Revolutionary Real Estate Podcast

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Let's get this up and going. Looks live to me. Okay. Hi, everyone. Dax here from Hera Property. It's going to be a great day today. We've got an amazing guy on to talk all things not selling real estate. David's a property marketing strategist who's reinvented the way that homes are marketed and transacted. I've been really looking forward to having a chat to him. And through his business, Revolutionary Real Estate, he helps vendors easily pocket an extra 50k plus more than they could through a real estate agent or through private sales. So, you know, that's a big claim. We want to delve into a lot of that. He's also written a book called Real Estate Agents Don't Sell Homes, and he challenges home sellers to go through, you know, to let go of generational conditioning and false beliefs that surround about the selling of a home. And as you know, you know, Australia is all about land and owning your, your, your pocket in Australia. And, you know, he's out there to achieve, you know, better results for you. And so, you know, I really connected with David. I thought I'd bring him on the show and we can have a good chat to him about where he's at, where he's going and all that sort of stuff. So, David, welcome to Hera Property podcast.

Thank you, Dax, it's a pleasure. Thank you for having me on.

You're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah, it was great to chat to you last week and it was really good to connect and I thought since we resonated well with each other, I wanted to get you on. And the investors on our show are really, you know, mainly about growing their wealth through property. And, you know, one of our ethos is, you know, never sell or if they have to sell, you know, we want to go through a couple of property cycles and things like that before they do. So 10 to 15 years sort of timeframe. But let's start off with, you know, tell. Tell us something interesting about yourself that people don't know about you.

Well, look, I'm a property marketing nerd, so this takes up most of my day. It's what I love doing. I stumbled across it by accident. You know, I was the first guinea pig of this, this method, like I think most of our personal discoveries in life are. And look, to be honest with you, I don't think I'm that interesting. I just, I just love what I do. I love sharing what I know and lifting the veil, which I think there's a Very thick veil covering the eyes of most people when it comes to this aspect of property anyway. And I find it fascinating that despite property being a national sport in Australia, how little people know about the transaction of actually selling if they ever need to, for whatever reason.

Yeah, it's a really interesting topic. You know, I've stayed right away from selling properties. We like to buy them and manage them and stuff like that and grow people's wealth. And you know, it really deterred me, you know, because when I got into the industry, you know, real estate agents are clumped with used car salesmen, you know, bank managers and the like. Why do you think that, you know, real estate agents are so disliked in Australia at the moment.

Look, that's been the case for decades, literally. And if you look at Roy Morgan polling going back, you know, literally decades, listed agents have been in the bottom three of the least trusted professions. And it's not because of particular individuals. There are some excellent real estate agents who are really nice, good people, but they're working in a broken industry. And when you're working in a broken industry, there are pressures on you to act and behave in a certain way. And they are not good pressures. And also the, and we can get into this in whatever detail you want. The commission based or the percentage based commission, which I think should be illegal personally, but this is also driving a lot of this behavior, I think in the industry.

And are you saying that because, you know, based on a commission on a million dollars, you know, $100,000 doesn't give them that much money in their pocket. You know, they can drop 10, 20, 30k and still make a decent amount of money, but it can lose you, you know, like you said, 50,000 plus.

Exactly. So most of us have been conditioned to believe that a commission based incentive, commission based, sorry, a percentage based commission incentivizes agents to achieve the highest sale price. It's not the case and it's been scientifically proven not to be the case by several studies. And the main reason is that, you know, at two and a half percent commission, it only costs an agent, you know, $1,000 to undersell your home by $40,000 and you know, an extra thousand dollars to an agent, you know, when they're making $20,000 is not a great deal, but to you, 40,000, it's a big deal.

Yeah, it's huge. That's huge. That's like a kitchen. Bathroom. Kitchen renovation. Bathroom renovation. It adds up, you know, adds up to another deposit for your next investment home or next property. So absolutely, we want to help them get further along where I think that, you know, real estate agents are really focused on their sale. I know you went into that in your book a fair bit around, you know, you know, real estate agents, you know, and in your own words, you know, what does the phrase a real estate agent is not selling your property?

