The Psychology of Positive Habits | Jon Gordon

You are your habits. And so if a habit is not working for you, or you have a bad habit and it's holding you back, or it's, it's hurting your life, you can pick a positive habit. And as I said, that thank you walk, that one habit changed the course of my life.

How much of who you are today is shaped by the habits you've built, and how much is shaped by the wounds you never healed?

If I had to go very deep, what am I really working on? It's What wounds have I not fully healed that I think I've healed, but I probably haven't fully healed? So I think I'm, I'm doing great, but then something may surface and go, oh, I have not fully healed yet.

Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training, a high-performance psychologist. This week, Jon Gordon is back on the podcast. For good reason. John's a bestselling author of more than 30 books, 18 bestsellers, including his latest, The Power of Positive Habits. His writing, it lives right at the intersection of leadership, habits for personal growth, mindset, and self-reflection.

In your marriage, you're 2 imperfect people coming together and you got issues. And when something is triggering you about your wife or your spouse, It's usually you. You think it's your spouse, but it's usually you.

We also get really practical. We talk about gratitude, self-talk, leadership under stress, and how to build better mental habits.

Well, if you're anxious, you feel very disconnected from yourself, from others. I have found the more you actually do this and you make it a habit, it increases alertness and energy, helps you sleep better at night. This is the ultimate leadership principle right here.

With that, let's jump into this week's conversation. With Jon Gordon. Jon, this is like, it's a real treat to be able to sit in person with you and have this conversation. We've known each other for years.

Yeah, it's been a long time.

But we don't get to spend a lot of time with each other.

No, we don't.

Let's start with something pretty concrete. You've written 33 books. Holy moly. I don't know how you do it. And that's going to be part of this conversation. What you write about is really about lifting people up, supporting them, challenging them, giving them best practices to, in this case, your newest book, to build habits. I just want to start with, what do you hope people will get from this conversation?

This conversation, the book, my life, I just want to lift people up. I want to encourage them. I think I want to be encouraged in life, so I want to encourage others. I remember when I was down, I was miserable and negative. My wife was going to leave me. That's how bad it was. I lost my job during the dot-com crash. Didn't know how I was going to pay the bills. And I just remember struggling. And I remember saying, why am I here? What am I born to do? And why am I so miserable? And I realized, Mike, I was miserable because I wasn't living with purpose. I was really focused on myself instead of others. And right then and there, I said, I want to make my life about others. I want to encourage others because I was, I was pretty self-focused and I had become not a narcissist, but I had narcissistic tendencies. I think from the wounds I had dealt with in the past and the abandonment I had with my biological father leaving. That's a whole other story.

So, oh no, that is going to be part of this.

All of that helped, you know, make me want more at that time and want to do more and become more and, and just live a better life. So it really became a quest To get better myself, and that quest began when my wife said, "If you don't change, we're over." So I had to change if I wanted to stay married. It wasn't even like, "Hey, I want to get better." At first, I want to stay married, but then it was like, "Okay, I also want to be a better version of me." I also asked what I was born to do. Writing and speaking came to me in that moment. I'll never forget. So I want to be more purposeful, make a greater impact. I also now know I want to write and speak, but what am I going to write and speak about? I don't know. So I began researching all these ways I could be more positive, and this was during the emerging field of positive psychology, all the way back in, in 2001, 2002. And as I was researching these ideas, I found one that said you can't be stressed and thankful at the same time.

Yeah.

So I began practicing gratitude while taking a walk. I coined it a thank you walk. And while I was walking, I would just say what I was thankful for out loud. My neighbors thought I was crazy, but as I'm doing this—

Were you actually speaking out loud when you're walking? Not just internal dialogue?

