Blake Slatkin

I'm Danny Ruderman and this is Extraordinary youy, a podcast that shares inspiring stories of young people who've done incredible things and how they did it. Our guest today is 22 year old Blake Slatkin. While he was in high school, Blake played guitar for his school's jazz band and was invited to play and sing as an opening act at the Greek Theater. He then started a recording studio called the Attic Sessions in, well, his attic, in order to give young musicians an opportunity to record and get their songs heard. After attending the Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music at nyu, Blake chose to leave school to continue working with renowned producer Benny Blanco. He co executive produced Omar Apollo's last project and is currently writing songs with people he's listened to since growing up. Blake, welcome to xu.

Hello.

So let's begin with this. Would you rather have a dog with a cat's personality or a cat with a dog's personality?

That's a really good question. Definitely dog's personality. I'm a dog guy.

As am I. So. Well, thank you for being on.

Thank you very much for having me.

Your voice and the microphone a little different for you, right? For being on the other side of the microphone.

I really honestly like not having the headphones on and knowing that I can just go like this and it probably sounds really annoying in your headphones but I have no consequences whatsoever.

Yeah, it's literally you're screaming at me. So thank you for that. I like that.

I'm so sorry.

So let's start by talking about your upbringing.

Tell me about your family music wise. My dad's a big music fan. My mom also is a classically trained pianist.

I didn't know that.

So she' a pianist and family show, Blake. And I don't know. I grew up with a lot of music around the house, especially in the car on the way to school. I totally remember that. All Beatles, all classic, classic stuff, Led Zeppelin, rock. I was exposed to a lot of different music and then also just like Sarah McLachlan and weird white people stuff. But it's okay. It's okay because it was important for me to be exposed to a lot of stuff. And then I took piano lessons that my mom made me take, which I ended up stopping and then guitar lessons. So music has definitely been a part of my life for a very, very long time.

And so you stopped piano lessons. When did you know that guitar was your instrument?

I think honestly I was really turned off by piano because my teacher was very classically inclined so she wouldn't Even let me play songs until I had the. In quotes, air quotes, basics down. And I. I was just so eager to start playing songs that I knew. And I started playing Guitar Hero. And after playing Guitar Hero, I was like, oh, maybe I should just actually play guitar. And I started playing guitar. And my teacher was so cool. He was just like some old hippie dude, but. But I could play the songs that I knew and loved almost instantly. Obviously, I wasn't that good, but, like, just even the possibility of being allowed to play songs that I loved without having to do all this classical stuff that I didn't care about at the time was so attractive to me. So then, Honestly, it was 10 years old, and then I never stopped.

Great. And so when did you start singing?

I think when I realized that it was attractive to girls. So probably honestly, like, the sixth, seventh grade, I started doing covers of songs and. And it worked, didn't. It? Honestly didn't work. I was not very cool until high school, and then I had some friends, but it did not work. But I do remember that I was the not cool kid in middle school, and no one really knew who I was. And then one day we had a chorus showcase in front of the whole school, and I got to play Toxic by Britney Spears. And I did it in a breathy voice and all this sexy. And I remember that right after all the girls were like, oh, my God, who's that kid? Because I had just gotten my braces off too. Nice. I was like, this is my. This is the day that everyone finds out who I am. And still no one cared, but it's okay.

That's fantastic. Now I remember when you were in high school, you got a gig opening at the Greek Theater, playing. How did that come about?

My tennis teacher knew the guy who owned the Greek Theater at the time. They don't operate it anymore. But he was also Stevie Ray Vaughan's old manager, who was my hero, Guitar hero. And we met, and I think he came to one of my shows at the Whiskey a Go Go when I was, like, 14, and I think he was impressed, and he let me open for a few shows where I also probably didn't really belong, opening for the Doobie Brothers. What? And just weird stuff like that. But, I mean, I love the Doobie Brothers, and honestly, I think the old people liked me, too.

