#143: Inside Exit Five | How to Get More Reviews, Structuring a Marketing Team and Our In-Person Event

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One, two, three, four. Exit. Exit. All right, Matt, first of all, what do you. Two hours ago, we sent out the first email for events, for tickets. What's your reaction, my friend?

It's. It's crazy.

Does the legend of Exit 5 continue to grow in our minds?

Yeah, absolutely. It's like, what are we like close to like 40% sold out in two hours? I mean, that's just nuts. Like, I'm staring at the Slack channel. It's like every sale is like a drug. It's like, give me more.

I know in the last week we recorded it was after the rebrand and it was like we just refreshed that all day. This is nuts.

It is nuts. It's a lot of stuff going on, but all good.

Yeah. So we send an email. So last last week we posted a waiting list and there was like 240 people on the waiting list. We have 150 tickets that we can sell. We sent out an email to the waiting list and to existing members because we, you know, it is about the community. And so we wanted them to be the first to get a crack at tickets. And then the existing members also got a discount. So we're a couple hours in tomorrow, we're supposed to announce it publicly. It'll be cool to see when we wake up tomorrow if the thing that I'm writing on LinkedIn is going to be the event is sold out. Holy cow. Or like, there's a couple tickets remaining. But based on this pace, I think that we'll be sold out in the next two days at least. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And by the time people are listening to this, we would have been well sold out, that's for sure.

Yeah. All right, what should we talk about today?

No, us that they, they booked a ticket. They want to come from Sydney, Australia. I don't know if you saw that.

I did shout out Axel. I saw that and I said, that's amazing that he wants to come from Sydney.

Yeah.

But I also need him to either decide to decide to come or give up the ticket because someone's going to want it. So if you bought a ticket, you got to come. That's the catch. But that would be amazing.

It's going to be like Taylor Swift concert tickets. People are going to buy them and then they're just going to go resell them for like a thousand bucks.

There'll be a black market for Exit 5 event tickets.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Cool. So, yeah, why don't we get into some Inside Exit 5 this week?

All right, I'm ready.

All right, so the first one, Craig in our community asked where are the best places to put online reviews and what are some strategies for asking for online reviews. And I could start this one if you'd like, because I actually used to work for a company that did reputation management for small businesses. So not the same as what Craig was talking about. But for me, like a couple, couple pointers on online reviews. The best place to get reviews, for me, it's like wherever your competitors are. So if all your competitors are on G2, to me that seems like the most logical place to put some online reviews. But you also can have multiple places to put reviews on. So let's say G2 is like the primary platform you want to get reviews on, but there's also competitors on Capterra or trustpilot. You can do like a three step sequence over a couple months. So in the first month, when they're really happy with your product or service, you can ask for a review on G2. But then two months later, you can ask for Capterra, and two months later, you could ask for Trustpilot. So you could actually ask in multiple places. And if people are happy, they will do it, but always have that one that you're prioritizing. And then another thing that a lot of people were asking about is like, if they can incentivize for reviews. And from what I understand, this is actually malpractice on all review platforms, like telling people you'll give them a $25 gift card if they leave you a positive review. So that's absolutely something you shouldn't do, because if you get caught, all your reviews can get stripped away from you.

Oh, interesting. I did. I. I know that now, but I had to be refreshed on that. Yes. So you can't. You can't incentivize reviews.

Yeah, you can incentivize. No. So that's why the best thing is you actually have to find a time when customers are at peak happiness and ask then. And that's difficult to do because you don't always know unless you manually sift through some customers. But some things you can do, for example, which I've seen work really well, are people will ask, Will send it a mass NPS survey, and then they'll only choose the people that are like, seven and above, and they'll send those people a review request. So that's a way that you can. It's called gating your reviews. So you're like, preemptively asking if people are happy, and then if they are, you ask them for the review. So you almost guarantee positive reviews.

Yeah, it's like, if you. Sometimes I'll be using, like, an app on my phone, and it will say, like, are you happy with this app? And I'll be like, yes. And then it's like, great. Do you want to leave a review? And I'm like, no, I don't want to leave a review.

Yeah, exactly. And if you say no, they're like, oh, what can we do better? Right. They're not going to ask you for a review then. So. So, yeah.