No, I'm saying it out loud. I'm thankful that I can walk. I'm thankful that I can talk. I'm thankful for my kids, even though they're driving me nuts right now. I'm thankful for my life, even though it's not going well. I'm just thankful. I would just say what I was thankful for. Maybe 10 minutes, 15 minutes. But I noticed a shift, and my wife noticed a shift. And right then and there began a quest to get better myself that led to a mission to help others get better. Because as I was doing that, I began then sharing tips via e-newsletter, an e-newsletter, one of the first of its kind back in the day in 2002, using Constant Contact and sending this out to 5 subscribers: my mother, my brother, my teammates from college. I didn't even think they were reading it, but I was sending it to them. People started to share this, and it started getting out there. And that's what led me then to start writing books and start speaking. Now, I was writing these positive tips, which were habits that I was doing all the way back in 2002, 2003, 2004, all the way to writing The Energy Bus in 2006. But as I'm doing these habits over the years and sharing them, I'm seeing people change, seeing them elevate. Working with athletes, working with teams and organizations. Next thing you know, I'm like, wow, this is working. Wow, these guys are changing. They're being impacted by it. And a lot of these habits were mental habits, which I know you love, because thinking is a habit. That's why there are so many thinking habits and mental habits in the book. There's also physical habits, but mental habits. So this book is really like a culmination of years and years of doing this, and I felt like I was Coming back full circle to my beginning in writing The Power of Positive Habits. 93 habits that over the years I've collected and have been doing and sharing, and then new ones that I researched recently for this book. And the cool thing is, as I researched these new habits, I began doing them. And even in the last 6 months, I have elevated from a few of these new habits.

It is one of the kind of hidden gifts in the profession that we're in is that one of my mentors early in my graduate program said, Mike, I just want to be really clear to you is that whatever you need to explore and work on in your life is going to show up in your sessions with other people. I said, what do you mean? He said, you're going to see that thing as quickly as you can imagine in the chair across from you. And that is going to be one of the greatest gifts is you're going to feel a certain way about it. You're going to recognize yourself in it. And it will be an impetus for you to go to do that work. And he says, I encourage you, this is my mentor said, I encourage you to let people know that you are also working. And the thing that your client at that time is working on. And this, I said, really? You know, like, and he's like, oh my God, this old idea that one person has it together and the other person is a mess. He goes, I think it actually creates more harm. So what I'm talking about is self-disclosure. And for a long time, as a psychologist, the training is self-disclose, never self-disclose as a camp, self-disclose with minimal kind of time allocated. But whenever you're gonna do it, make sure that it serves a purpose. But the purpose for me, for a lot of it, is to be honest in the relationship.

Yeah.

'Cause I think that we're constantly sorting that out. Is the person across from us honest? Are we being honest? Because when it's dishonest, it is untrustworthy.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

So they also admire us for, you know, our strengths, but they really respect us and appreciate us for our weaknesses when we reveal them and how we overcame them. Yeah, that's right. We can overcome them, then they know they can too.

But what I'm saying in this case is like, I'll say, say somebody's working on something and I'm like, and I'll lean in and be like, I need that too. And they look like, really? I go, hey, let's figure this out together. And then we eventually get to something that we'll do, like a training something. And I do it alongside of them. We're holding each other accountable, which seems like you're not supposed to do that. But it's like this amazing kind of gift to both of us, you know, in that way.

But would you say because that creates connection and now you feel like there's a partnership where they're not in this alone, you're doing it together and growing together. There's also an authenticity and a vulnerability that paves the way for that connection. 100%. Yeah.

You know, Yeah, there's lots of reasons why, but self-disclosure, first and foremost, is really about connection. So another person doesn't feel lonely in their suffering.

Right. Because everyone thinks that they're the only mess.

Yeah, that's right.

And when they know that you're a mess too, they're like, oh, great. I'm not so bad. This is normal. Yeah.

And there's also parts where the clients are X number of feet, X number of miles ahead of me. in some things.

Yeah.

And there's times when I'm X number of feet or X number of miles ahead of them, and I come back the trail and pass them a flashlight or a torch to be able to kind of light the way. And for much of the time, I feel like we do it together. I'm holding the flashlight for a little bit, and then at some point they hold the flashlight, and then I'm like, where are you pointing that thing? Like, hold on, you gotta take care of both of us. And then, and eventually they take it fully on their own and they're like, thanks. Like, I'm good.

That's good. Yeah, that's why, you know, in this book I share a lot of stories of my own, like personal stories.

It's really personal.

Yeah, very personal. But also I did that because, again, I got to show my transformation, how these habits impacted me, and hopefully inspire you and encourage you to know that they're possible for you. But they're short stories, so you read them and then there's the habit and you're like, oh, okay, if he can do it, I could do it. I give people hope is what I like to say.

