The Power of Nutrition for Hormone Balance with Deanna Minich, PhD

Foreign.

Doctor Kristin Oja here, entrepreneur and functional medicine expert. Welcome to Little By Podcast where our goal is to empower you to achieve optimal health one step and one episode at a time. Taking a functional medicine approach will cover a variety of health and wellness topics, from how to optimize performance to how to balance your hormones and everything in between. This podcast is for educational purposes only, so please be sure to consult your healthcare provider before incorporating any changes into your daily routine. Now grab your headphones and let's go for a walk as we take steps towards becoming your best self.

So back in 2014 when I took my first functional medicine course with the Institute of Functional Medicine, today's guest was one of the speakers and I just loved hearing Dr. Deanna Minick talk about nutrition and foods and eating the color of the rainbow and not overcomplicating things. And so I'm so honored today that she is a guest on the Little By Podcast. But before we get into today's episode, I want to introduce Dr. Deanna Minick. She has her PhD and is a nutrition scientist, an international lecturer, an educator, and an Author with over 20 years of experience in academia and the food and dietary supplement industry. And she's also currently the Chief Science Officer at Symphony Natural Health, which is one of the macas we use at Stott Wellness. She's been active as a functional medicine clinician, in clinical trials and in her own practice, Food and Spirit. She is the author of seven consumer books on wellness topics, four book chapters and over 50 scientific publications. Through her talks, workshops, groups and in person retreats, she really focuses on helping people transform their life practically and artfully through nutrition and a lifestyle. I'm going to put her link www.deannamin.com so you can check her out, learn, get some of her books and I'll also link to the MACA that she is the Chief Science Officer for that we use at stat and we talk a little bit about during this episode. So thank you as always for tuning in and let's get into this episode with Dr. Deanna Minick.

Welcome to the Little Bi Podcast Dr. Deanna Minick.

Great to be here with you Kristen.

So we were talking before we started recording that you were one of the speakers when I first got into IFM a decade ago. And so it's just an honor to be here with you. So thank you for taking the time and coming on the Little By Podcast.

Thanks for the introduction invite and I'm excited for the conversation. We're going to cover a lot of ground it sounds like we are.

And one of the things we're so passionate about at ST Wellness is lifestyle and nutrition. And that's obviously your specialty. And so I wanted to get into females health, hormones and nutrition. And so I wanted to first kind of start out. Do you, do you work with women all along the spectrum? Do you kind of specialize in perimenopause, menopause? Is there any point that you feel like is kind of your niche in the hormone before we go through the whole spectrum?

I did in the past working with women all throughout the spectrum. But I would say I've really, I targeted my approach now to doing more retreats, workshops and specializing in women who are more peri and postmenopausal. So that's kind of, you know, I kind of brought it down to that, that specific group because I feel that it also kind of syncs up with my own lifestyle and what I've been through. And so that's kind of where I am right now.

Well, and I think they're the, they're the patients I see that struggle the most nutritionally because what they've always eaten isn't serving them the same way. And their bodies are changing and they're frustrated. And so I'm really excited to get into it. So let's talk a little bit because we work with pcos, we work with infertility at Stat Wellness. Is there some common nutritional depletion or deficiencies you see in this population when it comes to nutrition?

Yes, I think one of the first things to start with is the triangle of cortisol, glucose and insulin. I think that this is foundational for women throughout the entire life cycle, actually. And whenever we don't know where to start with hormones, I always feel like let's start with cortisol, insulin and glucose. Right. So especially with pcos, we see that many times that's connected to insulin resistance, that there's an issue with androgens and so reestablishing that balance between stress in her life and also maintaining a healthy blood sugar responses. So you and I were just talking a little bit about continuous glucose monitors. Kind of looking at your food response to glucose and just how you respond to those foods specifically. Specifically and in a personalized way. When it comes to things like fertility or endometriosis, I think we need to look at making sure that the body has enough in the way of anti inflammatory potential and antioxidant status. Those two things are going to be really key for just overall body health. But specific to endometriosis and looking at priming the body for optimal fertility. So I tend to think about that in terms of macronutrients and then refining with micronutrients and then getting into the phytonutrients. But that's a good place to start in terms of cellular health.

And the cortisol insulin connection is. I mean, I'm glad you brought that up because we check everybody's cortisol, their insulin, their fasting glucose, and it is the pillar of hormone balance for so many women. And I think our culture, we don't really know what being stressed feels like because stress is our baseline. Yes. Is there certain macronutrients? I'm not a big one to like track everything we're eating because I don't want to be doing that. So it's so hard for me to have other people do that. Do you kind of lean in? There's such a movement on like protein, protein, protein, protein. And I know you work with a lot of phytonutrients and plants and colors. Eating the rainbow. How do you help patients find a blend of protein, carbs, vegetables, color in this fertility reproductive age group?

