How To Grow Your Audience On LinkedIn

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1, 2, 3, 4. Exit. Exit.

My guest on this episode is Daniel Murray. He's host of the Marketing Millennials podcast and solutions consultant and marketing ops at Clearbit. Yo. There he is. The man. What's up?

Hey.

Hey. Good to see you. Are you still in the West Coast?

Yeah, I'm in the west coast for now.

When are you going?

February 27th.

Oh, soon. Okay. You're going to pack or what?

Barely. Bring anything at the. Pack some stuff.

Okay. We're going to talk this whole hour and it's going to be heavy. So I want to cover everything and everybody's in chat. Andrew, Liz, Nishant, Will, Alberto. This is great. This will be a really popular topic. We'll see how many people show up. But I'm going to post this for everybody in DGMG anyway. Okay, so here's a backstory. This is Daniel Murray. Daniel, what's up? Want to give a quick intro for people that if they don't know you, they probably do, but if they don't.

Just tell people who you are.

Yeah. Right now I'm in the solutions consultant at Clearbit and you might see me on social media sometimes. I pop up there sometimes and social media is kind of my side hustle that I love to do. And it's kind of like my other pillar of the T shaped marketer, if you think of it as operations and then social media.

Nice. Which is rare, actually. I think it's a rare combination. Okay. I wanted to do this because I see this topic come up a lot and you and I trade a lot of messages and we see what people are posting and have a lot of conversations about what's working and what's not. But I also think that LinkedIn is still, and this is DG, we talk specifically to B2B marketing. I think LinkedIn is still wildly, wildly underrated for B2B. And the reason why is not because Nobody knows about LinkedIn, but I think that most people are not Most companies, most B2B SaaS companies are just not using it in the right way. What's your reaction to that comment?

100%. Because I think B2B SaaS companies are treating it like, oh, here's all about me. Here's about my latest webinar, here's about my latest board member that I just hired, here's my series A announcement, here's my latest blog post I wrote. And this has nothing to do with why someone should follow you on social media, unless you're someone who's going to be hired for that company or you want to check in and be like, oh, is this company credible or not? There's no reason to do that and think people missing opportunities to build audiences on LinkedIn.

Yeah, I think what people miss with that is like, and here's what we're gonna do. This is not gonna be me interviewing Daniel and us going back and forth. We wanna help you. So the way to do that is raise your hand and then I will bring people in. And I wanna help you specifically with your LinkedIn questions. I'm gonna give preference to anybody who's actually willing to raise their hand and be on camera, be on audio and chat. So do that and then also take other questions too. And I'll get to Nishat in a minute. But the way that I think about it is similar to what you said. But I think what people miss is, to me, the ultimate goal is to build an audience because ultimately you want to drive some business result, you want to have lots of followers on LinkedIn. And I think people will say, well, that's just a vanity metric. But it's not. Because if you have lots of followers on LinkedIn in the niche of B2B and you post interesting things and then you promote things about your company, people are going to be more likely to actually go to your website. And so I felt this personally when I was working at Drift, for example, I used to just only post Drift stuff. Drift stuff. Drift stuff. And that worked in maybe 2017, 18, when LinkedIn organic was kind of going crazy. But then what I did is a couple years after I switched and I kind of completely just only talked about marketing, but maybe only 20% of the time I would promote something. And so what I noticed was when I promoted things a lot, the response was very low. And this is what I see so many B2B companies do is exactly what you said. Their LinkedIn, either people or company page is all sign up for our webinar. And I see that post that's like, hey, go to our event. And the post has 11 likes and three comments. And the three comments are from the three sales reps at the company. And so what I found personally was when I talked more about marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing. And then on day number nine, I said, hey, I'm doing this event with Daniel Murray. Go sign up. I'm actually going to get people to sign up because you've actually started to build an audience there. And I think that especially if you're in LinkedIn, if you're in B2B, LinkedIn can be one of the best top of the funnel strategies. And you have to just start thinking like a media company, not I got to promote my stuff, but it's about your customer. And so if you sell to finance or if you sell to HR or if you sell to ops, how can you create the Go to page for people in that space? You've done this as an example with your marketing Millennials page. You don't have software and business stuff to promote. You started this as a side hustle from a guy who just liked marketing and wanted to post marketing stuff. And so you've grown this 200,000 plus follower page basically through posting quotes and memes and gifs and observations. And now if you promote something, you help promote my book this week. And the response to that was awesome. And that's because you don't often promote stuff. Okay, so that ran is over and I'm going to tag in Nishant to kick us off and then we'll go to Khalid. Go ahead, sir.

Khaled.

Khaled.

Sorry, I think DJ Khaled.

That's me, DJ Khaled. Is that really?

No, I'm the original DJ Khaled. But then he sold from me.

Respect. Sorry, Khaled.

There you go. I've been on LinkedIn and it's been semi effective. My ICP. I don't even like the word ICP, but we typically work with e commerce companies and I'm not sure if I'm just not able to find the right audience. I have a ton of marketers who follow me. Some posts do really well I cannot figure out what posts work really well and what posts don't work really well. Sometimes I write something in a couple of minutes and I'm like, wow, that blew up. And sometimes I'm like, oh, I put really a lot of thought into this and then there's very little interaction. So would love to hear some thoughts on that.

Dan, you go first.

So you said your audience is E commerce.

Yeah.

So basically retailer, you know, I mean large E commerce.

What type of services are you?

I run a conversion optimization agency. So most of my posts are about marketing experimentation. We do a weekly case study. Every Wednesday that we post, we pick an a B experiment, an a B test that we just ran and we show some analysis. If you want, I can send a link to my profile.