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I hope that they get better from it. I hope that they look within themselves and they get to know themselves better. I hope they can see how habits they choose will impact their life, that they don't have to be stuck where they are. They can actually Pick new habits to create a new them. You are your habits, and so if a habit is not working for you, or you have a bad habit and it's holding you back, or it's it's hurting your life, you can pick a positive habit. And as I said, that thank you walk, that one habit changed the course of my life. If someone listens to this and they get better from this, but I also want them to read the book. I'm not gonna lie. I do want them to read the book because I know this conversation is one thing, but reading the book. It's very personal. And as you read it, you're going to discover things within yourself. As you're reading it, you're going to be inspired, encouraged to take action. And then as you begin to take action, you're going to really see some, some positive change in your life and some transformation. So yeah, I do hope people listen to this and get better from this conversation, but I do want them to read the book knowing it will make them better. It's why I wrote it, to really help them grow exponentially.

What is one question that you're wrestling with in your life right now that if we're talking about people or the person listening right now to go inward a little bit, to do a bit of self-discovery for themselves so that they can be better in their life in whatever way that they kind of point that effort. What's a question you're working on right now in your life?

You know, if I had to really go very deep, What am I really working on? It's what wounds have I not fully healed that I think I've healed, but I probably haven't fully healed. So I think I'm doing great, but then something may surface and go, oh, I have not fully healed yet. I'll give you an example. My wife, my daughter, my son, we were in Italy. And they start binging on desserts and food, and this is what they do— sugar— and they just start binging. And they've been like this like my whole life, and it's very like frenetic, and they're so addicted. And I have a controlling nature when that happens, and so I want to stop them from doing it. So I'm like, hey, come on guys, and I start to literally try to play cop.

What are you afraid will happen for you?

Well, Let me tell you how this played out. And so I realized what I was doing, how uncomfortable I was making them, and how they were lying about what they were eating when I wasn't around. Like, no one wanted to tell me. So I realized how destructive that was being, how I was making them feel. And also with my daughter.

Because you were being critical, judgmental.

Just judgmental and critical, but not even critical, just like controlling. Yeah. And I realized that I was doing that to my daughter. Just controlling.

But hold on, see if you can go there for a minute. Is like, what, what are you trying to sort out? What are you afraid of that would happen to you if this behavior continues for them? Which is a wild way of thinking about it.

I realized the reason why I was doing it, because it's my wound of feeling powerless, of not having control.

Why would you flex your power on the, the food choices that they're choosing?

It's not even a, a wanting to. It's a feeling of that they are acting in a way that is detrimental to them because I've seen how this food and doing that has had detrimental effects on their health.

What about you?

And their life.

Your health, did you have food issues?

Oh, when I was, when I was, um, in my 40s, I had a lot of food allergies. But in my home growing up, I would say, yeah, I was, I was a chubby kid. And dealt with weight. My whole family did.

Did you get bullied for it?

No. No, I didn't get bullied for it. But I—

How'd you know you were chubby?

You're so good. You're good. Looked in the mirror. And so you just brought back a moment where someone called me Fat Magic on the basketball court because I was good, but I was chubby. And so there's probably some element in there for myself. So when that happens, I recognize there's no doubt that I'm acting out of a wound, and I don't want to be doing this anymore to them and making them feel that way. So I, I literally brought them together with me and I apologized, and I explained that this is definitely coming from a wound that I know I need to heal, and I need to heal it because it's not good for my marriage to try to tell my wife what to do to work out. And it's, it's like this, Mike. Did you work out today? Hey, why are you eating that? Like, you're gonna feel horrible if you eat that. Don't eat that. Hey, Jay, Jay, did you get your workout in today? Like, I'm calling my kids to make sure they got their workout in. I'm, I'm calling my wife to make sure she's not binging that day on desserts. Like, how uncomfortable is that? It's a miserable experience.

It's, it's hard to be around you because, you know—

I wouldn't want to be around me.

Yeah.

So, so, so the cool thing is though, and I have a circle that I mentor, I actually told them this story the other day and explained it to them when I was teaching about wounds and healing. So I'm not hiding from it at all. And I told my circle, I showed them, and I showed my family, this is something that I don't want to do and I'm not going to do. When I released it in that moment, I released it, I felt so free. And ever since, I have, I have not said a word. I've actually felt free with it. I've released it. Like, that's it. I'm done with this. I am not going to play that part in that role. anymore. That's a bad habit. I asked my daughter, what's my worst habit? Because one thing I wish I wrote in the book was to get rid of your worst habit should be a habit. I did not put that in there, but it should be a habit to get rid of your worst habit. So I called my daughter up yesterday. Jade, what is my worst habit? Because I don't really have a lot of bad habits. Like, I don't, I don't eat bad. She says my, my dessert is Greek yogurt. That's how, that's how disciplined I am. I don't gamble. I, I don't drink. I don't do porn. I don't do any of that. So what's my worst habit? She goes, you're controlling. I said, all right, I'll take that. You're right. Like, it is definitely my worst habit.