It's, you know, I would say you need to make it simple because what we want is something long term and sustainable. Just to kind of back it out a little bit in terms of just looking, looking at the basics. First of all, are they following a whole foods diet, dietary pattern? Right. So are they moving away from the ultra processed foods and moving into more of the whole unprocessed foods? That's kind of like the first layer of what I look at. Secondly, if we're thinking about fertility and making sure that she has healthy reproductive function, we want to minimize endocrine disruptors and we're seeing more in the way of microplastics, nanoplastics, all of the different plastics that are getting in the way of good healthy hormone function. So I would say it's not just the foods that we're eating, it's where are they obtained from and how are they packaged and how do we prepare them? That's also very relevant for the conversation of bringing down inflammation and preparing the body for healthy fertility. So I think it's just best to kind of start there because every woman is a little bit unique in terms of their accessibility to these foods, their ease and preparation and meeting them where they're at. But I think just at a very basic level, Ultra Processed Foods vs Whole Foods and making sure that we're veering more on the ultra, on the Away from the ultra processed and more on the whole foods side.

And I feel like that is such a simple concept, but such a hard concept it is for people to implement because you know of again running from one thing to another and a kid's softball and whatever it may be after school. Have you found any meal deliveries or you want a food prep on Sunday?

What?

Has there been any strategies that you found over the years that have been really helpful in making whole Foods attainable for the busy American?

I think thinking in three day increments. So what we know about the gut is rotating foods every three days is a good practice. And also if we think about going to the grocery store or to the, to the market and kind of getting things together like every three days seems to be like one of those things that most people can do. Like if you set the bar much higher and say, oh, every day you need to do these things. I think it's less, less obtainable by women. So whether they're doing a meal prep on maybe a Sunday, if that's doable and then they're of forecasting out for the week, that's fine. But I think, you know, again, looking at every three days kind of like what they can do in terms of like a store visit meal prep, I think that that's probably the best way to go. And also if you have it on hand, chances are you're going to be more apt to use the foods. Right. So that's why it's kind of like the out of sight, out of mind. Don't keep foods in the house that you don't really want to eat. So. And also try to go shopping when you're not as stressed out, when you actually have time to just, just kind of be present in that shopping experience. You can actually see shopping and meal prep as meditation and self care time too.

I love that mindset shift. It's, you know, using it as time, listen to music, do breath work, make it enjoyable versus like another thing on your to do list.

You know, we have to, we have to inject a bit of that intentionality into everything we're doing because our lives are just already so cluttered. So how do we create more intention? We're just going to feel better about what we're doing and then it won't be drudgery. You know, I had one client years ago who just didn't like being in her kitchen. She had a lot of inflammation. She actually had colitis. And her kitchen, when I asked her to describe her kitchen to me, it Was very sterile, it was very white. She didn't like to cook. So we talked about how we could just change up her kitchen so that it's more inviting, like a sanctuary. So I think we just need to. Whether it's a windowsill in your kitchen, where you start to populate with things that have meaning, like a little inspirational, affirmational card, you know, all of these little things that we do to change our environment will actually change our thinking, will actually change our behavior, and then we'll have longer term effects on our health. So I think it starts with the kitchen. The kitchen is a nucleus for the family, and it's also a portal of where health begins for many of us.

I love thinking about it as a sanctuary. And for me, plants like greenery, natural lighting. You can really, anytime we have people over at our house, where do they gather? Right. The kitchen. It's like no matter what, they're always in the kitchen. So I love kind of how do you restructure that? And a silly example for me, but when I have cucumbers or bell peppers or whatever it may be, if I don't slice them up the second I get home with them, they just like go in a drawer. And so, you know, when you were talking about just kind of the preparation and just what's accessible and what you can grab, if I come home and I cut up my cucumbers and I cut up my bell pepper and just like spend a couple minutes doing it, when my kids want to snack, you grab it from the fridge. You know, it's just, it's little things that I feel like it's so easy to just forget about. And then you're, you're rushed and you go through, you know, whatever it may be. So whole foods over processed foods. Microplastics is huge. We did a whole podcast episode on this. You probably saw the study where they found more microplastics in our brain, which was crazy.