For me, I think when posting on LinkedIn you gotta put yourself in the shoes of who that person is that you're going to be writing for. So if it's E commerce company, you might be just attracting CRO people. And CRO people already get CRO. So you're just getting a bunch of people that are in your space that like your post. If you want to track E commerce people, I would talk about how to improve E commerce stuff and become like an authority of E commerce because then you're going to get an audience of E commerce people and then they'll be like, oh, he knows also CRO. Let's go to him to talk about CRO. But you can mix in CRO stuff, I think. But if you're going to talk just about CRO stuff, you're just going to get a bunch of CRO people following you and being like, oh, cool, you understand CRO. I think sometimes that's the problem with people on LinkedIn. It's like the reason why for Dave at work to post about marketing is because drift was that his audience was marketers and they were showing like, oh, Drift understands marketing. And I should get Drift because Drift is. I know David does more than that. But if you're focused on more E commerce stuff, I would go a little bit more broad on just E commerce.

I'm looking at your page right now. You seem like the CRO expert, but 10 of your last 10 posts are basically about CRO. Yeah, basically where you should try that honestly tomorrow and what's a meme or gif or something just completely funny or emotional or relatable to E commerce people that has nothing to do with CRO. You can talk about CRO. And I think that is important. I think that for you what you're trying to sell. You can't just only post memes and be successful. But I think I'm starting to see the light on so much more. Look at what works on some of the top Instagram and TikTok accounts. What are those types of things? What are people naturally interested in? How can you post some of that stuff? Now I'm following you. Now, I know you're the CRO guy, but you're also kind of funny and you're personal, and it seems like you get E commerce marketing people, and I think the natural tendency is to not want to do that. I like that.

And I think that's the missing piece. It just hit me. As you guys explained it, this is clear as day. But, yeah, who follows me are the CROs. Although my target is E commerce, I rarely post about that, so this makes a lot of sense.

But look, you have 9,500 followers on LinkedIn, and it's not like your posts get no engagement. I'd argue that the people that are engaging on your stuff are probably really quality people because of your niche, but I think you're focused too far on the bottom of the funnel. And so I would maybe just switch it and start posting the CRO stuff.

Also, if CRO is already in your tagline of your name, people will understand that you're a CRO person.

Oh, yeah, that's a great one. Your headline is Chronicles of Strategy and Marketing. No growth hack. Period. Period. Period. That's what I see. So if you want to be the E commerce, and even if you want to be the CRO guy or the E commerce guy, I can't actually easily see that. This is what I see. Chronicles of Strategy and Marketing.

Yeah, no CRO there. And no E commerce either.

No E commerce.

And then also, one thing people underestimate about LinkedIn is a very good search engine. So if someone's searching E commerce or CRO, you're not coming up at all. When you're hitting the name, you're missing out on people who are even searching that, because you're not putting that in your headline at all when people search for you.

All right, Kyle, thank you.

Thank you, guys.

Yeah, and by the way, post a meme or something this week, have fun with it, and then DM it to me and Daniel or something. Nishant, you want to try to go again? Go ahead.

So a bit of my background. I recently graduated, pursued my MBA in marketing. That was my introduction to marketing, and I kind of fell in love with it. But I Have always been very reserved person, introverted. So I feel very weird putting myself promoting myself. I'm doing it for my clients, but I feel really weird and uneasy putting myself out there. That's why I tried putting content on LinkedIn. It got some decent attraction as well. That is one thing I want to understand how to work around. And second is since I have recently started, I have a couple of different things I am working on and have planned to work on. Now how do I keep those separate? For example, one is a relationship based podcast, one is a marketing podcast and I'm working with someone who is building their own courses that I also will need to promote.

I think on the first one. So I have two ways out answers. Number one is part of it is that's okay. It's not supposed to be easy. I would love to be super jacked and have 15 abs, but you have to eat incredibly and work out a million times to be able to do that. And so there's gotta be some trade off, right? Like if you're not comfortable doing it well, then you might not reap the benefit from it. And so I would say part of it is like you might have to swallow a pill and start to be like, I'm not comfortable doing this, but maybe I'll learn and maybe I'll grow. And what's the why for you wanting to do it? It's not just to be vain and post about your stuff on social media. It's because you have things that you want people to find and discover, right? The other thing is I actually think I wrote about this in the book, but the reason I'm so bullish on Twitter and LinkedIn from a brand building standpoint is because of what you mentioned in that most people are not comfortable on video or they're more introverted or they're comfortable on camera, or we're not asking you to make a TikTok dance or do some viral video. I see your name in my Facebook group a hundred times a week. Dude, you're clearly not afraid to write things. Channel that energy into LinkedIn and it's just text. You don't have to get on video. And so that's how I would do that. But Daniel, what do you want to say? Can you give him some advice about the second part? Like if you want to talk about six topics, how do you build a following? If you're going to talk about six.

Topics, I think the key is starting to find what you want to be known for. It all starts with what you want to be known for in the long term. You can't be known for everything. It's just not possible.

It's so true. And I hear this all the time. I'm interrupting only because I want to mention this. People say this a lot. All the time. I got these six different things that I want to do. Okay, well, then what Daniel and I are going to tell you is that what work. If you want to build an audience on a social media channel, the thing that works best is to actually not talk about those six things, only talk about the one or two.

Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what I'm just going to say. It's like you want to be known for something in the future. You're more than what you are today as a person. If I came to you 10 years ago and I said 10 years from now, and who are you? You would be known as X. You would be known as the person of all these different things. Because you can't be great at everything. You have to sacrifice things to be known as great as one or two things. So what I would start is that. And also I think for sprinkling on these things, I think you can sprinkle in, but you have to give value 80% or 85% of the time, and then give those things the other things that you want to give.

