Jack Elias

I'm Danny Ruderman and this is Extraordinary youy, a podcast that shares inspiring stories of young people who've done incredible things and how they did it.

Our guest today is Jack Elias, an 18 year old freshman in USC's music industry program who started a music label called August Records with two friends when he was in high school. They signed their first three artists within the first six months and released their first EP by artist Jackson Stone in 2019. Jack, welcome to Xu.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

My first question is this. What is the best kind of pickle?

None.

Oh, wow. Not a pickle fan, huh? All right, well, I'm going to take that off the gift list then for you. Let me ask you a better question. Can you tell me a bit about your family, about growing up?

Okay, so I grew up in music. My dad is a composer and he has done jingles and film scores and commercials and stuff like that. He also produced for Duran Duran back in the day.

Really?

Funny enough, I didn't know that. Yeah, so that's his story. And so I kind of always grew up around music and listening to his, you know, everything he was doing. So that definitely inspired me. My sister was in music, she graduated from Clive Davis, and so it was kind of all around me. And I started by picking up the guitar and drums and then I started producing later on. And then I met a couple people and started, you know, working with them and releasing music. So.

Well, let's back up a little bit. So your let's. Your sister went to Clive Davis, which is the NYU Music Production School, Music.

Business for Artists School.

I mean, I sent like six people there. I should be able to describe it correctly. But thank you for. Thank you for fixing that for me. And so let's go back to your early musical roots. So what was the first instrument you played?

First instrument was drums or. Sorry, I think it was guitar, actually.

How old were you?

10.

10. Wow. So you didn't actually start when you were 4 or 5 like most students.

But then thanks to Rock Band, I started playing the drums. That was fun.

I've heard this before. Okay, so did you actually have a real drum set in like your garage where you were driving your neighbors crazy?

I started with an electronic set, which was the smart way to go. I recommend that to anyone trying to play the drums because then you can just put it in your headphones or control the volume.

Brilliant.

Yeah, it's brilliant.

So you're playing guitar and you're playing drums. And is that how. What form is that? Taking. Were you in a band? Were you playing at school?

I was in, I was in a rock band. First a jazz band and then a rock band in middle school. Not super formal, not super skillful.

What was it called?

I don't think we had a name. It was just the school, the school bands.

Nice.

So that's kind of how I started. And then once 9th grade came around, I got into the, the jazz band in high school and stuck with that for all four years.

Nice. Now you also sing if I'm not mistaken.

I do.

So I say that like I don't know you. I've known you for like two years. I know real well that you sing. But hey, for the audience out there. So I understand that you sing.

Thank you. Well, so I, I started singing in commercials because my dad was, he was, you know, composing them and so I actually had a really good voice, especially when I was young. I had a very high pitched voice.

Nice.

Some people thought it was like Justin Bieber esque. But since that, that's changed a bit and I've had to make some adjustments. But anyhow, so I did that and then up to this day on my own work I've been singing.

So if we were to look back on the Internet, could we find a commercial that had your high falsetto voice in it?

Definitely.

Nice.

Find a couple.

I won't put you on the spot.

And tell you you could probably never find out because they were layered with a lot of other people too.

Got it, got it. So but you had some experience in terms of recording, in terms of singing. Did that build your confidence having that experience?

Absolutely. I think with anything, whether it's an instrument or vocal, I think you need a lot of practice and you know, eventually you find your own voice and it's, it's something I'm still working on but I do have some experience, so.

Got it. And what caused you to want to go towards music business and when did that happen?

So I think since about 9th grade I've been pretty entrepreneurial. I'm always thinking of new ideas in the business world. But then I have that musical component of me that I really can't get away from. So I think those two things were kind of colliding. And at a certain point, you know, I had this great group of people that I was working with from the Bay on music. So I felt that I had a lot of talent around me and I had, you know, Oliman and other musical people in my life that I felt like, you know, were friends. But I Felt like we could make something out of it and kind of put all the pieces together around junior year. Right. And that's when it really started.

So Alaman is your best friend from high school. I know that. So I'm just gonna make that clear for people. And he is also a talented singer and dancer, definitely.

