A “juicy” Tip For Building a Rabid YouTube Audience - EP# 091 with Phoebe & Matt (part 2)

Hey, guys.

Dan here with another episode of the.

How to Scale a video Business podcast.

This week, we are joining Phoebe and Matt again from Little Grey Box. Our conversation was going so well last week. We spoke all about, you know, how they got started, the kind of content produced and what's involved in that. But I kind of twisted their arm to come back and actually talk a bit deeper about the realities of choosing that lifestyle from the outside looking in, you could say they're living the dream job.

You know, they're.

They're traveling the world, often in business class, and they're making a lot of amazing content. But the brutal reality is it's a very, very demanding job and one that has downsides. And so I wanted to dig into the business side of how it is they generate revenue and how much work they do to get that channel into.

A place where people are willing to.

Spend money with them. And I think the results will really surprise you. It's quite sobering, actually, how long they spent producing content, over a thousand blogs, hundreds of hours of video before anyone.

Paid them a cent.

And so I wanted to share this story because I think it's very, very empowering. It's very, very inspiring. And it just goes to show, if you're passionate about doing this kind of work, something that you're very passionate about, a niche that you're really interested in, these guys have kind of done it in the travel space, which is very, very competitive. And I think you'll find that their approach is. Is one of sheer grit and determination. And they are the loveliest couple. And I was fortunate enough to spend time in their home with them. It sounds like we're sitting in the rainforest because that's where they live. And I think you'll just find this a really interesting, interesting episode. And, you know, if you do enjoy it, please subscribe. Please leave a comment. Please give us a rating on itunes. It really helps us get the word out there and enjoy the show.

Hey, guys, just before we get started in this week's episode, I wanted to make sure you were aware of some new resources we've got for you over@denleny.com that's-e n l e n n I e.com including I'm giving away a free copy of my book, A Filmmaker's Guide to Budgets and Quotes that increase profit margin on Productions by 20 to 30% instantly. So if you want to grab a copy of that book, it's on the website now, and we're adding new resources.

To the resources tab.

All the time to help you scale your business faster. Thanks so much and enjoy the show.

Guys.

I'm so glad you came back to.

Do another show with us because we were just about to get stuck into something I think really important, which, Phoebe, you just mentioned, which was when you started on this journey with Little Grey Box, you didn't realize you were starting a business, did you?

Absolutely not. I was on a life spiritual journey, just trying to find happiness in my life. I was completely unaware that I was starting a small business and I was just oblivious to the fact that the majority of small businesses fail. That didn't even occur to me. I've only realized in the last couple of months somebody, I was watching something that said, oh, something like 60% of all small Australian businesses fail in the first three years.

And then there was another fact followed up, like.

You won't turn a profit until five years or you won't give yourself a salary until after five years. And I was like, wait a minute, that is. Me and my small business made it. I made it past the three years and I actually put some money in my savings account in these last couple of months. I'm actually doing this thing. And it was a really liberating feeling.

I think it was a really valid.

Point that, you know, I think there's the media and maybe even social media to some degree paints a picture of success being easy. And I think that, you know, when you start a business, you do think. We started in 2009, middle of the GFC, made DVDs about cameras, sold a.

Few hundred thousand dollars worth.

I thought, this is easy. Would be millionaires in no time. And then every year it changes.

And tell me what have been some.

Of the milestones in your own business in terms of how you can track your progress? You know, when you look back and go, wow, actually we've come a long way. And now we mentioned in the last episode that that that nagging voice, internal voice is absolutely horrible to you. That's. That's your own ego, I suppose, can often make you focus on the negatives and the things that don't work rather than the things that do. But seeing as we're here now, when you think back on your sort of year one through to year five or year six journey, what have been some of the key milestones where you've gone? Actually, you know what, babe? We're actually, we're doing this.