Yeah, about a teaspoon worth of microplastics, like 7 grams in the brain. And the brain is very fat soluble. So a lot of that microplastic lipophilic material will just kind of go in and sink in. And that's where we bring in herbs and spices. I think that this is really important for women throughout her life cycle. So bringing in herbs, whether they're fresh herbs that you can grow even on the windowsill, having a windowsill garden. If she can't have a full on garden, that's a great place to start. But spices are really key and Like I talk about the rainbow of foods, there's also the rainbow of spices, right? So spices are important for their anti inflammatory benefit, their antioxidant potential, but also they can help to interfere with things that would form in cooking that aren't so good for us. So bringing in spices before we cook can be a great strategy for improving the nutritional quality of foods. So playing around with spices a little bit, I have found in most people's kitchens that their spices are expired, they're old, they're crusty, they're in plastic containers. You know, there are some best practices to start with there that can get you a long way, and that adds to the diversity of your meal as well. And that is part of dietary diversity. So if you have a curry powder with 11 spices already, you have 11 unique plants that you're introducing into your diet. So I think, you know, in your kitchen, just kind of take it step by step and kind of intentionally feel out the different areas, like your spice area. You know, do you just have something on the countertop? Do you have something in the drawer? When was the last time you actually cleaned out your spices? And how can you bring more of the colors of spices into your everyday meals? For the polyphenols, the carotenoids, the curcuminoids, all of those things are like nature's pharmacy.

When my husband and I got married and we were going through the spices, when we were blending our houses, he had moved with spices from seriously high school to college to his apartment to his first house. And it expired a decade ago. And I don't know the shelf life of spices. We do a lot of fresh herbs, but I was like, if it expired a decade ago, it had been made, what, 20, 30 years ago. My mind was blown. So you should check expiration. Is there some favorite herbs you have for women of reproductive age? Do you have like, lemon balm or garlic or any, like, favorite flavors that you think are helpful when it comes to hormone balance or just diversity?

I think diversity is really important because every woman's going to be a little bit unique and each of those different phytochemicals like to play together. They're all very diverse in that way. Right. But if I'm just thinking about, you know, we have a lot of green herbs and spices to choose from. Right. And so getting a lot of antibacterial, antifungal, antiviral types of properties from these spices, I think can be helpful for women. And also, again, fostering a healthier gut microbiome. I do Think that turmeric, you know, any kind of curry powder or turmeric, we just have to be sure that we have a good, healthy turmeric, that it isn't, you know, you have to read spice labels. Believe it or not, some of them actually have fillers like maltodextrin. So there's a starch component in it, and that shouldn't be there. Sometimes you can actually find gluten in spices. So if you have a good organic turmeric in a glass jar, that's. That's a better, I would say, better choice than perhaps some of the others, like, if they're in plastic, because you can get the migration of plastic from. Because those spices are sitting around for some time, so they're subject to heat, light and oxygen. So then you can start to get migration of the plastic into the spice. But turmeric would be good for women, I would say, of that age range, because you're, again, reducing inflammation. You're helping the gut microbiome. We know that for women with higher toxic load, that turmeric can help to override some of the effects of toxicants. So that would be a good one. And ginger, too. You know, when I think of ginger, ginger and turmeric kind of go well together, together with black pepper, of course. But ginger is great for the gut and also gut motility, helping with kind of the nervous system in the gut. So I do think about ginger turmeric as kind of a one, two punch in the way of gut and inflammatory response.

Well, and you opened my eyes to think about herbs and spices. In, you know, the study that was done that looked at 30 different plants per week people had. They typically lived longer. And a lot of our patients were like, well, how do I get 30 different plants? And I was thinking about beans and lentils and nuts and seeds and vegetables and fruit, and I was like, it adds up quickly. But then, you know, you just open my eyes to spices and herbs and thinking about those. The curry powder example and the diversity as we kind of wrap up the reproductive age. One of the things that we see a lot is estrogen dominance. And I know you brought up endocrine disruptors and some of those things, but do you have any favorite foods when it comes to lowering estrogen or helping with estrogen metabolism for women?

Well, I think we have to look at many different aspects of hormones, right? The synthesis, the transport, the activation, the excretion, the metabolism. And I think what ends up happening when there's an imbalance of estrogen. So very High estrogen relative to progesterone. We have to look at how she's metabolizing it. One of the first things that I would be looking at is, is she excreting it properly through the gut?

Right.

Because if we have high levels of certain enzymes in the gut, we can actually get a recirculation of estrogen. So even though we might be metabolizing it correctly, we're not excreting it. For many women, they have constipation, their gut is just not moving correctly, Right? So fiber, fiber, fiber. Certain fibers are going to bind certain of these metabolites better than others. And I would even say diversification of dietary fiber. I just had a newsletter that went out this week talking about that very thing. Not just psyllium, but bring in rice bran, bring in flaxseed meal, bring in the whole array of, I would even say the rainbow of different fibers that will help you to excrete estrogen better and get it out of the body. The second thing is making sure that your liver is properly metabolizing estrogen. So you might need to be looking at things like cruciferous vegetables. So things like broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, pomegranate can be good for that as well as the gut microbiome. So bringing into harmony a better, I would say, liver metabolism there. And even bringing in protein can help with proper metabolism overall. And that just applies to everything. But then we can also look at hormones in that regard. It's like looking at a whole formula. It's not just what she's making in terms of hormones. There's obviously a reason for the imbalance. So looking a little bit closer, is it the gut, is it the liver? Is there some kind of stressor? So is cortisol high? And once we throw off one hormone, we start to just throw off the entire web of hormones. So we see that with melatonin and cortisol. We see estrogen, testosterone, cortisol, insulin. You know, all of these hormones are very interrelated. So I would start to look at and start piecing apart the different body systems to see where something could be awry. And many times in functional medicine, as you know, we talk about, let's start with the gut. Let's look at how you're taking things in and excreting. That's the like 101. And from there we build.