It's a, it's a kind of easy button for me to see that if you struggled with somebody early in your life choosing to not be around you, that would feel very out of control.

Yeah. And my father left when I was a year old, as you said. And then also—

How old were you?

A year. And then my—

And he left for what reason?

Why'd he leave?

Yeah.

He and my mom got divorced.

And, and he exited your life?

Exited my life. Uh, he was back and forth involved, like we'd see him on weekends, but it was a very tumultuous relationship with he and my mom. Also going over to his house, he got remarried, he had a family, so I never— so I never felt safe.

Yeah, can you feel like—

I felt powerless. And then my mom remarried my My stepfather, and I call my dad because he raised me since I was five, and I love my dad. He was great, but he had a family from a previous marriage, and his family would come over. So I never felt safe. I never felt like I had power, and I was the youngest. So I'm watching all this go on, and I don't feel like I have any control, and I have no power.

But you do with your kids.

But I do with my kids. With the gelato. Too much gelato. Stop eating the bread. Yeah. You know, but but but. Which is crazy, right? And I think it's good for people to hear because—

It's not when you understand that it's coming from a wound, it's coming from a place where you're trying to feel safe. And collapse with, you also know, there's very few people on the planet that would say that excess sugar is really a good choice. So you love them, you want them to be healthy, and this is a way that you've been disciplined to your own life with the choices you've made to feel in control. And then it just kind of found its way through some rigid kind of outwardly expression.

Exactly.

Which is like, no one asked you for that.

No. But then you see them do it and you see them self-sabotage. So then it does affect me because I got a wife who's unhappy. I've got kids who are unhappy, not feeling well, arguing in their relationships 'cause they're eating and it's actually whacking out their brain. They have such bad allergies, it messes with their mental functions when they eat certain foods. So you see how it plays out in their relationships. In their life, and you just don't want them to live that way. And then I am miserable because you're as happy as your happiest kid when you see them struggle. It's really hard to be happy when your kids are struggling. So you just want them to make better choices and do better. So then you feel like you have to control. But anytime we try to play God, we're going to be miserable because we were never meant to be God, and we can't control. So that letting go of it—I'm like—that's it. I am not doing this anymore. You guys are going to have to figure it out. I hope you make great decisions. But I'm not going to take this on anymore. I love you and I hope you do. And it's amazing, once you let it go, all of a sudden everyone starts to figure it out on their own, which is always a key indicator for you. Like, this was a wound and it was something you need to work on, because when something keeps happening and the pattern is there, that's always a sign that it's you, not them.

So I was— there was this thing that kept coming up in, in, um, here at Finding Mastery in the business, and I was having a hard time solving and getting through it. And it was a repeating thing that was taking place for us as teammates here at Finding Mastery. And my wife said, wait, hold on, Mike. I've heard this 6 times. She says, what's your part in it? I go, it's not me. She goes, okay. And I was like, wait, hold on. What do you mean? And she goes, well, what do you think your part is in this? And I go, oh, I think it's this. And it was me being too exacting for a standard, and that is now creating a bit too much tension. And then it, you know, so I am so grateful for people in my life that hold an honest mirror up.

Yeah.

