Independents on the Ballot

It's the fall, and I'm not gonna lie, my health routine has taken a hit these past couple months. I've been on the road, I tweaked something, I've eaten some stuff I should not have eaten, and that's why it's a great time for me to get back to Factor Food. Factor makes chef-crafted, dietitian-designed, ready-to-eat meals so that even a klutz like me can just go heat them up out of the fridge. Real food, and you can taste the quality. You can taste The healthfulness. We're talking about mustard chicken, salmon burgers, shredded pork, collard greens. Factor makes me more effective, healthier, and it can do the same for you too. Let's eat real. Head to factormeals.com/yang50off and use code YANG50OFF to get 50% off and 1 free breakfast item per box for 1 year while supplies last until 10/31/26. That's code Yang50off at factormeals.com. Yang50off at factormeals.com. See website for more details. This week on the Andrew Yang Podcast. Hello listeners. This week on the podcast, we have a collection of my conversations with independent candidates from around the country for US Senate, And even one who's running for governor. Please consider supporting their campaigns this November. These races could change the balance of power in the Senate and beyond and change our national politics for the better. I hope you enjoy the conversations and thank you for listening. It is my pleasure to welcome to the podcast Independent U.S. Senate candidate for the state of Idaho. This is his real name, Army veteran Todd Achilles. Welcome, Todd.

Thanks, Andrew. Good to be on.

So badass. I just love that your last name is Achilles and then you went off and became a tank commander in the U.S. Army. So everyone has to ask, are you descended from the Greek demigod?

It's actually not a Greek last name. It's a German last name. And this is some interesting American history. So, he was a— Ludwig Achilles was a poor kid in central Germany, forced to join the British Army as a Hessian soldier, captured at the Battle of Bennington, Vermont in 1777, spent a year in a POW camp, switched sides, fought with the Americans for the rest of the Revolutionary War, and then settled in Vermont.

And so this is your great-great-great-great-grandfather who's not a demigod and doesn't have a shield?

None of that. Just a poor kid from Germany.

Well, congrats. This means there's an entire Achilles family spread out all over New England and wherever. There is. That's so fun. Were you from a military family? And is that why you enlisted? Or why did you enlist in the US Army back in the day? And where did you grow up? Was it Idaho or someplace else?

I actually grew up in Oregon, so I'm a Northwest kid through and through. The, you know, we didn't have a big military service in our family, you know, a couple of here and there. My dad kind of did his required thing for a few years. You know, my grandfather was a career Foreign Service officer. You know, there was an Achilles Brigade in the Civil War from Rochester, New York. But, you know, I think like a lot of guys, I just felt a duty to serve and this was the right way to do it.

So somehow you get appointed to the Idaho State Legislature a couple of years ago by the governor. How did that come about?

You know, there was, there was an opening for the legislature in my, in my neighborhood in Boise. And of course, I raised my hand and the governor appoints the replacement if there's an opening. So I got appointed by the governor. And, you know, next thing you know, I got the worst job in America. I'm a Democrat in the Idaho House.

Yes, which was, uh, I, I'm sure, um, the majority know. I mean, Idaho— so check it out, and I will say I have been to the vast majority of the country. I've been to 42 states, very well traveled. Um, not been to Idaho, and I will talk about how Idaho is perceived from folks like me, or I'm guessing most people listening to this, uh, that, uh, it's a red state. It grows potatoes. There are some awesome natural, like, features and vistas and beautiful mountains, Boise and the surrounding areas and some other places. But it seems like an unusual place to run for Senate. That said, the incumbent is a guy named Jim Risch. He's a Republican. I believe he's 83 years old right now.

Correct.

Yeah, that's old. I mean, real old.

That's really old.

Yeah, really old. And what strikes me is what's happened in Idaho, and we can talk about the dynamics of why you decided to upgrade from the State House to the US Senate. And people will probably be unsurprised to know this, but I'm supportive of your campaign. I've donated to your campaign. I think it's an awesome opportunity, and we'll talk a little bit more about why that is. But I think that Idaho has been ignored by the Democratic Party, and maybe to some extent the Republican Party, because it's just like hanging out there. Jim Risch is just gonna be centered until he dies, and even when he dies, they'll just jam in some replacement and it'll be, you know, it'll be like, this is politics as usual. A Democrat is completely hapless or hopeless in a statewide race in Idaho. I'm guessing like the last person who ran for Senate against Risch, probably lost by like 18 to 20 points or something along those lines.

Usually in a statewide race, a Dem will get 30% of the vote.

Yeah. So it's even worse than I said, 30-70. I was guessing, you know, 39-61 kind of thing, but it's like 30-70. And so the Democrats obviously completely ignore Idaho statewide. You joked about Being a Democratic state legislator, what was the ratio in the statehouse?

It was 9 to 70— 9 of 70, sorry, or 9 to 61. But the interesting thing, and I think this is where you just pull back a few layers, it's way more complex that's going on. But by the way, the other really important metric on Idaho is we have 2 million people and 2.5 million cows. And so, you know, the ag industry—

The

state-to-power

ratio is the highest in the country.

The ag industry is super important in the state. But when you look at the politics, you know, the longest serving governor in the state's history was a Democrat, C. Sanders, but just sort of that pragmatic centrist Dem. And then, you know, the second longest serving governor was a Republican, also sort of center-right pragmatic. a centrist Republican. Um, and, and, and I think the, the fundamental issue is that the, the DNC, the national Dems, have given up on little red states like Idaho and Wyoming and the Dakotas and Nebraska and the rest of them.

Yeah.

And so for a generation, there's been no countervailing force. So, so long as politics is this binary exercise and there's nothing on, you know, one side of the ledger, then of course the politics are going to look like it's a deep red state, and it's, and it's not. You know, Idaho's a center-right state.

