Episode 157: The Silent Enemies of Energy Abundance

Everybody, welcome to Exponential Wisdom. I'm here with my coach, the incredible Dan Sullivan, the head of Strategic Coach. My name's Peter Diamandis, and I'm here as your perhaps AI and exponential tech guide. And Dan, good to see you. I'm in my normal haunt here in Santa Monica. You in Toronto?

I'm in Toronto today. I'll be in Phoenix tomorrow. Yeah.

All right. Are you there visiting Joe Polish? What are you doing in Phoenix?

Thursday and Friday. Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah.

So, you know, something I report about on regularly on the Moonshots podcast is sort of the political football that AI and data centers have become. What's pretty extraordinary is the idea that we're seeing like 30% plus of all the data centers being built, being canceled, being shut down. City councils are being fired if they approve a data center. Cities are putting short-term and long-term moratoriums on data centers. You know, the fear right now is water use and electricity spiking. You know, people don't feel the benefits from AI in their lives. And one of the challenges is that they fear AI. And what I believe this fear is coming from, you know, we're going to have another epidemic in the world. It's not a viral epidemic. It's an epidemic of fear. That's coming. And that epidemic of fear is coming from all of the hyperscalers. We're having Dario Amadei and Sam and many of the folks saying, even Elon, we're going to have significant unemployment coming on the back of this. People are going to lose their jobs. The data is showing, as we've discussed before, that young college graduates aged 22 to 25 are not getting jobs. The other place fear is coming from is that Hollywood, all of the movies being painted by Hollywood are dystopian, right? It's killer AIs and rogue robots. It's Ex Machina, it's Terminator, it's Black Mirror. And all of that stuff is painting this future of like just decimation of humanity. And if that's the image of the future you have, why would you ever want to live there?

Can I make a suggestion of why the movie—

Yeah, please.

Is that the movie industry is getting killed right now.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think the writers and the technicians are expressing their own personal situation right now. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of empty studios in Hollywood.

There are. I just launched an X Prize. I raised about $5 million for something called the Future Vision X Prize. You can go to futurevisionxprize.com to learn more. And we're doing a competition for people to write A script. A script and create a trailer for a movie that paints a hopeful, compelling, optimistic vision of the future. And we're going to make the winner's film. I want to create more versions of Star Trek out there. So to change the narrative. But all of this fear is causing cities to restrict data centers, and they're going to lose on a huge amount of economic opportunity as a result of that. Because what people don't realize is First of all, these restrictions are just going to drive the data centers to other locations which are permissive. And of course, the calculations— the data center can be built anywhere. Yeah, because the data, the results, the wisdom, the knowledge from these large data centers can come to your smartphone or, you know, into your computer from anywhere on the planet at the speed of light. Or it's going to drive it into orbit for all of the orbital data centers that Elon's been talking about. So what do you think is going on?

Here's the thing, we need electricity.

We do, of course.

I mean, we don't have enough electricity right now.

We don't.

No.

And we've got nuclear plants being brought back online.

Mhm.

We've got fusion coming online in the next 4 to 6 years, not 50 years away finally. And we also have seen China just demonstrate how it's possible to carpet the countryside in solar. I mean, China's running circles around the rest of the world in terms of solar.

Yeah, well, they've got other problems.

They do, they do. But in that area, they're winning.

Yeah.

So, you know, what's interesting is why communities are just— are not just saying, okay, listen, if you want a data center in our community, build the power plants required to power them, or pay double the rate per kilowatt hour, and then that lowers the cost of electricity for everybody else.

Yeah. Well, it's nuclear right now. I mean, the short range, it already exists. There's 100 closed down power centers. Actually, Mike Wandler, I think you— Mike is—

I know Mike. Yeah.

Yeah. Mike is just refitting nuclear centers right now. He's building the new modular ones, but he's doing it. Ontario, where I live, they're building 3 brand new nuclear plants right now. It's underway. Ontario is actually one of the best where we are because we get so much power from Niagara Falls.

Hydro. Yeah.