Doesn't the Standard American get 10 grams of fiber per day? If you look at the standard American.

Diet, yeah, I think the latest stats I Saw were something like 11 to 15 grams per day, but that's well under the 28 to 35. And even ancestrally we look at something like between 50 and 60 grams is what we are traditionally just made to deal with, right? But the number of plants that we have in our diet have substantially reduced. So instead of having the 1000 to 3000 different diverse species from just ancestrally just having that ability to access those plants, we've now been reduced to like a hundred to three hundred. Like if you go into your standard markets, your grocery stores, you kind of see the same things unless you start to shop on more, I would say like farmer's markets or you go to a community supported agriculture kind of of, you know, CSA kind of cooperative there. So making sure that yes, you, you get the, that full diversity so that you're getting fiber to help with hormone metabolism.

And we find, you know, when you think about the fiber, it's like some of these sources like Zen basil seeds, chia seeds, ground flaxseed, if you can at least start your day. Like, we're obviously big on vegetables with every single meal and natural sources of fiber, but you can have, have so much fiber in a daily smoothie and just start your day with those prebiotics because a lot of our patients are like, well, what probiotic is best? And I'm like, well I, I want to even take it a step back and be like, are we getting those prebiotics for the gut flora? And you know, when you go through a food journal, we find these 10, 15 grams of fiber per day. And I love the word the estrobiome. And like just how much this gut microbiome plays a role with estrogen metabolism, as you mentioned. So is there, you mentioned the fiber, you'll aim for up to 35 grams as kind of your goal with most people. Is that fair?

It depends on how much they're eating, right? So as we start talking about menopausal women, they tend to eat less, right? They're not as hungry, their caloric needs are not always as high. So it just kind of depends. It can wax and wane between 25 to 35 grams. It just, I would say overall depends. But I like your idea of front loading that smoothie, whether it's in the morning or in the afternoon, with a lot of the fiber just packing it in chia seeds and basil seeds, flaxseed meal. If you look at the studies on flaxseed meal, supplying lignans, which are important phytoestrogens, for women. And I would say that that's all throughout the lifespan. We're looking at anywhere between 5 to 30 grams having some kind of benefit. So a teaspoon of fiber is typically between 4 and 5 grams. So just think about it like that. Even if you can get two teaspoons of something like flaxseed meal to start, or chia seeds, or what I like to do in my personal smoothie, and I do aim to have one per day, is I like. Just like you said, actually, the Zen basil seeds I use that. I use, the chia seeds, I use flaxseed. I kind of rotate. I have a rice bran fiber. I just. I like to move between different fibers because I want to create a poly culture. I want a very diverse gut microbiome because our gut seems to work better when we do that versus a monoculture where we just eat the same foods day after day. And then we start to get more allergies, intolerances, more sensitivities, and just not a very robust gut.

Can you. You brought up phytoestrogens, and I think there's so much misinformation on phytoestrogens. Can you touch on that for a minute of like, what a phytoestrogen is and what some of the research has shown on its impacts on the female body?

Very simply, I think of phytoestrogens as hormone whisperers, meaning that they. They're in plants. That's why we have phyto. That means plant estrogen, the estrogen kind of structure. But these compounds in plants, which many times fall under the polyphenol category of phytochemicals, they can either. They can prime the cell very gently with a response, especially if a woman has low estrogen. So kind of increasing that signal a little bit lo. Just a little bit more. And then I would say if she has just back to your comment before about estrogen excess or what has been referred to as estrogen dominance, it can block some of the signal of the stronger estrogens that might be more proliferative, or it can lead to a lot of some of the downstream symptoms that women have. So I do think that plants bringing in those phytoestrogens can be a good thing for women throughout her life cycle because they can kind of flex to what she needs. If she needs a little bit more estrogen, or at least the signal of estrogen, they can do that. And if we need to kind of offset the stronger estrogen signal, it can do that as well. So you tend to get phytoestrogens from legumes, which women don't typically eat too much of. Right. Cause sometimes they have bloating and they have issues around that. But flaxseed lignans would be a great source. Isoflavones from whether red clover. Or if a woman does whole food, fermented soy, that would be a good thing as well. Many times, how our body responds to phytoestrogens will be dependent on our gut microbiome. You mentioned the estrab alone. Right. So the type of gut microorganisms that are actually participating in estrogen metabolism. So we need a good, healthy gut to ensure the effect of those phytoestrogens. And Kristin, the other thing that most people don't realize because it's more emerging science, is that there are also lookalike compounds in plants that we call phytoprogestins. So not only are there these compounds that look like estrogens in plants, but also progesterone. And we tend to find those in things like celery, carrots. I mean, if you. Again, if you're eating from the broad swath of different plant foods and you're just picking from all these different colors, chances are you're going to have the benefits from those plants in a variety of different ways, going from gut to brain to heart health. All very relevant for the body.