Yeah, I always go back to, like, really not even marketing. And thanks for hollering, Brendan, come off mute. And you go next. And I wish I could spend an hour with everybody, but it's just impossible. So I want to make this valuable for the most amount of people. The other thing is, what are the accounts that you actually follow? Not me on this webinar thing, Dave, but when I'm just sitting on the couch scrolling through my phone, which content am I actually stopping and reading? And how can you be that? And it's such obvious advice, but it's just so hard to think about that in the moment. And so what I see with a lot of B2B companies in particular, well, we got a blog post, so we got to post about that. We got a new podcast episode, so we got to post that. We got an event next week, so we got to post that. We won some awards, so we got to post that. And I'd argue nobody wants to hear about any of those things. Even if take the best brand in the world. Take Nike. I'll give you Nike. I love Nike. I don't care about what awards that they won on social media. Maybe one out of every ten they Post that. But you have to really think about social media and this is why so many brands can't get it right is that they just treat it like another promotional channel versus what actually works to build an audience here. Okay, go ahead. Brendan, you're on with Dave and Daniel. Radio Hour.

Hey guys, thanks for taking my question. I see Dan and Dave, you guys both. I see posts like some stuff you do on Twitter onto LinkedIn and so I just kind of want to get your thoughts on creating content on a different platform like Twitter or TikTok and then posting that on LinkedIn. Like why do you guys do that? And have you seen success with that? So I just like to hear what you guys think.

Go, Daniel.

Heck yes, I see success with it. But I'll give you the true reason why I started doing it and then we'll go.

Sure.

But the true reason I started doing it is because I wanted to start building my Twitter and I was going to cross promote that on LinkedIn because I just didn't want to write original content on both platforms. So I chose which was my top of funnel platform and then repurposed on LinkedIn. And then I realized, okay, if I post this on LinkedIn, it's actually getting a lot of likes and engagement and it's sharing and then the extra benefit is I get an extra 10, 15, 30 followers on Twitter at the same time. So I did it for cross promotional reasons. But I also started posting dark mode because it stands out in the feed. Like it interrupts a feed. If you look at a dark post versus text and a feed, it interrupts it. Like if you scrolling on your feed and you see a dark post, you just like it's something different. That's the thing about these. You have three seconds to stop someone. And if someone sees a dark tweet with big text, they're just like, oh yeah, okay, I'll read that. That's easy to read. Instead of going to read this wide post which is line by line. So that's why.

What's a dark post? A dark post is just when he takes a screenshot of the tweet on its phone, it's in dark mode. So the background is black because the LinkedIn background is white.

I realize it stands out in the feed where other posts don't. If you see it in the feed and that's why people notice. To be honest, you don't have to. I told Dave you don't have to and he knows as well. But you don't have to be an a writer out there. You just need to find a way to stick out. And that could be through consistency, but you have to have some above average content. And honestly, a tweet is just like a hook in someone's face. That's what it really is. A tweet is just a one line hook.

Yeah, and Brad mentioned this in the comment. I've seen comments from this from people like if I do this is lazy. Well, I totally disagree with that because I think it's actually the ultimate example of what I just mentioned before, which is actually thinking about the feed. I want people to see my stuff. And so this thought is the LinkedIn feed is typically just white and plain. And so taking a screenshot of the tweet, I think that that's a great piece of advice and line of thinking. I also think of it like this. The way social media channels work is they make their money through advertising and so they show very little. I have however many hundred thousand follow on LinkedIn, on an average post, would you say less than 10% of my followers actually see that content? And the same is true on Twitter. So I do it as a way to get more people to see the message. And so I think of what's the message, what are the ideas that I want to be putting out? And the way that I distribute them is through Twitter and LinkedIn. And I have no problem taking something and posting it on one channel or the other.

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Because yes, a very small slice of people will have already seen it and be like, this is lame, dude, I already saw this. They don't even say that. But most importantly, 99% of the people probably didn't even actually see that post in the first place. And so I think that's why I do it. I hate this thinking that you post something once and you can't ever use it again because of that same thinking that 99% of people, let's say 90% of my followers, don't ever see my stuff. And yet I post something I know that 90% of them ever see and then I never go back to that again. And so one of the things that Daniel helped me do more of is let's go back and find things like, yes, I've said that before. But my game is I want as many people to see it as possible. And so if that thing, how often do I post 10 of my favorite copywriting tips? Those of you that know me and have been following me for years or indie gmg, you're like, oh, you always post that, but many, many new people have never seen that. And that's a popular piece of content for them to get engaged with and start to see more stuff and click like and click comment. And then once they do that, they're going to see more of the post. And so I think of it that way. And the other last piece on this is it's an amazing way to test what's going to work. I usually don't think about I'm going to go Write this for LinkedIn, but I just might be on a walk and I have some random thought and I tweet that thought out about marketing or whatever and I check my phone later and that tweet has a bunch of comments and likes and retweets. I might then say, huh, this content piece has already been proven as interesting to people that follow me. I'm going to now take it and put it on the backlog and that's going to be something that we use for LinkedIn in a couple days or next week.

You also made a great point there. People think that I just take every one of my tweets and I put them on there. I take the ones that are the best performing tweets and put them on there because I want people found value on Twitter. I think they will find value on LinkedIn too.

The other thing though, I think what also works about that stuff is it works best when you give the one, two punch to the image. If you just blindly post the quote image and you don't have 200,000 followers like the marketing Millennials page, if you just blindly take a screenshot and post it to LinkedIn, nothing's going to happen. Use the one, two punch, write copy, add a new thought, add the image. I like to think about how does the copy and the screenshot, how can they best work together? Brendan, any last second comment on that before we switch over?

