S1E8 Corey-osity Unleashed with Garry Ridge

Welcome to Curiosity Unleashed, where we turn bold ideas into action and help businesses and leaders step it up.

We're your hosts, Debra and Ken, obsessed with fresh takes, bold moves, and shaking up the way we lead and work.

Alongside our amazing guests, we'll dive into the good, the bad, and the actual what the hell of the workplace, served with a side of sarcasm and a splash of wisdom.

Oh, and fair warning, this is an adult podcast. Expect swearing, like Ken just did, brutal honesty, and the occasional dramatic reenactment of some of the most epic workplace fails we've ever seen.

Or done. So grab your drink, get comfy, and let's unleash some curiosity.

Hello everyone! I am so excited about today's guest. It is the one and only Gary Ridge, who is someone who truly, truly lives and leads by example. He's someone who doesn't just talk about things like trust and belonging and learning. But he spent decades embedding them into the heart of how companies actually operate and thrive. Gary is a leader, a coach, a passionate advocate for workplace cultures that foster belonging, learning, and success. As CEO and Chairman of WD-40 for 25 years, wow, he built one of the world's most recognized brands by prioritizing trust, respect, and people-centric leadership. Gary, I forgot to have my can on my desk. I was going to have my can to show what a great product it is. But I'm sure you have one on your desk. Let me finish the introduction. Sorry, there are so many wonderful things to say about you. Now, you've taken your mission even further as the culture coach, board member, best-selling author, and passionate advocate for leaders who want to create workplaces where people feel valued, safe, and inspired to do their best work. You call yourself— see if I can say this word right— the Dean of Dumbassery. Did I get that right, Gary? Dumbass can do it.

Absolutely.

Okay, great. And your core philosophy is that when people feel safe, valued, and connected, they do their best work and go home happy, strengthening families, communities, and the world. I absolutely love that. We are so, so thrilled to welcome you to our podcast where we'll be discussing your latest book, which we can see behind you if anyone's watching, called Any Dumbass Can Do It. Getting Curious and Unleashing Some Rebellious but Sorely Needed Leadership Lessons and Tips. So thank you so much, Gary, for joining us today.

Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for having me along. It's good to be with you again.

Again, I know. We've known each other for how many years now since we sat at a speaker's table back in US? I think it was like 8 years ago.

Yeah, that and when we sat and ate some really lovely Dover sole at Scott's Restaurant, I think it was, in London.

Oh, we did. Yes, we'll have to do that. Separate ends of the world right now. You're in California, I'm in London, but we'll have a reunion soon and we'll invite Ken. Sorry, Ken, you're here. We'll invite you to our reunion. So yes, definitely.

You know, I'll take an afterthought position on this one. That's absolutely fine. Yeah.

Well, before I leave it to turn it over to you, Ken, to ask the first question, I just wanted to say this up front. Your book is so packed with so much information and so many golden nuggets of wisdom and insights. That we could be talking for hours and hours. So I'm just telling anybody listening that we're gonna give you just a little bit of a snippet, a little bit of a teaser, but if you want the full brilliance, I really, really suggest you go out and grab a copy of his book. It is absolutely amazing. So yeah, with that, Ken, I'm gonna turn it over to you to start the questions.

Okay, I'm gonna jump for an obvious question here, Gary. That title is bold, it's cheeky, it definitely grabs attention. I've got a few questions. What sparked the idea? Did anyone try to talk you out of it? What message were you hoping it would send to leaders?

Thanks, Ken. Yeah, it is, it is bold and it was meant to be that way. The underlying message really is that if you understand and you know the ingredients that need to be put in place and executed on consistently, in an organization, you can build a culture where people go to work every day, they make a contribution to something bigger than themselves, they learn something new, they're protected and set free by a compelling set of values, and they go home happy. And my premise is that if you do know that, any dumbass can do it. So yes, that's why I titled the book that. I think I probably had only 2 people that really said you shouldn't do that, and so many people said I love the title. And I guess because I'm an Aussie, I could get away with it. But remember, ass in our language means donkey, so you could have been any dumb donkey could do it. But I'm not talking about someone's posterior here, I'm talking about, you know, the whole aspect of it. So that's why.

Is that a pun? The aspect of it? Now, I'm just curious. CEOs are not known in general for being humble and being able to sort of see themselves in a self-deprecating mirror. Have many CEOs told you that they had any issues with the problem with the title?