Well, and I think a lot of our patients are. They're scared of phytoestrogens, that it's going to increase their estrogen or cause breast cancer. And when you really look at the research on it, I kind of think of them as adaptogens. Like they're like estrogen adaptogens. Like just that. You were saying it kind of helps that body have a healthy balance. And when I was looking in the research, a lot of the cultures that eat some of the most clean sources of phytoestrogens have the lowest breast cancer rate. And so I just wanna make sure we covered that because I think there's a lot of misconceptions on phytoestrogens out there.

Agree. And. And lower rates of recurrence if people have had cancer before. And some people say, oh, but those studies were primarily done in Asia. And so we don't know about a more heterogeneous population. But in general, if we're consuming good, healthy, organic, non GMO soy and other plant foods, and ideally fermented, so we get the benefit of some of those phytoestrogens, which are more bioavailable, we should see a lot of those. Those effects. And perhaps that's why women in Asia. And now there's a lot of debate about this, but maybe that's why they don't experience a lot of menopausal symptoms. It might be because of that. It might also be just because of how they communicate their symptoms. But I do think that diet plays a big role in whether or not we experience menopausal symptoms. Symptoms.

And it's always worth. I tell patients, try it. Try it yourself. If you, you know, for a couple months, we can monitor your labs. If you're scared you're gonna become estrogen dominant, let's do dutches. Let's eat some more phytoestrogens and see. And in my experience, the healthy, you know, going to that two hydroxy estrone pathways, yes. Are amplified when you eat some of these phytoestrogens. And so sometimes I tell people, like, you're right, let's not go based on this one study. Let's go based on you as our study subject and see what we see in your results. And it's been fun, you know, over the years to show people that in their labs so that they also have some of that confidence.

And we're talking about foods versus supplements, right? Because foods are complex mixtures. So together with the phytoestrogens, you're going to have fiber, you're going to have vitamins, you're going to have minerals. And if people have some hesitancy, you know, just start with food formats. Because nature has designed that food in a particular way for synergy and for kind of like the matrix. Matrix of what it provides versus isolating isoflavones and then taking that where there might be an altered response. Right. So start with food first. That's kind of the. The general premise that you and I both come from food is medicine. Right.

And then kind of going into. Because I have such a heart for perimenopausal and menopausal women, I'm not there yet, but I can feel some of the struggles. I mean, they come in and they're just frustrated. Their A1C is going up, their cholesterol's going up, their body composition's changing. They feel like they're eating similar to how they used to. They're pulling in all the tricks that they used to do to help with their cardiometabolic health, and they don't see the same response. So can you talk to those perimenopausal and menopausal women if you have any different recommendations than what we've talked about before with the whole foods and quality and phytoestrogens and some of that.