Right.

And you say that you had some musical connections in the Bay Area. How did that come about?

So someone actually interned for my dad and it was a terrible, terrible fit. Now that I think back, he's. He's a, you know, pop and alternative rock and hip hop guy who interned for my dad, who was doing, you know, library work and license work and, you know, film work, stuff like that. So it was just a terrible fit. But he ended up, you know, I ended up working with him through my dad. And ever since, you know, he introduced me to his whole friend group and, you know, group of producers. And ever since I've been working with them, I still work with them, talk to them.

So was this a thing when you were in ninth grade, you said you have an entrepreneurial sort of bent?

Yeah.

Were there early business ideas that you had and were they music based?

Not really. This was the first time I really put it together for a while. I actually wanted to be like, you know, in like banking or like stock trading or something like that. I think I used to want to chase after money. I really liked that thought of having money. So I think that's where that came from. And then the music was always in me. So they just came together basically in a more fun way.

Got it. So you had this entrepreneurial spirit and you, you had some contacts now, both from your friends at high school and in jazz band and the people you were playing with and then through this contact who was. How old was this contact that was working for your dad at the time?

I think he was like 18 or 19.

Okay.

He's doing pretty well, though. He has a band called Ruby Red. Shout out, Shout out. Ruby Red. His name's Daniel Laner. Super talented. And then that's how I met the rest of the guys.

Okay, so this happened when you were in what year in high school?

I met him at the end of ninth grade.

Okay, got it. And so you cultivated these relationships, kept in touch with these guys. At what point did you pick up Ableton or did you pick up some music editing software?

So he taught me what I know on Ableton.

Okay.

In about. In. In 10th grade. It wasn't really until 10th grade when I started doing music. So yeah.

All Right. And what was the first thing that you produced or put together? Was it for your own? Was it for yourself, or was it for somebody else?

The first thing was for myself. It actually was for our first one. It was not bad. Funny enough. Of course, you have tons of things that you make on early on that you look back on and are just awful.

I've heard that that's a theme, actually, through interviews. You know, everyone that I've interviewed who's something like this, they said my early stuff was terrible, but I had to do it in order to get better. There's just no way around it.

And I'm sure. I'm sure the stuff that I'm working on now I'll think the same of.

Right. You keep evolving. So you were producing a song for yourself, correct, where you were singing on it?

Yeah.

And playing instruments as well?

I was not playing instruments, but I was programming instruments.

Got it.

So, you know, I think there's a big stigma, too, around, you know, not using live instruments and, you know, using, you know, being all on the computer. I think people think it's kind of like cheating. But I will tell you, as someone who did both, I think that there's a lot of parallels and, you know, both require a lot of skill and time more than anything. Right.

And you. Do you think that you can completely use electronic? Do you think an electronic can completely replace instruments? It's like on a pop song, for example.

I think in theory it could, but I think it won't. I think there's probably gonna be a big resurgence, if it hasn't happened already, for live instrumentation.

It always sort of comes in and out.

Yeah.

There was a time when I was in high school, I won't date myself. But everything was electronic for a while, and then even those bands began using instruments, they gotta keep changing it up. They gotta keep reinventing themselves.

I think a lot of music works that way. It's a lot of just waves. Yeah.

Same with fashion.

Yeah.

All right, so you now are starting to produce your own music. And at what point do you say, maybe I should try to get one of these other artists? Did you write a song for them? Did you bring them in a studio? Did you want to write music? How did that work?

So I think that. I think that when I write and compose or produce a song, I kind of do it in my own way. And then afterwards, I like to pick someone else that I think embodies it or could represent it really well to jump on it. And that's kind of like the approach that I'm starting to take now as an artist myself. But yeah, so that's. That's kind of what's up with my.

Got it. So who was the first artist that you decided to work with that wasn't you?

So I haven't done that yet.

But you have, right?

Jackson Stone, technically was. But those were all songs that I was also an artist on.

I see.

So I haven't had a song yet where I'm completely out of the picture.

I understand.

Recording artists.