No, no, I hope that they're reading it and realizing that that's the dumbassery is their superpower, because really that's what I learned in my time as I led. You know, we have a friend here. Well, let's get them. This is, you know, Alec or Alice, the soul-sucking CEO of Fear Incorporated. He is mentioned or she is mentioned in the book. And we talk about in the book, you know, all of the toxic behaviors that leaders have that create these cultures where, you know, people don't go home happy. And really, that was the purpose, is to get awareness. You know, Ken, what I think is really important is, and what I've learned over time on my journey and through my coaching practice— now I coach 8 CEOs at a time, that's the total number I'll have on my roster at any one time. Most of them aren't aware of their behavior and how it affects others. And really, that's the whole essence of my coaching program, is the first part of it is, are you aware of how your behavior impacts other people?

Now that makes all the sense in the world. Thank you, Deb.

I was just going to say, Gary, I mean, we interviewed you for, for our book and you were just so, so helpful and adding value and adding some details that you've learned. And as you know, the first A in our 3 As is awareness. So, I think you're absolutely right. And the whole concept of any dumbass can do it. I think once you get past awareness, because to me, that's almost like the first door that you have to open. How do you open the eyes of those CEOs and those leaders that you work with to go to that first step? And you know, face your demons and be aware of the impacts, good and bad, that you're having on people?

Well, I lean on the work of my dear friend, Dr. Marshall Goldsmith. You know, Marshall's been a friend of mine for many, many years, and I really like his work. I love his coaching style, which is really very much, you know, I'm going to make you aware. And I use his text, his book, What Got You Here Won't Get You There. He wrote that which is really a culmination of, you know, I don't know, 40, 50 years of coaching. And he was able to come up with these 20 habits that were at some level of abundance in the leaders he coached. So my first step is read this book and tell me where you think you have opportunity. Then I speak to the stakeholders of that leader. And I ask them, how do you think this leader is in relation to these behaviors? And they tell me. And then I do a heat map and I say, well, Ken, this is what you said. And this is what those that you have to leave said. And there's usually an opportunity there, a target-rich opportunity, I might say.

I think that's brilliant. I mean, I have to say, as a leader, one of the things that was the most eye-opening thing for me besides self-awareness was awareness from your people and that whole concept of that 180 and 360-degree feedback. It absolutely changed, you know, my view. It's like, you know, your view is the mirror, and then when you get their view, it's almost like you're, you know, 4, 5, 6 times the, uh, the view of what's on the other side. So I think that's great. Are there many surprises when you, um, when you work with your coaches on this, uh, on these people you're coaching on this whole aspect?

Yeah, there have been. Um, I think the surprises are, you know, when I share with them the feedback, they kind of go, oh yeah. But then when we talk about, do you know how that behavior impacts others? No. Okay, well, here's something for you to think about. And that's where we really get into it. And then the next step we go on to is we then have the next phase of the coaching is called intention. And we come up with the daily questions. You know, one of the repeat offender behaviors is they don't want to listen. So I have them ask themselves, did I do my best to be a good listener today? Did I do my best to not micromanage today? Did I— whatever it is. And they ask themselves that question on a daily basis and rate themselves from 1 to 10 or 1 to 5. And then we have follow-up calls every 2 weeks and we look for low ratings. What triggered you not to be a good listener on that day? 'Cause we're looking for those triggers. And then finally, or not finally, but then after a period of time, we go back and we readdress the stakeholders again. And funnily enough, behavior changes when you focus on it.

But it's great that you break it out into bite-sized chunks. I think that's some of the problems that we do is we throw our leaders into this big, huge pool expecting them to just grab everything and change. So small pieces, small actions, one at a time.

Yeah, and you know, one of the things that I think is really important, and I talk about a little bit in the book, is you don't change culture by sprinkling fairy dust on an organization. You know, I have a really good friend of mine, his name's Charlie Maloof. He owns a chain of Ashley Furniture stores out in Charlotte, North Carolina, and he shared a statement with me once, and I must quote it, I don't know, all the time. He says, Culture is not a microwavable event. It takes a crockpot approach. And that is so true. I love that.

Ken, that's another one for the t-shirt. Ken's collecting all these amazing slogans. So we will put credit where credit is due. That's a brilliant one.

That's Charlie Maloof.

Absolutely got that one. So Gary, under your leadership, WD-40 became a beacon, kind of an example of what people-first, purpose-led culture can be. What were the non-negotiables that you held on to to make that happen?