Yeah, all of that is still really relevant. So, again, let's just look at synthesis, transport, activation, excretion, and metabolism. All of those things still apply when it comes to her hormone health. But now she's starts to fall short on synthesis. Now her levels endogenously are tanking, right? And she starts to have this dynamic dance in perimenopause between estradiol and progesterone. Cortisol kind of gets out of whack, Melatonin starts to decline. All these things start stacking up kind of all at once. So one of the things that could help in that regard, and you and I were talking about that, and I've done some research on maca. So maca is a root grown traditionally in Peru. There are 17 different phenotypes of maca, and some of these phenotypes have been tested in combination for perimenopause and postmenopause. So this is a blend that is called feminescence. Right. Not all maca is the same for all women. Let's just take that PCOS patient that you were talking about. So if she just went to the grocery store and just bought a big bag of maca to add to her smoothie, she could actually be exacerbating this androgenic profile that she has. Because maca is an adaptogen, it will stimulate the adrenaline, but that's just kind of like the general form of maca without actually having a defined known amount and phenotype of maca. So some of these maca phenotypes, which, again we see with feminescence, can help her to naturally produce and balance estradiol and progesterone in the body and help to manage that at the level of the hypothalamus and pituitary. So that's one of the things I think about in Perry and Post is, okay, let's potentiate whatever her body can do from a synthesis perspective. The other thing that I think is really important for these women is the color orange. I know that that's going to sound really strange, but we. We need to think about all different things with peri and postmenopause, right? We need to think about nutrition and lifestyle overall because she has a decline in her endocrine system. So, again, the feminescence will help from the standpoint of the brain communicating to the ovaries and the adrenals. Then if we want to focus on the ovaries a bit. Orange foods contain certain carotenoids that have actually been shown to be helpful for reducing ovarian decline. So if you want to keep your ovaries vital for longer, making sure that you have certain carotenoids in your diet that typically come from orange foods like tangerines, oranges, persimmons, mangoes. And it's not just beta carotene, but there are other plant compounds like beta cryptoxanthin, which you can get from butternut squash, pumpkin, but a lot of those orange fruits as well, because we know that the ovary concentrates certain amounts of these carotids. So again, another reason to have these plants coming in to help with some of the symptoms of peri and postmenopause.

Love that. I've never put in my recommendations to eat more orange.

Orange, yes.

I, I love that. And maca. My mind was, like, blown when I learned about feminescence and did some educational calls with their clinical team because I, I thought maca was maca. Like, I thought it was all a very similar plant. I had no idea there were so many different phenotypes, types. It's been. We now, as a practice only use feminescence and they have the three products for different phases of a woman's life. But they also have done a lot of research on their product. And I feel so confident to tell people, like, you'll see improvements in two months. Most of my patients do in two months. And so, you know, every once in a while you get that patient that doesn't see improvements. But I'm like, just be consistent for two months. And they come in and they feel so much better. I have seen and I'm interested in, in your thoughts on this. And I don't want to get away from the perimenopause and menopause. But just real quick, while I have you here, I do see some estrogen dominance exacerbated when I use the reproductive maca. Have you ever seen that? Or is any of the research within the company, like the patients with really heavy cycles, semenorrhea, or do you think there's some other variables going on and it's not connected to the maca harmony?

There might be other variables there because we've actually published case reports in which women with dysmenorrhea or PMDD actually benefited through a clinical protocol that included feminescence maca harmony. Because what it's doing is it's actually recalibrating horm and bringing an estrogen dominant state into one that's more balanced with progesterone. So I tend to think about, you know, other things probably happening there, and it might require a little bit more time to get her cycling and kind of it may take three months instead of the traditional two that you see. So the other thing about the feminescence products is what we know is that one of the actives, the glucosinolate, which is also shared by cruciferous vegetables, but they're different in maca. But we know that glucosinolates are important for detoxification. So initially, what you might be seeing is, I don't know if it's estrogen dominance or you're starting to see a ramping up of estrogen metabolism, which might bring to the surface certain symptoms that might look like estrogen dominance, but it's really kind of clearing and helping with the metabolism and excretion of estrogen. So sometimes for these women, they need a little bit longer in order to kind of recalibrate. We calibrate and balance. I know clinically, when I was really focusing in on more of that stage of life with women, it would take at least three months to kind of see this balance that would happen. And it just depends on how long she's been out of balance too, and making sure again that gut mitochondria function. Kind of looking at all these cylinders. We've had what we call feminescence babies because of the improvements in fertility and menstrual cycles that women have seen by taking the product. And just the orchestration, we call it like the symphony within. Right. Because the endocrine system is all kind of working together. The thyroid, the adrenals, the ovaries, is working with the brain, the hypothalamus, the pituitary. So sometimes that symphony, it just needs a little bit more time to get in sync. And then once she's getting in that groove, then her menstrual cycle starts to become more regular, she starts to feel better. And so we, we have seen this over time. The product has been in the market for about years. So we've had a lot of clinicians like yourself where they just become fans because they see this. But yeah, we do have some published case studies showing that there is benefit using feminescence maca harmony for these women with balancing hormones.

Well, and I love that. Just kind of stick with it because there is. I, I wish I had ultrasounds on all of these women to see if Their uterine lining was actually thinning and becoming healthier because we just, we don't have all that data. We don't do ultrasounds here. And you know, we don't really have OB GYNs that are doing it before and after because I, I was thinking about that, like, are we actually thinning the uterine lining and having a healthy uterus? And so the cycle is getting heavier at the beginning as progesterone and estrogen are getting into balance. But yeah, so I love that. But do you use it in place of hormone replacement therapy in a lot of the clients or the people you work with? Or do people use MACA in conjunction with hormone replacement therapy and dietary changes? What are.