Well, real estate agents, you know, they don't sell properties. And that's actually the title of my book. You know, real estate agents don't sell homes. It's a truth. They don't. They do. They are great salespeople. A good agent is a great salesperson. They sell two things. One of them is themselves to get the listing.

Because I see them on boards and I see them on advertising, and it's like, I don't want to see their face. I want to see the property.

Exactly.

I don't get it.

Exactly, exactly. So the first thing they sell is themselves to get the listing. And the second one is horrendously expensive marketing packages, often totally unnecessary in the expense that they go to.

Now, I want to stop you there. Are they marketing packages or are they advertising packages?

Well, they call it marketing packages. And look, you can slice and dice it in all different kinds of ways. I think most of them just stop at advertising. But advertising is just a very, very small piece of what the marketing, you know, is, or marketing should be. You know, marketing starts well before you even start talking to an agent or even selecting your agent. You know, it starts in how. How your house looks and how you prepare it for sale. That's where marketing starts. Starts with you identifying who the potential buyer for this home could be or potential buyers, you know, groups of buyers. I think that's where marketing starts.

Okay. And from. From that point of view, we've got. I know you talked a little bit about in your book around, you know, the different difference between an open house and a private inspection. I really wanted to delve into that because, you know, open houses seem to be, you know, the thing, you know, and I find that, you know, so opening your house up and having multiple couples going through. I know one of our renovations down in Parkdale, we did this eco solar, passive solar house. And it was really interesting to set up a little webcam. Maybe I shouldn't be saying this, but a little webcam. The top corner. And my wife and I sat at a coffee shop and watched all the people go through. And it was a bit. Was a bit. I don't know, the volume of people coming through was confronting. But, you know, we got a fair bit of feedback just listening to them. So, yes. Tell me, tell me why you like private inspections compared to opens.

Yeah, look, a private inspection. For that to happen, a person needs to pick up the phone and ask for that inspection. A person who picks up the phone, who goes to the trouble and effort of picking up the phone in this day and age where people want to be hiding behind their digital bushes for as long as they can, is a person who is a better prospect. They qualify themselves as a more interested prospect for reaching out to ask for that inspection. It is a higher caliber prospect, and preferably, that's the kind of person you want inside the home. The people who happen to stumble into an open home because they saw the flags and flyers and the circus outside are the people who are, you know, live across the road, down the street, you know, happen to be driving by. They have absolutely no intention of buying that property. They're just there for a sticky beak and a tie kick.

Wouldn't they also be. I mean, I know, you know, some of them would be interested in finding out what it's worth and talking to the real estate agent about, well, if this gets a good price, maybe you could sell mine, too.

And that's the point of agents holding open homes that way. They are taught that this is the best way to generate their next prospect because it leads to conversations such as, do you need to sell to buy or are you looking at potentially selling? Or when someone asks, oh, what do you think this will sell for? You know, that's a catalyst for the conversation for the agent to, you know, suss out, you know, whether this person could be a prospective seller.

So, David, just get. Let me just reverse back there. So you're telling me open houses are more for lead generation for the real estate agent to get another listing than with the locals.

Yes.

Around the area than selling your property.

Yes. Agents will tell you, they will not tell you this. They will tell you that it's to generate competition. Okay? All agents tell you that. But there's competition and there's competition. The competition created by Ty Kickers and Sticky Beaks is not really competition. And people who have no intention of buying that property need to justify to themselves why they are there. Okay? And when they are there in pairs, you know, husband and wife, they're going to be pointing out all the reasons why they'll never buy the property, and they're going to be picking out all the flaws that your ideal buyer, who may be in that room, would never have even picked up because they just fell in love with the look and feel of the property. But all of a sudden, now they're overhearing this chatter from someone who was never going to buy the place anyway.

That's me. I did that. Well, actually, when I go look to buy at something, I'll go around and I'm quite vocal at. Oh, look at that. Oh, the foundations don't. Well, yeah, that looks like a leak in that roof. And. Because I want to buy it at a cheaper price.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's. And, you know, I don't blame you for that. Good on you. But when your ideal buyer is within earshot, you have no control over what they're hearing from tire kickers and sticky beaks. And that's another reason why, you know, open homes, the traditional way they're held, are not the best way to go. I'm not totally against them, but I think there's a better way of holding them without the circus and the fanfare and the flyers.