Yeah, that's great. That's really helpful. The companies I've been at or talked to or whatever, I feel like it. It's almost. It's harder that there's multiple review sites, because I feel like if you try to focus on, like, basically, like, you. You say, like, let's focus on G2 and we want all of our reviews to be on G2. But then organically you get like seven reviews on Trust Radius and then like two of them are not good and then you're like, ah, we, that shows up high in search. Like, what do we do? We, we want to be there. So do you have to play the game and like, try to be in all those places? I feel like that's hard to do versus like pick one site and be like, we're just going to push everyone to review on G2 as an example.

I don't think you have to play the game, but if you think of somebody searching, you know, best B2B marketing communities in 2024 and trust radius has the highest SEO value and they're showing up the top of every chart and we're not even on that listing, then that's going to hurt us negatively.

So.

So I think you just have to play it by like, you know, what's the most popular. But I don't think it hurts to set up a profile in multiple places if you're getting a lot of negative reviews on one of the platforms. And maybe the strategy is to direct some of your reviews to those platforms to drown out all the negative ones. Yep.

I also think one of the things there. So like, what should you do with the reviews? Where should you put them? We talk about this often. Like social proof is the best marketing that you have. And so I think you could have a dedicated page on your website for like examples. But I also think they should just be. It should just good marketing. It should just be sprinkled in. Whether you're B2B services, website, a software company or a restaurant, you should have proof sprinkled into all of your marketing. And so like that means reviews. People want to hear from other people what their experience was using the product. And so like I kind of read that question as like, well, there's not just like one place, it has to just. It's just good marketing and it should just be integrated into everything that you're doing.

Yeah, exactly. I'm not an SEO pro, but I know there's a lot of widgets online that you can use that'll funnel reviews from multiple sites onto a widget on your website. And it's something that Google really likes. Apparently from an SEO perspective, it shows them that like, you know, you're a trusted, trusted person, especially if they're Google reviews, which they won't always be. But that's another one where it's like you can use a widget to put reviews onto your site.

Also, reviews are a tough one, really, because I feel like we, we want to say like, as a mark marketing advice, we want to be like, how do we get more reviews and how do we incent, how do we use them more? And it's kind of like the real answer is like, to have a good product.

Yeah.

And it's just funny because I asked for. I actually don't do this that much because I don't really care. But like, you know how, like, it's a common podcasting strategy to be like, ask, push for reviews. Like, I just, I just don't want to do that. Like, I know I listen to. There's podcasts that I listen to and they're like running these little contests and they're like, leave us a review. Like, you know, these reviews really matter. Like, I, I know that. I just. God, I've been podcasting for 10 years. Like, the whole, like, if, if people are going to leave a review, like, if people will want to leave a review, they will do it. Have you ever left a review for anything?

If I've been asked multiple times. Like, I left one for my physiotherapist the other day and they asked me multiple times and he's like, really good. So I was like, okay, fine, I'll do it because I know it matters. But other than that, no, not really.

Right. And so like, I, I know that people do review. Like, okay, I'm reading a book right now and I, I do love going to Amazon and reading reviews of books. Right. And I just personally don't leave reviews. And so it's like, I try to have empathy for, like, if I just push everyone. I've never left a review for a podcast, but I've asked people to leave a review. And so I think it's good to push for reviews. It's good to ask them. You know, they, they do matter. I think what happens is like, it becomes this game of like, your competitors have lots of reviews and you don't have any. And then you're like, ah, shoot. Like, we gotta kind of play this game. But I like, I think your advice was really, really good, Matt. Which is like, your advice is basically the way I translate that is like integrate it into something else from your marketing versus, like making it a one off, like, reviews campaign. Like, oh, what a. Would a quarterly NPS survey or some type of feedback survey be useful data for us? Yes. Okay, Are we going to find out which people are Happy through this. Yes. Could we then ask those happy people like, hey, by the way, like, it would mean a lot if you left a review that then do that, right?

Yeah, exactly. I think that's the only way to do it. The one off is good for that one little quick hit, but then it's like, how about the next twenty, thirty, a hundred customers? Right? So.

