A quickie crash course in sales psychology. EP #220 - Den Lennie

G', day, guys. It's Dan here with the how to Scale a Video Business podcast. This is episode 220.

And today I want to talk about a topic that I think is important to be addressed. And it's going to be a bit of a no bullshit sort of a podcast today because I think this is an important topic and it's, it's going to resonate with some of you and others it's going to, it's going to trigger. So, so be aware of that because if it's triggering you, it's likely something you need to address yourself. And you know, I don't believe in coaching and fluffing around and sugar coating things that I think are critically important for you to survive and thrive as a video business owner. And the topic is this. It's like not every project you do commercially is going to stimulate you creatively. And I remember having a call chat with Charlie Valor, who's been on the show many times, and he has a long pedigree in business, and he said, oh man, you know your market, like, they put a lot of emphasis on every project being creatively stimulating. And he said, it's so fascinating because that's not how business works. And I think it comes down to an insecurity, possibly, or also this, this thing that filmmakers cling on to, which is, I'm so passionate about what I do, you know, I just want to share the passion with you. And like, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but in perspective, you've got to try and rein it in because a client is not going to pay you to make the film you want. They're going to pay you to make the film they want. And if they feel at any stage of the process that you're getting carried away with creative, it will literally freak them out. And I think it's something that a lot of filmmakers get wrong. They go into a client meeting thinking that what the client wants to hear is all of your creative ideas about how you can make this film stunning and beautiful and amazing and have these aerials and have all this stuff. You know, they certainly probably want degree of professionalism and a degree of polish. But what I've discovered is most clients don't want all singing, all dancing with all the toys. That's generally speaking, the filmmaker pushing their agenda. And if you're not careful, you can put clients off by going too hard on the creative. You know, there's something called the hierarchy of business needs. And this came from a guy called Seth Godden he. Now, if you've not come across Seth Godden, he wrote a book called Purple Cow, you should definitely read it. Seth is a marketing expert, has written multiple books on different sort of trends in marketing and a lot of the psychology behind marketing. And he talks about something called the hierarchy of business needs. And I think this is really important. So if you take nothing away from this podcast, if you're still listening, it's this. Okay. Many, many filmmakers think that clients hire them because they want to make a video, because they want to make more money. And that that can be true, but it's not always the number one priority. And so depending on who you're talking to.

They have different criteria that they will be measuring.

When, when they, when they hire.

Someone to create a filming project for them. So in no particular order, although I think this is probably number one, is they want to avoid risk. You know, if you're dealing with a corporate company, perhaps you're dealing with a marketing manager or a PR manager or someone head of comms. They are, they are answerable to somebody else. They have to justify the budget, they have to justify why they spent the money the way they did, and they have to justify the outcome and measure it with KPI as being key performance indicators. So everyone is measured by a set of criteria and probably by somebody else. So number one, I'd say in the hierarchy of business needs is people want to avoid risk. They don't want to work with a company who's going to get all creative on them and miss the point. And, and this is something that I hear repeatedly when having conversations with people, you know, all over the place, is that they feel like the client's hiring them because of their creative genius and because of the work that they do. It's not necessarily number one. The other thing they want to do is they want to avoid hassle. Like, nobody wants to hire a production company who are going to be unreliable, not communicate, take too long to get back to them, and don't outline what to expect throughout the process.

Now, number three is gaining praise. So if you are a junior marketing manager and you've been given this project by a senior marketing manager, there's a chance that they're testing the team in the corporate environment to see if you can handle the program and handle the project. So someone who's hiring you might be looking to gain praise from their superiors. And so how the film comes out, it may not be how it looks that counts. It might be how smoothly the project went, how well the contributors commented on the way the crew showed up and how they treated them and how efficient they were on set, how organized they were and how systemized they were in the entire process. So it became easy. The fourth one is gaining power. Maybe someone in a department of a larger company wants to produce something exceptional so that they can advance their career further. Their position within a company. Perhaps they want to, you know.

Draw attention to their skills in a particular way. And that might be throwing the, throwing the kind of the kitchen sink at a project and making it look stunning. And please don't mistake me saying this, it's not that the visuals don't count and it's not that they're not important. It's not that you shouldn't it when the situation is right, make something look stunning and make it look amazing, you should do anyway, regardless of the project. But it's about tempering the level of production that you throw at something.