Got it.

Got it.

So, okay, so let's go. Let's talk about Jackson Stone. So Jackson Stone was one of your first signed artists to August Records. Actually, let me back up before that. So August Records, why that name?

So August is my middle name, but I think August for me and I think my partners definitely can resonate with it. August has always been a month where you have to really adjust to a new. A new life and, you know, a new year because, you know, for kids in school. Right. That is the new year. Right. And so I think it's goodbye to the fun summer memories and the memories from that past year. And it's, you know, it's kind of a refresher and it's something you have to make an adjustment to.

Got it. So when did the idea for August Records begin?

It started in junior year. So, like, midway through junior year.

And you decided by yourself, with a couple of friends, to start a record.

Label with two of my friends, Ben and Olima.

Got it. And how did it happen? Like, what was the process?

The process? It started out as something that I thought would be a bit more informal, but when I started talking to my partners more and my parents and everyone, we decided that we'd start an llc. And then we, you know, we started working with attorneys and stuff.

So you wanted to do this right out of the gate. This wasn't just something out of your garage. You wanted to set an entity that could become something. And an LLC is a limited liability corporation. Right. Which is what you usually do when there's partners involved. Right, Right. Okay.

Yeah. You know, obviously it's something that can be a bit expensive and a kind of risky in some ways, financially.

Why is that?

Well, first of all, it can be expensive to set up one of these, especially if you work with attorneys. And that's something that we learned, you know, the hard way. Absolutely. The many lessons I've learned from working with attorneys thus far. I do. I do like my attorneys for sure. But there's definitely a lot of lessons.

That I, how did you even. I mean, maybe it was through your dad, but how did you even find attorneys who would work with you at 16, 17 years old?

It's, it's definitely not easy, especially if you want to work with anyone semi reputable, because it's like, how do you, how do you, you know, fight for that attention when they have clients who are so big and willing to dish out huge amounts of money? We were pretty clear that we couldn't, you know, dish out a lot of money.

Right.

Which is tough. And it's, you know, in some ways a bit unfair to them, especially, especially because they're reputable.

Right.

But it's really all we can offer at this point. And the goal is that as we grow and they'll see that we have more to offer and it's kind of a cool part.

They're investing in you. If you actually become something, then it's good for everybody. You pay them more money, there's more work for them to do. But how did you even find out who to contact to begin with?

It was through a family friend. Okay, that's it though.

All right, so was, it was somebody that knew somebody and then what is it that you sent an email, you made a phone call, you had a meeting?

We called, we went in for a, for a meeting and talked with them for a bit and we followed up with them and decided we wanted to work with them. And that's kind of how it happened.

Was it, in all honesty, it's not the easiest thing for most teenagers to talk to adults, let alone lawyers. Was it nerve wracking?

Yes, absolutely. You had to learn a lot really quickly and definitely, you know, compose yourself and learn how to be professional by email and on the phone and conserve your time is another thing. Because if you exceed a certain amount of time, you pay more.

How about that? So you had to be, you have to be prepared going in about what exact questions that you have and get the answers, getting get out. Because the clock is ticking.

No doubt. And that's something I didn't really think about at first. So.

Yeah, I understand. I think we've all been there. Who's ever dealt with lawyers? So you decide to make this entity, right. And do you guys make a business plan? How do you even start thinking about making a record label? I mean, it's one thing to like, oh, I'm making music with my friends, it's another thing to make a label. What does that even mean?

Actually, a label in today's age is definitely an arbitrary concept. Probably it varies a lot for sure. But you know, in terms of what they've provided historically, they will give a front end amount of money to an artist in exchange for royalties on the back end.

Got it. So in other words, they will provide the money for, to produce the album, to do marketing up front. The artist just shows up and does it, but then the label actually takes the majority share.

They take the share until the monies for the advance are recouped.

Okay.

And then they get a back end share.

I understand.

After that. After that.

Got it. So then the more artists that a label can sign. Right. It's a numbers game. Right. So if you sign 10 artists and one hits, hopefully one will pay for the rest of the money that you're funding on the other artists.