Yeah, I sense that they know that Jim Risch is just gonna be a rubber stamp on whatever the heck the Republican agenda is. And so if they don't like what's emanating from DC right now, you know, that's not a way to vote. If you think of this 30-70 thing, so you would start out, and we'll talk about this a little bit. I mean, there's some word about the Democrat stepping aside. and letting you have this one-on-one contest because them being there is kind of a waste of time. And this is one of the clearest signs of, you know, like, you know who's gonna be the spoiler and like waste the votes? The Democrat for sure in this context. But you would start out with 30% of the folks who voted for like the last Dem candidate. And then the question is, can you find 21% of independents, which are two-thirds of the state? And I'm gonna say like, obviously yes. Depending upon whether you have the resources, and we'll talk about that a little bit. So, you know, I donated, I have friends who've donated, but obviously— and one of the magical elements of this contest is that Idaho is a very, very cheap state to get the word out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. You know, what's interesting is, you know, we're— and I, you know, from my corporate experience, I'm a really numbers-driven guy. So we do weekly tracking polls and everything else. And what's interesting is we're We're seeing 30 to 35% of Republicans coming over to our campaign.

Sure.

I believe it. And I think what's really interesting on this, Andrew, I mean, that's— and it's across the spectrum. So a lot of Republicans that are part of the MAGA movement, I mean, this is not what they signed up for. The economy, the engagement in Iran, you know, all of this other stuff. This is not what they signed up for.

Tariffs are really bad for farmers. And there are a lot of farmers in Idaho.

Horrible. Right. Biggest part of our economy is ag. We're gonna see some just awful bankruptcies in '26 and '27 as a result of all of this stuff. So younger Republicans are disenchanted. They still can't buy a house. They still can't afford to have kids. You know, like moderate, my LDS Republican friends from Eastern Idaho, you know, they don't like the ethics and the values that are coming outta the administration right now. And then there's just a lot of kind of old school. It's sort of that Western center-right Republican That, you know, they're— they've been true to their values since Reagan, but the party's gone way off, off into the corner. I

was going to say the Reagan Republicans. Exactly.

Yeah. And they're not happy with this either. And then, you know, there's twice as many registered independents or unaffiliated voters in Idaho as there are Democrats. Registered Dems are only 13% of the state. Registered independents are 27%, 28%. The rest are Republicans. Uh, and those independents haven't had somebody to get fired up about, uh, until our campaign. So we're, we're get— we're getting them energized too. So it's— I mean, the numbers are there. Listen, it's— it takes a hard— a ton of work. We got to execute incredibly well, but the numbers support there's a path to win here. And Idaho is a really inexpensive state. We got 4 tiny media markets, uh, and this is, this is absolutely a winnable race.

What else is clicking with Idaho independent voters and otherwise?

I mean, a lot of it are the economic issues. You know, 60% of Idahoans don't earn a livable wage. 60%, Andrew. You know, we're probably going to lose 100,000 Idahoans, or 100,000 Idahoans are going to lose their health insurance this year as a result of eliminating the subsidies and other changes, lack of competition in the insurance market. Roughly 125,000 young Idaho couples under 40 who just, I mean, they wanna start a family, but, you know, daycare's twice as much as their mortgage. I talked to a young couple who are small business owners. They can't afford health insurance for their family. They had 2 young girls.

Sad, yeah.

I mean, Andrew, it's just broken, man. I mean, and it didn't, that didn't just happen. It was an intentional outcome because of policy decisions, right? and not putting just basic guardrails on the market. And we have— I mean, Walmart is the largest private employer in Idaho, 9,000 employees. They've got 27 stores. If you look at the per-store metrics, they're probably doing over $3 billion revenue in the state, probably shipping back to Arkansas a quarter billion dollars, $250 million, something like that. And they are— when you look at Idahoans on the Medicaid expansion, population. It's about 80,000 Idahoans, right? They're, they're making too much money to be eligible for Medicaid but not enough for the health exchange. Um, the number one employer is Walmart. The number two employer is Amazon. The number three employer is McDonald's. So Idaho taxpayers are subsidizing, you know, the biggest retailer in the world. One in 8 of their employees are getting healthcare from Idaho taxpayers. Amazon is, is just outrageous in terms of how they treat their employees in the state. And this is, you know, and I've spent most of my career in 2 Fortune 100s. I'm disgusted by what I see, Andrew. It's completely outrageous what corporate America is doing right now. And I think we need to hold them accountable. And I mean, without sounding corny, we need to get back to when these corporations were families, man, and they felt a duty to their employees and a duty to their communities. And it wasn't just this extractive capitalism where, you know, little red states like us and Wyoming and the others, I mean, we just get taken— we get taken advantage of.

How can people, how can people boost your campaign, get behind you? Where can they go to donate?

Yeah, well, Andrew, I appreciate your support of the campaign too. You know, achillesforidaho.com is the website. You know, there's a donate button there. People can jump on. You know, the support is just deeply appreciated. We run a really lean campaign and we're punching way above our weight right now. And help from more folks would make a huge difference there. And if you're in Idaho, you know, join our volunteer army. We've got over 1,300 volunteers that have signed up all over the state. You know, we intend to just be a door-knocking machine for the last couple months. We want to knock on a third of the doors in the state. That's about a quarter million doors and have those conversations. And I think the really interesting thing is running as an independent in Idaho The typical exchange is like this. It's like, hey, I'm Todd. I'm running against Jim Risch. They're like, oh, that's great. He's too old. He needs to go. Now, what are you, man? Are you a Republican or are you a Democrat? And, you know, I respond with, well, neither. I'm running as an independent. And the response is invariably, man, I like you already.

You would be a phenomenal antidote to much of what ails us.

I appreciate that, Andrew. Thanks for the time, man.

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Thank you, André, for having me. And I'm actually 6'8, so even a little bit taller than you thought.