Well, you know, there's a, there's a few things that need to be in place, really. Firstly, is does the organisation have a clearly defined and authentic purpose? You know, you've got to have these foundations in place. Do we have a set of values that are hierarchical. And they're there for one reason, that's to protect people and set them free. And then, you know, the leadership has to be committed to the cause of a group of people coming together to protect and feed each other. So, you know, I often said to my leadership group, be under no misunderstanding, the only reason we are here today is to help those we have the privilege to lead step into the best version of their personal self. And that's why we made some subtle but really, really impactful changes. Number 1 is we took the word manager out and we changed it to coach. You reported to your coach, not your manager. And here's why. And this is very simple, but Ken, let's believe that this is your first day at working at, you know, fill in the blank company, right? And you walk in and I say, good morning, Ken. I'm Gary, I'm your manager. Doesn't feel real good. And if you look up in some of the fine English dictionaries, the definition of manager, sometimes it says manipulator. You don't manage people. You manage your bank account and you manage inventory. But if I walk into you one day and as you walk in, I say, good morning, Ken, my name is Gary. I'm your coach. The only reason I'm here today is to help you play the best possible game you can play. I want you to win, and I'm going to do everything I can to help you win. So to do that, we're gonna both understand what an A looks like. What are we going for? What does winning at this team within this organization look like? I'm gonna spend a lot of time, Ken, observing the play of you, and I'm going to never run onto the field and try and kick the ball when you're out there. That's called micromanagement. But we're gonna have conversations around the play. I promise you I'll never go to the podium and take your prize because you would've trained hard to win that prize. I'm going to spend a lot of time in the stinky locker room with you and your other teammates because that's where we build psychological safety. So, you know, that's really important. And then the other thing we did, which was truly meaningful, is we wanted to reduce fear and increase psychological safety. Well, you could say to someone, I'm going to increase psychological safety, and their head kind of swirls. What does that mean? Well, psychological safety is built on a foundation of trust and reduction of fear. So we took the word failure out and we said, we, we, we don't make mistakes here, we have learning moments. And a learning moment is a positive or negative outcome of any situation that needs to be openly and freely shared to benefit all people. Now coincidentally, what was wonderful about that is if you go back to the story of the brand WD-40, that blue and yellow can with a little red top. In 1953, the company was called Rocket Chemical Company. It was a fledgling company in San Diego. There was a problem with condensation and corrosion in the umbilical cord of the Atlas space rocket. The chemists got together and started to formulate product to try and solve that problem. Formula 1 didn't work, nor did 2, nor did 5, or 3rd, or 25. 27 didn't work, nor did 29. 35 didn't work and 39 didn't work either. But guess what? 40 worked. And that's why it's called WD, water displacement, 40th formula. So our success was built on 39 learning moments. So there was, you know, I was fortunate to be able to link those two together. Now, I'm so glad they didn't give up at 39, because if they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation today. And to be honest with you, Deborah and Ken, I'm really glad 39 didn't work because I don't think WD-39 sounds anywhere as good as WD-40. So 100%. So that was a long answer to a simple question. But then there are a couple of other things. You know, we have to make sure— and I talk about it in the book, the Four Pillars— that we care about our people. We love and care about our people enough not only to reward them and applaud them, for doing great work, but we're brave enough to redirect them when their play isn't helping them win. Not protecting our comfort zone at the expense of other people's development, because what happens in a lot of cases, managers protect their comfort zone. They don't want to have that redirection conversation. And the big fear around that is they haven't been clear on what an A looks like. So that conversation gets into a bit of a finger-pointing exercise. The next one is candor— no lying, no faking, no hiding. Most people don't lie in organizations, they fake and hide because of fear. Accountability, and then, is, is really important. What do I expect from you, and what do you expect from me? And then responsibility equals accountability and ownership. And we put together something called the Maniac Pledge, which was our pledge of accountability. And the Maniac Pledge is there to treat a very, very rampant disease that exists in a lot of organizations. Very, very bad disease. It's called the na, na, na, na disease, the finger-pointing disease. Right. So we could say we're not going to finger-point here, or like we did, we again put something together to give them permission. So we created the Maniac Pledge. And the Maniac Pledge says, I am responsible for taking action asking questions, getting answers, and making decisions. I won't wait for someone to tell me. If I need to know, I am responsible for asking. I have no right to be offended that I didn't get this sooner. And if I'm doing something others should know about, I'm responsible for telling them. So that was the pledge that we took in the organization to get rid of the nah, nah, nah, nah disease.

