09: The Actionable Social Network for Innovators with Ireland Carter of Bricleir

Welcome. This is Startups Unpacked. I'm your host, Dan Hightower, founder and angel investor. Each week, I'll chat with a startup founder to unpack what they're building and talk about their life as a founder. Without further ado, let's dive right in. So Ireland, thanks for coming on the podcast today. How are you?

I'm good, good. Thanks for having me.

The pleasure is all mine. I'd like to start off by asking you how in the world you got into startups.

Yeah, so I actually went to school at Chapman University down in Orange County after transferring from Fordham in New York, and all of a sudden was introduced to the world of economics and business, and they actually had an accelerator attached to the university at the time with K5 Ventures, Tech Coast Angels. So worked with them, and that's where I just fell in love with how startups work in general. You know, everything from coming up with the idea, raising your first check, and actually testing out with a beta group. So got introduced to startups there, and at graduation made the decision to move up to Silicon Valley, where I was working in consulting and basically implementing the technology for these enterprises. From the startups and then worked on Sand Hill with investors on the investor side and just realizing what startups were building, what was being backed. And then also wanted to get my hands a little bit dirtier than sitting behind a desk doing data. So went to a high-growth startup called Deliv, and that's kind of the rest is history. I just was hooked by working with startups.

And I noticed that you, you went from like investor world to, at some point on your resume, Product manager.

Yeah. Yes, I did. At Deliver, I think I started out in the community or operations role and knew pretty quickly that running a startup was something that I'd want to do down the road and was very open about the CEO of that company of what my end goal was and basically determined that the best way to get there was to wear as many hats as possible within a company and what would help me best. is getting experiences, getting experience as a product manager. So that was the role I'd say I loved the most. I think being able to tie what you're building back to what are people going to use and is it going to move our revenue, move a revenue line. So that was a great experience and that was the one I had before coming up with Bricklayer. So

yeah. So like the VC mindset that you brought into your PM role.

Yeah.

Was really— yeah, using objective focus. That's cool.

Yeah. And you kind of— it's— people make this comparison all the time. They like to call themselves these, I think, micro or mini CEOs within an internal organization. And it does require that lens a bit, is you're betting on a feature rather than a company, what's going to resonate with users and take off. And like I said, move the needle a bit with either growth or revenue.

Cool. So before we get too deep into the, into the podcast, I'd love to hear from you what Bricklayer does.

Yeah, so Bricklayer is basically a one-stop shop for innovators. So we work with founders, investors, and enterprise innovation executives, bring them together in one place and help them connect. And that can range from the initiatives that we put out from someone like a Procter& Gamble or a Fast Retailing, where we're searching the startups that could be a good fit, And tapping the VC community, because who knows better about what could be a good fit than the people backing it? So bringing all sides to the table and just kind of creating a sense of community and the workflow that can provide that.

As an enterprise B2B startup founder, that is a real problem. A multi, multi-level, like, problem. Yeah.

And we're sort of eating our own dog food as we're building it, right? Is we need Fortune 500 clients. And we're helping our community get Fortune 500 clients. So the software that we're building for ourselves is exactly what we're then sharing with additional users, the startups who need, you know, the first Fortune 500 or B2B client.

Which side of the marketplace did you start with?

Good question. So because we have this 3-sided marketplace, and I've learned from really great people in the past, if you can avoid going user by user, that's the best, if you have these bulk onboarding opportunities. So we would go to, for example, a fund of funds, work with their investors, and get those investors on, but also at the same time, all of their portfolio startups. So that was where we focused the most, was in the beginning, can we just build up our credible startups? We didn't want to be, you know, another Crunchbase or PitchBook, where we have a ton of data, and, you know, a lot of it becomes stale, or there's no one behind that startup. So on our side, Get vetted startups, have the vetted investors who are backing them, you know, known as unicorn hunters, great hit rate with, with who they're backing. And then focus on bringing on the enterprises because we had the supply there who could fit the demand that these initiatives drew.

Okay. So do you vet them? Like the startups?

