4 tell-tale signs you're a serial multitasker - EP #105 - Lauren Kress

G', day, guys. Dan here with this week's episode of the how to Scale a Video Business podcast. And this week we are going high, bro. Well, kind of. We're going to be delving into the world of neuroscience with a real life actual neuroscientist. Lauren Kress is very entertaining, incredibly knowledgeable, and really her focus is on using neuroscience to understand how we operate as human beings, but how we apply that to business. Now she has a bachelor of science with honors of neuroscience in physiology and psychology. She has honors research at the Translation Neuroscience facility at University New South Wales, and she's got a master's in cross disciplinary art and design, creative thinking, interactive media, and advertising for a global marketplace. So she's incredibly qualified. But actually what she was able to do in this episode was break down some of the reasons we do things the way we do them, some of the behavior patterns we have. We talk about things like neuroplasticity, things like why do we, why do we think a certain way and then act a certain way and how does that impact our business making decisions? So I really enjoyed recording this with Lauren. We had a real laugh doing it, but it's full of incredible information that will help you understand why you think and act the way you do. So do enjoy.

So, Lauren, I am super excited to talk to you because you are in a space which is so in my lane of exciting things to explore neuroscience and its role in business. So talk to me a little bit about how you found yourself mixing the two.

Well, Dan, firstly, I'm really excited to chat with you too. And I'm so excited that you talk about neuroscience and business because a lot of the time people just say science and business. And what does that mean? I'm like, well, like, you know, there's lots of areas of science, but I guess, you know, the big thing about business is we're dealing with people, right? Like, you can't have a business without people, even if you're a business of one. We have lots of stakeholders we need to deal with. We have lots of, you know, people we want to influence, obviously to buy our products or our services. So neuroscience has a massive role and science also has a massive role because we want to understand, okay, what makes the brain. Well, what do we know about the brain? How do we make decisions? So, you know, what motivates us, what drives us? What drives and motivates our staff? What drives and motivates our customers? So it's really important to understand and it doesn't mean you have to you know, study neuroscience, but just understand some of the things that we've learned in the behavioral sciences and in neuroscience that informs, you know, how we can, I guess, implement best practices in business as sort of an applied science, really.

So I work with a lot of filmmakers, and filmmakers typically are very creative and find the monotony of business process challenging and can often be distracted and will always find something else to do that shinier than the discipline required to build a business. So what can you share about how the brain works that will help our audience understand their own brains a little more? Because I think when we're growing up, we're sort of told the brain is the biggest muscle in the body and it's this, like a supercomputer. And that's kind of the limit of what we're taught until we get later in life we start to discover it's a bit more going on than that.

Yeah. So, I mean, there's still so much we don't know about the brain, which I think just makes it such a fascinating area of science, you know. But firstly, I'll just say, like, I am with creatives on this. Like, I'm actually a very creative person. And like, I totally understand. Understand that desire to search for new things, to be open to new ideas, and to be in that state of flow, you know, to be in that state of flow where you kind of just have like, all these different ideas connecting and you're like, oh, I just want to explore this and see what happens. And I want to spend my time doing this. I don't want to spend my time doing, like, bookkeeping. Geez, like, why would I want to do that? Right.