Yeah, I mean a lot of, a lot of, like the major labels will sign, you know, 300 artists and they'll have three or four that are like major.

Right.

And those four will account for everyone else and more.

I totally, I totally get it. So you establish this legal entity. You have your friends, you have two friends that are involved in this. How did you guys determine who was doing what? Was it your natural talents? Basically?

I think it was based on what we could provide immediately. It was definitely based on natural talents and skill sets, you know, so Ben, Ben's more on the photography, social media, marketing side. Oliman and I are both more on the business side and, you know, creative side and music side. Ben definitely plays on that side too. But Oliman and I, because we're artists, also play on that side a lot. So yeah, that's kind of how it's panned out so far.

And did you guys set up a contract that basically laid out what your roles were and what percentages you got of the label?

So funny enough, we have not to this date, we have not made a plan or contract like that. That, that really, that shows.

I say really to everybody because I told you to do this about two years ago, you still haven't done it.

Still haven't done that. But, but we do have a contract as far as the partnership. Okay.

Okay. So that's the important one. So you have the contract that basically says you get this percentage, he gets this percentage. And why do you think that that's important? Important?

Oh, because if something goes wrong, it's bad things could happen.

Yes. And what in your estimation is the likelihood of things going wrong in any business partnership?

It's always possible. So you got to be prepared for.

It, you know, even if you're best Friends, Absolutely. Actually, I would say, especially if you're best friends. There have been many, many, many, many stories of businesses sort of ruining relationships as opposed to bringing them together. Now it's been couple of years now, and you guys are still together, which is. Which is an amazing sign because a lot of businesses will fold after the first three, six months.

Yeah.

If one person isn't holding up his end or whatever happens. So kudos to you guys.

Thank you.

Yeah. So, all right, so you guys have now this company, and you have a plan of signing artists and you know the structure and you're getting some legal help and you have a contract. What's the first move as a record label? I imagine finding talent.

The first move, we actually knew what it would be once we were setting it up. It was to sign Jackson Stone, Oliman, and I knew that we would be artists too.

Okay.

But we weren't as worried about signing ourselves yet because, you know, it's easy to sign yourself. But so that took a bit. You know, you had to work a lot of legal things out between us and Jackson Stone. Once we got that all settled, though, we signed him in September, and within days he released his. His first single.

Okay, so where did you meet? Was Jackson part of this Bay Area?

He was. So Jackson lived with Daniel Lehner, and that's how I met him. And we started collaborating. One day he jumped on Lonesome, which is my first single that I released. And ever since, I really like the work that he made. And so. Yeah.

So you saw something in him that you thought would be marketable?

Basically, yeah.

Right. And what kind of music?

It's hip hop with a little spark of pop, and you could even say alternative rock in there. I would say if you're a Travis Scott fan, you'll like his music. It's somewhat comparable to Travis Scott.

And what was it about him or about his music that you thought this would be new or different or sexy, if you will, in the marketplace?

I think all of the Bay Area guys that I met kind of have a sound. And I think usually when people have a sound and, you know, in the music industry, whether. Whether that sound is good or bad, frankly, I think if you have a unique sound, I think people will catch on to that. And, you know, you could make a comparison, like I said, to Travis Scott, it definitely falls in that. In that pocket, but I think he adds something else as well and that I like, so.

Got it. So did you help produce this first single.

You'Re saying, of Jackson Stones?

Yes.

So I. If Anything. Am an executive producer.

Okay.

On pretty much the. The album, but I. I didn't do any direct production.

So you again, you fronted some money for him to do it on his own, basically. Then he gives you the tracks.

Yeah. So he produces, he writes, and he's the recording artist. So it's a pretty. Pretty horrible. That's great.

Yeah. So what is the label's job then? Get it out into the world.

Yeah.

Okay. And how have you guys done that and what lessons have you learned?

A lot of lessons. The primary way we've done that is social media. I mean, that's the number one way and that's the number one way of the future. But I think the lessons that we learned. So we made a whole budget with the money that we fronted to him. A lot of that was for promotional purposes. There were a couple sources that we use that were actually scams, even though we looked into them in pretty great detail, really.