Yeah, I just say Daniel to your comment earlier. It is a complete attention interrupter and I totally get it. So many people are in posting these huge long things on LinkedIn. It's like I very quickly run out of attention. But when I'm scrolling through I see Daniel or Dave. You post a dark mode tweet. It's like, oh, I can definitely at least read that before I go on about my day. It keeps you guys top of mind for me a lot when you're doing that. So that's some great stuff. And I think the same thing with the TikTok Todd Klauser going and posting his TikToks and LinkedIn like, yeah, I'll go watch your 10 second video, Todd. And so then I'm thinking about him. But I don't have time to be watching super long pieces of content all the time.

Any great non B2B company does this. I love golf and my favorite golf content is golf memes and golf TikTok stuff and those channels. One of them is an account called Zire Golf. I found them on Instagram, but they also have Instagram and they also have TikTok and they're posting the same stuff. And I think it's just an audience. It's a. We spend millions and millions of dollars on paid advertising and we know that the trick, one of the not tricks, but one of the best practices to paid advertising is reach and frequency. Right. The more someone sees the message, they're going to actually do something with it. And so why isn't that the same with organic social. Okay, lovely, you're on next. See you, Brendan.

Hey everyone. I hope everyone's having a good day. I just wanted to ask a question because I'm just getting back on LinkedIn because most of my clients were coming through personal referrals. But I want to know, I know that to grow that I would have to reach. If you both were starting off LinkedIn today, no traction, just really starting off bare. Where would you begin and how would you build better relationships along the way as you're trying to scale your social media platform?

Love it. Go Daniel, you go first. I'm gonna think of my notes.

Yes, I would start figuring out what niche I want to go after first. So like what I want to talk about and I honestly, it would be something that I'm passionate about, not something that I think would be attractive to other people. Like I want to start with where I'm passionate about. And second thing, I would do like unscalable things. Like I would find the top 10 people in my space and comment on everyone and they post every single day. I would go common people in the industry, I would comment back on every one of my comments that happen. I would respond to every single dm. People underestimate this point. But like you have to consume a lot of content to create a lot of content. Taking a step back and consuming and getting ideas and documenting that is so important. So one, I would start finding niche, what niche I want to go after. Two, I would do unscalable things and then three, I would consume a bunch of content, document my thoughts on that content and then I would have a repository of A bunch of things that I can start posting on. That's how I would restart it.

That was great advice. I scribbled down four notes and I'm going to spit it back to you. And then. Lovely. I would love to hear any reaction to that. So a couple things that you mentioned. One of them is, I think, really important that a lot of people miss is a lot of people want to be. The companies want to be great on social media, but they can't actually articulate what that looks like. And so to be a consumer, I don't have any presence on TikTok right now, but I love TikTok and I feel like I could articulate if I wanted to be successful on TikTok, what type of content would I have to make for that channel? And so to be a consumer first and look at who are two or three other pages or people in your niche that you think have done a good job or just observe what people think are interesting. The other thing that you mentioned is this idea of just being everywhere and commenting on anything and connecting with people. One thing I meant to mention with the last question that you can do is I think actually using LinkedIn and outbound connecting with people that you want to see. Your content in the early days can be really powerful because a lot of people think that LinkedIn is just this business network, but it's not. It's changed into a content platform. And so one thing that I did in the early days of drift was David, the CEO and I, we had a list of our top 100 customers and their CEOs and CMOs and their LinkedIn profiles. And we would go and try to connect with every single one of them because if they accept our connection, and most likely they will, because very rarely do people just not take connections, they have then basically opted in to see our content. And so one of the reasons that my page was able to grow faster was because at the same time that I was posting things and people were following me, I was actually going out. And when you go out and follow people, you're often following what Seth Godin calls the sneezers. Those are people. Lovely's not going to just pick 10 random people in your niche. They're going to be people that are probably influential and important and might have other connections. So don't forget the power of. Even if you're just on this webinar right now and you're just browsing on LinkedIn multitasking and you see people that look interesting, try to connect with them. I Don't understand why a lot of people don't do that.

I would add a caveat to that too. Connect with people who've liked the other people that you've done. Comment like those five people. Connect with those people because they're active on LinkedIn. So if they're active on LinkedIn, they'll probably be active on your post too. A lot of people connect with these random people who never spend time on LinkedIn and they will never go like their content. Connect with active people too.

Comments is great for two reasons. One, in the early days, if you can engage with everyone, if you have three people that comment on your posts, it's great. Go say what's up to each one of them. And when you comment, don't just leave emoji reactions. I do that stuff now, but I think comments every now and then can also be an incredible source of future content. Basically, other people's content is like a prompt for you to write. A lot of people have writer's block. I don't know what I'm going to say on LinkedIn, but I'm scrolling LinkedIn and I see an interesting post from Daniel. I write a comment on that, that comment actually gets some traction. I'm going to take that and I'm going to post it on my own page in a week or two. Last thing on this before I give you the mic back. Lovely. Most important thing I think is the niche. Who do you want to follow you and what's the selfish benefit? What's the thing that they're actually interested in? Not how can you promote your business. But we talked about in the beginning with Khaled and becoming known in E commerce. What are people in that world, what are they actually going to be interested in? And what are your one or two talk tracks that you're going to post consistently about? Any follow up on that?

Yeah, I think for me what was a really good confirmation was a lot of the things that you all mentioned today. I've already started doing them over the last 30 days and we got a discovery call yesterday off of me just talking about why I doubling down on me building this consulting firm. And one of the people that I look up to, which is Felicia Hatcher, she's in the ecosystem of helping entrepreneurs, especially black and brown entrepreneur scale. She posted right back to me and I was like, oh crap. Like Felicia Hatcher actually wrote a comment on here. Somebody else saw that, she commented, they said, well if Felicia's commenting on your stuff, you must be good at what you do. And it was like, wait, I've heard about LinkedIn, I've talked about it in terms of like, the theory behind it, but actually seeing how powerful it is in the interim, with very little that I've been doing because we're hosting like this event coming down in Atlanta, I just was just like LinkedIn sales navigator. I can literally look up people in my niche, understand where they are, see what they're. And I was just like, why is everybody not using this?