And then that only really happens when they know themselves and they know that you are going to repair whatever rupture or repair whatever tensions come on the backside of a hard, honest, difficult conversation to have. Those are the ones that are in my roundtable. And so I'm really thoughtful about who I am fortunate enough to learn from and listen to. And it's the ones that hold up a mirror. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. I have spent my career studying the mind, how to develop it for high performance, how it can be great in high-stress conditions, and what helps it stay sharp over the long arc of life. And one of the things I've learned is to pay close attention when science starts pointing somewhere new. Creatine is one of those places right now. We've known for decades what it does for the body— strength, power, recovery. It's about well-studied as any supplement out there. But the work emerging on creatine in the brain is what has my attention. The brain runs on energy, the same currency a working muscle does, and creatine appears to support brain energy metabolism, helping working memory, easing mental fatigue under exactly the conditions so many of us operate in— sustained demand, stress, not enough sleep. For something that's been around this long, that's a genuinely interesting frontier. So if I'm going to take something daily, the quality has to be unquestionable. That's why I use Momentous. They searched the globe for the highest quality creatine, then they built their own specification around it. Signature Spec is what they call it. It's made in a pharmaceutical facility, 6 stages of testing, 4 independent agencies, and it's NSF certified for sport. When you take something every day, that level of quality compounds. Go to livemomentous.com/findingmastery and use the code findingmastery for up to 35% off your first order. That's livemomentous.com/findingmastery with the code findingmastery. Finding Mastery is brought to you by our flagship mindset training course, Finding Your Best. Anytime you feel the pull to reset, to zoom out, to refocus and ask, am I moving toward the person I want to become? It helps to remember this: lasting change comes from training, not resolutions, not short-term sprints, but deliberate practice of the skills that shape how we show up in work, in relationships, and in the moments of great intensity as well. That's what Finding Your Best is all about. It's a science-backed framework for training your mind. It's the same set of tools that we've taught to Olympic athletes, top executives, elite military teams, and artists at the peak of their craft. In this course, you'll learn the foundational psychological skills to be your very best, full stop. And the best part is you can start any time. Right now, we're running a limited time offer on Finding Your Best. Simply head to findingmastery.com/course and use the code RENEW100 to get $100 off your registration. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is a good one now to lean into. Spring and summer, they are powerful seasons of momentum. It's a great natural time to step into growth, to refocus, to recommit to who you want to become. And this discount will not be around for long. So go to findingmastery.com/course, code RENEW100. RENEW100 for $100 off today, because your future is not shaped by what you intend, it's shaped by what you train.

My kids have been my greatest teachers throughout our journey in terms of just looking at myself, realizing where I need to be a better leader, where my wounds are affecting me and holding me back. And also marriage is that as well. Like, in your marriage, you're 2 imperfect people coming together And you got issues. And when something is triggering you about your wife or your spouse, it's usually you. You think it's your spouse, but it's usually you. Like, here's another one. My wife will just leave all the stuff on the, on the sink and in the sink. She doesn't clean up. Me, I eat, I wash the dishes, I put it away. Like, that's what I do, but not my wife. And it just drives me nuts. Again, a lack of control. A lack of things being orderly. And so for years it just bothered me. I'd say something, and then finally I realized, oh, actually it's me. It's not her. It's like, this is me. Like, why does this bother me? It shouldn't, but it does. It's not her. So again, another trigger, another wound leading to healing. So to answer your question, I'm wondering what else is in there that I haven't dealt with that I need to. Do you You're—

you are a bright light for so many people. You have a mastermind that you've created. You've got a circle of people that you mentor on a monthly basis. You are a coach to many people. Yeah. How do you go formally do your work?

I do my work through when I attend other people's talks, when I've been to other people's masterminds and listening And learning.

I haven't gone through formal counseling in years, but you have done it, but not just in a while.

Yeah, oh yeah, in the past. I do a lot of self-discovery and prayer, to be honest.

Do you write, like journal in that way?

I don't really journal, but when I am writing, like the things I'm writing about, I'm usually writing to myself. I'm usually speaking to myself when I'm praying. I'm asking God to reveal to me where I need to grow, what I need to heal, and I'm also asking for healing. So as I walk and I practice gratitude and I pray on a daily basis, that's been a big part of my journey to, to allow God to show me. And God, I believe, loves us too much to allow us to live surface level and not deal with the wounds. I believe that when wounds come up Like this one did recently, it's actually a blessing it comes up because God will use circumstances, challenges, and adversity to reveal it so you can heal it.

You are so good with quips. Say it again.

He'll use adversity, challenges to reveal it so you can heal it. This was revealed, and it was uncomfortable and painful. It really was.

Which part is painful?

The part where you see what you're doing. The part where you see how you're affecting your family, the part where you see that they're trying to do their best to satisfy you and you're making them feel that uncomfortable, and they love you too much not to say anything, or they don't even want to hear you talk, so that's why they're not saying anything. And you know that this is your problem and your challenge, and it was painful to look at yourself and know you don't have it all together like you think. You do have these wounds. You do need healing on this journey. And it was a wonderful thing. I Told my wife, I said, "This is one of the greatest things. It's one of the hardest things, but this is one of the greatest things that has happened to me was was this experience while I'm going through it." And so there's a level of awareness I have now of of to be able to look look for those things and be open to them because I'm not scared of them. And as you said, even now, like what what am I thinking? What else do I need to uncover that needs to be uncovered? Because what you uncover. What you try to cover will eventually be uncovered.