I mean, like social media wise or other. Like you pay for something.

There was one on a website called Fiverr, which is like a online forum where you can go and have people promote your things. It's like independent contracting.

Right.

We got scammed on that. Luckily we got our money back, though. We got scammed on another site as well. I don't remember the name even at this point. And then besides that, we put it into, like, Instagram promo and things like that.

So when you say scam, though, these were people who were saying, oh, we'll promote your music. We have some sort of platform.

Exactly. And it would be like some phony account that, like, you know, their people followed and did fake things on.

Right.

So it would be things like that. But the. The other monies were pretty much allocated into photo shoots, Instagram and even. Even other types of, you know, promo on websites and stuff like that.

What has been the biggest success in terms of marketing and what has been the biggest challenge for you in terms of marketing?

I'm gonna. I'm start with the challenge. I think the biggest challenge for us has been consistency. It's. It's just essential in today's market that you're consistent, that you're, you know, making posts all the time. That's something that, you know, as an individual entity, myself, I have not done a good job of. Personally and frankly, I think as a label, we have not done the best job of it too. I think a lot of our work comes in spurts.

Well, I mean, to be fair, like, you, when you launch this, you're trying to handle an 11th grade AP curriculum at one of the hardest schools in California, while you're starting the label, which we'll get into in a bit, but I kind of get it.

Yeah, right.

But nonetheless, you still put stuff out there.

It's true. It's true. It could have. I still think we could have been a bit more consistent. And to this day, I think it's something that we still strive to work on in terms of a success. I think Oliman has done a great job of kind of marketing himself with our assistants, too. He's been really prolific in the dance and singing area, so he kind of combines his talents, and I think he's done that on his page, and it's something that we've tried to market as well with Jackson Stone. Some of the videos, the promotional videos that Ben's put together have been pretty good, particularly for 12am Thoughts at 12am, which is the first single in Wildlife. I think those were pretty good.

So you're doing Social, you're taking pictures, you made a couple of music videos, I believe. Also, if I recall, you also had a live event where you had important perform, right?

That's correct. So I performed and he performed. It was in Santa Monica, and it was for my high school. It was a. It was like a party. So.

So basically you threw a big party, invited people from your high school and also other high schools, or did we. Was that.

Yeah, there were people from other high schools, too.

Right. And so that was using the resources you had available to you to at least get a spark and put it out into the world, Right?

Exactly.

It's smart. It's smart experience, you know, so getting back to the thing we were just talking about, how did you balance school and starting this label? Because I know. Because I worked with you, you know, you were a absolute straight A student in some of the hardest classes at this very difficult high school. Right. And that was sort of your identity, especially freshman and sophomore year. So much so that you put in an incredible amount of stress on yourself. Right. And then all of a sudden, on top of that, you're gonna layer on not just making music, but to be responsible for an artist and responsible to your partners. How did you do that?

It was a lot of really late nights, for sure.

That's fair.

I don't really sleep very much.

All right.

And that's something that's continued, actually, but I think it's something that I'm fine with. You know, a lot of people are super keen on getting their maximum hours of sleep, which I totally respect. And is probably objectively pretty important.

Right.

But I think that my body is honestly fine on a little bit lower sleep than average.

How many hours of sleep do you get on average?

Probably about five or six.

Okay.

Which is not terrible, right?

It's not terrible.

Although it's not great for my age.

It's probably not that great for your age. But you know what? When you want something, you got to sacrifice something. Right?

Exactly. And you know, I'm fine with it. I really am. So. Yeah.

You look healthy.

Thank you.

Yeah. So, all right. So you're staying up then. Late, late nights. Do you come home and do your homework first and get it out of the way or do you procrastinate and.

Put everything off until last night with schoolwork? I'm definitely procrastinator.

Me too. That's not the way to do it, by the way.

It's not. But it's the weirdest thing. I actually get nervous if I don't procrastinate.

Really?

It's the weirdest thing. Yeah. I get super nervous about my work if I don't.