Well, but like, the other thing that's so cool that you mentioned is like, this is why, like, you just have to go and do it and be on social media because. And I talked about this in the book, most people want to be like, how am I going to measure this? What's the number? What you just said, there's no spreadsheet number, ROI number, But like, you had that one comment, that one interaction, that's enough to get you to keep coming back and you already feel like, oh my gosh, this is worth it. So I'm going to do that. And that's not some perfectly quantitative thing that happened.

Yeah. So thank you all. I think that definitely for good feedback, I'm going to go continue doing it and consuming a lot more and definitely following some people that I really look up to. I think for us, we're still in that stage where we want to work with B2B companies that are literally in that half a million mark trying to get to that next level. So we're not working with big, big companies yet. But my goal is in the long term, five, ten years from now, I hope that we are, but really trying to figure out, like, what is our niche, what is our promise and our brand promise. And when I was reading the book, one of the things that I think you highlighted for me was that having the product be like, niche out when you would drift, like, you really went out the product marketers, that really gave a signal to us, like, okay, we really need to niche down. Like, what is the revenue size of these? What are the obstacles that really keep people from getting from. They're getting early traction, but they want to scale a lot more quicker. And how could we help them specifically with strategy?

And what's great about that is that doesn't mean that you can't sell to more people in the long run, but you're using that as the wedge to then go learn what works, build up a little business, then you can say, okay, cool, hey, this worked for this group. Now we're going to go copy that and go. Okay. I connected with you on LinkedIn because the other thing I was going to say is you got to post consistently, which you have been. You posted every day this week. It looks like.

Awesome.

All right, let's go. More. You're up next. Stay lovely. Bye.

Hey, Dave, two questions. The first one is I have a company page and I have a sales coaching, training program, whatever you want to call it. So I have the company page and then I have my personal. I post every day on my personal and rarely on my company page. So how do you share posts between the personal page and the company page? That's the first question. And then the second question is the coaching and training that I offer. It's for an account executive in a B2B company, but I'm essentially going after companies to have them roll that out for their teams. So should my post still be around sales advice and demo advice the way I'm doing it and then just say hey founders or hey sales managers or hey account executives. So those are two questions.

Daniel, you answer this because I want to reframe this for everybody that's listening at home. Personal page or company page and. Or can you talk about the difference, how you might use them and maybe I'm also fine if you want to talk about what you've helped do with the DGMG page and how that's benefited also.

Yes, I think if your company page and your personal page have the same audience, I would treat a company page like a personal page. You are a human and it should have a personality and it should be talking to the audience that you want to be talking to. So I would. You can cross promote some post over. I do it all the time. I help DG input some that he's posted and put it on his stuff. I think like the reason why it works for him is because he had. Those are the same audiences that are working. So if you. If those are the same audiences, yeah. Hell yeah. And also the company page is just the reason why a company page is so important is when someone goes to look up your company and they want to work with your company and it has a hundred followers versus 30,000, 40,000, 50,000 followers. It's a credibility thing. Gong has 100 something thousand. If I go look at them compared to whatever ring, DNA, whatever their competitors are, Gong is just this bigger, powerful company that everybody loves and it builds the social proof. So company pages to me is a very big social proof thing, very credibility thing, but also shows that you are an expert at that topic. On the company page, personal is what you want to be known for outside of your business. So if that's the same thing, it's okay to post the same thing. But otherwise I would expand on adding personality posts, too. Dave does this all the time. You'll sprinkle on stuff about his family, or you'll sprinkle on stuff about he's annoyed with something and stuff like that, which is different because that shows personality to him.

Changed my opinion on this. I think the company page is so valuable, so underrated, that if I was selling a B2B service or a B2B product, I would actually start with the company page and build up a whole company page first. And I'll get to the second part in a minute because I think the strategy with the company page is to be the media resource for your customer. And so I want my GGMG page to be a great resource for people in B2B marketing. I want that stuff to show up. I want people to share it. That's perfect. I also want myself, Dave, to be known for B2B marketing. But also some of the things that also I'm interested in that will help me, which I can't do on my company page because it's a company, it doesn't work, is talk about my family, talk about my life, make jokes, talk about my kids, talk about golf, whatever. And so I think you're using them the same, but they kind of each have different strengths and weaknesses, and the best strategy is to combine them. Now, if this is just you and you're in the early days of a company, I would just focus on one and really try to build one up. But you'll also quickly learn that, like, oh, once you start building your company page, why can't you just take one out of every five things and talk about that on your personal page, too?

Yeah. What I'm thinking maybe as you're speaking, is what if I take my text posts on my personal page and convert them into video? I could do a quick video and then post that as the company.

You could, but just remember that if you're just repurposing content, it's never going to catch up. It needs its own strategy if you want to actually grow that page. If you just want it to look good and look credible when people go there, fine, you can have that content there. But what's the actual strategy Right now? One of the companies that I'm working with right now, I'm pushing them to really focus on LinkedIn and LinkedIn only and use LinkedIn as the tip of their top of the funnel strategy, not personal pages. Also use the personal pages but mainly focus on the company because I think the opportunity is the company page can become the number one resource for their icp. In the same way that if you're in marketing, you might subscribe to Marketing Brew newsletter or something like that. And then while you do that, you can then be the founder or CEO and talk about stuff on your own page. I would be careful going down the slope of just repurposing content because I would almost guarantee that three months from now you'd be in a similar spot with engagement on that page.