Quite a bit. So the startups coming in, you know, we do some light vetting. Folks are able to get referred in. So if an investor or someone else in the community thinks they're a good fit, They get approved to join the community and then we'll approve their product to be listed automatically in the matches that we make. So people can apply to have their startup approved.

So starting out as an enterprise B2B founder, you, you kind of quickly realized that access to your Fortune 500 ideal customer is a little harder than if you're like a B2C company. And by a little harder, like a lot harder. So do you feel like you're providing access Or is it more like RFP streamlining, if you will?

Yeah, so we're doing both. And the way that's happening is we sort of flipped the model. So today, a company like P&G or Fast Retailing, again, we've mentioned before, instead of having to send their innovation team to a Crunchbase or PitchBook or sending out a ton of emails to their network of, hey, do you know anyone that's a good fit in this space, you know, and having to put the work on them, can they actually just come to us, tell us about a need they have, whether it's in the idea stage or they're looking for a pilot program and have a stakeholder assigned to it, can they put that on our platform and make the startups and the VCs do the work to feed off of that initiative with either suggestions or direct applications? So again, just making it easier for these startups to identify a need, not spend a ton of marketing dollars or time, you know, navigating a Fortune 500. Can you just immediately put them in front of a need and a stakeholder? And then they can take it from there.

I mean, you're significantly impacting cost to acquire a customer, right? It's like pretty huge. So the value prop is clear on the startup side. I'm curious, you know, you're dealing with like Fortune 500 innovators. Maybe that's a question, you know, is it— are you dealing with like the innovation team?

Yeah, often it's their innovation team, their CVC side, so the corporate venture arm, you know, for that company. company where they're coming in and from a few different angles. And that's why I say we have this initiatives marketplace, but it can range from a Fortune 500's, you know, corporate venture side has done a fund where they want to invest in startups with a social impact, or like a Procter& Gamble. I have a direct need. I want to do a pilot program with the startups that fit. So we work with various pieces within the Fortune 500, wherever we get a foot in. Is then we can grow it to the rest of the Fortune 500 users who would benefit from it.

So is your success metric maybe match-based? Like, you know, a startup— a Fortune 500 found their perfect solution through—

Yeah, and that's the piece right now that's interesting is by being a one-stop shop, we obviously measure how many initiatives we have, the time to fill them. So instead of working with a consultant, waiting 6 months to get the results of their findings on who'd be a good fit, You know, can we immediately make those matches from the community? And then what's the hit rate? How many matches are actually relevant? Are they going to move forward with? So we have those 3 pieces, but also just in general, the workflow that Bricklayer is providing is saving a ton of time and overhead that these innovations teams are doing. A lot of them we call, you know, having participated in Innovation 1.0, they've gone to conferences, they're working with a plug-and-play, they're They're doing the Silicon Valley tours and not getting a lot out of it or really showing the ROI for what they're investing. So for us on Bricklayer, for a very, a much cheaper cost, you know, can we bring them on one platform, save the amount of people they need, the time they're spending, and just, you know, getting them connected quicker and more efficiently?

So this is so interesting. I've never been on the innovation team or like corporate venture team side. I've been an enterprise B2B founder and I've been a VC.

Yeah.

Do these corporate ventures teams or innovation teams like actually truly spend money on like consult— I don't know, hunters or like—

They spend a lot of money trying to connect with the right folks. And I've done it too. I've gone to the conferences they're at. I've been a part of the immersion tours that they do here. And they're spending a ton of money to try and connect maybe with founders. And what we've realized too is a missing piece is they're not building the relationships with those early-stage investors to know what they're going to be chasing in 3 to 4 years as a solution. So instead, we're bringing those groups together, like I said, at this reduced cost. And it is all taking, you know, they're doing it all in one place with this one-stop shop, aggregating their efforts and more easily able to see their ROI. And what they're spending for it.

Can you talk a little bit about how the VCs that are backing the startups that are using your platform and the corporate ventures or the innovation teams of the Fortune 500s interact with each other?