Completely get that. And there's a fantastic book that sort of talks about what's going on in terms of these different modes of thinking. It's called the Organized Mind by Daniel Levitin, and he's a neuropsychologist. One of the things he sort of explains early on in the book is that our mind sort of operates in two modes. So one mode is called the executive mode. The executive mode is when we're like, doing tasks. So let's say in the video world, like, you've got. You're packaging a video together, you're editing it, you've got like, your folder system, you've got your file system, you're like, okay, cool, I could have got a bang through this stuff. And I've got all these tasks I need to do and these sort of checkpoints I have along the way. That's a Very executive kind of mode that we're in. In that mode, we're great at getting stuff done, but we're not great at connecting ideas and problem solving. So that's where we sort of need our creative frame to switch on. So say you get to a point, you're like, there's something in this story that just isn't working. There's something in the way I'm threading this story together. I don't know what it is, but it doesn't look right. And what we can do is we get really, really stuck in that. We kind of go around in a circle, like a loop, like the narrative's not right, but I don't know what's wrong with the narrative. Let me try this, let me try this, let me try this. And then if we can kind of take a step back and go, okay, I'm just going to go for a walk or I'm just gonna go have a shower or listen some music or that kind of thing, right? What happens is our brain switches into another mode of thinking, which is called mind wandering mode. And that mode tends to switch on when we're bored. So, you know, it's kind of something we talk about a lot as creatives, is like, you need boredom. You need boredom to have those creative ideas. And so when we're up against a problem, we really want to switch that mode of thinking on now to tie it back into what that has to do with business. It's sort of the same kind of thing. Because in business we need to be creative and we also need to be sometimes in that task oriented mode. So if we can. Kind of. One thing that I find really, really helpful is just doing sort of like a bullet journal. So having sort of like my bullet list of like, here's all the things I need to do, here's my process for business, just like my creative process. And you know, these are the things I have to tick off. But I also need to have gaps in my day to fuel that other side of my brain. So I actually think in some ways creatives are at an advantage because a lot of people struggle with being in that other state, with being in that state of boredom, mind wandering mode, you know, connecting ideas together. And that's actually super powerful for coming up with innovative ideas in business. Right? It's super powerful for solving difficult problems. And you know, those problems that we come up against, like banging our head against a brick wall. Like, creatives have so much value to add in business, but we also just need to understand okay, Maybe sometimes we need to just do those tasks, you know?

Well, I mean, it's so interesting because I just. As last week, I'm a big fan of, you know, taking time out and going. I drove half an hour from my house here in Noosa, found the lake, sat with the do, and spent six hours planning. And of that, six hours, two and a half hours was actually pen to paper. The other time was thinking I had a little nap. It was like, it was awesome. And I came away, I came home and I thought, I feel like I've been on holiday today. So I know the power of that. But one of the challenges that I hear my members and people listen to this podcast say to me, it's like, I just don't have time to go and do nothing for half a day. But can you share why? Actually, creating space and taking breaks away from the desk and the computer is just so important.

Yeah. So I guess the thing is, if we're not allowing ourselves to have that time, well, there's a couple of things that can happen. One, we start working really inefficiently. So because that executive mode of thinking is switched on.

We can get in these sort of loops. We can go like, oh, you know, like, I've done this before. If you feel really overwhelmed with tasks, I do this way too much, actually. But I know the solution, but I still struggle with it. If you're trying to sort of, like, multitask, you're trying to do lots of things because you're feeling really overwhelmed. I don't have time. I don't have time to take time off. I don't even have time to go to the bathroom. I've got to get all this stuff done right. And what can happen is, because we're in this sort of state of panic, we start not making very good decisions because we're kind of in this reactive mode. So we're like, okay, all right, I'm going to open Adobe Premiere Pro. While that's happening, I'm going to go over on Facebook and post this video that I had. Then I'm going to send an email to this client. And then, you know, and we start opening up all these tasks at the same time. So suddenly, you know, and you see this with a lot of creative people. You'll have, like, 20 tabs open on your Google Chrome. You'll have four different video projects open. You'll have, you know, your. Your graphics. Maybe you're doing graphics as well at the same time. You're doing all of these things. And we think we're getting more done because we were doing that. Right. But what's actually happening is, is our brains just switching between all these tasks really quickly. So if you've ever had that experience where you know, you're like, hang on, wait, how did I get here? Like, what was I doing again? I think a lot of us have that, right? That's because our mind just isn't very good at doing lots of things, especially in that executive mode of thinking. Right. So what we're much better off doing is kind of sitting ourselves down and going, okay, right. I've got, and it will depend on the person. For me, I find a window of about 50 to 90 minutes is really good for me. For some people that's too long. But I'm like, okay, I've got 50 to 90 minutes depending on what the task is. Say if it's a, like a planning thing, you know, like you mentioned you had a six hour plan. Like if it's a planning thing, I'm like, I need a good chunk of time. So, okay, this is what I'm going to do in this chunk. I'm just going to do this. I'm not going to check my emails, I'm not going to go on social media, I'm going to work on getting this article out, say for instance. But then after that time, what happens is our brain starts to fatigue. We can't be in that sort of mode for too long. So some people might be familiar with the Pomodoro method, which is about taking these breaks. Taking the break actually allows us to come back with fresh eyes and finish tasks or start new tasks. Our brain won't function that well otherwise. So we just end up being inefficient, feeling fatigued and kind of getting to the end of the day feeling like I didn't even really accomplish anything because we're trying to do lots and lots of tasks and we're worried about time and it ends up actually being.

