The Psychology Of Winning The Super Bowl | Seattle Seahawks Coach Mike Macdonald

Players know. Well, what do they know? Well, they know who's full of shit. They know who's a good coach. They know who the best players are. They know what the organization is like. They just know. So if you go around trying to fool them, like, shame on you. You have no idea.

Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. A high-performance psychologist named Michael Gervais.

Who head coach Mike McDonald and former head coach Pete Carroll brought in to work with the Seahawks. Famous for his work with Felix Baumgartner when he jumped out of space in the Stratos Project.

Olympic athletes depend on something more than just training and talent.

They have to stay mentally tough.

Today's guest is Mike McDonald, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks and the youngest head coach in modern NFL history to win a Super Bowl.

I'm not like coming to the table saying, "Hey, look, this is the Seahawk way of doing it. Go to page 43." It's like, "No, I'm kind of new to this thing too, and we're gonna apply our principles, but we're all growing through this thing together." We explore one of the core principles shaping his team, through not around. When the players felt that the coaches were in the fight with them and they'd say, hey look, these are the things that we need to do a better job of to prepare you guys to go play mentally, physically, tactically, all those things. You know, we started to feel that buy-in from the players and our process started to improve.

With that, let's jump into this week's conversation with my colleague, friend, and Super Bowl-winning head coach Mike McDonald. I'm great!

Oh yeah!

I am great! Coach— We, I have had the privilege to get to know you and the community probably doesn't know the way that we know each other, other than you're the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks. And I've been fortunate to work with you, you know, the last year. And so maybe just in your memory, like maybe bring the listener up to speed on how we met and what kind of, what started that.

Yeah, there's, it's funny, the things you don't know, you don't know. But having an idea of where we wanted to go from year 1 to year 2. And John Schneider and I had several conversations. And then from your relationship with him going back several years, we met up with you and Steve Houshka, and it just became really clear that you had a great, like a really cool perspective to something to offer that maybe I didn't know that I needed and kind of just hit it off. Like, it felt like from our first conversations, Not to blow smoke or anything, but like, it felt really trustworthy and we had a lot of productive conversations and then it just hit the ground running. I felt like we just really got off to a strong start and we've just kind of been powering through ever since.

Yeah, I didn't actually know that part of it, that you don't know what you don't know, which is like, actually was an asset for you. And so what I remember about our first conversation is like, oh, okay, well, he works really fast. Oh, he asks really thoughtful questions. Okay. Plus, plus, he's like demonstrating that he's a great learner. And come to find out, yes, on all of those, but one of your superpowers is that you really want to understand something and then put it into action.

Well, in our first conversation with John, I mean, I have a feeling you've asked this question before, but the, hey, if, you know, what percentage would you attribute your, you know, your team performance to like mental skills or just mental aptitude? And we always threw out like a pretty big number and you're like, well, if you actually believe that, well, we need to put some energy behind this.

Right, yeah.

And then the things that you were talking about, I was like, man, the vision, I think that very similar, I think Jon and I's initial conversations with Jody about like where we wanted to take the team, it had the same feeling of like, oh, our vision for where we want to take our football team and like kind of the thing, it felt like the things that, you could one, add to it, but also help us get there. And things I felt like you thought were important, like you felt that alignment. And so that, that was exciting.

Yeah, I think that like the idea that, and just hold on. And for clarity, John Schneider, the general manager of the Seattle Seahawks, Mike McDonald, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks, and Jody Allen, the owner. All right, so it's, you know what's cool is like, when you meet somebody and there's an alignment, that's what we're talking about. Is there was like a synergy and you were interviewing me, I was interviewing you. There was like, it was just honest. Like, can we vibe? Can we create something special together is what it felt like the conversation was. And it was cool. Obviously, I think we did.

Yeah, yeah.

How about that year?

It was a whirlwind, but it wasn't, It didn't, it just, it was just this combination of like, it was fast, but it didn't drag on. It was really exciting. I think we've had some conversations in the last couple days with Housh, but there's an energy behind it. And from my perspective, it was, these are the things that I kind of felt like in my heart deep down that maybe I had a hard time bringing out in an organized way and in a clear way. A tactful way to communicate to people and then to be coached and to be pushed and to get uncomfortable with some things. But ultimately all through the lens of trying to create the vision of who we wanted to become. So that was fun.

Yeah, I think for folks that are in the business world, most of the best practices is like they bring in a consultant or a firm or something to help establish the culture that they want to have. It's culture by committee. So there's 5 smart people on the executive team, and there's a couple consultants that come in and ask really good questions and kind of get to, like, first principles of how they want their culture to operate. But, like, let's say you and I are on that executive team and there's somebody coming in and you say, oh, I think it should be about honesty. And I go, ah, that's good, but what about, like, courage? Courage is honest. And you're like, yeah, yeah, that's good, courage. And then somebody else says, well, what about curiosity? You gotta be curious to be courage and to be honest. Like, why don't we go cur—

Yeah.

And then before you know it, they're all good words. It just kind of gets muddled by like, I don't know, a groupthink and like a desire to wanna be aligned, but no one really sees themselves in those first principles. The work that you did was, these first principles were in your heart. You went through a process to get 'em as clear as you possibly could. And then shared them enthusiastically in a very coherent way with the organization.

Well, one of the places where I felt like I needed to grow from year 1 to year 2 was just presentation skills, confidence in front of the group, taking more of an ownership behind the team. There was a lot of room for growth that I felt, but the thing that actually felt that helped me the most was I actually believed what I was saying and why. I believe the things the first year, a lot of the stuff that we talked about, that we landed on were what we talked about in year 1, but just having a better understanding about where that came from, how to put energy behind it, how to communicate it clear, that was the confidence I had coming back to the team of saying, oh, now I can really share this with you in a way where I feel like you're gonna understand and now we can, we can get some energy behind this thing.

Yeah, I think, you know the idea of success leaves clues? You just dropped a massive one. It's not the idea in and of itself that other organizations ought to adopt if they wanna be a high-performing organization. It's the idea that what you were saying, you were completely aligned with. That to get down into the granular level of the stories, the words, the principles that mattered most to you. And so you could walk freely into any environment and be about it.

Yeah.

That's like the thing that often gets missed in high-speed corporate environments that is honest here at the Seahawks. Great job being able to do that. That is not easy to do. And I think people would be surprised to hear you say, yeah, confidence was something that I wanted to work on.

Yeah.

You are the head coach of the Super Bowl winning team and you're like, yeah, confidence is like a skill.

Yeah.

That's really cool.

Well, that was something that we had a lot of conversations on of like, hey, well, what kind of, you want a confident football team. And that was something where I think you use the term self-efficacy that like I probably have more of naturally. And so having awareness of that, but then how do you train a team to communicate and to have confidence when you yourself, are also working on that, you know, that kind of doesn't align initially. So like that was something that's been on my mind about the type of team we want to have all the time and the feeling we want to have when we go play the game. And that, but that triggered a lot of our, that triggers a lot of our language and like how we say we want to do business every day because I do have that in mind, you know, that I, of how we want the team to act rather than taking on my natural disposition, you know? So it's been fun.

But people are feeding off of you because you hold so much space. Leaders hold a lot of space in organizations, and so people are feeding off you. They're watching you.

I've learned that.