Yeah, and it's really cool. And some of this is just even retraining on, you know, how they should use Bricklayer and how they absolutely should be focused on building the relationships with the investors, because not enough are doing it. And the ones who are doing it right are the ones who are very much embedded within the VC community out here and know what's coming, you know, coming up next. So yeah, the Fortune 500s who are on are basically putting out these initiatives where, like I said, have a specific need, are looking for a solution, and/or are just looking to chat with the investors around a specific topic to know what might be coming next, or if there are any startups that with a slight tweak of their model could then You know, be a great pilot program partner for them. So we assist with that as well. We allow them to put out these network requests or these initiatives on our platform, and then we'll make the intro. So think of us almost as a software-assisted matchmaker for this community of VCs, startups, and enterprises.

Do VCs source investment theses from the corporate teams? Like, I don't know, if I was an investor, I would be super curious to hear what Procter& Gamble is looking for, like on the bleeding edge of what they're up to.

Yeah, absolutely. And the cool part is, this is why you want more voices at the table earlier rather than later. So if I'm an early-stage investor and I'm backing a company and I see that an initiative has come from a Fortune 500 that's in that space, I want to know their requirements. I want to know a little bit more about how I can now tweak my model slightly to fit exactly what they need. So it's sort of helping. And this is all about your podcast, right? But product-market fit. If I'm building my product in a silo and then I'm going to go spend a ton of money to try and make it work for a Fortune 500, that's not as good as real-time hearing about what can I do to my product where I already know there's a need for it. And so as soon as it's ready, I can just reach out to the stakeholder and sell it, do a pilot program with them. Helping that process is what we do.

So as, as Bricklayer, how did you pre-product when you were ideating on this? How did you go do that? Did you go talk to Fortune 500 and, and ask them how this process was going for them?

Not directly. So I'd say just because, again, my experience by being in the trenches of each side, I was intimately familiar with how they were approaching it, the money that they were spending, and seeing the gaps in how they were finding the right partners and the right solutions. So I already had a lot of context kind of built up leading to this solution. And I think it was a great opportunity that then when I went to, you know, the VC to get funding, told them the idea, walked them through it, and we didn't exactly know how it was going to come out, but we knew there needed to be some sort of virtual command center for these groups to come to daily and kind of implement all their innovation efforts using the software.

Cool. Okay. So post-launch, you've got a V1. Do you remember the moment of initial traction where you're like, oh, this, this might be working?

I think after we started seeing some of the initiatives from Fortune 500s get closed, meaning they put the initiative out, people would apply to it. And then when we'd follow up, it was, oh, we actually moved forward either making a direct investment in that company or doing a pilot program with them. As I'm sure, you know, sometimes That relationship with the Fortune 500 can take a bit longer. So it requires us, even if we make the match on our platform, following up with both sides, you know, 4, 6, 8 months later to hear what actually was the result from that. So we're kind of playing the long game a little bit where we'll make the intro and that's great, but then what actually comes from it is something that we're curious about too and judge our success on.

This is probably useful information for, for first-time Enterprise B2B founders, what is the timeline on average, you think, from, you know, RFI through to signed deal?

From what I've seen, even just in past startups, you're looking at at least 6 to 12 months for a fairly big contract. Again, that depends on the price and how complicated it is to integrate with your, your platform or service. But yeah, you're looking at 6 to 12 months. And a huge part of that is just the discovery time. and kind of feeling each other out. And so on our side, if we can remove as much of that piece as possible, every company is going to have to do their own due diligence and, you know, deeper vetting of it. But can we at least make the top of the funnel for your partnerships be a lot smoother? And we've talked about this before, where if we conquer the initiatives piece and we at least make the match, can we then further extend that partnership funnel, make it easier to extend a standard NDA or due diligence packet that's You know, not unique to every single enterprise, but everyone has one filled. Every startup has it filled out first and then shares it. So there's some cool stuff we can do to minimize that time at each stage of, you know, that 6 to or 4 to 8 months.