Well, let's go back just one step, because let's say that there's. Obviously, you're from Los Angeles and so you have access to places like the Whiskey, but how did you go from playing Britney Spears Toxic and no one knowing who you are to playing at the Whiskey A Go Go.

How did that happen again? It's really just all people, you know, My nanny at the time had her sister worked at the Whiskey A Go Go, and my nanny just sent a video of me playing guitar, and she's like, oh, this could be cool.

Well, this is an important story because of what's about to happen in your life as you're in high school, when where it really was about people who know people who know people. But it wasn't easy, necessarily.

It wasn't easy, but it's always. To me, relationships are always the way in. Always the. It's the only way that it happens.

So you are playing gigs in high school, and you are playing in your high school jazz band as well. You pick up jazz, so you're performing all the time. And I don't remember the Attic sessions. Was that before you got the internship or was that.

That was way before. Yeah.

Okay, so tell me about the Attic sessions.

I basically. Okay, I just did not know what I was doing, but all I wanted to do was make music and produce music for people. And I thought that I got a little interface and I got a mic and I put it in my attic and I said. I posted on my Instagram. I was like, if any artists need production and distribution. I don't know what I was saying. Distribution. All I was doing was literally putting it on SoundCloud, which is awesome. But I had big dreams and I thought that. That eventually Attic Essence would be a big name and then that would bring notoriety to artists. But I really just got a mic and an interface and some speakers and put it in my attic and hung some string lights so it looked cool and some acoustic treatment that didn't work and just started making really, really not good songs, but making a lot of them. And I was having a lot of fun doing it. And I guess, yeah, that was my first entry into production.

And so were you writing songs with kids at your school or were they coming in and, you know, you were. They already had songs written and you were just recording them.

It was everything, honestly. And I guess I forgot to say that guitar was my thing. But then around, like, 16, 15, 16, I got super into production and just realizing that there were people behind these songs that honestly had way more success than the artists. And even like, that, there were people that gave 30 artists number one hits and you wouldn't even remember the artists, but if you knew who produced them and who created the Sound and who defined music for. At that time, it was just the coolest thing in the world for me. So. So, yeah, I was. I was writing songs. I was also. I think at that time, I was doing a lot of COVID songs because that was easy. Not the easiest thing to do, but that was just like. I think I thought my stuff sounded a little bit better if the song was already good. It was a good breeding ground for my production. And, yeah, just honestly, everything. Anything I could get my feet into.

Blake, when you were in 11th grade and I started working with you, I actually asked you a question, and you had an interesting answer, and I'm gonna do this as a lead in, and then you can take the story from here. So the question I asked you is, if you could do anything for a job, what would it be? And you immediately said record producer. But then your next sentence to me was, yeah, but it's really difficult business to get into, and maybe. Maybe I'll just play it safe.

I think I said that. Yeah. I think. I mean, all I would do at this point was I would watch interviews and podcasts of different producers and people in the industry every single night. Literally every single night before I went to bed, I put on. I think there was some YouTube series that I would watch, a few different ones, and I would put one on every single night. And obviously, a lot of them were super inspiring, but a lot of them are also like, this is a very hard business to get into, which it is a really, really hard business to do. And so I think I had said, I think it's really important for me to intern for someone, because all the producers that I looked up to had had mentors and had been interns at one point, as I think everyone should in, honestly, most industries. But I think I had said, I need to intern for someone. And you said, if you could intern for anyone in the entire world, who would it be? And it was this guy named Benny Blanco, who's a record producer and a songwriter who had already had unbelievable success. I mean, at this point, I'll fast forward a little bit. I mean, he always makes fun of me now because there's literally nothing I can do that could match up to him at this age. When he was 19 years old, he had already had four number one hits.

Really?

