-surg nursing. I've done a lot of home care and hospice. And that is my first love in nursing is home and community-based nursing. I've also had the opportunity to own my own hospice a couple of aging care homes. Um, and those are things that, you know, I'm an associate degree RN.

Mm-hmm.

And so I, I love the opportunities that I have now because now I'm a nurse entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. And so I have opportunities now to just share with nurses who think, you know, I'm not enough. I don't have enough education. I don't have enough training maybe to hang up my own shingle. And so now at this point in my career, I'm able to do some nursing and also nurture other nurses who aspire, mm-hmm, uh, to perhaps have businesses of their own. Own. But, um, all throughout these 30 years in nursing, there has been that underlying theme of nurses eat their young, and it has always been my passion to have an impact in nursing. And at this point in my career, I don't want to let it be said that I didn't attempt to have an impact on the profession.

Yeah.

So that, that's truly where I'm at. Um, these days is what kind of legacy can I leave behind? Can I— I've been able to do a lot of things in nursing that I never dreamed I'd be able to do. And I think this is one of those big onions that probably everybody thinks there's nothing I can do about that. Right. But you know, if we don't try, nothing's gonna happen.

That's right.

Yep. That's where we're at.

That's incredible. You've done a tremendous amount of work already, and it looks like you're still lining yourself up to do more tremendous work. So kudos to you and thank you. I wanna thank you for your service, honestly. Because, you know, you paved the way for younger folks like me who have only been in it just over a decade, which, you know, that's, that's still a long time. Excuse me. 12 years I've been a nurse, but you know, in the 12 years I've done a tremendous amount as well. And yes, what you're saying with the whole, you know, the nurses eating their young, the constant struggle that has not changed in the 30 years that you've been doing this work. And it's the same now. So, you know, getting into that issue, where are we with that now? I know the pandemic has made it worse. Um, are you familiar with Dr. Renee Thompson from the Healthy Workforce Institute?

I am not familiar with Dr. Renee.

All right, well, we're going to get you in touch with Dr. Renee Thompson because she is, um, one of our nation's experts on workplace bullying and incivility. And she helps institutions put in the necessary work to eradicate that, to be able to identify it, call it for what it is, and then hold their team accountable so that that's not the ongoing, you know, narrative. Because that's what's happening is it becomes the ongoing narrative. It becomes workplace culture, and then everyone just accepts it. And that's not appropriate.

Right.

Not appropriate.

Right.

All right. So tell me about when in your 30 years of nursing did you recognize this as a problem and decided that you were gonna start to do something about it?

Well, um, as you mentioned, I mean, this is a decades-long problem. Nurses were suffering long before the pandemic. The pandemic only made it rise to the top and suddenly everybody in the nation can see, right? Everybody in the world can see. And, um, so for me personally, this actually happened during my nursing clinical rotations.

How about that? That's when we all experience it, right? We're all thrown in and shocked and appalled and intimidated when we are basically bullied while we're still in school, right?

And there we are working for free extra hands on the unit. And you know, don't you take my linen, don't you? All of these little power struggles and, oh, you're just in the way in the med room. I remember though, I took it to my instructor because that was at the, like my last semester in nursing and I was actually serving as the charge nurse for my student group. And I took it to her. I said, you know, we're really encountering all of this stuff and I didn't even know what to call it then. And she and I together went and met with their charge nurse and she told them, she said, you know, if we're not a benefit to you here, if you don't want us here, we don't want to be here. And I thought, you go, girl, because she just really stepped up and advocated for us as students. And suddenly everybody's behavior changed immediately. That's the thing. When we, as you say, accept it, when we begin to accept this as a cultural norm and nursing just is what it is, it's always been lousy, it'll always be lousy.

Then it's going to be lousy.

Yeah, it's going to self-perpetuate, right? Because, you know, and if somebody treated me that way as a brand new nurse, I'm learning how to treat new nurses that come on after me, right? So it's a shame that that's part of the preceptorship that we get, because we teach other nurses how to be mean-spirited, how to be bullies, how to be just disrespectful to their coworkers. When in my opinion, new grad nurses are diamonds to be polished.