And how— what is your process to go look at the things that are tender?

It's really looking at your patterns. I really believe it's looking at your patterns. It's looking at the things that keep coming up for you.

And again, how do you do that? What is your process?

My process is, is just life is my process. Relationships are my process.

So you're kind of always in the process of growing and evolving. So underneath the surface, you are working often to say, what is this saying to me? And is there something here that I can learn from and grow from? Oh, my body just heated up when we were talking about that. Like, I should probably pay attention. Where'd that come from?

Or even when I have a conversation with one of my team members, and I don't like to call them employees, but say team members, and I'm talking to them. And I said, you know what, John, you were a little short in that conversation. Like, why were you so short? You know, you're stressed, you got a lot going on, but you know, you got to be a better leader and make sure that you're you're leading in a more positive way. You write about this, you gotta you gotta live it. So I'm really self aware when I'm not living up to it and not matching what I write about and want to be because I always feel like I have to strive towards that, and I do have to walk the walk.

I'll ask this in a different way, but do you have a weekly daily mechanism with your teammates, employees that create the space for that? Or is this kind of randomly, haphazardly, you'll pull them aside and ask?

Yeah, it's not, it's not a daily weekly, but it is, hey guys, what can I do better? And where can I be better? And it's conversations a lot of times one-on-one, say with Angela on my team. What could I do better? Have you noticed that I've been working on X, Y, and Z? You know what's cool though? I will say that it's cool that a lot of my team members have said, wow, we can tell you're really working on on you and your leadership. Because I'm going to be honest, like, I wrote The Power of Positive Leadership, right? I did not have a team when I wrote that book. I was working with all these great leaders, and I wrote that book seeing how they led and then creating a pattern and framework for great leadership, which is now used by a lot of organizations. So watching that and seeing that, okay, that's what it looks like. So now Fast forward, I have a team and now I'm dealing with all this stuff. And you know how hard it is to lead a team. And I've been saying this in my talks lately, like leadership is hard. I'm often pulling out my book going, what did I write on page 95? Oh yeah, that's right. I have to stay positive. So now I'm, I'm seeing where there might be a gap between what I wrote about and how I need to lead better. So the cool thing is I told them, hey, I'm gonna really work on this. Because I'm on the road, I get back, I just gave talks, I'm exhausted, but now I have to deal with a million different things and fires to put out. If I was just running the company, it'd be easy. I'm running a company and speaking and coaching and training and teaching and answering emails and looking at Slack and doing everything else and figuring out marketing and making sure operations is being improved. It's, it's a lot all at once, and recognizing that I know that I could be stressed and act out of my need state instead of my, you know, more positive state. If you ever took the Berkman, there's who you are in your normal state, yeah, who you are in your need state, and who you are in your stress state. That's right. In my normal state, I'm a very happy-go-lucky person. I want to enjoy life. Like, that's me speaking. That's me Getting together with friends, that's me. You know, coaching, having fun, doing what I love, writing books, that's me. The the need state when you're not getting your needs met and you're stressed, the Berkman shows that I become very commanding and very controlling. And so so for me, it's recognizing how life and circumstances events could then cause as triggers. to affect who I am in that state. And so it's recognizing that and then going, okay, what's the healing mechanism for that? What's the next action, the next practice that's gonna make me better? How can I approach this differently to make sure that I am actually growing and not hurting my team?

When somebody is tired, yeah, discouraged, Anxious. What are the positive habits? What are the habits that you would want people to invest in to work their way through that?

Well, if you're anxious— you and I talked about this when we talked about the one truth— the root for the Greek word of anxious means to separate and divide. So when you're anxious, you actually feel separate and divided. You feel very disconnected from yourself, from others, and I would say, you know, spiritually. So I would want people to find moments of stillness. I would want them to take thank you walks and practice gratitude, because you can't be stressed and thankful at the same time. I would want them to get outside and get some exercise in the morning, get that blood flowing, get the dopamine and serotonin firing, get the sunlight on, on, on your eyes, which increases levels of cortisol, which increases alertness and energy, helps you sleep better at night.