Yeah, good, good answer. Good answer.

Cool. Next topic is team composition. So I think you had responded on, in on this one, but someone was asking about what the makeup of their team should be. You know, they were saying they have a budget north of half a million dollars. You know, and we're essentially asking what are the best, you know, what kind of roles should they be hiring for? How should they build the team? I feel like you have more experience there.

Yeah. So I, Hmm. This is a tricky one because I feel like this is one of the situations where we like to. It's easy to default to benchmarks and to be like, well, this other company has this much revenue and this many employees and they have their team structured like that. And I think that's a tough game to play because the, the new. There's so much nuance and the variables are so different, like who you can attract from a talent standpoint, the budget that you have, the industry you're in, there's a lot of nuance. Who, who just happens to be available. You know, so often it's like, oh, well, this person in our network was, you know, worked for this CEO at, at her last company and she happened to be available and her thing was demand gen and so she joined first. And so that's why we have that. You know what I'm trying to articulate, like it's not this perfect science. And one of the things that I really learned a lot from working at Drift with David and Elias, those guys was like, they made it up based on what the business needed and instead of worrying about like, well, we need a product marketing manager who does this and we need a demand gen person who does this. Like, they pushed me to really just think more about like the functions of the business and the goals of the business and what are we trying to accomplish. And at one time we were, we were trying to really make a push in video and so we went and hired a video person and we figured out like which team they were going to be on later. It was like, let's, let's solve that function. Also somebody's got to manage people and people have to report to each other and there has to be some structure. And so like I think we often get caught up on like who needs to report to who versus like this might be Dave. Dave is the team leader. It's not really this perfect thing but like he's going to own this and this and this. And so like as an example at my last company Privy, where I was CMO when I brought Dan, when I hired Dan, you know, Dan now he's kind of like a jack of all trades, right? He's just like a figure it out guy. And we had already had someone really strong on demand gen. I would have hired Dan to do demand gen even though he didn't have deep experience there. I think he would have figured out. But the two other teams that we needed to have were product marketing and brand mark were product marketing, brand marketing and partner marketing. And so I hired Dan and was like, you, you're responsible for these three functions and that's how the team got assembled. Verse like if we had laid out, okay, we have product marketing, let's hire a person for that. We have partner, let's hire a person for that. I think you really gotta. This is, this is a fun part about team building I think to me is like it's the closest you're ever gonna get to like building a sports team and you have a budget and you gotta see who's available and who you can afford and who can actually work to you and work with you and which people are gonna mesh. And so I don't have like a perfect answer on like, here's how you should structure your team. I would just push you to like not focus on the benchmarks, not look at traditional org charts. Really think about what are the goals of your team right now and what is the strategy, what do you need to solve and then let things evolve. Like if we Keep growing Exit 5 at this rate and we build a team. Matt, like do you think you're going to be like solo community manager forever? No. You're going to keep growing and rising and different things are going to come pop up and you're going to have the opportunity to take on another channel, another team. I think you have to have a lot of flexibility. I think now this is different at like, like if you're LinkedIn and you have a 500 person or 300 person marketing team or whatever, then like there's going to be more structure there. But I think especially in the earlier days, you gotta, you gotta be more fluid with it and you gotta focus more on the strategy and like think about Jobs to be done. What jobs do you need to be done and who's going to do them then? Like who? You know, this perfect, this perfect team structure.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

What's your reaction to that? To my. My rant on that?

I agree. I agree. I like the line of, like, it's about doing what the business needs first and to think from a first principles perspective. Like, even for myself and Exit 5, I know we're. We're different than some other companies, but originally you and Dan hired me to do social and community, and then that.

Did we. What year was that? Was that this year?

Was all the way back in 2023.

What, what. When was that? I don't remember.

Yeah, social, community. And then it was like, okay, now you're a marketing manager doing, you know, a bunch of different marketing things, content, et cetera. Now it's like going back to focus more in community, but still doing some other stuff. So it's like, I've just been pretty fluid in what the business needs, and you guys have done a good job of just letting me go through that process. But what I really like, too, is like, our content engine does really well. We know that. And for us, we just looked at it and said, okay, like, you know, we don't have anyone strictly managing content right now, so maybe it makes sense to hire a content marketing manager. A big part of it, too, is like, we've done the thing already, we've done it well, proves it could work to some extent. So now we're going to go and hire that person. So I think that's also a great way to approach it.