That— see, I under-promise, over-deliver. 6'8, so much authority. Maybe that's how you wound up not just like an Air Force instructor, but you've done a whole lot of things. You've been a real leader throughout your career. Where to start? Well, first, You grew up in Iowa, which is a place I've spent a fair amount of time. And you have a lot of warmth and love for your home state.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Iowa made me who I am, certainly. And then the Air Force made me who I am now. But the small town values— I grew up in a town of 500 people in the last graduating class of the high school before it ceased to exist anymore, class of '17. That small townness is what I carried with me forward, and it made me want to move back to a small town, which is what I've done now.

So you come back to the States post-Air Force about 10 years ago and become a professor in South Dakota, and then you found yourself in a situation where you thought, you know what, this country could use better leadership, which it definitely could. We spent a little bit of time together, so I find you to be A very sensible, pragmatic, level-headed sort. And it seems like you've been a political independent all these years.

Yeah, with the exception of a short period that I'll tell you about. I registered as an independent first when I turned 18. So I had the foresight back in 1988 to go, you know what, I don't want to be married to either Team Red or Team Blue. I like to think for myself. And so it made it a lot easier when you're in the military because in the military you have to be apolitical. So most, not most military folks, I think, tend to be independents. But in 2021, the fall of 2021, I was watching, or I had watched what had happened with January 6th and thought, you know what, the current Majority Leader of the Senate, John Thune, needs to have a challenger. And the Chuck Schumer Democratic Party, national party, was set to let him just kind of coast to reelection. So I called up the South Dakota Democratic Party and said, you know what, I would prefer to run as an independent, but if necessary, I can run as a Democrat. And so that's what ended up happening. And I registered as a Democrat for 13 months and then unregistered after the election.

It happens, man. There are millions of Americans who are registered with a party for convenience, to be able to vote, to be able to participate in our process. Um, what it sounds like, you've been an independent for, um, gosh, not to put a date on you, but you know, like 30-some-odd years or something like that. Um, uh, versus, uh, a year or so as a Dem for, uh, practicality's sake. I, I think you're right too, that military veterans tend to be independent and pragmatic. Um, that there's a notion that folks who serve are all conservative, um, which I don't think is quite right. You know, that there's been actually, you know, much better than I because you've taught and interacted with at this point thousands of people. Like, what was your experience?

Well, there's definitely some hardcore conservatives. You can't deny that. But by and large, you're expected to, when you're on active duty, to not display any partisan behavior. So it is kind of hard to read people. people because we're all working towards the same thing. It's only when you're talking offline in, you know, at a bar or something like that, that you might get a hinge of that. But most people, myself included, just kept our views to ourselves. And, you know, you salute and do what you're told. So I don't think it is accurate to say that the military is overwhelmingly conservative or Republican, but it is certainly the most vocal aspect of it. Most people are just kind of keep down and keep swimming and probably a mixed bag like I was of, I like that, but I don't like this. So tend to more independent thinking.

You're now running as an independent candidate in a state that I believe needs an independent candidate in the worst way because it's a red state, at least if you look at the national map and the vote for Trump. And one thing that I'm passionate about is that the Democrats do not meaningfully try in the vast majority of the rural areas, the vast majority of the red or reddish areas around the country. And they're like, yeah. And one of early Forward adopters and Yang Gangers, Blair Walsingham, who, like a lot of people who've been listening to me for a long time, know about. She ran for Congress in Tennessee and became the Democratic nominee in a very reddish district in Tennessee, as most of the state is. And so she becomes the Democratic nominee and then has a call with the state Democratic Party and is like, hey, I'm your nominee to be a member of Congress in this district. Do you guys send me money? Do I get stuff? And then the state party was like, no, no, no, you send us money. And then she's like, I send you money? Like, I don't have any money. I'm like, you know, and Blair was a military veteran herself and a mom. And she's like, wait a minute, like what? And so the Democratic Party was not exactly running to help Blair and is not rushing to help other candidates who step up in rural South Dakota, I'm imagining.

Yeah, well, obviously I can speak from experience having been the 2022 Democratic nominee against John Thune. And I was, in hindsight, I was woefully naive when I started that. I was thinking the traditional method of like, you get out and you talk to people. That seems to be what you do. And I thought, well, as a military retiree, I have time to get out and hang out in the cafes and go to the small towns and talk to people. I did not realize the importance importance of money in this issue. And I can speak to the question of will the National Party give you any support? And the best I can say is they did not give money to John Thune. That is the extent of my support. Having been the nominee for the Senate in South Dakota, they, they've just written off these red states because it's hard to compete here. And it is very different than the coasts. The people are very different. Their lived experience is very different. You have to compete differently. You can't just treat it like it's California or Texas or something like that. You have to have a different approach, which is what I'm trying to model this time.

Yeah. So, um, I've not been to South Dakota, as will become evident on national TV, uh, pretty quickly. I think you're, you'll, you'll see what I'm talking about in a minute. Um, but then there's, uh, um, Mount Rushmore is in South Dakota, right?

It is.

Yeah. Yeah. So see, that's something I did not know.

It's about an hour north, an hour north of where I am right now.

Yeah, look at that. But I'm raising this because you talk about, hey, it's a different kind of place. Like, I imagine that it's predominantly rural, predominantly agricultural, and a lot of hardship. You know, when I talked to Todd Achilles, who's running for Senate in Idaho, he was like, look, most people here make below the living wage. And Healthcare is a massive problem and they're like massive problems. So I'm imagining that South Dakota feels similar.

Oh, absolutely. We were just, we're kind of in the midst of hitting all the less traveled parts of the state, at least in the west before we go do that in the east. And I was just talking to my staffer that was with me the other day. You go into these small towns and you can drive down Main Street and you see the old buildings and they're kind of in disrepair. And you just feel bad that the town was once thriving and it is now a poster of, you know, bad policies that have left out and left behind the working class, the agricultural, the rural communities in favor of, you know, as long as Wall Street's doing well, everybody's fine. That's not the case. The main streets in these small towns— and I grew up in a small town and I feel the same way— it feels bad going home because It, it, it's not what I remember, uh, back then. And it wasn't even, you know, a bright shining economic star then. It was— the decline was starting. So these places, they feel forgotten. And they're, they're hardcore Republicans in the sense they're like, oh yeah, uh, you go up to them— if you go up to them and say, hey, I'm running as a Democrat, they will not be well received. But you You can go up to them and say, I'm running as an independent, and I noticed that you've got these problems, and they will agree with you and engage with you. So it is a very different experience than what I had in 2022.