But then they have a lot of nuclear plants, but now they're building more of them. In the short range, I mean, nuclear fission is not here yet. You know, nuclear, the modular form and the old form are available right now. So I think that's it. And the US especially, has immense amount of natural gas, has enormous amounts of oil. We have enormous amounts of coal. So one thing that's been settled right now is the environmental movement is dead in the water. The whole notion that we're going to switch over to solar and wind power, it was a pipe dream to start with, and it's a provable pipe dream right now. Look what Germany did. They closed down all their nuclear plants and now they're paying 5, 6 times more for electricity than the US is.

And of course it's not one or the other.

It's everything. It's everything.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. There was a robot called Maximo that was laying out 100 megawatts of solar panels, like in a super fast time. I mean, robotics are gonna support that. Mm-hmm. And of course you need the storage as well, but storage is making incredible leaps.

Well, everything is happening.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

What's one thing that's happening? I said if it was one thing, it would be easier. 100 things are happening at the same time. The other thing is that in the world, the United States is in a completely different position than the rest of the world. I mean, the difference in capacity— for all the talk about people don't like to work, the United States is way above everybody else in productivity and everything. So I think You would answer the question for the United States and then the other category is everybody else. I think the US is a very, very different situation. But you're gonna need a lot of really good salespeople to explain the entire future, electrical future. You know, this is the next 50 years of what's gonna happen in this state. It's a bad salesmanship, you know.

Well, it's a nonlinear future in the following way. First of all, We know that there's a direct correlation between the amount of energy a country or community has and its GDP, right? The more electricity and power you have, the greater the health, the greater number of jobs, the greater all of that.

Mm-hmm.

The second thing is that we're about to enter a period of time where we're either at AGI now, and a lot of people believe we're there, or on the cusp of it. And very shortly thereafter, we have advanced, you know, artificial superintelligence. And then, you know, I wrote a paper with Alex Wiesner-Gross, who's my moonshot mate, our resident genius as I call him. And I wrote a paper called Solve Everything with him. And we're on the precipice of solving all math, all physics, all chemistry, all biology. And what comes out of that is fundamental breakthroughs in energy creation and storage. So, you know, the challenge we have as individuals is we tend to just extrapolate the world in a very linear fashion. You know, we think about, okay, well, we'll add this much solar per year or this much nuclear per year, but we don't think about the fact that, you know, on the verge of solving physics or material sciences, all of a sudden we have room temperature superconducting or we have new type of energy generation and storage. And that's where we're heading. It's going to be fundamental breakthroughs that take us to brand new capabilities. It's the jump from oil to nuclear, the jump from nuclear to fusion, the jump from fusion to whatever comes next.

Yeah. The question is the time period.

And it's accelerating.

Mm-hmm.

And so I have a hard time looking out more than 5 years at best.

These are all political issues now.

Mm-hmm.

The technology exists. You know, the people to improve the technology already exist. Is the coordination with what already exists. And I think the data center is that it changes the entire economy of a community when you put in a data center. There's a lot of employment at the beginning because these are monstrous constructions.

Yes.

But a lot of the employment is people who are coming from the outside. It's like the oil fields. You know, the oil fields aren't people who are born in that community. They're people who see an opportunity 1,000 miles away and they're willing to move to do it. One of the big problems is just the willingness to move, physically move. But the same thing happened when they used up all the wood. You live part of your life in Boston, and I used to see the pictures from the Revolutionary War 250 years ago, and there were no trees. Now Boston is heavily forested, and the reason is we got off the wood economy. The wood economy disappeared. We were using wood for construction. We were using it mainly for fuel. That's why the British became the front runner in the Industrial Revolution, because they had cut all the trees down and burned them.

The wood economy.

They had to go to coal because coal could do it. And the reason they got the coal is because all the mines had water problems and they had to pump the water out of the mines so that they could get the coal out. And what they used the coal for steam engines that were pumping this. So the steam economy, you know, the transportation economy all came because they used up all the wood and they were using up all the whales too. They were killing whales like mad for whale oil. So my sense is this is really different, but in many ways it's the same. I think we waste a lot of stuff and we waste it so much that we have to create something new, but people forget these past energy economies.

It's a perfect example going from wood and whale oil and coal to natural gas and nuclear and solar. And that doesn't stop there. You know, energy is the underlying nature of the universe and we're going to learn how to tap into more and more capable and higher, easier versions of it.

It's a big problem to be solved, Peter.

Yes, and a lovely one to be solved.

Yeah.