Yeah, this is where, like, who you hire and, like, you learn as you go. And so, like, like, we hired you, you're doing a bunch of these things. We've kind of found this pocket of, like, where you're going to focus, but at the same time, we're hiring a content person now. But you're tot. You've been an amazing teammate and, like, you're totally fine with, like, some. I've worked with some people in the past, and it's like the second that they find out that we're going to hire a content person, like, they start slipping on all the other stuff. Like, you're still managing the podcast, you're still managing the newsletter, you're still managing social. This just says a lot about, like, the type of person that you are, and these are the people that you want to surround yourself with from teammates, where you're not like, oh, all right, then I'm just gonna let this go because someone else, like, that shows me that you really care about this business. You feel like an owner in this business. You want to see the business win. And now like, I wrote about this yesterday on LinkedIn actually, which is like every, anytime I've made a bad hiring decision, whether a person or an agency, every mistake I've made, hiring agency people full time people on the team or whatever, it's been because we didn't, we didn't do parts of that job first, right? Like, look at how, look at how deep Dan has gone in on like events, right? Setting up Drive. Now if we do want to hire a full time events person, like, even if that person fails, I would feel better about making that investment because, like, we kind of know what to expect. We've done a little bit, we can ask better questions. And so in this example, you've been doing a lot of the content stuff. Now we're going to like take away those Legos, give them to somebody else and then like, hopefully we can find someone who's like, what you've done for that space and we're going to continue to grow. But you haven't been like, no, that's not my job or taking it personally that like, we're going to find a content person. There's just so much toxic nonsense. And so like, again, this is nuance. That is another important ingredient to like figuring out how we're going to grow the team. Right. You've basically done five parts of marketing to now double down on one or two. And then we're going to go like, find somebody else so we can grow in that area. I think a lot of that, a lot of that matters. And then the org design is just like, man, you don't know who's gonna be, who can you get? Like, who can you hire? Who can you get, who can you afford? Which person is gonna mesh with your team? I mean, I wrote about how we're gonna be hiring a content person. I have so many dms from people who amazing, like top A level talent in this B2B marketing space that are messaging me. But then I also know that like, ah, that person's amazing. But like, I don't, I don't think they would mesh with us. I don't think that's the right person. And so there's a lot of, there's a lot of nu.

Yeah, yeah, I like that one. Yeah. Another thing that, that made me think of is like, even as a Team leader. I think sometimes people will hire a specialist and then be like, great, that person owns it. Now it's off my plate. Like, you're the owner, so all the results are on you, and it's like you're just leaving that person out to dry from the jump. One thing that I liked about you and Dan was like, even as I started to take things off your plate, like, you still remained somewhat involved, which made it a lot easier for me from the perspective of someone who's not managing someone right now, it's really great when my manager does not just totally step away the second I start owning something. Like, make it a bit more gradual and help them along the way. No matter how senior you are or they are, it doesn't matter.

Yeah, it was interesting. And Jason Lemkin talked about this. I can't remember if it was in our conversation or something else that I listened to him talk about, but he said that he really wanted to be the fully, hands off, don't be a micromanager. And, like, that's the only way you survive. And scale. And there's some truth to that. But he said one of those mistakes he made in the early days of Saster was like, actually being too hands off and fully just like, being like, yep, I hired Matt. I don't know, figure it out. And I think initially when you and Dan started, I think I kind of, like, was going down that path. And now I realize that, like, I'm better if I can, like, go deep in something. And so, like, you'll see this from me. Now, I'm not always in the weeds, but I might hop in for a minute. Like, you know, over the weekend, I went. I'll go. Like, I'll go on a spur. And you'll see this from me in slack. Like, I'll go on a spur and I'll be like, in the community. And I'll be like, matt, does this work? Is this thing wrong? Check this out. And I'm not, like, checking your work. It is just me just going in and just, like, seeing things through my eyes. And then, like, none of it is a quiz, but me saying those things to you and then, like, how you respond. It's never a test, but I do learn a lot from how you respond. You're like, oh, interesting. Yeah, I gotta look into that. Or like, yes, I've thought about that, but don't worry about it because, like, this is more important. Like, that's how I check a lot of boxes. And so I think that that's like the role for me in running this business is to like be. I forget what the saying is, but like you're, you're like a little bit deep in all of the different areas. You know, it can't run like that. Like I can't be rely. And we've gotten to a better place. We've gotten a really good place where now we're like, for example, if you share something, right, you're not waiting on me to ship it, you're gonna give me some time to respond and if I don't, you're gonna ship it and then we can, I can give feedback later. That's like the perfect position to be in. But I can also hop in and like go really deep and give feedback. And I think that's, that's the, the right working relationship right now.