Congratulations on mounting such a high-level, credible campaign. Uh, if you do break through and make it to the Capitol, it would be a game changer. Um, and this is exactly the kind of tinder you put together, and then, you know, you'd be like, hey, if lightning strikes and we like end up shocking the world, and you are doing your part. And I feel like our part, the collective we, is to try and get behind you in any way we can. So if someone wants to donate to your campaign, which again I have done, what is the best place for them to go? How can we support you if, for example— yeah, no, I was gonna say if we don't know anyone in South Dakota, which is a real possibility, I'm guessing it's probably Send a few bucks.

Yeah, that's the easiest thing. So I would also highlight that my average contribution is about $29. So we're doing it with like the grassroots, you know, low-dollar donors. Of course, I don't want to dissuade any big-dollar donors out there. So please come here this direction as well. But the easiest is the website bangs4southdakota.com. And that is bangs4southdakota.com. You'll learn more than you ever wanted about my background, how I think, and my positions on policies. My campaign manager claims that I might have more substantive policy writings on the website than any other Senate candidate in the country, 'cause I like diving deep into policy and talking about the nuances and everything.

It is bangs4southdakota.com. Brian Bangs, man, I was enthusiastic about your campaign before sitting down for this interview. I'm even more enthusiastic now. I have donated more than $29. I'm happy to report. But I certainly hope that people do donate, let their friends know. Maybe, you know, even if you don't live in South Dakota, you can always phone or text bank into South Dakota. And who knows, maybe someone will even take it upon themselves to head on to the state and spend some time with you. And who knows, maybe that person will be me.

Well, if things go well, ideally what I'd like to do to do is what I naively thought was the way to do it in '22, was spend time out in the small towns and just hang out the cafes and bars and talking to people. And I've been doing a little bit of that, but, uh, if we can raise the money, I plan to buy an RV and just do that every night in a different town and, and go to the bar and, hey everybody, what do you think about these things? And I'm really trying to portray myself as, uh, like a Teddy Roosevelt Republican. an FDR Democrat, a JFK Democrat, an Eisenhower Republican. So trying to squish together all these things that we have loved in the past.

Hello, listeners. You like money? I like money. Let's help everyone save some money. So I started Noble Mobile, the first cell phone plan that pays you To use it less, a data dividend. That's right, it's for real. Go to noblemobile.com/yang and find out how you can get bonus cash just for signing up. Get months for free, the whole shebang. It's awesome. Go to noblemobile.com/yang to find out more. It is my pleasure to welcome to the podcast independent candidate for governor of the great state of Tennessee, PhD, international entrepreneur, mom of 4, I want to say, and all-around superstar Lauren Pinkston. Welcome, Lauren.

Thank you, Andrew. This is a joy to be with you today.

Yes. Well, you and I had a chance to meet a couple of months ago, and it's a lot of fun unpacking your story. So tell people about yourself and how the heck you came to be candidate for governor. Right now, if people can see you, you're actually in the bowels of a public library in rural Tennessee because you're on the campaign trail.

That's right. 26 counties in the last 2 weeks. We are busy meeting as many people as possible. And so it's been such a joy to cross the state and to hear from people who are so fed up. With politics on both sides. And I think Tennessee gets overlooked a lot as a deeply red state, but we are a purple state that has had a supermajority for the last 10 years. So we can get into the weeds on that. But when I looked at the candidates for governor this year, it just felt so unserious and felt that the things that have been shifting with a supermajority in our state over the last decade were things that I was not okay with going forward. And so, as you said, I'm a mom of 4. My kids are 16 down to 4 years old, and I love this state. I grew up in a rural part of West Tennessee, 7 generations back here in the state, and I don't recognize the state that I'm living in right now because we've always had things to be so proud of, very progressive in some of our policies and in a lot of the things that have taken us through history. So let's make sure we talk about the cool things that Tennessee has done in history because that's baked into our DNA here in the state, and people just haven't had anyone to vote for. And so that's why we were dead last in voter turnout in the last midterm election. People are looking for somebody to vote for instead of against, and I wanted to make sure they had that option.

Wow. Well, thank you for running, and thank you for campaigning so diligently and broadly by traveling around the state. So check it out. I might be a fairly normal, you know, East Coaster in the sense that I have been to Nashville.

There's a lot more to Tennessee than Nashville, but it is It is what attracts so many people here. And it is, it's a magical, it's a magical place for sure.

Yeah. So the way that an outsider like me might see Tennessee is similar to some other parts of the country where you have a thriving metropolis that is, I think, blue, right? It's one of those kind of bluish dots.

It tries to be. Yeah, voter turnout's pretty low. But yes, it's a blue dot for sure.

Yeah, yeah, it's a blue dot. And then it's surrounded by what people presume to be Republicans and conservatives in rural areas. But I know that that's a real oversimplification. We just had on the podcast some people that you've met, Todd Achilles, who's running in Idaho as an independent, Brian Bangs, who's running for Senate in South Dakota as an independent. Yeah. And so if you look at a map, all you see is boom, like red blotch.

Right.