Oh, Gary, that's absolutely fantastic. I can just picture what that— just the change of nomenclature from manager to coach would have made in my last 3 organizations. The amount of conversations I had to have with the managers who reported to me to try to convince them they weren't there to rule with an iron fist. They're there to support their people and grow their people. And they will be better because of it. And Nobody wanted to have that conversation. They all wanted to say, well, can I make them do this? It's like, no, you're asking it completely wrong. Oh man, I tell you, I so wish I'd had this conversation with you 10 years ago. Seriously.

Oh, thank you. That change to coach was so powerful because you could talk to the leader who was the coach and hold them accountable. I could talk to the people that I was the coach of and say, Under no misunderstanding, what are you doing to help that person win? Do you know what's getting in their way? Or by the way, do you know the game? Or have you let them down by not understanding yourself what it takes to win? And you could have these conversations and they were meaningful and they were actionable.

Wow, Deb, we're gonna have to book Gary about 6 more times because I sense we've got a lot to learn from this guy.

I know, I know. It's interesting though when you talk about this move from manager to coach. And I think it is very brave of you to do that. Some organizations I've heard are trying to shake things up and move to like self-led teams, which I get how the world has changed. You don't necessarily need a manager. But I love the concept of coach. As a matter of fact, when we were creating our building blocks, leadership building blocks, Originally, we were going to sort of have underdevelopment coaching. And after talking to you, we're like, no way. It is such an important mindset change. It needs to have its own building block. And I guess my question to you specific to coaching is how did you get people to embrace it? Because it's very different. So, the existing people that you had, I'm not going to call them managers. How did you get them to do that shift? And then, How did you going forward recruit people who, you know, signed on the dotted line and got what you were trying to do?

Well, firstly, you know, there's a very simple question, and I would ask you this question, Deborah, if you were on my team. How would it feel if your role in this company was truly dedicated to helping other people succeed? Wouldn't that feel good when you went home at night? Instead of trying to direct them. And then, you know, we, we— it took time. We had a program in the company called Coaches Coaching Coaches. So, you know, we didn't just say you are going to be a coach. We said you are going to be a coach. This is what a great coach looks like. This is what getting an A looks like as being a coach. Look, don't be overwhelmed. And, you know, we broke it down to, you know, those, those simple aspects. We didn't try to overcomplicate it. But you know, we had a great— we had what I call the coaching contract. And I could sit with you very quickly and say, okay, here's your coaching contract. A great coach is committed to helping the player get an A. So make sure you know what an A looks like. And you know, I wrote a book with Ken Blanchard called Helping People Win at Work, where we talk about getting an A. And I could say to them, you need to know the game and what it takes to win as a coach. So how am I going to help you understand, and what competencies do you need to polish up on so you really know the game? And then with the, the principles I talk about, you're not going to run on the field, you're going to spend a lot of time on the sideline, you're going to add value to the player with feedback on how to improve, you never go into the podium, and you know, you're going to spend a lot of time in the stinky locker room. Those are the simple things you need to do, and you're going to have regular, disciplined conversations with your people at, at minimum every 90 days. Every 90 days you're going to sit down and say, Ken and Deborah, I'm only here for one reason right now, and that's to have a conversation about how I can help you and talk about where you're— where I see areas you may need to focus a little deeper on, or, or to hear where you need help.

Yeah. And you know, it's so powerful as a coach. But also, I can imagine that it also had a mindset shift for the employees themselves because they had to take that responsibility, you know, differently than having a manager. So again, what did you do to help your team, your employees? What did you call them at WD-40?

Tribe members.

That's what it is. Tribe members. What did you do to get your tribe members to embrace it? And step up to, you know, you need to work differently with a coach versus a manager?

Well, they loved it because, you know, they weren't being managed. They were being helped to improve. Interestingly enough, in our employee feedback surveys, 97% of our global team or tribe said they respected their coach. Now, in most cases, people leave their organization because they hate their boss, right? It's like saying, if I had the word manager in there, I respect my manager, do you think we would have got a high score? Because the manager's behavior would have been completely different from the coach's behavior. And when we went back and we asked them, why do you respect your coach? They said, because they're here to help me.