Yeah, good. Okay. And I guess that sort of leads me into, you know, we're going through the sort of campaign cycle of, you know, the four weeks and all that sort of stuff that real estate say, you know, on the lead up to, you know, usually an auction here in Melbourne sort of thing, and some areas in Australia just do, you know, just the price on the market. You know, a lot of real estate agents will say that they're really great negotiators, you know, and so what's your, what's your thoughts around that? That, you know, they really get you the best price other than, you know, the commission based. I want to talk about what's the better pay structure there. But, yeah, tell me, tell me a bit about what you think about their negotiation skills and how that fits in to the whole market.

Well, look, firstly, they're not taught to negotiate when they get their ticket. Okay. They are just people. It's one of the easiest industries to join. Very hard industry to stick with, but easiest to join. So there's no training on negotiation other than what's provided by the franchise, the system that they're part of. But doesn't matter how good a negotiator they are, don't forget that they have a disincentive to negotiate well because their incentive is to sell quickly and not to achieve the high sell price. An extra thousand dollars, which will be split with the franchise is not much of an incentive to negotiate for them. And when you lack that incentive, the outcome is going to be compromised.

Yeah. So it's more of, you know, if you are going to go down that path, you really want to make sure that they're that ethical type of investing set by agent to help you do that. And I guess, you know, that sort of leads me into where, where you've come into this. So tell me a little bit about your backstory. And I know you're in the finance industry. How did you get the, how did you end up here and what sort of epiphany did you have to go? Oh my God. You know, I know you like helping people sell property and I like that sell a pot, you know, selling advocacy sort of stuff and the marketing strategy stuff. What, what, what, what, what was the brain, the light bulb moment that you had to go, yeah, I'm going to break the mold because I love disruption, as clients know. Yeah, tell me in that space.

Yeah, yeah, I'll get into that. But firstly, I just picked up on what you said before. Helping people sell properties. I like to think of it as helping people make their homes viable.

Viable.

I like it because you can't sell a property, we can dissect that later, but your home can only become viable. And the way I came across this is my last corporate role was as a senior credit risk analyst for a big finance company financing fleets of trucks and earth moving equipment. But that was never my passion and property was my passion. My wife and I became more actively involved in it. We started renovating and then flipping all that kind of stuff. And our very first project was a complete disaster like most people's first projects are. And you know, we did a lot of research, six months worth of research. So we bought well, but we ended up over capitalizing and we just spent too much on the first one. And we actually, if we were to sell in traditional way, we would have made a lot. And so out of sheer desperation, we were forced to consider all kinds of alternatives. And selling privately was one of them, by the way. I don't recommend that to anyone. And so that's what we did. We jumped head in. The only reason we decided to do it was because through that six months worth of research, initially we met just about all the local agents. You know, we got to know the industry quite well. And anyway, we took a gamble and we made a lot of mistakes along the way, but we ended up getting out of it without a loss. And so we avoided that 15, 20 grand loss by doing it this way. We could have ended up with more. But let's not get into that. We got it out better than we thought we would have. And then when family and friends started asking us, you know, what did you do? How'd you do it? Can you, you know, can you guide us through the process? When we started doing that, we refined what we did, got much, much better at it. And then after the fourth property, I think it was, we realized that, hang on, we weren't selling any of these properties. We were marketing them, but they were being bought. People just put their hand up saying, you know, I want it. And we didn't have to talk anyone into it, didn't have to convince anyone to buy it. And so that's how this epiphany started for me. And we thought, well, if family and friends are benefiting from this and they're pocketing 30, 40, 50 grand more than they would have otherwise, surely there's got to be more people interested in that kind of outcome.

I like it because when you were talking about it, we buy a lot of investment properties and pretty much all of them are unseen. They're usually a piece of dirt that they're buying. And I'll fly up to Queensland or Adelaide and I'll actually, I've got film of, hey, here is your dirt, you know. But what they bought is the feasibility study that shows that there's putting money in their pocket every month after all expenses. And this is what it looks like. And there's a plan and all that sort of stuff. And like you said, it, they buy, I'm not selling it. The numbers speak for itself, what they're looking for. And. Or you do. I don't have to go, oh, look, it's got double air conditioning. It's got this, it's got family room and. Or, you know, oh, my God, you know, and so. And I know even for myself, buying the family homes that we have in the past and we've done Renault and Flips and stuff like that to increase our wealth over time. What I don't even. The real estate agent, you don't really listen to. You look at what it is and what it could become if I got it as a project.