And by definition, you know, the world's biggest problems are the world's biggest business opportunities. Mm-hmm. When I think about where do I invest, this is not investment advice, but the innermost loop is energy.

Yep.

The innermost loop is energy.

Yep. So, well, there's 4. There's 4.

Okay.

One of them is money. We need more money.

Okay.

No, you need more money. I mean, the amount of money we have today is phenomenal compared to 25 years ago. There's also different kinds of money that we have now. Think about the investment markets, all the different ways that people can invest that they couldn't 25 years ago. So I think it's money. I think it's energy. It's labor. They're still going to be hiring people. There's whole industries that haven't been created yet that are going to have employees. And transportation. Transportation is a huge one. If you look at how AI is being used over the next 10 years, I bet 40, 50% of the AI is being used in money, energy, labor, and transportation. Otherwise you don't have an economy.

True. Those are drivers of the economy, but we're also gonna see it in, I guess when you say labor, you mean white collar jobs and just—

No, I mean humans.

Enabling humans, empowering humans.

Don't forget my advice on welding.

Yes. Yeah. And it's been true. It's been true.

Get him making 60,000 $100,000 a year before they figure out what they want to do.

Yeah.

The number one purpose of parenting is to turn a liability into an asset.

That's fantastic. Yes, it is interesting on that point to see the continued drop in the global birth rate.

Yeah.

Right. They used to be that your children were your insurance policy to take care of you.

Yeah.

And now they're a liability in terms of amount of time and energy they take to raise.

The average is 180,000.

To raise a child.

Yeah, till 18, till 18. But some people spend a lot more.

I'm going to send them a bill. Yeah.

You know, we have a program that's called the Unique Edge and it's for 18 to 24-year-olds.

Okay.

And it's one day and we do their Kolbe for them and explain the Kolbe. Well, the Kolbe simply says, for you to take action, this is who you are. So you have fact-finder, people who are fact-finders. Hard to find a job for fact-finders because AI does fact-finding better than any human generally, but not necessarily specifically. Okay. And the other one is follow-through, people who can put together systems. They are really profiting from AI because the logistics, you know, just think about the recent, while we're still in it, the war in Iran. The Israelis and the Americans are just so much better at coordinating things. Than the Iranians are. They're still living 40 years ago and how they coordinated things. But, you know, you have an air war and one side has lost all its planes and the other side has lost 3 or 4. But it's the integration and the coordination. Mike Wandler is putting together a whole energy plan for the state of Montana, and this is using all energies that are available for the state. And it's not necessarily about nuclear, it's about everything and how you have to think about energy. So I think you're Totally right. Energy is at the center of the economic cycle.

Yeah.

And then the money for the energy is the other part of it. How do you get the money for the energy?

What's your hot take right now on the war in Iran, where it's going to go, implications?

Well, the US has a faucet that it can turn on or turn off. If it doesn't come from Iran, your ships can go through the Straits, right? If you're from Iran, you can't go through the Straits. They don't allow any Iranian ships to leave Iran and go someplace else. If you're coming into Iran, they tell you to go someplace else. They turn you around. And so 180 tankers showed up in the Gulf of America. You know, they said, go to the Gulf, you know, and we'll fill you up. We've got all the oil you need. So the big thing is the U.S. controls all the waterways in the world. They're the only ones that have a Navy that can controlled the— so my sense is they'll just force them to the point where they're getting no energy in Iran and they have to come to grips with that. And the other thing is the Iranian— their number one enemy is not Israel. Their number one enemy isn't the United States. Their number one enemy is 93 million Iranians who don't like the ruling party as well as their Arab neighbors right now. Yeah, everybody is their enemy now. And they've hidden away a lot of money. I think they're having some very serious discussions with Swiss bankers right now. We want to know where the money is. We're going to get all the money that they put in Swiss banks, and that money is going to be our money. You know, we're in a new age. We're in a totally new age.

One of the concerns I have about the Strait of Hormuz and the blockades that are occurring there is, oh, there's multitude of resources that are flowing out of that region to Southeast Asia and to the US. People don't realize impact on helium production and the loss of helium for chip fabrication and for fueling our AI systems. And there's a whole slew of additional metals and resources required. So the implications are more than just oil and energy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think the world is run by 3 rules. The rule number 1 is everything's made up.