It's like this man was making the music that I was dancing to at my frickin bar mitzvah. Wow. He has had hits for so long. And he was working with this producer named Max Martin, who is also one of the godfathers of modern songwriting and Dr. Luke. And he had had so many songs, but he would also, in pop and rap and so much different stuff, which was super attractive to me because I'm a fan of so many different genres of music, and also just seemed like the coolest guy in the world. I had seen every single interview, and he was just the coolest and nicest dude. So you were the one who pushed me, saying, well, if that's what you want to do, then why don't you just do that? I think I had said, well, I don't know anyone who knows Benny Blanco. So you had said, all right, well, then find one. So I was. Sorry. Run at the table. Not a problem. I was on Instagram stalking my friend's mom, which I guess sounds kind of weird now, but it's like, you know how Instagram holes end up. You literally. You're on one page, and then all of a sudden, you're looking at, like, Iranian breakfast and stuff. You're just like, how did I get here? Whatever. I'm on my mom's page or my friend's mom's page. And two years prior, she had posted a picture of her playing poker, and he was in the background, And I was like, oh, my. Jesus Christ, she knows him. So I hit up my friend. My friend was gracious enough to ask his mom, who was gracious enough to ask him, if you want an intern, would you be interested in meeting this kid? He's a really great kid. He'll work really hard. Blah, blah. No response. Then again, it was you who pushed me to say, will you please ask again? So she asked again, and I think they were good friends. So he was like, sure, this kid can just come over. So I went over to a studio that he was at Sunset Sound, which is a legendary studio. It's where they recorded Stairway to Heaven. It's where they recorded all of Led Zeppelin 4, which I've now since gotten recorded into. And it's been, it's the coolest thing in the freaking world. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Took me into a little side room, and the first thing he said to me, he was. He was the best at kind of disarming stuff, but he was just like, you've definitely seen all of my YouTube interviews, because he was the same way. And that's what you are when you're a little kid, and that's what you are if you're a big producer, is you're just a music fan, right? And he had seen every single interview of his heroes. And he was. He knew, obviously. And honestly, if I hadn't, then he should have no business working for me.

That's pretty cool though, actually, that he. That because he did it too. So he knew where you were coming from.

And honestly, everyone does it. Every single big record producer that I can even think of has had some sort of mentor in some way. Maybe not they weren't an intern, but some sort of intern. And he was just so funny and so nice and we talked about music for a while and after like an hour, I remember he makes fun of me for this. Now, there were some other producers that walked in and I was like, I know who you are. They're like, because I think it was Stargate, who were also massive pop producers. And they walked in, they're like, hi, I'm. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, I know who you are. I was just so excited. It was like, that's the coolest thing in the world for a 16, 17 year old.

I can imagine.

Talked for an hour. He said, awesome meeting you, man. Let me talk to the team and see if there's any way to fit you in. And I went on my way and I thought I did a good job, but honestly, I had no idea what was going to happen. And I emailed him after, per your advice and followed up and I got no response, which I now know he's horrible at email and text. Got no response.

For a while.

For a while. For a few weeks. And after, I think two emails, I was like, I don't know, man, I don't think I have it. Something happened. And again, it was you who said, you have literally nothing to lose. What's the worst that happened? This guy thinks you're a nerd or kind of a loser for hitting him up. So what? So I hit him up again and I hit his assistant again. And just finding any way to get through to him and he responded, he was like, yo, this is when he was bicoastal. He was like, yo, I'm gonna be in New York this summer, but if you wanna build my studio that I'm building in LA with my engineer, I would love to have you on. So for the first three months of me working for him, it was working like 8, 10 hours a day for free, obviously, without even being with him.

So it's like, didn't you work for one day first? And then like, then they disappeared again, like there was no work. You did one day's worth of work. And then I think I was reach.

Out Again, yeah, I think I was in New York, actually, and I hit him when I was in New York and he asked me to come by the studio just to hang with him and we hung out. And it was. Honestly, it was with one of these rappers that I was such a huge fan of. And we, like, ate chicken and waffles together. Like, he was like, I'd ordered a bunch of fried chicken and waffles, and I was just like, this is the coolest thing in the entire world. And, yeah, then he didn't respond and I hit him even more. And honestly, that's not my first instinct at the time. That was not my first instinct to be pushy like that. That's where I owe a lot to you.