And are you somebody like I was. Which is unfortunate. But, you know, I would say I'm gonna study this weekend. On Saturday I'm get all my work done. And on Saturday I would say I'm so tired, I can't. And then on Sunday night at 11 o', clock, I would be on fire because it was due the next day and I would just crank because I had no choice.

Yep. There's no doubt about it. Procrastination, when you need to get something done. That last day you work like nobody's been busy.

Yeah. The only problem is the stress that comes along with it.

Right. It's. It's a bit of adrenaline.

Did you have to make any other priority choices taken, Take fewer difficult classes or give up on your social life in order to make this happen?

At times, the social life, I had to sacrifice a bit. I didn't play sports though. Really, Besides tennis in high school. So I think dealing with that time commitment is a huge weight off your shoulders. And that's kind of what I did starting in ninth grade. Besides tennis, Like I said. Yeah. So that was one sacrifice. Like I said, the social thing was another sacrifice. That's pretty much it, though.

Did you know your procrastinator typically doesn't do this? But I'm interested. Did you set goals with timelines for yourself or did you block out time in a week? You're saying this is the week we've got to get this Contract done. So I'm going to spend three hours on Saturday and two hours on Friday. How did you do that?

I usually just use, like, the notes app on my phone, and I'll just say, okay, Saturday, you need to do this.

So you made a list of things you had to accomplish?

I'm a big list guy.

As am I. Yeah. All right. So you were. Are you the organizational one of the team, or is it that a shared responsibility?

It's a shared responsibility. I do try to provide organization about what, you know, each. Each person in the business should be doing, though.

Right. And is it difficult to hold your friends accountable?

It is, yeah. I bet it is, because they're close friends, like. Like I said. And we have a pretty good and friendly relationship, and we joke around a lot. So I think at times you need to be serious.

Right.

You need to cut out the jokes and. And, you know, the fun, which could easily happen with your friends.

Right.

And so, yeah, that's something.

Did you and I, since I know your personality, I mean, you're a nice guy. You're not one that likes confrontation.

No.

Has there been times, though, when you had to sit down and say, look, guys, we need to get our act together, and this is what I need from you.

Absolutely. But frankly, I love it, though, because it pushes me to take on a little more of that confrontation, which I need, you know? Right.

So, yeah, you are pretty good at recognizing what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are, and then you purposefully do things that push you outside your comfort zone.

Yeah.

Why?

It's the only way to grow. It's the most important thing. I'm a big believer that you can change things about yourself over time. I don't think things are fixed like that. And so I try to push myself and make myself better.

Smart. It's very smart. That's why you're gonna be successful. So you get in with the help of an amazing college counselor to the USC music industry program. And for those who aren't aware, that really is talking about music business, entrepreneurship, and it's in the school of music. So you're being surrounded with a lot of musicians there as well, correct?

Yeah, absolutely.

How? You're a freshman, so this is. You've really just. This is your first year of it. How has it been so far?

First of all, I want to thank Danny Ruderman publicly.

Thank you. Shout out to me.

Incredible guy. Can you repeat the question? I'm sorry.

Yes. The question is how has the. How has your freshman year been in this program?

Specifically yeah, I've loved it. I've loved the people. I've really loved what I'm learning. Some of it has been stuff that I've kind of come into contact before, which has been cool. Some of it has been stuff that I've never heard of before and that I can apply, which has been really cool.

That's great.

That's been. That's been great. I love the professors. Everything's been really cool in the program.

So having said that, you came into the program a little bit differently than most people, because if you are coming from Kansas, you probably don't have the resources or the family that you grew up with, be surrounded by music or contacts or things like that. Have you met any students like that at USC who. Who don't have the sort of background you do?

Absolutely. There's actually. There's a lot of kids in the program. Not a lot, but there are definitely a couple kids who don't really do much in music in terms of, like, you know, production or, you know, instrumentation. A lot of them, you know, or some of them are oriented in business and wanted a more musical focus, and that's why they're in the program.

Got it. So do you think, in your personal opinion, do you think that it is necessary if there is a student out there right now listening to this in high school who wants to get into the music business, do you think it's necessary for them to go to a music business program in college if they.