Absolutely.

They are brand new. And if you are struggling out there in the nursing workforce and you don't have the support that you need and people can't get hired or people keep quitting, stare that in the face. Yeah. Have you contributed to that at all? I mean, this is personal responsibility here. It's so important. Um, you know, that nurses just take ownership of it, but, um, absolutely. Yeah, so I've seen it everywhere, truly, in 30 years of nursing, everywhere I've been. And I'm only—

every position, right? Every position you've been in?

Yeah, yeah. With the exception of when I owned my own hospice. And that was—

how about that? Because you set the standard for— exactly, you know, behavioral expectations. So if anyone worked under your organization, then they didn't engage in those types of behaviors, because if they did, you would identify it, correct it, and that was that.

And it would have its way of correcting. I mean, some people you can really work with. I think that's really important to, to know and understand, is that there are some people who are going to be receptive to that, and there are some people who are not going to be receptive to that. And to those people, somebody told me early in my leadership career, we have to help them find their happiness. And sometimes that means releasing those people.

Exactly.

And that has always been hard nursing because we have always been understaffed. Um, but it is a necessary thing if we're going to grow our teams. People need to know— nurses need to know and understand that when they are disrespectful to each other, that when they bully each other in the workplace, there's zero tolerance for that.

Yes, absolutely.

Nothing will ever change without that.

So yeah, absolutely. So I want to piggyback off of, you know, finding their happiness, you know, placing individuals where they will thrive, which is something that I'm doing with my, you know, life's mission for nursing and the profession is to really help people enter into the workforce and then stay in the workforce by developing those strategies for success, right? Finding the things that help them thrive. And even with our bullies, there are roles that we can place them in where they will thrive, but they should not be managing other individuals. They should not be, you know, patient-facing. Maybe they need to be doing chart auditing or some of kind of the more administrative roles where they don't have to interact with other people, and that might be their happiness or their strength. And so we always have the option of transforming how we view our nursing workforce, especially in healthcare organizations, because right now a nurse has to be direct patient-facing or they have to be in a management position and/or education, and that's about it. They don't get creative with the other roles, with the other trillion responsibilities that there are in managing these organizations, where nurses with their skill set could do really well with those managements, but, you know, maybe take some of the load off of the direct care nurses. And so there's— we have lots of opportunity for—

agreed—

shaping the way the nursing profession looks. Um, we already are But we need to get the hospitals and healthcare organizations on board with this vision. So we don't have to fire all of the bullies. We can put them in positions where they thrive better. But yes, if they're being— the point there is unprofessional, inappropriate. If they're on a correction plan and they keep, you know, breaking the rules or they keep acting out in that way, then they're not appropriate to be in, you know, a place of employment. We don't have to tolerate that. Right.

Right, right, exactly. And I think, um, you know, just kind of thinking along that line, Laurie Beth Jones wrote, um, Jesus CEO and a few other books. And, um, one of her concepts that I just totally loved is that in music there are no wrong musical notes, there are just right notes in the wrong places, right? And I think that is so valuable because if I think of the personality of a nurse who is maybe somewhat of a Billy or more bully or more aggressive or that kind of behavior. What about utilization management? Absolutely. What about hospital case management where you gotta go toe to toe with the doctors?

Right.

I mean, come on, let's put that to good use there. I agree. There are totally ways to do that. Mm-hmm. But, um, still we have to harness it into professional behavior, but still, you know, um, I have always known that is probably not the best place for me. I'm more of a nurturing personality.

Yeah.

And, um, I don't like conflict all day, every day, but there are some positions that are built on that.