They are watching you. They're watching what you say, what you don't say. More importantly, they are watching how you act, and they're watching everyone in a leadership position about how they act under stress. Are they similar enough under stress to be trustworthy? It's easy to be cool over a glass of wine or a cup of tea. It's easy, right? Amongst friends, it's fine. But then when there's real consequences and there's things not going right, are you still in there or have you been tricking me? Yeah. So maybe let me just take a moment for the viewer to explain self-efficacy. Efficacy means power. Self-efficacy is like, I feel like when I apply myself Like, I feel like I can make a difference. Like, I've got something behind the way that I work that can be impactful. That's what self-efficacy is. And then self-confidence is like, I think I can do that thing. I'm not totally sure, but I think I can go do that thing. You put those two together, you got something. And those are both trainable skills.

Yeah, which has been fun.

Yeah, it's been fun. All right, let's switch gears slightly and go to your origin story. It matters to everybody, their origin story, but yours is really clear.

Well, one thing that makes me a little unique to most coaches is like, I have no connection to football. I mean, my dad played like sprint football at West Point, but that pretty much ends there. So like, I have two older sisters who are, I'm on record, but like, they're my heroes. I looked up to 'em big time and grew up with them like kicking soccer balls at my face, you know, when I was a baby and slinging me around on, sleds in the snow when we lived in Boston. But just always looked up to him big time. Just matter of fact, like an hour ago, I just went on a walk and was talking to Maggie for a long time, getting caught up. And when we lived in Georgia, I grew up playing baseball and I didn't pick up football until organizationally, like officially until like middle school. I got started late. I was always a baseball player, played pickup games and stuff like that. But my dad would film, I'm young, but I'm not that young. My dad had like this giant camera, the old, like, I don't even know what they're called anymore. What are those things called?

VHS, beta tape.

It was like pre-beta tape, like full handheld camera that he'd film Christmas and stuff. But he would film my football games when I started in 8th grade. And so I just, it was always a cool thing that we got to do to go back and rewatch the tape. And he coached me, he still critiques me to this day, but like, he'll, coach me up and we watch it and I try to find, you know, I just naturally try to find like tendencies, what's going on and report back to my teammates and stuff like that. And so throughout high school, that was always interesting part of like the game to me was like the strategy behind it. And I jot down, like instead of having, you know, instead of having a doodle on my notepad, it would be just like football plays. You know, one time I actually, I thought I invented the like, the play like power, which is like the first play every team installs for like the history of football. I thought I invented it one time and brought it to my high school coach. I was like, "Have we ever thought about like pulling the guard? I think it would be better." And he's looking at me like, "Yeah, dummy, like I think we've thought about that." But so it's just, I had this natural interest into it and I was never like the greatest athlete. So like trying to find that like extra guess of like where the play was gonna go was always interesting.

How much of this was your connection with your dad because you had this unique moment to watch film? With my son, I'll say, hey, their coach films practices, games, and I'll say, do you wanna watch some of it? Nah, Dad, I'm good. Like, he has zero interest. I'm like, damn.

He could never get me to take extra batting practice, but like football, for some reason, I actually like enjoyed watching those tapes. Like, we'd go right home and watch it.

And how would he design those coaching sessions?

He was actually like, he was more complimentary, like supportive in football. Now that I've never really thought of it through this lens now, then like baseball was always like, ah, you know, why'd you take that pitch? It always felt like it was a, like I was always on defense, you know? But in football it felt like really supportive and you could feel like the pride of like me making a play or, you know, running for a few yards or whatever. And so that was a cool connection that we had.

Did he have more personal connection to baseball himself or to football?

Well, he played both, but he played football in college. He played football at West Point on their lightweight team.

So he's a little bit more gentle or tender or supportive in coaching football?

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe.

So you felt more invested, less defensive?

Less defensive for sure. And it might be because I took it up later and maybe he sensed something that, that's what I needed, where baseball, I always played it like super competitively. And in that area of the country, like baseball was king and like some of the top programs and top teams are out of that area. Like it was some high level, like I had a lot of friends that played high level baseball. I wasn't one of them, but I had friends that did it. And so anyways, when I started playing in high school, I ended up getting injured. I told people I retired in high school, but I ended up coaching my senior year. I had to be around the team. And so I'd film practice and I'd coach the linebackers and I just wanted to be around the game.

You said I had to, that's like you desperately needed to be a part of something or you had to 'cause it was part of the class?

No, I wanted to be a part. I felt like I was the captain of the team and I can't leave the boys out to dry. So you gotta, I want to be a part of it. And the strategy part of it component too was still, I could be a part of that as well. Um, that's where the itch started to happen.

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Yeah, that's right.

Well, let me go do this film stuff. Let me think about strategy. You're really what we would call psychologically agile. You look at the facts, you adjust accordingly to keep moving forward in a way that is, I don't know, optimized or desirable or interesting.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, so that's a core capability that you had even at a young age. Let me go back one more turn here. When your dad was coaching you, what stands out more than anything else? Something he said, something he didn't say was an indelible moment for you?

In football?

Mm-hmm, or life if you wanna take it there.

To my dad, there's like a right and a wrong way all the time. It's very important, like order is important. Things aren't as gray to him in really any situation. Like there's a right way to go about things, there's not a right way to go about things, right way to treat people, wrong way to treat people. Doesn't leave the biggest space for innovation and creativity, but it also, it shows importance of clarity in some of the situations I'm sure that we have in here. And that's probably how I, that's had an effect on me. Having known you, I know that you're saying that has an effect on me.

That does have an effect.

So I'm assuming that's the case. Yeah, that's good.

Okay, and what do you think that effect is? What is the upside downside?

Well, I really feel like it's really, it's imperative that we have clarity here. If I'm a player and you're not, and it's not incredibly clear to me, like what's the expectation on really just a day-to-day basis? Like I have a hard time, I would have a hard time operating the way that we expect you to operate on and off the field and to have success because it's like, well, do you want me to go here or you want me to go there?

Okay, so how do you show, what are the mechanisms you and the coaches here use to show somebody with great clarity what good is or what great is?

Well, I feel like we try to constantly reinforce it and it starts with our language about like how we wanna play the game. But there's just, it's just a constant reinforcement of how we wanna play, what makes a Seahawk. And then systematically with our coaches, it's, we put up, we take a lot of pride in like doing a lot of the thinking for our players and working through those, like these more complex, like football systems and whittling it down to, you know, a directive where a player can now go execute at a high level and it's gonna work for 'em. You know, that's, there's some magic behind that, you know, but if I didn't do my homework as a coach or I, and I don't really have a great way to explain it, I'm not coaching it in this kind of, this like, this like elegant simplicity behind like what we're asking you to do and the systems aren't really well-oiled out, well, it's kind of shame on us at that point. You know, like, I feel like we'd be doing our players a disservice.

I love that you said elegant simplicity. This is where I was gonna go. And my question was, walk through the agitating state to get to elegant simplicity. There's an agitation, a fog, there's like a haze, you know, and like really a prickly state to be able to work through to get to the elegance of anything.

Yeah.

So uniquely, can you just illuminate the way that you, you want something to be great, right? You are trying to figure out a complex scenario with a complex set of personalities and skill sets on a team, and you're trying to create something that is simple and elegant. So that's the desired outcome. How do you work through when it's hard and it's not clear and it doesn't just snap into place and somebody else goes, yeah, but?

I think we put a lot of focus on understanding, like, go a level deeper. So like, what are the mechanisms that make the task go? So like, if we're game planning for an offense, for instance, at a baseline, what's their operation like? Where is it rooted in? Can we get to the nuts and bolts of this thing? And then what's the technique that we're trying? Well, where does that come from? Can we kind of— kind of like Inception, can we go to like the next layer of like the dream state to kind of unlock, you know, some ideas about, well, maybe if we just kind of move that lever a little bit, maybe, well, that maybe what's the effect as we kind of work our way back up towards the problem. But you gotta be comfortable in that. Like you get—

What's so hard about that for you?