Yeah, we do have those sobering moments occasionally, don't we? I think it's when we book a really big job With a great client. Like I mentioned Singapore Airlines earlier. That was a moment for us. Like, they want to work with us. Wow, we must really be making some good content here. Or like I said, we put some money back in our savings account for the first time in about four or five years, and it wasn't much. It was like a hundred dollars or one thousand dollars. And it felt so good to put some money in there. We're like, okay, we're starting to do this thing. We're turning a profit here. And even the way that we engage with clients now, and I realize, wow, I'm talking to them in a completely different level. I have this confidence in me. I know how to run this as a business, and I didn't know how to do that in year one. Yeah.

I guess some of the other milestones might be like follower numbers as well. I mean, they're important for us in a sense. They do give you more opportunities as you hit certain levels. So we have had a couple of those. Maybe on YouTube.

Yeah, definitely. When we got to 10,000 subscribers, that was a really good feeling. That was really exciting, for sure. And we have those numbers in our head, those goals in our head. 100,000 YouTube subscribers is the next big one for us. And our cat Peach is saying, hello.

Hey, Pinch.

Oh, Peach.

Peach. Sorry, Peach.

So talk to me about that.

Building an audience.

How does that work?

Well, I think what we struggled with a lot was not. And I just want to start with this because it's something I wish I had done better. The first and biggest problem we had was not knowing what we were doing, like, what we wanted to achieve, what we were offering people. I just started as a passion, like I said, and I wish if I could go back in time, I would have a plan, and I would definitely like to have a clear idea of what I was doing because it took a lot of. We wasted a lot of those first few years with trial and error.

Yeah. And on YouTube, it's all about building the community. And we. In the last couple of years, we realized we need to start writing back to comments and stuff and fostering that community on YouTube. And that's helped a lot build that.

That was on me. I was very afraid to let people in. I still am. And that's a big challenge I'm still going through now is being more of my authentic self and, like, letting that wall come down. Because it's hard when people comment and they're like, oh, you know, just another dumb blonde. And they say that stuff. I'm like, oh, no, that's really hurtful. But if I put up a wall, then the person they're calling dumb, it's not me, I am blonde. So I can't refute that.

So let's go there a bit more with the realities of what is an.

Average week look like you for, from a kind of social engagement perspective.

Because I want to delve into. Just learn more about how much work. Because I know how much work I'm.

Doing on fairly badly on most of my social media channels to maintain them. My main focus is LinkedIn and I post stuff on Facebook. But.

Building an audience is an awful lot of work. Talk to me about some of the things you do on a regular basis. And what do you think are the core.

Milestones, if you like, of things.

That you have to do consistently to keep that traction?

Yeah, I mean, it's different for Every platform. Obviously. YouTube's our number one platform. It's the one we care about. It's the one we've got the most followers on. It's the one we spend the most time on, definitely. But we have to hit a. Every week we have to get a video out on the same day at the same time. That's part of the algorithm that we've been told that you need to match in order to get growth. So we've been doing that and we've seen good growth by doing that. The other social networks, we probably don't spend as much time on them at all. Facebook is falling away for us. Instagram is definitely something we enjoy doing just as a passion thing anyway. And then Twitter and the other ones, we just don't bother with them. So you've got to choose the ones that fit who you think is where your audience is. And we think YouTube and Instagram and to a lesser extent, Facebook is our sort of.

And I would say that I believe our engagement rates on these platforms reflect our strengths back at us. So we don't do that well on Instagram. We just don't. We've been on that platform for years and I only have 13,000 followers. But on YouTube, it's going a lot quicker. So that tells us that's where we really shine. Matt's a great videographer. I like being in front of the camera. That just works. And people like it because I think they can tell that we like doing it. So that seems to be growing more. So that's where we focus more of our energy then, during that week. But our workflows look very different during the week. I'm Happy to share mine and then rhat can share his. So my work just. I guess I'll use the last week as an example. The last week I've had a lot of freelance writing that I've been doing. So I've had to kind of fit that in as well. So a lot of days have been dedicated to that. But then there's writing blog posts for the website, spending a lot of time editing images. I've got some client deliverables they need to pre approve written blog posts that we've got coming up. They need to pre approve scripts for videos that we've got coming up. We've got social media posts we have to do. We're filming the next two days a local Brisbane guide. So I've got to script all those videos, I've got to plan those shoots. Where are we going to be? When are we going to be there? I've got to pick an outfit. It's the whole thing.