It works against us, you know, that that time pressure works against us. So I mean, does that fully answer your question? You want me to.

Yeah, I mean it's so aligned with how I kind of run my business. I love it. And what's interesting, I mean, you and I have never spoken before, apart from a quick message on LinkedIn. Both pretty hectically busy and we didn't have much of a chat before this call. And it's so fascinating that everything you're saying is exactly how I try and encourage everyone I come into to work with to kind of perform in that method, because we are, you know, if you've ever tried to chase two rabbits in a field, you catch neither. And it's the same with dealing with the tasks that you need to achieve in a day. And I think that what I'm taking from that is that as creatives, discipline is good for us because if you create space in the day to work on certain tasks, you'll actually become more creative. What's your experience of deploying discipline to create structure within your day that actually aids creativity, doesn't to take away from it.

Yeah. So again, something I struggle with personally, because I'm the same, right? I'm so the same. But the big thing that I've found is because discipline is an area that I'm like, oh, like, you know, it's almost like that feeling of like, I want to procrastinate because I don't want to have to, like, do these things. What I found super, super helpful was not procrastinating about writing a list. So I'm like, okay, Lauren, you can procrastinate about stuff. If you want to, like, go and have a coffee at the beach for a bit to chat, you can do that. But you have to write this list. It will only take you five minutes, but you have to write this list. And so just by being able to say that to myself and see, sit down and go, okay, where is everything at? What's happening? What do I need to do? Once I had the list, I was like, oh, well, I can tick off those four things. That's super easy. Right? So it's kind of just like bulleting those things out. Not like massive long essays of lists, just like email to Sarah, those kind of lists. Right.

For me personally, what I found is that once I kind of did the first few things, I would feel pretty good. And so that would set up my day to kind of go, okay, this feels good to get stuff done. I'm ticking off all of these things and actually going through and ticking them off. When we tick things off, we actually get a little dopamine hit. So like our. It feels good to go check. Done.

So what you're saying is our brain actually likes reward, so it actually rewards us with dopamine.

It rewards us with dopamine for getting things done. And I'm sure, like, even, you know, people who have massively procrastinated when they've. They've finished something, right? Like when you do actually do something, you feel so good, like, ah, I did it. I finished the project, I was procrastinating about it. And I think. Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but I think it's because we're often perfectionists, right? We want things. We have this. People who are highly imaginative and highly creative have this idea already in their head of what something should look like.

Entrepreneurs do this as well. This is my vision of what this should look like and what this needs to be and what I can see on paper or what I can see in this video that's not there yet, but I don't know how to fix it. So then we procrastinate because it's like, am I not good enough? Did I like, why do I have this vision in my head, but I can't make it happen, Right? And I think that this is where the breaks become so important, because those breaks are often where we have those little, oh, I know what I need to do. I know how to solve this problem. Now I'm just missing this.

I think that getting that balance between being productive, but also allowing ourselves to go, hang on, I've hit a problem, just not going to try to solve it yet. Let me. Let my brain just do its thing and then I'll come back to it. But we do need the discipline of. You know, I've heard a lot of writers talking about this, which is like, just sit at your desk. You know, just sit at your desk with a piece of paper, with your laptop, whatever it is, just sit there. Because when you sit there, that's when you'll get stuff done. That's when you'll do the work. Or if we're kind of not even bringing ourselves to that space, then we can't do the work.

You know, I love what you said there about not being good enough, because as entrepreneurs and as creative entrepreneurs. I was having lunch with Gideon Sharwick, a friend of mine who runs a company called Splash U, and he was on the podcast a few months back, and we were just saying, because as entrepreneurs, we never feel good enough. That's what drives us. And I think as creatives, it's the same. It's accepting and becoming comfortable with the fact that not feeling good enough or not feeling like you're enough isn't actually a negative thing. You can use it as a powerful force.

So it rolls me on to kind of, you know, the idea of a cognitive bias because we don't feel good enough because of something else, which is what's called a cognitive bias. Like we are allowing ourselves to behave away in the future. Behaving away in today and the present and the future based on what happened in the past. Can you talk a bit more? How cognitive biases impact decision making?