Okay.

So it's, people are just making up new stuff. Second rule is nobody's in charge.

That's a scary thought and true.

Rules are in charge. I mean, they have certain rules about how things are going to work. And the third rule is life's not fair.

Fair enough. I mean, I would say part of Everything's Made Up is that you create your own success, you envision your future, and you live into that future.

Yeah, you're very central in the Make It Up World. Yeah. You know, your position and how you've positioned yourself over half of your life is how do you make things up? And not only how do you make it, but find customers that will buy what you're making up. And this is entrepreneurism. The second one, nobody's in charge. There's a set of rules, you know, and how people coordinate logistics. And so there isn't anybody who is in charge. You know, it's a series of agreements and a series of coordination and collaboration. And AI really helps with that. So I think AI is going to at a certain point significantly impact. It already is. I'm sure it's already impacting enormously on how things get moved from one place to another, what the cost is and everything like that. So in a certain way, it's just moving faster. The biggest thing that's interesting today is how things move. But if you're a young person, you can go for the stars now in what you devote your life to because it's going to become bigger and better. It's going to become faster. And certain skills, I think a lot of human skills are going to be needed for this. You have the ability to ask questions and clarify someone else's thinking. Our entrepreneurial base, you know, they don't complain about this stuff. They're out creating value for their set amount of clients and they're constantly looking, how can I create more value? But most of it is thinking value. The problem is never the problem. The problem is people don't even know how to think about the problem.

Going back to our opening question here about the politics of AI and, and data centers, this is the number one political issue going forward.

You know, the US has 4,300 existing data centers right now. It's 40% of the world data centers are in the United States, with many more planned. You have a better feel for that than most people would.

Accelerating. There's near an infinite amount of capital that's flowing into these data centers and the hyperscalers. I mean, everybody from OpenAI to Anthropic to Google are hurting for more compute and they're hurting for more energy to power that compute. I'm just concerned that there's a level of myopic lack of education around communities here. And I'm curious if there's any analogies that you have And how do we help people see that they're shooting themselves in the foot by not like having cities and communities like compete to get data centers in their backyard?

Yeah. Why do you care?

Just for people to be sufficiently educated so that they're, well, that's an interesting question, Dan. Why do I care?

No, I'm talking about Peter Diamandis, why does he care?

Yeah, no, I got that. I got that.

You have paychecks for life, so why do you care?

Yeah. I hate seeing people make stupid decisions.

Uh, never interfere with people's negative experience.

Why?

Well, because they have to go through the experience to change their mindset.

To learn.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You learn fast, I learn fast, but not everybody learns fast. So I've studied the crossover from the agricultural economy to the manufacturing economy, and there was enormous pain. Over about a 30, 40-year period. People have to become self-teaching.

They do.

Yeah. But here's the thing, if it's a political issue, the political party that does a better job— they won't do a complete job, but they'll do a better job than another state. You can see the migration going on now in the states. You don't go to a union state, that's number one. You go to a free labor state. You know, all those European companies that for 20 or 30 years— Japan moved all of its manufacturing mostly to the United States. You know, so my sense is— I'll change the subject slightly, but it'll get to the problem. So this one entrepreneur comes to me and he says, I'm thinking about divorcing my wife. And I said, you've already decided to divorce your wife. You're just trying to do it without any suffering. And I said, it's not possible. It's not possible. You're looking for the solution where nobody suffers. I said, there's no such thing. And I think apply divorce to divorcing from what you thought the future was to what the future now is. And for some people, they're never going to make the switch. And we have all sorts of welfare to handle. People, and they're talking about, you know, universal basic income. But if you accept universal basic income, you're a third-class citizen.

Yeah.

In the United States, if you have a job and you make a living and you contribute because you have employment, you're a first-class citizen. And if you create employment for other people, you're above a first-class citizen.

Yeah. The way I talk about it is you're either becoming a consumer or a creator.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And by the way, AI is going to enable both of those to an extreme, right? AI will enable you to become the most extraordinary couch potato watching everything you could possibly want, filling yourself with the most extraordinary entertainment and the best versions of food that you can eat, a robot bringing it to you. And like, you know, you could be like just living the life, a passive life, or you can use AI to become an extraordinary creator. Where you're unlimited in what you can create.