Yeah, you do a lot of work. My work's very different. I spend a lot of time editing, probably more than anything. I wouldn't say I'm a fast editor. So I do take a lot of time and I have to learn stuff as I go. Finding music takes a lot of time, which a lot of people probably can relate to. And then I do all the other back end stuff like the business bookkeeping. I also do my own freelance work which can take a lot of time as well. And I do a lot of the social posts on Facebook and the platforms that aren't as big for us. I still keep them going and keep posting to those and interacting on those as well.

I think the thing that worked really well for us is that we sat down and defined our job roles. What are your strengths? What's something you don't like doing? I hate accounting and things like that. Matt's like, well, I don't mind doing it. I'm good at it, so I'll do that. And I'm like, well, I'm really good with dealing with clients so I'll be kind of front of house in that way. So it's about playing to your strengths and sharing the workload.

I remember when my wife and I were working together on F Stop Academy. It was very challenging. One of the things we overcame with some support was having, you know, staying in your lane because when you're, when your partner's in life, it's a very different relationship when your partners in business and I think we mentioned last week and Sam and I have actually talked about this recently. So we moved from the UK to Sydney in 2015 and had four years in Sydney and moved up to the Noosa, the Sunshine coast, back May last year. And we've just now really rooted ourselves, which is a weird thing to say in Australia, as in roots in the ground, not the other kind of rooting.

You guys are open. Okay, that kind of podcast.

But we feel very grounded and we feel very fulfilled. But one of the things we've done is we've. We've started saying we're going to stop working at 12 o' clock on a Friday and we have a date day or a date night. And last weekend we went to the cinema, then we went for lunch and then we went to the beach. And that's really helped us because it's so easy to kind of always be working. Do you guys find that as a challenge for you? We don't need to talk about roosting, but obviously. But we can in terms of that balance between work and not work. Because when you love what you do, you're kind of always working.

But how do you balance that?

Do you balance it actually say, right, we're going to take some time out and go and do something else now?

I think also when you work for yourself, all the money you make and all of your success depends on you. So if you switch off, nothing's going to happen. There's nobody else to pick up the slack. So you kind of find yourself in this cycle where you work, work, work. Matt and I really struggled with this last year. We did not take time off. We both got to the end of the year and were catatonic. We were both burnt out, exhausted, done, and had to force ourselves to take two weeks off. And that's a difficult thing to do when you have a YouTube schedule that, you know, this algorithm depends on you posting all the time. So what's going to happen if we take two weeks off? We told everyone we're taking two weeks off. Our audience were fine with it and nothing bad happened. The world didn't end, we were rested, we were refreshed, and when we came back, our content was better. So this year we're trying to build that in more and take better care of ourselves mentally. We've decided we're going to try and take. Is it a week off?

Yeah. Take breaks twice a year and then.

A big break at the end of the year, like two or three weeks at the end of the year. Because otherwise we just. I mean, I think I've been working for the last Three weeks straight without taking a day off. I have to. No one else is going to do my work for me, but I will keep doing that to myself. So I have to make myself stop.

Yeah, it's a big problem for me. I work, I'll spend time in the office. I'll just spend way too many hours on the computer to the point where my eyes are starting to get bad and they've never been bad, so I'm really bad at that. But I find there's always something to do, so I enjoy working. I just need to find a balance, which I'm not great at.

I think it's really important for anybody who works at home. Interesting what your thoughts are on this, to have a routine. You know, for me it's. I wake up early every single morning, I do a workout right away, that's my time, come inside, have my coffee, have my breakfast, get to work by nine. And you have to have that schedule, that routine, otherwise you start to get crazy and you're just eating cereal and you've been in your pajamas for five days and you smell like you need to for your mental health.