But again, that's the lesson here. It's not that I was pushing you. You learned that that's what it takes. And a lot of people want to help you when you're young.

A lot of people want to help you when you're young, for sure. And especially people who have been helped themselves. And it's like, I always think 100%, I will mentor someone and I will have an intern. And it's like, that's what I owe someone, because I got that. And that's what Benny owed someone because.

He was mentored, too.

He was mentored and he interned, too. He had this guy named Disco D who unfortunately passed away. And then Max Martin and Dr. Luke mentored him and taught him. And I mean, that's the most. It's incredible. It's like the luckiest thing in the entire world to get to learn from people like that and just to be around greatness. So. So, yeah, I think he was definitely inclined to have me. I was. I was a nice kid. I was not. I wasn't hard to be around. I was all. I knew my place in the studio, which is super important.

What does that mean?

I mean, I wouldn't really talk unless spoken to. And it's like, if I'm lucky enough to be in these rooms, in these studios, on couches, I'm not going to be like, obviously you're not going to say, what about this line? Like, oh, my God, I can't even think of what would happen. It's like, they don't want my opinions, right? But I just got to watch and sit there. And finally, after the summer came to la, and then every single day, I thank God for Crossroads School. By the way, shout out Crossroads School, who let me use that internship as my art requirement? I think. Or maybe I just Completed my art requirement. So I got to leave school every day at 12 o', clock, be at his studio by one. And it's like, for that entire year and for three years after to sit in the room with these people that I'm the biggest fan of and I listened to for so long and get to have this relationship with them that was definitely more casual, but just got to watch them make music.

Who did you get to see?

Who did I get to see? The Weeknd, Travis Scott, Francis and the Lights. Ed Sheeran. Who were the other cool ones? Oh, my God. Julia Michaels. Ryan Tedder of One Republic, who's also one of the greatest songwriters of all time.

And you would just sit and listen and watch them record their albums.

Yeah, and that was my payment. It's like I worked for three years for free, and I was fortunate enough to be in a position to be able to do that. But, yeah, I would do all this bitch work and I'd do ridiculous things. And I think a lot of times he was even testing me just to see what.

Can you give me an example?

I mean, I had, like. I had to drive three hours to Long beach to pick up a vintage fireplace and then drive back. I had to. I remember. Oh, my God. I remember. I had to. He got a bunch of firewood for this fireplace, and it came on a pallet. Like a. What's it called? A forklift?

Yeah.

It's like the most firewood I've ever seen in my entire life. And he was like, will you move these pieces to whatever this place? It was like something like 50ft and put it in a cool design. So I did it and took me like four hours, and I had so many splinters on my fricking hands. And I did it. And he walked out. And he was not doing this to be a dick. I honestly, I don't even think he realized what he was doing because he was. He was working the whole time, but he was like, honestly, I think I like it the other way. And I had to move it all back. And it's like. And I never complained once, and you can't complain once. And it's like I was so fortunate to even be able to move that pallet of firewood. It's like I'm in the luckiest position in the entire world. I still feel like I'm the luckiest in the entire world because I would do all this work and go get people coffee and buy people suitcases that were flying the next day or buy Ed Sheeran a cell Phone because he wasn't using iPhones at the time and all these different things. But I would do it. And then when I was back, I would get to sit in the studio and watch them make music.

So something got in the way of this three year experiment though. And that is you got into college?

I got into college, yeah. So I got into college, got into nyu. But it did get in the way for a second, but honestly it didn't because Benny was still bicoastal, so he was still living in New York. So I go to Clive Davis and.

For those who don't know, by the way, Clive Davis recorded Institute of Music. Is that what it is? It is the premier production music business program in the country.

It is what you helped me get into and it's a really amazing program. And my first semester I was working for Benny and also going to college. So it was basically whenever I wasn't in class, I was taking the subway over to his house. And it was cool because in class they would always talk about like, oh well, in the real world you're gonna need to know this. And in the real world, blah, blah, real world this. And then I'd literally just take a subway over to the real world and get to see what mattered and what didn't. It was incredible. Again, so, so lucky.