Then you have a huge, huge— the biggest inequality problem you've ever had on the planet.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think you've just defined a binary situation, you know, that's in the future. The same thing happened with steam power. The same thing happened with electricity. But see, people are trying to say, I want to solve the problem in such a way that there's no suffering. I said that's impossible. Because suffering is chosen.

What does that mean, suffering is chosen?

Well, it means that I want the problem solved, but I don't want to do anything. Yeah, that sort of person suffers. If not financially, they suffer socially. They're not seen as a valuable human being. Yeah, they have no status as a human. And I think that's the real problem here. But I find it sort of exciting myself because I got a lot of money in reserve.

Yeah, it was interesting when I interviewed Elon and he said, don't save for the future. Did you hear that conversation?

No, no. Spend for today.

Yeah. He says, as we head towards this world of universal high income, we basically have a demonetizing future where the cost of anything and everything becomes effectively drops to near zero. Money's going to have far less value. And then I said, so just as you're becoming a multi-trillionaire, money's going to have far less value. He goes, yeah, I guess so.

Yeah. And you know, we're going to have those major stars. You can see it happening already. I mean, millionaire doesn't mean anything anymore. It's billionaire. I will tell you that we've had that in the past before income tax came in. John D. Rockefeller in 1910, I think income tax came in as it came in for very few people in 1913, 1914. I'm talking about the United States. And John D. Rockefeller's wealth was 1/20th of all the wealth in the United States.

Wow.

Elon is not 1/20th of the wealth in the United States.

No, he's not by comparison.

Yeah, he's striving, but money is the key. You got to have lots and lots of money. Therefore, you can't have high taxes. So all those municipalities, all those states who have high taxes, whatever money they don't have now, they're not going to have more money in the future.

And what's the tax rate in Toronto and Canada these days?

If you take everything into account, it's about 50%, 47, 48%. But I make most of my money is in US dollars that I spend in Canada.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Where are you taxed?

You're asking a question that I don't know the answer to.

Okay. Yeah, I guess California is pretty much New York.

California and New York. Well, it depends on the city. Los Angeles, San Francisco, much higher. Than other places. But it's always going to be this way. My sense is that it's always going to be this way. There isn't going to be a magic moment in the future. Stephen Poulter, do you know Stephen?

Yes. Yeah.

Stephen says, you know, it's really weird right now. Every year in IVF, the beginning of life, basically pregnancy in the first, you know, 8 or 9 months. Well, actually, most of the medical expenses in the United States are in the last 6 months of life or the first 6 months of life. You know, so it's the beginning of life and the end of life is going on. He says, you know, just in IVF, he says every year what we know is 10 times greater and every year what we don't know grows by 10 times. Yes. And I think this is the way it's going to be.

We're in the period of a great exploration.

Einstein had a great model. He said, think of a marble. He said everything on the inside of the marble is what we don't know. The surface of the marble is connected to everything we don't know. Now talk about a baseball. Much more we know inside the baseball, much less we know on the outside of the baseball. Beach ball. He says every time we discover something new that we know, we're introduced to 10 things we don't know. I can't see an end to that.

Yeah.

I mean, what's Elon say? I mean, he's the front runner. I mean, Elon is just— Yeah. Plus he specializes in altered reality too.

You know, it was interesting. I've done two podcasts with him or two interviews with him in the last six months. We did it in December and he just agreed to do it again at the end of the year. He said, you know, I'm in the middle of this and every day, every week I'm saying, wow, just wow. What's materializing in AI, a lot of the capabilities that we're seeing coming out of the scaling laws in AI are not expected. And we're just seeing these breakthroughs. Google just had a massive breakthrough in the amount of memory AI requires, and we'll have breakthroughs continuously expanding this. And it's just going to have shocking implications. Yeah. His term is a supersonic tsunami coming our way.

Yeah.

Which is unfathomable by true definition of those words to culture, society, individuals as it begins to hit us.

How are you positioning yourself? I mean, you're 65 this year, I think. 65.

Yeah, I turn 65 next month.

Yeah, the day after I turn 82.

Yes.

No, but how do you position yourself? I mean, you're healthy. Yeah, health is everything.

Health is everything. And I focus on health to a huge degree, keeping in, you know, Which is the basic sleep, diet, exercise, mindset, all those things and whatever the latest therapeutics are that I can avail myself to.