Yes. Right. You have to be, you have to be able to be ready to fight the good fight. And, and so, you know, just to clarify for some of the folks listening, there's a difference between being assertive and aggressive. There's a huge difference between being assertive and aggressive, and aggression is never appropriate. Um, but as nurses, we know, all of us who have any ounce of experience know that if we're not assertive, we're not going to get what we need for our patients. We're certainly not going to get what we need for ourselves. So we have to be assertive and speak up and sometimes go toe to toe with other individuals to get what we need. But there's still a way to do it tactfully, professionally, with effective communication skills.

Yes. Right. Yes. And I love that you mentioned that because within the last year I actually created just a free, and I'm not plugging anything here, but it's an Assertive Communication Skills for Nurses 1.0 CE because it's just so important that we know and understand it's okay to say, I feel this way when you do that. Yep. And I would really like it if we could XYZ. Yep. You know, it's simple. There's actually a formula for that. And if we can just learn it and put it into practice, practice, we will go so much further. Yep.

Call out the behavior for what it is, identify why it's a problem, and then identify what the expectations are following. I love it. That's it.

Yeah.

You know, so I always teach my students and anyone else that I'm coaching or mentoring along the way that whenever something happens that makes you upset, try not to focus on the feelings of being upset and focus on why it made you upset. So what is action or behavior that caused you to be upset. That's what you need to fix. Not the fact that you feel a certain way about someone, because that feeling may never change.

Right.

But in order to work well together, we have to focus on working well together, not building relationships on an emotional level.

Mm-hmm.

That can come later. You can make amazing friends at work. I have many, but there's some people that will never be my friend at work.

Right.

We just have nothing in common beyond the fact that we work together. And so therefore I have to focus on the actions and not so much the feelings that we might have when we're interacting with each other. That's it. Ramayana Jenkins.

Very good.

Awesome. So, you know, you mentioned you don't want to plug anything, but hey, that's what this— this is what this podcast is for. If you have tools and services and products that are helpful for individuals to, you know, navigate this complexity. And I, although I mentioned Dr. Renee and she can't have every space, right? No one can have every space. And sometimes we can work together to really make an impact. And we need to— all of us nurses need to come together, band together to actually make the shifts that we need to. It can't just be one of us doing all the work. It's never going to work, right? You know that, right? You can't change—

we need an army, right?

You can't change the whole profession on your own. Um, but so let's talk about that. This is a problem. You've created some tools. What other interventions or services or products or strategies do you have that other people could take away from this episode today and start immediately implementing to correct this behavior and maybe even stand up to a bully or navigate the complexities of feeling intimidated at work so that they're not thinking about leaving because they can't tolerate the person they're working with?

Right. Such a great question. And as I was pondering this morning, um, this topic, you know, anymore, when I was a young nurse, the phrase nurses eat their young, I don't know, it was kind of amusing, you know, to me to hear that. And then, but now at this point in my career, it's just really heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking to still see it out there and still see it as the expectation. So I would like to So I think there's a decision involved for any and every nurse to just go from nurses eat their young to nurses need their young.

Absolutely.

And then to go from there to nurses feed their young. Absolutely. I think that is vitally, vitally important. We have to make that choice and it's gotta be a conscious choice that nurses and nurse leaders make so that we can move beyond where we are now, nursing as a profession. You know, we all talk about the nursing profession.

Mm-hmm.

I would like to see any other profession who has this underbelly of unprofessionalism in the ranks. I mean, I just think it's, we need to step up as professionals. Mm-hmm. Nurses need to step up as professionals to truly work in the nursing profession. Yeah. Because we are sorely lacking. And years ago when I was a much younger nurse leader, um, a, a manager or a CEO asked me, you know, because he was making this ad for, um, hiring new nurses, and this was back in the late '90s, and he was putting in there, you know, all of these opportunities for advancement and, you know, this and that and the other. And I— and he said, you know, what is this? But it was an ad that was kind of all fluff, you know, in my opinion. And he said, what do I really need to have on here? I said, you know, you need bullet points. What's your sign-on bonus? What are shifts like? What's your shift diff? What This is what nurses are looking for when they're looking at an ad.

What—

how do you compare to the next guy?

Yep.

And, um, and he said, so I'm looking for factory workers.

Okay.