Yeah. So I love this topic and there's so many great resources about it because there's so many different types of cognitive biases, firstly. So if you go on Wikipedia and you look up cognitive biases or examples of cognitive, you'll get like lists of like hundreds. There are so many things that our brain is either conditioned to believe or is wired to believe that isn't true. So the way I kind of just, just for people who are like, I haven't heard of this concept of cognitive bias before. Like, one of the things to understand is basically that like our, our brain sort of. It's a lazy pattern recognition machine. It is amazing, but it is a lazy pattern recognition machine.

It's always looking for the simplest way to solve a problem, isn't it? It's not looking to do a lot of work.

It doesn't want to do a lot of work. So, you know, that's why a lot of the time when we write copy and when we, when we put our creative pieces together, we're trying to make the story really clear to people. So I don't have to do a lot of. We don't want big complicated words in there. You know, we don't want to make people think too hard because their brain will just switch off. It's like anything in our body. It's designed to be efficient. Like we've only, you know, I mean, when our brains evolved, we didn't necessarily have the ample amount of food we have around us now, right. So it was like, how do you, you know, get. And the brain is a very fussy organ. It will only use glucose to fuel it. So it needs sugar. And like, sugar is something that takes a bit of work for the body to create. Again, in the, in the past, it took a bit of effort to create, right? So it's this very like, resource heavy part of our bodies. And so, yeah, when we start doing, like really difficult tasks, it uses a lot of energy. You burn more calories from reading than if you do when you're just sitting down. Right. Because it makes sense.

That's the headline for the diet industry.

Right?

You want to lose weight, read books. I'm not a health expert. Do not take.

Government health warning.

So what happens is when we're trying to. This is in a book called Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman. He did a lot of work in this Area. Talking about these sort of, like, again, there are two modes of thinking. So you have your type one and your type two. Type one is like your super. I think I've got this right way around. Hopefully you're super reactive, like quick thinking, automatic, you know, sort of autopilot mode of your brain. So. And that makes a lot of important decisions for us. When we're driving a car and we just hit the brakes before we even realize what's going on. That's. That's that part of our brain working for us going, there was something weird going on with that car. I'm just going to hit the brakes because, like, your life's in danger. Really, really important. It saves our lives. Many.

That's your fight or flight, isn't it? It's like, I'm in danger, stop.

And it will happen before consciously we even really process what's happened. Right. Like, it just happens so, so quickly. So the fight or flight mode is part of that that involves like another sort of biochemical system as well. All of this stuff is very interesting.

I love it.

So we can't get too angry at our brains for having cognitive biases because this is the part of our brain that causes this to happen. Basically, it's making fast decisions because it thinks it's threatened or it thinks it's, you know, it just doesn't want to spend the energy doing it. And, you know, that can have a whole heap of impacts on the way we work and the decisions we make. The other type of thinking mode we have is type 2. It's a slow thinking mode. It's the one that allows us to kind of contemplate and go, hmm, like, but is that necessarily right? Is that really why we made that decision? It's the part that helps us not be biased in the decisions that we make. But it uses more calories, it uses more energy, and we have to kind of almost even know that there is this, like, we need to kind of switch it on consciously. Right? So in a business context, what can happen when we're in a meeting? Say, for instance, say you're in a meeting and you're. Well, for people listening to this, probably it's more likely you're in a meeting, not with your boss, but with a client, and the client's a difficult client. They put a lot of pressure on you and you don't feel that comfortable around them, and maybe you don't feel like you're good enough around them, you know, and you kind of. So you're probably already in A bit of a state of anxiety and fear. Now, when that happens, we're much more likely to be in that autopilot mode, because that's the mode that protects us. Right. When we're in that sort of, like I said before, that sort of fight or flight, what's, you know, what's going to happen. I feel in danger. We're going to. Not necessarily feel comfortable to sit there and go, okay, hang on, let me. Let me switch this other part of my brain on. So we might not say things that we think are true. We might not speak up. We might kind of just go, okay, like, yeah, they're right. And, you know, we kind of make poor decisions as a result of that, where if we can kind of take a step back from that. And I think this is why so much of, like, entrepreneurialism and creating your best work and all those things are to do with our own psychology and our mindset. It's almost like we have to have the inner confidence to kind of go, hang on, I just want to. I just want to pick up on what you said before. You know, is that I don't think that's the right direction for this project. The reason is blah. Like, that's a hard thing to do when we're fearful and we don't feel good enough, you know, so the cognitive biases to make it more concrete, I'm really given any examples, but a common one in business is groupthink. So it's sort of like when you have these power plays in a room, you know, like the client and, you know, these other people that you see as sort of like, higher up than you, we can just tend to agree with them. And a lot of people will do that. So you end up, instead of having this meeting that's collaborative and exploring ideas and getting the best answer, it's like, what does the most powerful person in the room think? And let's all just agree with that.