The fifth thing is having fun. They may put having fun on set as a high value. Um, you know, maybe they're you know, sitting in a cubicle 300 and sort of, you know, 40 days of a year and for 10 days of the year they get to go and do cool projects. And some of them involve going to photo shoots, some involve going on set. And look, making films is fun, right? You know, we have fun on set, we have a great light hearted environment. People, you're making something, you're creating something, It's a break from the norm for people. And then maybe number six is making a profit and maybe the marketing department isn't even bothered about making a profit. Maybe it's not something that they are measured on. And so understanding the hierarchy of business needs, when you put that into context of you wanting to make this all singing, all dancing, creative film, you can see where there might be a rub. You've got to make sure you understand.

Who your client is and what they need. You know, I was just reviewing some of our training inside the VBA yesterday and we were talking about in one of the trainings around creating a client avatar, you know, how different people behave differently. And you know, we had one example of Beth who is a 29 year old single who lives with two housemates in a share house in the suburbs of London. She's the marketing lead for a large healthcare device manufacturer. She earns 35,000 a year, does not want a car, she loves yoga, she's vegan, she hates that the planet's being polluted and is passionate about advocacy for getting rid of single use plastics and Wants to live as green as possible. She'd like to meet a partner, but she's quite fussy and has a list of ideal tick boxes for that ideal partner. She'd like kids one day and is quietly worried that she's getting old and running out of time. She loves her job and has a great boss. She's not looking to run the department, but she'd like a pay rise and she'd like a bit more responsibility in her role. So that's. That's a customer avatar. Okay, that's. That's someone who's fictitious, but I would imagine when we did this training with the guys in the group, they all went, oh, I know, I know. Someone just like Beth. You know, I work with someone like that in Marcoms. Compare that to Bill, who's 62, who runs his own engineering firm making parts for aircraft and yacht vacuum toilets. He's happily married to 38 years for Vic with De Vic, his wife, who also works in the business and as the CFO. They have three kids. Oliver's 32, married, and they have a young son, Levi, who's 18 months old. And Bill loves being a granddad. Rich is 27 and is overseas working in finance. Hayley is 23 and is working for a fashion brand and marketing. Bill likes to play golf every Saturday without fail. Then he enjoys a few beers in the clubhouse afterwards before heading home for a good dried ribeye and a nice bottle of shiraz from his extensive wine cellar. He drives a jaggier f pace and likes to get a new car every two or three years. Now think about those two examples and think about the hierarchy of business needs. Avoid risk, avoid hassle. Gain praise, gain power. Have fun, Make a profit. Now, Bill will be wanting to avoid risk and certainly wanting to avoid hassle. He's not interested in gaining praise or power because he's already the CEO. He probably isn't that bothered about having fun because it's just something he just feels maybe he'll try. But making a profit is important. Important to him. And so if you were approaching Bill, you might tailor your message to say, hey, you know, we've been doing this for X number of years. We specialize in the manufacturing field. In fact, we've done projects for this company, this company and this company. So what you're doing is you're giving some social proof to the fact that you are organized. You know what you're doing. You understand the industry. When we work with you, you know, we're in, we're out in a day. We're very, very systemized and we communicate all the details of what needs to happen because engineers love detail. And what we found is when we've done these projects with these other clients, they've seen an increase in sales and 30%. And so that would be something that would be relevant to Bill. But let's now talk about Beth.

Beth has a different set of criteria. Remember, Beth is 29, single lives with two housemates. If we apply the same hierarchy of business needs to Beth, then she definitely wants to avoid risk. Doesn't want to get into trouble from her boss by spending money on something that doesn't work or gets too creative or blows out and doesn't work. And it's just a little side note, if you get too creative on visuals and concept, sometimes you lose touch with the message and the objective. She definitely wants to avoid hassle, but gaining praise and gaining power, probably more important praise more than power, because she doesn't have anyone that works beneath her. But praise for a job well done might entice her to ask for a pay rise. It might allow her to get some more responsibility with that. Having fun will definitely be on that agenda. She'll be somebody who wants to get out of the cubicle, be on set. And let's be honest, if she's single and looking for a partner, there's a. There's a psychology that says, well, if I go on set, I might meet someone. And so we've got to understand.