I enjoy that.

Yeah, I was gonna say, so I wanna get to the hard part. Like you like that, you're a systems thinker, you like to think first principles, you like to understand kind of the mechanics of things and tinkering and try to figure it out so that you can create something sweet.

Yeah, there's friction when we don't, like if someone we're working with doesn't think that way. To me, it's like, I see that as taking the easy way out sometimes, where that's not really like a Seahawk way of operating. We're like, well, why don't we just go, just tell them to do whatever? It's like, well, not only is that not probably the best way to do it, but it's also, you're not, helping our player the best? Like, are you doing everything you can to, I mean, we're here to serve the players. There's an incongruency there for like what our actual role is, and that creates friction sometimes, but that's good. We gotta work through that stuff.

And how do you do it when somebody, when a teammate looks like or feels like they're not pulling their weight or they're just not wanting to go explore something 'cause they're tired they got a lot on their plate and here you are thinking about this thing. And they're like, look, I got another 80 hours of work to do by tomorrow.

I don't, we haven't had a lot of experiences where I felt like someone just like is just lazy and they don't wanna do a good job or whatever. And that probably speaks to John and the folks that bring people into our organization who we've hired. The way we communicate with our people is, hey, if our inputs are right and our spirit is in the right place, our intentions are in the right place, well, we're working together. So we're gonna, like you say, we're gonna work this problem together and see if we can kind of come to a better way. And this happens a lot on offense where I'm not like an expert on offensive football, but I can understand systems and hear how we're coaching it you kind of look at it through a different lens. So there's a lot of times where we're having conversations, okay, well, what are we expecting from him here? And where's that rule coming from? Okay, that makes sense. Okay, that's cool. Okay, well, we're on the right page here, or it feels like it. Let's just, let's keep going on the right page down this path with the player and let's see if we get a different result. Maybe we're just, maybe we got some different results that we didn't like, but we like our process. Sometimes it says, hey, like our intention's in the right spot, but I just feel like we could make this simpler for the guy. Like, I'm not, from what we're seeing on tape is not decisive enough for like, for our style. I feel like it's not clear what we're asking him to do. Maybe let's rethink about what we wanna say here or how we're coaching it. You know, like that's the approach.

You've got a first principle called through, not around. And it's one of the core tenets of your cultural, model. Can you illuminate through a story or something that is some, a moment in time that you remember, maybe it was this season, that it was a through, not around moment?

Yeah, through, not around is how we want, it's like, look, we're gonna earn what we achieve. We're not gonna create excuses. We're gonna communicate in a way where it's very matter of fact when we're like solving problems. So it's like, I'm taking the way I, I'm not even thinking about how I feel in this moment. Like, all we're doing is just working the problem together so it's better for us. The personal thing is just kind of out of it. Systematically too, it's, hey, we wanna be a violent team and a physical team. So it's got its, roots all through our program. But probably the biggest part, biggest form of adversity I've had in the NFL is when I became a coordinator in Baltimore. And, you know, and again, you're trying your best about building a team. And, you know, we focused a lot on scheme that year, trying to get our system put in and making sure we had all the calls. And we started out, playing pretty decent defense. And so we got to the second week of the year and we played the Dolphins and they were rolling and we played well, like the first 3 quarters and we had like a multiple score lead. I think we were up like 3 or 4 touchdowns. And then it was just bombs in the fourth quarter. Like they had got, I mean, if you let Tyreek Hill wide open on a 9-ball, nobody within 30 yards of the guy, like shame on the coach. Like that is, that's a reflection of us. And I think the feeling that I had from our team in that moment.

Did you lose this game?

We ended up losing the game.

By 3 touchdowns?

We were up 3 touchdowns, I think, in the 4th quarter.

It's really hard to come back in the NFL from 3 touchdowns.

Yeah, yeah.

It can happen.

That's where, like, in the Super Bowl, they're like, well, why weren't, you know, didn't it feel great that you had the game locked up in the 4th? I'm like, bull crap. There's, you know, like, I've lived that, you know, we're gonna play through the echo of the last whistle until this thing's over with. But, so it's a great lesson.

And that intensity, the echo of the last whistle, you earned that commitment through being burned in the past from going through a—

Well, I think that the moral and the other part of the story was the feeling I had of our team, we lacked confidence. The feeling that I want for our team here in Seattle wasn't mirrored from our unit at Baltimore at that point in the year. And so instead of pointing fingers, it just, it felt like, Man, if we came in here and we start playing the blame game, not only is that not the right thing to do, but I don't think it isn't the right thing to do, like, tactically, because I think I'm really the root here. Like, I'm kind of the common denominator.

In Baltimore.

In Baltimore. So did people square up with you and say, "Hey, listen..." No, I felt like it was me, and then, as a reflection of me, like, how we did business a little bit on defense, Didn't feel true to like how we really wanted to be. And so it didn't feel real at that point. So I said, "Well, hey, we gotta square up with this thing and go through this problem together." And I think one thing that happened was, is when the players felt that the coaches were in the fight with them and they said, "Hey, look, these are the things that we need to do a better job of to prepare you guys to go play mentally, physically, tactically," all those things, we felt, you know, we started to feel that buy-in from the players and our process started to improve. And we didn't get it fixed overnight, but like you did feel like we started to make a move. Ultimately, we got Roquan that year, we ended up playing great defense, but for a minute there, it was hairy. But if we didn't have that mentality, I don't know if we would've seen those marginal gains kind of on the rebound there.

It's easy to say through, not around when you hold all of the power, when you're the boss. And like, we're gonna go through it together. And when somebody else is like, I don't know, they made a mistake or they made a weird call or what, and they're feeling vulnerable in that situation, how do you demonstrate the required unity that you're in it with them? Do you have any memory of times when people have brought it straight to you and they've said, okay, through, not around?

Yeah.

Coach, can we sit down?

Yeah. There's been some since, you have to have those quite a bit in my role here. And I actually, I'll tell myself, like if it's a conversation that I don't wanna have before I'll say like, hey dude, I'll tell myself, hey, turn it around. You know, like you gotta put your money where your mouth is on this. But I also feel like it's the spirit in which you wanna have those conversations. So it's not like you're just coming at someone with like a blunt instrument and just bang over the head. Boom, it's like there's a spirit behind what we're trying to, it's through the lens of like what's best for us, what's best for them. That makes it, takes the edge off a little bit.

You did something, you set the scene with you and me right away is that when we're going through your model and you're like, okay, there's something here through, not around, like this really matters to me that we're gonna have honest conversations, we're gonna work the problem, we're gonna go through things. And then you pause and you said, And that means me too. Like sometimes people gotta come straight at me and say, listen, I need a through, not around conversation.

Yeah.

And at that moment I was like, oh, he wants to be coached too. He knows that he's part of the solution and part of the problem. And like, so you do something, even that little gesture you did when we first started to know each other, you do something to let people know that this isn't through, not around just for you. That is for all of us.

Well, I'm glad that that comes across that way. I think it's one of those things where if that's really what you want it to be about, and you, like what you said earlier in the conversation, like if you demonstrate that every day about how you wanna do business, that's probably where it's gonna actually happen. Like you said, people are watching, the players are watching, our coaches, our staff are watching. I've fallen short on this, plenty of times, but if I think if they feel that that's genuinely how you want to operate, that's where you start to build that trust when it comes down to having those things.