Yes and yes. Okay. So again, just to go back to the mechanism, the root cause. So a woman goes through menopause because of this decline in the endocrine system, right? So we want to start with the foundational elements, of course, with diet and lifestyle. We can't negate that. We just know from functional medicine principles that we need to be looking at all of those, those aspects, but then layering on top of that, trying. I see it as like a first line approach to hormones and also the balancing and the synthesis of hormones to bring in feminescence. Because I think that, that what you really want to do is help the woman's body to work on its own accord, right? You really want to optimize the ovaries. So maybe there needs to be a better, more streamlined feedback between the brain, the adrenals and the ovaries. Maybe that gets disconnected. Because in functional medicine we talk about hormones being part of the communication node, right? So communication starts to become disturbed in the body again, the symphony becomes noise, right? And we have this dyssynchrony. So what feminescence does is it's helping to unify that as much as possible, possible. Let's just say we get her to 70%, 80%. If we wanna top it off with something like menopausal hormone therapy or bring in bioidentical hormones in some way, then I would say that's kind of the, the tippy top of the whole triangle of different steps, right? Because then we're just kind of capping that off and maybe she won't even need the hormones. We wanna see what her body can do naturally. So again, just starting foundationally, looking at omega 3 fatty acids, getting inflammation under control, helping the cell to be healthier for the transport of hormones in and out of the cell, also helping the mitochondria we know that that's essential for the synthesis of hormones and then kind of again working our way up from that. But again, activity patterns can change during the perimenopause and post menopause. So we do need to consider all of those aspects because they all do play in. And this is where Kristin, I think, I mean you acknowledged this as well in your clinical practice, where sometimes having a little bit more personalization during this time of life, because every woman kind of, I would say, has a different phenotype during her menopausal transition. For some women, they have no issues, they don't even know what's happening. For other women, it's just like there is so much going on. So I think as much as possible that we tend to the pre menopausal phase of life to prepare the adrenals, to prepare blood sugar response, to get inflammation at a low before she's going into the perimenopause. I think that that is optimal. And then maybe we just need some dietary tweaks, lifestyle tweaks. We bring in feminescence, maca life in order to kind of just smooth the gap and help that communication, nourish that whole circuitry. And then from there, as she moves on, if she needs anything further, then that can be tweaked.

Yeah, it goes back to the, the pyramid decision making, like don't bypass the lifestyle and the natural remedies that we have. Do you find that women need a little bit less carbohydrates when they become menopausal? A little more protein or fat? Or do you kind of keep a balance plate through all of these stages?

I think it really depends. What I have seen is that some women go into this like this rigorous fasting, which can be detrimental. Like she starts to go from. Instead of just like a general nightly fast, a 12 to 14 hour fast. What we see is that some women start to engage because they, they hear on social media or whatever it is, or a podcast. But then they start to do these more rigorous fasting regimens, like 14 to 18 hours. That may not serve her well. She may need more carbohydrate because carbohydrate especially good quality carbohydrates. So I'm thinking of non starchy carbohydrates that we would get from vegetables or if we're thinking of a grain, something like quinoa, which is higher in protein. That can be helpful because then you start to tip the balance of gaining, getting certain amino acids into the brain that will help with neurotransmitter production. Right. So we start to look at things like tryptophan, which is a precursor to melatonin, and also serotonin, and that can help with mood modulation. And also when we look at carbohydrate, that is one of the sources of dietary fiber, too. So we can't totally opt out of that as an entire food group. I think we just have to qualify what we mean when we say carbohydrate because. Because so often you'll go on Instagram or wherever and you'll start to see, don't eat carbohydrates. Carbs bad. There's kind of like this general bucketing of this huge class of this macronutrient. But we know that there's delineation. We know that there is nuance. And it's not that you don't eat any carbohydrate. It's that you start to veer away from the high glycemic, refined carbohydrates. Right. Like the donuts and the cakes and the cookies and the breads and the pastas. And we just get smarter about our carbohydrate choices, but we don't omit them entirely. I think that they're important for her energy, balance.

And, you know, one of the big things we do at SAD is we're a gym. We're medicine and movement. And so we go back to muscle building. And you need carbohydrates to build muscle.

Yes.

And that is what we really try. Because you start losing muscle mass at 30 years old. Like, how do we support healthy muscle mass? In your 30s, in your. Is so that we're maintaining muscle in our 50s and our 60s and our 70s and our independence. And I think it's just. It's so fascinating to me that women are living so much longer now in a great way. But, you know, we're spending now a third of our life in menopause, where, you know, in other decades and centuries, we weren't right. Like, women were just passing away earlier. And so I think there's going to be more and more research on the menopausal female. And I'm excited for it and to be along for the ride because. Because we're living longer and it's amazing and. But we're learning nuances of lack of hormones. What is that doing to the heart and the bones and the skin? And I love your stepwise approach, the nutrition, the maca. The hormones as needed.