What I would also consider is both those two things are different top of funnel contents with two different things. One's top of funnel for your business and one's top of funnel for yourself. The way I would think about it is that original posts on your LinkedIn company page could be repurposed, but they should be repurposed on other channels down the line. That's your number one source of creating and then down the line your personal will be that you can sprinkle some of your stuff. But I think like Dave said, they have to have two separate strategies and purposes. What you're going to do for both of them. They're both two different entities but they do work well at cross promoting each other to build each other out.

Yeah, that's my struggle now because my personal profile has a little over 11,000 followers and have pretty good traction. If I switch gears and start focusing on, I don't know, it's something I got to think about.

Yeah, you got to make some trade offs and I think the only way it's going to grow is by being very specific and focusing it. Okay, there's one quick question in chat about do LinkedIn company pages get the same reach as personal pages? Yes, they do. I think the discrepancy in followers is what changes that. So I have more followers on my personal page and so that's going to get more reach than the stuff that I'm posting on my company page. But I've definitely seen things go very viral from company pages. Okay, let's go to Arvind and then I want to get to Matt's question in chat and then we'll go to Andrew. Go ahead Arvind.

Hey, thanks Dave and Danielle, great conversation. So similar question to someone who'd asked just now. I'm in very early stages of my LinkedIn journey. About three and a half thousand connections. I don't have a product to sell, but in the traditional sense, I am the product. So the way I'm Looking to use LinkedIn is just to network and be top of the mind within my connection group as a leader in marketing and branding. So for someone with that kind of a path at this stage, how do you recommend I play this game?

First of all, I love that you don't have a product. Like, I'm all for building community first and then figuring out what the product is later. Just keep doing what you're doing, focus on what you want to be great for, and then something will fall into line for that. For me, marketing Millennials came from after eight months of me posting about myself and I was like, oh, I need to post a podcast, do a podcast to do more content because I want to connect with more people. And then marketing Millennials became a product, but it became a product after I built an audience and that market Millennials wouldn't be as successful as it is now as a company page if I didn't build an audience up on Daniel Murray's personal page. So I think what I suggest is just keep doing it and then you'll find something. It happens. Because the beauty of social media is unquantifiable. Things that people don't see. The DMs that come through, the people who comment, the connections you make. So unquantifiable that in a year from now people will be like, oh, that's the branding guy. Maybe I need help on branding. I should reach out to them and then you might have a business right there. That's how easy it could come. So I would stick with what you do.

And by the way, let's say you did start a product right now like marketingmillennials.com and you created a 10 week course for millennial marketers about how to improve ACT. It's going to sell way more than it would have two years ago if you started that first and now you can post that once and basically feed your whole strategy that way. Okay, we got a lot of good question. I want to keep going. Arvind, thank you. All right, I'm going to go to this one for Matt and then Brad. I see your question. I want to get to that also. And okay, Matt and then Andrew, we'll tag you in. What about the transition from industries? How do you handle hopping to a new industry and establishing your expertise? Daniel, for instance, going from primarily home improvement home services with Service Titan to B2B SaaS like Clearbit. Do you start from scratch Connect with new people. What's the strategy?

I don't even think about the company I'm working for. I just think about my one goal of what I want to be known for is helping marketers that are middle stage in their career learn marketing easier. And that's the only goal I figure out. I don't care what company I work.

For, which is why it works.

I don't care about people in B2B SaaS. I didn't care about people in home services. But on the flip side, if I was the founder of the company, there'll be a different strategy. If I was the founder of the company and I really wanted to show that I'm an expert at services industry and I came from a plumbing background, first of all, I probably wouldn't be on LinkedIn because plumbers aren't on LinkedIn, they're on Facebook. If you ever look at the plumbing industry, they chill on Facebook. But I would create an audience there and build a Facebook group there. So another thing is sometimes LinkedIn isn't the best platform. It is for most a lot of audiences, but sometimes it's not because your audience is not hanging out on there.

You have two lives. I think you're great at social media and you figured this out. But it's not like Clearbit hired you to be the face of their social media. You're doing a very different role for them. You focused on speaking to marketers regardless of what company you're at. And that's the perfect combination. If you take away only one thing from that, I would go back to your businesses and question if we sell to event marketers, how can we be the page for event marketers? Whether you work at X company, Y company or Z company. If we sell to golfers, how can we be the page for golfers? That's ultimately the most important first step in building an audience on social media. And so often when you get inside of a company though, that falls apart because demand gen teams telling you you got to promote this content. Teams tell me you got to promote this completely separate.

And just another point when they say about promote this. If you think about social media as a whole, LinkedIn doesn't want you to leave LinkedIn. Twitter doesn't want you to leave Twitter. So if you're posting links and stuff, that's why they don't work. They don't want you to leave the platform. It's okay to do it sometimes and you can be more strategic about it, but you have to have built a lot of Social media comes down to just the book influence. Dave talks about a lot. It's just reciprocity you got to give for people to want to give something in return and join your webinar or join something and that's through helping them in some way. And if you keep on posting about yourself, you just seem like someone who's talking a one way speech where social media is a conversation. I think of it as like a big networking event that I'm just chilling with a bunch of homies on social media and I'm talking to them. Like when I'm writing a post, I'm thinking about who I'm talking to that one person and if it reached more than one person, cool. But I'm talking to that one person. And some people who say to me, oh, that's simple advice. Yeah, maybe it'd be simple advice, but that's because I wasn't talking to you, homie. I was talking to that person I wanted to reach. So that's why I think sometimes you just have to think of it one way. If you influence one person in your post, you've done a great job.