But let's say we go out 25 years. I'll do another 25 years on you. You're 90.

Yeah.

How do you want to be when you're 90?

I want to be better than I am right now.

Yeah. Well, I say this is possible today. It wasn't possible 25 years ago.

Correct?

Yes.

Yeah, I believe that. Right. So I was at the Breakthrough Awards with all the top CEOs from all the top hyperscalers. I spent time with Elon there, with Demis Hassabis, with Sundar. And I was asking Demis, you know, about his view on age reversal, longevity. And he's like, well, right now I'm focused on curing all disease. And I think within this next decade we will cure heart disease and cancer and all of these things. And then yes, I think age reversal is next. So depending on your timeframe, yeah, right. Your job is to stay as healthy as you can. Or the next— no, Ray thinks it's 5 years, Dennis thinks it's 10.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my sense is this is a new phenomenon in history that if you have a reason to live, you're probably going to be able to live.

100%. 100%.

That's a total change. We go to Buenos Aires because the stem cells that we're getting, the procedure is not available in the United States. He's going through the FDA. He thinks the FDA is doing a good job. But I was flying back overnight because it's always an overnight flight, and I don't sleep well on planes. And I was sitting there and I said, I now realize that if you're tested early enough, you can solve almost every medical problem. The testing is phenomenal today.

Yeah, diagnostics, you know, there's no excuse for you to be surprised by any medical condition you have.

No.

Do you feel like the stem cell treatments you're getting, do you feel a visceral difference? Do you feel— in what way?

Way more confident, first of all. So we get 4 things when we're down there. We get for the vascular system, we get it for the brain, which are IVs you can't inject. My brain volume's gone up 12% in the last 3 years.

Amazing. That's fantastic.

Yeah. And I can feel it. My clients feel it. They said, you know, you're better than you were 25 years ago.

That's great. And are you getting your own stem cells? Yeah. Or are you getting— okay.

Fat cells and white blood cells.

So what do they do? They extract them? Yeah. Do they modify them?

Yeah, they have to modify them. And he's getting FDA approval, I said, but get the patents because the procedures for creating the magic potion is patentable. So he's going through patents.

Do they reeducate the stem cells?

Yeah.

Or what do they do?

Well, they wake them up. Basically, the stem cells they put in wake up the natural stem cells. That's how it does. But I've got my complete cartilage back in my left knee. The only problem is they're using fat cells and fat doesn't age. So I essentially have a brand new full cartilage. That's a baby's cartilage.

Amazing.

Okay.

Amazing.

Which is okay when you weigh 20 pounds, but it's not okay when you weigh 185 pounds. You can get an MRI that day. If I'm lying down, it's a complete cartilage. If I do full weight on my left knee, it's still— and they don't know because they've never done it with anybody my age. So they're discovering some things. But, you know, walking around doesn't bother me, but if I do any kind of impact work, it bothers me. I'm having to take anti-inflammatories to do it, but we're very happy with them and The doctor who runs the clinic, who is his daughter, the scientist is 75, she's around 50 and she's starting Coach in May. So getting some of my money back.

Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, buddy, this was a fun conversation.

Yeah. The only thing I can say about our discussion is that we haven't seen anything yet.

In what way?

New things.

Oh, in other words, yes. Yeah. We're at the knee of the curve.

Oh yeah.

We're staring up this like near infinite exponential ahead of us. Yes.

Okay, so here's a question before we leave. Yeah. How can you be calm and cool about that? Because that's the real thing. I mean, if you're fully engaged, how do you stay cool and calm about it?

Coming at it with mindset of curiosity and purpose. For me, of all the mindsets I speak about— gratitude mindset, curiosity mindset, purpose, abundance, exponential, moonshot— Longevity Mindsets are the 7 key mindsets I speak about all the time. You know, I think the most critical mindsets— maybe we'll talk about this on our next podcast conversation.

Yeah, let's do that.

You know, it's having a curiosity mindset, a gratitude mindset, and a purpose-driven mindset. If you have those mindsets, you know, it's the most exciting time ever to be alive and being useful.

And being useful.

Yeah.

To the right people.

Take care, pal.

Thanks, Peter.

Bye-bye now.