And then they're like, no, no, you like talk to actual people in real life. Um, if there's anything that unifies them is that they're ticked off at the status quo, the establishment, politics as usual.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's what I'm hearing across the state as well. You know, people are, are looking for an off-ramp to the extremism. And so if you're a red dot in Tennessee, you're pretty well disaffected by what has happened in DC over the last 2 years, if not the last 10. And if you are a blue dot in Tennessee, you're, you're frustrated as well because the— I think both parties are going through this realignment that no one really knows where they're landing. The elections in New York have really thrown off the conversation around the Democratic movement in Tennessee. And in Tennessee specifically, our state party just got hit with a million-dollar lawsuit last week by former treasurer. So they don't have any money. That party is crumbling. On the right, we have an assumption of a red stronghold, but our party structure in Tennessee is so weak because we're one of 7 states that still has semi-open primaries. And so the party structure is just not there. And some things that have been done by the state GOP have really turned off a lot of elected officials across the state. So yeah, consistently what I hear is, I'm not voting for her, talking about the Republican front-runner, Marsha Blackburn, and I'm not voting for a Democrat. And So people are looking for something different.

Yeah. So when you talk about— so one, Republican voters who have moral values deeply uncomfortable running for— sorry, voting for Trump, and that's understated. The other thing that's understated is the Democratic Party has failed not once but twice in terms of providing any kind of quality alternative to Trump. And, you know, it's like— and by the way, this is one reason why the Democratic Party brand is so deep underwater. And now you're seeing this schism from within the Democratic Party manifest in some of the Democratic Socialist candidates winning, albeit in very, very deep blue areas. And this is one of the things that's like, you know, people talk about. It's like, look, are you trying to legislate? Because you're trying to legislate, then you probably need to get a majority. And if you want a majority, then you're going to need folks like Pat Ryan, who's a military veteran running in, you know, uh, like a purple district to win. And if he started, uh, doing the DSA thing, it probably hurt him. Right, right, right.

But man, I mean, the people who are only watching conservative talk, you know, talk shows or, or listening to those radio shows, they're only being fed fear around the DSA movement. And so it's, it's interesting to see that that fear only being more and more entrenched and an opportunity to actually pull people closer to them. And this is why we need more than 2 parties, right? This is why we need 4 to 6 parties, because in any moment in time, you know, the 2-party system has not served us well. And so we really, we need coalitions around really divisive issues. And it's okay if you, if you side with one coalition on this issue and a different coalition on another issue if that's the best idea. We're capitalist everywhere except for our politics. And I'm so tired of parties fighting instead of good ideas.

So when you do talk to Tennesseans, aside from the fact it's like, oh, wow, you're actually a real person and a break from the bickering and nonsense and the status quo, I'm imagining they care about being able to afford a decent life for their kids and families, for decent schools, like the things we all care about.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Tennessee has grown 14% over the last decade, and so our communities have really felt the crunch and really felt squeezed when it comes to infrastructure and resources. Housing has been huge, as you know. You know, the average age of a home— first-time homebuyer is 38 now, and that's not the state that I grew up in. That's not, that's not the reality. We're 90,000 slots short when it comes to childcare. So at the top of my initiatives is opening up 50,000 of those slots in my first 4 years as governor and working to do that nearsite and onsite with industry because people should be able to be close to their kids when they go to work. And right now you can't attract industry in the rural parts of the state because of the lack of childcare. So that's a huge focus for me. Education is huge as well for people because we have a newly pushed through voucher system that has really just been a government subsidy for the wealthy and in the larger cities in Tennessee to send their kids to school. Over 90% of the people who were already in private school are the ones that are receiving those vouchers, and the average income of the people receiving those vouchers is $170,000. So people are very unhappy with that being pushed through. And so affordability and education are huge. Healthcare is, of course, another one. Tennessee has the highest maternal mortality rate in the country now.

No.

And yes. Terrible. I mean, we're like, we're in a state now where we're looking at Mississippi thinking that could be, that could be good. And that's never been nice. No, no, no shame to Mississippi, but you know.

Mississippi is having a moment where they are something where California schools are underperforming Mississippi. You know, I think Michigan might have, might be behind them in some measurements. So congratulations, Mississippi, but that's still not what you want if you're in Tennessee.

I mean, that's kind of what we've always carried with us. Like we're Southern, but at least we're not Mississippi. And that's, That's not true anymore. We have more hospital closures now in Tennessee. We're the fastest growing state for hospital closures in the country as well. We are $83 billion behind in road and bridge infrastructure backlog projects. Just so many things that have happened in this uniparty system where people are saying, okay, well, maybe even Lamar Alexander himself said this creates lazy legislators and we have, we have just grossly failed. You know, our people.

Competition, it's good for the soul. It's good for policy. It's good for driving results. Lack of competition tends to lead to laziness and self-dealing and like bloat and underperformance and inefficient use of resources and lack of accountability. All the things we pretty much are experiencing.

That's right. That's right. That's right. And so for all of the business people who have run all their business acumen, it's not translating to government. And I'd like to, I'd like to see that changed.

Well, if anyone's going to be able to change it, it's you, Lauren. Again, I have donated to your campaign and would love for other people to let their friends in Tennessee know about your candidacy. And if you're not, and if you don't own in Tennessee, there are still many ways you can help. What is your website and how can people best get behind you?

Yeah, it's pinkstonfortn.com. So pink like the color, S-T-O-N-F-O-R-T-N.com. There's a place to sign up for a call from me on the website. So if you have more questions, you can actually get on my calendar directly through there. There are loads of policy positions, over 100, that you can see exactly where I stand on things. That was, that was my favorite thing about your campaign in 2020. I, you had over 400 positions there and it was just really refreshing. And Yeah, I'm all over social media as well. So Pinkston for TN at all the social media outlets. So lots of ways to get involved.

Well, you're an awesome human. I'm sure a great parent. I'm sure some of your kids are schlepping around with you on the road. It's one of the joys of campaigning where you get to bring them with you and they get to see mom or dad and actually try to make things better. And I'm sure everywhere you go when people Understand who you are and why you're running. They realize that you're offering them a better path. Thank you for running. Thank you for everything that you're doing for your for your long-term support of and championing forward as a means to bring communities together and actually give Americans the solutions that we've been waiting for for so long. Pinkston for TN dot com. Lauren Pinkston. Think pink, donate pink. Uh, it's, uh, certainly, uh, it would be a real respite from, um, the red versus blue, not just in Tennessee, uh, but around the country. Thank you, Lauren.