I have a bunch of friends that are on a text chain and they're all like, dave, we don't care about your book. And I'm like, right, the book's not for you. The book is not for the four of you idiots. And that's not the audience for it. It's in B2B marketing. You're a firefighter, you're an accountant. This is not a book for you. Let's go to Andrew, because I said I would go to Andrew. Thanks, Dave. Can we talk a little bit about the psychology of getting CEOs and subject matter experts to commit? The reason I ask is I have seven or eight posts when I help CEOs do this. And I always do this because they have a higher likelihood, these posts of getting reactions and maybe even getting some inbound. It basically gets them to see the light and commit like, oh, this works. Can we talk a little bit more about things to get those folks to commit?

Dave, this is your expertise right here.

I know you literally just wrote a book on it. I'm just teeing this up for you. So it's hard because I didn't really put this in the book. But one thing that I really believe is if you're in marketing and the CEO is kind of posting every now and then as the marketer, if I'm trying to help the company grow, I might actually hop in and ghostwrite stuff for them and make it happen and then force it to be a thing that jumps off. And then they're like, whoa, this channel started to blow up. I'm actually going to spend time here. And so I think, can you work together? The other thing is, could you have a conversation and can you reinforce of those seven or eight, nine things that you've done that start happening consistently? Can you show them interesting people that have commented, Lovely. Mentioned before, someone really influential in her industry commented, can you reinforce the results of this? I also think it has to become a change. And it's like, this is something that I'm going to do a couple times a week or every day for however long I run this company because I believe that this is an important strategy. It's not going to be like, I'll dabble for a month and then I won't do it. So all CEOs do this, by the way. It's very annoying, but I understand. And you have to find a way to make it easy. And that could mean you post three, and I'm going to post three. That could mean you put a calendar invite every week. The other thing I would do is I would just try to batch them all, which is, what if you sit down for. Could you get 30 minutes with the CEO every week or every two weeks and could you write 20 posts together and then you actually help schedule and put them out there and could you batch, get it done? That's how Ben at Privy, for example, that's how he did a daily five minute podcast. He didn't actually do a daily five minute podcast. He would every two weeks block 30 minutes on his calendar and hammer out a bunch of episodes. Could you take that same approach to social media? And could you keep a backlog of topics for this person and start to, like, feed them things? And like, I'd always be pushing David Cancel at Drift, like, hey, you should post more about this. This works really well. And he's like, cool, tell me what to say. And I would help. And then he would take it and make it his own. And that was a great combination. Right on. Yeah. It's usually a thing where I'll take 45 minutes and tell them, hey, I'm going to ask you questions. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And then cut that up into different pieces of content. But I think, yeah, just any edge is always helpful in getting folks to commit for a long term. A lot of times I find folks are like, oh, we sell boring software, things like that. I was like, dude, accountants do this on LinkedIn? Yeah, I mean, you can do it too. That's the whole point. That's the whole why I wrote founder brand because the whole point of founder brand is like founders are I think the most interesting people to be putting out content and so don't talk about your product ever. You're in the meeting with investors, advisors, customers, partners. You had to hire somebody today. You had to fire somebody today. There was this big thing that happened inside your company and you also should be some expert in some niche because why would you start a company about. Nobody's just going to start that company for fun. There's probably some problem. They have some deep expertise there. So that's how I would do it. Hey Brad, if you're listening, any chance you can come on and ask this question? You can say no, but I see your question. I want to make sure. Let me tag you in. Okay, go ahead. Thanks, Andrew. Good luck out there and I appreciate you're one of the most valuable TGMG Facebook group commenters and I appreciate you. Thank you.

Thanks for having me on. So yeah, I'm in, I guess a position in early stage company where actually the founders are engineers. So a lot of this messaging and social is an afterthought. Right. But we're looking to build the founder brand, but we got to probably build the company page too. My question is more so I guess from everything that I'm reading in the book, it's great. By the way, it seems way easier to build the person's profile. The page seems to have some limitations and specifically one thing that doesn't replicate is that you can go out and connect to a bunch of people that are your icp. You can start sharing content, driving awareness. That's great. The company page is, is kind of different. Not like you can get people to necessarily make a connection to your company page. How are we getting around that? Obviously you can share links on your homepage.

You can though, they're just different strategies. So I think you're totally right. And the reason that founder brand is a thing is because I think it's way easier to start with the CEO, the founder, they have the expertise. But you're saying how do you make the company page a thing?

Yeah, exactly. Basically getting people to follow it. So we sell to product managers who are building analytics for customer facing analytics.

Yeah, perfect. LinkedIn would be perfect. Fred, there's millions of product managers on LinkedIn and so my strategy would just be like for the founders page, let's talk more about personal Brand stuff. Let's talk more about their story. Let's talk more about point of view, thought leadership. The way I would try to grow the company page, Daniel, take it from here is like be the number one page. How do you be a great page for product managers to follow on LinkedIn that has nothing to do with stuff that your founder's saying. I actually think this is the perfect combination because then you're not trying to think of how do we just replicate content across. It's like founder's going to go talk about their story, point of view, thought leadership, industry stuff. Company page is going to be about really truly the buyer. Go, Daniel.

Yeah, I mean 100% be the best page for product managers. And don't think of it as. You don't have to think of niche for this. You've already niched down to product managers. So just do things for like product managers make things that are relevant to them. Make things they feel on a day to day basis. It doesn't always have to be like this education reason why memes and stuff work. I don't think it should be in every single post but I think it works because it's relatable, it's trendy, it's culture, it's how someone feels like if someone sees say product managers had a hard day or something like that and there was a funny meme of something relevant in culture today. Product managers could relate to that and be like, oh, I feel that deeply. That's what I would do. Like I would just post educational stuff, fun stuff. But obviously like I would also figure out what the tone of voice and personality of the company you're trying to like. Who is this person behind this company?

Somebody sent me this company recently. Like these haven't really taken off yet, but I think they will over time. Catalysts. Their Persona is customer success. This is a perfect example of something to post. They're speaking to customer success people.