Yeah, 100%. Cool. All right, let's go back to Giorgio. We're not done yet. So we've talked about Dad, we've talked about Maggie. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Sunlighten. I'm really excited about a new partner of ours. Something that I've come back to again and again is When I invest in recovery with the same intention that I bring to my work, everything gets better. My energy, my focus, my ability to show up fully for the people that I'm with and the work that I care about. That's why I am so bought in on the Sunlighten M-Pulse Intelligent Sauna. I was first introduced to their team a few months ago and was so impressed by what they've created. This is one of the most advanced infrared saunas that they've built in over 25 years of pioneering this technology. That's right, they've been at this game for 25 years. I had one installed in my home a few months ago and it's made a real difference. I feel more refreshed, more grounded, more relaxed, and it's become a consistent part of how I recover, how I reset every day. I'm using it to support muscle recovery for improved oxygen delivery and for nervous system recovery. And what I love most, I don't have to leave my home. They're offering the Finding Mastery community up to $2,100 off. Simply head to sunlighten.com and use the code mastery for this great discount. Again, That's sunlighten.com and use the code mastery for up to $2,100 off. Finding Mastery is brought to you by our flagship mindset training course, Finding Your Best. Anytime you feel the pull to reset, to zoom out, to refocus and ask, am I moving toward the person I want to become? It helps to remember this: lasting change comes from training, not resolutions, not short-term sprints, but deliberate practice of the skills that shape how we show up and work, in relationships, and in the moments of great intensity as well. That's what Finding Your Best is all about. It's a science-backed framework for training your mind. It's the same set of tools that we've taught to Olympic athletes, top executives, elite military teams, and artists at the peak of their craft. In this course, you'll learn the foundational psychological skills to be your very best. Full stop. And the best part is you can start anytime. Right now we're running a limited time offer on Finding Your Best. simply head to findingmastery.com/course and use the code RENEW100 to get $100 off your registration. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is a good one now to lean into. Spring and summer, they are powerful seasons of momentum. It's a great natural time to step into growth, to refocus, to recommit to who you want to become. And this discount will not be around for long. So go to findingmastery.com/course, code RENEW100. RENEW100 for $100 off today because your future is not shaped by what you intend, it's shaped by what you train. Keep going.

Well, when I retired, that was my senior year of high school. So time to go to college. I ended up deciding to go to the University of Georgia. I wanted to play Ivy League baseball for Harvard. This is another through not around, there you go. So like, Wanted to play Ivy League baseball over at Harvard. I think we were actually talking about this today. And life comes at you fast. Hey, hey buddy, you're not smart enough or athletic enough to play for these guys. And your SAT scores back that up and your 40 time backs it up as well. So you're not going to Harvard.

So— Was this a big dream, big ambition?

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like you're kidding yourself.

Could you put your chips on the line, so to speak? Like you made it, you declared this is, —your goal?

I think I played it too safe. That was a bummer.

Yeah.

I wouldn't say it's a regret 'cause life happens for a reason, but that's something that I've given myself a tough time with over the years. Like, you didn't really go for it. You didn't put it on the line, put it out there, do the daily things that you need to be able to do. Do I think I could have played baseball there? Yeah, yeah, I think I had it in my body to get that done and just didn't do it. Just didn't really go for it hard enough.

How come?

Probably fear of failure, honestly, yeah.

Open that up a little bit. What were you really afraid of? What does failure mean in that scenario?

Well, at that part of my life, I hadn't had to work. I didn't really know what hard work, I needed to learn what the hard work was. So fast forward to working at Cedar Shoals High School when I was an undergrad, becoming a GA and a student assistant and working the hours that it takes and getting your butt kicked a little bit, just not getting, messing up an install or it's big high-level football at University of Georgia. When you mess up, little pressure cooker over time. Like you feel that as a GA and as a young coach. But the work was there. Like that's when I really understood like what hard work meant. And again, another 3rd round, like that's a real thing.

If you strained, if you worked really hard, if you applied yourself and gave it everything that you had, what was at risk?

Well, what I learned was that freed you up.

What freed you up?

It freed you up to go for it.

Yeah, but what you're saying is like, you didn't really go for baseball for Harvard.

Right.

You said it, you tried a little bit. It was gonna be a nice thing, but you didn't really go for it. So I'm taking the opposite side. Like if you would've really gone for it, put it all there, put the chips on the line, so to speak, what was that risk? You said fear of failure, but I'm trying to understand like what, What were you really afraid of?

I think I had a, I think it was important for me to be viewed a certain way in terms of like a stature, you know? So kind of, it would've been a knock on like my own identity that I saw myself. So it's sobering to see like, oh, you're like, not only did you not go for it, but your scores don't back it. Like you don't even, you lack the criteria too. Like it's not like you're, It's not like you were wronged.

But you had a story. Well, I didn't really go for it. So of course I wasn't, if I would've applied myself, I could've.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, what you're describing, I hope the viewer really can hear this and watch this because this is what I believe is one of the greatest constrictors for a person's potential because I have so much, regard and respect for the people who put it on the line. That vulnerability to really go for something is so special because it could fall apart. And then you are left knowing that you did not have what it took to be able to meet the demands of something or the opportunity.

What I've learned is like, I don't really know what it means to not have what it takes. Like, I don't think that's really a thing. Because the process is gonna like, unless there's like one finite thing you work up to, like just one thing, maybe it's like a gold medal, but like still, I mean, it's still like winning a Super Bowl, for example. Like so much has to happen right that is really out of your control if you really wanna be honest to win a Super Bowl. But we put everything into it and like for, and a lot of the other teams did too, And we've had this conversation, but if we fell short, I'm pretty confident that I'd feel the same way about what we did and what our football team became.

Yeah, I would too.

So it's not like we wouldn't have had what it takes. You know what I mean?

This is you knowing though, the value from the sting of not getting into Harvard. And the honest story is that I didn't really apply myself.

Yeah.

'Cause I wanted to save my— my identity, a sense of self and the way people saw me. The reason I know this so well, Mike, is this was my story.

Yeah.

And I think this is more people's story than you and I know. This is my story. This is what happened to me for most of my life until I faced it. I was like, what am I doing?

Yeah.

Like, why am I playing this game? Like, what am I afraid of? I'm afraid of looking, stupid. I'm afraid of looking like I don't have what it takes. But really, if you honestly work a process, you deeply invest in the inputs, you start to quickly learn that, like, there's a lot that has to fall into place to get these extraordinary outputs, like a Super Bowl.

Yeah, it's liberating.

Which part is liberating? Honest investment on inputs?

Yeah, like even pursuing coaching. I was like, I didn't, think I was gonna be a head coach in the NFL.

You didn't have that as a goal?

No, but I just loved coaching and I did wanna be on a certain trajectory. I did wanna coach big-time football, but I didn't really know what that looked— there's a whole world out there I just wasn't really exposed to. I thought I knew what I wanted, I just didn't really, but that wasn't part of my daily inputs of like, oh, what if I— I wasn't worried about that. I was actually working, like to your point, I was working like an honest process behind it. And then I just, that let me like let go of who I was, where I was gonna become a coach or— No, you're incredibly blessed. Like that the Ravens call you one day and they want to interview you. Like, you know, that doesn't happen to everybody, but would that have happened if I didn't work the way that I did for the 4 years or 5 years that I was coaching private? You know, probably not, you know, so. Football was kind of like that. Like, I felt like I put my whole, I felt like I got the best version of myself with football. And I'm okay with like how my career ended in football because—

Playing as a player.

Yeah, 'cause I knew that, like, I knew how hard I worked as a football player. Like, that's when I learned, you know, different than baseball.

And the relationship that your dad created that space to keep pushing, exploring, and figuring out and unlocking, as opposed to like you having to defend yourself and the agitation to get coached.