That is such an expensive time, you know,

for

a fledgling enterprise B2B startup. You're just waiting, waiting for revenue, and this process just drags on.

Yeah, and part of what we're doing too is also retraining these Fortune 500s, how they work with startups, right? You can't expect to put an initiative out there and not get back to anyone with a response for 6 to 12 months, and a founder's spinning their wheels trying to, you know, connect with you again and keep it going. Can we encourage the ones, I should say, who are doing it right? For example, and I'll use P&G, is they'll put out an initiative for 30 days, and then within 30 days make a decision and let those founders know. About who's moving forward. So even just that piece, communicating and moving quickly, you are seen as a better innovation partner for founders and they'll want to work with you in all your future initiatives again. And so, yeah, it's, it's a little bit of retraining on how that process should go versus how it's happening today.

How— so, so initiatives today, but tomorrow, how far up the funnel do you think you could get? Like, could you connect a founder who's like idea stage with a like very forward-leaning initiative and a pre-seed investor to originate companies?

Yeah, that's actually happening a bit. So the cool part is if an initiative comes through on our platform and say there's no solution today that fits that need. We have platform, I don't know what to call them, studios, startup studios that will then look at those for ideas. And if no one's filling that gap, they'll now go build it, assign $250K, you know, to it, assign a founder who's looking for their next project, and then immediately they have product-market fit because they already see the need.

Yeah.

So we just, they, all they do is like go build the solution and give it to that customer. And so you start to be able to churn out these startups, you know, a lot faster because you're not just thinking about an idea that could be a good fit, building it, and then go spending the money to find the right stakeholder. You are, again, flipping the model to have the stakeholder tell you what they want and build accordingly and back it, right? If you're an investor, it's, it's a pretty safe bet in that case.

You're significantly de-risking your investment.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know what this starts to sound like is like the government's like SBIR like postings.

Yeah, I'll even— maybe this isn't the comparison to make, but I would love if we could sort of become like the godfather of innovation where everyone is coming to us with what they need, right? What the needs and haves are in the marketplace. And like I said, just with that software, you know, assisted matchmaking, can we connect to the right people and meet them where they are? Right? So if you don't have an idea yet, if you don't have funding, if you don't have your first Fortune 500, you know, we can meet you where you are and kind of grow it with you and open those doors.

That's awesome. So do you have any, I don't know, campfire stories or your, your like your favorite storyline for, you know, this Fortune 500 wanted this thing, we found it?

I think the, the coolest ones actually come up just from Those who might not even have a specific need, but are more open to letting the platform and community tell them what they should be doing. So, you know, I won't necessarily say the names, but some folks who, for example, focus on building a sustainable home or sustainable kitchen, they have no idea how they're going to tackle that, but they put that need to the community of VCs and founders, and those folks tell, you know, this company what you should be doing, all the creative things you can do. And that's where I think it becomes really interesting because you might be an innovation officer at a company and you're responsible for coming up with these cool partnerships and ideas, but the people who are building and backing the products, you know, can draw those or connect the dots a little bit more for you. And you should be tapping that community because they want product-market fit. They're going to think about out-of-the-box solutions on how they can apply what they're building to what your company is doing. So why not put them to work?

So before we switch into like fundraising questions, can you speak to your business model a little bit?

Yeah, so we have a subscription model and all sides technically pay. So the investors, the startups, and the enterprises, it just depends on the features that they want. So we have a freemium model where, you know, folks can come in and do the very basic like, comment, share. But in order to apply to initiatives, create initiatives, network requests, attend events, all that stuff, you'll have to have a tier for that. And that ranges from like $149 per month to $2K per month.

And that's, that pricing is standard across all sides of the platform?

Yep.

That's cool. That's awesome. So can you, you're, you are, you have a background in VC. You spent time on all sides of your marketplace. Through the lens of that experience, I'd love to hear about your personal fundraising.