But at some point you had to make a decision.

Some point. A decision about what?

About college, definitely.

Yeah. This is way longer down the line. I'll do super quick. I had never played Benny music. Cause I didn't think it was ready yet. It wasn't good enough.

So you had known him now for how long and you had never played any of your music before?

So yeah, at this point, I've known him for three years and I've never played him at all. And he knows obviously that I'm a song producer and we talk about music I make. But I wouldn't play him anything. It wasn't good enough. And it was really important to me that he heard that. He saw me as someone who was talented, honestly, as opposed to someone who was just really learning.

By the way, was it not good enough?

Oh, it was horrible. Yeah, of course it wasn't good. It was bad. It was actually bad. And I listened to it now and I was like, I can't even believe I did. But of course that's what you have to do. No one's. You're so focused on making good stuff, but it's like you have to let yourself make so much bad stuff before anything good comes out. Because no one is good when they first start. Literally, it doesn't matter how talented you are, no matter how naturally talented you are. It's like everyone sucks, Especially with record production. It's such a nuanced, subtle, impossible thing to learn. So at this point, Benny and I are really close friends as well as me working for him. And it's literally he's like, asking me to hear music, like, every day and making fun of me. And he's literally telling artists, he's like, hey, blah, blah, blah. You know, Blake's never showed me music. And these massive artists that I'm like, a little uncomfortable being around would be like, why haven't you shown a music Blake? And I'm just like, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing.

Sort of surreal. Step outside your body, like, what's going on here?

So, yeah, so I literally. It literally got to the point where my therapist was like, you need to set a date for yourself, because if you don't set a date, you're never gonna think it's good enough, blah, blah, blah. So I set a date at the end of a summer that I was working for him. I'm back from New York. So I worked for him the whole summer, played him music that in hindsight, was cool and definitely showed a lot of promise. Again, sucked, but whatever, it showed promise. And thankfully Benny ended up, I think, seeing the promise and liking it a lot. And then for that year, really took me under his wing even more. And I would show him music and he'd hop on Pro Tools, which is the music making software, and help me and really give me even more advice because there's only so much you can learn by watching. But then when you actually do it and then get notes, it's a lot better learning. So, yeah, playing in music did the year. Ended up taking a lot of meeting, got a manager, took a lot of meetings.

Now, are you still in college at this point?

I'm still in college. Summer started doing sessions with people, like, actual sessions, because publishing companies started noticing me and started looking at me and then would set me up with people. And my manager knew a lot of people. And I had been working with this guy, Omar Apollo, who at the time had very little but was starting to pick up steam. People were starting to notice. And again, just working really, really, really hard.

And finally, let me just interject for a second when you say really, really hard because you mentioned this before, what kind of hours are you keeping at this point?

It's not as insane as what I'm doing. Now, but at this point, I'm definitely spending my entire day doing it. And maybe I'll go out with my friends after and I'll take weekends and stuff, obviously, but I'm spending all my time doing it. My whole life is thinking of, if I'm not making music, I'm thinking about music. Got it. And that's still what it is, and that's what it has to be. Honestly, I don't think that you can be successful in this unless you literally just live and breathe it.

Great.

And maybe that's not the best thing to have for a work thing. And a lot of people would say that that's not healthy, but that's just like, that's what it needs to be. Got it.

So, okay, so Omar, so you work with him as he's just getting started.

Work with him as he's just getting started. He starts to pick up steam. Our songs start to pick up steam.

And now you have written songs for him. With him.

Producers. Not for him. Definitely not. At this point, it was only songs that he had written that he brought to me that I would help him write, I would tweak things and I would help him produce.

Got it.

He's an incredible producer in himself. He's an incredible songwriter. So I was super lucky to get in with him. And yeah, people just start to notice a little bit. People start to talk about me. I start taking a lot of meetings. I start getting meetings with really high up people and getting to go to Interscope and meet with people that I used to drop stuff off for and do all this stuff for when I was an intern. That was really cool. Long story short, Benny ends up signing me to his publishing company, which was like my, like, it's all I wanted was for Benny to sign him.