It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because I agree with you, you have to have routine. And Sam and I have definitely built a routine around.

I'll usually wake up at six.

We sleep in a bedroom with a window that has a blind up, so we wake up with the sun. And being in Queensland, you know, that's a pretty beautiful thing to do. There's palm trees in the garden and it sounds terrible, doesn't it? But we're kind of. We get to experience the nature at its best.

I will generally go out for a ride on my bike or Sam will go for a run. And then we've got two dogs, so we'll take the dogs for a walk and that's our kind of routine. And actually having the dogs, they need to be walked before 8 in the morning and they need to be walked by five at night because if they don't, they kick off. And so they're kind of our mechanism. But you're right, I mean, yesterday I just kind of forgot to eat.

Yeah, you do.

Because I was in real, I was in flow.

I remember looking at the clock at one point and it was 15, 15. And when I looked at the clock the hour later, it was 16, 16.

And I was like, wow, Mo.

I said, you're in flow. And I really was. But it's not healthy because you, you kind of, you burn out. And is that something you Touched on that. You know, how do you manage that? Do you manage it?

The first couple of years are very hard for me. I went through some bouts where, you know, depression would kind of sneak up on me. And then all of a sudden, I would feel like I'm unable to get out of bed today. I can't wash my face. I don't want to eat. I'm just gonna sit at my desk and work. And Matt would kind of pick me up out of those times and be like, okay, just ride it out. You'll be okay, kid. And those first few years, like I said, I just wasn't taking care of myself, and it was not working. And it's not good for me. It's not good for my business. It's not good for clients. It's not a fun time, and it's not why I quit my job. So now we have those kind of systems in place to have a routine. Eat well, eat a vegetable, take that time out. Like you're saying, pets are such an important part of it. If I sit, if I'm really stressed about a client job, you go, whoa, take 15 minutes and play with the cats. And then I'm laughing, and I'm thinking about how silly they are. And that. That kind of thing is incredible. It's really helpful.

Yeah.

I had some really rough times last year with some client jobs and with my own jobs, which is where I felt like a pretender. I didn't feel like I had the skills to do this creative block, and I'd go for long drives to try and clear my mind, and it would work. Sometimes it wouldn't, sometimes it wouldn't. So it's all about exercise routine. Yes. Reading the right food, pets. Yeah, I agree.

You know, one of our most popular downloads this year has been how to cope with anxiety in business. My wife Sam, interviewed me about it because she's obviously experienced it with me.

And it's such a. I'm so glad.

You brought that up, because I don't think it's talked about enough. Like, the stress of running your own business. Like, I couldn't imagine doing anything else. And I certainly am unemployable, so I have no choice but to do it. But I think the stress comes. Comes from the expectations I put on myself.

And aren't we just so hard on.

Ourselves when we don't hit what was probably an unrealistic goal in the first place?

Absolutely.

I've sent jobs off to clients after spending, like, having a meltdown trying to do them. And I Thought that it was a terrible job. And I've sent it off and they've come back and said, we love it. No changes whatsoever. And it blows you away because you just think, what. At what point did you think that was bad work? And why did you have so much trouble with it?

Another aspect of it for me, you know, talking about that anxiety, definitely juggling clients, but being in front of the camera, there's a lot of stress for me. And I think, do I look good enough? You know, I'm in my 30s now. Am I going to be redundant in a couple of years because I'm getting too old as a woman? You know, am I not thin enough? Am I not pretty enough? Is my hair not right? And I would put a lot of pressure on myself to look perfect, remember the script, get a perfect take and have everything be seamless. And that's no way to live. And it still creeps up on me all the time. I have to check myself and go, no, you're worthy, you're good. You can do this. It's okay. As long you have to enjoy it or it's not worth it.

It's a lot of pressure to put on yourself, isn't it? And I think that's something that we all suffer from as business owners or entrepreneurs. I think as an entrepreneur you will meet who doesn't put themselves under that kind of pressure. But why do you think we do that? Why is it, Matt, you'll spend 17 hours on an edit?