Oh, that was very, very telling, you know, that the, the mentality and the mindset of nurses, um, has changed. So we need to— we do need to look at, you know, while those things are important, when we bring nurses in on those terms You know, it's kind of like what we do in entrepreneurship. I'm going to give you what you think you need, and then I'm going to give you what you really need, right? So once we get you in the door, we need to nurture you and develop you and bring you to a different level. Every career, every job that a nurse takes should build on the last, and that nurse should be refined as he or she goes through the ranks. I mean, that's all we can hope for. So, um, but I think Couple strategies that can easily be implemented by veteran nurses would be when you have a new nurse that you're precepting, first of all, it's an honor.

Mm-hmm.

Um, it says a lot about who you are, your tenure, all of those things, but treat that nurse like a diamond to be polished. Mm-hmm. Treat that one person as someone you wanna be on the unit with for the next 10 years. You know, invest in that person. That's what you're being called to do. And I would ask new nurses who come on, to view the veteran nurse through a lens of compassion, because that nurse has seen it. They've been waiting for you for a long, long time. And so they may be short-tempered with you. They may have less than optimal patience. They probably will, right? So view them through a lens of compassion and don't just think everybody's out to get me, you know? So, because it's, it's a problem all the way around. It's a problem for the new nurse. It's a problem for the veteran nurse. And we just have to come together on it because Both are part of the solution.

Yeah. So just to piggyback on that, yes, we are all under the microscope, right? That is part of our roles and responsibilities as a nurse is to maintain safety and accuracy, right? That's our biggest role. So we're always going to be under the scrutiny of the entire healthcare team, the patients, families, lawyers, right? So instead of trying to throw one nurse under the bus, It should be a team effort to protect each other. So if you see another nurse doing something that could potentially be a problem, you should intervene. I mean, I help, you know, new grad nurses pass the NCLEX, and one question that I see over and over and over again are questions that are asking if a nurse sees another nurse do this, what, what, or which of the following would cause the need for intervention? Or the graduate nurse is doing something wrong, what would the nurse intervene for? Another nurse from another unit. So this is a common issue that they see out there, and they are challenging their understanding of we should be working together to mitigate any kind of, you know, complication or breaking the law or making a med error or anything. And we've seen— we've seen the cases lately, the national case that is so sad, fattening nurses across the world, not just here. Now we're criminalizing errors, which has never been the case in the past. You know, this was not an intentional, you know, act of malfeasance, right? So this should not be a criminal charge. But now we're— now, you know, anything that goes wrong, the nurses are going to be in court and being charged with criminal charges. So this is a major shift in how we need to do things, and I think this is a great place to start. So Perfect. Strategy number 2, what do you got for us?

Well, this is actually something that I got involved with for, um, a totally different reason, Damion. As part of my entrepreneurship, I wanted to be able to reach, you know, up to 300% more people with my messaging, right? So I got involved with this thing called Code Breaker Technologies, and you see 4 colors here, but really what it's about is personality science, and it's being able to, within 90 seconds, identify what someone else's most important values are. And so when I speak to you according to your personality code, I'm going to connect with you on a whole different level. So this is like learning a foreign language, only it's a lot easier.

Yeah.

But in other words, I can show up for you in a voice that is meaningful for you.

Nice.

And that is so— it's such a good thing, a good tool for conflict management, for de-escalating situations. When I I can just speak to you in a language and voice that you can hear and let you know that I really understand.

Mm-hmm.

It makes all the difference in the world.

Yeah.

And, um, so your business relationships can grow, everything grow more positively. Now here's the thing, there are 4 colors, right?

Mm-hmm.

4 personality codes.

Mm-hmm.