Yeah, I don't think I— and this is where it becomes interesting because every founder, whether you want to get into the game or you're in it, you're reading books, you're on TechCrunch, you're seeing, you know, how everyone else's story is shaping, you know, shaping up. Mine was a little different. And if I had taken everything that I read seriously, I wouldn't have believed my situation. So, you know, when I went to it, I was at Deliv before this. high-growth startup, being product manager. And when I had this idea, I'd already worked with my investor before, right? So the person who was backing that company, Deliveriv, Tim Connors of Pivot North Capital, I got to see how he worked with that founder. And I got to vet him just as much as he got to vet me over a period of, you know, 4+ years. So when I had this idea and was able to go to him for funding, I think it just He understood the problem. I understood it. We got along. We both knew each other from our own networks. And I think that was the biggest piece is I wasn't going to an investor with kind of a cold call, right? Like I had a relationship with him already. So just got to, you know, give him my idea, brainstorm with him, and it just kind of took off from there. And I— the company that I was at, Deliv, I phased out of that company when I got the first check. So I didn't just quit my day job and then go build this. You know, I got the first check and kept building it while then also, you know, phasing out of the last company. So yeah.

I've actually never heard that, the raise money while still gainfully employed elsewhere. That's, that's cool.

Yeah. And that CEO and that investor are both my board members, right? So it was very much, and I think that's the biggest piece of Most people working in startups at some point want to try their own thing. There's a lot of transition between different companies. There's a right way to do that. And I think a wrong way to do it. And I think I was very open about what I was doing with that current CEO that I was working for and this investor. They have worked together for 20+ years, you know, rinse and repeat investors and founders. So they were bought in. It was all a very nice exchange. And so I was able to transition out of that company. You know, for 6 months or so.

That's awesome. So you raised like $250K?

Yeah, we did $250K for the first check.

That was like in 2017?

Yeah. End of 2017. And that was, you know, I'm not a technical founder, so I don't code. But that was basically enough to let's get an MVP built with a great contractor, someone that I had worked with in the past or, you know, knew from my network. And that was really the goal of that $250K. So just let's get an MVP out and let's get feedback from enterprises and everyone as we're doing it. But that was what that money was for.

That's great. And so what was the goal of that MVP? What was the scope?

Just see if we could build, you know, for these 3 sides. It was something new that we were doing. We weren't necessarily just improving on a current product. We were changing the way people were innovating on a daily basis, what tools they were using, how they were connecting. So Yeah, it was, can we actually get startups to be interested and create their profiles and, you know, get approved on the platform? But also, could we find an enterprise to put their initiative out on our platform, and would it result in any suggestions or applications? That's always a piece you're worried about. But we had, you know, good success with it, and, you know, Procter& Gamble, just from our network, came through as our first client to test that. And, you know, they've been a great partner since, but Yeah, I think that was the piece that we were just trying to prove is, could we actually build this idea? How would it look? And would people even be interested in joining? And that was just kind of where we got with the seed funding.

Great. And so you proved that out and then you raised another, what, like million and change?

Yeah. Yeah. $1.3 or so.

That's great. From investors or the same ones?

So the same one led. So Tim Connors of Pivot North Capital led it. And then we got some additional funding from Darling Ventures, Notre Dame, a few folks. To come in and, you know, I also was in the mindset of Silicon Valley where you don't just take any money, you take strategic money. So that was something that I was always aware of. I've been offered, you know, money from other folks that I just didn't want to be in the trenches with every single day. And the folks that I have involved now are a great fit for me and what we're doing.

How did you evaluate doing, you know, SAFE notes or priced?

Yeah, we did a priced round. And I think the biggest piece was that I really trusted my investor who I was starting with, who led the rounds. And then I have a board that I also really trust and has worked with this investor before. And I think some of the best investors are the ones who are comfortable, you know, actually calling up and doing a priced round and naming it. There's a lot of folks, I think investors out there who aren't comfortable drawing a line in the sand and doing it. So that was something that was important to me, someone who was able to do it.

It sounds like you've got great partners.

I do. I do. I really like the people I work with.

That's great. Do you have any like tips or tricks for founders out there trying to raise?