Yeah. Sometimes you get too close to it, and if you just sleep on it. So I guess it comes down to time. Sometimes I wish I had more time to spend a few hours doing an edit, leave it alone, come back to it the next day and look at it again. Because often I'll come back and go, that's amazing. What was I worried about? I spent ages playing with something, trying to get it right, but it was already right. So it comes down to just planning and time, I think.

Do you think autonomy plays a role in it? Because I can't help you with the video editing, obviously. So there's no me coming in saying, oh, my goodness, like, no boss or coworker coming in going, yeah, we're doing this together. And you're killing this bit, and I'm killing this bit, and it's coming together. It's like you by yourself, and you're in your head that whole 17 hours.

You spend a lot of time by yourself, and you're not bouncing anything off anybody. You're not getting any feedback and once.

That grain of sand, that grain of an idea gets into your head that you're a hack. And this sucks. Yeah, it's a spiral.

Happens all the time. Happens all the time.

I think that's a disease, if you like. And I call it a disease because it's dis ease with trying to build something, trying to create something. And I forget who said this, but you know, when you decide to start a business, you are prepared to do the things that most of you peers would not be willing to do, which is work long hours for no pay.

With the slim hope that you'll nail it. And in 15 years time it'll all have fallen into place and you'll be able to do what no one else can do.

Now, I don't think that's the reason.

I do it, but it is a great way to, I guess philosophize if you like or kind of containerize that notion. Because I think what's really interesting is we have some incredible friends who don't work in business.

We have very few friends who don't.

Work in business because I find it's actually very difficult to have conversations about the reality. And the thing that always stands to mind is a couple of friends who, who work in corporate jobs. And when Sam and I are like working on a Sunday, which is like every Sunday because we kind of choose to work on a Sunday, they're like, oh, oh, you're working on a Sunday. And this friend was upset seeing us recently and she's like, oh, I'm working till 5 o'.

Clock.

I just got to keep on the email till 5 o'. Clock. And she was like checking her email five minutes. And then 5 o' clock came, you went away. And that was such an alien concept to me because I'm like, well, you're quite a senior manager in this travel company and after five o' clock you just don't answer anything unless there's a disaster. And that's just so alien to me. And I don't think I'm right and they're wrong. I just think I just. I'm always kind of always on the job.

Yeah, absolutely. Always on the job, always thinking about things, always looking for new ideas, always kind of connecting with somebody. If an email comes through from a client and it's, you know, five in the morning or whatever, stop what you're doing and answer them.

Yeah, I mean, Phoebe will get emails late and sometimes at nighttime and she can't sleep because she's worried about. She has to write back or she's worried about what that means now, so she'll start thinking about it. So you pretty much switched on the whole time.

Because a big part of it for me, I think, I think if you can get back to that client quickly and write back a very.

Not hold them up and get back to them with a thorough, quick, well thought out email, it shows that you're responsive, you're reliable, you're going to be there for them. And that's a really important first impression in that relationship.

I think also just to kind of put some context around this, because we haven't spoken about this, but I think what's important to understand for people listening to this is Phoebe and myself are based in Australia and we're in the.

Same time zone, Brisbane.

But if you've got a client in Singapore or in the us, their working week might be, you know, if it's, what's it, 18 hours difference between here and LA, isn't there? So if someone's finishing work at 5 o' clock on a Friday in LA, that's like Saturday evening in. In fact, I had a call with someone last week. I had a call at 7 o' clock on Saturday morning because it was 4 in the afternoon in Texas.

And I guess what you got to.

Remember is that the person making the.

Call or making the outreach, they just.

Assume you're on their time zone. So when you're in a kind of.

Business that deals with people around the.

World, you've kind of got to stretch yourself. And I've got this app on my computer which is like all the different time zones because it's just so confusing and I don't think people necessarily understand how demanding that is on you, psychologically and emotionally.