Yep. That's something.

Yeah.

It's wild how it works out.

Isn't that something? Yeah. Do you, I don't know if you relate to this or not, but like how can you speak to folks that might wrestle with imposter syndrome? And I'll paint a scenario. I don't know if you ever worked through this yourself, but like I never played the game at a high level, you know, like, and here I am, if they only knew, like I could barely catch a ball on a 20-yard out route. Like, you kidding me? Or whatever. What position did you play?

It doesn't matter, but linebacker and running back, yeah.

Yeah, that's what I figured. You know, like, so like, do you, was that ever a thing?

Oh yeah.

It was.

I still feel that. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So how do you work it?

Another one of the conversations we had last year, I just, I don't know if it's completely imposters, but we had that kind of going into the Super Bowl of, I think our conversation was something along the lines of like, Hey, we grew up like watching these like epic documentaries at football. It's like, this was a Super Bowl when you grew up and they got the commercials and it's the party. And it's like, it's this thing on a pedestal that like giants are part of, the Bill Cowards of the world and Jimmy Johnsons and like Troy, Brett Favre, like Brett Favre running around with his helmet off. Like that's some like epic, epic stuff. Now there's movie, there's all these, And now here we are, how are we, are we sure we're part of that crew? We're a bit lucky here. Yeah, like what, do we really deserve to be part of this history, this kind of like class of what, 'cause that's the way I saw it when I was growing up, just as a kid and being a fan of the game.

I wanna pause that because this is really important is that you had a, I don't call it a 9-year-old or 10-year-old model of the Super Bowl. Yeah. And then, and it was good model is what a 9 or 10-year-old would look at and be like, oh, look at these guys bigger than life. And the, you know, they're, these are the heroes or these are like, these are absolute legends. And that's a good model for a 9 or 10-year-old, the unsophisticated 9 or 10-year-old. And then fast forward, you know, 20, 30 years and then you're in the same kind of space. You're like, Oh, but I'm still operating from the old model. And you also know the adult truth, which is like you poured everything into an honest process.

Yeah, that's like the medicine. It was like, oh, what are you guys actually? What have you done? What have you proven over the course of our process or our year, year and a half or 2 years, however far you wanna go back? And there's a lot of great evidence there. And so I had to take myself out of that. I had to look at it from a different angle. Like, oh, if I'm just third-party observer coming from this different, wider lens, like that's, you guys, yeah, you guys, you should be here. And you should, not because it was, Just like I've told our team from when I felt like we got to that point, I was like, we should get to the point where we should expect to win every game we play if we play our best football, because we've earned that right through who we are and what we've done and all that. And so going back to that thought process was really helpful going into the last few days before the game.

People ask me all the time, they're like, I don't wanna say it out loud, but I'm kind of struggling or I have struggled with imposter syndrome. And I stop right away and I kind of grin. I'm like, welcome to the club.

Yeah.

If you're trying to do something special, you don't know if you have what it takes. You also know that you got some breaks somewhere in there. And you can't quite sort out why, but you do need to honor all of that. And at the same time, pause and be like, wait, hold on. What are those things that I've honestly been investing in that I know is real? And am I okay with however this thing goes? I want it so bad, but am I okay no matter how this thing goes? And am I gonna keep investing in an honest way on the inputs, the things I can control?

I think it's good for you.

You do, yeah. It means you're out on the edge.

You're on the edge. You're also like, there's a humility to it. Like you realize it's not, there's other forces at play. Keeps you on the edge in terms of, am I, what the sense of urgency and behind our process, am I really thorough in what we should be doing to get prepared? Now, I think on the other hand, you need to be able to have those conversations yourself to get you ready to go execute and go perform. But I've always said, if you catch me walking around our building like, "Haha, we got this, we're gonna whip ass this week," just punch me in the face because that's not how I operate. We will never say that. As much as we're the points, all that stuff, that's not even in our stratosphere of how we think.

What's it like to pick a handful of folks that you're like, okay, this athlete or these athletes, they challenge me, they're challenging. And I'm not saying it's negative, but they're holding a standard. They challenge me in whatever ways. And maybe a couple athletes that you're like, and tell it through the lens of some stories where you're like, oh my God, like this, I've learned so much. And it could be the same athlete.

Yeah, a few guys come to mind. I mean, Coop on offense, Cooper Kupp, he, one, just like the resume that he's coming from, but again, his process, the level of like, we say shocking here, but like the level of detail that he has of understanding of like, how he operates, the details of not only his job, but how the whole offense works together. To me, it's inspiring. Like, I'm not the one drawing up our offensive scheme, nor am I the one like coaching the X's and O's behind it. But to be on that, you really respect like, that is what we owe our players all the time.

He's a professional sportsman.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

And the way he's with LA for a lot of years and had a lot of success. And so he's seen a way of doing things for a while that has been really effective. And he has his own thoughts on the process and what works and what doesn't. And he's not afraid to have those conversations with you, which I really, I appreciate that. You know, I'm talking about as a team, like as from the head coaching perspective, process, travel, you know, scheduling, reps in practice, tempo. I mean, all those different things. He has a different perspective on it coming from a completely different worldview from where I came from. And again, another through, not around thing. He's not afraid to bring it up. And I appreciate that. That's a lot of fun.

How much do you think that has to do with the way you say, "Hey, bring it to me." And I mean that.

Yeah, I think—

And how much is it like he's gonna do it no matter what?

Well, with Coop, I'd probably do it no matter what. I mean, he talked to Clint a good bit last year. He said what? He talked to Clint, our coordinator, a good bit last year. You know, he's got a lot of thoughts on it, but as he should, you know, I mean, again, he's earned, like, he's earned that from how he operates and his track record. And I've asked for it, you know, I've asked for it. I think it doesn't take a lot of conversations from, I believe at least, like the players are gonna, they know and they communicate. So if you're gonna bring something up and then shoot a guy down once he comes to you like that, the word's gonna get around quickly. I think one of the strengths that we have here is I'm not like coming to the table saying, hey, look, this is the Seahawk way of doing it. This is go to page 43, you'll figure out what you do on July 3rd at 3 o'clock. This is the formula. It's like, no, I'm kind of new to this thing too. And we're gonna apply our principles, but like, but we're all growing through this thing together. And so, we are scrimmaging ideas out and we are kind of in search for like the best way of doing things for us. And turns out like it's not just me making those decisions all the time. You know, ultimately I'm responsible for what shows up, but the ideas can come from anywhere.

Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn. Earlier I mentioned LinkedIn Hiring Pro, and I wanna come back to something a little more personal. We talk a lot about the people who make extraordinary things possible,, and I wanna take a moment to acknowledge some of ours. Janelle, Taylor, Alex, Emma, and our newest teammate Chelsea. Every single one of them came to us from LinkedIn, and every single one of them has raised the bar of how we operate here at Finding Mastery. Our relationship with LinkedIn, it also runs a lot deeper than just using their tools. We also work with their teams on the corporate side, helping them build the kind of high-performance culture where great people want to stay, they want to grow. I've been building businesses for over 2 decades now, and I'll tell you, the right team, that matters so much. It's the difference between grinding and flowing. So this partnership I believe in from the inside out. When you hire through a platform like LinkedIn Hiring Pro that surfaces people who are genuinely aligned with what you're building, you get a different quality of candidate, not just in skills, but in fit and values, the kind of energy someone brings to a team. So— Dave Erickson. If you're thinking about your next hire, I wanna strongly encourage you to be intentional about where you look. The right person is out there and LinkedIn Hiring Pro helps you find them faster with a lot more confidence. Post your job for free at linkedin.com/mastery. Terms and conditions apply. Again, that's linkedin.com/mastery. Finding Mastery is brought to you by AG1. Summer is right around the corner at, least for those of us in the Northern Hemisphere. You can just feel it though. Days are longer, pace picks up, and there's this sense of momentum that comes with the season. For me, that also means more travel. It's more early mornings, more late nights, and it's just really a schedule that isn't consistent as I'd like it to be. That's exactly when having a simple, reliable daily foundation, it matters. AG1 has been that foundation for me for over a decade now. One scoop in a glass of cold water in the morning, and I know I'm supporting my gut health, full stop, filling the nutrient gaps that are hard to cover through food alone. And what ends up happening is I'm giving my body what it needs to keep showing up, and that really matters to me. What I love about AG1 is that it doesn't ask a lot of me. It's one habit, one scoop, and it travels easily. The AG1 travel packs are something I genuinely rely on. Mm-hmm. This time of the year. I throw a few in my bag before a trip and the routine stays intact wherever I am. If you haven't tried AG1 yet, or you've been planning to think about getting back into it, now's a great time to start. Visit drinkag1.com/findingmastery to get an AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 free in your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription. It's a $72 value. Again, that's drinkag1.com/findingmastery. /findingmastery. When you've got tension with an athlete, and let's say that you've been coaching hard on something and you've been working it, and let's say it's just game day for an example, and they make the same mistake that you've been working on.

Yeah.

And it's costly, let's say. What do you do to erode trust and what do you do that builds trust?

I'm not perfect in this area.

That's right. When you're at your worst, when you're at your best.

Yeah. At our worst, it's a knee-jerk reaction. At our best, we're playing the long game.

You said we, not me.

Yeah, well, me too.

Yeah.

You know.

And is that something, how do you prime yourself to not be reactive in a high-stress environment when there's a costly mistake, when something that somebody has been working on they screwed it up.

Well, I feel like I need to be in my pocket. Sometimes I feel like that'll get displaced to the player. That happens. I can think of times where that's happened where, yeah, I'm displacing my frustration with myself to somebody else. So it's like, well, I need to handle my business first if I'm gonna, So I can handle that. Like my job on game day is to lead the team and to handle the game and the situations. And it's not to have emotional reactions to things that happen on the field. So if I'm not in the right headspace or in the right preparation, then that's where I feel like I'm most vulnerable to those decisions. But if I'm on my stuff the way I should be, you're kind of like in, you're in it with him at that point. You just, you gotta move and shake and adjust. And we can deal with like those, some of those more drastic decisions at the right time. But normally it's not that right then is not the right time to deal with those things.

What do you think the athlete needs after a mistake that was obviously his fault?

Yeah.

What do you think an athlete needs in that moment?

Support. You know, now, like, there's different ways of doing it, but like, I'm just, it's about moving on to the next, to the next thing. You know, like what's important now is we go to the next play. We're, you know, we say we're a moment-by-moment team going and trying to win another moment, you know, going and trying to win another play. How you get that done is probably unique to the relationship you have with the player. What works best with them. Maybe sometimes it's not even me or a coach, sometimes it's another teammate, just different ways to communicate. But how we do it together is really important.

And you just gave the answers away to like another clue of your success is that it's the relationship. If you have an honest relationship or you've built the relationship, you'll have a better chance at supporting them because maybe that support is like, hey, You know what you need to do.

Right.

Maybe that's supportive, right? Maybe another way to support is like, all right, I got you. We'll figure this thing out. Like, keep balling. There's good in you. You know, like there's more in you or something like that.

If I'm doing it right and the player has had a hard time doing that thing, for me to continually put him in that situation is on me. So a lot of times you feel that responsibility, like, ah, shoot, I shouldn't have done that. Like, I knew he had a hard time with that. It's not his fault. He's shown that he hasn't been able to do that. Whose fault is that?

Right.

You asked him to do something he can't do. You're gonna ask me, you're gonna ask Mike McDonald to go dunk. I can't dunk, shame on you. It's not my fault I can't dunk. So that's how I look at it. And then if you've gotten to the point where you're gonna ask them to do something in a game and they don't do it and they've shown the ability to do it and the intent's in the right place and the inputs are in the right place, Man, is that like, it's so smooth. It's really just a non-issue. It's just a non-issue. It's a bummer, but it really should be a non-issue. Not always that way, but that's the way you want it.

You've got Sam Darnold, who came into the Seattle Seahawks with like a narrative about him. You got a young coach that was a bit of like, the community was not sure what they were gonna get. How do you navigate that with one of the star players, that relationship, that kind of narrative around both of you guys? You address it, do you talk about it? Like, how do you work that relationship?

We never talked about it.

You didn't?

No, especially from a defensive perspective. Like, Sam needs to get coached. He needs to get coached hard, as does the rest of the team. But like, I'm not the defensive expert. I'm not the quarterback footwork expert. That's not my area. Now, if Sam was like tripping about not working in practice, whatever, which would never happen, like to me, that's—

Not Sam.

You know, it's like, that's an issue, but that's a non-issue. My thing for Sam is he needs someone in his corner. You know, he needs from the head coach,— And it's not like I'm just making up support for him. It's like, okay, well, let me see how this guy operates. Well, it's pretty cool. Like, his teammates respect the heck out of him. He's got a great way of, of, um, like, being a competitor and having an edge to him and being real. But like, it's just a great— he's got a great, like, balance where he can kind of bob and weave through those, like, modes. It was just like, well, what does he need? You know, let's, let's give him what he needs to for the best, as best as we know, let's give him what he needs and let's just, let's go from there. But if you see all the things you like seeing on a daily basis and then, like a game, like the, we make such a big deal of the Rams game, but like, a game doesn't go your way, well, I just saw all the inputs that I liked and I liked all the inputs. And so who am I? I'm not gonna, can't switch up now. This is, we're kind of all in here together. I've signed off on what we've been doing for the last X amount of days, weeks, months. We're in the fight together at this point. So that's probably the way I looked at it. But honestly, try not to make it more than it is.

For folks that like love the NFL and they might know some of the backstory of players or histories of folks, but their most intimate connection is on Sunday when they watch. What are some of the things that folks would be surprised to know or would not have, that surprised you when you first got into the NFL about leadership, about locker room rules, about like, what are some things that are interesting to you still?

Like I cut my teeth through like scheme, you know, again, I didn't play. So my job was to find patterns and breakdowns and where to draw lines on a sheet of paper, how to install. But like at the end of the day, I joke with people like we sell football widgets. The things that are successful, that makes teams successful in football are, those principles are the same across, I would imagine, most teams in all different industries and all different shapes and sizes. And it shows up. It's just not in a vacuum. Like you can have different coordinators, you can have different coaches, you can have different players, but like it's all connected. Like special teams is connected to offense and offense is connected to defense. The offensive line play is connected to our D-line play and how well our rookies do is connected to what the veterans are doing. It's just everything is playing, it all matters. It all matters. And so, and then there's this synergy behind it. And that's one of our core principles, obviously, but I really believe that there's a power there if you get it right.

What would people be shocked? About the NFL that they don't know?

I think people, to most fans, the NFL is like contracts and big names and superstars and who's the defensive genius. It's like, okay, yeah, like great players matter. You need great players. Coaches matter, but like it all matters. And there's a multiplication effect. Got it. Behind it.

One of the things that if you were to ask me that question, I would say just how honest the locker room can be. The coaches' rooms sometimes are not honest, but the locker rooms, like they're really honest rooms because they're counting on each other and they tell the truth to each other. And when they don't, there's such tension. They figure out a way to kind of break through that to get to it. Like that's one of the things.