I would say take everything you read with a grain of salt. Don't, you know, take that as gospel, what another founder went through, because everyone's journey is different. And I would say really get to know both the future employees you're going to have or work with, the investors that you're going to work with, and the clients, right? I was really lucky in that every job I had or network that I was in or friends I hung out with up in Silicon Valley were the exact same people that I wanted to go into business with. So the more you can kind of find yourself in that community, something serendipitous is bound to happen. And I think that's sort of what happened with me is I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with the right idea. And I think you'll find that happens a lot if you're with the right people. And I, yeah, I consider myself very lucky, but I also worked really hard for it to get to the community that I wanted.

That's great. And then moving forward, looking into the future, what are you most— this is such a VC question. What are you most concerned about?

I think right now is the piece where we just need to focus on traction, the growth of the enterprise side with initiatives. Like I said, I'm more of a product person, so I was way more comfortable building out the infrastructure, and I can speak to that really well. But now we have to start leveraging additional growth tactics, and that's just something that I can wear that hat. But I also now have hired, you know, recently a great head of sales who's going to come in and support that. We're bringing on some token advisors who will support that growth, and I think once we get the user and hit the milestones that we're targeting right now, we really win, right? The infrastructure is there and it's gnarly underneath the surface. It's not going to be replicated anytime soon. So it— I think we've got the infrastructure, you know, it's pretty solid. And I think if we just continue to tap into these bulk onboarding opportunities with, you know, accelerators and these different networks, these regional networks, I think we win pretty quickly.

Do you find that the Fortune 500s are completely open with their innovation efforts or their initiatives? Or is it a little— are they sometimes more— do they view their point of view on the initiatives that they're prioritizing as like proprietary?

Some are very protective about what they share on the platform. But in all honesty, I also think those are the ones that sometimes you see the writing on the wall. And know that they're not going to be around that much longer because they're not playing. I hate to say that harshly, but I don't think they're playing the game well. The folks who are getting it right are the ones who understand it's about execution. Obviously you're not going to share super confidential stuff in a high-level initiative on our platform. But those who are pretty open about the problems that they're facing get better solutions. They have people, the right people chiming in on them. And they're just, they're getting it done a lot faster than kind of hiding it behind closed doors in a global office, and then trying to maybe feel out who could be a good startup behind the, behind those doors. So yeah, I think it's, it depends. The ones who are really open about it are the ones who we want to work with and understand that. That being said, we also have some varying levels of how they want to post. So for example, we have some Fortune 500s who want to post an initiative as You know, global 2,000 retailer, here's what we're looking for, and only upon matching will their name be revealed. So we have that baked into the platform as well. They don't want their logo, you know, everywhere publicly. That's, that's fine.

That's smart. Okay.

Yeah.

What percentage of them are like cagey about their innovation focus?

Not many. And that's the thing is, if you're on the platform, you understand that you kind of have to play the game a little bit. You have to open You know, up about what you're doing to VCs and startups to fit the solution the right way. I'd say even just the conversations that we have before getting them on the platform, you know, I'd say a good like 15 to 20% just are a little uncomfortable about sharing the details of what they're backing. And, you know, I will get them at some point and they will be on the platform once they see everyone else is doing it. And they realize that's how you can actually win. But yeah, some of those are just earmarked as we'll circle back because they'll have to see that it's working for other folks first.

And how do they do it today? I mean, they're just in their corporate office?

No, they don't do it today. Like, that's the problem is that a lot of these groups, the Fortune 500s we talked to, it ranges so much in terms of their comfort level with what they're sharing, but also their internal practices or workflow around how they share what they're doing. And you'd be surprised, there's a lot of Fortune 500s who don't necessarily— they're not even on the same page about what they're looking for, which makes it that much harder when you have scouts out in the field who don't fully understand what they're scouting. So the folks that are doing it right are open about what they're doing internally. They've gotten a very, a very buttoned-up process. And by the time it's being shared to a community, they've got an assigned budget, an assigned stakeholder, you know, a problem statement. Those are the ones who, you know, are going to come out ahead.