Duh. Whereas a manager, they're there to manage me, which has more of the negative side of it. So it is, I think it's lovely in the point that that you make over and over again with how you're changing words is that words can be powerful. You have to back it up. But I mean, you've really been leading over the last 10, 20, 30, 25 years on trying to rewrite the words that we use in the workplace. And yeah, no, I absolutely love that. Thank you for that on behalf of all of us in the workplace.

Absolutely. As you're talking, Gary, I just want to keep jumping up and down going, "Yeah, yeah, yeah!" You say leadership. Starts with the heart, moves to the head, and then the hands. Should all leaders be servant leaders, or are there scenarios where decisiveness must override humility?

Servant leader is not about just having a soft heart. We have to have a heart of gold and a backbone of steel. You know, leadership is a balance between being tough-minded and tender-hearted. And the genius is in the end, in the middle. So, you know, a servant leader isn't someone who's always forgiving, but they certainly always have empathy. But, you know, I've had many, many redirecting conversations in my time as a leader. And, you know, if you're at either end of that, if you're too tough-minded, you become that arrogant autocrat. And if you're too tender-hearted, people don't think that you're going to be able to make tough decisions. So servant leadership is not about popcorn, pizzas, and margarita parties. It's about putting in place those foundations and then consistently working on them aligned with the values of the organization. So, you know, I'm an Aussie. You think I'm a softie?

Come on. It's interesting. When we were researching our book and we were writing the part on empathy and compassion, there was a story about an FBI negotiator. And he talked about how, yes, he was empathetic and tried to understand, you know, what he had to do in these hostage situations. But he didn't necessarily— well, he absolutely didn't agree with what they're doing. And I think one of the things going back to your idea of being soft and such is some people think as CEOs and leaders, you can't make the tough decision. So I guess my question to you is how have you balanced throughout your career as a CEO, you know, being a servant leader, empathy and compassion, but sometimes making those tough decisions? How do you get that balance right?

I think you need to make sure that the values in the organization are in place and In most cases, you make decisions around those values. You know, I often said no good deed goes unpunished. So, you know, you never go— this is not a popular— leadership's not a popularity contest. It's a contact sport. And, you know, certainly I had to make decisions during my time that not everybody agreed with, but the decisions were made in the best interests of everybody.. And to do that, I needed to gather the facts, get good advice, consider the options, think about the outcomes, and ask for a lot of help. You know, as you've probably heard me say, I often used to say, g'day, I'm Gary Ridge. I'm the consciously incompetent, probably wrong, and roughly right chairman and CEO of WD-40 Company, and I need all the help I can get. And, you know, So again, you bring people into the conversation, you bring people as you can into the situation, you're searching for outcomes, socializing the issues. But that takes time. You know, a lot of people think this servant leadership culture thing is soft stuff. This is not soft. This is the hardest part of leadership. And I can tell you why I know that, because not many people do it because it's too hard. You know, you look at the latest Gallup results that came out and what, 31, only 31% of people globally go to work engaged. That's disgusting. Disgusting. We should be absolutely ashamed of sending 69% of people home every day disengaged, sitting around their dinner table at night. And some of their family or their kids say, hey, Dad, how was work today? And they talk about how much they hate it. And do you think those kids are going to go out and want to go to work? No way. I don't want to be like Dad. He comes home every night. He's cranky. Why do I? I've got to find something else to do. Maybe I won't work anymore. Maybe I'll just go sit on the beach.

I'll be happy there. Or they accept it and they're like, well, this is just what the workplace is like and I'm never going to be engaged. And no, I agree. And, you know, we've been around, all of us, long enough to see that those numbers aren't changing. And you just want to shake people. And to your point, You know, it might be a bit more work to do some of those, you know, those behavioral changes, but in the long run, it makes things easier as a leader, better for your business, all those types of things happening.

Well, you hit on it— better for the business, absolutely. You know, we had a compounded annual growth rate of total shareholder return of 15% a year. We took the market cap of the company from $300 million to $3.6 $6 billion. You know, we had employee engagement at 93%. 98% of the people said they love to tell people they worked at the company. And we just sold that blue and yellow can with a little red top. Wasn't sexy, are you? So, you know, and here's the simple equation for the leaders out there that think building a great culture is not going to be good for your business. We can write the best strategic plan in the world. We've got a really strong strategic plan. We've identified our target market, our go-to-market strategy. We know our distribution, you know, all that is in place. 70 out of 100 for your strategic plan. But if 30% of people go to work every day and enthusiastically executing against the strategic plan, 30 times 70 is a number. But if 80% of the people are going to work every day and enthusiastically executing against the strategic plan, 80 times 70 is a much bigger number. So it's all about the will of the people times the strategy. High will of the people, reasonable strategy, great outcome. Low will of the people, reasonable strategy, lousy outcome.