Everybody's different. One is your primary code. That is what you most often function in. It's, it's your, 95% of your day voice, right? Your second code competes with the first code. Um, so like these are blueprint and action. So a blueprint personality is somebody who loves rules, credentials, titles, duties, stuff like that. So think attorneys, policemen, accountants. Action personality is somebody who's after fun and excitement. So, um, they want big opportunities, red carpet treatment, stuff like that. The third code though, the reason I wanna mention this is the third code This is a nurturer, and they're all going to be different, but a nurturer is somebody like me that, um, touchy-feely. I love to hug. I want everybody to feel good. I want to— right, right, all that kind of thing. But the third code is the stress code. When we're in conflict, what code is somebody in? They're in this third code. So for me, my code is NKBA. So I'm a nurturer first, I'm a knowledge personality next. I want to know the big picture. I want scientific data. Um, I'm a blueprint third.

Mm-hmm.

So that's when I go into all the regs, criteria, data, right? Anything in there. So it's really important to know and understand that because a lot of our caregivers, let's say there's a patient issue and the family's upset and you have this person coming at you saying, why was it done that way? I don't understand what's going on. I have a question about the doctor's treatment plan that nobody has answered.

Mm-hmm.

That is a knowledge personality in stress, a stress mode. And so if we can know and say, it sounds like you have a lot of questions, let's sit down and talk about that. Yeah, totally diffused. Yeah, see what I mean? And so conflict, nurse-to-nurse conflict, it's the same kind of thing. What code are they speaking in? What are you hearing? And how can you best respond? So this is an amazing tool, um, that can help nursing leaders, that can help individual nurses, that can help physicians going into patient rooms, if we know who's in the room that we're talking to, we can show up as the best version of ourselves to nip conflict in the bud and pave the way for solid relationships.

So awesome. So just for the listeners, um, you know, because I am on video with Theresa and she's holding up these cards, um, hold them up again for me. We have a red card, a blue card, a green card, and a yellow card. And those are the different personality groups that she just mentioned. So Teresa, if someone wanted to find this resource so they can start kind of learning it and then using this for communication and conflict resolution in services or trainings, where could they find that tool?

They can go to an amazing free resource. It's just crackmycode.com/teresa. That's just T-E-R-E-S-A. And when you go there, you're going to be able to crack your own code, find out your own personality. It's a $99 report. You're going to get it totally free. And that kind of gets you into where you can start seeing what products are available and that kind of thing. And I am also a certified, uh, bank or Code Breaker Technologies coach. So I do trainings and coaching and all of that kind of thing myself. So, but that's the first step, and it gets people in the door to where they can connect with me personally.

So perfect, awesome. So I think that's a great resource that everyone should have. It really kind of builds upon what we already know as nurses with the therapeutic communication. Um, you know, we always have to follow the rules of therapeutic communication, and I like that you kind Illustrated that with the stressed individual who is, you know, letting us know that they have concerns. And, you know, if we follow the rules of therapeutic communication with this additional knowledge of being able to identify the personality types, we can really, you know, make that conversation more meaningful and impactful in a shorter period of time. Um, I think that's a great strategy to have. That's amazing. Um, Anything else that you have?

Um, I do have, I mentioned some free CEs for nurses that I have. So the website for those is thenursingconnection.com. And, um, really what I publish out there are self-care CE courses for nurses. So the first one that went out was assertive communication skills for nurses. There's also one about, um, aromatherapy for self-care for nurses. So, um, and I'm adding to that library as time goes on. But all the courses are online. They're simple, easy, take-at-your-own-pace kind of thing so that nobody has to stress, I need, you know, an hour of time. The videos are set up in 10 to 12 minute increments so that you can watch what you can when you can.