Thank you, Andrew, so much.

It is my pleasure to welcome to the podcast one of the most interesting political figures in the country, in my opinion. He is running for U.S. Senate in Montana as an independent, the former president of the University of Montana and Special Forces veteran, Seth Bodnar. Welcome, Seth.

Thanks, Andrew. It's great to be here. Really appreciate the opportunity to join you today.

No problem. So you've got a bio that I got to admit just reads like a Hollywood script. It's crazy. So grew up in Pennsylvania. I think you went to West Point and finished first in your class. Is that possible?

I did, yes. I was— I got a little lucky for sure.

I mean, so that's nuts. And you then went and served in Iraq as a Special Forces commander. You're still a member of the National Guard to this day in Montana, I think. Yeah,

I'm actually in the reserve now.

Yeah, but in the reserve, somewhere in there, you also somehow became a Rhodes Scholar. I don't know how that order of operations even works. And then you married someone. She's like a longtime Montanan, and you became president of the University of Montana and were in that role for, gosh, it seems like a number of years. Maybe was it like 7 or 8 years?

Yeah, about 8 years. Yep.

Yeah, took it from shrinking to growing. And then you made the very dramatic recent decision, which is what we're going to talk about now, to run for U.S. Senate. Can you tell us about what led you to make that campaign happen?

Yeah, well, thank you, Andrew. I mean, it boils down to, like you, I feel like this country is headed in the wrong direction. You know, we're on a path to hand over a country to our kids that is less secure, less prosperous, more divided, more in debt, in which they have fewer rights than we had. You know, going back a little bit further in my background, you know, I'm the son of 2 public school teachers. You know, they taught me from a very early age that we have an important role to serve the community around us. As you mentioned, I joined the military at the age of 18, served 10 years on active duty, then worked in the business world. I worked at GE in the rail division selling locomotives and and software for the rail industry. And then, and then 8 years ago, came back to lead the University of Montana. You know, I'm married to an incredible woman, a pediatrician who has dedicated her life to expanding access to healthcare, and particularly in rural and tribal areas. And she and I are really blessed to be raising 3 kids in this great state. We have 15-year-old twins and a 12-year-old. And those 3 kiddos are the reason why this was both hard, but also the reason why I felt compelled to jump into this. They deserve better than the political leadership that we're, that we're getting right now in this country.

So you were also endorsed by a guy named Jon Tester, who I thought was an incredibly powerful signal. So people who don't know who Jon Tester is, he was the senator from Montana as a Democrat for a long time. And he was one of these old school senators where he wasn't, you know, didn't read as a conventional Democrat, I would say.

Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, guy focused on common sense, right? A good leader. And what we're doing is we're building a broad coalition of, of, of obviously of independents, of Republicans, of Democrats. You know, we've had this support from across the political spectrum. Another leader here in Montana is Mark Roscoe, Governor Mark Roscoe, very popular 2-term governor here in the state, actually chaired the RNC the Republican National Committee, and has also been very supportive publicly of this campaign. And, you know, I've talked to elected Democrats around the state, elected Republicans around the state, and there's broad bipartisan support, again, for something new. And it's not just the anger at the parties, but it's, I think, anger and justified anger at a failed model of leadership in this country. You know, something I've been talking about is just this sense among our leaders that political leadership is a privilege, not service. You know, I've been talking just about this past month and you watch a government shutdown, you know, DHS shutdown, you know, frontline workers, federal workers, whether that's in the Coast Guard, FEMA, Cyber Infrastructure Security Agency in a time of war, these people working without pay.

Yeah.

You know, because Congress can't figure it out. And then Congress goes on vacation. You know, in what world do leaders allow their people to not get paid while they go on vacation, still collecting a paycheck, by the way? It's unacceptable. And, and the fact that we've come to accept that as normal is all the indication you need To, to tell you we need a different approach to politics in this country.

Imagine you trying that, uh, with your, uh, Special Forces battalion. Be like, hey guys, um, I'm going on vacation and you guys don't get paid. Uh, I'll see you after the mission. I mean, you know, it'd be nuts.

Yeah, they tell you first day, first day at West Point, you know, you have it drilled into your head that a leader eats last. You know, they say that a platoon leader, when it's, when it's mealtime, A good platoon leader, good commander, makes sure that every one of his or her soldiers gets fed before they eat. And if there's not enough food, guess who doesn't eat? The lieutenant. Leaders eat last. And we've— we have this sense among many of our political leaders, not all, but many of our political leaders, that they eat first, that they're— that they can just spend time dividing us, distracting us while they enrich themselves with insider information, while they collect the paycheck, government shutdown after government shutdown. While hardworking Americans of all political parties continue to suffer, continue to see rising costs, continue to see lower opportunities. And, and again, we need something different. And, and again, the start of this campaign, the momentum we've built has shown that there's a lot of people that agree with that.

And according to my math, one Senate vote from Montana is equal to one Senate vote from any other state.

Yes, it is. You know, and, and, and one Senate vote, uh, makes a huge difference on a lot of issues. Right. You know, one of the things that's important to us here in Montana is public lands, maintaining access to our public lands. You know, one of the things Montanans agree upon, uh, whether that's hunters like myself— I'm a hunter— you know, uh, people who care deeply about conservation of the environment, we, we believe here in Montana that we have an obligation of stewardship. to be good stewards of the natural treasures and the beauty of this state, to care for that for future generations, to maintain access for everybody. Whether you're a millionaire or whether you make minimum wage, public lands are our common ground. And we just saw an action in the US Senate last week where we saw our US Senate approve a Chilean mine operator for a mine upstream of the Boundary Waters. Wow. In Minnesota, one of our nation's most cherished national treasures. And this was accomplished through basically an end-around process. One vote, one vote in the US Senate could have stopped that. And, and we care about that in Montana because it sets a dangerous precedent for the potential for people to sell off our public lands. And I bring that up as just one example of an issue where one vote in the U.S. Senate could have made a difference.