You know, it just fascinates me because I can remember when I met you at this event and I used the analogy of an American football team and I did exactly what you said. I had like a full football team And then I got rid of the disengaged people. And I'm like, how can you engage people? So I'm gonna put you on the spot. What do we have to do to convince these CEOs? We keep showing them the data. We keep showing them that leading the way you are absolutely role modeling and changing at WD-40. What do you think is gonna finally make a difference and get people on board?

We have to keep proving the equation to them and giving them evidence. One of the things that I'm fortunate in that I can talk to CEOs about this, and if they say it doesn't work, I can call BS. I said, because it does work, we proved it. And, you know, one of the things I think there's also a light at the end of the tunnel. It's not a train coming for us either. Today, more and more leaders, organizations, and investors are truly talking about the advantage of great culture in an organization. And I'm not talking about DE&I and everything else. You know, it's pretty simple. If you have an organization where people know and feel like they belong, they know and feel like they matter and their work makes a difference, there's high psychological safety because fear is reduced through having learning moments, not mistakes. They feel valued because their coach is there to help them win, and they are able to make choices because you have a set of values that protect them and set them free. If you have those things and you're consistently executing against those things in whatever way you will, you will over time create a very, very strong and engaged culture. Very simple.

Not easy. I'd like to disagree with you on one thing though. Going back, you said that the little can with the red top is not sexy. Now, first off, for every workshop I've ever had, that can was mandatory. It had to be there. It wasn't a workshop until you had that in there. So, that's one kind of sexy. But on the other hand, I bet those 98% of people who had high satisfaction within your organization I bet every last one of them found working at WD-40 sexy when they would talk to their friends and their friends would moan about how bad life is or how their boss had treated them or whatever. So just for the record, I can now say I finally disagreed with somebody who I really revere. I bet they really found it sexy.

Well, I accept your disagreement.

Thank you. Now, one of the things that I caught in your book, and I know you were quoting somebody else on this one, but you broke failure down, not failure, but these learning moments into intelligent, basic, and complex failure. And that's fantastic. I tried to imagine how I could use that in my previous roles. How can an organization make a policy out of this so that they can identify which kind of failure is which and do it without killing innovation or trust. So we're not going to do this one, but we are going to do that one.

That would mean them doing one thing. And the person I was referring to was Amy Edmondson. And here is her book, The Right Kind of Wrong. And this is where she actually breaks out the science of failing well. So I'm not smart enough to be able to give you this verbatim. Go buy her book. Uh, it's one of the, it's one of the best. Um, and that's why I quoted it in the, in, in my book. I, I, and she wrote a, a beautiful, um, recommendation for my book as well. So, and funnily enough, I just happen to have it over here on my bookshelf.

That's now on my, on my reading list. Thank you very much for that.

She's, she's written quite a few books books that are absolutely amazing. Yeah, she's one of those people along with you where as soon as I hear they have a new book coming out, it's like, when, when, when? So, I'm based in the UK and your book came out in the US first. And you know me, I'm like, when's it coming? When's it coming? We need to read it over here. So, no, love it. I'm going to go back to something that you talked about before, which was values. And I think I've interviewed you actually for all of my books. But one of the books that I interviewed you on was values. And I did it for a couple of reasons. First of all, I thought your values were brilliant. But also, the way you used your values was it wasn't just words on a wall. I mean, I can remember like on your website, when you'd apply for a job, you'd have the values and then you'd click and it would say, are you sure you can live these values? So maybe talk a little bit about how you were, how and why you were so intentional with your values and what difference it made for your business and your people.