Yeah, I agree. And if you want a team to move fast, like inevitably there's gonna be some things that the individual might miss or could have done better or should think about next time. So you know, you going in is great because it just helps me get better for next time. But it should never be from the manager's perspective. Like you should have done this, you should have done that. Especially if you're giving them like 10, 20 things in their plate. Like there's going to be some areas where they're, you know, they maybe didn't do everything that they could have, but if you give them the right feedback the next time, they will.

Yeah. And look, I'm sharing all of this right now from the perspective of like running our three person company. The biggest team I've ever had is 30 people. I'm sure the answer is different if you are the CMO of a hundred person marketing org, but even still, I find that in those orgs, like the people that I talk to, like Tom Wentworth for example, I don't know how many marketers they have on that team. Maybe 30, 40, they're like a $250 million revenue company. He's like, no, I'm still in HubSpot every day.

Love that.

And I think he's like, I need that. I need to like be involved at that level. So I think that's, that's pretty unique. But it's weird. It's the hardest I've struggled with that, like scaling as a manager, like the level of, the level of being hands off because also you can't. Your, your brain like does not function if you try to be involved in everything and you need to give your team autonomy. But you also need to know what's going on. It's weird. It's like you own a store. You need to pace up and down and understand, like, which products are on the aisles and how everything works. But you can't possibly know, like, what's the SKU and how many or, you know, it's just. It's a challenging thing. So.

Yeah, totally.

We haven't sold the ticket in 18 minutes. I'm starting to get worried. I just looked at Slack. We haven't said the last ticket was purchased at 344. It's now 402. Should I call Dan?

Do we need to Send the alert LinkedIn post? I think we should start running an ad to everyone. B2B marketing.

I was so mad at him before because he told me to go to Hula. He's like, we need you to go down there and film a video. And I did. And then he wasn't even going to use the damn email. The damn video. And I'm like, no, you better. You need to use. He's like, no, we don't want to use it now. I'm like, yes. In the. The email to the waiting list is exactly when we should use the video because those are the people that we want to buy the tickets. And it's like this nice personalized video.

Exactly.

I edited it myself. Shout out to Cap. Cut. Tim Davidson will be a fan. Like, I sat on a bench outside and I edited that video. And that's what it is.

I know. That was funny when he was like, no, we'll use it for the next email.

No, no, no. What do you mean? You made me go down there. I took an hour out of my day to go down there today.

That was funny. I know. And the tickets may not even be available in the next email, so I'm glad we used it.

No, and the. The vent is the. The Venn space is called Hula.

Yeah.

And thank goodness. Talk about being in and out. He sends the FAQ copy. He's calling it the Hula. What is that? The Hula Tan? Give me a break.

Oh, man.

What else? Anything else on the docket?

Yeah, last one. This one should be. Should be right up your alley. The past.

Dave's Alley.

It's live chat on your website. Is it a good way to get more leads, increase conversions? How would you help someone think through live chat?

I have no idea. No idea. This is like. This is like asking me about, like, my eighth grade girlfriend. Like, I don't. That was a lifetime ago. I'd have no opinions about live chat. Honestly, I'm trying to give you the, like, I think people like that people wanted to ask me to ask because I worked at Drift and we, we pioneered that. I, I don't, I don't have a strong opinion on this anymore. I think there's so many tools that you can evaluate that can do so many things. And should you use live chat? I don't know. What is the strategy? To me that's like, should you be on TikTok fair? I don't know. I've actually thought about this. I'm like, we should have some type of chat on our site. We get a thousand questions via support, but that's a different thing. Do you have an opinion on this?