Yeah. And you can't afford to psych off. You can't afford to send back a shitty email and be upset with them. You have to be on your best behavior the whole time. You can't afford to get short. It all depends on you.

Yeah. And that applies to when you're traveling. You go through time zones and then you land and you've got an hour before you have to start shooting a video, which can be incredibly hard for somebody like Phoebe to be in front of the camera. A lot easier for me behind the camera.

And when the client's there alongside you, kind of not watching what you do, but, you know, helping you and supporting you. You can't afford to be rude to them. You have to be really professional and polite no matter how you feel. You just have to suck it up.

Yeah, it's a lot of pressure, isn't it? And I know we put all this pressure on ourselves, but I think it's very real. You know, running a business is exceptionally hard. And even though the world's become a smaller place through the Internet and the ability to communicate, we have video message. You know, the clients, wherever they are, still kind of have the same demands on budget and expectations for outcomes. So it might sound like we're being negative, and I hope we don't mean to be. It's just the reality. But let's flip this and go, well, tell me about the upsides. Tell me about the things that. Because, you know, we wouldn't do these things if it wasn't. You know, you live in a beautiful home in the middle of a rainforest, and for many people, this would be a dream to achieve, and you're doing it now. And I know it's been your childhood home, but you're about to move to another place and get some land. Talk to me about the upsides of running your own business and especially doing what you do.

There are just so many. I mean, the sense of fulfillment and. I know. I know we were talking about it being hard, and like I said, I would not have it any other way. I don't want this to be easy. I want it to be this difficult. It's fantastic. Kind of shows you what you're made of and you're tough. And when something good happens to us, I earned it because I stayed up late. I worked hard. I've been doing this for five or six years. I'm not an imposter. I earned every single thing that I've received. And that was something I struggled with when I was younger because I was often. I'm a very hard worker, and I would be. That would be. What's the word? Like, it's not. It wasn't encouraged because it made other people look bad. So now I work as hard as I want, and it's all benefit. But we get to, you know, obviously the travel is a huge part of it, but more than that, we get to do experiences or have experiences that we wouldn't have if we traveled off our own back. Because clients go the extra mile to dig up these extra special things that we would never hear about otherwise. And those are really the moments where I find myself, you know, tucked in the back of a Japanese seafood market in the middle of nowhere, eating the world's best ramen and just feeling like, this is life. This is why I do this, for this bowl of ramen. Because this is a moment I would never have had otherwise. It's an incredible feeling.

And the people, too. I mean, we meet some incredible people, whether they're tour guides or just random people that you meet. You would never have met if I was still working my office job in Brisbane. You know, I do my one holiday a year.

Yeah.

Now I get to meet amazing people every month on each trip that we take. It's just, it's insane. And we have complete control as well over what we produce generally. We can go wherever we want, we can do what we like. It's. It's just, it's awesome.

And it's little things like working from home and, you know, not having to deal with another crappy team meeting. You know, things like that. Your mental health, yes, it has its, its strains and its challenges, but it's so much better. It's. If I'm exhausted today, I can work in my pajamas every day and not have to put on makeup and I can eat the cereal if I want to eat the cereal today. Like, you have so much freedom and control over your life. It's a, it's a wonderful feeling. It's empowering.

Yeah, that's right.

So what would you say to, you know, someone working in the video space who, who loves the idea of doing something like this? What advice would you give them to prepare them for the journey?

I would say it's going to be very, very challenging and not to set any kind of expectations in terms of years, because that's what I did and it was a mistake. I thought if I do this and I give it my all, I'm great and I'll be okay in three years because I'm great and everything will be great and it's going to be wonderful and I'll have achieved all my dreams. It's going to take far longer than I ever thought it would. So predetermining when you think you'll achieve things by years isn't a good idea because it'll happen when it's going to happen and when it's meant to happen. So be realistic with your expectations and save up a lot of money. Get ready to eat a lot of food from Aldi like we do.