So as more of a content strategy, right? But I guess with a person you can complement content strategy with adding more connections. I guess that thing I was wondering how can you actually promote the page more? I completely understand the content strategy. Is it build it and they will come.

I mean no, because the way you promote the pages, the audience is already on LinkedIn. The way you'll grow your LinkedIn page is not by telling people on your email list to go follow. Now you should do that. You can do that. Hey, go check out the page. But that's why to me, that's why you're on LinkedIn in the first place because the audience of millions of eyeballs is already there. And what's going to show it to more people is by posting content that gets engagement. And so likes and comments are going to show that content to more people. So it's kind of like this self fulfilling prophecy. But yeah, if you want to give a jump start to your page. When we started focusing on the DGMG page, I think I did probably post like, hey, I'm starting to post more from the DGMG page. If you haven't already, go follow it. But I don't think that needs to be like an ongoing promotion strategy because ultimately now the way I get more followers on LinkedIn is by posting more content. Right. It's not about promoting that. I'm on LinkedIn elsewhere.

Yeah. And you also could go, there's like a follower thing. You can find people that are product managers and say like request them to follow the page. You get like 100amonth. You could do that. And then also like, like if you have really like product fans that are product managers that are raving fans of your company, it doesn't hurt to be like, reach out, be like, hey, I'm starting to post more educational stuff and more fun stuff about product managers on this page. Like I would love to get your feedback on. Like what do you think about it? And if you can give it a follow would appreciate it and like get more people in your audience to follow it. Like that's like the scrappy way to do it at the beginning. And then eventually like once more and more product managers start liking your stuff, it will start broadening you to more and more product managers.

Everybody's got to wrap up. But I want to just finish with one last thought and this was great. Daniel, thank you so much. Everybody's questions, I'm going to grab this recording. People will ask a lot of questions about this is we could do more like this. One thing that drives me nuts lately is and I did this at drift, but five, six years ago, your company LinkedIn strategy could be like, we're going to ask everybody to like and comment on this post. But to me that's not an effective company LinkedIn social media strategy anymore. I think the way to win is now through that was back when Organic Reach was going insane. It was literally just a volume game. And so if we could get a bunch of people on LinkedIn at our company to come in our posts, the reach of that post was going to skyrocket. But now one of my biggest Pet peeves is that people take this LinkedIn advice and they say, yeah, I want my whole company to be posting on social media. And what happens is Daniel's the CEO and Daniel writes a post and then everyone on the company writes, awesome. Nice. Totally agree. Great. That just looks gimmicky, corny and not authentic to me. Where I would much rather not have everybody in my company post. And by the way, the worst content you can post when people feel like my company forces me to post on LinkedIn. I shared an example the other day in the DGMG community of a sales rep at Goldcast who posted two things that he thinks a lot of customers make a mistake. And so how can people, the people that are working hard in your company who are in and around this icp, how can they become experts and share their own voice? And so often there's at least one person in marketing who wants to do that, at least one person in sales, and then maybe the founder. So you already have three. I'd much rather focus on leading through quality with the personal brands and the people at your company. Make them be experts in your industry and then your company will grow because, wow, I see that there's four or five people at Gong that have relevant things to say about sales or whatever on LinkedIn. That works. It's not about just asking everyone to comment on your stuff.

I would also add one thing. Sometimes a play doesn't have to be get more inbound leads for people in your company posting. If you have great people in your company posting, it's a very good way to recruit great talent to your business. For example, at service time, people would just come in in the funnel and be like, oh, I see Daniel Murray posting on LinkedIn all the time. This seems like a cool company to work for. Just because I was posting every single day.

And do you think that that would have ever happened if you just only posted about service titan product stuff? Never.

They wanted to join the marketing team because they're like, oh, I want to work with someone who's like Daniel on LinkedIn. This is not a braggy thing. I think that's what happened. I bet you Dave got a bunch of people who wanted to work on his marketing team at Drift because he posted on Drip and Drift got a lot of of inbound liens. But I bet you a lot of people were like, great talent, were like, I want to come to Drift or I want to come to Privy because Dave, I respect Dave as a leader because he's sharing his expertise online.

Cool. Okay, this is great. Thank you everybody. I'm going to jump. I got to get a drink of water between my next call. Daniel, I appreciate you. I'll probably talk to you in Slack in a minute or two, but thanks. See you all later. My recommendation would be for the next week, don't think about your product. Don't think about your business. Think about how can you be the number one resource for the people you're trying to sell to and try to be more like a meme or content account that you would actually follow than like, I'm a LinkedIn company page and I'm going to post a bunch of things about my product and links and hashtags and all that nonsense. Okay, bye. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of the Exit 5 podcast. If you're in B2B marketing and you want to your career, you should also go and check out everything that we have over@exit5.com we've got articles, we've got videos, we've got templates. Plus we have a community. A community of over 4000 B2B marketing pros. Whether you're deep in your career and want to connect with your peers or just starting up and you want a place to go where you can see what people are talking about, get smarter about B2B marketing in your own time to grow your career and help grow your company. Go and check it out. It's Exit five. You can get on the email list there, you can join the community. There's 4,000 marketers in the community. We have a job board. We're always adding new stuff. It's really becoming the number one place you can go if you want to grow your career and learn more about B2B marketing outside of what you're doing inside of your company every day. So check it out. Exit5.com and I also want to make sure I give a shout out to my friends at Hatch. That's Hatch fm. They produce this podcast. It sounds amazing because of the work that they do. And they work with B2B companies just like yours. They offer unlimited podcast editing and strategy for businesses. You can get unlimited podcast setting and on demand strategy for a low monthly cost. All you gotta do is just upload your episode and they take care of the rest. Go and check them out. It's Hatch fm.

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