Well, so I started my career in sales and at the moment when I was transitioning from sales to marketing in the same company, they had put me on managing the chat bot because we would get some inbound from there and I think it can do. If you're getting a lot of demo requests or emails from people asking about your pricing or services, then I think it's a natural thing to add. But if you just have a super low conversion rate and you're not getting a lot of interest on your site, adding a chatbot I don't think is going to do much for you. It's probably just going to add another task for someone on your team to manage because someone on your team is then going to have to go and manage that thing. So in a lot of cases I don't think it's the answer. I think it can be, but I don't think it is.

I will say though, I do feel like there's going to be and I'm not familiar with a lot of companies in this space, but I think the opportunity is ripe right now given how good AI has gotten. Like the idea of have of a virtual of an assistant on the website helping navigate the website is real and very powerful. And so like, you know, if that's an FAQ, whether it's FAQs or getting, you know, answers or help or whatever, I think the idea makes a ton of sense versus if you go back to just the, the traditional way, which is fill out a form and wait for a response. If you can chat right now on the website and get help from someone and it doesn't have to be, you know, maybe it's staffed by a human. If the math works out there for you. I know it's very helpful like for the, some of the tools that we use Even if it's just like transistor for hosting our podcast, if I have to write in and ask them a question, if they're there, that's more support inside of the app. But I do think it makes sense. Just like it comes back to the, like, who's going to do it? Is it going to be someone going to do it? Okay. No, we can't have somebody do it. Okay, then is the AI and then is the content you feed it going to be good enough to give people answers then? I think. I think that can make a ton of sense. But again, I really do feel like you can use any marketing tool. Like, you could make the case that we should have billboards for Exit 5. We could. We could spend 40 minutes talking about the pros and cons of doing that, right?

Yep.

What's the strategy?

Agreed.

Where does it fit?

Amazing. That's all. That's all for today.

All right, so by the time this podcast goes out, Drive is going to be sold out. I guarantee it. If it's not, I will film myself doing a cold plunge in Lake Champlain, and I will pay my own Money to Fly 50 podcast listeners to the event. All right. How's that?

Might need to edit this one out.

That would be a bummer. If we just stall out at 46 tickets. Like, it was just, like, such a hot start, but now we're just. We're just stuck here. Here we are.

We hyped it up too much. Who knows what the gods are planning?

We don't know. We don't know. So the event. So we got the exit. We got the Exit 5 event. It's called Drive. September 11th and 12th in Burlington, Vermont. If, for whatever reason, it's not sold out, you can go exit5.com drive. Check it out. Use my promo code. Now. There's no. There's no discount. There's no discount. You get a discount if you're a member. If you're an existing exit by member, you discount Exit5.com Drive. You can continue listening this podcast. Matt, we talked about reviews today. You could, you know, let's give a push, send a review. Matt, we're gonna get. We're gonna give Matt $1 for every every review that gets left for this podcast. My God, what else? We're going to open two new roles soon. We're hiring two new roles. Content marketer, marketing coordinator, and we're going to hire and we're going to continue to grow. We got something really special, and that's purely because of the people that are listening to this podcast. We have an unbelievable community. The people in the community. And I think we have two parts of community. We have the actual community, like in behind the login, that's community. But we also have the podcast listeners, the newsletter subscribers, people on social media, the comments, the feedback, the response we get is amazing. B2B marketers. And so thank you so much. Keep that coming. I'm having a ton of fun. And Matt, just to embarrass you in front of everybody else, you have done an amazing job coming in here in Exit five. You're. You work your butt off, you're humble, you are continuing to learn. You just won me over this week because now that you're all in on community, you're like reading books about community, listening to podcasts about community. This is what it takes. You gotta find the book called Mastery by Robert Green and you'll, you'll see what it is. But you've done an awesome job and I've had a blast working with you. So let's keep it going. Thank you for listening to the Eggs 5 podcast. We're outta here.

All right, thanks.

Exit.

Foreign.

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