Where do you go from here? Do you, you know, do you want to continue doing 17 hour days or do you, do you have a. Do you have a kind of like a hope and a goal where you can pick up enough work, where you can maybe hire an editor and start outsourcing?

Yeah, that's something we've spoke about. We explored that a bit recently, but I found it quite hard to let go. I thought it would be more work for me to try and get somebody to do what I need them to do. So for us, I think it's just a learning thing or a letting go thing.

Absolutely. And we need to earn enough income to pay somebody a wage. As an editor. We don't earn any kind of money to get any help from anyone. We have to do it ourselves. For sure. I would say long term. You know, when this started, I was very adamant that I wanted to get into hosting a television program and that this would be a leverage point into that. Now that's changed because the more people I talk to, they say there's a loss of control with that. And I think I love what I do and what I want instead is to be able to earn enough money to live comfortably doing this and also have enough leverage from our YouTube channel to be able to take, pick and choose the jobs I want to take. Because, as you know, the travel is exhausting, it's grueling. So I would like to get to the point where we could have one really great paying job a month. We go somewhere that we choose to go out of all of these job offers sent to us, we go there, we film, we get four weeks worth of content. We come back, we're able to rest, balance out our mental health and get some really great quality content up for people. That's really the goal.

My advice, I guess, would be it's all about relationships. I think it's all about who you know and how well you treat them. And if they think you did a great job. And I think that sort of was mirrored back to me from the videographer we worked with on the Japan trip.

Adam.

Yeah, he was great with the relationships. And he sort of said to me that whatever jobs get offered to him, even if he can't do them, he takes them and he uses friends of his or people with similar skills to get that job done so that he never says no to work. And his relationships are great. And that was a really good thing to learn from him for sure.

And a big thing that I focus on is that I want to outwork somebody else so that if it comes down to it and a brand is considering us or something someone else, they'll choose us because we're more professional. They're going to get more out of us than they would out of someone else. And we're just going to work harder and they like us.

Yeah.

So you just got to outwork everybody else.

Guys, this has been really insightful.

And just knocking my microphone off the table there because I've got a mosquito on my arm.

Any.

Any closing thoughts before we wrap up?

Anything you feel we haven't covered or that you think might be of value to the audience?

I just think that for a long time, like I said, I thought that I couldn't do this. This wasn't something that could happen to me. I didn't have the skills. It's heavily saturated industry. Everybody wants this. It's a dream job. But you have to start and you have to be consistent and you just have to give it your all. And it's going to be hard. It's going to be the hardest thing you've ever done, but do it because it is worth it. It's the hardest thing you'll do, and it is the best thing you'll ever do.

Nothing more for me.

Well, guys, where can people find out more about you and see some of your content?

You can find us online at www.littlegreybox.net. little Gray Box on YouTube. And then if you search for Little Gray Box on Facebook and Instagram, you'll find us there.

I have one final question. Little Gray Box. Where did that come from?

Oh, my goodness. Like I said, we started Little Gray Box on the floor of our London flat very late one evening. And Matt was like, okay, we're setting up this WordPress site. Let's do this. It needs a name. And I was like, little Gray Box. They're just three words I like. And there it is. It just happened.

I think it's great. It's very memorable.

People say that I was a bit. I was a bit like, oh, I should change it to something more travelly. But people say, no, it's different. It's not Wanderlust Passport.

Yeah.

This kind of stuff abroad, it's something different.

Yeah. Beautiful, guys. Thank you so very much.

Thanks, Dan.

Thank you.

You've been listening to the how to Scale a video Business podcast with me, your host, Dan Lenny. If you're a video business owner who's hit a ceiling and we benefit from mentorship, support and coaching, then check out how you can work with me over@denleny.com. don't forget to subscribe and rate the show over on itunes. And we'd really appreciate you taking a few minutes to leave a review. And don't forget to share if you feel you've gotten value from this episode and you think it would be useful for other filmmakers to, you know. Then please do me a massive favor and share it on social media and in groups that you might be in. See you next week.