When that day happened, do you remember where you were, how you felt?

Yeah. He ended up. He came over to my house and we listened to music. And I think one of my friends was there at the time. So he had been planning to tell me one of my friends was there at the time. He didn't tell me. And he literally just texted me at like 2 in the morning. Of course, literally, I was. I was like, toothbrush in my mouth. I see a text and he was like, hey, I didn't want to say this today, like, in front of your friend, but, like, I've been thinking about this for a while. I'd really love to sign you to my publishing company, which for me was literally the end goal always. Because again, I'd been Working for this guy for four years, but I'd never made music with him. And slowly, as he trusted me more, I got to do more music. Things like cutting up samples, if you know what that is, if you make music, listening to this, or sampling his entire keyboard and giving him the sounds from it. And it's like music stuff for sure. But we had definitely never made music. So this kind of was so amazing. Breaking the barrier, not his intern anymore. And what it was.

You also get paid now, right? You get signed.

You got paid. Yeah. So that's four years of working fully for free. Giving all of my time to this. And again, not complaining because I was so lucky to be even able to work for free.

Nice. Is it this point where you think to yourself, am I going back to college?

Yeah, definitely. I was just like, I'm not sure if I need this. And also at this point, I had dropped out of Clive Davis because I'd already been getting this music education from Benny and all the people that he works with. So I was kind of just like, I think I'd rather be enriched by other. I'd rather work on other parts of myself in college because I'm so lucky to be able to. To go to college. I'd rather just take classes that I learn other stuff and can kind of tangentially help other areas of my life and even help my music. So I was going to Gallatin at nyu, thought I wanted to drop out. Benny actually had said, you shouldn't drop out. Benny's manager said, you shouldn't drop out. And I went the first semester working with, like now using the publishing company to meet other artists and work with people and flying back to LA a lot to. To work with people in la. And it honestly just got to the point where I was just like, I don't really know, like, in college, all I was doing was. Was making music and I'd get out of class and just go make music and then stay up late. And it was. It got to the point where it was just really getting in the way.

Got it.

I had to make a decision. Obviously, I had to be able to support myself, which I was lucky enough to be able to support myself off this deal. And yes, I was just like, I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life. Why not start now?

And your parents, I assume, were supportive?

My parents were really supportive. Yeah, they were really supportive. They were really great about it, obviously. They were just like, you have to support yourself. We're not going to pay for you to drop out of college, which is 100% fair, and that's what it should be. Absolutely. And again, I was lucky enough to be working hard enough and making enough money that I could do that.

So how long has it been now?

Now it's been. It's been a year since I signed to him. And what's going on in your life, man? Like, I'm getting to make music with not only people that I sat in and watched their sessions with Benny, but with people that I've listened to since I was like, before my voice dropped.

How.

Like, that's the craziest thing in the world to me. How am I so. Like, I literally, even yesterday, I was in a room with people who. I won't say who they are, but all these people have had so many hits and big songs. I was just sitting there like, I don't know how I got here, and it's insane. It's so cool. And you see these people, you write songs that I'm writing songs that I know I would have listened to when I was a kid. And that's like, that's the coolest thing in the world to me. That's the coolest thing in the world. I can't believe I get to wake up every day and do this. And I wake and I work my ass off and I'm in the studio from. I literally. I joke. I'm never even in my actual room. I'm in my room to wake up, and then I wake up at, like, 10, 9, 30. I go straight to the studio, and I'm there until three, and I fall asleep with my head in my hands every single night at the computer. It's what I love, and it's what I want to do. And honestly, if there's anything I've learned by getting to see all these incredible producers and songwriters and people, the only thing that connects them all, that they all share, is that they all just work so, so, so hard.

I believe it.