You know, look, if you need to sell anything, your marketing sucks. Simple as that. Simple as that. Because it's really your marketing that should be making people put their hand up saying, I want to buy. You know, what's the next step? What do I do? And if you can't achieve that, then you haven't done a good enough job and you don't need to sell. You don't need to have a silver tongue. You Know, to sell, to sell property.

And that's, it's an amazing thing. I think, you know, let's dive into the marketing because I love marketing. I love, you know, finding, finding the right people to buy the right products and it's fit for them. It's not, you're not building something and then trying to convince someone this is what you need. They've got an idea in their mind of what they want you present. They've got, you've got to build a bridge from them knowing what they want to them seeing your product that fits that and it happens. With your marketing strategy, can you delve a little bit deeper into that and you know, maybe top tips for people out there that'd be interested in selling like you?

Yeah, look, it's obviously different when you're dealing a new product because when you're a developer, for instance, you know, you can gauge the pulse of the market before you develop the product. So you're giving the market already what it's looking for. But when you're dealing in an existing product that could be decades old, you know, you face a different challenge because tastes have, have evolved and changed over that time. So first you need to identify who your ideal buyer or buyers could be for this property and then, you know, make the relevant changes to that property, you know, to make it more viable. So look, for me, it's a five step process. All five steps start with a P. Preparation, presentation, pricing, promotion, and parlaying. And parlaying is the communication piece that happens with prospective buyers from the very first to the very last word. So it includes negotiation. But you know, with preparation you need to. It basically addresses all the flaws and faults in the property, especially when you're looking at an older one. Because when people come to a property and they start identifying all these faults like you were pointing out before, the next question they will have in their mind is, what else is wrong with this home? Yes. And when they're asking that question, it's very difficult to become emotionally engaged with the property, which is the next step, which is preparation. So preparation. Sorry for presentation. Presentation addresses the emotional attachment that people should have to the property. To get people emotionally attached, you need to get to that, get to them through their senses of sight, sound, smell and touch. So when, when you're presenting any property, you know, you need to bombard their senses from all directions so that at the end people shouldn't be able to identify why they want the property. They just know that they want to continue owning. The feeling of being inside it got it.

Interesting.

I like that. And there are various ways to achieve that, but that's the focus of presentation. That was the second step on the.

Presentation side of things. I know we talked about this the other week because you were sort of saying the owner should do the inspections. Now, I always thought that it was, it's a good thing to separate the buyer from the seller, you know, because, you know, there could be conflict and all this sort of stuff. But tell me, tell me about that strategy because I felt that was really interesting that, you know, I'm guessing private appointment is, is a better way to go. Open the door. Hi. This is my home.

Yeah, look, I, I agree that there should be separation, a degree of separation when it comes to negotiation, because that can be. Yeah, that's, that's among the last P's. So. So there is separation there, and there should be, and there is with this method as well. But I'm a very, very strong believer and I've seen far too much evidence for this that the owner of the home should open the door all the time. No exceptions. Now, this happens in England. This is how homes are sold. Doesn't matter what, what agent you use. This is what they do in England. Australians seem to be the only people who get hung up about this.

Hang on, you're saying the English still get a real estate agent, but on Saturday the real estate agents get the owners to open the house?

Correct. Wow.

Okay, cool. I'm open. Tell me more.

So this is the dumb thing in the uk. Now, the reasons why I believe that should be the case is, well, firstly, when you've got an agent representing you, right, the agent's opening the door, you become a faceless entity to the buyers. Okay. As a seller, they don't see you, they don't know you, and therefore they don't care about you. And why should they? They just want the most for their money. But what that does is it makes the transaction far more adversarial and win, lose in nature.

Okay, I want to get the cheapest for this thing.