Want to do music. Music business. Right. That's the assumption. If they want to do music business. I actually think it's not necessari necessarily necessary to. To join a music business program. The one thing I would recommend if you don't join one, though, is to join some sort of club that focuses in music. There's so many, at least at my school. And then, you know, by doing that, you can meet kids in the music industry and develop connections and relationships with them.

Smart.

Yeah. So that's kind of what I'd recommend.

And so why. Why don't you think it's necessary, though?

Because I think a lot of the skills in the music business are skills that you can pick up on the go. I mean, look at us with the. With the label, frankly, even though we're not perfect.

Right.

We've definitely learned a lot in the moment. Doing, you know, that's the best way to learn. Right.

I agree.

Even if you look, you lose, you know, whatever. It's really. There's no replacement.

Yeah. And I wanted to make that Point. I was hoping you'd answer it that way. Because there's so few Mizu business programs that a lot of students believe. If I don't get into one, there's no way that I can pursue this. And that is not from my students. Over the years, that has not been the case. Like you said, if you joined a club and you made a connection and you managed to get an internship, even if you didn't have any background, you got your foot in the door and then worked your way into the organization, you're going to learn as you go. You don't have to major in business or music business to be successful. Not that that doesn't hurt, by the way. Obviously you're learning amazing things, but it's not the only way to go. Right?

Right.

How much of your success thus far, and I know you're still getting started. How much of it is natural talent versus how much is hard work?

Well, I think you definitely have to have. Especially, you know, in the music business, I think you have to have some natural talent. Sure, it's a. It's an industry where hard work can. Can do a lot, but it can't necessarily replace completely talent. So you gotta have. You gotta have that in your organization. But at the end of the day, I don't think I've ever met a successful person in the music industry who hasn't been a very hard worker. So that's kind of the moral of the story.

I think that's. I think that's a good answer.

Both are necessary.

What advice would you give, say an 11 or 15 year old out there who wants to follow in your footsteps, who wants to start a label or wants to start making music with somebody else?

I think do it. Honestly, there's. There's no better way to do it than. Than how I've done it so far. Even if you go through, you know, some failures, you need failures, you know, and in today's, in today's age, you know, as cliche as it is, there's. There's really no limitations. You can kind of do anything you want. It can be a bit bootleg or it can be. It doesn't have to be super professional or like an even, you know, an llc, but you can just do it.

Well, what's amazing is, is that, you know, 20 years ago, there wasn't a mobile studio. You didn't have Ableton or Pro Tools or anything. You couldn't do it off of your computer. There was no entry point into music. Right now, anybody can do it. Which is good and bad, right? So that's actually one of the final questions I want to ask you, which is where do you see the music business going? Because anyone can make music. It's also. That's great, but it's also hard to. Harder to get noticed.

It's. It seems like an attention game at the moment. I think with the. With the new rise of social media, we're kind of in a period where everything's a bit new. Definitely a transitional period. I think over time, you think the emphasis will be back to music and songwriting because, you know, you can't replace those no matter how great the production is. But one thing that I've personally noticed lately, especially with some mainstream pop, is, you know, enhance production.

Okay.

Whether that's like, use of like, you know, more panning or phasers or things like that, I think that mainstream pop will see more of an emphasis on production than it ever has.

So what you're saying is, is that good songwriting and good artists, I mean, if you get Adele and comes across your path, right, you sign her because she's going to be a superstar with that voice, right? But at the same time, you. Everybody's trying to differentiate themselves and the production. Things that you can do now that you couldn't do before is another way of basically standing out.

I think this is going to be the age of the producer where, you know, the producer is entitled to more of the songwriting and publishing percentages. That's something that hasn't happened as much, but I think it really is fair. You know, being a producer, songwriter, artist, myself, when I look at everything in totality, I think it really is the fair truth.

Totally get it. Well, thank you. I really appreciate you being on today.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

It's always nice you to see if you want to learn more about Jack, as well as the specific steps he took to follow his dreams of becoming a music executive, go to our website.

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