At a deep psychological level what's driving clients, what kind of lives they're living and how are you likely to be able to show up in a way that complements their needs. And so this is quite a deep subject. And we've got. We've got three or four quite, you know, intensive topics on this in the marketing training inside the vba. It's one of the eight growth accelerators. And everything's driven by emotion. Okay? People make decisions based on emotion and they back up their decision with logic. So are the needs of Bill and Beth the same? And can you talk to them in the same way and expect to get the same desired outcome? Because Bill, it's. He has experience, right? He's 62 and he's spending his own money and he can't be fooled by whiz bang. He probably doesn't care about drones and gimbals and all that rubbish. Like, he doesn't care. He's like, if I'm going to make a video, I'm a bit reluctant. I just want it to be able to sell more of my stuff. He wants a tangible outcome and he doesn't suffer fools. So you can't pull the will over his eyes and try and sell him into some fancy idea. And he's jovial, but he's very serious about business. If you try and pull the wool over his eyes, he'll sniff you out in a heartbeat. But Beth, on the other hand, is spending part of her department's annual budget, and that's as part of a wider campaign for a new product launch. So video is just part of that. So it's a different energy around that business decision. She's only done two video campaigns previously and is a little overwhelmed by our current workload and deadlines. She's worried that she'll drop the ball and her boss will think less of her. So if you're dealing with Beth, you need to give her massive amounts of reassurance that you're going to be there and support her to achieve her outcomes. And it'll be no hassle, you'll deliver it on time, she'll get more than she pays for and she'll look good in front of her boss. That is an absolutely critical piece of psychology. As a business owner in video production, you want to become her sort of secret weapon. When she gives you a project, you run with it and you make her look good.

She's very efficient, but she's nervous about the amount of money she's spending on this compared to a print campaign. So she's got anxieties around costs. So what you have to do is reassure her that the reason this money is being spent in this way is to get this exceptional outcome. And as a salesperson, you don't back down and go, oh, we'll just do it cheaper.

You explain to her where the money is going and why it's such a good investment. And you also reassure her that it may be more than she's used to spending, and it's definitely more compared to a print campaign. That's because there are more people involved, but her boss will understand that. And if your budget is delivering exceptional outcomes, it's where you have to build the courage and the conviction to share with her that this is a good move and you've got her back. And that can be done with, you know, lots of social proof and example films. And this is why, if you get too creative, it could freak her out and she'll just panic. So what you want to do is make sure you can show an example of a film you've made before, which you're going to mirror or emulate and you can say, look, we'll add some polish here and here, but we're not going to go crazy. We're not going to allow the budget to blow out, and we're going to make sure, you know, if you understand, one of the questions you can ask right from the outset is what is done look like for you? What is the most important thing this film needs to achieve and how does that look? Describe that to me. So you make sure you keep that as your focus right from the outset and that will serve you in really good, steady. So some other considerations are, you know, is there anyone else in this person's life who will influence.

The decision and what is that person going to think and how is that going to influence the decision of the person you're dealing with? So, for example.

Bill is happy to give things a go, but he's also conscious that his daughter works in marketing. And she's been saying for a while, look, you know, you should give this a go, because he might. He might be missing something. And as a business owner, he's like, he wants to keep the edge. Beth is most keen to impress her boss and make a nice film that she can show off to her friends on Facebook because there's a bit of, you know, a bit of social positioning there. She wants to have fun on the shoot, she enjoys the creative process and, you know, as I said, there might be some nice people to meet on the shoot. And she's. She's sociable and wants to kind of expand her friendship.

So who's the other person that's going to influence the decision? Well, for Bill, it's his wife and daughter. What's important to them? Well, that he's not spending too much. What are their perspectives? Well, that he's not getting carried away with the budget because he likes to spend money on quality. Remember, he drives a Jaguar F Pace, he goes to the golf club, he's got an extensive wine collection. What does Bill's wife and daughter want to avoid? Well, you know, they want to maintain profit in the company because they want to exit the business in three years, so they don't want to overspend. So there's a balance between how much they spend and how much they think it's going to bring in. And if you have examples of other projects where that's been very successful, you know, you made a video for a client, they implemented it and their sales went up, then that would be evidence you would show to Bill that he would Then share with his wife. His daughter knows a bit about marketing in a different area, so is wary he'll get ripped off or spend money on something that won't work. So you've got his daughter and his wife in his ear, and you can have an amazing conversation with Bill about what you're going to achieve. But they might influence his decision to cut back on the budget or reduce what they're doing, or he'll have questions. So understanding what's going on for Bill, you have to be a bit of a chameleon when it comes to dealing with clients on a business level. In video. Beth, on the other hand, it's her boss that she's really kind of conscious of. So what's important to her boss? Well, that she's going to hit all the key points in the brief. What are her boss's perspectives? Well, that Beth is talented but lacks experience handling a big production. And what does she want to avoid? Well, she wants to avoid Beth blowing the budget or missing the objective. And what did he want to achieve? Well, that the video fits into the whole campaign and is flawless and doesn't have, like, too much production. That kind of blows things up and makes it look out of place with the print campaign or something else. So these are questions you have to ask and understand.