Well done. Okay, I want to do this. I want to hear— okay. I wanna hit a handful of these chapter titles. I'm gonna give 'em to you at random. I'm checking your, the authenticity of your work here.

Okay.

Right? And quick one-liner about what does this mean and what does it have to make this thing happen?

Okay, okay, okay.

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Good. All right. My wound is coming out now. Your number— your favorite number is? 11.

Trust in Your Big Life Plan is the title of the chapter.

Yep.

What is that about? What's the habit?

Trust in Your Big Life Plan. There's gonna be adversity in your life and challenges, but there is a big plan that is meant for you in your life.

And what's a habit?

A habit for that is to actually see adversity and challenges as your partner in growth and part of that ultimate plan.

Okay, this is random. Number 18. Play your highlight reel.

Play your highlight reel. You'd love this.

This ought to be the easiest one.

This is visualization. This is actually seeing the great moments in your life. You're getting on stage, visualize yourself on stage when you had great speaking moments. Get on stage with that in mind to have more confidence.

How often do you, do you see a highlight reel? Do you do this training?

You can do this highlight reel every single day. How often do you do it? And you can also do it in your life as, as much as you want.

How often do you do it?

I would do it once a week. Once a week. Not as much as I should.

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, there's— listen, there's no critique.

Not as much as— there's no critique.

Okay, good. Number 22, double 11. All right. Connect before you correct.

This is the ultimate leadership principle right here. Connect before you correct. So, you know, if you are correcting before you're connecting, you're gonna get burnout instead of buy-in. You're gonna get disengagement instead of dedication, resentment instead of results. You want to make sure that you are truly Connecting with your team. They gotta know that you love 'em and care about them. And when you do, you earn the right to challenge and correct them.

I know you're really intentional, so let me start with number one. You chose this one for a reason. The title of the chapter is The Habit Before the Habit.

So The Habit Before the Habit. I love this one because, you know, any habit that you wanna do, you're gonna have friction to implement the habit. So to help make sure you implement it, the habit before the habit helps that. You wanna work out? In the morning, make sure you put out your clothes and your sneakers the night before. So when you get up, it's looking right at you. There they are. There's no, I have to go find it. No, there it is. You put it on, you're more likely to go work out. You wanna read at night before bed? Put your book on the bed so you see it. And then you'll see it, you'll read it hopefully because the friction is gone and you're more likely to do that habit.

Number 56, do one more.

Do one more. This, this came from George Boyardi. I wrote about in The Hard Hat. He died on the field in 2004, was hit in the chest with a ball and died. And amazing young man. Well, people were inspired by him, especially Rob Purnell, one of the greatest lacrosse players of all time. And he was inspired to do one more for George. So if it was 20, he would do 21 reps because George was number 21. So the idea is that, you know what, we could all do one more.

Number 69, make the pie bigger.

Make the pie bigger. You know, this is, this is you and I. You know, earlier before this podcast, we were talking about our businesses and we were talking about how we can both improve and grow and just sharing ideas. We weren't focused on our own agenda. We were making the pie bigger. Whenever there was an opportunity, don't focus on getting your piece of the pie, how much you can make or take. Just make the pie bigger so everyone wins more. And I, I love to do that. When I wrote The Coffee Bean with Damon West, you know, I gave him half of my advance and, and royalties of the book. And he said, John, you don't need me, you can just do this on your own. I knew we should do it together. And because we made the pie bigger, we're now impacting millions of people as a result of that one book, The Coffee Bean, because we did it together. Make the pie bigger.

And what's the habit to ready somebody To be able to see the world that way.

Right. The habit is every situation you're in, you're asking yourself, how can I make the pie bigger in this moment?

And, you know, that, that simple framing requires some diligence if you want to be good at it. And as corny as this sounds, if you want to get better at something, you probably need to write something down.

Yes.

And so, as corny as this sounds, if you want to get better at making the pie bigger, Wake up in the morning and you write it down. You think about it, and it could be just that sentence, which is my goal today or my intention is to make the pie bigger. And then check in at lunch, and then check in at the end of the day.

Did I make the pie bigger today?

Yeah, and you have to be honest, right? Did I make the pie bigger? Wait, I want to say yes because it's important to me right now. But how did I do that? Oh, in that conversation with John. Ba ba ba. So check, and at the end of the day. Maybe that's the only one, but I've given myself a chance for a couple more options.