Yeah. So the kind of. The egos kind of come out, and it's like the more dominant, perhaps more masculine personality will just dominate and take over.

Exactly. And we see it also happening, like the way we hire people. So, you know, if you write a job description a certain way, there are all these things that we don't necessarily even realize we're writing into the job description that will bias the job and who gets selected for the job.

It will, you know, for someone who takes things very literally, a job description that says something like, oh, you know, you need to be able to, you know, I heard this example from someone else, like, you need to be able to shred a main guitar. Some people will take that literally. Oh, I've got all the job requirements, but I can't shred a mean guitar, so I can't apply for the role. Right. Like. And that's. That's actually happened. So there's just all of these things that I guess.

We can. That just make it really, really difficult to get to an unbiased answer or an unbiased decision.

Unless we're aware of them.

So this is fascinating. I mean, we will have to come back and do more on this because it's remarkable. Would barely touching the surface, but.

I think is interesting. So, you know, and I don't touch on this because it's a whole new topic, but it's like, you know, I'm just how I am because that's how that's who I am. You know, it's that kind of idea that you have to accept that's your personality because your mum was like that or your dad was like that. I'm like this because my mum's like this. I'm like this because my dad's like this. And I challenge that because I'm becoming more conscious and more aware and I'm doing a lot of meditation and I'm recognizing that there's power that is so untapped. So I want to just touch on the idea of reprograming or rebuilding neural pathways because we can absolutely change who we are. I believe that. Is that something you agree with?

Yeah, I do, I think. I mean, as you're bringing this up, I'm like, I was going to put this in my book and then I took it out. Maybe I should put it back in because it is really, really valuable.

Probably a lot of people would be familiar with like, fear conditioning and things like that. Right. And also pleasure as well. So when we're a child, very, very impressionable, especially in our first five years and our parents, whether they are good parents, whether they're great parents, whether they're terrible parents, they are like gods to us when we're kids because we rely on them for. So as a result, we sort of learn very quickly, like, how to survive based on the immediate environment around us. What's going to get us food, what's going to. You know, and this doesn't happen consciously. I mean, this is stuff that is happening at a subconscious level. We have this part of our brain called the amygdala. And you're probably familiar with this den, but basically the amygdala responsible, in simple terms, for fear memory. But what can happen is we actually don't necessarily remember the actual memories because all the amygdala is interested in is, like, at a very basic level, is, like, the survival. So say, for instance, that in our early childhood, we learned that, like, we get praise and we get reward and great things happen when we do well in maths. Right. Just as an example. And then, you know, we get really, really bad. Like, you know, we get punished, or we get, you know, food taken off us, or we get, you know, deprived in some way as a child, even from things like recognition, which is super, super important.

When we do. When we talk about how much we love music, just, like, again, like, really simple. I'm not saying this is true. What. What that can sort of tell us. And there's all these sort of subconscious cues and, like, you know, maybe the same thing happens with teachers and all that kind of stuff. By the. The time we're 18 and we're making decisions about our career, we're like, I should be an engineer, because, like, I just feel like I was made to be an engineer and, like, music and stuff, and I don't want to do that. Who wants to be a musician? Like, and. And so we don't realize that that decision, which can inform the rest of how our life plays out in a major way, is actually largely to do with just what. What people told us. The immediate feedback we had with, like, a few people around us. Right.

I think what's really exciting now is that we're in this connected world where we can meet people that are in our tribe, even if they're in a completely different part of the world. Right. And I think it's helpful because instead of just sitting in that bubble, so many more of us now are choosing to step outside of that and really look at and question, who am I really? And, like, is everything that I learned, right? And let me actually question that. And maybe the fact that I feel fearful whenever I look at a piano isn't to do with the piano actually being inherently bad. Maybe it's to do with something that happened to me or my experiences growing up, you know, so. And I know I'm using a very, very basic example, but this is happening in so many different ways, and it's so important that we look at what. What we've been conditioned to believe, because what will happen? So go back to your neural pathway question is like, there's another really, really great book. Sorry, I know I keep recommending Books.

I love it. Like, hey, let more books.