When you think about a Fortune 500 company, like what, what I think about is like, I don't know, let's pick a huge hospital corporation.

Mm-hmm.

And up at the HQ in one town, there's an innovation team who's somehow coming up with a shortlist of innovation priorities. But at the same time, like on the other side of the country, there's this nurse who's like really struggling to just use the software that's in the ER.

Yeah.

Question, are the initiatives on the platform only the ones that, you know, the innovation team at HQ is saying, yes, these are the 3 things that we want machine learning for everything? Or is that nurse somehow able to be like, listen, I can't use my interface to like log patient information?

Yeah, and this is the really cool part where when I get to geek out on the product that we've built. We can accommodate all these use cases, right? So for example, that, you know, corner office in the middle of nowhere, not at the hospital, can actually put out an initiative for something they've assigned internally as a priority. But we also have the ability for people on the platform to recommend initiatives to you and name the solutions that could help you do it. And then we also are getting asked often, okay, well, we have, you know, truckers out in the field where we want to get their feedback. to our corporate innovation team and figure out what the problems are. And that piece becomes really interesting because now we can start to do some cool integrations with, you know, the data wherever they're collecting it. We can now ingest it into the platform for that innovation team to sort through, determine what they want to bubble up as an actual initiative on the platform. So it becomes really cool where, yeah, we can help these companies plug into who's on the front lines, and has really good ideas, can they make those idea recommendations on our platform, at least give the feedback so that the innovation team can craft an initiative from it.

That's cool. These companies are huge. It's really hard to understand the scale of these companies when you're a startup trying to sell in.

Yeah. And you forget, as a— I've been a product manager, and whatever size team you have, it's as simple as walking up to their product manager and saying, hey, can you try and slot this into next sprint? You know, or putting it into planning. It's not like that is at these huge companies. And so even though they're going off a lot of data that they're looking at internally, you know, hearing from the folks using their technology and what they need, you know, if we can play a hand in helping that process, then I think it just makes us even stronger as a platform.

Yeah. Okay. Shifting gears into tech, I noticed you are a non-technical founder. And you mentioned already that you outsourced your development, at least early on. Can you talk a little bit about how you would recommend to others who aren't technical, you know, the options that they have and what you would pick or how you would pick?

Yeah. When I was getting ready to build it, once I had the first check, you know, I talked to a number of agencies who, just to get quotes on what they said it would cost. And some of them, obviously I could afford at the time once I got the funding. But there's nothing really to compare to having someone in the trenches with you each day that's, you know, kind of your person. So I worked with my own network to find this great engineer, full-stack, incredible senior, someone who not only was comfortable building for today, but also for 10 years down the line. You know, what are we building today to make it okay then? And I think a lot of founders make this mistake where And it depends on who you're talking to, their views on this, but we'll work with anyone to get any version of an MVP built. And then as soon as any traction starts to happen, you might have to rebuild that entire thing. I mean, I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to slap together a product. The way we were building this infrastructure, you kind of had to get it right the first time around. So there's always arguments over focus on sales or product first. And we took the route of focusing more on the product, which meant I needed a killer engineer. And I was willing to pay, you know, top dollar for that. So.

Great. How many people do you have today?

We only have 3 full-time. So we have a lot of token advisors and contractors that we work with, but it's just myself. I have an engineer, our head of engineering, who I absolutely love. You know, I've worked with her over 4+ years at the last company. I ended up getting her, which is really cool. And we have a new head of sales. And so we, if, I'm definitely big on if you don't have to spend. I learned this lesson from one of our board members where if you ever think you're going to have to let someone go because of growth, don't hire them in the first place. And so I've been really trying to keep our team lean as possible. I don't think you need that many people for what we're doing. So.

That's great. So what's the, I guess, what is the biggest mistake that you've made so far?