Exactly. People won't hesitate to give you cheeky lowball offers. Try and get, try and take advantage of you. Be more demanding, be less conciliatory. And that does not create fertile ground for fruitful negotiations. What does? That is when there is connection and rapport between two blood and flesh human beings, a buyer and a seller. When they can see that you're, you know, you're perceived equal to them, that makes it far more difficult for a buyer to try and take Advantage usually to be more demanding, to be less conciliatory. The whole nature of the transaction becomes more collaborative and win win. And that is what lays fertile ground for fruitful negotiations at the end. So that's one reason. The other reason sort of built on this. And I get this feedback from all the people I've helped so far. When they open the door to their prospective buyers, initially people are surprised because they expect to see an agent, a.

Nice suit, all dressed up, ready to go.

But it's a pleasant surprise. Okay. And people actually breathe a sigh of relief for not having to deal with an agent. And as a result of that, they let their guard down, they drop their guard and they open up to you as another blood and flesh human being and they disclose things to, to you about themselves that they would never disclose to any real estate agent. And that information can be really useful to put together a win, win, win, win outcome. And that, that is where the goal is.

I love the win win because that's where we, that's, that's the main goal for buying investment properties. We all win. Yeah, I get a fee, builder gets to build the property. We've got beautiful tenants moving in. We've got investors that grow their wealth. Everyone's winning, so.

Exactly.

And that's why we didn't have a sales arm because it's that win loss, it's competitive fight. I want the most amount, they want the least amount. Let's just battle it out and see where you know, and I've got it. They do those tactics where they've got two buyers and they face them off each other and it's, oh man, that does my head in. And I guess that gets me on to auctions now. I've, you know, as a buyer's agent, I've bought, you know, bought a lot of options. I've dressed up in the three piece suit I don't look at now these days, but hot, nice, nice hair, big glasses. I stand against the fence and you know, put the last couple of big highest bids in and win, you know, a high pressure. I've been on the other side of the fence where, you know, the, the it's going up and then it slows down and they come in and they, they have a go at me like, come on, just drop your reserve down a bit, you know, you know, we'll get it closed. And you know, it's a real stressful environment. But it seems like especially in Victoria, they love the game, they love that, you know, put that, put that bid in and stuff like that. But I know you're talking about, you know, that's, that's probably not the best way to get the best amount of money for your property. Can you, can you delve into a little bit more around that? And what.

Oh, my gosh, there are so many reasons. I mean, this, this is a separate conversation.

Have I opened a can of worms?

Oh, you have. You really have.

Maybe just give me your top two or three reasons why you wouldn't go that way.

Okay, the top one. How would a game of poke look like if everyone saw everyone else's hand?

Yeah, terrible.

Absolutely. It's what happens at an auction. You're seeing everyone else's hand. And to win, you just need to be a small increment above this. So let me give you. And there are many other reasons not to have an auction, but the main one is, let's say three people fall in love with the home, they're head over heels. But everybody has a budget. Nobody goes to an auction with a bottomless pit of money, even if it's from friends, family, whatever. Let's say it's a million dollar home. For using a round number. First family has a cap of budget of 950. Second family has a budget of a million. And third one has a budget of 1 million 50. Auction starts, that's at 900, reaches 950. First couple's out reaches a million. Second couple reaches their budget. You know, they can't go any more than that. So what just sits there?

Come on, come on. $1,000 more. Come on, you can do it.

What does the third couple have to pay to own the property?

Dollar more.

Yeah, let's say five grand more. Whereas they were willing and able to pay another, another 45 grand more. So the seller loses out on 45 grand. Now that's just a theoretical example.

No, no, no. Look, as a buyer's agent, I do this a lot. So, you know, I bought a big house in Richmond not too long ago, and the reserve, it's the biggest one I've ever bought. And I was in there with the client and he said, oh, you know, My budget is $3.8 million. And I was like, I think the one before that was 2.6 was the highest I've ever bought. I'm like, can I, I need to write that down. Because that's, that's a really big number. I wrote it down, put in my top pocket. Because I'm thinking in the heat of the battle, I don't want to go, I Don't want to go over that. And I got it for 3.48 mm. Made him, made him, you know, like $400,000.