I'm going to throw another one in there for fun. Um, confirmation of, um, let's say Kash Patel or like one of these other figures. I mean, that could have been down to one vote. And so, you know, it's pivotal. Um, I'm sure you get asked this all the time, but after you win, uh, quote unquote, who would you caucus with, um, in the Senate? Because everyone thinks that you need a

Yeah, look, I've said publicly I'm not playing at a caucus with either party. And that's part of the problem is we elect leaders, we send them to the US Senate, and then when they get there, they put on a jersey, right? A red one with an R, a blue one with a D. And then that becomes the team that they fight for, right? They fight to beat the other team. They fight to advance the interests of their team. Meanwhile, the voters that sent them there get left behind.

Yeah.

I'm going to go to the US Senate if I'm fortunate enough to get there with a jersey that says M on it for Montana. And I'm going to fight every single day for the people of this great state. And I'm going to work with other like-minded, independent-minded senators to form a new bloc that's focused on working on bipartisan solutions. that serve the vast majority of Americans that are in what I call the sensible center.

I love this path for you and for the country, Seth. You're making me want to donate again. If someone wants to help your campaign and keep up with you and your journey, how can they best do so?

Well, thank you, Andrew. Thank you for your support. And, and yeah, we're building a movement here and we've got off to a good start in terms of fundraising. We got a lot of work to do. You know, this is a campaign that we have to build the resources to get out to, like I said, every nook and cranny of this state and speak with every Montanan. So we're building a grassroots campaign that we want to be tech-enabled as well. And I would encourage anyone who is listening to go to our website, sethformontana.com, s-e-t-h-f-o-r-montana.com. You can click the donate, you can donate through multiple platforms. And would love to have your support because, as you mentioned too, Andrew, there's a lot of important Senate races happening, a lot of important governor races happening. You know, one of the interesting things about Montana, you mentioned it's only a million people, and we can get out there and we can speak to voters. So an impact of a contribution to our campaign, you know, as compared to other maybe larger states, It has an outsized impact on this race because, yeah, it takes money, but relatively speaking, we're a cheap date compared to some of these other races. And that's really important, I think, for folks to notice. But to your earlier point, we're a relatively small state, a relatively cheap date from a campaign standpoint, but it's still the same weight, one vote in the US Senate, as some of these larger state races.

SethForMontana.com. Uh, what a candidate, what a story, uh, and what a senator he'll make.

Thanks, Andrew.

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U.S. Senate candidate for the great state of Nebraska, U.S. Navy veteran, union leader, mechanic, pipefitter, The man who wants to fix not just Nebraska, but maybe even Washington, D.C., Dan Osborne. Welcome, Dan.

Thank you. Thank you. It's good to see you, Andrew.

It's good to see you too. So anyone who's watching this on video, I think you're doing this from your garage. And

yeah, I'm actually on my lunch break from work, so I figured I'd pop at home and I, I just realized it's pretty messy. I need to clean it.

Yeah. So people who've been listening to the podcast for a while will recognize you from your independent Senate candidacy. Gosh, I guess, was that '24? Did I make that up?

Yeah, seems like a lifetime ago.

Yeah, and I wanna say you got 47% as an independent unknown mechanic candidate, which must have been wild. I don't think, I guess we haven't publicly debriefed about that, but how was that experience?

Yeah, it was wild. We started with nothing but an idea actually, A lot of people don't know the origin story of how we got started. I basically was recruited. There's a group of railroaders out in North Platte, Nebraska. North Platte boasts the largest rail yard in the country, and they were upset with Senator Fischer on the way she votes on rail. I mean, for example, she headed the Transportation Committee that allowed railroads to police their own safety, and now they have death factored in as acceptable. So, you know, they wanted to find an independent, preferably a labor leader, to run against her, and they found me. And it took me about 3 weeks of deliberating, talking to my friends and family, anybody I cared about or respected. And, you know, most people told me not to do it, that I wouldn't get any kind of support. But so I went ahead and decided to do it anyway. And fast forward, And to 47% of the vote. And we did that through a lot of hard work, a lot of dedication, hiring the right people. And ultimately, we had the right message and we were effective in getting it out and to the people in Nebraska. And I think it just really goes to show people are ready for a true change and not just, you know, somebody telling them something from one of the parties. I think people are a bit jaded. with their duopoly two-party system right now.

You put such a scare into the establishment that they had to spend 8 figures trying to tank your campaign down the stretch, which is something that no one would've anticipated. Everyone thinks the Republicans are gonna have to spend $0 holding a Senate seat in ruby red Nebraska. And then I wanna say they had to spend $13 million to bring your numbers down when polls showed you tying or beating, um, the incumbent. And they spent that money on ads saying you were— drum roll please— a secret Democrat. I think that, that, you know, is like the most effective attack you could level, um, uh, in a place like Nebraska.