I think it's honestly that piece is, I think the people are really important who you bring on in the beginning. And right now I'm in a really good spot where I have an engineer I trust, a great salesperson. But I think you have to be really careful about who you bring on the team in the beginning. That can completely— I've known a lot of startups out here where they end up having so much internal drama that they end up not building anything, or it's just not a good place to work and not a great environment. And I really wanted to build something where even in the trenches building it, I loved who I was sitting next to and building it with. So I think that's a common piece too, is I see a lot of these posts on Hacker News or wherever where they're just trying to get a co-founder. You don't necessarily need a co-founder, just hire the right team around you as you continue to grow. And that's how I went about it. And at least for me, it's worked well.

Cool. Ireland, did you always know that you were going to be a founder?

Definitely not. I always thought I'd maybe make it to a head of product or maybe a COO at some point of a company that was doing something really cool. But like I said, at the last company that I was at, I had the pleasure of working with a really, really kick-ass female founder, and she also showed me what it was like where everything that she did, you wouldn't have called her a female founder. You know, she was just an incredible founder. And I think I was able to see what she was able to do by just, you know, building great products, building great teams. Nothing else mattered. People pay attention to what's taking off if you're, you know, building cool things and building an audience. So I watched how she approached it, and I think it was the first person Say even female founder that I saw that didn't lead with that. You know, it was leading with, I built a really cool thing. And so that was kind of the direction that I started to take when I realized I could do the same thing, is just build something really cool and sort of that if you build it, they will come. They don't care who you are. They'll show up. So I think that's kind of the message.

That's awesome. Well, as far as I can tell, you're killing it.

So we're trying. Absolutely. I'll talk to you in another year or

two. So speaking of that, I want to make sure that as we wrap up, I get an understanding and everyone gets an understanding of where you're headed. What's your next goal?

Yeah, we'll probably do another round of funding next year, but I think it's, you know, growing this community out. It's the most fun thing right now to have spent years building a product and now start to see these people come en masse and like using your product without having to do a long demo with them first. So that's the piece right now that's really fun is just scaling the user base up and closing out some of these initiatives, helping founders get access to funding, their right deals. So yeah, I'm really excited to see people play with what I built. It's very cool.

Awesome. So I want to ask a couple about a couple of your secret weapons. So things you consider to be near and dear and differentiating. What is your secret weapon for your product stack, your tech stack?

I think just the fact that we've built it with all different users in mind. The piece that I was learning in past startups that I was at, every time a new need came up, we would go build a solution for that client or for that user. And right now we've really built the platform in a way that If a need came from an enterprise client, because I'd been in the trenches on the startup and VC side, my idea is I'm going to build that once and it's going to apply to each side of the marketplace. And so now we've built this solid infrastructure where they're using the same flow regardless of who they are for initiatives or for funding, for network requests, whatever it is. And I think that piece, by being able to wear those different hats and kind of see things from different lenses, I think I think we've done a really good job of it.

Do you have a secret weapon for personal learning?

I'd say just surround yourself with great people and don't, like I said this before, don't take anything too seriously. Everything that you read about these massive valuations tell a fractional piece of the story in terms of if there's ratchet terms there or— anyway, those articles don't tell the full story of what's going on and you really don't have the context until you're actually a founder and knowing what's happening beneath the surface, beneath, you know, an article that's written up about that startup.

So wrapping up, do you have, you know, the audience, if there are any enterprise B2B founders out there or startups, do you have a call to action for them?

Yeah, hit us up. Feel free to sign up on Bricklayer or, you know, email my— find me on LinkedIn or, you know, there's many channels now that you can reach out to us, but We'll get you onboarded, we'll get you in front of clients or additional funding opportunities for sure.

Cool. Where can they find you online?

Everywhere. Instagram, LinkedIn, Ireland Carter, everywhere.

Everywhere. How do you spell it and pronounce it?

Yeah, so it's spelled B-R-I-C-L-E-I-R.com. It's pronounced Bricklayer, and it's basically bricklayer in Old Irish. And so the idea is, We're building these solid foundations, bringing all these pieces together to build a really solid brick wall for these folks to connect. My dad was a mason, so learned it from him, kind of doing the grueling work day in and day out, but loving what you built at the end of the day.

That's great.