Yeah, yeah. And look, when people, when people rave on about auctions, they focus on the reserve price. Okay, how much above reserve he got? Oh, my God. He got, you know, hundreds of thousands above reserve. People, don't people forget that the reserve is the, is the number that no vendor should even be thinking about. It's the pits number. It's, it's the absolute terrible worst case scenario you could possibly imagine. Now why compare the outcome to that, something that is, that should not even be talked about, spoken about.

Because the property, the price the property's worth at that current moment is what the person who can buy it for the most is willing to pay for it, not what the vendor is happy with. And anything over, that's cream. That's not right.

That's not right. It's not cream. You should have gotten that in the first place. You should have always gotten that. And when everyone knows what your bid is, it's just common sense. You think, you know, if you know what other person's bidding. Plus, you know, at auction, no one, not everyone turns up at auction. Not everyone's auction ready. There could be buyers out there who would have been really interested, putting a bloody good offer more than anyone at the auction with some conditions.

Yep, I've done that before. I've seen a place, it's going to go to auction a week later. I'm like, I can't get a building inspection done. I can't, you know, I don't want to risk doing that. It's an older property. I'd want to do an extension on it or reno and I've just, I'm out. But it was in my budget.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You limit, you limit your buyers with an auction.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, great. So, David, I'm loving this conversation. It's really, really enjoying it. So, so you've got, you went, you did a couple of flips and Renault's, you learned that this was a better model of doing it. Where was the fork in the road where you went, okay, I'm going to turn this into a business.

It was a quasi midlife Crisis back in 2012. I think it was where I was really jack of my career and it just wasn't where my passion was. And that's when I decided to make this full time. After we had a really good profitable flip on a development site, I thought, okay, that's it. This is the trigger for me, it's time to change.

Excellent. Yeah. And so, and I'm guessing being a marketing strategist, you're getting the right clients that are open to this sort of strategy to open their property for people to buy it. The right terminology I'm getting. How is the market? How are you going with getting the right people? Because it is a mind flip. And that's why I wanted you on here to people to know more about the way you're doing this, because I think it's a really great way of doing it.

Are you asking about my opinion of the general state of the market or.

Like, what sort of type of people are attracted to you at the moment?

Right.

What's the market that really gets, you know, what, what, what do you enjoy? Who do you enjoy working with?

Yes, great question. So this is, I'll be the first person to say, this is not for everybody.

I get that.

If you value convenience, there are. Once we decide to sell a home, there's only really five things we could hope to achieve from the sale. One is convenience. Second is speed of sale. Third is highest possible sale price. Number four is lowest possible cost of sale. Number five is maximizing how much you pocket and walk away with after the transaction, which is really a combination of the previous two. High sell price, lower sale cost. This method is not for those people who want convenience. Okay. But as a caveat to that, you've got to be very careful when it comes to convenience, because when it comes to selling your home, convenience can be really, really expensive. And the more convenient the process feels, the worse you'll do financially. Yeah, that's, that's, that's a fact. So if you want to avoid convenient, you know, if you want, if you want convenience, it's going to cost you dearly. It'll be the most expensive convenience you'll ever pay for in your life, full stop.

Yeah, because you've got high commissions from real estate agents, high advertising fees, and also they won't get the top price because 40, 50 grand difference doesn't cost them much in commission.

And if you don't want to go to the trouble of making your home look like a display home, because that's a pain in the butt to create and maintain the look and feel of a display home while you're living in it, that's not convenient, but it's worth it.

I mean, a number of times. And once you've done it a few times, you get to know how to do it. And also it's quite interesting when my wife and I, when we first did our first Renault, she wasn't experienced in it. And I said to her, I can turn this two bedroom, one bathroom into a three bedroom, two bathroom. And we can either take six months to do it and we'll do one bathroom, we'll turn the laundry into another bathroom or I can do it all in 10 weeks, what do you prefer? And she goes, I'll prefer it quicker so we can live into something nice. And so the week after it was turned into a bombshell, it was just like. And she was like, I'm gonna go and live at my mum's. Like, see ya. So, you know, there was nights without toilets and there was a bucket there that I had to use and all that sort of. Yeah, we've all done it and all that sort of. And she's really glad she didn't have to do that. And it was probably a couple of nights I did go and stay at the mother in law's as well, which was good. Thank you, Lorraine. But she did come back when it was staged.

Yes.