And it's like, I would watch these interviews of these people looking for the secrets and looking for how to be successful, and it's the answer that no one wants to hear, because it's the hardest answer. But the one answer for how you do this and how you become big in this industry and how you get to make songs that you walk outside and hear on the radio or in your Uber ride is you just. You outwork everyone.

So that's actually usually the first question I ask guests. How much of your success so far do you attribute to Hard work versus talent.

I think it's really, it's really little to do with talent, honestly. I mean, it's a lot to do with either you have it or you don't, right? But even if you don't have it, you can make an unbelievable career off of just working so hard. There are so many people that it's just like again, when I'm not making music, I'm thinking about music. And I didn't always have this work ethic. I definitely learned it. So that's important to say. But now it's like you start getting better when you start putting in time, not doing anything but working when you start putting in the time. And then obviously all these things happen as a result of that. It's like the blanket answer for how do you be successful is work your ass off. And obviously by working your ass off, then you start listening to more music. And then listening to more music is the most important thing you can do to be good. And it's like all these little things.

So let me ask you this, what advice for a 11 year old or a 15 year old out there, what advice would you give them?

I think this isn't for everyone. And it's like if you don't think that you could do that and work and dedicate your entire, entire life to this, I don't know if it's for you. And I heard that and I heard that when I was young. And that's a scary answer, but it really is it. It's like watching all these people, all these people, their entire life is music. So I guess my advice would just to be work really, really hard. You're not going to make good things for a long time and you have to be okay with not making good music. That's a big mistake that I made is I was scared to make bad music. So I didn't take risks and I didn't experiment as much as I should have, which I do now. But I have to be willing to make bad music. You don't need to show anyone your bad music. You can make music for a long time until it's good. I think listen to a lot of music and recognize what makes the music that you love lovable. And be cool to be around, be a nice person. There are so many talented people who don't really end up doing anything because they're assholes. And there's enough nice people in music that you can just work with nice people. So no one wants to work with assholes.

That's great. It's a great answer. So my last question that no one can answer actually, is there one thing you wish I would have asked you?

Maybe I wish you would have said, can there be a balance between work and your personal life? Can you actually do.

Can there be balance between work? That's an incredible question.

Thank you so much for asking me. Yes, of course. And there should be. And you also can't be great at music if you don't have life experiences to write about and you have to let yourself live for sure. So I've honestly, even this year, noticed that my music started to get worse when I started to overwork myself and when I started to not take Saturdays and Sundays. And you just end up writing about the same shit and you don't have anything to write about. And this is fun. It should be the most fun. And honestly, if you love music, you're working your ass off, but you're having the best time in the world doing it. But if it gets to a point where you're not having fun, it's like, what are you even doing? Of course there are times every day where I'm like, oh, my God, I'm working my. But again, overall, having the best time. And it's important that you go out and sometimes you drink a little too much or sometimes you do some things that are a little bit embarrassing. It's like you have to live your life. So I don't want anyone to hear that you have to just absolutely kill yourself to be successful, because you don't. You do need to work insanely hard. But again, if you love this, it's not going to feel like that.

Fantastic.

That's my answer.

That's a good answer. Blake, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming in.

Thank you for having me. And also for everyone. Also, this isn't a podcast to lift you up and make everyone think how great Danny Ruderman is. But again, I would not be here. I wouldn't have had my internship if it wasn't for you. I wouldn't have had honestly that pushy attitude if it wasn't for you. So I'm infinitely grateful for you and for your advice. Super important. And yeah, thank you.

Thank you. I really appreciate it. If you want to learn more about the specific steps our guests took to follow their dreams, go to our website, Danny ruderman.com and become an XU VIP. You will not only get access to all our episodes, but you will also be able to download free guides that have step by step action plans and resources that will help you become Extraordinary. If you want to tell us your story or ask for help, go to dannyruterman.com YourStory or reach out via Instagram at dmruterman. You can also subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, please leave us a review. Extraordinary youy is produced by Anna Darling, music by Gee Om, sound editing by Rob Pera. Extraordinary youy is a production of Acast.