And what do you think that her boss is thinking about Beth? Well, her boss trusts Beth and is kind of testing her to see how she handles the bigger project as she's considering promoting her. So, as you can see, there are two different perspectives here, and those perspectives are very important to understand, because if you don't understand who you're talking to, then, you know, it's. It's really challenging to be able to communicate with them and to bring this back to where we started. You know, people get too caught up in the creativity. They think that they're being hired because of the creative genius. It's part of the reason, but it's not ultimately what they care about. You know, if you go to.

An amazing restaurant, Gordon Ramsay, okay, you go to Michelin star restaurant and you get a table and you know, you've heard it's got a couple of Michelin stars, and everyone's raved about how amazing this place is. And it's an expensive night out, but you sit down and, you know, you know, Gordon Rams is not cooking in the kitchen, but his name's on the door. So your expectations, you come for this. You don't expect a chef to come out and start swearing at you. If you don't like the food. But equally, if something isn't quite right, do you care that Gordon Ramsay's name's on the door? Do you care that he's got Michelin stars? Or do you care that you haven't had a great experience? Now, I had lunch at Gordon Ramsay restaurant many, many years ago, and it was incredible. It was absolutely stunning, flawless from start to finish.

But if something doesn't go quite right, you're going to judge that experience. You don't care how many books Gordon Ramsay's got or how many TV shows he's got. You're sitting at a table, and if your experience is less than amazing, you're going to have a problem. So it's just tempering the creativity. Like, ultimately, if you take the restaurant example, you're not really caring how creative Gordon Ramsay can be in the kitchen, because he's not actually in the kitchen. You care about your experience and did it meet with your expectations. If it does, you leave happy. You tell people and you want to do it again. If something falls short, if you were expecting a flaming, you know.

Some flambe, beautiful dish and it didn't come out like that, you're going to leave a bit disappointed. And so really, it's important to manage people's expectations, but also hold a little bit back, you know, and I think just to kind of. To kind of address this desire for creative people to always want to make art every time they go out. You know, I've probably shot three and a half thousand interviews in my career, and not every interview was great fun. Not every interview had an amazing location. In fact, far and few between. But I used to challenge myself and say, well, my job here is to turn rubbish into something beautiful. And, you know, the classic is the kind of the boring boardroom where you can't turn off the overhead lights, you can't do anything about the room. It's a plain white wall. And as a lighting cameraman, I had to create some shape and dimension and depth and contrast with light and shadow and color and texture and perspective. And so my job was to create something from nothing. And I think if you adopt the idea of creating something from nothing, you'll find that all your creative desires will be met. And I think one of the challenges that modern video production companies have is that there are so many toys and tools and gadgets and gizmos that can have the camera fly through there or, you know, be on a gimbal and make everything look. And sometimes it's just overused and so Just be, just re. Reframe how you measure your own creative desires on a commercial project. And, and I think what you'll find is you'll get much more enjoyment. And ultimately I say to my guys all the time if you want to do a big creative project and Chris, one of my clients has done this, is like he runs a very successful video production company in Sydney doing really big high end work, but about 20% of his time he spends on creative projects. And so he diverts funds and profits from his commercial work into creating creative stuff. And that is a smart way to do it. If you systemize your business and you systemize yourself out of working on the tools, you can start to develop creative projects and have the bread and butter stuff bringing in the bread and then profits can be diverted into making commercial projects for your own self. So it's just about like reframing how you see those things. So if you would like to discuss this further and you want some more perspectives, then jump on a call with me and I'll just leave you with this to consider. Ask yourself this. Has owning your own video business been everything you dreamed it would be when you first got started? It might be hard to admit, but think about whether you're genuinely achieving everything you set out to when you made that decision to grab the kitchen camera and go it alone. Are you really working less? Are you really earning more? And are you really in control? The chances are you're bloody good at what you do, but you're having to work like a dog, 70 plus hours a week. Whether it's filming, editing, marketing, or any of the other jobs that come with being the big boss of your own video company. When you're managing projects, constantly searching out for new clients and worrying about cash flow, it's easy to to lose sight of the bigger picture or make real progress. Let's face it, that stress is the last thing you need when you're trying to run a profitable company that supports you and the people you care about. Truth is, a business that provides financial, professional and personal freedom really is achievable. But maybe you've got that nagging feeling that you're overworked, lacking stability, and struggling to get to where you really want to be right now. It could be that you just don't know how to make a positive change on your own. So I created the Video Business Accelerator coaching programs to really supercharge your video business. With these unique coaching programs, you'll learn all the tools you need to get complete confidence in the success of your video business, you can take the first step on your journey to a successful business that doesn't control your life. Let me show you how. Head over to Denleny.com and click on Accelerator.