Yep. Yeah, they did. And, you know, they're at it again. My opponent Ricketts, Pete Ricketts, has, uh, already spent $90,000 on radio Uh, ad buys, and, uh, I know he's got TV points reserved, and, and it's the same message. They'll, they'll spend another $50 million, uh, trying to paint me out to be somebody I'm not. The facts are I've been a registered— both my wife and I actually have been registered independents from the time I could vote. I've never understood why I have to, you know, accept, uh, a set of values and reject another set to be a part of a party. But, I think really the secret sauce going out, we did 200 town halls and I learned a lot from the people of Nebraska. Hopefully, we'll do another 250. We're just going to go out and meet people where they are, where they live, where they work, where they pray and celebrate and really learn from them and continually learning from them. And, it's really just About how I'm able to, I suppose, mesh with them, right? And to understand them and they can understand me. And I like to call it paycheck populism. I was doing an exit interview and they said, oh, you ran this really strong economic populist campaign. And I go, I did? I don't really know what that means. Well, what part of the economy? It's this huge broad entity. And specifically what part of it, I don't know. But what I do know is I was able to relate to people based off of our paychecks. I get a paycheck every week. I know how much comes in and I know how much goes out and I know how much policy influences my paycheck. And it's becoming increasingly difficult to live off my same paycheck that it was 4 or 5 years ago. And that's because inflation, healthcare, I mean, you name it, the subject, there's a good chance you could relate it back to your paycheck. and how policy influences that. And tariffs now, I mean, everything is going up so quickly. I'm feeling the squeeze. And most of the people that I talk to on a daily basis are also feeling that same squeeze. And they know because I tell everybody, and I'll tell your audience too, that's something I'm sure you already know, that less than 2% of our elected officials in both the House and Senate come from the working class or the wage-earning class or blue-collar, however you wanna say it. And it's been that way in our country from the very beginning.

So you're right that the folks who are in DC were always something of like the economic elite, but it's much more extreme now than it used to be even. I think like a majority of members of Congress are millionaires, which was not the case even, I think, in like the, let's say the '90s. It's just gotten much, much more egregious. You know, I think that your, campaign of the mechanic versus the millionaire is going to be very resonant. And when you talk about feeling the pinch or the squeeze, it's going to be tough for Pete Ricketts to say that he feels the squeeze because, you know, he's from like a billionaire family and is, you know, like well beyond those concerns. And, you know, I'm not someone who's like going to take someone to task for what family they're born into, but it certainly makes it much, much harder for him to relate to the average Nebraskan.

That's so true. You know, I like to say Ricketts doesn't care if the local public pool closes down because he's got 10 of them, right? You know, and that's something that I like to use because I grew up in the local public pool. That was my summers as a kid. And, you know, so I think it's something a lot of people can relate to. And, you know, there's a lot of public pools around Nebraska that weren't open this summer. And, you know, it's not, I suppose, first world problems there. But, you know, that's, it just really goes to show who this guy is. He was born with a silver spoon. So how could he possibly know coming from the background that he came from? And I'm not blaming him for being, I mean, we're all born in our lot in life, right? But, The problem, inherent problem, is the money that he spends in the state and the way he approaches policy based off of his life experiences. And, you know, he ran my state like when he was governor, he ran it like a mob boss. He would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars against Republicans in primaries if they weren't in lockstep with him. Wow. And, you know, they— if you, if you weren't in lockstep with him and you wouldn't do his bidding, you didn't work in the state any longer. So that's, that's how he ran it. Uh, that's who he is. He's, he's a master spinster. He's a master liar. And, uh, you know, he's, he's, he's at it again. But I think, uh, you know, Wisconsin showed people that we, we are no longer going to be bought as citizens. Uh, you can't by-elections anymore. And, well, we'll see what happens. But, you know, I'm gonna go out and fight like hell and try to get our message out there to the people of Nebraska.

So, Dan, if you become the new junior senator from the state of Nebraska, would you form your own caucus or caucus with independents and then toggle between the Dems and Republicans based on the issue? Because I would love for the Senate to need a third chamber. That's actually a dream of mine.

Yeah, yeah, that's, you know, I'm certainly going to have to navigate those waters when I get there. And, you know, there's, there's nothing set forth in the, in the Constitution or the laws of the land that say you have to caucus. And people are like, oh, well, you won't get a committee assignment. Well, you know, I think that the rules state that you have to have at least 3 committee assignments as a senator. You know, here's, here's the deal, Andrew. You know, the big beautiful bill, call it whatever you want it, passed with a tie vote from, from J.D. Vance being the tiebreaker. If I was there, I would have been the tiebreaker. So people would have been, you know, coming and knocking on my door. And I could have made deals for Nebraska. And ultimately, the way that bill sits right now, it would not have passed. Uh, in, in, in one man's humble opinion, it wouldn't have passed. And, and unless I could have saw some, some different things on that bill that are gonna, again, try to uplift all people and not just a certain group of people. So, you know, I think there's, there's power in that. And, uh, you know, I look forward to definitely navigating those waters and, and seeing how I can operate, uh, within the, the walls of the Senate. And, you know, I'm excited. I'm excited to get in there and do it. And, you know, I guess ultimately, you'll just always know I have the people's best interest in mind at all times. And that's it, plain and simple.

Well, I would be thrilled for the country to find out alongside you how an independent could best fix the Senate the way you fix an air conditioner or car, uh, you know, having a mechanic in the U.S. Senate would be such a breath of fresh air for so many Americans. If people listening to this or watching this want to help you make it happen, it's, uh, osborneforsenate.com?

Yep, osborneforsenate.com. And, and, you know, I think truly what this campaign represents— and I hold no delusion that I'd be 1 out of 100, right? Uh, and it's going to make my microphone big, and I'm, I'm, I'm Not afraid to be a general disruptor either, but I think it's going to be a spark that lights the fire. People around the country will take notice. They'll be like, holy crap, did you see what Nebraska did? Right? And it's going to let everybody know that if you're a nurse or a teacher or a plumber or carpenter or small business owner or a farmer or rancher, whoever you are, the people that help build this country with their hands, you can now know. that you can run for higher office and win, and we can really start to get our government reflect its people.

What a vision, Dan. Uh, you came this close, like within a hair's breadth in '24. I think you can do it this time. I certainly urge everyone to get behind you. Let your friends in Nebraska know, send $10, $20, do what you can, and let's get Dan into the U.S. Senate. Would be so much fun. Uh, give me a lot of—

thank you,

uh, pride and happiness to, to to see you break the mold that way.

Absolutely. Let's do it.