Sorry, what were you gonna say? Are you gonna say something?

Yeah, no, just. I'm a huge fan of books. I never used to read books when I was younger because I thought. And it ties into this. Like, I love the concentration books. I'm no good at reading. I was never any good at English. It's like, I was never any good at English, but I've written three books. It's like, you know, you can. You can change how your brain works.

So.

Yeah, no, I just love what you're saying.

Totally. Right. It's like. And that's actually. That's probably a better example than what I gave, like, of. Yeah, I'm just not some. That's what we start to do. We start to identify with these false beliefs that are based on fear patterns and memory, you know, so with the rewiring aspect. So there's a concept called neuroplasticity, and it was sort of first discussed in, like, the 1970s, and it was, like, seen as, like, this really, like, what? The brain's like plastic. What are you talking about? Neuroplasticity is basically just the concept that your brain can change and rewire and sort of reprogram itself right, over time. And people thought this was impossible. They thought like, no, the brain is the brain. It doesn't change once it's there, you know, because if you cut a part of the brain out, we know that all this dysfunction starts to happen. So it can't be neuroplastic, it can't be plastic, because then that wouldn't happen. Right. So that was. I called the localization theory. But anyway, there are some amazing things the brain can do. It's really, really incredible. And what basically we're trying to do when we're unlearning these things that, you know, these patterns that have been set up because our brain is a pattern recognition machine is where we're starting to change what's happening with the wiring. So there's this phrase that's like, neurons that fire together, wire together. So if every time you do well in maths, there's all these neural pathways that are saying, reward, reward, reward, then that's like, that's programmed right into you maths. Reward. Great.

So I mean, people don't necessarily want to not be good at maths, but we look at, okay, well, what's. Why are those things connected together? And can we unlearn that? So with things like post traumatic stress disorder, with things like that, that's what we're looking at is like, okay, we need to basically unlink what's happening with this firing and this firing together, you know, so to use like an example from war, like people hear a noise that sounds like a bomb and they've been in a war situation that's going to trigger all this other stuff biochemically for them, which is a really, really hard way to live. So basically what you're doing is saying, okay, let's.

Expose you to this sound in a safe way. And so your brain can learn that these two things don't have to fire together anymore. The fear and the sound don't have to fire together anymore. We can just have the sound. So that's an example of sort of like the neural pathways no longer being linked.

Does that kind of.

Yeah, and I guess, you know, because we're sort of running out of time, I guess. What to tie this back into a video business owner, it's like if you're going to a client meeting or, or let's say you're anxious about picking up the phone and calling a client because you think, I'll just, I'll send them an email. Instead, what you're saying is that you can train yourself to remove the fear or the sense of rejection. And I think the reason we don't want to pick up phone and call clients because we're worried about being rejected. So we think, well, I'll send an email and then I've kind of ticked off that task. I've got in touch with the client. But in actual fact, with neuroplasticity and the right coaching and the right training and I guess the right practice, you can change the way you perceive that task so that it doesn't become a fear based decision. But one of actually, if I call this client, there's a very good chance they're actually looking for a solution just now. And I'll call them and I'll be of service.

Yeah, exactly. That's a really great way of putting it for business, I think. Like, I feel like you're really good with the illustrative examples. I should just have gone, here's the theory, what's the.

Hopefully this will make for a good podcast because it's working well. Lauren, we are running out of things. I like to keep these nice and short because generally speaking, our audience is on the move when they're not in lockdown and so. But I would love to have you back on the show to go deeper into this idea of neuroplasticity and all the other topics we can go into. Where can people find out a bit more about you? And you mentioned the book and where they can find out more about the work that you do.

Yeah. So probably the best way to just find out about me is go to LinkedIn and look up my name, which is Lauren Kress with a K. I have a personal website, which is laurencrest.com and I've also got a business website, which is thechangemakerscollective.com.

That'S awesome. I've absolutely loved our brief chat, but thank you so much. And would you come on the show again maybe in the future?

Absolutely. No, I'd love to. This is a blast. And I love the questions you asked as well. This is a lot of fun. Great way to start a Friday morning.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Hey, guys, thanks for watching. I hope you got a huge amount of value from that episode. If you're looking for additional support or resources to support your business journey, then head over to Denlenny.com where you can get a whole heap of other resources, free downloads, and access all the other episodes in this series. Be sure to subscribe and I'll see you next time.