Well, you know, I have to thank my dear, dear, dear, dear friend and mentor, Ken Blanchard, for his wisdom around values. When I was, you know, back in the year 2000, when I was doing my master's degree in leadership and Ken was my professor at USD, he did a great session on, you know, values need to protect people and set them free. A lot of people think values are rules and regulations. They're not. They have to be living statements that protect people and set them free. And the other thing that he said, which was beautiful, he said, and they need to be hierarchical. In other words, you know, they— the most powerful one needs to be at 1, and then you go down. So our number 1 value is we value doing the right thing. And number 2 value is we value creating positive lasting memories in all of our relationships. And number 3 was we value making it better than it is today. And number 4 was we value excelling as a tribe while winning as an individual. Owning and acting on it was the next one. And then we value sustaining the WD-40 economy was the final one. And we used to, and they still do at the company, use these in decision-making processes all the time so we could reflect on them. And my goal was, as we were expanding globally, which is one of the things that I was, you know, challenge to do with the, with the brand. As I said, you know, the sun was never going to set on the company. Somewhere around the world at any time in the day, someone needed to make a decision. So how do we give them the values that allows them to make that decision without what Ken used to talk about, quacking up the hierarchy, trying to get to someone to make a decision? And as I shared, what are the 5 things that needed to be in place earlier? Allowing people to make choices was one of those. So, you know, a number of times someone would come to me and say, you know, I need to make a decision on this. What would you do, Gary? I said, well, if you were using our values to make this decision, what would you do? And they would go blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, well, you've made the decision. Those are there to help you make that decision.

Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes when I do workshops, I get like glasses and put the values like this is the lens you should be looking through. But what's really interesting, of all the companies I interviewed and researched when I was doing my values work, nobody put them in hierarchical order but you. And I love that because sometimes they get in opposition and you need to figure out which one to use. So I think you made it easier for your employees by doing that.

And I proved that, you know, I taught at the University of San Diego for 16 years and I taught the class in the master's program on culture.. And one of the workshops that I did was based on values. And I wrote a case study that had a lot of twists and turns in it. And I said to the group, here's a case study. I'm going to divide you into 3 groups. And I want you to take the case study. I want you to read the case study. And I want you back here in 30 minutes with your recommendation on your actions based on this case study. Now, here's the rules. Group 1, you have a set of values and they're hierarchical. Group 2, you have a set of values and they're not hierarchical. Group 3, you can do whatever you want. And at that time, Group 3 were applauding. They felt they were so free. I don't know how many times I ran this simulation. The exact thing happened every time. The first group back with a solid recommendation, still smiling, were Group 1, who had the hierarchical set of values because they were given the framework to make a decision without debating which one is more important, whatever. The second group back was the one that had the values, but they weren't hierarchical. They, they were still a little fuzzy on what they really wanted to recommend. The group with nothing, they came back. I actually always had to go out and call them in. And, and they were, they were at a state of— you could even feel anger amongst them because they spent all their own time cementing their own point of view instead of using this. So the other thing about a hierarchical set of values in an organization is it reduces churn. You actually get stuff done. Without people having to churn through, and they feel good about themselves.

So very powerful, very powerful.

Yeah, I love it. Spectacular.

Wow.

One of the chapter titles caught my eye, Even the Queen Sits Down to Pee. Now, obviously, that's really memorable. It's going to stick with people. But it talks about authenticity. It's one of the leadership building blocks in our model. Why do you think so many leaders, especially at the top, still struggle to show their real selves?

They didn't have my mum. Well, you know that the chapter is one where I reflect on the learning from my mother who lived till she was 99 years and 9 months old. She was born in 1914. You know, being an Aussie and growing up in Sydney and having a mum that had lived— and I was the, the last of the children. There were 12 years difference between me and my brother. So Mum was 40-something when she had me, and she was so good at dishing out unconditional love, which means that, you know, she would cut the legs out from underneath you if you got too big for your boots and, you know, whatever. So I think it comes back to— in the book, I tell the story about having a cup of tea with Mum and the tea, the saucer and the teacup that I still have here in my home where, you know, she would give me the feedback that I know I deserved, but not necessarily everyone was brave enough to give it to me. So I keep in that chapter, it's the learning moment in that chapter is you need to be a mother and a son. You need to be brave enough to give unconditional love and feedback. And as a son, you need to accept it and just say thank you and move on. So authenticity, the tall poppy syndrome in Australia, you know, really taking time to not get too big for your boots. You know, you're not corporate royalty. You know, one of the bad behaviors of Alec, the soul-sucking CEO, is he thinks he's— or she thinks they're corporate royalty. You know, they'll have their own parking spot. They have the biggest office in the room. They'll never be in the canteen, the cafeteria, because someone's serving tea to their desk. You know, they've spent their life climbing this corporate ladder, and therefore they shall be bowed down to as the king. Well, no. Even the Queen does sit down to pee.