And, you know, I just want to leave Everybody too, with an, a more inspirational message around menopause, because I see it as the second half of life. And during this half of life, I see that women move from a very physically oriented, I would say outward way of life into a more mental, emotional, spiritual, and really getting into her, her sense of presence, who she is, her inner wisdom. So she tends to need less in terms of the external realm and she starts to go more internal. And this is why many women during their menopausal time, they start to write their memoir, they start to, they end jobs and start new jobs, they end relationships and start new relationships just because there is kind of this clearing. To me, menopause is like a detoxification when you don't have the veil of hormones. It's like certain things just become more self evident, become clearer. We start to move into, I would say, more of an intuitive space of wisdom. You know, there is this sense of the elder, right? And sometimes people see that as a negative, like, oh, that sounds so aging. And you know, and it's not, it's really giving honor, respect and gratitude to that inner elder within us that, you know, we don't have to strive so hard. You know, I, I just recall just in my younger days, like in my 20s and 30s, just, you know, getting through graduate school, getting my degrees, everything was just rushing in driver, driver mode. And like every four years I had it like a new goal, a new degree, a new, new job. I was doing something new and now I feel like receiving. I feel that, that, you know, just kind of listening. Like, is it a yes, is it a no? Like it just. Things start to feel more natural. I feel like once you've gone through menopause and are more in the post menopausal phase, it's kind of like you don't have the hormones, the constant changing of hormones to kind of move you in all these different directions. It feels, at least for me and also in other women that I've talked with. For them it just feels more grounding. They feel grounded, they feel more present and they feel more of themselves. So that's also something to look forward to. I don't want women to not look forward to this time of life because I feel like it can be very empowering. It's kind of like, wow, like the world is your oyster and you feel that you're in your more authentic space of who you are, you know, because you have life experience and that's not what you had at 20 or 30, right? So you're in a different Time of life. And that, I believe, is really valuable.

We talk all the time. We don't even use the word anti aging, because it's like, aging is a game.

Like, it is such a gift.

And every time I'm around the table with my parents, who are grandparents now, I. Every day I look at them and I just think, like, that is my goal in life. Like, my goal in life is to be sitting in your spot. And my girls, to be old enough and have kids and just be like, you know, just like, how beautiful is aging? And how beautiful is what you're describing. And I love the way you frame the mindset of, like, the veil taken away. Because we talk a lot about in our reproductive years, years, like, chemically, we are different every single day we wake up and, like, isn't that. It's just so fascinating to me the way women were designed that in our reproductive, we're chemically different. So we're gonna feel different, we're gonna think different, we're gonna crave different foods. And then you think about this in menopause, where it's like, you know, we're getting a pretty consistent picture every day, and the beauty in that. So, like, thank you for ending this on that. I think that's such a great. And I feel like. I hope a lot of my menopausal females are listening to this because they just come in and they just are frustrated by their body and they're frustrated by these. I love your mindset of. There's also beauty in this. You know, there's. There's a grounding in this and, you know, refinding the essence and the importance of life. So I love that. And my last question for you, because we are wrapping up, is this whole podcast is about little by little, a little becomes a lot. If you were to end with our listeners of, you know, 1, 2, or 3, like, really quick, what do you feel when it comes to nutrition is going to have the biggest impact on females and their hormones?

Three things. One, eat the colors of the rainbow, which we already talked about. And that's just to get all the different phytochemicals that can help hormones. Number two, be creative and curious about food. You know, change it up, get out of those food ruts that we talked about. And number three, encourage diversity. And that's not just foods, but that's like, life experiences. That's like, just even people you meet, ways that you get to locations, you know, take a different road, take a different way to get to where you're going. Right. That diversity, like we talked about with herbs and spices, I think is. Is really important and it helps to keep your, I would say, just kind of the. The inspiration alive. So color, creativity, and diversity, I feel like these are nature's principles, not just mine. And that can just add so much vitality to our lives.

Those are great. And the curiosity, I love that. The curiosity, too. So thank you so much for your time and for being on here. This was wonderful. I will put your website in the show notes. So if anybody wants to follow along your blog, your article, and you have a book.

I do. Well, I have a number of books, but the. The latest one is the Rainbow Diet. No surprise with that title. The different colors and the codes of those colors and what they do in the body. So pay attention to that orange chapter because there's a lot of good information for women in the orange color category.

Thank you.

Thank you for tuning in. And as always, always remember, little by little, a little becomes a lot. Even the smallest changes over time can lead to total mind and body transformation. I'd love for you to stay connected with rkristanoja and tatwellness on Instagram. And if you have any questions, be sure to reach out. I'd love to hear from you.