And someone's probably thinking, yeah, but so-and-so is trying to get their piece of the pie and take part of mine. What do I do? I have found the more you actually do this and you make it a habit, you start to attract other people who want to make the pie bigger with you. But in any deal you go in, just— you're looking at the situation. One of my favorite habits too is to actually live with purpose and write down your purpose statement, what you're talking about. If you write your purpose statement down and you read it each day, that's a reminder for you to go out and live that purpose that you just wrote down. Reading it every day helps you live that purpose.

Yeah. I'll give a plug right now. It's like your purpose is one of the greatest things you can do exponentially to live a great life is to be really clear about it. I know you've got a methodology. We've got a methodology here. Wherever you go get it, do that work. It is meaningful work. All right, last one. 93, the final habit. Create an amazing funeral.

What do you think it is?

Well, I know what it is because I read your book. But the create the amazing funeral, the idea that you are going to create an experience where people can celebrate, where you are thinking about, for me, what I took away from it is cover some finances.

All right.

Yeah, but plan, plan, plan for, um, the burden to be lifted as best as you possibly can for the ones that are still living.

Yeah, and leave a legacy. And what is legacy but impact? So if you have an amazing funeral, if, if, if Michael Gervais, it's, it's your day and it's your time to go, I envision in my, my funeral, like, people are all there and they're celebrating because You lived because you made a difference in their life. They're celebrating your life, not celebrating that you died. They're celebrating your life. And because of that, it's an amazing funeral. Like you left a legacy, and all these people are there, and they're talking about what you said and what you did, and reading your book and your next one that you're going to write that's going to impact them. Always encouraging on that, and and they're being encouraged by you because you poured into them. So what's the habit of that? Well, if I know what I want to create an amazing funeral. Then that means every day I'm going to live intentionally to impact the people around me, my team, my family, people I meet on the street. I'm going to make time for them. I'm going to encourage them so that they will have great stories to tell, hopefully at the funeral.

You're amazing, John. Like, what— you are a breath of fresh air. You are creating net positive in the world. Um, people trust you for a reason. You are extraordinary at writing. I appreciate that. Yeah, you are a very good writer. The fact that you can crank 33 books, and how many are bestsellers?

19, and 5 children's books.

It's remarkable.

I didn't know I could write.

Yeah, you represent something that is just so giving to the world. Thank you for helping me in a meaningful way launch my book.

That was cool.

That was a real gift, man.

That was cool to see.

Yeah, so thank you for that.

I can't wait for the next one.

You always say that.

Yeah, I'm always jacking.

You were a big voice in my head to write the first one. All right, um, where can folks be part of your mastermind, or where can folks be part of your group and get coached by you, or take some courses? Read your— obviously read your books. Yeah, jongordon.com.

Yeah, jongordon.com. J-O-N-G-O-R-D-O-N.com. You'll find the books, you'll find information about me. My mastermind, my circle, is jongordancircle.com if you're interested in that. And then I'm on social media everywhere. The book is thepowerofpositivehabitsbook.com. That's power of positivehabitsbook.com. The cool thing about that is we have a cool thing there. When you get the book, we're giving you a free habits developer, which means you put in your top 3 habits from the book and then it gives you a 30-day plan to go implement those habits. Because, you know, people say, well, how do you make habits stick? Well, one, you pick habits that are sticky. I said I didn't write this book to teach you about the science of habits and to have— make habits stick. This is a book of Habits that actually do stick. And when you put them into practice, because they're simple, powerful, and practical, they're going to impact your life. So let's put them into practice, 30 days, and you'll see how they impact your life.

Well done. Well done, John.

Thanks, brother.

Appreciate you, brother.

I appreciate you.

Next time on Finding Mastery. Dementia is one of the greatest health challenges of our time. But what if much of our risk isn't fixed? Next week, Dr. Michael Gervais sits down with physician and neuroscientist Dr. Tommy Wood, whose research suggests that many of the factors influencing long-term brain health are Within our control than we've been led to believe. Together, they explore what dementia actually is, why brain decline isn't an inevitable part of aging, and the practical habits that may help protect your brain for decades to come. Join us Wednesday, August 26th at 9:00 AM Pacific, only on Finding Mastery. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community, and if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com/newsletter. Newsletter to sign up. The show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors, and we take our recommendations seriously, and the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product you hear on the show. If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode, you can find those deals at findingmastery.com/sponsors. And remember, no one does it alone. The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend, and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, One of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional. So seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.

Come on.