And she walked in and she was like, oh my. Like, I want my house to be like this.

Didn't want to sell it. Right.

Didn't want to sell it. But the value, the property price we got was ridiculous, which was great. But it also taught her and me what the style is for that suburb and what, what it looked like and you know, you remove all your family photos and all that sort of stuff and make it look presentable, that they could just literally move in. And so from then on, every house we've moved to, she's been decorating it before Renault's in state and all that sort of stuff. So it's a great experience.

Yeah.

If you can look at it from that perspective.

Absolutely, absolutely right.

So, David, you know, in the current market and all that sort of stuff, I guess, you know, I guess, you know, what's, what's keeping you up at night?

It's probably not the market so much. You know, with a tricky business like mine, it's about, you know, how do I get out in front of my, you know, ideal clients, how do I raise awareness? Because that's really what I'm passionate about. Because most people when, when it comes to selling property, they think, well, which agent? And that's literally 99% of people. That's the only question they ask themselves. Some people ask, well, agent or private sale. But, you know, there's more than just those two options and that's what I want to raise Awareness of even if this is not the option for them, which is okay. And sometimes I turn people down because I don't believe it's the right options for them. Actually, it happens more often than not, but as long as people are aware of the alternatives that are available to them, my job's been done. And how I do that. Do I get on tv? I've tried that. Do I write a book? I've tried that. You know, do I advertise on Facebook? I've tried that.

Yeah. So, I mean, that leads me into my other questions around. In this business that you've got and you've tried those sorts of things, what is the worst moment you've experienced here?

The worst moment, Looking back at it, the worst moment is probably deciding to launch the business, Although it didn't seem like the worst moment at the time. Look, every time you do something, when you follow your passion, you're gonna have to have to overcome some hurdles and, you know, it's not good enough being good at what you do. You've got to become good at telling people and letting people know. And that's where I needed to do a lot of development on myself. And it's an ongoing, you know, process. I don't think it'll ever end. So that's, you know, that's keeping me up at night many times. You know, how do I. How do I spread the message? You know?

Yeah, hopefully this can help as well. So. Yeah, from that, I mean, you've been running for a while. You know, that's a key message of, you know, starting your own business, following your passion, which is what I did as well, and I love it. And there's ups and downs and stuff like that. What are some of the key lessons you've learned over this time frame to get where you are now?

It's really interesting. I think it's to really hone in on and very clearly identify who it is you can help the most, who it is that will benefit most from what you've got to offer. Because, you know, when you. When you start out in any business, you think you can help. You want to change the world market is everyone.

I can help everyone.

Exactly, exactly. And of course, it's not. For whatever reason, you know, it's not going to be a good fit either from your perspective or from their perspective. So I think that was my biggest lesson, and that's still a lesson being learned. So that's. That's ongoing.

Yeah. Yeah. Good. I like that. Just to summarize, you know, wrap up now, what's the number one takeaway that you'd want my listeners to take away from our conversation today?

It's just a shift in perspective, I guess that, and I think most people instinctively know this. You know, when you ask someone why you bought your home, did you buy it because of the real estate agent? Literally 99.9% of people will say no. So if you didn't, why would anyone else? And I think, you know, if you just plant that seed in your mind and look for the answers, I think you'll find them.

And David, I think you planted that seed in my brain when we had a good conversation. That's why I wanted you on here. David, I really wanted to thank you for today. Hopefully it's opened a lot of people's minds. Everyone on Facebook, if you've got any comments or anything, comment below. How's the best way to people contact you and how do they get started with you?

Look, they can go for a sticky beak and a tie kick on the website, which is www.revolutionary realestate.com. yeah. So basically you can do as much as, you know, reading on that side as you, as you, as you wish.

Great, Excellent. So that's David. Katie, you've also got the books on the website, so you can.

It is, yes, yeah, that sort of stuff.

And read Real estates Don't sell homes. I love that. Great statement. Thank you for your time. Really appreciate it. Really great to have you on here. If anyone's got any comments or questions for David, please post below or send them to me. I can forward them on to David or go to his website, revolutionaryrealestate.com and I look forward to talking to you all next week on the podcast. Thanks, David.

Thanks so much, Dax.

You're welcome.