Yeah, I buy that.

Yeah, you buy that. It's really refreshing. Where people threw not around is what we're talking about, but it's really refreshing.

It's like I've always said, players know. Well, what do they know? Well, they know who's full of shit. They know who's a good coach. They know who the best players are. They know what the organization's like. They just know. They know. So if you go around trying to fool them, like shame on you, you have no idea.

How do you think they know? I don't know, they just know.

They just know. I mean, probably to your point, this is honest, like they're living it and ultimately like their livelihood's on the line. So they're, I don't know, they just know.

If we knew what you knew, how would we be a better leader?

I think that there's just something to be said for like being like an authenticity to the process, like a real, Like if it's a real honest process where you're not trying to fool anybody, you're not trying to pull a fast one, you know, like you actually understand what's gonna work, how your industry works, what your customer wants, like you're not gonna fool your customer, I think. I would imagine that's a pretty easy parallel. Like whoever you're serving is gonna know whether or not like, You can go to a company, you can go to a restaurant and know, do they care about the customer?

You can feel it.

You can feel it. We joke about certain brands that we have relationships with. Do they really care what I want? Or do they have me in mind with what they're doing? Do they really? Some companies you feel that way. That's a real thing.

What does it mean to be the type of coach that players wanna play for?— that employees wanna be led by, but players to be coached by?

I think if we can create, we're trying to create an environment where the short answer is where you feel like you can be your best version of yourself and play your best football. So how does that come to life? Well, to me, it's not like a rigid set of, same thing goes back to the coach's playbook. You don't have to do, Okay, like you don't have to do items A through double Z in that order and you'll play your best football. It's like, there's space, there's space where I can be myself and I can be like, man, I can loosen up a little bit. I can be, I can move and shake and have some freedom to like, okay, well, the coach trusts me that my, I've shown that like my inputs are right., and maybe I was a little silly, or maybe I did go over the edge. You know, we say chasing edge. Maybe I did go over the edge a little bit, but I'm not gonna get burned for it because we do feel like we're in it together. And so we're, it's that kind of ongoing, like, give and take relationship of there's a sense of urgency to push the envelope, to chase the edge, you know, to be great, to hold yourself to a high standard, but it's also, you know, room to wiggle a little bit. And to have some innovation and to try something that might not work, but maybe it does. Now you get a huge payoff. Like there's a dichotomy there, but if you get the balance right, I think you can create something pretty cool.

You got a full life, full plate. You are a head coach, Super Bowl winning head coach.

Yeah, crazy.

You're a head coach, you are a husband, you're a father, you're a son. You've got lots of really important roles. You're a brother. How has being a father impacted this very full life that you have?

Man, it's a few things. The first thing is just is perspective. Again, you're playing the long game. You're playing the long game. Like what actually, what actually, what are we actually doing here? Patience, you know, like I feel, I didn't know I was gonna be this way with Jack, that like, I just like love watching him do his thing, you know? And I love it. And if he screws up, it's like, ah, you know? But, "Ah, his arm was in the right spot," or like, "Oh, it was cute that it was a crude screw up," or he's, "Oh, he's pissed. Now he's crying." It's like, well, like, yeah, I'd rather not cry, but like, maybe how do I get him not to cry? You know, like, what does he need? Something's up. It's not just doing it because I thought I would probably have less patience with him, where it's like, "Hey, you gotta be a good boy." I kind of thought that was about myself a little bit. So I'm pleasantly surprised, I guess. But seeing through the lens of like, okay, this is someone that I really obviously really care about. The players are the same way. The people that you work with are the same way. Let's play a little bit of a longer game here. And lightens you up a little bit, loosens you up a little bit.

Yeah, when I first had my son, maybe the similar age as Jax, is that I didn't know what to say when I was working with people. So I watched you, I'm like, damn, he's on it. You were on it this year. You were really on it. And I didn't know what to say. I'd sit down with an athlete or, some extraordinary performer in some vein. And I was like, everything was so jostled because of this new life in my life that I listened a lot and I lost my voice. And so I was wondering how it affected you because that was definitely not it.

Interesting.

Yeah, that was definitely not how you did it.

Sometimes I'm thinking like, what would I say to Jack?

Oh, you do.

All the time. I overthink how to communicate with him. Yeah, it's something that I'm trying to be better.

What does your heart long for?

With him?

In life.

Legacy has always been like something important to me. Not like, hey, I want to be the best guy looked at the best, but like what you've created, like how you've created and impacted, you know, like for the long haul, like, can you create something real? You know, like that was like the pitch as a head coach coming to Seattle was like, this is what we wanna create here. You know, there's something special that people can be proud of and have like, have pride in the team and the community and like sense of connection and have people look up here to the Pacific Northwest, be like, "Hey, what the heck's going on up there?" And then that inspires people, just this kind of snowball effect of coolness. That's the big vision.

Make it sweet.

Make it sweet. Make it sweet. That's right.

I wanna take a second here to tell you about a morning routine that I've been using for years. For me, it's a great way to switch on my mind, to ready myself to take on the day. So before I check my phone, my emails, market updates, or text threads, I choose how to start my morning. That's always in my control. That's always in your control too. This is the same morning mindset routine that some of the world's top performers across sport, business, and the arts are using. And the best part, it only takes about 90 seconds to do. So just head over to findingmastery.com, /morning to download the audio guide for free. Again, head to findingmastery.com/morning to get your morning mindset routine. When you zoom way out beyond the roles, what do you hope that the Seattle Seahawks community would understand so that they could be just a little bit better in their own lives? Whatever that means for them.

I think Jody had a great comment after the Super Bowl was she wants our team to be looked at through like the merits of what we do. And like she wants our principles, our way of life to like shine through how we go about our way of life. And it just made so much sense. It's just like they deserve that. Our guys deserve that. Our team deserves that, I think.. And it just keeps it simple. It's just like, it is what it is. And our community, I think they see that. And I think if our hearts were in a different spot, if we were kind of playing a different game, again, I think people would feel that to a certain extent. And it wouldn't be as impactful. I don't think it would be as potent.

Last kind of thoughtful question here, and I got a couple more, is like, Here's a surprise. Tell me about what this means to you.

The first thing is, is I'm wearing all my graduation regalia off of like all the crap that I won in high school. Back then, like that really mattered to me. I got the blue thing was, what was that? National Honor Society. I got French National Honor Society. I got the AJC Cup, which is like supposed to go to the top, senior or whatever.

You had all the badges.

All the badges. You had all the badges. All the badges.

All your accomplishments.

Yeah, but that's what I was thinking back then. Yeah, but like, I see it now, I just see me and my sisters. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of cool. It's really cool. Like, I just got off the phone with Maggie and it's just like, we're not talking about the Super Bowl. You know, we talk about the team and like what's going on and, you know, but like we're talking about life, you know, we're talking about her two true boys. "My dad, my stepmom just visited there." We're just talking about life and I'm learning, we're bouncing ideas off each other and it's just like we've always had those conversations. It's just really cool.

I think people would be surprised at just how much you bring the essence of your loved ones into what you do.

Yeah.

Right? And it's one of the reasons I wanted to show that. And then I did not know you were gonna say, "Oh my God, I'm wearing all my stickers." That's right.

That's the best way to put it, my stickers.

If we juxtapose your recounting of that to the way that you were handed the Lombardi Trophy on stage.

Yeah.