Fantastic. Now, that's absolutely rules to live by. I don't know how some people get so up themselves that they just distort the whole fabric of the organization.

But it's interesting though, because if I think about it, and it's quite funny that, you know, you talk about your mom because when I was writing one of my books with my CEO, we shared it with his mom. And we have this model called the Engagement Bridge Model. And she goes, "Aren't these all the things I taught you as a child? Aren't these the things that we taught you?" And I almost feel like we're going back to what we were taught as children because I don't know about you, Gary and Ken. But when I was growing up as a leader, I was taught wrong. I was wrongly taught that I needed to act like I was in that top level. I couldn't be authentic. I couldn't be vulnerable. So, you know, it's almost like you're challenging people to unlearn the things that we were taught to do.

I'm looking to see if I had my other book there, but I think I mentioned it. The book that I read every summer is my favorite book. It's Everything You Need to Know You Learned in Kindergarten by Robert Fulghum. Say please and thank you. Pick up after yourself. Don't steal. If you go out at night, hold someone's hand. You know, these lessons you learned in kindergarten are really the lessons that if you take them and you lay them in place in business, that's the goal. So another book to read is Everything You Need to Know You Learned in Kindergarten. And as a leader, if you read that book and just, and just use those principles in leadership, you will win. Yeah.

Now I love your whole concept too. Learning and development because it's like it's a village. You've shared so many amazing books out there and we appreciate it. So besides your book, you're also sharing others. So, we could talk to you forever. Absolutely. We might have to do another one with you. But if you had to sort of bring it into one piece of advice, one key takeaway, which I know is really, really hard, something that they can just start doing tomorrow, today, whatever. What do you think that would be?

It's not about you. It's about the people you have the privilege to lead. That said, I have a little tool. If you go to my website, www.thelearningmoment.net, up on the top banner it says quiz. You can do your power of dumbassery quiz. And I will give you a dumbassery grade after you do the quiz. The higher your dumbassery, the better leader you are. And after you've done the quiz, I will email you a playbook that has 4, 3 or 4 things you can start doing just this week to implement the power of dumbassery.

I love it. It's a wonderful gift. I know I was glad when you said the higher score is better because Ken told me just today how he took it and he had a really high score. So that's good. I was a bit worried when he said it was a high score. I didn't know if that was good or bad.

The higher the score is your proficiency of dumbassery, which is your superpower.

Dumbassery is your superpower.

Great.

And it's so wonderful of you to give everybody that gift and to give everybody something that's specific to them. So I think it's a really good high level for everyone. And then if you want to take it to the next level and get that one thing that you can do differently, definitely go on to Gary's website, which is a good segue into what is the best way for people to contact you. They're going to get your book, they're going to go on your website. Where can they continue to learn from the gems of wisdom that you're sharing with us?

Probably best platform is LinkedIn. You'll find me there. I actually have the School of Dumb Mastery on LinkedIn, so you can enroll in the School of Dumb Mastery and we share lessons around that from time to time. But LinkedIn, for some reason, I have, I don't know, 120,000 people who have nothing to do that follow me around on that. But I try to make sure, and I'm very grateful and I'm thankful for that.

Thank you. So what do you— here's this question. You have a school of dumbassery. What do you do on your graduation? How do you, how do you celebrate when you graduate from the school of dumbassery? You never graduate. Oh, I love it. You're right.

We're always learning.

It's perpetual in nature. There you go. Another gem, another nugget of wisdom. So thank you so, so much, Gary. We really appreciate your time. We know that you're running here, there, and everywhere with your book, your training, and everything. So thank you so much. And I hope everyone learned as much as we did today.

Delightful conversation. And thank both of you for going the yards you go to get this message out, because, you know, we have a mission. We all have a mission to make the world a better place. And by helping people build better cultures, we will positively impact the world. And a little happier world right now wouldn't be a bad thing. I agree.

So go out and have a happy day.

Thank you very much. What a privilege.

Thank you, Gary.

You're welcome. And that's a wrap on this episode of Curiosity Unleashed. Huge thanks to our amazing guests and of course to you for tuning in.

We hope you picked up some useful tips. And hey, if this episode sparked a minor existential crisis because you realized, oops, you might might be guilty of this at your company, don't panic.

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