So yeah, awesome. That's great. So I think you have a lot of really amazing strategies to help kind of mitigate this nurses eating their young phenomenon. You want to change the language to nurses need their young. And then nurses feed their young. I think that is incredible. That is going to be my new slogan so that we can spread that message so people start to pick up on that and can start manifesting that for themselves and the units or community of nurses that they work with. Um, in addition to that, I just want to, you know, for the listeners, anyone who is a hospital administrator, anyone who has any kind of power financially with making decisions about training or what to do for retention or recruitment. Going back to, you know, when you were talking about the CEO designing the ad and what should be on the ad and how to attract people, you know, I want to say that the comments about wanting factory workers because of the fact that you wanted the listing of, you know, the the shifts and the salary and the sign-on bonus and, you know, tuition reimbursement is yes, those things need to be listed. You have to let people know what they're signing up for. You can't do a quick bait and switch. That's not going to work. It's never going to work. They're going to sign up, they're going to realize that you're not really there to support them financially nor professionally, and they're going to bounce. Um, nurses have so, so many opportunities now that we don't have to be be at the bedside in a hospital. We don't have to be at the bedside in a nursing home. There is not a single new graduate nurse that has to go into the hospital or nursing home to have a successful career. There are plenty of opportunities in the community, and many of us are making our own opportunities by developing our skill set and entrepreneurship, right?

Right.

So my plea to anyone who has those powers is you need to invest in these types of, you know, we need to develop more education, we need to have more training, and we need to make sure that we're really helping the nurses become that holistic, well-rounded, you know, individual who's not going to have a low salary at the bedside, trapped. Because that's what's happening for a lot of nurses, is they're making such little money that they feel trapped at the bedside. And then you want— you expect us to be professional and accountable and help, you know, problem solve every little thing that goes wrong in the organization, but you're only offering $21 an hour. It's not gonna work. It's not working. Yeah.

And then you're gonna pay the agency staffers however much, right?

Correct. And so, yeah, very demoralizing, right? And then you have people like, you know, Just, there's so many other roles in the hospital setting or a nursing home setting where some of the other individuals that are not nurses who don't have the same workload or the same responsibility or the same stress, they're making double or triple per hour than the nurses. So this has got to change. So if you can't afford to pay us more upfront, then you have to pay us more in benefits. You have to pay us more in education. In time off, in, you know, tuition reimbursement, um, and treat us with more in balance. Yeah, and balance. Let us be able to take off time to, you know, I never really— yeah, to grieve when we lose patients or have a family loss.

Exactly right.

Um, so anyone who knows what it's like to give, give, give, give, give, which are, you know, moms for sure. Moms know what it's like to give all the time and sometimes not get anything back. Um, it's the same for nurses. So, you know, even if we don't have our own children, when we're in the space of taking care of others, it's a constantly, you know, giving our energy away. So we have to have time to get it back. And some of these extra benefits help that. It doesn't make the pain go away, but it helps us to recover quicker. Okay, so that's my plea for anyone who has, like, power. Invest in Teresa, you know, call her up, bring her into your institutions, have her teach these, you know, seminars or these trainings for the doctors, for the nurses, um, especially the nurses, because I feel doctors get enough of this extra training, but nurses do not. So we need for sure those systems in place to improve the process, or guess what?, but our whole healthcare system is going to change. Hospitals will be down to, you know, specialty services only, and nurses will be running their very own emergency rooms in the community before you know it. So if hospitals want to stay in business, they have to change.

Important information. Yes, truth, truth. So awesome. Absolutely.

Well, thank you so much, Teresa, for being on the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast today. I will have all of these references and how people can get in touch with you in the show notes of today's episode. And I hope that we stay in touch and can kind of follow each other along and collaborate. And I'll also put you in touch with Dr. Renee Thompson, cuz I think you two can really work together to try to expand, um, a mission that is very similar. So we'll get you connected. Okay.

Thank you so, so very much for the opportunity. Um, love it. Yeah, thank you.

My pleasure. I hope you have a wonderful weekend, and I'll talk to you soon. Take care.

All right, thank you. Bye-bye.

And that concludes episode 8 of the Nursing Strategies for Success podcast with this week's guest, Theresa Sanderson. We hope that you've enjoyed all strategies that we've shared with you in today's episode, and you will be able to connect with Teresa and get access to the resources that she provided in the episode in the show notes for this episode. As always, if you have any questions about anything that was covered in today's show, you can go to thenursespeak.com/contact and get in touch with me. I would love to have a conversation with you. So until next episode. Take care, be well, and remember that nurses can do anything.