Most people, when they're giving something like that, they hoist it up, they show everybody, and it's like, not about look at me, it's look at the thing, but it's like, I'm the one holding it. And you like, you held it like almost like thoughtfully, and then you motioned for a couple of your players to come celebrate with you. Totally different than look at my stickers. It was like, let's do this together. Which is a really like—

A little different from back in the day.

It's way different. And it's one of those subtle things that's in plain sight, but there's a lot, there's a lot of wisdom in that moment.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, yeah. What was that like for you? Oh, sorry, go ahead.

I remember when I got this, Trophy, we were at my, it was actually at my church where they were doing graduation. And so they call my name and I go up there and there's a bunch of people there. I graduated with like 500 people and all their families are there. And I remember wanting, this is embarrassing to say like publicly, but I remember wanting to get on the microphone and deliver a thank you speech to everybody.

Oh God.

And I did one of the, like the, I mean, it's like shameful. But I remember that 'cause it mattered so much to me, yeah.

And then here 20 years later, whatever it is, like you're wanting to pull people forward that were obviously the—

Yeah, it just didn't feel right in that moment to be like, hey, like this is mine. It's like, this is not mine. They just, you know, this is—

Yeah.

It was our, you know, it was always ours, you know? So it's just a nod to the guys.

Cool moment. All right, so we've got, in the Finding Mastery community, we've got people that are serious about the Seahawks.

Love it, great. So they're everywhere, Tulls are everywhere.

Richard Schott asks, how do you help players separate their self-worth from the Sunday box score so that they can perform freely at an elite level?

Wow.

Richard.

You weren't kidding about people saying that. Our community's really smart. Yeah, that's great. This was a tricky one because, like, you get rewarded financially so much through the box, through your actual, like, sack numbers or touchdown numbers or whatever. So it's a constant communication of how, like, your production is really a reflection of, like, your impact on team success. And where you like fit in the cog and how like, you know, people, when you say rising tide raises all ships, but it really is that mentality. So like you can be a heck of a productive player and just play the A gap. And it's our job as coaches to make that come to life on why that is so important. And you doing like that dirty work, man, does that set up, that does set up the corner for an interception, believe it or not. You know, like you can connect the dots. And so we coach that way systematically, how everything kind of like works off each other. It's not easy, it's a balancing act, honestly. It's one of our biggest challenges.

Yeah, I think one of the things that you do is you don't tie their box score to their self-worth. The language does not support it, the model does not support it that you've built. And I've never heard anyone in this organization say, You know, once you get it right, then you're worth something.

Yeah.

Like you have, you just, I think Richard, there's like this, there's a clear understanding that you are not what you do. You are in of yourself, you have value and worth, and we want to be able to honor what makes you special, put you in the right situation and support and challenge you to do just that.

Yeah, I think, I think, Couple things come to mind listening to you is we try to celebrate like the non-obvious and like you being the self-worth of like you being a great teammate. We try to celebrate that in front of people, like try to find you doing those things. And we have like our little ways of doing it that are unique to us, which is cool. I think what makes our organization really great is the people that Jon has hired to surround the players. Like has nothing to do with your production on the field. You know, like our investment in our players is the same in terms of the person is the same as the guy we're paying $20 million is the guy that just walked in the door. They have all the same resources and we invest all that equally throughout the team, you know? And yeah, but it's not easy.

Joe Barsana. Okay, so he asked, what role does vulnerability play in high performance environments like the NFL?

I feel like this is a layup question. I feel like you picked this one.

I did not pick this one.

Man, this is something that I've, maybe not intentionally that we got right. I think this honestly, probably just going through the process of, hey, we're in it together, you know, the language, the model. But I do think like if you actually do feel like you're part of, the solutions and getting it right, when you do fall short, I do feel like it's my responsibility to let the guys know, 'cause I'm in the fight with them. So it's like, if I'm, I don't know, if you're out in battle with somebody and you debriefed after a mission, all those high-performing teams are always like, "Oh, yeah, I should have cleared that. I should have gone right when I went in that room. I screwed you up there." And that's, you know, And so like, that's, it's just, to me, it's like a no-brainer. And we go to our, we say to our players, look, my job is to put you in premium situations where you can have success. That's my job. Whether how we train you, how we call the game, how we game plan, the expectation that I have for us and for our coaches that we consistently put you in the upper hand situation. Like otherwise, you know, what are we doing? You know, like, why are we, why do we study tape?

And I would add one little subtlety here is that you, we both know this is not just unique to us, but you can't demonstrate courage without some sort of vulnerability because courage is like, I'm scared and I'm gonna do this thing anyway. That's like bravery and courage. And there's an energy about like, you're not quite sure, but you're still gonna go for it. And you can practice vulnerability. One of the ways you can practice it is having an honest conversation with somebody about something you need help with. Normally don't talk about. These subtle little hallway conversations or shaped experiences that you have invested in making sure that those happen. And it's like these small little additions to being courageous by moments of vulnerability that you wouldn't expect only happen on game day or on Wednesday in intense practice.

Yeah, it's practicing it.

Is it?

You know, it's really, I guess it's that simple. Like to my point earlier, it was like, if I make, if I put a guy in a bad spot, it's my job to take responsibility for that in a group setting so that they know that I'm in it with them. Like when we talk about how we wanna operate and we wanna be a connected team, how do you become a connected team if you're not willing to like, lower those walls so people can understand who you are and where you're coming from. It's something that we've worked on with me. And then our team and our leaders have done a great job of setting the example in our conversations with younger guys.

Answer in one word or two or whatever. It all comes down to?

Reality.

Success is marked by?

Dedication.

If you could sit with a true master of craft, true master, Who would that be?

Wow, man, that's a great one. Man, there's like, you can go in so many different directions. Teddy Roosevelt.

Total surprise.

My mind went in all sorts of places on that one.

If you had one question for Teddy.

I'd love to learn like his, like how he got his mindset, you know, like where does that come from and why? Because it's more aggressive than mine. There's some more, there's some more like bravado to it. Like case in point from your question, like I like to assess and then go, I felt like he—

It's a little bit of a superpower that you're really thoughtful and pensive and you're not bullied by this. Empty space, like you just—

Yeah.

I'm sure this is out there that he had a speechwriter, but his 1921 Sorbonne Paris speech is elite. It is unbelievable.

Yeah, I can't quote that.

Yeah, well, you've heard a snippet of it, the quote unquote, "Man in the arena." Yeah. But that entire prose is like unbelievable. Pressure comes from?

Lack of preparation.

My vision is?

Beacon of light in the Northwest.

Ooh. Who tells you no?

Leslie Frazier.

What's up, Leslie? Coach, listen, it's so fun to be able to have this conversation with you to celebrate like your approach to being your very best, your approach to helping this team be their very best. And I've loved every minute of being able to ride shotgun in this world that you're architecting.

Appreciate you, brother.

It's been awesome. And I love this conversation. Is there anything that you wanna make sure that we didn't talk about that?

No, I mean, we could go, I feel like we could go all day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You need your own show.

That I don't need, but.

All right.

It was fun being on this one though. Appreciate you. Yeah, you too, brother.

Next time on Finding Mastery, we're joined by Dr. Valter Longo, professor and director of the Longevity Institute at USC and bestselling author of The Longevity Diet and Fasting Cancer. In this conversation, he shares groundbreaking research on fasting-mimicking diets and the remarkable role they may play in helping the body repair itself, fight disease, and even support cancer treatments.

From longevity and nutrition to the science of cellular renewal.

This episode explores how small changes in how we eat may have a profound impact on our long-term health.

Join us Wednesday, June 24th at 9:00 AM Pacific only on Finding Mastery. All right.

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